Mind of a Diety

[Ama]

<p>I've never delved into diety lore extensively so I have to consult the gurus here.  What are the missions/objectives of the dieties in the past? Hopefully I can get a better understanding of the gods and it may lead to some answers of their objectives now or their future objectives.  Any diety info will be helpful from A-Z god. </p>

[Cusashorn]

What do you mean Dieties of the past? All the gods have thier own objectives to promote thier own elements to the world. Rallos Zek, Innoruuk, and Solusek Ro are the only ones to ever really get actively involved with messing with the lives of the mortals in the past. What is it you're looking for?

[Nocturnal Aby]

<p>In general, the deities are either not involved at all in the dealings of Norrath (most of the Elemental deities), or more often, are only concerned with their influence, and the perpetuation of the race they've created.  In that vein, you'll see some, like Rallos Zek, who have consistantly used his races to perpetuate his influence (war), and in doing so, tried to take over the world.  Solusek Ro is sort of a different case, in that he doesn't have any creations, only followers. yet has played a prominant role several times in Norrath's history.</p><p>Although somewhat cliche, I have to point out that these are supposed to be great, powerful beings with vast intellects.  Trying to wrap our mortal minds around their thought processes is a bit presumptious of us.</p><p>I suppose you could ultimately say that each deity strives to nurture and exapand their influence in Norrath as much as possible, and they usually do so through their mortal followers.  That said, some deities also seem content with the standings of their followers, and don't seem to be actively trying to take over the world..</p><p>I know this is all fairly vague and redundant, but we honestly don't know the the inner workings of the minds of the gods.  Usually all we get from them is very small snippets of what must be a master plan.</p>

[Ama]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>What do you mean Dieties of the past? All the gods have thier own objectives to promote thier own elements to the world. Rallos Zek, Innoruuk, and Solusek Ro are the only ones to ever really get actively involved with messing with the lives of the mortals in the past. What is it you're looking for?</blockquote><p>Basically when I say dieties of the past I mean all of them not just the 9 that we have now.  Then with those dieties past objectives including the ones we have now we can maybe see what's happening.  I'm looking for lore behind them concerning what their motives were and what it is they wanted to do.  </p><p>"I suppose you could ultimately say that each deity strives to nurture and exapand their influence in Norrath as much as possible, and they usually do so through their mortal followers.  That said, some deities also seem content with the standings of their followers, and don't seem to be actively trying to take over the world.."</p><p>Inny I would say fits the very deffinition of expanding their influence since he corrupted the High Elves into Dark Elves.  Then you had the Fae corrupted into the Arasai.  </p><p>As for the last part for some reason it reminds me of Quellious where she maybe content with those that choose to follow her.  Same could be said with Tunare, but i'm unsure of that one. </p>

[teddyboy4]

<cite>Amana wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>What do you mean Dieties of the past? All the gods have thier own objectives to promote thier own elements to the world. Rallos Zek, Innoruuk, and Solusek Ro are the only ones to ever really get actively involved with messing with the lives of the mortals in the past. What is it you're looking for?</blockquote><p>Basically when I say dieties of the past I mean all of them not just the 9 that we have now.  Then with those dieties past objectives including the ones we have now we can maybe see what's happening.  I'm looking for lore behind them concerning what their motives were and what it is they wanted to do.  </p><p>"I suppose you could ultimately say that each deity strives to nurture and exapand their influence in Norrath as much as possible, and they usually do so through their mortal followers.  That said, some deities also seem content with the standings of their followers, and don't seem to be actively trying to take over the world.."</p><p>Inny I would say fits the very deffinition of expanding their influence since he corrupted the High Elves into Dark Elves.  Then you had the Fae corrupted into the Arasai.  </p><p>As for the last part for some reason it reminds me of Quellious where she maybe content with those that choose to follow her.  Same could be said with Tunare, but i'm unsure of that one. </p></blockquote>The deities that make up the Wheel of Influence are really only concerned with spreading their influence, thereby gaining more followers and thus power. While they may have their own little plots here and there, in the end everything they do serves their own ends as a means to gain more influence amongst the population of Norrath. That is really the only objective they have, or have ever had.

[Ama]

<cite>Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amana wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>What do you mean Dieties of the past? All the gods have thier own objectives to promote thier own elements to the world. Rallos Zek, Innoruuk, and Solusek Ro are the only ones to ever really get actively involved with messing with the lives of the mortals in the past. What is it you're looking for?</blockquote><p>Basically when I say dieties of the past I mean all of them not just the 9 that we have now.  Then with those dieties past objectives including the ones we have now we can maybe see what's happening.  I'm looking for lore behind them concerning what their motives were and what it is they wanted to do.  </p><p>"I suppose you could ultimately say that each deity strives to nurture and exapand their influence in Norrath as much as possible, and they usually do so through their mortal followers.  That said, some deities also seem content with the standings of their followers, and don't seem to be actively trying to take over the world.."</p><p>Inny I would say fits the very deffinition of expanding their influence since he corrupted the High Elves into Dark Elves.  Then you had the Fae corrupted into the Arasai.  </p><p>As for the last part for some reason it reminds me of Quellious where she maybe content with those that choose to follow her.  Same could be said with Tunare, but i'm unsure of that one. </p></blockquote>The deities that make up the Wheel of Influence are really only concerned with spreading their influence, thereby gaining more followers and thus power. While they may have their own little plots here and there, in the end everything they do serves their own ends as a means to gain more influence amongst the population of Norrath. That is really the only objective they have, or have ever had.</blockquote><p>Well even then there must be more to them than just gathering followers.  Solusek Ro is a one god in mind to me that is a bit tricky.  Don't know where I got it, but it seems he wants to cover Norrath in flames not content with just Lavastorm.  </p><p>Brell seems to be rather content having the whole underground of Norrath as his playground with many followers. </p>

[Cusashorn]

Well in many cases, we just don't know how the gods think. Solusek Ro is a megalomaniac, but He generally doesn't act unless he can take advantage of another god's doing, such as cooperating with Rallos Zek in an attempt to destroy the surface of Norrath by sending a war machine into the past, who would then unleash the Dresolisk Crystal to scorch Norrath.

[Mirander_1]

Sol Ro's personality always struck me as somewhat interesting, as he always comes off as a very touchy fellow.  I mean, every major act he's taken has been in reaction to some slight, real or imagined.  Look at it like this:-The gods don't invite Solusek to take part in creating races, and he needs to vent.  Result: destruction of the Eldar Forest, exodus of the elves.-Solusek thinks mortals are getting a little to uppity, and decides to teach them a lesson.  Result: tries to destroy the world with the Dresolisk.-Solusek gets tired of having his manifestation destroyed, and thinks it's time to give mortals a spanking.  Result: the 2nd Rallosian War

[Wilde_Night]

Innoruuk likes to spite the other gods.  But I think he ultimately wants to destroy Norrath - again just to spite the other gods.

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Aeviel@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Innoruuk likes to spite the other gods.  But I think he ultimately wants to destroy Norrath - again just to spite the other gods.</blockquote>Nah. He doesn't want to destroy Norrath. Heck, He even ended up ripping the soul of Lanys T'Vyl into cosmic shreds because SHE wanted to destroy Norrath.

[Gukkor2]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeviel@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Innoruuk likes to spite the other gods.  But I think he ultimately wants to destroy Norrath - again just to spite the other gods.</blockquote>Nah. He doesn't want to destroy Norrath. Heck, He even ended up ripping the soul of Lanys T'Vyl into cosmic shreds because SHE wanted to destroy Norrath.</blockquote> When did this happen?

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Gukkor2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeviel@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Innoruuk likes to spite the other gods.  But I think he ultimately wants to destroy Norrath - again just to spite the other gods.</blockquote>Nah. He doesn't want to destroy Norrath. Heck, He even ended up ripping the soul of Lanys T'Vyl into cosmic shreds because SHE wanted to destroy Norrath.</blockquote>When did this happen?</blockquote><p>During the summer of 2001. They held a ton of live events that lasted throughout the year, including the Plagues of Karana, Cazic Thule corrupting Lesser Faydark (and Equestrial), and others.</p><p>One of the main storylines was the birth of Lanys T'Vyl in 2000. Firiona Vie ended up losing her lifeguide staff because of what happened on Kunark. Lanys T'Vyl wanted to get her hands on it so she could destroy Norrath. I don't mean just destroy all life on norrath. I mean BOOM!</p><p>The Armies of Neriak wisened up to her plot and killed her in an epic battle in the Rathe Mountains. They took her body back to Neriak and performed a ritual to summon Innoruuk. He was pretty darn angry at what her own daughter had tried. He tore her soul out of her body, ripped it to shreds, and basicly transmuted it into planar nothingness in his own Plane of Hate.</p><p>Unfortunately, after EQ2 came out, they decided to break that lore and bring her back to life. Good thing she's dead in this universe. </p>

[Ama]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gukkor2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeviel@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Innoruuk likes to spite the other gods.  But I think he ultimately wants to destroy Norrath - again just to spite the other gods.</blockquote>Nah. He doesn't want to destroy Norrath. Heck, He even ended up ripping the soul of Lanys T'Vyl into cosmic shreds because SHE wanted to destroy Norrath.</blockquote>When did this happen?</blockquote><p>He tore her soul out of her body, ripped it to shreds, and<b> basicly transmuted it into planar nothingness</b> in his own Plane of Hate.</p></blockquote>whoa whoa whoa, planar nothingness? Hmm.....starting to think I got another theory about the shadowedmen there.

[Gukkor2]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gukkor2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeviel@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Innoruuk likes to spite the other gods.  But I think he ultimately wants to destroy Norrath - again just to spite the other gods.</blockquote>Nah. He doesn't want to destroy Norrath. Heck, He even ended up ripping the soul of Lanys T'Vyl into cosmic shreds because SHE wanted to destroy Norrath.</blockquote>When did this happen?</blockquote><p>During the summer of 2001. They held a ton of live events that lasted throughout the year, including the Plagues of Karana, Cazic Thule corrupting Lesser Faydark (and Equestrial), and others.</p><p>One of the main storylines was the birth of Lanys T'Vyl in 2000. Firiona Vie ended up losing her lifeguide staff because of what happened on Kunark. Lanys T'Vyl wanted to get her hands on it so she could destroy Norrath. I don't mean just destroy all life on norrath. I mean BOOM!</p><p>The Armies of Neriak wisened up to her plot and killed her in an epic battle in the Rathe Mountains. They took her body back to Neriak and performed a ritual to summon Innoruuk. He was pretty darn angry at what her own daughter had tried. He tore her soul out of her body, ripped it to shreds, and basicly transmuted it into planar nothingness in his own Plane of Hate.</p><p>Unfortunately, after EQ2 came out, they decided to break that lore and bring her back to life. Good thing she's dead in this universe. </p></blockquote>Okay, so in EQ1 she's the goddess of envy, and in EQ2 she's just dead, yes?  Just wanna make sure I have it straight.

[Cusashorn]

I always thought she was the demi-god of Strife.

[Zin`Car]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>I always thought she was the demi-god of Strife.</blockquote><p>"Lanys T`Vyl, The Lady of Envy</p><p>The daughter of Innoruuk and possibly the youngest of all Norrath's deities, Lanys was apotheosized by her father to <u><i>DEMI</i></u>-god status following her role in the Battle of Bloody Kithikor, wherein a force of Teir`Dal nearly destroyed Rivervale and Highkeep.  A Cult of Envy made entirely of dark elves maintains a temple fortress in the Rathe Mountains dedicated to the Lady of Envy.  Despite her frenzy in battle, Lanys more often practices calculated cruelty..."</p><p>This exerpt was taken from the "EverQuest: Game Master's Guide".  How does it reflect to ingame happenings...  i'd say for the most part, the P&P information is dead on.  Aside from many... many typos (to the point of you'd think it was the <b>rough</b> draft of a nineth grader's midterm english paper instead of a professional literary publication) throughout ALL of the publications, the books are accurate.</p><p>as for the Goddess of Strife, i'd have to say that would most likely describe Saryn (who is the Goddess of Pain and Torment... which i believe ultimately can be summed up as "strife&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[IrishWonder]

<p>I think that the motives of most of the Gods are ultimately to advance their sphere of influence. Some of the Gods realize the necessity for balance, and others do not. This can be seen in how those gods work to promote their sphere.</p><p>In a more physical sense, the original Pantheon's motif was to counter Veeshan's influence on Norrath by depositing their own races on the planet.</p>

[Ama]

<cite>IrishWonder wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I think that the motives of most of the Gods are ultimately to advance their sphere of influence. Some of the Gods realize the necessity for balance, and others do not. This can be seen in how those gods work to promote their sphere.</p><p>In a more physical sense, the original Pantheon's motif was to counter Veeshan's influence on Norrath by depositing their own races on the planet.</p></blockquote><p>Well i'm trying to figure out what the god's next moves maybe.  They first punish us and leave us only to return down the road with "Prophets/Heralds" talking about their rebirth or whatnot.  Wonder if the gods made a mistake and they started loosing power when they left Norrath making us mortals believe they were gone for good.  Perhaps they have returned in order to gain strength from the faith of their disciples.  </p><p>Zeb says something is brewing and with Bristlebane we have 9 prophets.  Still don't know if prophets equate to Heralds, but *shrug*.  Course it could be the fact the gods were forced to return because of some inpending doom like zeb says.  </p>

[IrishWonder]

<p>We don't know yet what the Gods' entire plan was, but I don't think they ever planned on staying gone forever. I think that whatever proposal Quellious put forth at the Council required them to leave for a significant time, but not forever. When EQ2 first came out, I was always under the assumption that 2-3 expansions down the road, the Gods were going to be coming back and we'd learn more about why they left, and their whole plan on stopping mortals from raiding their planes.</p><p>As for why they're returning, it could be that the "absence" part of the proposal is over and they are allowed to return as part of that pact. Or, they may be returning earlier due to unforseen circumstances. I'm hoping we learn more about the Pantheon's actions in RoK since nothing concerning them has really been answered since the release of EQ2.</p><p>There was a good cryptic post by Jindrack I think in the lore forums a long time ago. It basically stated that the gods knew exactly what they were doing, and things were being done as planned.</p>

[Ama]

<cite>IrishWonder wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>We don't know yet what the Gods' entire plan was, but I don't think they ever planned on staying gone forever. I think that whatever proposal Quellious put forth at the Council required them to leave for a significant time, but not forever. When EQ2 first came out, I was always under the assumption that 2-3 expansions down the road, the Gods were going to be coming back and we'd learn more about why they left, and their whole plan on stopping mortals from raiding their planes.</p><p>As for why they're returning, it could be that the "absence" part of the proposal is over and they are allowed to return as part of that pact. Or, they may be returning earlier due to unforseen circumstances. I'm hoping we learn more about the Pantheon's actions in RoK since nothing concerning them has really been answered since the release of EQ2.</p><p>There was a good cryptic post by Jindrack I think in the lore forums a long time ago. It basically stated that the gods knew exactly what they were doing, and things were being done as planned.</p></blockquote><p>Unfortuantely I can't find the lore on EQ2, but as said they did come to a joint decision.  Several back door deals looked to be made with each god contending with his/her ally as usual.  </p><p>Course who said gods can be pains leaving us for a bit like a parent putting their child in timeout then coming back when that time is up.  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[IrishWonder]

<cite>Moorgard wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Life is funny. Sometimes things seem to happen by chance. Other times, they happen precisely when they are intended to.</p><p>Take another look at the intro slideshow or the Tome of Destiny. Even after the gods withdrew from Norrath, they managed to set a variety of plans in motion. Little things like a major war, battles between avatars, and such.</p><p>Makes you wonder what other things they had planned before they left. When you think about it, it's kind of like their influence wasn't so absent after all...</p></blockquote><p>That's the quote I was talking about... it was from Moorgard, not Jindrack. The lore you're talking about, Amana, comes straight from the Tome of Destiny:</p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;"><b>1- The Council of the Gods</b> </span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">"There is only one solution: Destroy them all." Rallos Zek's burning eyes moved disdainfully from one god to the next, hoping his harsh edict had convinced more of them to take his side. It had been countless ages since virtually all the gods had gathered together like this, and he did not intend to miss the opportunity to expand his influence. "I maintain that this would be an overreaction," Tunare said, shaking her head. The mortals need our guidance, not our wrath. We should inspire them and strengthen the spirituality within them, not snuff it out." "You mean your precious elves?" Rallos countered. "Did they need your guidance as their greed soiled your plane, murdering your servants in their lust for power and wealth? Attacking the very manifestation of your being as if you were a boar for the slaughter?" She scowled and shook her head. "That is your influence at work, Rallos. It was only when they breached the Planes of Power that you lost the delight you had taken in their growing viciousness." "We all agree that the mortals have gone too far," Brell interjected, sensing the need to interrupt before the argument dragged on further. "But surely the answer isn't to wipe away all our handiwork. After all, it is only a few races that have committed offenses worthy of such action. Perhaps a selective pruning is in order rather than complete annihilation." Solusek Ro shook his head. "I must agree with Rallos on this matter. Wipe them out; it is the only way." "The solution is obvious," interjected Cazic-Thule. "If my influence were allowed to grow, the mortals would not be in a position to challenge us. Fear will keep them in check, as it always should have." Karana scowled. "Preposterous. It has been proven that any one of us alone can be overcome by the mortals. It is underestimating them that has brought us to this place, that has forced us to become allies in action if not in principle. But the solution must be one that we can all agree to." "How can you be so blind?" Rallos growled. "How can you not see that the mortals must be made to pay for their insolence?" "You ignore the honor in their hearts," Mithaniel Marr countered. "They have earned the right to exist, to ascend to greatness." "Greatness?" Innoruuk cackled gleefully. "Leave them to their own devices and they will devour themselves in jealousy and hatred. The solution is not for us to kill them, but to step aside and let them feed upon each other." "We don't have time for that," Solusek Ro asserted. "The demi-planes are already weakened--in fact, some have simply faded from existence, as our powers have grown too thin to sustain them. We must refocus our resources and strike back while we still can." Quellious had listened to the bickering for what seemed like ages. Though time had no meaning for them in this place, she could bear to listen no longer. She spoke softly, yet with a directness that silenced the others. "I propose a compromise," she said, her gaze moving from one god to the next. "It will not be ideal for any of us, and it does not come without risk. But I feel it is the only way to satisfy all our objectives and restore balance between us and the mortals." Bristlebane perked an ear. "Speak, please, for this endless debate is maddening even for me." Quellious continued. "We all agree the mortals have gained too much power, but there are non-destructive ways to correct this. There is also a way for us to regain our strength, though it means removing our influence from this world for a time. But if we all agree--including those who sit upon the greater wheel of Elemental Power--it could save us all." "Speak, Tranquil One," Xegony said, breaking her long silence. "We will listen to your proposal." Quellious nodded. "It is through their unity that the mortals initially became strong. The first thing we must do is to disrupt that unity?" When Quellious had finished, Erollisi Marr nodded. "It would be an acceptable compromise." "Agreed," her twin brother added. "It does not matter to me," Innoruuk grinned, "for I still believe that the mortals will destroy themselves eventually." Brell rubbed his chin thoughtfully. "I will do as you suggest." The Faceless shrugged. "It seems like a waste of time, but I will follow the wishes of this council." Tunare sighed sadly. "I will do what you ask in order to make this work." Fennin Ro spoke for the first time since he had entered the chamber. "The rulers of the Elemental Planes will abide by this decision." One by one the other gods either agreed or said nothing, nodding silently. Quellious eyed Rallos Zek as he whispered something to Solusek Ro. The Prince of Flame shook his head. "We agree," the god of War said at last. "When does it begin?" "In seven mortal days' time, we will act as one. Will that be long enough to do what is needed?" "It will," Solusek Ro said coldly. Tunare nodded with reluctance. "Then it is agreed," the Tribunal spoke in a single voice. "This council stands adjourned." The gods began to leave the chambers, but Quellious lingered. She noticed as Rallos approached Cazic-Thule and began to whisper something to him, and watched as Solusek Ro did the same to Brell. Tunare stood next to her. "Is this really the only way?" "I believe it is," Quellious responded softly. "But I think we need to remain watchful, as not everyone may honor the intent of this pact." Karana approached the two goddesses. "I have some trepidation in this matter, and I'd wager you feel the same." "I do," replied Quellious. "But I have another proposal to share with the two of you to ensure our interests are preserved." As the three gods left the council chamber together, Rallos Zek eyed them loathingly. He muttered to himself. "So, Quellious, you have your allies and I have mine. But your weakness will be your downfall. Let the endgame begin."</span></p>

[Ama]

<cite>IrishWonder wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Moorgard wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Life is funny. Sometimes things seem to happen by chance. Other times, they happen precisely when they are intended to.</p><p>Take another look at the intro slideshow or the Tome of Destiny. Even after the gods withdrew from Norrath, they managed to set a variety of plans in motion. Little things like a major war, battles between avatars, and such.</p><p>Makes you wonder what other things they had planned before they left. When you think about it, it's kind of like their influence wasn't so absent after all...</p></blockquote><p>That's the quote I was talking about... it was from Moorgard, not Jindrack. The lore you're talking about, Amana, comes straight from the Tome of Destiny:<span style="color: #00ff00;">As the three gods left the council chamber together, Rallos Zek eyed them loathingly. He muttered to himself. "So, Quellious, you have your allies and I have mine. But your weakness will be your downfall. <b>Let the endgame begin."</b></span></p></blockquote><p>Hmm...maybe this is what Zeb spoke of and it is not a true fateful end to Norrath, but an "EndGame" where it could be battle between diety and diety, gods and goddesses.  </p><p>If that is the case then I wonder what will happen to Norrath if the Dieties decide to battle one another with their avatars. </p>

[Nocturnal Aby]

<p>The problem is, from what we've seen, a full fledged god has never been destroyed.  Even after Rallos lead his creations against the Rathe Council, and they supposedly killed the Rathe Council, the Rathe still lived, and Rallos was confined to his Plane.  As for the death of Lanys, that's a bit sketchy, since I think I recall whispering of her after the GMs went event wild (those were the days!).  The Tunare/Thule event in Lesser Fay was pretty cool.  You can still find Equestrielle in LFay today!  Still as [Removed for Content] as ever, from what I hear, too.</p><p>The problem with trying to guess the motives of the gods, is that we have so very little to go on.  We have never known the entirety of their plans, and until we actually broke into their planes, knew very little about even those (with exceptions to Fear, Hate, Sky, and Mischief, but honestly, who can tell me WHAT was going on in the Plane of Mischief!  Talk about a bad acid trip)  We've never known the minds of the gods.  Only snapshots.  Small windows into a vastness that helps shape our world...</p><p>To try and second guess a god is like watching a three year old trying to figure out what dad does at work all day, only on a scale 10 times bigger.  We're talking about denizens who have the power to shape a dimension (plane) to their very will.</p><p>Personally, I'm just going to wait and see what happens, and do what's best for me with whatever comes along.  Let the gods take care of the gods.  I'll take care of myself.</p>

[DragonMaster2385]

<p>I am not a big lore buff, but I do enjoy reading post like these when I find them.  I love how all the gods are unique with thier contributions in the above post and I would like to see this story continue.  We should get some live events where gods press thier followers to do their bidding (against other gods or followers of other gods maybe).  I know we have the deiety quests, but they don't really delve into the lore of the actual god.  I would love to log in one day, go to my alter of Ro and be offered a quest 'from the voice in my head' while praying.</p><p>Also, I think it would be awesome if there was some kind of indicator somewhere in the world that showed how many followers each god had (%, not numerical).</p>

[Ama]

<cite>Nocturnal Abyss wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The problem is, from what we've seen, a full fledged god has never been destroyed.  Even after Rallos lead his creations against the Rathe Council, and they supposedly killed the Rathe Council, the Rathe still lived, and Rallos was confined to his Plane.  As for the death of Lanys, that's a bit sketchy, since I think I recall whispering of her after the GMs went event wild (those were the days!).  The Tunare/Thule event in Lesser Fay was pretty cool.  You can still find Equestrielle in LFay today!  Still as [Removed for Content] as ever, from what I hear, too.</p><p>The problem with trying to guess the motives of the gods, is that we have so very little to go on.  We have never known the entirety of their plans, and until we actually broke into their planes, knew very little about even those (with exceptions to Fear, Hate, Sky, and Mischief, but honestly, who can tell me WHAT was going on in the Plane of Mischief!  Talk about a bad acid trip)  We've never known the minds of the gods.  Only snapshots.  Small windows into a vastness that helps shape our world...</p><p>To try and second guess a god is like watching a three year old trying to figure out what dad does at work all day, only on a scale 10 times bigger.  We're talking about denizens who have the power to shape a dimension (plane) to their very will.</p><p>Personally, I'm just going to wait and see what happens, and do what's best for me with whatever comes along.  Let the gods take care of the gods.  I'll take care of myself.</p></blockquote><p>That maybe right and with us guessing it could be trying to hit the center of a dart board in the dark from 25ft away.  One of us may get within the center of the target, but no the true center.  </p><p>I'm just wondering what new things RoK will bring with it both draconic wise and diety wise. </p>

[Vyrance]

<cite>Nocturnal Abyss wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The problem is, from what we've seen, a full fledged god has never been destroyed.  Even after Rallos lead his creations against the Rathe Council, and they supposedly killed the Rathe Council, the Rathe still lived, and Rallos was confined to his Plane.  As for the death of Lanys, that's a bit sketchy, since I think I recall whispering of her after the GMs went event wild (those were the days!).  The Tunare/Thule event in Lesser Fay was pretty cool.  You can still find Equestrielle in LFay today!  Still as [Removed for Content] as ever, from what I hear, too.</p><p>The problem with trying to guess the motives of the gods, is that we have so very little to go on.  We have never known the entirety of their plans, and until we actually broke into their planes, knew very little about even those (with exceptions to Fear, Hate, Sky, and Mischief, but honestly, who can tell me WHAT was going on in the Plane of Mischief!  Talk about a bad acid trip)  We've never known the minds of the gods.  Only snapshots.  Small windows into a vastness that helps shape our world...</p><p>To try and second guess a god is like watching a three year old trying to figure out what dad does at work all day, only on a scale 10 times bigger.  We're talking about denizens who have the power to shape a dimension (plane) to their very will.</p><p>Personally, I'm just going to wait and see what happens, and do what's best for me with whatever comes along.  Let the gods take care of the gods.  I'll take care of myself.</p></blockquote>when Rallos and his minions invaded the Plane of Earth, they didn't kill the entire Rathe Council.  they were able to kill one of them, and I believe there were originally 13 councilmen.  but now there are only 12.  also, i believe it was at that point, when they managed to destroy one of the Councilmen, that the rest of the Pantheon took notice.  they then acted as one to subdue Rallos and imprison him, and curse all his creations.

[MerlinTKD]

<cite>IrishWonder wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Moorgard wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Life is funny. Sometimes things seem to happen by chance. Other times, they happen precisely when they are intended to.</p><p>Take another look at the intro slideshow or the Tome of Destiny. Even after the gods withdrew from Norrath, they managed to set a variety of plans in motion. Little things like a major war, battles between avatars, and such.</p><p>Makes you wonder what other things they had planned before they left. When you think about it, it's kind of like their influence wasn't so absent after all...</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">Quellious had listened to the bickering for what seemed like ages. Though time had no meaning for them in this place, she could bear to listen no longer. She spoke softly, yet with a directness that silenced the others. "I propose a compromise," she said, her gaze moving from one god to the next. "It will not be ideal for any of us, and it does not come without risk. But I feel it is the only way to satisfy all our objectives and restore balance between us and the mortals." Bristlebane perked an ear. "Speak, please, for this endless debate is maddening even for me." Quellious continued. "We all agree the mortals have gained too much power, but there are non-destructive ways to correct this. There is also a way for us to regain our strength, though it means removing our influence from this world for a time. But if we all agree--including those who sit upon the greater wheel of Elemental Power--it could save us all." "Speak, Tranquil One," Xegony said, breaking her long silence. "We will listen to your proposal." Quellious nodded. "It is through their unity that the mortals initially became strong. The first thing we must do is to disrupt that unity?" When Quellious had finished, Erollisi Marr nodded. "It would be an acceptable compromise." "Agreed," her twin brother added. "It does not matter to me," Innoruuk grinned, "for I still believe that the mortals will destroy themselves eventually." Brell rubbed his chin thoughtfully. "I will do as you suggest." The Faceless shrugged. "It seems like a waste of time, but I will follow the wishes of this council." Tunare sighed sadly. "I will do what you ask in order to make this work." Fennin Ro spoke for the first time since he had entered the chamber. "The rulers of the Elemental Planes will abide by this decision." One by one the other gods either agreed or said nothing, nodding silently. Quellious eyed Rallos Zek as he whispered something to Solusek Ro. The Prince of Flame shook his head. "We agree," the god of War said at last. "When does it begin?" "In seven mortal days' time, we will act as one. Will that be long enough to do what is needed?" "It will," Solusek Ro said coldly. Tunare nodded with reluctance. "Then it is agreed," the Tribunal spoke in a single voice. "This council stands adjourned." The gods began to leave the chambers, but Quellious lingered. She noticed as Rallos approached Cazic-Thule and began to whisper something to him, and watched as Solusek Ro did the same to Brell. Tunare stood next to her. "Is this really the only way?" "I believe it is," Quellious responded softly. "But I think we need to remain watchful, as not everyone may honor the intent of this pact." Karana approached the two goddesses. "I have some trepidation in this matter, and I'd wager you feel the same." "I do," replied Quellious. "But I have another proposal to share with the two of you to ensure our interests are preserved." As the three gods left the council chamber together, Rallos Zek eyed them loathingly. He muttered to himself. "So, Quellious, you have your allies and I have mine. But your weakness will be your downfall. Let the endgame begin."</span></p></blockquote>So... it sounds to me like the gods caused the Shattering, perhaps including the destruction of Luclin, perhaps not. They worked in concert, with Brell and Tunare having particular jobs to do.The Compromise, then? I believe, to Shatter Norrath, to "disrupt that unity" that we mortals had gained, but not to wipe us out entirely - no, leaving enough land and population to give us the chance to survive, to become 'better' in their eyes. A Compromise that Love and Honor could agree to, as well as the forces bent on destruction.In addition, being without the gods, then having them return as they have... each god or goddess is building up power through our worship, are they not? Perhaps not, it's difficult for us to know... but they seem vitally interested in having our attention and our good behavior as well. Even Zek and Ro aren't in objection to followers who obey, only those who defy. Thule wishes them to cower in Fear, Quellious in balanced Harmony, Tunare in the living of Life and Growth... but still, for us to behave in the ways they deem fit. It is possible that this worshipful behavior is what gives them strength, at least the strength to contest against each other.Zeb, perhaps, is the only creature whose interest is solely with we mortals. Some will say even the light yokes of Tunare, Karana, and the Marrs is slavery... others may argue it is our only chance against the power of Zek, Ro, and Thule. Still others will argue for power flowing in the opposite directions, and perhaps still others will embrace the nihilistic destruction of Innorruuk. Time... as always... will tell.

[Nocturnal Aby]

<cite>MerlinTKD wrote:</cite> <blockquote><blockquote>So... it sounds to me like the gods caused the Shattering, perhaps including the destruction of Luclin, perhaps not. They worked in concert, with Brell and Tunare having particular jobs to do.The Compromise, then? I believe, to Shatter Norrath, to "disrupt that unity" that we mortals had gained, but not to wipe us out entirely - no, leaving enough land and population to give us the chance to survive, to become 'better' in their eyes. A Compromise that Love and Honor could agree to, as well as the forces bent on destruction.</blockquote></blockquote><p>Actually, I believe you're refering to the Rending.  The Rending lasted for several centuries, and was charactarized by terrible earthquakes that reshaped the face of Norrath.  The Shattering was the explosion of Luclin, shattering it into pieces, and occurred roughly fifteen years before the launch of EQ2.</p><p>Common mistake, don't worry, and now, back to your regularly scheduled guess work and hypothesizing.</p>

[troodon]

<cite>Vyrance wrote:</cite><blockquote>when Rallos and his minions invaded the Plane of Earth, they didn't kill the entire Rathe Council.  they were able to kill one of them, and I believe there were originally 13 councilmen.  but now there are only 12.  also, i believe it was at that point, when they managed to destroy one of the Councilmen, that the rest of the Pantheon took notice.  they then acted as one to subdue Rallos and imprison him, and curse all his creations.</blockquote>If I remember correctly (it's been a couple of years since I read the book), the Rathe Council (all of it) was brought down to Norrath and executed by the Ogres.  If I have time I'll look it up and post the script tomorrow.

[Cusashorn]

<cite>troodon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vyrance wrote:</cite><blockquote>when Rallos and his minions invaded the Plane of Earth, they didn't kill the entire Rathe Council.  they were able to kill one of them, and I believe there were originally 13 councilmen.  but now there are only 12.  also, i believe it was at that point, when they managed to destroy one of the Councilmen, that the rest of the Pantheon took notice.  they then acted as one to subdue Rallos and imprison him, and curse all his creations.</blockquote>If I remember correctly (it's been a couple of years since I read the book), the Rathe Council (all of it) was brought down to Norrath and executed by the Ogres.  If I have time I'll look it up and post the script tomorrow.</blockquote>Troodon is right. The Rallosian Army executed every last member. Every time a council member was killed, a mountain sprung up on the spot where he died. How do you think the Rathe Mountains formed? After all 13 were killed, the tears of the Gods created Lake Rathetear.

[Vyrance]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>troodon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vyrance wrote:</cite><blockquote>when Rallos and his minions invaded the Plane of Earth, they didn't kill the entire Rathe Council.  they were able to kill one of them, and I believe there were originally 13 councilmen.  but now there are only 12.  also, i believe it was at that point, when they managed to destroy one of the Councilmen, that the rest of the Pantheon took notice.  they then acted as one to subdue Rallos and imprison him, and curse all his creations.</blockquote>If I remember correctly (it's been a couple of years since I read the book), the Rathe Council (all of it) was brought down to Norrath and executed by the Ogres.  If I have time I'll look it up and post the script tomorrow.</blockquote>Troodon is right. The Rallosian Army executed every last member. Every time a council member was killed, a mountain sprung up on the spot where he died. How do you think the Rathe Mountains formed? After all 13 were killed, the tears of the Gods created Lake Rathetear.</blockquote>do you guys have a link?  i always thought only one was killed.  you did say "after all 13 were killed."  then how come there are only 12 now?  or did you mean to say 12?  ive tried looking for a bit online, but it seems impossible to actually find anything that says if they were all killed or otherwise.

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Vyrance wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>troodon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vyrance wrote:</cite><blockquote>when Rallos and his minions invaded the Plane of Earth, they didn't kill the entire Rathe Council.  they were able to kill one of them, and I believe there were originally 13 councilmen.  but now there are only 12.  also, i believe it was at that point, when they managed to destroy one of the Councilmen, that the rest of the Pantheon took notice.  they then acted as one to subdue Rallos and imprison him, and curse all his creations.</blockquote>If I remember correctly (it's been a couple of years since I read the book), the Rathe Council (all of it) was brought down to Norrath and executed by the Ogres.  If I have time I'll look it up and post the script tomorrow.</blockquote>Troodon is right. The Rallosian Army executed every last member. Every time a council member was killed, a mountain sprung up on the spot where he died. How do you think the Rathe Mountains formed? After all 13 were killed, the tears of the Gods created Lake Rathetear.</blockquote>do you guys have a link?  i always thought only one was killed.  you did say "after all 13 were killed."  then how come there are only 12 now?  or did you mean to say 12?  ive tried looking for a bit online, but it seems impossible to actually find anything that says if they were all killed or otherwise.</blockquote>I thought there were 13? it might be 12. Can't remember. eh.. well you know what I mean though. The story is described in the original Everquest player's guide. If someone doesn't in a couple hours, I'll type up the story.

[Nocturnal Aby]

<p>Sorry, totally read over the reply about the 12/13 council members.  The owners manual doesn't specify much in regards to details surrounding the Rallosian invasion of the Plane of Earth, what is stated, is below:</p><p><i><b>By this time, those who are now known as the elder races of Norrath had begun to expand and mature. Villages became cities, and cities became kingdoms. Several of the races became bent on expansion and warfare became part of their developing cultures. And of all the races, it was the Ogres who quickly proved the most interested in battle and plunder, and their empire grew outward from their mountain home until it eventually encompassed a large portion of Tunaria, largest of the known continents. Their knowledge of magic grew as did their greed, until they became weary of only Norrath, and when they learned of other planes and dimensions, invaded the Plane of Earth itself. Rallos Zek watched with pride as his creations challenged the gods of that realm, and when they eventually knew defeat, the Warlord himself led a second invasion. The war that ensued shook the heavens and angered the greater gods. Through their combined might, Rallos Zek was finally thwarted and forced back to his domain, after which a great barrier to the Planes of Power was erected, denying entry to both the lesser gods and mortals as well. And then, in what some view as spite and others justice, the gods cursed the Warlord's creations. Thousands of Ogres were slain and their empire collapsed around them. The Giants were spread from one end of the earth to the other, forced to flee their homes as the gods brought snow and ice to their previously lush lands. And the goblins were also cursed, but no writings remain of their punishment as they no longer keep records of their history (which is perhaps some indication as to the severity of their curse). Thus began the Age of Monuments.</b></i></p><p>It's understandable where the confusion over the number of Rathe Council members, since from the official description of the Rathe, we see this:</p><p><i><b>The Rathe is a council of twelve beings that rule over the Plane of Earth. Each member of the Council maintains an identical presence of grass-green hair and earthen skin with veins of gold and turquoise. The Council is an extension of the plane itself. Thus, if one member is cut down another will shortly rise to take its place. The Council of Earth is the only power of the Planes of Order to have looked down upon the material realm with interest, but remain truly neutral in their dealings with the lesser pantheon</b>.</i></p><p>And, from the Maps of Myrist, we read in the background history of the Rathe Mountains:</p><p><i><b>Ogre legends claim that each of the twelve peaks in this range sprung forth from the very spot where a member of the Rathe Council was slain by the ogre hero, Murdunk, after he invaded the Plane of Earth.</b></i></p><p>Yet from that same document (Maps of Myrist) when talking about the Plane of Earth, we can read:</p><p><i><b>The Rathe are a council of thirteen individuals, but of a single collective consciousness and unified purpose intheir embodiment of the pure element of earth.</b></i></p><p>When doing the Plane of Earth event in PoP, there are twelve councilmen.  In fact, the name of the zone you find them in is entitled, "Ragrax, Stonghold of the Twelve."  Given the evidence we have, and what we know of the Rathe Council, I'd say there has, and will be until the Nameless wipes everything from existance, twelve members of the Rathe Council.  Looking at it from a scholarly perspective, it is much more logical to believe that there are only twelve council members, and the occasion the singular occasion thirteen is mentioned, it was a typo.</p><p>That said, scholars are proved wrong more frequently than they like to admit, and if a higher source can confirm their number to be greater than twelve, than, without dispute, I will gladly accept the correction.</p>

[troodon]

<cite>Vyrance wrote:</cite><blockquote>do you guys have a link?  i always thought only one was killed.  you did say "after all 13 were killed."  then how come there are only 12 now?  or did you mean to say 12?  ive tried looking for a bit online, but it seems impossible to actually find anything that says if they were all killed or otherwise.</blockquote>See <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=384364�" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">this</a> post

[Cusashorn]

<cite>troodon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vyrance wrote:</cite><blockquote>do you guys have a link?  i always thought only one was killed.  you did say "after all 13 were killed."  then how come there are only 12 now?  or did you mean to say 12?  ive tried looking for a bit online, but it seems impossible to actually find anything that says if they were all killed or otherwise.</blockquote>See <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=384364�" target="_blank">this</a> post</blockquote>Why not just post it here?

[Ama]

One thing i'm kinda curious about is why the avatar of valor spawns in CL.  Isn't there a more suitable place for him to spawn or do those ruins still cary some significance?

[Sapphirius]

<p>The Knights of Marr were actually in Commonlands. This is confirmed when you complete the statue collection for the Swords of Destiny timeline. It would only make sense that the Avatar of Valor would appear near the home of his knights... even if that home is no longer there.</p>

[Ama]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The Knights of Marr were actually in Commonlands. This is confirmed when you complete the statue collection for the Swords of Destiny timeline. It would only make sense that the Avatar of Valor would appear near the home of his knights... even if that home is no longer there.</p></blockquote>Still feels like the avatar of valor is kinda taunting the overlord.  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="19" height="15" />

[Sapphirius]

I'd rather he do something in the Overlord's Wheaties myself, but I guess I can't have my cake and eat it too. <winks>

[Ama]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'd rather he do something in the Overlord's Wheaties myself, but I guess I can't have my cake and eat it too. <winks></blockquote><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Well with the return of 3 other gods in RoK things are starting to get interesting.  I'm quite curious how these gods will be aligned with the other gods.  Another thing i'm curious about is if we are going towards a battle of the gods so to speak.  Diety vs Diety God vs God etc...</p>

[Krugs]

Can anyone direct me to a post that explains the deieties dispositions and maybe a brief explanation of some of the miracles and such?

[Gukkor2]

For the record, I still think that Karana being designated a neutral deity is preposterous.

[Ama]

<cite>Gukkor2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>For the record, I still think that Karana being designated a neutral deity is preposterous.</blockquote><p>How so? </p><p>From what i'm seeing him being "Neutral" isn't too preposterous at all.  Actually the only gods I would see as being "Aligned" as good/evil would be Mithaniel Marr and Inny.  Other than that alot of gods have neutral perspectives then deviate to good or bad. </p>

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Amana wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gukkor2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>For the record, I still think that Karana being designated a neutral deity is preposterous.</blockquote><p>How so? </p><p>From what i'm seeing him being "Neutral" isn't too preposterous at all.  Actually the only gods I would see as being "Aligned" as good/evil would be Mithaniel Marr and Inny.  Other than that alot of gods have neutral perspectives then deviate to good or bad. </p></blockquote><p>How the heck do you consider War, Nightmares, Disease, and Torture remotely good or neutral?</p>

[Gukkor2]

<cite>Amana wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gukkor2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>For the record, I still think that Karana being designated a neutral deity is preposterous.</blockquote><p>How so? </p><p>From what i'm seeing him being "Neutral" isn't too preposterous at all.  Actually the only gods I would see as being "Aligned" as good/evil would be Mithaniel Marr and Inny.  Other than that alot of gods have neutral perspectives then deviate to good or bad. </p></blockquote><p>What cusa said.</p><p>Also, storms themselves are a neutral concept, yes, but Karana's personality and attitude have always been benevolent.  The Knights of Thunder were primarily <b>paladins</b>, after all.  Now, there <i>was</i> Agnarr, Karana's evil archrival/twin/clone/alter ego, and he had power over storms as well, so I guess if you were to decide that Agnarr's both a deity and unified with Karana as a dual entity, then there could be justification for considering Karana/Agnarr to be neutral overall, but that's a highly doubtful conclusion to draw.  </p>