Casting rotation

[Tidany77]

<p><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #cc00cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Heyas!</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #cc00cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;"> I'm a lvl 70 warlock, and I'm trying to figure out what the best/most commonly used casting rotation is out there for higher dps.  I'm in a higher lvl raiding guild, and while I parse moderetly high, I dont always.  I was hoping for some help/hints here on what to be expecting dps wise with different setups.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #cc00cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Currently when I'm doing raiding my rotation is as follows</span></p><ul><li><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #cc00cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Netherous Realm</span></li><li><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #cc00cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Corrupt gift</span></li><li><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #cc00cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Dark Infestation</span></li><li><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #cc00cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">War Pyre</span></li><li><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #cc00cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Freehand Sorcery</span></li><li><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #cc00cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Apocalypse</span></li><li><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #cc00cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Vullian Nullification</span></li><li><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #cc00cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Aura of Nihility</span></li><li><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #cc00cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;"> Void Distortion</span></li><li><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #cc00cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">War Pyre</span></li><li><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #cc00cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Scourge of Shadows</span></li><li><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #cc00cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Soul blister</span></li></ul><p><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #cc00cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">With using Chaostorm throughout if on multiple mobs.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #cc00cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Rinse, repeat, and use other spells that are ready.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #cc00cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">I'm fully fabled with 1 piece of EoF fabled gear. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #cc00cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">I've gone AGI 5-4-5-8-1 and WIS 4-7-4-8-1</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #cc00cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">My Warlock tree is down the propagation line, and also with 3 in chaos, 3 in nil absolution and 3 in apocalypse</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small;color: #cc00cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">All masters, other than Dark Infestation</span></p>

[ThadeusOfShibboleth]

<ul><li>Dark Infestation  </li><li>Scourge of Shadows </li><li>Aura of Nihility </li><li>Netherous Realm (the previous spells have a good chance to get the broodlings out before you cast it)</li><li>Corrupt gift </li><li>Freehand Sorcery (I don't have this, I'm STR/AGI, but this is where I would use it)</li><li>Apocalypse </li><li>Void Distortion </li><li>War Pyre </li><li>Scourge of Shadows (recast placement)</li><li>Thwart</li><li>Glacialflame </li><li>Soul blister</li><li>Vullian Nullification (can trigger procs, but only use it if nothing else it up)</li></ul><p>This is my single target casting order.  Works well for me, may or may not for you.  Scourge of Shadows has a high dmg to cast time ratio, cast it on the beginning of the fight but only recast it if the others in the list are still cycling.  I don't like to precast anything, some people argue the point, but that's my opinion.  I can parse 2.2-2.8K on a single target with TC/Synergism/and buffs from a lvl57 troub.  Click my sig if you want to check my gear.  Enjoy! <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </p>

[CelebornXI]

think about it this wayApocalypse, Void Distortion, and Aura of Nihilty are your three highest dps spellsPrecasting Netherous Realm, or Corrupt gift loses you dps, unless it is a fight < 30secs long, and netherous realm still loses outif the mob you are fighting does not aoe, then dark infestation is one of the best to start with as the broodling do large amounts of ae damagesingle target, start with void distort... or auramake sure apoc, void distort, and aura are always being used when they are up, and to use your temp buffs when they are up as wellwhen and only when those three spells are down, go for others, until you get a feel for keeping these "used" its hard to get a rotation for the others down, beyond those its more situational...specials dont help you unless you use them, just be smart about it!(like saving them for a named... they have <1min recast...)

[Tidany77]

<p><b>Thadeus,</b></p><p><b>With your aa line setup,  What is your spell casting order?</b></p><p><b>Just trying to get an idea, if I were to change out my aa lines, what would be an ideal setup <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></b></p><p><b>Thanks to both of you for your quick responses, definatly giving me a new direction to go in <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></b></p>

[ThadeusOfShibboleth]

That is my current casting rotation.  AA setup has no bearing on spell cast-to-damage efficiency.  Obviously I don't have Freehand, nor did I grab Catalyst either <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Have a look at my KoS achievement spec if you like.

[Hellswrath]

Well, AA setup does matter with the hastenings line.  But no warlock should be without that line anyway.

[Groma]

Thad, what does your spell crit chance sit at currently?  I hover at 29% in a raid build, have Trouby, illy, Wizard, Fury in group(no TC usually) and I have lots of trouble parsing that high consistently.  Just curious, anything to help the dps <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Pentarum]

<p>Was parsing 3.4k on singles other night in EH and im still wearing some treasured and legendary. Precast NR and CG on pull. Your MT should be calling his pulls. Get a feel for how long he takes and start timing it so they are both done by the time the mob is there. After that....</p><p>NR, CG. TM, DB, NL, Aura, Cat, Apoc, Nil, Pyre, Scourge, Thwart, SB... cycle as needed and as they come up. Forget waiting anymore for dots to expire cause with the new + spell damage changes you get more dps out of the + bonus damage just for casting it fresh. </p>

[ThadeusOfShibboleth]

<cite>Hellswrath@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, AA setup does matter with the hastenings line.  But no warlock should be without that line anyway.</blockquote>Putting to many points in hastenings is a waste IMO.  I have 3 in War Pyre and 5 in Void Distortion, that's it.  The rest of my points are spent in Prop/Aftershocks.

[ThadeusOfShibboleth]

<cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thad, what does your spell crit chance sit at currently?  I hover at 29% in a raid build, have Trouby, illy, Wizard, Fury in group(no TC usually) and I have lots of trouble parsing that high consistently.  Just curious, anything to help the dps <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></blockquote>30% Crit, 34% with a Second Sight Potion, and still working on getting a few more crit items.  It's tricky though cause I don't want to trade out a proc.  I'm usually in a caster group with one scout or a pally, I get HLink, TC, Synergism, Vim, and the troub just hit lvl58 so he's learning when to cast PotM.  I spiked 12.4K in Lyceum on the Gnorbl pull this weekend....yeah...I died lol.  I still parsed 3.7K for the duration of the fight though!  I ended up with a 2.7K zonewide (not including the Inquisitor I was 2boxing) and I think the raidwide was somewhere around 26K.

[Deathspell]

<cite>Pentarum wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Was parsing 3.4k on singles other night in EH and im still wearing some treasured and legendary. P</p> </blockquote>what parsing prog do you use?Do you use ACT? If so, where do you read 3.4K? Do you need to adjust some settigs within ACT?Because, we do EoF raids as well (succesfully and clean), but i've yet to see anyone parse near or above 3k. I'm confused by these parsing numbers, because I -never- read such results in my ACT parser. Not from anyone.

[Agaxiq]

<cite>Deathspell wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pentarum wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Was parsing 3.4k on singles other night in EH and im still wearing some treasured and legendary. P</p> </blockquote>what parsing prog do you use?Do you use ACT? If so, where do you read 3.4K? Do you need to adjust some settigs within ACT?Because, we do EoF raids as well (succesfully and clean), but i've yet to see anyone parse near or above 3k. I'm confused by these parsing numbers, because I -never- read such results in my ACT parser. Not from anyone.</blockquote>Agreed, I don't think I've ever topped 3k on a single.  Granted there's some better gear out there, I could always use a few more procs, but I don't see a few more proc items adding 800 dps.When I was spec'ed for focused casting I could hit around 2900 or so every handful of fights, but a lot of that depended on what landed, whether or not I got a JCap etc.  While I won't cry foul, I'd love to you see you back that up with a parse.  Also, if its not ExtDPS don't bother, that would be the explanation there.agressiv

[ThadeusOfShibboleth]

I can hit 3K on a single, no troub, but that's if everything is up when I need it to be and almost no resists.  I'm thinking Pentarum is looking and a "dps" number and not the "extdps" number.  That makes a huge difference.  If that was the case I'd probably be over 4K lol

[Pentarum]

changed my mind gona keep my numbers to myself <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Deathspell]

<cite>Pentarum wrote:</cite><blockquote>changed my mind gona keep my numbers to myself <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" /></blockquote>Such high parse numbers... I'm sure it makes most people feel bad coz they don't come even close to it. So that's why I think it very very important to back up such parses with more detail.I'm fully mastered, i know my warlock, but i can say i've never parsed anywhere near 3k in EoF raids.Is my skill? is it the group? is the raid setup? am i reading the parse wrong? I don't know... all i know is i'm in the top5 or top3 and the mobs go down easily, and that while I read scores in my parse program of 1.2k or 1.6k....

[ThadeusOfShibboleth]

<p>The reality is, if your raid force is succeding, or at least content with their progression, and no one is hassling you about your dps, then who gives a hoot if your parsing 1K or 3K.  This game is all about having fun and enjoying time with friends.  It seems a lot of people forget that.</p><p>Pentarum, I wasn't trying to discredit your ability as a warlock.  I actually wanted to rule out the dps v. extdps possibility cause if you are parsing that high, I would like to talk to you and find out how.  I am always looking for ways to better myself.</p>

[Deathspell]

I think we all want to better ourselves. Especially as a class that has been nerfed numerous times, you want to get the best out of it and DPS happens to be our main goal.

[Zombo611]

<p>If you are looking for casting order here are some good quick looks First is DPS Efcy.</p><p>Test: Open a new hotbar and from left to right go down the list Starting with Dark Inf (for broodlings) then Netherlord, aura,...... make this your primary then go pick a fight with a non-heroic even con mob run your fingers down the keyboard 1,2,3,4..... watch what happens</p><p>for more <a href="http://eq2bm.com/guides/Warlock%20Spells.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://eq2bm.com/guides/Warlock%20Spells.htm</a></p><p></p><p>This info will not make you top the parse to do that you need to Proc up... Proc Gear, Proc Gear, Proc Gear.. here is a list.</p><p><a href="http://www.eq2battlemage.com/viewtopic.php?t=15" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.eq2battlemage.com/viewtopic.php?t=15</a></p>

[Killin101]

when in raids i usally parse 1.6k to 2.2k. sometimes i hit over 3k. as for casting order....nethros...corrupt gift...dark infestation...aura...FHS..apoc...small dots....distortion...absolution.....small dots always when they refresh

[Elvitz]

<p>Hmmm... i guess i've got terrible issuse with casting rotation.</p><p>I myself - a warlock in a raidin guild, we still sit in kos content (killed few nameds in eof but didnt go any further) - im geared up in almost complite al-kabor set (the best i can get atm) and got 5 proc items, well id say thats ok for the level of raids i go to regularry.</p><p>But my dps is something im worried about, because its VERY low. I hardly get 700dps, even our berserk gets more, im not sepakin about wizards and sometimes even bard does it better then me (think about it - a buffer gets more dps then a dps class...). So i just wonder... whats wrong with how i do things. Is it caster order? My KoS AA specs are str+sta, and my EoF AA specs are hastelings+explosions.</p><p>I usually do it into the next order:</p><p>Tumultuous Maelstrom, then i go Aura of Nihility, then Corrupt Gift, Netherous Realm, after that i do the two dots (War Pyre and the other one) then i go Catalyst+Apocalypse, Void Distortion and Void Absolution, then i do dark infestation, netheros, then if cds are up i go Void Disortion and Void Absolution again, meantime looking at the dots, when they are down - i cast them anew.</p><p>Im aware that such order is ineffective, and im seeking a way to improve, yet i fail to find a good order yet, im tryin different things by myself ofcourse, yet - dps still remains low. Based off my casting order - what is my mistakes are? I do it as i described above - first debuffs, then buffs, then dots, and then just cycle damage spells and dots. I need your sugestions. Thank you.</p><p> ps - and please, accept my apology for my english - it is not my 1st language.</p>

[Tyrion]

<cite>Elvitz wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Hmmm... i guess i've got terrible issuse with casting rotation.</p><p>I myself - a warlock in a raidin guild, we still sit in kos content (killed few nameds in eof but didnt go any further) - im geared up in almost complite al-kabor set (the best i can get atm) and got 5 proc items, well id say thats ok for the level of raids i go to regularry.</p><p>But my dps is something im worried about, because its VERY low. I hardly get 700dps, even our berserk gets more, im not sepakin about wizards and sometimes even bard does it better then me (think about it - a buffer gets more dps then a dps class...). So i just wonder... whats wrong with how i do things. Is it caster order? My KoS AA specs are str+sta, and my EoF AA specs are hastelings+explosions.</p><p>I usually do it into the next order:</p><p>Tumultuous Maelstrom, then i go Aura of Nihility, then Corrupt Gift, Netherous Realm, after that i do the two dots (War Pyre and the other one) then i go Catalyst+Apocalypse, Void Distortion and Void Absolution, then i do dark infestation, netheros, then if cds are up i go Void Disortion and Void Absolution again, meantime looking at the dots, when they are down - i cast them anew.</p><p>Im aware that such order is ineffective, and im seeking a way to improve, yet i fail to find a good order yet, im tryin different things by myself ofcourse, yet - dps still remains low. Based off my casting order - what is my mistakes are? I do it as i described above - first debuffs, then buffs, then dots, and then just cycle damage spells and dots. I need your sugestions. Thank you.</p><p> ps - and please, accept my apology for my english - it is not my 1st language.</p></blockquote><p>Never cast Netherlord, it sucks.</p><p>Try to pre-cast Netherous Realm+Wicked Gift right before the pull, not during the fight. Most trash fights are so short 15-20 seconds, spending 3-4 seconds on those two buffs will eat out of your dps.</p><p>This is my rotation on single target: Maelstrom, Catalyst Apocalypse (About when Dispatch Hits), Void Distortion, Dark Infestation, Torment of Shadows, War Pyre, Thwart, Soul Blister, then Void Distortion again, and by that time, mob is dead.</p><p>Multi-Mob: (FC+Rift if encounter is 3 or more), Maelstrom, Catalyst Apocalypse, Void Absolution, Nebula and/or Chaos Storm, Void Distortion. By this time, any heroic crap is dead, if there's at least two epic encounters, go to Dark Infestation, Torment of Shadows, War Pyre, Void Absolution, Void Distortion, Thwart, and Soul Blister. Rinse and repeat.</p><p>Aggro is so dependant on your raid as a whole, aggro control, what group you're in, and how much dps your raids putting out, but I'll say this much: unless you excplitcly are asked to hold off on damage for a reason, ALWAYS go balls to wall. Never worry about aggro, it's all about damage, damage, damage. There should NEVER be a pause in between spells. You can't stop casting, or you'll never top the parse, especially on single target.</p>

[Elvitz]

<p>Thank you. Ill try that.</p>

[Agaxiq]

Yes netherlord is overrated on the eq2bm site.Reason?It has a horrible %hit ratio on anything white or above.  On a grey/green mob (which they did their calculations) - netherlord will hit 100% of the time and even get in a few crits.  At that point, on a long fight, it is useful.However, on a yellow raid mob, it will barely hit 50%, if that.  Considering it also uses a nil crystal, it has limited use even on KoS raids.  Orange mobs is even worse.I pretty much only cast it on:1) TnT Mayong when reflect is up (reflects all spells back to caster, but it doesn't reflect netherlord)2) Wuoshi since I have to completely joust out of range anyways and when netherlord bites it its just added confirmation that Wuoshi's AOEs have gone off.Otherwise, its pretty much when I click the button by mistake.  If it had extra usefulness like AOE damage when it dies (like the Wizard dumbfire) I'd use it all the time.agressiv

[Windowlicker]

<cite>Deathspell wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pentarum wrote:</cite>Such high parse numbers... I'm sure it makes most people feel bad coz they don't come even close to it. So that's why I think it very very important to back up such parses with more detail.I'm fully mastered, i know my warlock, but i can say i've never parsed anywhere near 3k in EoF raids.Is my skill? is it the group? is the raid setup? am i reading the parse wrong? I don't know... all i know is i'm in the top5 or top3 and the mobs go down easily, and that while I read scores in my parse program of 1.2k or 1.6k....</blockquote><p>First off you should realize about 9.5 out of 10 people that relay parses are either complete full of it, or not giving all the appropriate information.</p><p>Think about it like a fisherman telling you how big the fish he caught was.</p><p>Rule of thumb, take any DPS claim you see in these forums and divide it by two.  That's likely what they really parsed.</p><p>Edit: As a footnote, there are so many factors that effect how the parse turns out .. it's impossible to really guage how well your doing vs people in forums based on numbers.  How do they end each parse?  How many seconds before the parse ends?  All of these things are important and can greatly change the numbers your seeing at the end of each fight.  Heck, what happens if the person ends each parse when the end-fight confirmation text is displayed?  Then they don't capture the *entire* parse.  What happens if they end it 5 seconds after all combat ends?  How about 3?  </p><p>Either way, you get the point.  The best way to guage your DPS VS other Warlocks is to simply run a parser while your raiding with them.  Beyond that, there's too many factors.</p>

[Oldlore]

The varying DPS posted on boards have more to do with your group/raid than anything else.  Consider that low-end raids are hitting 10-15K DPS whereas higher-end raids hit 30K+.  A more useful thing to look at would be <b>what % of the total raid dps are you doing?</b>  10%+ means you're doing ok imo.  If your raid is doing 15K DPS there ain't no way you're going to do 3K DPS and not bite it instantly, since your MT probably can't hold aggro vs. that yet, etc.Do you have a troub? Do you have Vim?Do you have synergism or TC?Do you have wiz casting frigid gift?Do you have 1-2 brigs raking/dispatching?Do you have a monk with raid-wide spell haste?This can affect DPS as much as/more than proc gear, BOE/INT/crit gear, and cast order.

[Phineus]

<p> Yup, raid buffs and debuffs along with rw dps will affect your dps heavily. I raided without any freeport classes much longer than I raided with. In qeynos we were lucky to break 20k. Grab some freeport classes and 40k is within reach(encounter not zw). I raided without troubs or wizards almost every raid but could still maintain 2nd place on the parse. Then if you do finally get troubs and wizards do they use their proc spells in a timely matter or jc you at the appropriate time and not 15 seconds too late every fricken time. I built my casting order around that spreadsheet and doubled my dps. Seems my intuition wasnt anywhere close. Precasting procs is huge and getting the dark infestation out there early always helps too. I used to have all procs up and rift inc as soon as the mob was in camp(hastenings line ftw). Then they changed rift and I had to adjust. If you have a crappy group   your going to do crappy dps. </p>

[knightofround]

I don't know, for awhile there I was buying into the whole "netherlord sucks" thing, but I've really had a turnaround with it. Even in FTH I see it doing 3-5% of my parse, which is phenomenal considering the quick casting time. Of course, if the mobs AE at all, it's toast. AE heavy zones such as DT and HoS aren't very good playing grounds for Netherlord, but it still gets lots of use in Labs, Lyceum, and FTH.I precasted my Realm/Gift for a long time, and just recently I changed it so I cast them in-battle. I'm definitely sticking with the casting them inside battle now, because pretty much 1/2 of the gift and realm is wasted by the time DPS in is called, and you get to your spells that will trigger them. (TM, Netherlord, and Aura don't trigger it, DI is single target, and Apoc is slow casting...and these are our 5 most efficient spells) Purely by changing from precast to inbattle, I've increased my DPS by about 2% on all fights that last longer than 30s. Of course if its going to be shorter you might as well precast.As an added bonus, the process of casting them in battle gives the MT a nice buffer to get his reactive taunts working before all of our DoTs start blossoming.And yeah, I'm one of those 10% of raid DPSers. It's true that %age of DPS is a better indicator than actual numbers, I will dip as low as 1k on the alt nights where we have only 10k avg, but on the nights we go upwards 18k I'll pull 2k+

[knightofround]

Single Target: TM Netherlord Aura Netherrealm Gift DI Freehand+Apoc Void Distort War Pyre Scourge Thwart (If tons of spell haste, toss in Glacialflame and then Soul Blister and then Chaostorm) Loop AE: TM Netherlord Aura Netherrealm Gift DI Chaostorm Freehand+Apoc Void Abs Chaostorm VulNull NullCaress Rift Chaostorm Concussive Aura Nebula (if more than 2 mobs, otherwise forget it) Void Distortion Chaostorm Loop

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

<p>The only way to consistently break into the really high numbers on single targets is to basically have a proc item in every slot possible, and every buff you can get to increase proc chance.</p><p>It's simpler than it sounds, because things like 2x rings of supremacy and a breath of the destroyer will take countless Deathtoll visits; and in general you need both rare KoS <i>and</i> EoF loot. Unlike scouts, who really just need a good weapon and masters to hit 3k, every single slot on your character matters. At least the masters are cheap :/</p>

[Agaxiq]

<cite>knightofround wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't know, for awhile there I was buying into the whole "netherlord sucks" thing, but I've really had a turnaround with it. Even in FTH I see it doing 3-5% of my parse</blockquote>So, here are the numbers for netherlord.Taken from <a href="http://www.eq2bm.com/guides/Warlock%20Spells.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">here</a>:I'm not in the game now but according to the chart Netherlord is our most expensive single target spell to cast - the most power *and* it uses a nil crystal.  Images from eq2idb disagree though, so I'd have to check it in game.  However, the damage estimates are correct.In order for netherlord to land all 18 ticks for 4.1k damage:1) The mob must be green or below2) It must not get hit by an AE (I think it has about 2k hitpoints)3) It must last 45 seconds.#2, sure, not a problem, but satisfying #1 and #3 is rare.  It will hit 50% on almost anything except for entrance labs trash, which it will do about 70% assuming it doesn't bite it.  As for encounter duration, 45 seconds is rather long except for EH trash and some in MMIS.So, assume it will hit for about 2k damage, maybe 3k with debuffs - if you can make it last the whole encounter.A single War Pyre which uses less power will probably near that damage *guaranteed*, especially if you have +spell damage adding to that, which doesn't help netherlord.   Netherlord may be 3-5% of your dps but it could be split into 6% of your DPS better put in other abilities - casting Netherlord means you aren't casting more efficient spells.  I'd rather use brock's thermal shocker.  Zero power, quick cast time.If they fixed the %/hit ratio (he is a master I netherlord afterall) I would change my tune in a heartbeat.  Or, if they added an AE component or AE on death component, sure.I have an open mind though, so I'll cast it every fight tonight and see if it helps numbers.  Heck, maybe I'll precast it since it generates almost zero hate.agressiv

[knightofround]

Netherlord may not be as good as the spreadsheet's efficiency makes it out to be. But you, sir, are incorrect to assume its worthlessness. I sympathize with your cause; I, too, used to be an abandon-netherlord-to-the-pits fanatic. =) But real numbers don't lie.Parse it yourself. I believe that you will find that on a per-cast basis, it is slightly better war-pyre, slightly worse than distortion. Assuming that it isn't killed by an AE, of course.I disagree that 3% of netherlord could be split into other, more efficient abilities. The strength of netherlord is its long duration; if I casted apocalypse a little earlier instead of casting netherlord, I would steal add aggro in hurry. But with netherlord I don't have to pay any aggro "cost" until it gets killed.