What was the point of the 2 second delay on quest widgets?

[Dynaen]

I realize its a bit late now since it was implemented, but what the heck was the point of this?  Was being able to get a work order instantly by clicking on the desk overpowered or something?  Giving it a 2 second cast time just seems completely pointless.  I realize the work order benches aren't the only thing affected by this, but I don't understand this at all.

[BarrowBott]

<cite>Dynaen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I realize its a bit late now since it was implemented, but what the heck was the point of this?  Was being able to get a work order instantly by clicking on the desk overpowered or something?  Giving it a 2 second cast time just seems completely pointless.  I realize the work order benches aren't the only thing affected by this, but I don't understand this at all.</blockquote>Probably to combat people interacting with widgets while FD'd.  I know I have been guilty of doing this.

[Catsy]

If so, why not implement a painfully simple bit of logic that tests whether or not someone is FD'd, or in any other status in which they shouldn't be interacting with these objects? Seems like yet another "feature" that wastes everyone's time in order to address a very limited issue.

[liveja]

<p>Since it doesn't break stealth or invis, it's almost entirely pointless. </p><p>If stopping people from clicking widgets while feigned was the idea, then SOE burned down a house to kill a flea.</p>

[Sunrayn]

Simple...All those 2 second clicks add up...Slow down your gameplay and force you to keep playing and paying just a bit longer.  Most people wont care about 2 seconds here and 2 seconds there but, add them all up at the end of the year and SOE gets an extra 14.99 for adding just 2 seconds.

[Bramwe]

I ran through the Vampire L&L last night and the 2 second click is definitely annoying.  Why can't it be a 0.1 second click or as someone said just have it cancel FD.  If they are worried about people standing up and getting the update quick before the mobs aggro then can't the delay be 1 second?  2 seconds is pretty long.

[Sapphirius]

<p>Well, we don't know if FD is the reason that it was implemented. Until a dev comes right out and says, "This is why we put in the 2 second delay," the best we can do is <i>guess</i>.</p><p>My own theory is that it has more to do with the change as it was originally implemented. In order for it to cancel stealth and invis, the mechanics of how it was gathered had to be changed. However, reversing the process of making it not cancel invis was easier than reversing the change entirely. That's just my own theory, and it may be entirely off the mark.</p><p>Personally, I didn't mind the stealth/invis breaking as much as I minded the 2 second delay to gather it. I wasn't happy with either change, but I was much more unhappy with the delay than anything else. None of my characters (even my low DPS ones) make use of stealth/invis to reach their quest updates. They just fight all the way through because the kills give them loot to sell and AA exp.</p>

[Strums]

<p>Their is even a two second cast time when zoneing through each lvl in poets now...just kinda wierd feeling really.</p>

[lilmohi]

You know i read the patch notes and thought they meant there was a 2 second cool down after using a widget before you could use it again. I can see a point for something like that to keep people from using some kind of macro to spam widgets and possibly crash servers. However putting the 2 seconds during and then allowing you to clicky them invis seems to indicate they have another reason for this.

[Bozidar]

<p>some think it was to stop an exploit where you could turn in certain quests when you were dead (history of the races, LL quests), and get AA w/o getting xp.</p>

[Bramwe]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>some think it was to stop an exploit where you could turn in certain quests when you were dead (history of the races, LL quests), and get AA w/o getting xp.</p></blockquote>And the only time that would matter is in level locking on a PvP server.  I hope that isn't the reason, but lack of a response would seem to indicate it is a reason that may irritate people.

[Bozidar]

<cite>Bramwell@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>some think it was to stop an exploit where you could turn in certain quests when you were dead (history of the races, LL quests), and get AA w/o getting xp.</p></blockquote>And the only time that would matter is in level locking on a PvP server.  I hope that isn't the reason, but lack of a response would seem to indicate it is a reason that may irritate people.</blockquote><p>and i'd be on board with those that are irritated.</p><p>It was a bad fix if that was the reason.</p><p>You could have just made inventory items un-inspect-able while dead, the way you can't move inventory items when dead.  No reason for this delay thing, it's annoying.</p>

[liveja]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>You could have just made inventory items un-inspect-able while dead</p></blockquote><p>Yea, which is just such common sense that I wonder why it wasn't the option they chose.</p><p>Assuming, that is, that the theory you described is correct. But since the widgets don't break stealth, I fail to see any other reason for this change.</p>

[Prrasha]

Well, as it stands, it not only prevents feign-training to get updates, it prevents non-feign training.  My paladin would look at the toolbox in Loping Plains surrounded by a dozen blue-con gremlins, and go "aim horse at widget, Num-lock key for autorun, hold mouse pointer over widget, pound on F key for item use..." and the get update on flyby while the gremlins, wolves, and stirges nipped at his heels.So:--no more feign-training to widgets--no more non-feign training to widgets--no more use of aggro-surrounded widgets by <30 level characters of non-stealth classesIt's apparently (1) a bizarre, 2-seconds-at-a-time timesink, (2) a way to get WWs to sell even more jaguar totems, (3) a way to make certain sub-30 quests require more gyrations to complete.Unless there's some quest/mob/widget structures added in RoK that make it all make sense... it looks pretty nonsensical right now.

[Cocytus]

<p>Agreed, these new quest widgets are very awkward and I kinda liked the game better without them.</p><p>Honestly? It's like....I'm not going to quit EQ2 over it. I'm not going to complain and make some 50 thread page against them. It's not THAT big of a deal, it's just kinda awkward feeling. I'd prefer that they set it back the way it was, but if they dont'....meh, I'll live.</p>

[Magic]

<p>I think that they added this "feature" to stop me from doing what I used to do.  My level 10 Fae would stand just out of aggro range of the Orc guard at the tower's door where the Bixie L&L book was in Greater Faydark near Crushbone castle.  It'd run towards the door mashing the left mouse button to open it on the fly.  I knew where I was going inside so I made a bee-line for the crate and quickly put my mouse pointer on it and mashed the mouse button until I picked up the book.  Death didn't matter after that because I was never going to get out alive anyway.  The guards are red to me at that level.  The book was worth the effort.</p><p>Now I stand there and wait for the 2-second timer to expire so that I can get that book.  However, I die before it even gets halfway done.  I haven't tried running while the timer was going, but I assume that it will abort if I were to move, as most of my spells do when I move.  In real life you must open the container, reach inside, and then grab the item you want.  You can't do this on the run in real life.  But then again we don't have dragons in real life either, so breaking a few laws of physics in the game should be allowed.  Anyway, it certainly alters my tactics in so many cases now.  I wouldn't cry if they took this feature out.</p>

[retro_guy]

Does jumping cancel the 2-sec cast bar? I can only think of one application for this 2-second delay and that is to give me the chance to cancel the effect before it takes place e.g. buy a ticket to Nek Forest and click the bell, then remember that I need to check the broker (I hit jump) and the bell is cancelled. It also would work the same way in Neriak where I select the wrong port location and can cancel it within 2 seconds by jumping. Same for Qeynos if I select Geystone accidently then realise as I click it, I can jump to cancel. As long as it works this way I actually like the change, even though as a caster I liked being able to invis for updates, but I'll get over it.

[Cusashorn]

any type of movement cancels it out. It sucks. having to wait 2 seconds to throw the switch to open a door in the Obelisks, and other places now too.

[ke'la]

<cite>retro_guy wrote:</cite><blockquote>Does jumping cancel the 2-sec cast bar?I can only think of one application for this 2-second delay and that is to give me the chance to cancel the effect before it takes place e.g. buy a ticket to Nek Forest and click the bell, then remember that I need to check the broker (I hit jump) and the bell is cancelled.It also would work the same way in Neriak where I select the wrong port location and can cancel it within 2 seconds by jumping.Same for Qeynos if I select Geystone accidently then realise as I click it, I can jump to cancel.As long as it works this way I actually like the change, even though as a caster I liked being able to invis for updates, but I'll get over it.</blockquote>It does not effect apearntly Bells and the Carpet to SS, as I have been able to use that and no timer.

[MullenSkywatcher]

<cite>Magical wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I think that they added this "feature" to stop me from doing what I used to do.  My level 10 Fae would stand just out of aggro range of the Orc guard at the tower's door where the Bixie L&L book was in Greater Faydark near Crushbone castle.  It'd run towards the door mashing the left mouse button to open it on the fly.  I knew where I was going inside so I made a bee-line for the crate and quickly put my mouse pointer on it and mashed the mouse button until I picked up the book.  Death didn't matter after that because I was never going to get out alive anyway.  The guards are red to me at that level.  The book was worth the effort.</p><p>Now I stand there and wait for the 2-second timer to expire so that I can get that book.  However, I die before it even gets halfway done.  I haven't tried running while the timer was going, but I assume that it will abort if I were to move, as most of my spells do when I move.  In real life you must open the container, reach inside, and then grab the item you want.  You can't do this on the run in real life.  But then again we don't have dragons in real life either, so breaking a few laws of physics in the game should be allowed.  Anyway, it certainly alters my tactics in so many cases now.  I wouldn't cry if they took this feature out.</p></blockquote>It doesn't sound to me like you were using an exploit.  Just smart playing.  I mean, a mechanic to stop you from getting a LnL book?  Whoa!  Stop the presses!  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Yojimbo99]

<p>The change is nothing more then what seems to be 'busy' work for a pool of programmers. This entire change sucks and un-needed. It seems to be first done to further nerf invis/stealth and then at the last second changed to just a complete time sink with no purpose.</p><p>Now I know we have all been exploiting that [Removed for Content] sign in the city that showed our  slayer rankings so maybe this was needed; and maybe I am a Chinese jet pilot too.</p><p>As to whether this has something to do with pvp: well we all know for a fact that soe would never ever make a blanket change to game mechanics that just envoled a pvp aspect of the game. /rollseyes</p><p>un-needed, unwanted and just another way to [Removed for Content] people off for no reason..go sony</p>

[Hikinami]

I wish this was just a Bristlebane prank...

[Amocus]

<cite>MullenSkywatcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>It doesn't sound to me like you were using an exploit.  Just smart playing.  I mean, a mechanic to stop you from getting a LnL book?  Whoa!  Stop the presses!  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote> Actually, though not technically an exploit, and though I've been guilty of the doing pretty much the same thing, I think it does fall into that gray area of playing whereby you are trying to gain something for pretty much nothing.So many of the posters on this board cry about how death means nothing, nothing is hard anymore, how you don't have to earn your rewards, and then they turn around and do things (such as the death run to get a LL book) that further trivializes death and rewards.Now we'll all have to work a little harder to get that reward, now death may have a sting to it. Not only will we die, but we won't get the reward! Isn't that what we all wanted? For things to be harder, to have to work for that reward?Huh, isn't it?  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[liveja]

<cite>Amocus@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><b></b>Now we'll all have to work a little harder to get that reward, now death may have a sting to it. Not only will we die, but we won't get the reward! Isn't that what we all wanted? For things to be harder, to have to work for that reward?Huh, isn't it?  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>What you say would make sense, if the 2-second casting time by itself broke stealth. Since it doesn't, it renders the change pointless for a whole lot of things.</p><p>The only situations in which this new change actually adds any danger are places like the Cyclops book in Sinking Sands, where the surrounding spiders see thru stealth/invis & will un-stealth you before you can even start the timer. In the past, it was very easy to run thru, grab aggro, grab the book, & keep going. Does that trivialize content? Yes. Now, though, you need a full group just to get the book. Compare that to almost any other L&L book that can be acquired without worries, & IMHO, it makes getting the Cyclops book go from cheezy-ez to ludicrously difficult.</p><p>You can still, however, stealth thru the Stormhold artifacts quest, because even though you have the 2-second casting time, none of the mobs around the artifacts see thru stealth/invis, & picking up the artifacts won't break your stealth. You can still stealth-complete the Dwarven Ringmail Tunic HQ, because none of the mobs in the entrance way of CBK see thru stealth, & opening the chests won't break stealth. You can still pick up all the Quacker Ducks in SFM, & so on & so forth.</p><p>So, for the most part, this change was entirely pointless for the purpose you describe. There are only a few places where it will actually cause you any danger.</p>

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>Well at least it proved what I said on the test forums about 100% gamewide mechanics changes only changing the mechanic and nothing else around it. Cyclops L&L being a case in point as described.</p><p>It happened with social aggro as well. </p>

[KannaWhoopass]

<p>Ill tell ya where it sucks </p><p>Im in stormhold in the bottom level. </p><p>I see a pvp Group comming down the stairs they have me on track . </p><p>So  i think i gotta run out of here. </p><p>I make a break for the Grate in the basement that zones you back to teh door.</p><p>It is not a click item you must use it. </p><p>On my sprint a mob started attacking me. </p><p>hit use on Grate latch ...... 1    .. mob interupts me ... try again .. interupt .. again .... again .... again ..... im dying ..... hit manashield ... try again .... again .... again ..... again .... again .... again ..... again .... again .... </p><p>Group finds me ... kills me.... </p><p>It Sucked ....... </p>

[KBern]

<cite>Cocytus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Agreed, these new quest widgets are very awkward and I kinda liked the game better without them.</p><p>Honestly? It's like....I'm not going to quit EQ2 over it. I'm not going to complain and make some 50 thread page against them. It's not THAT big of a deal, it's just kinda awkward feeling. I'd prefer that they set it back the way it was, but if they dont'....meh, I'll live.</p></blockquote><p>It would simply be nice to have a logical and concise reason why this change was implemented.</p><p>We all know there HAS to be a specific reason for it, why not just inform the playerbase of what it was.  It might be easier to accept at that point.</p><p>That is one of my bigger gripes.  When changes are made well into the game and no real reason is ever provided.</p>

[Guy De Alsace]

<cite>Saurakk@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cocytus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Agreed, these new quest widgets are very awkward and I kinda liked the game better without them.</p><p>Honestly? It's like....I'm not going to quit EQ2 over it. I'm not going to complain and make some 50 thread page against them. It's not THAT big of a deal, it's just kinda awkward feeling. I'd prefer that they set it back the way it was, but if they dont'....meh, I'll live.</p></blockquote><p>It would simply be nice to have a logical and concise reason why this change was implemented.</p><p>We all know there HAS to be a specific reason for it, why not just inform the playerbase of what it was.  It might be easier to accept at that point.</p><p><b>That is one of my bigger gripes.  When changes are made well into the game and no real reason is ever provided</b>.</p></blockquote><p>Agreed. Some of these changes might get less flak if someone in the know actually came out with the reasoning behind it. A hint such as "it was necessary to implement quests in RoK" or something would possibly ameliorate some of the antipathy. </p><p>As it is we are just left scratching our heads when many of these changes appear. </p>

[Blackmanta]

It dont change any of my play style or affect me in anyways but to annoy me..Would be nice if some dev could say why the heck they put this in the game

[Kari]

LOL - I wonder when the expansion comes out if there will be a quest or an aa series to reduce the widget timer...

[Kasar]

If you're stifled, you can't inspect things.Gotta wait on self-stifles to terminate before interacting with anything.

[Barq Bandit]

<span style="font-size: small;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">I'm confused about this as well.  I just can't fathom the reason for this.</span>

[Bozidar]

<cite>Tock@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="font-size: small;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">I'm confused about this as well.  I just can't fathom the reason for this.</span></blockquote>it would be simply lovely to get a dev response on this, wouldn't it?

[StormCinder]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tock@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="font-size: small;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">I'm confused about this as well.  I just can't fathom the reason for this.</span></blockquote>it would be simply lovely to get a dev response on this, wouldn't it?</blockquote><p>Multiple threads in multiple forums, and not a single "red-name" response.  Odd.</p><p>SC</p>

[Arunhakk]

<p><span style="font-size: small;font-family: Times New Roman;">There is a quest you get from the 999 Year Old Port in Commonlands (also a version I think in Antonica) where you get on a gnomish pirate ship.  One of the things you have to do is click a "wind-o-matic" as fast as you can to get it to start.  The 2 sec widget timer makes it so you cannot procede past that portion of the quest.</span></p><p>Quest broken!!  *listens intently*</p>

[Terrius]

LOL I'm sorry i found that reply funny, cause i remember doing that quest and can only imagine the annoyance due to this horrible change. I still dont understand it, I mean it's just another timesink that'll deter newer players sucess in the game. /shrug i wouldnt have mind if it were a 1 or .5 second delay but 2 is very annoying.

[Freydinessa]

2 seconds?! lol, i can handle that.

[TheStateFish]

<p>At least one of the sub-quests for Undead Censorship in the Peacock line, The Secret of Du'Mutef, is impossible to complete now, as a button is half way up one of the 60 foot walls. </p><p>The switches for the claymore line in the gorg pit are also impossible to get.</p><p>Did anyone actually test this internally? How do you forget about your epic quest lines and break two of them in one patch? And how soon can we expect it to be reverted to it's original, perfect working state?</p>

[Thunderthyze]

<cite>Sunrayn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Simple...All those 2 second clicks add up...Slow down your gameplay and force you to keep playing and paying just a bit longer.  Most people wont care about 2 seconds here and 2 seconds there but, add them all up at the end of the year and SOE gets an extra 14.99 for adding just 2 seconds.</blockquote><p>LOL.....you're not serious, right?</p><p>In case you're not....then there is NO additional cost. It is just additional time, or I suppose, to follow your reasoning less achieved in the same time.</p><p>Life's too short...really.</p>

[Grimwell]

Red name post. I'll see what I can learn. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[melaine_dvarvensplitter]

<cite>Grimwell wrote:</cite><blockquote>Red name post. I'll see what I can learn. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>HAAHAA!!! Oops I am a troll but couldn't resist as I have nothing to say here.

[BarrowBott]

<cite>Grimwell wrote:</cite><blockquote>Red name post. I'll see what I can learn. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Thanks for the followup Grimwell <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[MrWolfie]

<p>I'm confused as to its purpose too.</p><p>But what I really hate about it, is how LAZY a change it is. It's like God* noticing that some people were straining their arms pulling on heavy doors using only one hand. From there He decided that ALL doors should require the use of TWO hands to open, thereby ruining all action movies** where the detective has to open a door while readying his pistol. Was it really necessary to change all the doors in existence?</p><p>WTG to ruin DIE HARD, devs. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>*or, say, the Beyonder.</p><p>** which, of course, being omnipotent and all, He wouldn't. Remember: God Loves, Devs Nerf.</p>

[liveja]

<cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sunrayn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Simple...All those 2 second clicks add up...Slow down your gameplay and force you to keep playing and paying just a bit longer.  Most people wont care about 2 seconds here and 2 seconds there but, add them all up at the end of the year and SOE gets an extra 14.99 for adding just 2 seconds.</blockquote><p>LOL.....you're not serious, right?</p><p>In case you're not....then there is NO additional cost. It is just additional time, or I suppose, to follow your reasoning less achieved in the same time.</p><p>Life's too short...really.</p></blockquote><p>Ya know, seriously, the REAL complaint here has nothing to do with 2 seconds being taken off someone's life <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>The REAL complaint here is three-fold:</p><p>A. The change is utterly pointless, since it doesn't break stealth or invis.</p><p>B. Several quests have been BROKEN by this utterly pointless change.</p><p>C. The apparent reason for this change could have been taken care of via the common-sense expedient of not allowing people to manipulate items in their inventories when they're dead, or to turn in quests when they're dead, or to gain any XP/APXP while dead. Note that for purposes of this change, Feign Death should be the same as "dead".</p><p>It would be nice if people could stick to the REAL issues of this change.</p>

[Case21]

<cite>Prof@Blackburrow wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>The switches for the claymore line in the gorg pit are also impossible to get.</p><p>Did anyone actually test this internally? How do you forget about your epic quest lines and break two of them in one patch? And how soon can we expect it to be reverted to it's original, perfect working state?</p></blockquote><p>In the future, before posting such hostile messages, I'd recommend that you test the bugs yourself. While its true the Peacock quest line is bugged, the Claymore quest works fine. The Gorg Pit switches are all instant cast,  this is just one of those rumors that gets started by folks who assume rather then try. Reporting things that work to the devs just distract from the actual issue.</p>

[Louis_M]

well i have not seen any change to the quest items in my inventory that i have to look at to continue a quest if i just click the link in the chat window it bypasses any delay if that was indeed the reason for the change.   however i can confirm the 99 year old port quest is now impossible to do because of the 2nd delay don't mater how fast you click you cant get the stupid engine to start which sucks.

[feldon30]

This seems like a very bad change to me.One of the most fun things of ANY game on ANY system (Nintendo, Genesis, Super Nintendo, Playstation, PC, etc.) has always been doing something in the nick-of-time or "run-and-gun" type behavior. The "oh my God, we almost died" or "Wow, just made it" is one of the most thrilling things of ANY game. And now they have removed that and probably not for any well-reasoned purpose.Looking forward to Grimwell's response.

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>I successfullly harvested the map in the Thexian Forward Post in Lesser Faydark today while being attacked by 3 mobs simultaneously. I wanted to see if its an automatic interrupt or not. Turns out it isnt automatic however it took me around 8 or 9 attempts to get it without an interrupt. </p><p>Luckily the mobs were green and I was in plate so I didnt take much damage. Maybe someone with high avoidance would fare better or better focus skill? Dunno. </p>

[KannaWhoopass]

<p>Yup try to do the claymore quest ....cant do it .. on one of the walls the box is in the middle .. </p><p>In the Peacock questline .. if the mobs are not grey to you .. you cant do it without a group training agro in front for you ... casue if you try to run it before the timer runs out .. you get aggro and cant use the boxes while mobs hiting you . </p><p>And to get the boxes which are half way up walls you need to jump off the wall (You cant click while on a wall ) and land on the little ledge of the box you are trying to click .. so you can stand on it and click it. </p><p>Not sure why this was implemented other than to stop monks and bruisers from FD clicking items. </p>

[Galn]

<cite>Saurakk@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It would simply be nice to have a logical and concise reason why this change was implemented.</p><p>We all know there HAS to be a specific reason for it, why not just inform the playerbase of what it was.  It might be easier to accept at that point.</p><p><b>That is one of my bigger gripes.  When changes are made well into the game and no real reason is ever provided.</b></p></blockquote><p>This has been one of my biggest gripes about the game, since I started playing many many moons ago. Devs change something, dont tell us why and then they sit back and watch the speculation, and erroneous assumptions fly like bats out of a cave on the forums. A simple "We are changing X because y" would cut this down to nearly nothing and would save a lot of players frustration and probably keep people from leaving the game. </p><p>Another complaint I have is after playing this game for almost 3 years it is VERY annoying to have to click a widget and have to wait 2 seconds for something to finish. Another annoying aspect of it, if you dont know the timer is there and run around clicking on things expecting them to update, and they dont, when you are finished it is very frustrating. </p>

[Dynaen]

<cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote>One of the most fun things of ANY game on ANY system (Nintendo, Genesis, Super Nintendo, Playstation, PC, etc.) has always been doing something in the nick-of-time or "run-and-gun" type behavior. The "oh my God, we almost died" or "Wow, just made it" is one of the most thrilling things of ANY game. And now they have removed that and probably not for any well-reasoned purpose.</blockquote><p>This is probably my biggest gripe about it, next to the pointlessness of the change.  Bumrushing to get a quest item, or L&L book was FUN.  It was fun telling people about things you pulled off right before you died.  Or the sense of satisfaction of at least finishing something before you died and had to revive at the entrance of a dungeon.</p><p>There were a bazillion other ways to fix this if people inspecting crap in their inventories while dead was messing things up.</p>

[Tae]

It's made the statue part of Poet's Palace a nightmare, and it wasn't fun the first time. Now clicking on the pedestals to see how many runes they have takes 2 seconds each.

[retro_guy]

<cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote>This seems like a very bad change to me.One of the most fun things of ANY game on ANY system (Nintendo, Genesis, Super Nintendo, Playstation, PC, etc.) has always been doing something in the nick-of-time or "run-and-gun" type behavior. The "oh my God, we almost died" or "Wow, just made it" is one of the most thrilling things of ANY game. And now they have removed that and probably not for any well-reasoned purpose.Looking forward to Grimwell's response.</blockquote>I agree with you on this - being able to something you "shouldn't" be able to because of you level / faction is always fun and not at all gamebreaking.I mean - running into a room and clicking to get a quest starter, or sending the pet the the mob and running past to grab an item where you might otherwise have to fight for ages or get a group, or come back in 10 levels to do the same is hardly game breaking is it?I remember in Gothic (or Gothic II) a cave with some very tough skeletons and some nice looking loots, I spent an hour or 2 getting the skeletons to chase me then running them off down the path until they stopped following and racing them back to the cave to grab all the loots (and a nice sword) before thet got back home. My mate was laughing his head off watching. It's similar in EQ2 in many places, why add a 2 second "cast" on every item like this, we now have to harvest?? If we get any agro in that time the "cast" breaks and makes it impossible to get the update, very bad for those that like to quest solo.Not a great chcnge in my opinion.

[Dorieon]

<p>Lol I was helping some guildies out tonight getting pages for SoD and everyone in the grp was asking if they could get the page without breaking invis. I told them "yes go ahead, they changed it so it doesn't break invis." Everyone thought they were now on par with me for collecting quest items until I told them I couldn't do it while fd anymore. Then they all laughed at me. </p><p>But seriously, if this was in fact aimed at brawlers (and it looks that way since it doesn't break invis) all you did was give me a few extra deaths. Its a pain in the [Removed for Content] but I am still gonna get my [Removed for Content]. I may have to get a group for a few things but for almost everything else I will play the "click the item, fd, stand, click the item, fd, stand click the item, get the item, fd" game. Its not fun but I make it work.</p><p>I hope you change this back soon as it seems that almost everyone hates this change. Not to mention that it seems you have made a few quest nigh impossible (SoS claymore anyone). </p>

[toenukl]

<cite>Kari wrote:</cite><blockquote>LOL - I wonder when the expansion comes out if there will be a quest or an aa series to reduce the widget timer...</blockquote>[Removed for Content]!----------I agree, hate the widget change as well as the newly broken quests. Please revert this pointless change thnx.

[SisterTheresa]

<cite>Louis_M wrote:</cite><blockquote>well i have not seen any change to the quest items in my inventory that i have to look at to continue a quest if i just click the link in the chat window it bypasses any delay if that was indeed the reason for the change.   however i can confirm the 99 year old port quest is now impossible to do because of the 2nd delay don't mater how fast you click you cant get the stupid engine to start which sucks.</blockquote><p>QFE</p><p>I can get over the timer to do certain things, and come back later with some friends to get a book or what not ... but THIS is dumb.  Breaking quests ticks me off ...</p><p>Just as much as that flipping kobold camp farmer last night ... <twitches badly, takes meds></p><p>Better.  Please devs think through more before implementing something?  Cause it's still borked if you can do things stealthed/invis (which being a Templar I can't do either without selling my bodily parts for totems I can USE yet)</p>

[blacksheep12183]

<p>I didn't read the entire thread so not sure if this has been said, BUT.  It finally fixes Ghosting,  if you know what that is, people would come out of a ghost and spam click a quest item before they got hamemred.  Thankfully they can't do that anymore it was getting pretty old hearing about it.</p>

[Harvash]

<cite>KannaWhoopass wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yup try to do the claymore quest ....cant do it .. on one of the walls the box is in the middle .. </p></blockquote>Just did this last night, 23 Sept 2007.  All went well, first time go at this task.  Push 4 boxes in order x 4 sets of boxes.  Completed with 70 Monk and 70 Fury.

[Killerbee3000]

<cite>blacksheep12183 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I didn't read the entire thread so not sure if this has been said, BUT.  It finally fixes Ghosting,  if you know what that is, people would come out of a ghost and spam click a quest item before they got hamemred.  Thankfully they can't do that anymore it was getting pretty old hearing about it.</p></blockquote>they have the harvestable quest updates for that allready.... the ones in forsaken city are a good example for that... impossible to do the quests for 3rd floor tower access without fighting the mobs around the quest updates because you need to harvest them (i know that its possible to do nizara to fix the faction so you can get you updates in fc, but thats not the point here).

[MrWolfie]

<cite>Harvash wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just did this last night, 23 Sept 2007.  All went well, first time go at this task.  Push 4 boxes in order x 4 sets of boxes.  Completed with 70 Monk and 70 Fury.</blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">Doesn't hurt your testing that all the mobs are grey. You should try doing it at the appropriate level. And no FD.</span></p><p><cite>Ahkz@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This has been one of my biggest gripes about the game, since I started playing many many moons ago. Devs change something, dont tell us why and then they sit back and watch the speculation, and erroneous assumptions fly like bats out of a cave on the forums. A simple "We are changing X because y" would cut this down to nearly nothing and would save a lot of players frustration and probably keep people from leaving the game. </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">OK. The reason they don't tell us why they make changes is that among the many thousands of players, there's going to be someone who can come up with a more graceful, much better implemented, and more logical remedy for any given problem. No matter what the devs come up with, they'd ALWAYS be shot down with a flurry of accurate reasoning (and, most likely, a whole lot of inaccurate rubbish too).</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">So, in this case, the devs introduce this blanket change nerfing all widgets and impeding all classes, broke invis and stealth (originally) when they tell us it was to stop Brawlers we would come up with multiple methods of stopping it without cast timers (and have already) ~ and they would look like fools.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">Of course, that they put in this change, broke some quests, have some widgets with timers that aren't appropriate, broke dialogue boxes, and annoyed 99% of the players, well that only goes to prove that they are...shall we say, nearsighted.</span></p><p><cite>blacksheep12183 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I didn't read the entire thread so not sure if this has been said, BUT.  It finally fixes Ghosting,  if you know what that is, people would come out of a ghost and spam click a quest item before they got hamemred.  Thankfully they can't do that anymore it was getting pretty old hearing about it.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">Ghosting? I have no idea what you're talking about ~ but *whatever* it is, the solution is not to impede every player in the game.  And obviously, as one player who doesn't know what this is (or care, tbh) I'm being penalised for someone else's behaviour. </span></p>

[tamikasipke]

<cite>MrWolfie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Harvash wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just did this last night, 23 Sept 2007.  All went well, first time go at this task.  Push 4 boxes in order x 4 sets of boxes.  Completed with 70 Monk and 70 Fury.</blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">Doesn't hurt your testing that all the mobs are grey. You should try doing it at the appropriate level. And no FD.</span></p></blockquote>That claymore part is far from grey in deep Sots, mobs are around lvl67-69-70... ^^

[Ikabob]

<cite>Grimwell wrote:</cite><blockquote>Red name post. I'll see what I can learn. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>It's been like 6 days.. any idea as to why this was changed? a reason, not just speculation like everyone is doing?

[Vydian]

One person mentioned ghosting and that's the reason for this change. If you don't know what it is, don't worry about it as it is an exploit and would probably get someone banned if they explained. Suffice to say it fixes some stuff and not others.

[Harvash]

<cite>MrWolfie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Harvash wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just did this last night, 23 Sept 2007.  All went well, first time go at this task.  Push 4 boxes in order x 4 sets of boxes.  Completed with 70 Monk and 70 Fury.</blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">Doesn't hurt your testing that all the mobs are grey. You should try doing it at the appropriate level. And no FD</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">OK. </span></p></blockquote><p>Err...no grey mobs in gorg room in SoS, don't remember exact levels, but they were blue con.  Also, task is timed, no time for FD and that wouldnt have helped my duo partner either.  Essentially, if your gear is not complete garbage..you run across the room onto the wall, thereby breaking the encounter.  </p><p> Also, as stated elsewhere in this thread, you can no longer interact while FD'd.</p>

[liveja]

<p>I just want to know why the teleporter that takes you from one part of Neriak to another is considered a "quest widget", for purposes of this change.</p><p>Granted, it's only 2 seconds. It's just that it seems so completely, utterly pointless to have to wait 2 seconds, THEN go thru the whole "zone loading" bit. Even more strange, the cloud portals in the KOS zones don't seem to have the 2 second wait time before they become active; if the intra-Neriak transportal has one, why not the intra-zone transports in KOS?</p><p>I think that SOE targeted some particular issues that needed attention, & then went after those issues with sledgehammers instead of scalpels.</p>

[Magic]

<p>I've noticed that this game has so many aspects interwoven that it is very fragile.  Any change, regardless of how well-intentioned, will cause repercussions in other aspects of the game.  Like this widget timer breaking one or more quests that depend upon quick clicking.  I guess this is the reason for this board in the first place.  With the massive size of the EQ2 program, it is difficult to think about everything that will be affected.  It's up to us to provide feedback and bug reports, as we're already doing.</p><p>I'd like to see this timer removed, or have a dev provide us with the reason for having it.  Who knows, maybe the next expansion will have a spell or ability that will reduce or eliminate this delay.  It seems silly to have something that we've had all along suddenly get taken away from us.  It will naturally make us ask why.</p>

[Dynaen]

<cite>Ikabob@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Grimwell wrote:</cite>It's been like 6 days.. any idea as to why this was changed? a reason, not just speculation like everyone is doing?</blockquote>I get the feeling with lack of response or any sensible explanation, this is going to fall into the "move along, nothing to see here, suck it up" changes and leave everyone aggravated until people start forgetting about it in a year.

[MrWolfie]

<cite>Eneoki@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>MrWolfie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Harvash wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just did this last night, 23 Sept 2007.  All went well, first time go at this task.  Push 4 boxes in order x 4 sets of boxes.  Completed with 70 Monk and 70 Fury.</blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">Doesn't hurt your testing that all the mobs are grey. You should try doing it at the appropriate level. And no FD</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff9900;">OK. </span></p></blockquote><p>Err...no grey mobs in gorg room in SoS, don't remember exact levels, but they were blue con.  Also, task is timed, no time for FD and that wouldnt have helped my duo partner either.  Essentially, if your gear is not complete garbage..you run across the room onto the wall, thereby breaking the encounter.  </p><p> Also, as stated elsewhere in this thread, you can no longer interact while FD'd.</p></blockquote>Ah, right. My bad. I thought you were on about the button pushing in Living Tombs. I now recall the gorg pit quest ~ So you can cast while on the walls now, can you?

[Zin`Car]

<cite>Grimwell wrote:</cite><blockquote>Red name post. I'll see what I can learn. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>hooray for the cursory "red name post"!</p><p>So... um... it's been 11 days. (your investigation skill is now 1/350! Bong!)</p><p>Can we get an official post by a genuine SOE employee as to why this was done or is player speculation sufficient?</p>

[xpraetorianx]

no kiddding,  Claymore and Peacock quests are practically impossible in some steps now as well.   Utterly pointless change to gameplay that is yet again NOT discussed fully amongst the developers that have resulted in breaking several major questlines.  Way to go.  How can you make a change like this and expect it NOT to break something?  Honestly I think SOE was trying to make the Widgets work like the Investigation Skill but they failed horribly at implementing it and broke the game in areas because they didnt think ahead at what would transpire.Just get rid of it already and seriously bonk the person on the head who thought this was a cleavor idea.....

[Zin`Car]

<p>i believe the reasoning is a BWSS* resolution.  It's a standard SOE protocol resolution that has been implimented to cover a variety of changes which have been gone live throughout the development of all of the various SOE titles.  SWG has had quite an abundant "BWSS" changes and all have worked out as intended by the developmental staff.  Such changes have always been well thought out, planned, tested from paper to programming.  They have passed <i>extensive </i>Q/A before being given the approval of a BWSS.  Never in the history of any SOE game has a BWSS resolution been reversed due to the extensive, and comprehensive testing such changes must pass.  The BWSS is the highest possible and most prestigious of passing grades any decision can be given.  The power to grant such covetted accolades cannot be abused.  a very select few even have permission to give out a BWSS.</p><p>It takes a well learned and sagely wise beyond his years individual to know what is and is not deserving of a BWSS.  I am most certain that this change we face now has earned its right to bear the mark.</p><p><span style="font-size: xx-small;">*Because we said so</span></p>

[liveja]

<cite>Grimwell wrote:</cite><blockquote>Red name post. I'll see what I can learn. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Been 12 days now, Grim. Any chance we could get *some* kind of *actual* response to this? Seriously, even a "we're still looking into this & debating internally what to do next" would be superior to silence <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Krontak]

SOE should just change this to 30 seconds to add to the immersion of the game.  THAT would be FUN!!!

[saliorboy]

13 days.

[xpraetorianx]

...and still counting....

[Zin`Car]

have you ever known your parents to give you a deeper explaination then the BWSS?  expect nothing less...

[IKilled007]

Why was this changed?

[Grimwell]

Patience guys. You are not forgotten. I know, sometimes a delay makes it seem worse, but I'll get ya feedback as soon as I know the real scoop.

[Harvash]

<cite>MrWolfie wrote:</cite> <blockquote>Ah, right. My bad. I thought you were on about the button pushing in Living Tombs. I now recall the gorg pit quest ~ So you can cast while on the walls now, can you?</blockquote><p>Its not a casting action - its labeled 'searching'.  Perhaps we will begin to discover the new 'Investigation' skill..lol.</p><p>Also, i wasn't baiting the hook here, simply stating my experience with a specific quest, in a specific place and engaged in a specific action.</p><p> DISCLAIMER: Since we seem to need to point this out'; This post in no way implies your success, results may vary, please consult your doctor before engaging in any activity that may interfere with your current state of health.  And, finally, Just Say No.</p><p>kkthks</p>

[Peebo]

Its the mirrors in poets palace i hate waiting for, why i need to cast a click to zone ive no idea.

[lancekortesoja]

Try casting it with a mob wacking on you

[saliorboy]

<cite>Grimwell wrote:</cite><blockquote>Patience guys. You are not forgotten. I know, sometimes a delay makes it seem worse, but I'll get ya feedback as soon as I know the real scoop.</blockquote>I appreciate the fact that you are looking in to it Grim, I really do... here it comes... BUT its been 15 days since you first said that. You couldn't get a response from some one in over 2 weeks????

[Thoral]

<p>My guess is that the PR department is trying to figure out how to make "We did it to prevent bruisers from being FD quest machines" taste better to the bruisers.</p><p>Thoral</p>

[Grimwell]

Nothing so dramatic as that. More that people were looking into it and trying to identify how far and wide it went, and then the best course of action for a solution. Considering the volume of quests in EQII it's not a small project.That said, the specific cases mentioned in this thread are being addressed. I don't have a date for you on it, but there will be fixes in the not so distant future. Should you run into any quests not already discussed that are similarly affected, please be sure to /bug them so we can get eyes on the problem.Short version: This is not design intent and a new "feature" and the problems that have jumped up will be fixed. If you find new ones, let us know through the /bug channel.Thanks for the patience.

[missionarymarr]

<cite>Grimwell wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nothing so dramatic as that. More that people were looking into it and trying to identify how far and wide it went, and then the best course of action for a solution. Considering the volume of quests in EQII it's not a small project.That said, the specific cases mentioned in this thread are being addressed. I don't have a date for you on it, but there will be fixes in the not so distant future. Should you run into any quests not already discussed that are similarly affected, please be sure to /bug them so we can get eyes on the problem.Short version: This is not design intent and a new "feature" and the problems that have jumped up will be fixed. If you find new ones, let us know through the /bug channel.Thanks for the patience.</blockquote>Well glad to hear the bugged quests are going to be fixed. Still the Original question was never answered. I would like to know why this change was made I tend to feel that SOE would get a lot less complaints if they explained why changes like this were being made. To often we are left feeling that some changes are just made on a whim to annoy players.

[3ofme]

<cite>Grimwell wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nothing so dramatic as that. More that people were looking into it and trying to identify how far and wide it went, and then the best course of action for a solution. Considering the volume of quests in EQII it's not a small project.That said, the specific cases mentioned in this thread are being addressed. I don't have a date for you on it, but there will be fixes in the not so distant future. Should you run into any quests not already discussed that are similarly affected, please be sure to /bug them so we can get eyes on the problem.Short version: This is not design intent and a new "feature" and the problems that have jumped up will be fixed. If you find new ones, let us know through the /bug channel.Thanks for the patience.</blockquote>Hmnn, while this sounds technically like some monumental undertaking, I would think the best course of action would be to remove whatever coding was put into game that added the 2 seconds. And I agree with the poster above me that said the original Question still has not been answered.

[Zin`Car]

<p>/bug</p><p>"the 2 second delay is a useless, worthless, senseless, meaningless feature that never should have been implimented to begin with as it serves no real purpose and does nothing more then disrupt the game for all players.  Please remove it.  Thanks." </p><p>Whatever it was the dev team thought it was trying to accomplish with this "feature", they failed... completely...  miserably.</p>

[Sigunn]

<p>Grimwell? Hello? </p><p>What was the point of the 2 second delay on quest widgets?</p>

[MrWolfie]

<cite>Grimwell wrote:</cite><blockquote>More that people were looking into it and trying to identify how far and wide it went, and then the best course of action for a solution. Considering the volume of quests in EQII it's not a small project.</blockquote>Well, perhaps those people should have identified how deep this change went BEFORE they put it live, or maybe, just maybe, they should have listened to the feedback from myself and many others in the TESTING FORUM as to how this change was going to break quests, not to mention annoy 99.9% of players, no matter what class they are.So, again, what's the change supposed to address and why was such a blanket change instigated against the advice of all your testers?

[Gnobrin]

<p>From what I've squeezed from this issue, it seems that this was *intended* to make universal a system out of something that was WIDELY differing.  The change was pushed so that all such things would require the same amount of time.  Yes, this ended up causeing issue to some quests, and that's being documented and soon to be corrected as soon as all of those bugs are known.  When you come across such an issue ingame, be sure to /bug it ingame to then ensure that the development staff knows of it so it can then be added to the list.</p><p>~Gnobrin!</p>

[Martrae]

What was wrong with WIDELY differing? Sameness is boring. Give me variety everytime.

[tashanin]

<cite>Breanut@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>What was wrong with WIDELY differing? Sameness is boring. Give me variety everytime.</blockquote>Because if they make some of the backend mechanics utilizing universal tools, they can give us variety of content we will see and/or appreciate.There's a big trend from SOE as of late to do this.  Examples are:1.) Skeletal Revamp (Coming with RoK): This will allow for less work to build new armor/weapon sets.  Giving the art department the ability to create increasingly interesting armor/weapon styles and effects similar to the new Epic Weapon death animation that was talked about in one of the video interviews.2.) Spell / Combat Arts being 10 levels instead of 14: I do hope that this works out, but if they can limit the amount of spells/CAs they have to balance they spend more time on making them more unique and useful.3.) Questing mechanics: If they don't have to worry about the mechanics of how quests work because it's standardized, they can potentially increase the amount of quests, lore of the quest as well as variety of the quests with the ability to introduce new styles of questing instead of Kill, Craft, FedEx and random conversation.Hopefully this will bring more variety in content after these are all in place.  The group I was with last night commented on the fact that we killed a level 70 spider that dropped the same loot that they were dropping back at level 1.  That sameness I would like to get rid of.

[Syndic]

I can't see how adding a standardised 2 sec delay on interacting with the world as a good thing.We see evidence of this is the many quests it has broken.  Example, say the 2 sec delay was in from the start, the quest person working on the ship going to the pirate isle would not have thought of the brilliant and unique idea of having to kick start the engine, it just wouldn't be possible and having to kick start an engine that seems to take you 2 secs to do is just not that exciting.I think the 2 sec delay has actually removed their ability to make a more unique style of quest.  Now the speed is out of the designers control, which on some quests con be a shame, I'm sure many future quests that could have been done different will have that very similar feel to it now.I guess if you add up all the 2 secs that players now have to wait to interact with things you could find another months sub in there for SOE.

[3ofme]

<cite>Gladius@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Breanut@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>What was wrong with WIDELY differing? Sameness is boring. Give me variety everytime.</blockquote>Because if they make some of the backend mechanics utilizing universal tools, they can give us variety of content we will see and/or appreciate.There's a big trend from SOE as of late to do this.  Examples are:1.) Skeletal Revamp (Coming with RoK): This will allow for less work to build new armor/weapon sets.  Giving the art department the ability to create increasingly interesting armor/weapon styles and effects similar to the new Epic Weapon death animation that was talked about in one of the video interviews.2.) Spell / Combat Arts being 10 levels instead of 14: I do hope that this works out, but if they can limit the amount of spells/CAs they have to balance they spend more time on making them more unique and useful.3.) Questing mechanics: If they don't have to worry about the mechanics of how quests work because it's standardized, they can potentially increase the amount of quests, lore of the quest as well as variety of the quests with the ability to introduce new styles of questing instead of Kill, Craft, FedEx and random conversation.Hopefully this will bring more variety in content after these are all in place.  The group I was with last night commented on the fact that we killed a level 70 spider that dropped the same loot that they were dropping back at level 1.  That sameness I would like to get rid of.</blockquote>While I understand what you are trying to say, I don't see the relevence of your argument to the OP's question. If they wanted to make it universal why not just have EVERYTHING an insta click instead of a 2 sec delay? I think what people are saying is that, what I AM saying, is that it is annoying to have to wait 2 secs for silly things like checking Kill count poster. I am all for standardizing a process but standardize it to one that the community is happy with, clearly this is not one of those cases.

[Josgar]

<cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>From what I've squeezed from this issue, it seems that this was *intended* to make universal a system out of something that was WIDELY differing.  The change was pushed so that all such things would require the same amount of time.  Yes, this ended up causeing issue to some quests, and that's being documented and soon to be corrected as soon as all of those bugs are known.  When you come across such an issue ingame, be sure to /bug it ingame to then ensure that the development staff knows of it so it can then be added to the list.</p><p>~Gnobrin!</p></blockquote>I dunno... I think that that evil bar should NOT be there. It reminds me of a fight. To me that is my combat art/spell bar counter and it literally sends me into shock and makes me think that I cast a spell. It would be extremely brilliant of ya'll to make a toggle that hides the bar unless  it is from a spell or a combat art or  an item that casts an effect on you.

[MrWolfie]

<cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>From what I've squeezed from this issue, it seems that this was *intended* to make universal a system out of something that was WIDELY differing. </p></blockquote><span style="color: #ff9900;">Well, nothing has changed, with the exception that there's now a 2 second timer between me and my quest updates (amongst other miscellaneous and unrelated clicky items). Whether that quest item was insta-click, or a series of dialogue boxes that need to be clicked thru ~ they're just the same as they've ALWAYS been. Your developer hasn't made anything universal, just inserted a cast timer. Or at least, that's how it appears to me. And what of harvestable quest updates? They've not been changed in line with this change, have they?Because if I was working on this "project", I'd have made sure that all quest updates followed the same rules ~ which would mean removing all harvestable updates and replacing them with 2 second timers instead. But that's NOT what's happened either. Surely because that would have been a lot of work, and if there's anything this change does evoke, it's a least-amount-of-work ethic.</span><cite>3ofme wrote:</cite><blockquote>If they wanted to make it universal why not just have EVERYTHING an insta click instead of a 2 sec delay? I think what people are saying is that, what I AM saying, is that it is annoying to have to wait 2 secs for silly things like checking Kill count poster. I am all for standardizing a process but standardize it to one that the community is happy with, clearly this is not one of those cases.</blockquote><span style="color: #ff9900;">Bingo!Why not have everything insta-click? They'll be putting cast timers on the widgets for doors next, or zoning, to standardise "everything". That's just as good an idea as the one we already have! Let's have cast timers on NPCs too, I mean we already have cast timers on "marking" objects, collecting writs, not to mention having to wait to find out the clicky isn't an item I need or can use (yet, or ever!). Let's go the whole hog! /sarcasm offIn fact, instead of this cow manure, why aren't you working to introduce group-wide updates to quests or instant respawns on quest items so that groups of people aren't left hanging around (or WORSE: LOGGING OFF!!) waiting for everyone to get their updates. That's right! Instead of annoying players with cast timers, why aren't you improving the game?!? Oh wait, I remember: that would require work!!Far better to just bung in some blanket change and SLOWLY get round to fixing all the newly broken stuff later.And all those bug reports that keep piling up? Well, they were there yesterday too, so there's no rush with them either. (I see the sarcasm got turned on again there...I'm almost sorry.)Why isn't there someone with a bit of vision who can see that the introduction of a cast timer on widgets is going to irritate and can ensure that changes are made to make the game more SEAMLESS, rather than the opposite. This kind of thing shouldn't even have made it to the test server (where, by the way, your testers told you it was annoying) ~ it should have been knocked back at the discussion level because it is OBVIOUSLY counter-productive.</span>

[MrWolfie]

<span style="color: #ff0000;">Oh and, by the way, all quests and items that were previously insta-clicky or activateable via the right-mouse button (like markable objects) are now broken for all my Fae characters while in Silvani form, since they're restricted from *casting* while in that form.</span>

[katalmach]

<p>Dear developers at SOE, surely there must be one amongst you who:</p><p>Played Dead Rising and couldn't believe your eyes that there's no sandbox mode in a game that seems made for sandboxing.</p><p>Played FFX and wished that you could skip cut scenes so that you wouldn't have to sit through Yunalesca's ten minute intro every time she kicked your behind and you had to try again.</p><p>Played NWN2 and cursed the developers of that game every time you zone into the Dock's District, they put you at the zone line which is as far away from anything interesting as possible, when there's two other perfectly good zone lines that you would much, much rather enter through.</p><p>Had your friends over to play Guitar Hero and realized that you have to play through single mode first in order to unlock the good and fun songs for multiplayer.</p><p>Played an unmodded Oblivion and got annoyed everytime a common bandit in full Daedric armor attacked you, curtesy of the ridiculous scaled levelling.</p><p>Played any Peter Molyneux game and wished that it actually did all the things you had been promised it would do.</p><p>I'm sure that some of you must have had experiences like this, small annoyances that marred an otherwise great game, and slowly but surely sucked out your enthusiasm for the game. Well, guess what, with this widget change, you did just that to me and millions of other players. I still hope that the change will be reverted back to the original, non-universal-but-so-much-better state - but if it's not, well, the next time you are playing a game and something in it irritates you, know that you have absolutely zero right to complain or even FEEL annoyed, because you had the chance to DO something about it in EQ2, and decided not to.</p>

[tt66]

<cite>MrWolfie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Grimwell wrote:</cite><blockquote>More that people were looking into it and trying to identify how far and wide it went, and then the best course of action for a solution. Considering the volume of quests in EQII it's not a small project.</blockquote>Well, perhaps those people should have identified how deep this change went BEFORE they put it live, or maybe, just maybe, they should have listened to the feedback from myself and many others in the TESTING FORUM as to how this change was going to break quests, not to mention annoy 99.9% of players, no matter what class they are.So, again, what's the change supposed to address and why was such a blanket change instigated against the advice of all your testers?</blockquote>Seconded. If there is going to be a blanket ban on anything except the discussion of issues on the test server in this forum, it would be nice to think that the devs would actually pay attention once in a while. Otherwise why bother testing at all?

[Feebil]

Guess this means we will get a new Frostfell quest, as now it will be impossible to start the stove.

[morningmists]

<p>seriously annoying change!</p><p>way to go seriously annoy your customer base, in a way that will remind them ~constantly~</p>

[KBern]

<p>While I appreciate the attempt at feeding us an answer, the whole change is needless and ridiculous and the resposne given for the reasoning behind it is a lame CSR response at best. </p><p>It sounds like something a political candidate would reply with, fairly meaningless and just some nice sounding words strung together to attempt to make it sound like there was a good reason behind this change.</p>

[Wilderbeast25]

<cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>From what I've squeezed from this issue, it seems that this was *intended* to make universal a system out of something that was WIDELY differing.  The change was pushed so that all such things would require the same amount of time.  Yes, this ended up causeing issue to some quests, and that's being documented and soon to be corrected as soon as all of those bugs are known.  When you come across such an issue ingame, be sure to /bug it ingame to then ensure that the development staff knows of it so it can then be added to the list.</p><p>~Gnobrin!</p></blockquote>Gnobrin -The "fix" to this is simply and no documentation or /bug is needed.  Revert change (because it really was pointless).  Problem Fixed.Thanks,

[Zin`Car]

<cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>From what I've squeezed from this issue, it seems that this was *intended* to make universal a system out of something that was WIDELY differing.  The change was pushed so that all such things would require the same amount of time.  Yes, this ended up causeing issue to some quests, and that's being documented and soon to be corrected as soon as all of those bugs are known.  When you come across such an issue ingame, be sure to /bug it ingame to then ensure that the development staff knows of it so it can then be added to the list.</p><p>~Gnobrin!</p></blockquote><p>translation:</p><p>"we implimented a <a href="mailto:half@ss" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">half@ss</a> tested blanket fix to correct a minor issue which lead to a larger fallout problem we hadn't counted on... but that happens when you dont fully test "fixes" i guess, eh?  Anyway we have no intention of altering this fix because it is deemed a fix and since a "fix" is not a "broken", there's logically nothing else we need to do.  Please feel free to send in /bug reports as you see fit.  The developers enjoy a good laugh every day and we seem to get some great ones now with this newly implimented fix.  Thank you for your time and a big thank you for your money!  We hope you will continue to enjoy the game as it is.  We know you wont quit over this perceived minor annoyance but if you should... oh well, you'll be back in a month or two anyway.  Also keep in mind the BWSS clause which was described quite thoroughly earlier in this thread.  I most definitely applies to this perceived annoyance.  Happy Gaming!"</p>

[Guy De Alsace]

<cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b>From what I've squeezed from this issue, it seems that this was *intended* to make universal a system out of something that was WIDELY differing</b>.  The change was pushed so that all such things would require the same amount of time.  Yes, this ended up causeing issue to some quests, and that's being documented and soon to be corrected as soon as all of those bugs are known.  When you come across such an issue ingame, be sure to /bug it ingame to then ensure that the development staff knows of it so it can then be added to the list.</p><p>~Gnobrin!</p></blockquote><p>But...<i>why?</i></p><p>I can understand making all STOP roadsigns red so they are easier to see. I can understand having all classified dangerous dogs muzzled. What I cant understand is why all herring have to be painted blue or every tall building in the world has to have a freshly cooked sausage stapled to the top left hand corner of it.</p><p>I mean while you are at it why not make all toons accessing the bank shapechange into a 60ft tall pink Ogre wearing a frock? Or every toon in the world when handing in a quest has to hop up and down three times then run around the questgiver backwards? </p><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Feebil]

<cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b>From what I've squeezed from this issue, it seems that this was *intended* to make universal a system out of something that was WIDELY differing</b>.  The change was pushed so that all such things would require the same amount of time.  Yes, this ended up causeing issue to some quests, and that's being documented and soon to be corrected as soon as all of those bugs are known.  When you come across such an issue ingame, be sure to /bug it ingame to then ensure that the development staff knows of it so it can then be added to the list.</p><p>~Gnobrin!</p></blockquote><p>But...<i>why?</i></p><p>I can understand making all STOP roadsigns red so they are easier to see. I can understand having all classified dangerous dogs muzzled. What I cant understand is why all herring have to be painted blue or every tall building in the world has to have a freshly cooked sausage stapled to the top left hand corner of it.</p><p>I mean while you are at it why not make all toons accessing the bank shapechange into a 60ft tall pink Ogre wearing a frock? <b><span style="color: #cc0000;">Or every toon in the world when handing in a quest has to hop up and down three times then run around the questgiver backwards?</span></b> </p><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>This might be impossible for a Dwarf to do while intoxicated...we could exempt them if they get out the first syllable of their name!</p>

[Sigunn]

<p>....and we STILL haven't heard the REASON behind this change.</p><p>"From what I've squeezed from this issue, it seems that this was *intended* to make universal a system out of something that was WIDELY differing.  The change was pushed so that all such things would require the same amount of time."  </p><p>What was so wrong with having a widely different system? WHY should all "such things" require the same amount of time? This is not an answer.</p><p>Grimwell? Hello?</p><p>Anyone?</p>

[Killerbee3000]

*cough* *cough* l&l quests still cant be updated with examining the proper items since the 2 secs delay on quest stuff went live.... any eta on a fix for the l&l's not completable?

[liveja]

<cite>Killerbee3000 wrote:</cite><blockquote>*cough* *cough* l&l quests still cant be updated with examining the proper items since the 2 secs delay on quest stuff went live.... any eta on a fix for the l&l's not completable? </blockquote>What do you mean by this? I've completed several L&L quests since this change went live.

[liveja]

<cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>From what I've squeezed from this issue, it seems that this was *intended* to make universal a system out of something that was WIDELY differing.</p></blockquote><p>Simply put, this change was sloppily done, poorly thought, poorly tested.</p>

[Killerbee3000]

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Killerbee3000 wrote:</cite><blockquote>*cough* *cough* l&l quests still cant be updated with examining the proper items since the 2 secs delay on quest stuff went live.... any eta on a fix for the l&l's not completable? </blockquote>What do you mean by this? I've completed several L&L quests since this change went live.</blockquote>how? kill mob, loot item, right click and click on examine does open the examine window as supposed to, but, you cant do the next click which would update the quest and delete the item....

[tbkib22]

<cite>Killerbee3000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Killerbee3000 wrote:</cite><blockquote>*cough* *cough* l&l quests still cant be updated with examining the proper items since the 2 secs delay on quest stuff went live.... any eta on a fix for the l&l's not completable? </blockquote>What do you mean by this? I've completed several L&L quests since this change went live.</blockquote>how? kill mob, loot item, right click and click on examine does open the examine window as supposed to, but, you cant do the next click which would update the quest and delete the item....</blockquote>  something must be wrong on your end because ive had no problem completing l&l's either

[Naughtesn]

L & L works for me just fine<cite>Killerbee3000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Killerbee3000 wrote:</cite><blockquote>*cough* *cough* l&l quests still cant be updated with examining the proper items since the 2 secs delay on quest stuff went live.... any eta on a fix for the l&l's not completable? </blockquote>What do you mean by this? I've completed several L&L quests since this change went live.</blockquote>how? kill mob, loot item, right click and click on examine does open the examine window as supposed to, but, you cant do the next click which would update the quest and delete the item....</blockquote>

[Killerbee3000]

and why the f*** does none of the l&l update for me then? no reason for it other than soe messing with how quest updates work....it happens on all my accounts, yes, i have run full file check, yes, i do have the quest in the journal, yes, i do examine the correct items...

[Beldin_]

Only problem with L&L items i've noticed is, that the inspect window doesn't close automatically. Else i have no problems.

[liveja]

<cite>Killerbee3000 wrote:</cite><blockquote>how? kill mob, loot item, right click and click on examine does open the examine window as supposed to, but, you cant do the next click which would update the quest and delete the item....</blockquote>That's really odd, because I've had no trouble doing any of that.

[Lantis]

<cite>Killerbee3000 wrote:</cite><blockquote>and why the f*** does none of the l&l update for me then? no reason for it other than soe messing with how quest updates work....it happens on all my accounts, yes, i have run full file check, yes, i do have the quest in the journal, yes, i do examine the correct items... </blockquote>Any custom UI?

[Killerbee3000]

nope.. no custom ui other than eq2maps... nvm... problem was that i got the freaking arrows to move the window all the time when clicking on study instead of actually being able to click the text to get the update...

[Targ]

<p>For any of you looking to do the  Claymore series quest "Riddle of the Vault", which had been report to be broken due to the quest widgets, the quest has been fixed, I was able to complete it last night. </p><p>Not sure when it happened but the timer is now 3 minutes which make it very easy.  Last time I remeber doing this quest the timers where just over 1 minute and you really had to move or you would fail. It is silly easy now.</p><p>Sure wish SOE would tell us when they fix this stuff so you will know when to go try it agin.</p>

[Gungo]

<p>Ok i am going to tell you why it was changed and why SOE can not tell you.</p><p>What this change did was fix a known exploit. SOE as a policy will never tell anyone how to exploit. They can't.Neither can they tell you what an exploit does or how it works. Just take thier word this needed to be changed and live with it. </p><p>What this change did was prevent an exploit known as ghosting.Ghosting w/o giving details on how to do it essentially allows characters to run freely throughout a zone w/o agroing mobs. Although while you are ghosting you can not fully interact with objects you CAN get instaclick updates. BUT You can not cast or use interactive objects such as doors (although if the door did not render you can pass through them) OR cast (such as the new 2 sec rule).</p><p>Basically it is completely unfixable on sony's end. Internet connections are not sollid and there are a certain amount of packet loses that are acceptable. You are given a short period of time before your client goes Link dead after a lost connection. During this time you can freely roam. There are several ways players can control and exploit this. </p><p>Anyway to get back on topic ghosting allowed characters to complete quests such as the Swords of destiny in mistmoore castle in under 3 minutes. Yes you could while ghosting collect ever single page without ever dieing or gettign a group. This of course as you can tell bypasses alot of difficulty in MANY MANY quests and needed to get fixed. </p><p>while this fixes peopel exploiting ghosting from quest updates ghosting still allows characters to bypass content. Such as people ghosting down to the last named in unrest  w/o killing a single mob above. or ghosting to contested mayong to check to see if he is up.or ghosting to taranix in deathtoll and summoning a 2 group raid to kill him. or ghosting in kos to solo the heroic mobs in deathtoll to farm relic/velium weapons back in early KOS.or ghosting to check if the rumbler was up in Emerald halls in early EoF. </p><p>And the sad thing is SoE can not fix ghosting.</p>

[liveja]

<cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>What this change did was prevent an exploit known as ghosting.</p><p>[snip]</p><p>while this fixes peopel exploiting ghosting from quest updates ghosting still allows characters to bypass content.</p></blockquote><p>IOW, the change didn't "prevent" ghosting, it only eliminated some of the benefits that could be had from ghosting.</p><p>There is *no* reason in the world this simple, straight-forward, matter-of-fact explanation couldn't be given by SOE -- unless they very quickly remove this post of yours entirely, & since you gave no specific details as to how to ghost, I don't see why they'd do so. </p><p>Instead, they'll silently, privately thank you for doing their job for them.</p>

[Magic]

<p>Well, if it was added to reduce the benefits of "ghosting" then it makes perfect sense to me.  I'm glad that SOE did something to reduce the advantages of this exploit.</p><p>I was giving this problem some thought and believe that I have a way to eliminate this exploit.  If a developer wishes to know the details of my idea, they should contact me through the e-mail address in my subscription record.</p>

[MrWolfie]

Except , if it were to prevent quest updates being gotten while "ghosting", why wasn't the cast timer instant?Why inflict 2-seconds for every quest widget (and some that aren't: did Nek Castle recently and rotating that secret door lever timer after time was driving me potty!) upon every player! I can't believe the maj ority of us have to suffer because of a minority u sing an exploit. An instant cast timer is still a cast timer, and would still do the job it has to do without annoying me more than it needs to.BTW, not only is the cast timer STILL on items it shouldn't be ~ teleporters, writ tables, secret door levers <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" /> ~ it's not on  every possible quest update ~ for example, the broken clockwork at the entrance to Klak Anon is an immediate update.and, Magical, you should PM your idea to one of the CS peeps, they'll make sure a developer  gets to see it.

[Gungo]

WRONGInstant cast timers are the same as auto updates.  In other words they work while ghosting. Even w the 2 sec cast some people can still ghost and reconnect and get thier update before they agro anything.

[Skua]

bleh annoying change

[MrWolfie]

<cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>WRONGInstant cast timers are the same as auto updates.  In other words they work while ghosting. Even w the 2 sec cast some people can still ghost and reconnect and get thier update before they agro anything. </blockquote>So, what you're saying is: the annoying 2 second cast timer that affects *everyone* still doesn't fix the problem of a minority of people who are exploiting. Thanks for that info.

[Killerbee3000]

<cite>MrWolfie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>WRONGInstant cast timers are the same as auto updates.  In other words they work while ghosting. Even w the 2 sec cast some people can still ghost and reconnect and get thier update before they agro anything. </blockquote>So, what you're saying is: the annoying 2 second cast timer that affects *everyone* still doesn't fix the problem of a minority of people who are exploiting. Thanks for that info.</blockquote>thats great news... lets see... i have to wait 2 secs to see how far im away from hunter/ slayer / destroyer title in nq, i have to wait 2 seconds to pick up a crafting writ and so on because of a change that is supposed to stop some sort of exploit but it didnt actually fix the exploit? now thats really great... how about banning exploiters instead of punishing everyone?

[Gungo]

<cite>MrWolfie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>WRONGInstant cast timers are the same as auto updates.  In other words they work while ghosting. Even w the 2 sec cast some people can still ghost and reconnect and get thier update before they agro anything. </blockquote>So, what you're saying is: the annoying 2 second cast timer that affects *everyone* still doesn't fix the problem of a minority of people who are exploiting. Thanks for that info.</blockquote><p>It fixes most of that issue, but not totally. You can still get to the area needed in some cases and not agro anything when they reconnect. But it does make it substantially harder if not impossible in some cases. It also was not the only ghosting fix this live update. There was other fixes with ghosting that most would not notice. Such as people who skipped named/content and tried to cherry pick content in some zones would get insta killed/broken gear. </p><p>Again you really can not track someone ghosting becuase its an abuse of a normal game mechanic ala linkdeaths. When your isp loses packets eq2 does not automatically boot you from game. Which is a good thing, but as you see since most updates/zone files are client side it can be exploited. </p><p>Thats your answer you can cry and moan and stamp your feet all you want (becuase at this point that is all your doing), But it really is not a major issue. 2 secs out of yoru life will not kill you and makes the game alot more balanced. </p>

[MrWolfie]

<cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Thats your answer you can cry and moan and stamp your feet all you want (becuase at this point that is all your doing), But it really is not a major issue. 2 secs out of yoru life will not kill you and makes the game alot more balanced. </p></blockquote>Obviously it is a major issue since everyone, except you, are complaining about it.Also, it's not just 2 secs, it 2 secs every time we want to do something. It's not a graceful solution by any stretch of the imagination. I think we (and even you) deserve better.

[Gungo]

<cite>MrWolfie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Thats your answer you can cry and moan and stamp your feet all you want (becuase at this point that is all your doing), But it really is not a major issue. 2 secs out of yoru life will not kill you and makes the game alot more balanced. </p></blockquote>Obviously it is a major issue since everyone, except you, are complaining about it.Also, it's not just 2 secs, it 2 secs every time we want to do something. It's not a graceful solution by any stretch of the imagination. I think we (and even you) deserve better.</blockquote><p>Actually no relook the only people responding now are u and 1 other person. Thats far from EVERYBODY. Unless of course you havent got past counting 2. </p><p>Heck if you actually read past yoru own posts there is people on this same page saying and i qoute "That makes sense". Maybe once you see past the fact your OPINION is not everyone elses OPINION. You might notice that not EVERYBODY agrees with you. </p><p>actually now i remeber you.... you where the same mystic complaining about how mystics are useless now because they nerfed thier runspeed AA. You have always been a bit melodramatic in regards to balance changes. </p>

[Asif]

Thanks Gungo for a straight up answer that explained it for me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Beldin_]

<p>Since last week my Troubi has btw. an annoying bug due to this change.</p><p>It started last Wendsday when i wanted to complete L&L Aviaks. The last missing peace was an Aviak Beak, but when i inspected it nothing happens. I finally deleted the quest, but still wasn't able to inspect it. Some hours later after compelting some other quests and zoning it worked. Later i tried to use some Bixe L&L Items .. with one of them the same problem.</p><p>1 day later i tried to finish Words of Pure Magic. Inspected the shrine in Lavastorm .. nothing happend .. no popup-window. I zoned back to Nek-Forest and returned .. still nothing happens. I saw a shiny .. harvested it .. and after that the shrine work.</p><p>Shrine in TS also didn't worked .. ran to the gnolls, harvested a root .. went back .. and shrine worked.</p><p>Later the evening i did a Court of Truth Quest, where i had to pickup a note and read it from the invent. Also wasn't able to read the note. Harvesting also didn't help. After some zoning and doing some other things i could fianally read the note.</p><p>That thing really gets annoying at the moment <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Skua]

<cite>Shalla@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Since last week my Troubi has btw. an annoying bug due to this change.</p><p>It started last Wendsday when i wanted to complete L&L Aviaks. The last missing peace was an Aviak Beak, but when i inspected it nothing happens. I finally deleted the quest, but still wasn't able to inspect it. Some hours later after compelting some other quests and zoning it worked. Later i tried to use some Bixe L&L Items .. with one of them the same problem.</p><p>1 day later i tried to finish Words of Pure Magic. Inspected the shrine in Lavastorm .. nothing happend .. no popup-window. I zoned back to Nek-Forest and returned .. still nothing happens. I saw a shiny .. harvested it .. and after that the shrine work.</p><p>Shrine in TS also didn't worked .. ran to the gnolls, harvested a root .. went back .. and shrine worked.</p><p>Later the evening i did a Court of Truth Quest, where i had to pickup a note and read it from the invent. Also wasn't able to read the note. Harvesting also didn't help. After some zoning and doing some other things i could fianally read the note.</p><p>That thing really gets annoying at the moment <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>tip : 2nd mouse button <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><span style="color: #ff0000;">CHANGE IT BACK PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</span>

[Beldin_]

<cite>SkuaII wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shalla@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Since last week my Troubi has btw. an annoying bug due to this change.</p><p>It started last Wendsday when i wanted to complete L&L Aviaks. The last missing peace was an Aviak Beak, but when i inspected it nothing happens. I finally deleted the quest, but still wasn't able to inspect it. Some hours later after compelting some other quests and zoning it worked. Later i tried to use some Bixe L&L Items .. with one of them the same problem.</p><p>1 day later i tried to finish Words of Pure Magic. Inspected the shrine in Lavastorm .. nothing happend .. no popup-window. I zoned back to Nek-Forest and returned .. still nothing happens. I saw a shiny .. harvested it .. and after that the shrine work.</p><p>Shrine in TS also didn't worked .. ran to the gnolls, harvested a root .. went back .. and shrine worked.</p><p>Later the evening i did a Court of Truth Quest, where i had to pickup a note and read it from the invent. Also wasn't able to read the note. Harvesting also didn't help. After some zoning and doing some other things i could fianally read the note.</p><p>That thing really gets annoying at the moment <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>tip : 2nd mouse button <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /><span style="color: #ff0000;">CHANGE IT BACK PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</span> </blockquote><p>Its definitely not the mouse. However i changed the Board and reeinstalled Windows on my second computer where i normally play that character, its on my second account. </p><p>So i'm not sure at the moment if the problem has to do with the character or the computer. </p><p>However .. in the end its meaningless .. it still sucks <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Mocha2000]

<p>I really hate this change... It makes me feel like I'm lagging every time I click something.</p><p>Doesnt WoW have a 2 second timer on most clickies? Maybe EQ2 wants to be more like WoW <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> ( I still love you though, EQ2... And I always will ;-; )</p>

[Mathaleus]

<p>In COI, you now get to wait 2secs for each switch in the Battery Cell room.  As well as 2 seconds to turn off the overhead monster generator when you first come in.  </p><p> 2 Seconds is TOO long.  Make it .25 seconds or something if this is a needed thing.  But really, this is just an UNNECASSARY inconvenience to everyone in the game, that needs to be removed.  </p>

[Skua]

playin my sk yesterday i was doing a "normal" quest NO HEROIC, needed to get 2 updates , surprise , the 2 updates were near groups of heroics......i used to just run click and run away...now? give all classes a form of invis (temporal at least like wind walk) and that change will be a mino annoyance...

[liveja]

<cite>SkuaII wrote:</cite><blockquote>playin my sk yesterday i was doing a "normal" quest NO HEROIC, needed to get 2 updates , surprise , the 2 updates were near groups of heroics......i used to just run click and run away...now? give all classes a form of invis (temporal at least like wind walk) and that change will be a mino annoyance...</blockquote>What level is your SK?

[Skua]

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SkuaII wrote:</cite><blockquote>playin my sk yesterday i was doing a "normal" quest NO HEROIC, needed to get 2 updates , surprise , the 2 updates were near groups of heroics......i used to just run click and run away...now? give all classes a form of invis (temporal at least like wind walk) and that change will be a mino annoyance...</blockquote>What level is your SK?</blockquote>38 why? totems? yeah ,i have always 3 or 4  in my bags...but what if no totems avaliable at broker and no woodworkers on? what if i run out of charges?  calling home ,buy totems and come back , for a stupid click?

[liveja]

<cite>SkuaII wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SkuaII wrote:</cite><blockquote>playin my sk yesterday i was doing a "normal" quest NO HEROIC, needed to get 2 updates , surprise , the 2 updates were near groups of heroics......i used to just run click and run away...now? give all classes a form of invis (temporal at least like wind walk) and that change will be a mino annoyance...</blockquote>What level is your SK?</blockquote>38 why? totems? yeah ,i have always 3 or 4  in my bags...but what if no totems avaliable at broker and no woodworkers on? what if i run out of charges?  calling home ,buy totems and come back , for a stupid click? </blockquote><p>If you're only carrying 3-4 at a time, you're not carrying enough.</p><p>I have never seen a situation, at least on my server, where Invis totems were not available, & where no woodworkers were on.</p><p>If you run out of charges, you're not carrying enough totems.</p><p>Finally, yes: if all else fails, & you have to recall home to buy some totems to do what you need to do, then yes, that's what you need to do.</p><p>All of this is aside from the fact that I think this 2-second delay is one of the stupidest & most ill-conceived changes the Devs have made yet. & yes, I think this even after being told that it was supposedly done to kill "ghosting".</p>

[Skua]

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SkuaII wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SkuaII wrote:</cite><blockquote>playin my sk yesterday i was doing a "normal" quest NO HEROIC, needed to get 2 updates , surprise , the 2 updates were near groups of heroics......i used to just run click and run away...now? give all classes a form of invis (temporal at least like wind walk) and that change will be a mino annoyance...</blockquote>What level is your SK?</blockquote>38 why? totems? yeah ,i have always 3 or 4  in my bags...but what if no totems avaliable at broker and no woodworkers on? what if i run out of charges?  calling home ,buy totems and come back , for a stupid click? </blockquote><p>If you're only carrying 3-4 at a time, you're not carrying enough.</p><p>I have never seen a situation, at least on my server, where Invis totems were not available, & where no woodworkers were on.</p><p>If you run out of charges, you're not carrying enough totems.</p><p>Finally, yes: if all else fails, & you have to recall home to buy some totems to do what you need to do, then yes, that's what you need to do.</p><p>All of this is aside from the fact that I think this 2-second delay is one of the stupidest & most ill-conceived changes the Devs have made yet. & yes, I think this even after being told that it was supposedly done to kill "ghosting".</p></blockquote>4 totems x 5 charges = 20 invis.... if that isnt enough ....but anyway the change is stupid.... i dont mind buying totems are cheap but the zzzZZZ 2s click still there.....moving a bit? let click again....agro? let click again....and wasting invis charges for a click is lame.... scouts and mages win here....priest (but fury) and fighter (but monk) are forced to carry totems : less slots in bags , more gold wasted , ect....

[Gungo]

So um why do you think the mobs are located by the update? Decoration?

[einar4]

<cite>SkuaII wrote:</cite><blockquote>playin my sk yesterday i was doing a "normal" quest NO HEROIC, needed to get 2 updates , surprise , the 2 updates were near groups of heroics......i used to just run click and run away...now? give all classes a form of invis (temporal at least like wind walk) and that change will be a mino annoyance...</blockquote><p> You know about chameleon totems, right? </p>

[Glenolas]

<cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Thats your answer you can cry and moan and stamp your feet all you want (becuase at this point that is all your doing), But it really is not a major issue. 2 secs out of yoru life will not kill you and makes the game alot more balanced. </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #0000ff;">I've followed your logic so far, but why wouldn't   0.25 seconds also work  (instead of 2 seconds)? That's about the fastest time of any spell in the game, so we know it works.   This would  force casting, thus eliminating the exploit, but doesn't break most of the mentioned quests.  Perhaps one or two quests here and there would need a fix.    No one could complain about a .25 second delay.  </span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;">The only drawback to a short timer would be that the server lag has gotten so bad that it might not be long enough in <i>live mode</i> for the mob to react to the presence of the character in live mode.</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;">Of course, server lag is game affecting issue that SOE could fix if they wanted to.    However, in 3 years it has only gotten worse,  so I expect it's not in their ability set to fix.  </span></p>

[liveja]

<cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>So um why do you think the mobs are located by the update? Decoration?</blockquote><p>That's a good question, since they're heroic mobs, & the quest isn't.</p><p>One might better ask, "Why isn't the quest marked as heroic, since one way or the other you have to deal with heroic mobs to complete the quest?".</p>

[Acute]

<p>Did you try to kill them by chance??</p><p>Some mobs are flagged as herioc but can be killed like solo mobs. MoA3 comes to mind.</p><p>Worst case u get 1 down, FD rinse and repeat.</p>

[MadLordOfMilk]

<cite>Not totally important, but wanted to address it...Possumu@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>*snip*</p><p>Had your friends over to play Guitar Hero and realized that you have to play through single mode first in order to unlock the good and fun songs for multiplayer.</p><p>*snip*</p></blockquote>Blue, Yellow, Orange, Red, Orange, Yellow, Red, Yellow, Red, Yellow, Red, Yellow, Red, Yellow, RedBYOROYRYRYRYRYRYRUnlock everything in GH2, but you can't save <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> All of 'em have unlock everything codes.