I find trade skills...

[malletta74]

...the most painful experience I have to force myself to do in EQ2.Yes I could buy spells off the broker or ask people to make them.. but I'd rather be a little more independent and make some of my own stuff.but [Removed for Content] is it boring and frustrating!Why? Why must it be so?I made 6 items before i got [Removed for Content] off from failures.Before you ask or assume, yes I know how to craft <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Calthine]

<cite>malletta74 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Before you ask or assume, yes I know how to craft <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>If you're getting tons of failures, there's a very good chance your skill has slipped below your cap <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Especially if you're a spell-making class.  It's bee a real prevalent issue lately since XP is so fast.And, just for argument's sake, not everyone finds crafting painful, lol.  The good news is you absolutely do not have to do it if you really can't stand it.The other good news is the tradeskill arts will be getting a revamp with Kunark, which may make things less painful.

[malletta74]

The failures will still happen when im at my cap...  Have to admit this wasnt really an issue when I was doing woodworking or whatever it is with my other character.TSing while on a horse makes things worse too heheOne example is that as soon as i start crafting, 4 failures in a row till I cant get an AppIV and then things tend to settle down. Or things will be fine till the end and then failures till AppIV isnt available...  thats how unlucky I am.

[Calthine]

Sage?  I ask because the Sage arts are way different from the WW arts.  Your WW arts routine just won't work on Sage.  Every time I get on my Sage I have to do a couple common combines to get the hang of it again.Crit failures are just the RNG, tho.

[Barq Bandit]

<span style="font-size: small;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Yes, each tradeskill has a different feel to it.  The best way I've found to combat failures is to assume they'll happen, and lay on a buffer of extra durability (beyond what is shown by the tradeskill window) from the start.  Crafting within each tradeskill profession isn't impossible, or even difficult, once mastered.  Just takes practice.</span>

[malletta74]

Why are they different?  All should be based on the same principles.You counter any of those thingoes that pop up.. and use either a progrees or durability "buff?" to help keep the lines at where you want them.Even if I counter what turns up and 1 buff to help durability(+10 all i have)...  i still rarely get AppIVs

[Oakleafe]

The problem for you, I think, is that you are using the "buff?" as a reaction to a pop-up ONLY - to get along in tradeskills you also have to be prepared to do what some refer to as button mashing.  That is you can press a "buff?" or a combination of them at any time, regardless of whether there was a pop-up or not.Have a read of Cathline's Understanding the Arts:<a href="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/db/guides.html?guide=909" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://eq2.allakhazam.com/db/guides.html?guide=909</a>as this explains it far better than I can.

[VolgaDark]

<p>With all due respect ..... you "may" think you know how to craft but if you "rarely" get appIV there must be few crafting basics you are misunderstanding........ </p><p>Another thing .... This game has choice of classes and/or playstyles so it's very illogical to play the way you find boring, why punishing yourself? </p><p>There is no need to craft if you don't want to, there is no need to craft in order to be independent. You can be just as independent buying what you want/need or networking your other skills. </p><p>Me personally, I totally dislike raiding. No offence to all who like it, but raiding just is not my cup of tea. Every time I tried I felt like I was locked away in a room full of kindergarteners going berserk. So I make my plat ways I like to play and just buy what I cant get myself, but in no way do I feel less independent because of it. </p><p>The whole point of games with multiple choices is so that everyone (hopefully) can find ways to have fun without feeling pressured to do things they don't enjoy. </p><p>I'm not trying to be mean, but please try to just have fun! Do only what you have fun doing! There's enough of stress and pressures in RL for all of us <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[malletta74]

VolgaDark - I understand what you're saying. I do enjoy playing the game.With my wizard I have found it hard to get A3 spells, I check the broker when I get a chance and have numerous spells at A1 or less. Hence the need to TS to be able to make the spells I want to upgrade.Oakleafe - I have indeed read the posts by Calthine and they are good, sometimes contradicting but still good. As for "mashing", one of Calthines posts actually say not to "mash" more than 1 buff at a time, this may lead to more failures, or use the same buff as it may lead to more failures. But I do use the buffs regardless if there is something to counter or not.

[KerowynnKaotic]

<cite>malletta74 wrote:</cite><blockquote>VolgaDark - I understand what you're saying. I do enjoy playing the game.<b>With my wizard I have found it hard to get A3 spells, I check the broker when I get a chance and have numerous spells at A1 or less. Hence the need to TS to be able to make the spells I want to upgrade.</b>Oakleafe - I have indeed read the posts by Calthine and they are good, sometimes contradicting but still good. As for "mashing", one of Calthines posts actually say not to "mash" more than 1 buff at a time, this may lead to more failures, or use the same buff as it may lead to more failures. But I do use the buffs regardless if there is something to counter or not.</blockquote><p>The Broker isn't the only place to get Crafted items.   </p><p>/ooc & /level chat and when all else fails .. /w all [ insert tradeskill class ] [ insert level to level range] </p><p>If you don't like Crafting or just don't like spell crafting .. give a hollar to your local Sage.   </p><p>I have never turned down a polite tell from someone asking for anything to be made.  I might give them a timeframe (ie: I'm in the middle of a dungeon) but I've never told anyone to frak off for asking if I would make them a item .. .. Though, I have told people to frak off for not tipping or not paying for fuels ... </p><p>And, I seriously doubt you will find that to be very un-common practice among the majority of Crafters on any server.  </p>

[malletta74]

ok thanks

[Lortet]

<cite>malletta74 wrote:</cite><blockquote>One example is that as soon as i start crafting, 4 failures in a row <b>till I cant get an AppIV</b> and then things tend to settle down. Or things will be fine till the end and then failures till AppIV isnt available...  thats how unlucky I am.</blockquote><p>If the crafting process has not ended, the bolded section is not necessarily true - as spamming all three of your highest level durability buffs (power permitting) can usually get you the level back. Tedious but usually possible. </p><p>I have 7 crafters (all except provisioner and carpenter) scattered between lvl 30 and 66, and certain ones amongst them get these 4 fails in a row regularly - my lvl 64 armorer being one of them - time tradeskill writs are impossible with him, yet a walk in the park with my tailor.</p>

[Barq Bandit]

<cite>malletta74 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why are they different?  All should be based on the same principles.You counter any of those thingoes that pop up.. and use either a progrees or durability "buff?" to help keep the lines at where you want them.Even if I counter what turns up and 1 buff to help durability(+10 all i have)...  i still rarely get AppIVs</blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">The +10 durablity buff is the only one you have?  Wha?   You should have three progress buffs, and three durability buffs.  You may need to sort your tradeskill reaction arts in your knowledge book to find the ones you're missing.  There are sort options for that at the top of the window.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Usually, at the start of the creation, I lay on all three of my durability buffs for a few turns in a row, to build up extra durability in case of a few failure cycles (heavy hits to durability and progress).  Then I start hitting all three of my progress buffs, switching back to durability now and then to keep it up high.  I alter the order I press either set depending on what events show up.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Yes, they are all based on the same principles, but the reaction arts can be different in each corresponding tier from one tradeskill to another.  In a game where crafting has gotten simpler and simpler, I prefer each tradeskill to have a different feel to it, actually.  Any simpler, and we'll all be using the same table, same fuel, using the same raws and recipes across all professions, and the same crafting buffs.  : (  That would suck much.</span></p>

[retro_guy]

<cite>malletta74 wrote:</cite><blockquote>...the most painful experience I have to force myself to do in EQ2.Yes I could buy spells off the broker or ask people to make them.. but I'd rather be a little more independent and make some of my own stuff.but [I cannot control my vocabulary] is it boring and frustrating!Why? Why must it be so?I made 6 items before i got [Removed for Content] off from failures.Before you ask or assume, yes I know how to craft <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>There is little point tradeskilling if you don't like it. What's the point of levelling a tradeskiller just to make spells for your character when you could be doing something you enjoy and making money to buy the spells or harvesting for the rares you need?

[greenmantle]

<cite>VolgaDark wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p> Every time I tried I felt like I was locked away in a room full of kindergarteners going berserk.</p></blockquote>:rofl

[malletta74]

Yes i know I have more than 1 durablity buff. The +10 is the highest durability buff plus its the only one thats doesnt have a negative associated ie: % to success and reduction to progress.  If im trying to stop failures, im not going to use a buff that actually increases my change to a failure am i?  Seems counter productive.

[Calthine]

<cite>malletta74 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes i know I have more than 1 durablity buff. The +10 is the highest durability buff plus its the only one thats doesnt have a negative associated ie: % to success and reduction to progress.  If im trying to stop failures, im not going to use a buff that actually increases my change to a failure am i?  Seems counter productive.</blockquote>By mixing and matching arts from different Tiers you can balance that out.  You have time to apply three arts each round; try using some +progress and some +durability in the same round and seeing what results you get.  If you're only using one art per round, you're not applying your arts in the most proactive manner.

[Miele]

Since you're talking about sages, let me chime in: lvl 70 sage here.I can easily work around the chains of failures and if I'm not taking "risks" I never get anything below apprentice 4; for risks I mean when I go berserk with progress buffs during rush orders.My way of crafting spells.I put on a clean hotbar the 3 durability buffs followed by the 3 progress buffs in this order (referring to the icon): 1:head, 2:runes 3:hand (durability), 4:head, 5:runes, 6:hand (progress). 2 and 5 have a power cost (for tier 7 the power cost is 20% for durability 16% for progress so I can't spam them at all.When I click begin, I start using 4 and 3 and keep going with them in between "ticks" (every few seconds): hotkey 4 adds progress and decreases durability, hotkey 3 adds durability and decreases success chance. The amount of durability gained and lost is the same, so on a "normal" tick, I just gain the +progress losing the -10 standard durability. Whenever the rune icon is required by an event I push 2 or 5 depending if I need durability or progress, but, here's the key, most of the time I use the progress one. Sometimes you just need that blue bar to advance instead of trying to gain a little bit of the green one.When durability gets too low (around 15-20% of the 4th bar), I switch to 1+3 and sometimes to 1+2+3 if power permits, then get back to my pattern when durability goes back to 40% or so of the 4th bar.The power using buffs are rarely used unless required to counter an event and even then, sometimes I just don't counter it and keep doing my 4+3 combo.Rarely, if durability is very high, I go with 4+6 to get big progress jumps, even 4+5+6 at times if I'm in a rush.The first thing to learn when crafting is the tempo: you need to time your 4 seconds buffs in between the 3 seconds ticks: every 3 seconds the server advance your crafting, sometimes popping an event (to counter) sometimes not. It goes usually like this: tick-> 4+3 ->tick -> 4+3 -> etc.Buffs last for 4 seconds and recast in less than that, so it's possible to always have them up when the server ticks.I always keep the "head" icon first in my chain, because it can happen that I'm a bit behind the ticks (because of lag etc.) and I push the button the moment an event pops: if "Sage's insight" pops I tend to always counter it succesfully and get the sweet +25 to scribing and the spell I'm doing completed with little effort. Yesterday I missed a flawless scribing (rune icon) because of lag which would have granted me a rare item (oh, the swearing...), but I never missed a Sage's insight.Hope this helps.P.S.: try to get a tinkerer to craft you the "thinghy" for an extra success chance, I have a +2% one and I noticed it definitely helps. Can't remember how it's called tho.P.P.S.: I have several crafters (woodworker, jeweler and soon carpenter) and I use pretty much this "system" with all of them. It allows me to get only pristines in a timely manner. I live and breathe by rush orders since they have been implemented: great exp, couple extra coins and fuel costs covered. This way I get to finish them with always 1:30m to 2m left on the timer.

[malletta74]

I did what Miele did and Im now a lvl 22 Alchemist.Not bad for a couple hours work...  i started at lvl 17.

[DizzyGee]

Level 70 sage here... I really can't add much to what Miele wrote.I have a somewhat different technique (or at least a different explanation):PREP-WORKI set up the buffs on my hotbar much the same as Miele but in a different order within the two sets (one set of durability buffs and one set of progress buffs).PHASE 1 - DURABILITY (costs power)I buff durability using the pure durability buff that costs power (the "rune" buff) and the other one that increases durability but doesn't cost power (the "hand" buff) until I have about 40% power left or the first bar is full, whichever comes first. This is usually sufficient to build up a "puffer" of durability that will last all the way to the end of the combine.I obviously counter all events, in which case I always hit all three DURABILITY buffs - the event that has to be countered with the pure durability buff (the one that costs power) seems to occur most frequently at the beginning of the combine, so I will usually get it even if I'm not paying attention, and if the Sage's Insight event comes the "head" buff is always ready because I don't usually hit it (in this phase of the combine).PHASE 2 - PROGRESS (regain power)When I am at about 40% power or the first bar is full, I then switch to the TWO progress buffs that don't cost power starting with the "head" buff and ending with the "hand" buff. I only hit the "rune" buff which costs power if I have to counter an event (again with all three PROGRESS buffs). I start with the "head" buff for much the same reasons as Miele mentioned, but not only; I may be imagining things but I've found that the event that must be countered by the "head" buff (which doesn't cost power) seems to occur most often in the later stages of the combine, so habitually hitting this buff at the beginning of the tick has saved me more than it has hurt me.If I get too many failures and my durability falls below around 40% on the last bar, I switch back to buffing DURABILITY (which costs me power) until I feel it is safe to switch back to PROGRESS (which, in my scheme, is where I regain power). You will eventually get a feeling for it, whereby an occasional rush order can still go awry if I am talkin' someone's ear off in guild chat while I'm doing it. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" /> RESULTAppIV (usually with full durability) AND full power (so I can start right away with the next spell in my rush order - I've never had to put recipes on my hotbar)OTHER TIPSRead the descriptions of your buffs and use the buffs every tick.Use your artisan's tunic that you got for completing the tradeskill quest when you were level 6. Unequip all gear that adds power (I wear the Bloodline stuff because I don't like the long-john look).End all of your buffs that add power or add to a stat that raises your toon's power.Use power totems.Do the tradeskill quest on the Isle of Mara for the cool charm that really helps.Ask a tinkerer to make that "thingy" for your other charm slot.Remember that you usually only have to type the first few letters of a recipe in the box to find it.The recipe you probably want is usually going to be at the bottom of the list - so look there first.If you are a wizard (as many sages are), remember that you have three spells that "refill" your power at the expense of your health.BTWRush orders really do give you the maximum return on your investment (especially if you're out of vitality).Have fun! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" />

[malletta74]

DizzyGee - Thats pretty much what I did but I didnt use any particular buff in any order... just mixed it up and used what I could with the power I had etc.  But I use durability to start with to create that "buffer" and then go for the progress.

[Peysel]

On my tradeskill hotbar I have my arts arranged into two sets.  One set is durability and the other is speed.  There is one art in each set (total of 2) that uses power, the other pair in each set does not.Every so many levels (every 10 I think?) you get a new set of arts, I swop out the oldest set with this new set when that happens.I usually use all three speed arts on the first tick (there is sort of a repeating sound that clues me in to when a 'tick' is starting and) and sometimes continue that until stage 1 is complete, then I tend to leave it be for a while to let power regen a little, ready for when the first reactions start to kick in.  Don't use the quality arts right at the end of a stage unless you need to counteract a reaction, the reason for this is because the main quality art usually decreases progress while increasing quality, this decrease in progress seems to have a chance to cause quality loss if you are close enough to the end of the stage.  I usually use the speed arts towards the end of a stage.When counteracting the reaction arts, I often use quality ones to counteract the worst type, and the speed ones to counteract the minor reactions.  It seems to help though I'm not exactly sure why.  I'm far from an expert crafter, but I do pull off pristine the majority of the time (except for when a little doggy nudges my mouse arm causing me to miss a reaction hehe).If you find a certain tradeskill boring perhaps you would be happier with a different one.  Not everyone is suited to crafting however, my husband is most certainly not crafter material <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[JackCrichton]

<p>Don't know about anone else but I use both the durability and the progress buff during the same cycle of crafting, regularly hit the 3 buffs each time in different combinations as my durability bar dictates, my failure rate overall (not pristine) is somewhere below 3%, never bothered to work out an exact figure as it's so low as to not make much difference.</p><p>If you don't enjoy crafting don't do it, plenty of peeps like to relax with a bit of crafting so give a shout in trade channel for what you need and eventually someone will help you out.</p>