Hero to Zero

[Necro4Life]

I can not believe I have went from top 3 on parse to getting beat by tanks.  I can not believe that SOE nurfed us this much!  Have they forgotten that the word TANK means.  Didnt know it had an alternate meaning as DPS.  I know that this has probably been brought up, but SOE you just screwed over the Necro class once again.  Now do I delete this useless class and start a tank to do DPS now?

[Davngr1]

<p>welcome to being a necro..     and btw  the nerfing wont stop so get used to it</p><p>edit* dont worry about sigle encounters  ..  shoot for ZW, some tanks can hit good parses on select encounters but necro dps is more consistent.</p>

[Metallurion]

<p>Calm down plz, how r u possibly getting lower DPS? grouped with a Troub with the same gear i'm using for a month, in any raid zone, i parse nearly 1.8k with our raid DPS at 20k, without LB or UT, will those 2 i parse 2.6k on a long fight.</p><p>Now, after the changes, we went into MMIS today, i have +260 total Spell Damage on my gear, first thing i noticed is that ... Death Rot, Abate Life, Torrential Pestillence got a HUGE boost to their DPS, they used to be 110 DPS on any fight, now they're 240 DPS, that's a LOT, second thing i noticed is that i parse constantly 2.2k now, that's 400 more DPS than before, with the exact same effort, on encounters i parse 2.7k, with LB i parse 3k, how is that a nerf?! 0.o</p><p>Just one note though, if u don't have a Troub in ur group, then yes, i can see ur problem, if u have a Dirge in ur raid, u might be able to convince ur Raid Leader to give u a trial and see how much DPS gain u get from being in their group with ur Scout Pet and ur AGI line, i used to get a huge boost from a group with INQ/Dirge/Zerker in it.</p><p>And to tell u the truth, the only one beating me is our Swashy, he parses 2.5k constant, will get him someday <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />.</p><p>note: we have 2 Troubs, that's y our melee DPS is sucky a bit, but yesterday we got a Dirge to try out our raids, so we jumped to 26k raid DPS constant, well, i might have gotten that 400 DPS more from the difference in raid DPS, but my position on the parse is still the same, the only difference is that the Swashy is beating me easier now (because of the update changes, he has always been in the MT group with a Dirge anyway), and the rest of the raid is getting closer to me (that's worrying me a bit <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />), but anyway, i have ALWAYS been top zone-wide DPS, i just don't see ur problem unless u don't have a Troub!</p><p>EDIT: Necro, i just went over ur post again just to see if i missed something, u brought up a VERY valid point i've been annoyed by for a LONG time, how come Tanks and Utility classes can parse so high, the game mechanics, and what was announced just after DoF release was as following ...</p><p>T1 DPS: Ranger/Assassin/Warlock/Wizzie</p><p>T2: Swashy/Brigand/Necro/Conj/Monk/Bruiser</p><p>T3: Illy/Coercer/SK/Pally/Zerker/Fury</p><p>T4-T5: the rest</p><p>I'm not sure 100% of the accuracy of that classification, BUT, it's close, anyway, T1 DPS was supposed to parse say ... 3k, just for the sake of arguement, then T2 should be 2-2.25k, T3 should be 1.3-1.5k nearly, i might be harsh a bit here, but that's how it was 'supposed' to be after DoF's release 'nearly'.</p><p>Anyway, u get the point, just the fact that Tanks can parse close to highest DPS classes is nuts, add to that Swashies being top DPS isn't fair, they get more utility than any Predators (i don't play either <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />), Predators give 'nothing' to the raid, and still Swashies beat them 0.o, just making the game a bit ... fun, shall we say, for everyone.</p><p>I'm not whining, just a mere concern, because i don't care, my class is top DPS, how can u whine if u're considered one of the best DPS classes in the game, it just bothers me a bit cause i wanted to get an Assassin up to 70, but i changed my mind now, especially that i'll need to raid a lot with him to actually parse high with the tips and tricks i have to learn first.</p>

[Jasuo]

Ignore the teirs people, they do not exist...exceptional players can always overcome those. If you're getting beat by tanks you either need to L2P or just switch mains.

[Sosum]

<cite>Metallurion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Calm down plz, how r u possibly getting lower DPS? grouped with a Troub with the same gear i'm using for a month, in any raid zone, i parse nearly 1.8k with our raid DPS at 20k, without LB or UT, will those 2 i parse 2.6k on a long fight.</p><p>Now, after the changes, we went into MMIS today, i have +260 total Spell Damage on my gear, first thing i noticed is that ... Death Rot, Abate Life, Torrential Pestillence got a HUGE boost to their DPS, they used to be 110 DPS on any fight, now they're 240 DPS, that's a LOT, second thing i noticed is that i parse constantly 2.2k now, that's 400 more DPS than before, with the exact same effort, on encounters i parse 2.7k, with LB i parse 3k, how is that a nerf?! 0.o</p><p>Just one note though, if u don't have a Troub in ur group, then yes, i can see ur problem, if u have a Dirge in ur raid, u might be able to convince ur Raid Leader to give u a trial and see how much DPS gain u get from being in their group with ur Scout Pet and ur AGI line, i used to get a huge boost from a group with INQ/Dirge/Zerker in it.</p><p>And to tell u the truth, the only one beating me is our Swashy, he parses 2.5k constant, will get him someday <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />.</p><p>note: we have 2 Troubs, that's y our melee DPS is sucky a bit, but yesterday we got a Dirge to try out our raids, so we jumped to 26k raid DPS constant, well, i might have gotten that 400 DPS more from the difference in raid DPS, but my position on the parse is still the same, the only difference is that the Swashy is beating me easier now (because of the update changes, he has always been in the MT group with a Dirge anyway), and the rest of the raid is getting closer to me (that's worrying me a bit <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />), but anyway, i have ALWAYS been top zone-wide DPS, i just don't see ur problem unless u don't have a Troub!</p><p>EDIT: Necro, i just went over ur post again just to see if i missed something, u brought up a VERY valid point i've been annoyed by for a LONG time, how come Tanks and Utility classes can parse so high, the game mechanics, and what was announced just after DoF release was as following ...</p><p>T1 DPS: Ranger/Assassin/Warlock/Wizzie</p><p>T2: Swashy/Brigand/Necro/Conj/Monk/Bruiser</p><p>T3: Illy/Coercer/SK/Pally/Zerker/Fury</p><p>T4-T5: the rest</p><p>I'm not sure 100% of the accuracy of that classification, BUT, it's close, anyway, T1 DPS was supposed to parse say ... 3k, just for the sake of arguement, then T2 should be 2-2.25k, T3 should be 1.3-1.5k nearly, i might be harsh a bit here, but that's how it was 'supposed' to be after DoF's release 'nearly'.</p><p>Anyway, u get the point, just the fact that Tanks can parse close to highest DPS classes is nuts, add to that Swashies being top DPS isn't fair, they get more utility than any Predators (i don't play either <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />), Predators give 'nothing' to the raid, and still Swashies beat them 0.o, just making the game a bit ... fun, shall we say, for everyone.</p><p>I'm not whining, just a mere concern, because i don't care, my class is top DPS, how can u whine if u're considered one of the best DPS classes in the game, it just bothers me a bit cause i wanted to get an Assassin up to 70, but i changed my mind now, especially that i'll need to raid a lot with him to actually parse high with the tips and tricks i have to learn first.</p></blockquote>Im curious at what your spell casting is like? granted everyone is different but ive struggled with not having a troub or a ill or a fury.. so I try to compensate with my spell order.  as for the tiers.. yeah tiers do not exsist.

[Supernova17]

There are no tiers, only what you can and cannot do. I'm curious how one of the single greatest improvements to casting classes, most specifically the faster casters Enchanters and Summoners, could be considered a nerf by someone.....You provide us NO INFORMATION, but complain about your dps. How do you expect to get help? Let's see your gear, aa setup, group setup, spell quality, casting orders etc etc and only then can you get good feedback and help.

[Metallurion]

<cite>Sosumya wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Metallurion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Calm down plz, how r u possibly getting lower DPS? grouped with a Troub with the same gear i'm using for a month, in any raid zone, i parse nearly 1.8k with our raid DPS at 20k, without LB or UT, will those 2 i parse 2.6k on a long fight.</p><p>...</p><p>I'm not whining, just a mere concern, because i don't care, my class is top DPS, how can u whine if u're considered one of the best DPS classes in the game, it just bothers me a bit cause i wanted to get an Assassin up to 70, but i changed my mind now, especially that i'll need to raid a lot with him to actually parse high with the tips and tricks i have to learn first.</p></blockquote>Im curious at what your spell casting is like? granted everyone is different but ive struggled with not having a troub or a ill or a fury.. so I try to compensate with my spell order.  as for the tiers.. yeah tiers do not exsist.</blockquote><p>I do the normal stuff, the tank pulls, as soon as he puts in his first Taunt i cast Consumption then sent my pet in (hotkey 1), then cast all my dumbfires if the fight isn't shorter than 30 secs, then Death Coil, then start the sequence ... DeathRot (hotkey 2), AbateLife (3), DeathRot, Death Coil (4), Torrential Pestillence (5), 2, 3, 2, 4, 5, 2, 3, 2, 4, 5, cast the dumbfires whenever they're up, consumption ... etc, then resume the sequence, IF the mob doesn't AoE i get close enough to put in Infernal Cloud after every 3 AbateLifes.</p><p>Finally, i use LifeBurn a LOT, if the mob isn't going down fast enough i wait till 30% and LB, cast AbateLife just after, then Infernal Cloud (if close to the mob), then use the Animist Transference macro (put ur name in the target window in that macro), if the mob is dying fast, i start at 60%, also target the mob directly when LBing, if the target changes to nothing then it's coming for u, better make a macro for ur FD, that has 2 lines that interrupt casting and queues so that ur FD is as fastest as possible!</p><p>Oh, and cast Undead Tide on encounter trash, if u feel a boss fight is coming up in like 10 minutes, then save it for it, other than that, it's best against encounters.</p><p>Most of the above is posted in EQ2Flames forums, and here too.</p><p>Without a Troub or any special buffs, u should be near 1.5k constant without LB or UT.</p><p>I mentioned tiers simply because having a class like a Swashy with tons of benefits to the raid parse higher than an Assassin who brings nothing to the raid is just unfair, same with a Necro compared to a Wizzie, if u have noticed from that tier classification (not mine, SOE's), u'll see that utility classes r not mega nerfed, but just below the 'pure' DPS classes, which is only fair, my main is a Necro, i have an SK and Illy as 70 alts, so i'm not talking while having a pure DPS class waiting for me, on the contrary, say if the devs listen to this and change it back to tiers, then i would will get nerfed, BUT then, i will get my 52 Assassin to level 70 <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, see what i mean <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</p>

[Supp]

<p>Hehe, at first I thought this thread was about...</p><p><img src="http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j193/csepics/vanilla_ice.jpg" alt="" width="320" height="400" border="0" /></p><p>"Drop that zero and get with the hero!"</p><p><img src="http://www.collegeboredom.com/top8/cool%20as%20ice.jpg" alt="" width="319" height="288" border="0" /></p>

[Metallurion]

<cite>Supple wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Hehe, at first I thought this thread was about...</p><p>...</p><p>"Drop that zero and get with the hero!"</p></blockquote><p>Man, i don't know y people make threads like this, i don't judge though and try to convince with logic, but seriously, after each update people should try playing the class themselves, and see if their DPS 'really' is lower, so what u get 48k damage on ur LB instead of the usual 60k before the nerf, will that 40 zone-wide DPS make or break ur class?</p><p>I just wish people would stop criticising everything just out of boredom, or just to have a voice, first time i saw this thread i was like 'not again', but i'm not that person who goes on everywhere judging people and trying to make fun of them and attack whomever i can land my hands on, but plz, either get an evidence the class has been nerfed, or just stop posting this meaningless threads, NOT for me, i dont' care, i'll just reply to u proving u wrong, or just ignore it, so don't get me wrong, i'm not attacking u, i'm 'advising' u, u're the one who'll look bad in the end.</p><p>Now that i got this off my chest :P, one request guys, and it's usually in added to the rules of a lot of forums i post in on other web-sites ... plz when u quote someone delete some of the words he said (like how i quote), makes it neater, and shortens the post a bit, ty :).</p>

[Davngr1]

<cite>Supple wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Hehe, at first I thought this thread was about...</p><p><img src="http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j193/csepics/vanilla_ice.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="320" height="400" /></p><p>"Drop that zero and get with the hero!"</p><p><img src="http://www.collegeboredom.com/top8/cool%20as%20ice.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="319" height="288" /></p></blockquote>[Removed for Content]   thats just wrong 

[Sosum]

<cite>Metallurion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>Without a Troub or any special buffs, u should be near 1.5k constant without LB or UT.</p><p>I mentioned tiers simply because having a class like a Swashy with tons of benefits to the raid parse higher than an Assassin who brings nothing to the raid is just unfair, same with a Necro compared to a Wizzie, if u have noticed from that tier classification (not mine, SOE's), u'll see that utility classes r not mega nerfed, but just below the 'pure' DPS classes, which is only fair, my main is a Necro, i have an SK and Illy as 70 alts, so i'm not talking while having a pure DPS class waiting for me, on the contrary, say if the devs listen to this and change it back to tiers, then i would will get nerfed, BUT then, i will get my 52 Assassin to level 70 <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />, see what i mean <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />.</p></blockquote>I can do 2.5-2.8K with no troub with LB/UT, 1.4minimum without LB/UT and no troub.  I have done over 3K regularly with proper mage group and parsed low 6's even with proper group.Im trying to learn where the group buff ceiling is for not having them.

[Metallurion]

<cite>Sosumya wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can do 2.5-2.8K with no troub with LB/UT, 1.4minimum without LB/UT and no troub.  I have done over 3K regularly with proper mage group and parsed low 6's even with proper group.Im trying to learn where the group buff ceiling is for not having them.</blockquote><p>I think the max i got in my Necro's life was 4.25k or so, was in Labs, with NO buffs what-so-ever, on a white 3-mob-encounter boss fight, and our raid DPS was not that great either, don't ask me what i did in that fight, i can't get that number again however i try <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, and yes, i got so close to it after in some fights, 3.7 in HoF once, and 3.5 i think in FTH, but i just stopped trying, hehe, when our raids r over 30k DPS i'll try again, makes a HUGE difference when ur raid DPS is high. (i simply parse 1.8k when our raid is at 20k, and 2.3k when our raid is at 26k+, just an example, and MY group setup is the same).</p><p>Btw, forgot to add something, part of the reason i said Necros r overpowered is that ... if u have noticed, 99% of Necros have the EXACT same DPS in the same group setup, it's like, if u have a Necro in ur raid u're guaranteed a certain amount of zone-wide DPS in ur pocket from them, unless the Necro is a n00b and dies a lot, that's another issue <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, but in general, that's what i always noticed, and that's part of the reason y i suggested that summon undead spell i made a thread about earlier too, checkout any other class, u'll notice a huge difference between every 2 players, or at least, u'll find n00bs in each class that can't parse high enough though they're equipped good, take a look at Necros and u'll find that even n00b ones can parse, maybe that's y this class is so popular these days 0.o.</p>

[Davngr1]

<cite>Metallurion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sosumya wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can do 2.5-2.8K with no troub with LB/UT, 1.4minimum without LB/UT and no troub.  I have done over 3K regularly with proper mage group and parsed low 6's even with proper group.Im trying to learn where the group buff ceiling is for not having them.</blockquote><p>I think the max i got in my Necro's life was 4.25k or so, was in Labs, with NO buffs what-so-ever, on a white 3-mob-encounter boss fight, and our raid DPS was not that great either, don't ask me what i did in that fight, i can't get that number again however i try <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />, and yes, i got so close to it after in some fights, 3.7 in HoF once, and 3.5 i think in FTH, but i just stopped trying, hehe, when our raids r over 30k DPS i'll try again, makes a HUGE difference when ur raid DPS is high. (i simply parse 1.8k when our raid is at 20k, and 2.3k when our raid is at 26k+, just an example, and MY group setup is the same).</p><p>Btw, forgot to add something, part of the reason i said Necros r overpowered is that ... if u have noticed, 99% of Necros have the EXACT same DPS in the same group setup, it's like, if u have a Necro in ur raid u're guaranteed a certain amount of zone-wide DPS in ur pocket from them, unless the Necro is a n00b and dies a lot, that's another issue <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />, but in general, that's what i always noticed, and that's part of the reason y i suggested that summon undead spell i made a thread about earlier too, checkout any other class, u'll notice a huge difference between every 2 players, or at least, u'll find n00bs in each class that can't parse high enough though they're equipped good, take a look at Necros and u'll find that even n00b ones can parse, maybe that's y this class is so popular these days 0.o.</p></blockquote>  anyone that comes on these boards and reads what the best set up is and gear can do respctable dps and that point are no longer noobs since they informed themselfs..   any class that is possible not just necro

[Metallurion]

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> anyone that comes on these boards and reads what the best set up is and gear can do respctable dps and that point are no longer noobs since they informed themselfs..   any class that is possible not just necro</blockquote><p>Then u didn't read what i said well enough, i said ... although some r decent equipped, they're still n00bs, and not everyone that reads 2 words becomes uber, some still have trouble 'applying' what they read, so until they do that right, they'll still be n00bs.</p><p>Look, i won't argue with u anymore, i just said what i noticed, ... Necros have fixed DPS, other classes don't, don't agree? np, we can discuss this later when i get back from my time off EQ2, that's next July (taking 8 months off for college, 3rd year <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />), lol, just teasing u <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, it's a pointless arguement anyway, just took my time to monitor each classes' DPS, maybe i didn't notice the other classes well enough!</p><p>Hope i contributed with good advice this past week on various topics and threads, tried as much as i can to pass along what i know or grabbed from other more experienced players, c u later everyone.</p>

[Sosum]

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Metallurion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite></blockquote>  anyone that comes on these boards and reads what the best set up is and gear can do respctable dps and that point are no longer noobs since they informed themselfs..   any class that is possible not just necro</blockquote>if true then we would all be a***holes from reading anything from dissolution.there is truth on our fixed DPS.. I see similar geared swashes with 2K dps spread and necros, unless speced way wrong or afk .. who can parse in  a close range of each other continuosly.

[Davngr1]

<cite>Sosumya wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Metallurion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite></blockquote>  anyone that comes on these boards and reads what the best set up is and gear can do respctable dps and that point are no longer noobs since they informed themselfs..   any class that is possible not just necro</blockquote>if true then we would all be a***holes from reading anything from dissolution.there is truth on our fixed DPS.. I see similar geared swashes with 2K dps spread and necros, unless speced way wrong or afk .. who can parse in  a close range of each other continuosly.</blockquote>im talking about game play but if you have a impresionable child like mind i guess you would be changed as a person by reading post. ..   and BTW pooling a whole guild toghter because of one or two members makes you just as much of an A'hole as them   : (