Summoners still defenseless in pvp?

[shagr1414]

When are the devs actually going to play a necro or conjy vs a scout or healing class in pvp to understand [Removed for Content] is wrong?  Not gunna go into a massive line of whats wrong, we've posted for months about it in the pvp forums and the devs simply ignore it all.

[DCarnage2]

I'm sure the Devs are aware of the problem but testing, coding, balancing, coding, testing, coding, balancing, testing =P must be done.  But there are constant changes and additions to the game which requires a rebalance every now and then.  Please be patient and don't hate on the Devs, they do what they're told to do and do what they can when they can.

[shagr1414]

Been patient for over a year, now this is totally non professional.  Summoners are the sole classes that can be taken down in pvp by multiple classes in under 5 seconds b4 we can ever get one spell off.  Every other class has defense we have ZERO.  the proposed changes to pet taunts do not work at all, PC works for a second tops, which is in no way a solution. Every update goes in and everytime we only see downgrades to our classes, while all other classes are being buffed.  Hell even in pve we are struggling to be a dps clas anymore, since hell why not roll a fury, more dmg. 

[Hella_Nervous]

<cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hell even in pve we are struggling to be a dps clas anymore, since hell why not roll a fury, more dmg.  </blockquote>what? a struggling dps class in pve? A conjie 90% of the time is on the top of our parses. I see no problem with summoner dps. if a fury is out dpsing you, the summoner class isn't the problem.

[shagr1414]

<cite>Nikky@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hell even in pve we are struggling to be a dps clas anymore, since hell why not roll a fury, more dmg.  </blockquote>what? a struggling dps class in pve? A conjie 90% of the time is on the top of our parses. I see no problem with summoner dps. if a fury is out dpsing you, the summoner class isn't the problem.</blockquote>Even so, yes, alot of time furies end up higher on parses on pvp servers....sorry you pve folks don't spec for dmg on your fury i guess.  As for pvp we are simply cannon fodder, 2-3 seconds b4 u cast one spell 99% the time your dead. Sony has to fix this and form up a reliable defense for both classes.  Not all that sure how capable conjies are but they are the sole class i can kill effeciently.

[PaganSaint]

If you can't outparse a healer on your summoner you should not be starting topics about any aspect of how a summoner is "broken" or "defenseless."

[Hella_Nervous]

<cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nikky@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hell even in pve we are struggling to be a dps clas anymore, since hell why not roll a fury, more dmg.  </blockquote>what? a struggling dps class in pve? A conjie 90% of the time is on the top of our parses. I see no problem with summoner dps. if a fury is out dpsing you, the summoner class isn't the problem.</blockquote>Even so, yes, alot of time furies end up higher on parses on pvp servers....sorry you pve folks don't spec for dmg on your fury i guess.  As for pvp we are simply cannon fodder, 2-3 seconds b4 u cast one spell 99% the time your dead. Sony has to fix this and form up a reliable defense for both classes.  Not all that sure how capable conjies are but they are the sole class i can kill effeciently.</blockquote>Yep I do spec for dps on my pve fury. 5 aa points in swarm, thunderbolt, starnova, and tempest. Energy Vortex and 8 points into critical spell damage in the int line. On single targets i average 600-800 dps (when I don't have to heal) in a non-optimal group set up. I never top a dps class unless they are slacking and most of the time a conjy is at the top.There might be legitimate problems pvp, but dps pve isn't a problem.

[shagr1414]

<p>Well since everyone here sees this thread as a PVE issue, lets get it back on track to the real problem, summoners in pvp have no chance in hell, plain and simple, whats sony propose to do about it?  Just like to know if its even on the board to be considered a fix.   Right now as it stands we have almost no defense, fear is [Removed for Content], roots are BS, and our stuns, and snares don't do anyhting to prevent us from being dropped in 2 secs or less. Pet taunts don't lock the target, PC might for a 1 second duration but a simple hotkey to target nearest pvp character fixes this quickly.  Our class defining abilites only work in pve, not pvp, we require DOT dmg, DAMAGE OVER TIME, the one thing we don't have the pleasure of using in pvp is TIME!  I remember the t1-6 times when we were actually able to pvp successfully, but in t7 right now its impossible.  </p><p>Plenty of suggestions been made about a locked taunt for a few seconds to provide enough time to get dps rolling, or CC going.  A few suggestions of making our tank pet being able to absorb a portion of the inc dmg, but yet Sony decided to allow high end dps classes be the top dogs of the pvp game and not allow DoT dmg casters a fighting chance in hell.  If it was a group issue where the class would survive in groups, this would be ok to an extent, yet even in groups with 2 healers and a tracker, necro's are dead way b4 any human could possibly react to heal.  Died plenty of times in 1 second, average fight for necro right now is 2-4 seconds b4 we die.  LAck of defense all at fault. </p><p>I'm not lookin to nerf other classes I am simply looking for summoners to have a reliable form of defense to play the game.  Right now certain classes can obtain the pvp set for the class, in 2 months time, on a non hardcore play schedule.  Meanwhile a hardcore player as a necro sees maybe 2 peices in 6-8 months.  Should be a big fat red flag for the devs that something is wrong. </p><p>Just can't figure how one of the top solo classes in game, who can take down mobs up to 5 lvl's above them with moderate ease, is a total token vendor in pvp.  Maybe the devs could look back at the eq1 necro in pvp and see where the trouble lies....the eq1 necro was a monster in pvp, yet in eq2 its the one class that Q's won't run from in any case. </p><p>Maybe on the char creation tab, place a warning to folks who play pvp versions of these characters, so they don't waste almost 2 years playing the class they love to find out its 1,000% gimped in the end.</p>

[Vydar]

Summoners are definitely needing some love.I play an Assassin, which means I have the ability to 3-5 shot a lot of classes.Summoners in PvP are a joke.A necro can send undead tide at me, fear me, send their pet after me, hit lifeburn... puts me into the orange, maybe.  Then, first hit I land... boom, Necro is in the yellow, second hit, orange, third hit, dead.  Survivability for necro's is a joke.Now on the other side... there are about two conjy's I've seen out that did really well in pvp, due to some aa spec they were using.  Might wanna talk to Wreakinn on Vox Q Side.

[Armawk]

<p>I cant see any problem with summoners in pve.. great classes!</p><p>In pvp, well, necros seem popular enough (Ive no idea why) but only a masochist would play a conjuror.</p>

[Rattfa]

1. We have a couple of conjorers in my guild who beat scouts solo on a regular basis. And not just non name scrubs, but well known personalities on Nagafen. With the right AA builds and the right spells upgraded then conjorers are a very strong, if unforgiving PvP class. There are plenty of PvP conjorers who own face, so they cant be that broken. You just need to learn your class a bit better. Yes, I know that's a common line, but it's true in this case.2. Any Summoner who get's outparsed by a Fury is...well, and idiot. I'm not an experienced raider, but of all the raids I have been on Conjorers and Rangers always top the zonewide parses. Never seen a Fury anywhere close.

[shagr1414]

<cite>Rattface@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>1. We have a couple of conjorers in my guild who beat scouts solo on a regular basis. And not just non name scrubs, but well known personalities on Nagafen. With the right AA builds and the right spells upgraded then conjorers are a very strong, if unforgiving PvP class. There are plenty of PvP conjorers who own face, so they cant be that broken. You just need to learn your class a bit better. Yes, I know that's a common line, but it's true in this case.2. Any Summoner who get's outparsed by a Fury is...well, and idiot. I'm not an experienced raider, but of all the raids I have been on Conjorers and Rangers always top the zonewide parses. Never seen a Fury anywhere close.</blockquote><p>Enough of the PVE bs, conjurors arwe seeming in this thread to be doing fine then in pvp, yet i seen plenty posts froma ctual conjuroros, denying this.  One or two or maybe 5 on a  server isn't the masses.  I don't play conjy so can only really speak of necro's. WE have a fury in pve btw that does nail the top 3 parses EVERY raid....so maybe its a freep/Q thing i dont know nor do i care about pve anymore, what i do car about is how a necro has no chance in hell of survival.  Some on venekor do roll with raids and do rather well, but sorry i don't recall seeing in the EULA that you must bring 23 friends to pvp.</p>

[shagr1414]

<cite>Rattface@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>1. We have a couple of conjorers in my guild who beat scouts solo on a regular basis. And not just non name scrubs, but well known personalities on Nagafen. With the right AA builds and the right spells upgraded then conjorers are a very strong, if unforgiving PvP class. There are plenty of PvP conjorers who own face, so they cant be that broken. You just need to learn your class a bit better. Yes, I know that's a common line, but it's true in this case.2. Any Summoner who get's outparsed by a Fury is...well, and idiot. I'm not an experienced raider, but of all the raids I have been on Conjorers and Rangers always top the zonewide parses. Never seen a Fury anywhere close.</blockquote>BTW it is "AN" idiot, not "AND" and Conjoror, is spelled "CONJUROR"  And he's calling me the idiot =P

[Uumuuanu]

<p>I'm sorry you are having problems but much like the assassin that just said bruisers are over powered because he was out dpsed by one,  you need to learn to play.  We raid regularly and even our warlocks have a hard time keeping up with the DPS that the conjuror and his pet can dish out.   If you are having problems on PvE doing damage, its that you need to either upgrade you skills/equipment or perhaps rethink how you play.</p><p>If its on PvP, then you just can't play well.   I HATE pet classes in fights. There is NOTHING like trying to take down a necro or conjuror and having thier stupid pet constantly taunt you off of them back to it with its 15k + hps.  Or having some computerized crutch of a casting pet BLAST you to death because its stats are insanely different then any player and it can nuke you down faster then you can even get to it because that same conjuror or necro put it on ranged and snared or rooted you.</p><p>No, wrong sorry,  you are NOT defenseless.  The only time you are defensless is when you don't have your pet.  Then maybe and thats a HUGE mabye.</p>

[Mildavyn]

<p>The only time a necro is 'defenceless' is when they refuse to keep an eye to their surroundings.</p><p>Make a target nearest pvp button. Then USE IT!! I have one on all my toons, and while spamming that, I've never had people sneek up on me. That button, combined with Owl and Butterfly totems means nothing CAN sneak up on you... except rangers. And that's only because they have such insane range.</p>

[Rattfa]

<cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rattface@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>1. We have a couple of conjorers in my guild who beat scouts solo on a regular basis. And not just non name scrubs, but well known personalities on Nagafen. With the right AA builds and the right spells upgraded then conjorers are a very strong, if unforgiving PvP class. There are plenty of PvP conjorers who own face, so they cant be that broken. You just need to learn your class a bit better. Yes, I know that's a common line, but it's true in this case.2. Any Summoner who get's outparsed by a Fury is...well, and idiot. I'm not an experienced raider, but of all the raids I have been on Conjorers and Rangers always top the zonewide parses. Never seen a Fury anywhere close.</blockquote><p>Enough of the PVE bs, conjurors <b>arwe</b> seeming in this thread to be doing fine then in pvp, yet i seen plenty posts <b>froma ctual</b> conjuroros, denying this.  One or two or maybe 5 on a  server isn't the masses.  I don't play conjy so can only really speak of necro's. WE have a fury in pve btw that does nail the top 3 parses EVERY raid....so maybe its a freep/Q thing i dont know nor do i care about pve anymore, what i do <b>car</b> about is how a necro has no chance in hell of survival.  Some on venekor do roll with raids and do rather well, but sorry i don't recall seeing in the EULA that you must bring 23 friends to pvp.</p></blockquote>That's because summoners are a difficult class to master in PvP. The reason that you hear a lot of people whining, is because they don't know how to play their class. Go speak to some of the summoners who do play well and learn some tips and trick, and improve your game. Don't whine that you're defensless, because quite honestly, that's ridiculous. Summoners are like Enchanters, and to a lesser extent, Bards. Fodder for everyone unless you learn all the ins and outs of your class. Play to their strengths, cover up their weaknesses. Research which AA lines work best. Upgrade your important spells. Sheesh, my Conj buddy has almost got his 6th piece of PvP gear, and that's mostly solo. He has a fairly decent KvD too. Necros have plenty of chances of survival if played properly. Learn to play your class. Don't whine because you aren't good enough.PS. Grats typo police. Atleast if you're going to pick on my spelling, make sure you post is flawless first. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[shagr1414]

<cite>Rattface@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rattface@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>1. We have a couple of conjorers in my guild who beat scouts solo on a regular basis. And not just non name scrubs, but well known personalities on Nagafen. With the right AA builds and the right spells upgraded then conjorers are a very strong, if unforgiving PvP class. There are plenty of PvP conjorers who own face, so they cant be that broken. You just need to learn your class a bit better. Yes, I know that's a common line, but it's true in this case.2. Any Summoner who get's outparsed by a Fury is...well, and idiot. I'm not an experienced raider, but of all the raids I have been on Conjorers and Rangers always top the zonewide parses. Never seen a Fury anywhere close.</blockquote><p>Enough of the PVE bs, conjurors <b>arwe</b> seeming in this thread to be doing fine then in pvp, yet i seen plenty posts <b>froma ctual</b> conjuroros, denying this.  One or two or maybe 5 on a  server isn't the masses.  I don't play conjy so can only really speak of necro's. WE have a fury in pve btw that does nail the top 3 parses EVERY raid....so maybe its a freep/Q thing i dont know nor do i care about pve anymore, what i do <b>car</b> about is how a necro has no chance in hell of survival.  Some on venekor do roll with raids and do rather well, but sorry i don't recall seeing in the EULA that you must bring 23 friends to pvp.</p></blockquote>That's because summoners are a difficult class to master in PvP. The reason that you hear a lot of people whining, is because they don't know how to play their class. Go speak to some of the summoners who do play well and learn some tips and trick, and improve your game. Don't whine that you're defensless, because quite honestly, that's ridiculous. Summoners are like Enchanters, and to a lesser extent, Bards. Fodder for everyone unless you learn all the ins and outs of your class. Play to their strengths, cover up their weaknesses. Research which AA lines work best. Upgrade your important spells. Sheesh, my Conj buddy has almost got his 6th piece of PvP gear, and that's mostly solo. He has a fairly decent KvD too. Necros have plenty of chances of survival if played properly. Learn to play your class. Don't whine because you aren't good enough.PS. Grats typo police. Atleast if you're going to pick on my spelling, make sure you post is flawless first. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>The only necro's in pvp that are successful on my server run in x2's EVERRYDAY.  There is no L2P issues here, when you die b4 you can react even if you see them coming. We don't have a taunt that locks players, all needed is a target nearest pvp PC button made and thats nullfied, we don't have evac, we do have fear that lasts a whopping .2 seconds b4 breaking, our DPs requires TIME and If we get one dot landed it will tick to max of 1 tick and we fall over dead.  Conjy's might ahve it easier, im not toally sure on them, but as for necros , ther is only ONE necro on venekor with champ title and he gets that simply cause he runs in raid ganksquads.  Otherwise highest necro atm is slayer in t7.  When a ranger can drop in almost 9k in less than a second, you can explain just how the [Removed for Content], a necro si supposed to defend against this? Its virtually impossible.  I run in groups and the ehaler cannot heal this dmg in time, our scouts locate the inc attacks and by then its too late.  Root  = useless, doesnt do a [Removed for Content] thing if you cannot get into melee range within 1 second b4 the ranger has you dead already, and hey to the guy that claims our pets are defense. Cmon over to pvp not pve bud, see jsut what a pet does for defense, when by the time it finds the attacker, the clothy is already at5% and well ont dead the next spliut second.  go to the pvp forums and read some of the summoner threads, you might find it interesting.

[shagr1414]

<cite>Uumuuanu wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'm sorry you are having problems but much like the assassin that just said bruisers are over powered because he was out dpsed by one,  you need to learn to play.  We raid regularly and even our warlocks have a hard time keeping up with the DPS that the conjuror and his pet can dish out.   If you are having problems on PvE doing damage, its that you need to either upgrade you skills/equipment or perhaps rethink how you play.</p><p>If its on PvP, then you just can't play well.   I HATE pet classes in fights. There is NOTHING like trying to take down a necro or conjuror and having thier stupid pet constantly taunt you off of them back to it with its 15k + hps.  Or having some computerized crutch of a casting pet BLAST you to death because its stats are insanely different then any player and it can nuke you down faster then you can even get to it because that same conjuror or necro put it on ranged and snared or rooted you.</p><p>No, wrong sorry,  you are NOT defenseless.  The only time you are defensless is when you don't have your pet.  Then maybe and thats a HUGE mabye.</p></blockquote>Ummm dude, pets are useless when you are dead b4 the pet reaches the attacker which is ALWAYS.  Try fighting a ranger on a necro, its simple procedure.  Ranger sees you, fires 2-5 auto and CA's at you in 1-2 seconds, = DEAD, pet had no chance to even get in range to taunt, so don't gimme your BS about we are only defenselss without a pet.  Thanks to sony, anyone can make a hotkey to prevent being locked to a pet taunt.  So yes Wrong your clueless, unless your playing a wizard or warlock or healer, which si the only classes we can engage and last more than 2 seconds with, we are defensless.

[shagr1414]

<cite>Paikis@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The only time a necro is 'defenceless' is when they refuse to keep an eye to their surroundings.</p><p>Make a target nearest pvp button. Then USE IT!! I have one on all my toons, and while spamming that, I've never had people sneek up on me. That button, combined with Owl and Butterfly totems means nothing CAN sneak up on you... except rangers. And that's only because they have such insane range.</p></blockquote>And rangers are the Number one issue here, as is with  dozens of other classes on the freep side complaining about the massive burst dps. Its a no brainer being a rnager, you get every needed tool in the world to be a god. Stealth(yes i use totems and target nearest pvp, doesnt matter once they target ya its over), tracking, runspeed, snares the list goes on, meanwhile i have a resistable fear, and a pet who cannot close range fast enough to prevent death.  Meanwhile warlocks/wizards got manashield, the chanter classes have great CC capabilites to help them, meanwhile necro's and conjies get what? Paper armor that mitigates zilch so any mass burst dps class can drop us in under 5 seconds, b4 a necro can even get a dot to tick 2 times.....Paikis unlock your necro, drag him to 70 and lets talk man, its so wrong your comparing your exp on a lvl 15 necro.

[shagr1414]

<cite>Uumuuanu wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'm sorry you are having problems but much like the assassin that just said bruisers are over powered because he was out dpsed by one,  you need to learn to play.  We raid regularly and even our warlocks have a hard time keeping up with the DPS that the conjuror and his pet can dish out.   If you are having problems on PvE doing damage, its that you need to either upgrade you skills/equipment or perhaps rethink how you play.</p><p>If its on PvP, then you just can't play well.   I HATE pet classes in fights. There is NOTHING like trying to take down a necro or conjuror and having thier stupid pet constantly taunt you off of them back to it with its 15k + hps.  Or having some computerized crutch of a casting pet BLAST you to death because its stats are insanely different then any player and it can nuke you down faster then you can even get to it because that same conjuror or necro put it on ranged and snared or rooted you.</p><p>No, wrong sorry,  you are NOT defenseless.  The only time you are defensless is when you don't have your pet.  Then maybe and thats a HUGE mabye.</p></blockquote>Raid buffed my master tank pet hits 9k hps, my taunts go off 2 times per minute unless using the AA perceptors command which is on a 10 second timer, so obviously your very  clueless about necros.  Mage pet, dps is highest of our arsenal, but if they cannot cast b4 the caster is dead they re useless that is the whole issue here.  Ther isn't enough time to productively insert dmg b4 dieing, this is caused by LACK OF DEFENSE!!!

[Raetsel]

Sorry to disturb by giving my 2ct.So you are complaining that you are unable to Solo PvP in a Multiplayergame? Why not get some friends if you have any and hunt as a party? It's not like this game is promoting soloing -- it promotes multiplayer.Okay maybe you are underpowered vs. some other classes -- so what? What did you expect? As stated above get some reinforces and enjoy PvP otherwise stick to PvE. It's not like someone is forcing you to PvP or even to use a conjurer while doing PvP.

[Rattfa]

Aaaah I see, it's not actually a 'summoners are useless in pvp' thread, but it's ANOTHER 'nerf rangers' thread.Look, if you dont even want to make an effort to survive, you're going to fail every time. Perhaps a summoner can confirm the following abilities...I havent played my conj in a while, and the AAs were changed a lot recently.AGI LINEEnd Ability.  Shadowstep.Scout pet will instantly transport to casters target. Insta cast, can be cast will casting another spell, cannot be interrupted. Not even sure if this is restricted to scout pet anymore.Distracting Strike (I think it's this one..was changed in a recent update)In PvP will act as a taunt, and will lock target onto your pet. Insta cast. 10 sec recast. Not even sure if this is restricted to scout pets anymore.So that's 2 clicks of your mouse that will stop any attacker from targetting you, allowing you to go on the offensive. Of course Rangers will still take 1349341234 hit points from you in less than a second, so you're still screwed.

[liveja]

<cite>Rattface@Nagafen wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>AGI LINE End Ability. Shadowstep.Scout pet will instantly transport to casters target. Insta cast, can be cast will casting another spell, cannot be interrupted. Not even sure if this is restricted to scout pet anymore.</p><p><b><span style="color: #00cc00;">Shadowstep is the second level ability of the AGI line, & it is restricted to Scout pets. The end ability of the AGI line is Reanimate, which revives your dead Scout pet, & is also restricted to Scout pets. The abilities in the STA line are almost all restricted to Fighter pets, while those in the INT line are almost all restricted to Mage pets; in both cases, it's possible the abilities are ALL restricted to those respective pets.</span></b></p><p>Distracting Strike </p><b><span style="color: #00cc00;">I don't even know what that is. There is no such ability in the Summoner KOS tree that I can find -- I can't even find an ability that sounds like it -- & I've never heard of it as a Summoner spell.</span></b></blockquote>

[Killerbee3000]

one of the problems summoners have is the lack of resists / miti for their pets... but... soe cant change that without overpowering them... also the lack of one shot abilities hurts them in pvp... but.. in general summoners are a class that is up there.... as a sidenote... all mages have the ability to get hit less often by using root nuke root nuke....

[Echgar]

<cite>shagr1414 wrote:</cite><blockquote>When are the devs actually going to play a necro or conjy vs a scout or healing class in pvp to understand [I cannot control my vocabulary] is wrong?  Not gunna go into a massive line of whats wrong, we've posted for months about it in the pvp forums and the devs simply ignore it all. </blockquote>While I am sorry you are frustrated, the forum rules clearly state that you may not make multiple posts on the same subject for the purpose of getting attention paid to your issue.  If this is already being discussed on the PvP forums, another thread to discuss it isn't necessary.In addition, the In Testing Feedback forumis for discussion about new features and content currently being evaluated on the Test server.  It is not intended as a wishlist forum for future changes.Closing this thread.