Grouping Issue

[Xrazor]

<p>I think the main problem is, not in getting a group, it is actually playing in one. I know Blizzard (WOW) put out server results and the bottom line was the average player, played 1.5 hours per day.</p><p>Not sure if Everquest ever ran any reports, but if that is true, (which it is for me) getting a group and getting to were you will hunt takes up most of that time.Then after 20 minutes of play people say they have to go and everyone is mad, because you never even reched your first named.</p><p>Most people I would think that are on the forums are hardcore gamers who have time to play and post, so they probably don't understand the issue.</p><p>In order for me to group and kill at least 2 named, I must be able to get a group and get there all within 5 minutes and get to the named within 15 minutes or less.</p><p>Then there is the issue of the drops, if you kill 2 named, chances are you will never get a drop worth anything....so that leaves killing named over and over, again no time for that.</p><p>So the issue is this, alot of people want to get in a group kill 2 or 3 named within an hour and get one good drop that only one person in group will get anyway (so it isn't asking much that is for sure)....how can Sony make this happen...any idea's?</p>

[azekah]

Honestly, if you only have 1.5 hours to play a day, MMORPGs are probably not for you...unless you just wanto solo...

[phoenixshard]

I'd imagine that 1.5 hour a day is averaged out over multiple days of the week where the person plays for 2-3 hours at a time. That would put it in the 10-20 hours a week that the average casual gamer has been said to play a week.

[interstellarmatter]

<p>1.5 hours.  Well, they don't seem to be doing anything to help themselves.  It takes on average 1 to 2 hours to get full group going in the 60s in WoW in order to run instances (like Mana Tombs, Slave Pens, etc).  Where the better blue gear drops more frequently.  This is on a the high populated server Argent Dawn.</p><p>Since it's about the same here, are you saying that maybe MMOs aren't for you?</p>

[Xrazor]

<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>Honestly, if you only have 1.5 hours to play a day, MMORPGs are probably not for you...unless you just wanto solo...</blockquote><p>This is probably true for me and most players.</p><p>This issue covers most post if you think about it....people post that there are not enough loot drops or there is no grouping or they don't have any way to make money or crafting is too hard....yet then people post and flame them saying it is fine...the problem is time.</p><p>The people who have no problem with drops or groups probably play for hours every night.</p><p>An if the average is around an hour or two that would explain the thousands of posts that people want more drops, quicker walk times...etc.</p>

[azekah]

yea, I would call myself a casual player...If I know I only have 1-2 hours I usually won't even look for a group. I will just look for some quests or something I can do on my own...crafting or whatever...But, when I want to do a dungeon or instance or anything that requires a group I sit down knowing that I will have to put in at least 3 hours. I guess it's just mindset.

[Xrazor]

<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>yea, I would call myself a casual player...If I know I only have 1-2 hours I usually won't even look for a group. I will just look for some quests or something I can do on my own...crafting or whatever...But, when I want to do a dungeon or instance or anything that requires a group I sit down knowing that I will have to put in at least 3 hours. I guess it's just mindset.</blockquote><p>At some points the game is fine.  When I was in my 40's, it was easy to get a group and run runneye...somewhat quicker and at least 2 or 3 in the group got some kind of drop...but since I have gone above that whewwww....everything is so time consuming.</p><p>At 65 I can't find anyplace...tried to group for scaleborn...long way to first named...wow Had 2 and a half hours in and no drops...then I had to go.</p><p>Been like that for a month now.</p>

[Garath]

<cite>Xrazor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>Honestly, if you only have 1.5 hours to play a day, MMORPGs are probably not for you...unless you just wanto solo...</blockquote><p>This is probably true for me and most players.</p><p>This issue covers most post if you think about it....people post that there are not enough loot drops or there is no grouping or they don't have any way to make money or crafting is too hard....yet then people post and flame them saying it is fine...the problem is time.</p><p>The people who have no problem with drops or groups probably play for hours every night.</p><p>An if the average is around an hour or two that would explain the thousands of posts that people want more drops, quicker walk times...etc.</p></blockquote>I don't think you can say that. What's "most" players? I'd bet that even the most casual 1.5 hour players occassionally have 3+ hour blocks that they would like to play. However if the whole game was nothing but content that could be completed in 1.5 hour slots then how much fun will a player have in his/her 3 hour block? What about 6? What if I wanted to play EQ2 for 6 hours on a Saturday? The nice part is currently there IS content for the longer stretch. There is also content for the 1.5 hour block - soloing or duoing. There are a multitude of quests and areas that can be soloed or done with a small group in 1.5 hours. A lot of them yield nice rewards. And every mob has a chance of dropping some nice loot.There is plenty of content for you, the 1.5 hour at a time player. I'm sorry you can't have ALL the content but there needs to be something for the 3 hour, 5 hour, even 6+ hour player too. Dungeons and instances are primarily that content.NOTE: Even that has exceptions. I got a group and went through the whole Acadechism instance in less than an hour. Multiple nameds, two ornates and one exquisite drop.<span class="wikiwyg_section"> </span>

[Dasein]

<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>Honestly, if you only have 1.5 hours to play a day, MMORPGs are probably not for you...unless you just wanto solo...</blockquote>This attitude is a recipe for failure. If you, as a developer, find your customers only have 1.5 hours a day to play, then you need to design your product to be useful within your customer's constraints. The days where MMOs can dictate to players how and when to play are over.

[interstellarmatter]

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>Honestly, if you only have 1.5 hours to play a day, MMORPGs are probably not for you...unless you just wanto solo...</blockquote>This attitude is a recipe for failure. If you, as a developer, find your customers only have 1.5 hours a day to play, then you need to design your product to be useful within your customer's constraints. The days where MMOs can dictate to players how and when to play are over.</blockquote>Really?  Beside maybe for Guild Wars, what game has broken this receipe?  Better yet, which has not broken this receipe and failed?  Don't say VG, because that was more bad management then game design.

[Gnobrin]

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite> <blockquote><blockquote>This attitude is a recipe for failure. If you, as a developer, find your customers only have 1.5 hours a day to play, then you need to design your product to be useful within your customer's constraints. The days where MMOs can dictate to players how and when to play are over.</blockquote></blockquote><p>Say that to the folks that are cheesed that there's a view of "dumbing down" the game (as they call it)...  Talk to the many players that want groups of NPCs and not singles.  When players have a single opinion, perhaps such opinions can be followed as you'd desire it, but since there's so many that have differing ideas as to how they like to play, to take any one opinion would be wrong for all others that feel differently.</p><p>Remember, there's others here too that don't have the same feelings as you.  Check around the forums and see.</p><p>~Gnobrin!</p>

[liveja]

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>Honestly, if you only have 1.5 hours to play a day, MMORPGs are probably not for you...unless you just wanto solo...</blockquote>This attitude is a recipe for failure.</blockquote><p>& yet, it's working very well for both WoW & EQ2, & it's worked for years with EQ1.</p><p>I'd much prefer that game designers design the games they want, & then let customers decide for themselves whether or not that design is for them. If I only had 1.5 hours per day to play, I can tell you I'd not be playing MMOs at all. Perhaps the OP needs to take a close look at his/her life-schedule, & then decide from there how to best make use of his/her entertainment time.</p>

[Xrazor]

<cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite> <blockquote><blockquote>This attitude is a recipe for failure. If you, as a developer, find your customers only have 1.5 hours a day to play, then you need to design your product to be useful within your customer's constraints. The days where MMOs can dictate to players how and when to play are over.</blockquote></blockquote><p>Say that to the folks that are cheesed that there's a view of "dumbing down" the game (as they call it)...  Talk to the many players that want groups of NPCs and not singles.  When players have a single opinion, perhaps such opinions can be followed as you'd desire it, but since there's so many that have differing ideas as to how they like to play, to take any one opinion would be wrong for all others that feel differently.</p><p>Remember, there's others here too that don't have the same feelings as you.  Check around the forums and see.</p><p>~Gnobrin!</p></blockquote><p>I guess in some ways the dev's are doing a good job.</p><p>When I was in darklight most of the NPC's are singles, which I know some people wanted...but what I don't understand is why some people get upset at this, my response to them is as they give to me. There are plenty of other things for you to do. Goose and Gander I always say</p><p>I was just in Antonica and there are plenty of group mobs there, but no players...???</p><p>The mobs are still there why not go and get them.</p>

[liveja]

<cite>Xrazor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I was just in Antonica and there are plenty of group mobs there, but no players...???</p></blockquote><p>I thought Antonica was re-tuned to get rid of that issue. The last time I was in Antonica, I didn't see a single heroic mob anywhere, & none of the mobs I targeted showed as group encounters. Which mobs are you talking about?</p>

[Demitri]

I'm one of those that feel the game is being "dumbed down" -- I recently started a high elf to check out the GFay newbie zones+quests.  Doing only quests and no "grinding" of mobs, I still leveled too quickly in comparison to the number of quests I had/wanted to accomplish.I ended up locking combat experience just so I could complete the content without feeling like I was "rushing" through the content.

[Oakum]

<cite>Xrazor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I guess in some ways the dev's are doing a good job.</p><p>When I was in darklight most of the NPC's are singles, which I know some people wanted...but what I don't understand is why some people get upset at this, my response to them is as they give to me. There are plenty of other things for you to do. Goose and Gander I always say</p><p>I was just in Antonica and there are plenty of group mobs there, but no players...???</p><p>The mobs are still there why not go and get them.</p></blockquote>Nice answer. I can see some complaints as being valid if the darklight woods mobs drop better gear then the antonica mobs. 

[interstellarmatter]

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>Honestly, if you only have 1.5 hours to play a day, MMORPGs are probably not for you...unless you just wanto solo...</blockquote>This attitude is a recipe for failure.</blockquote><p>& yet, it's working very well for both WoW & EQ2, & it's worked for years with EQ1.</p></blockquote><p>Let's not forget what is popular in the Asian market.  Lineage and Lineage 2 have massive numbers in Asia.  These numbers dwarf most MMOs.  Those are are some of the most hardcore games on the market.  </p><p>What does that tell you?  Why aren't these games that require large time investments failures?</p>

[mellowknees72]

<cite>Xrazor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The people who have no problem with drops or groups probably play for hours every night.</p></blockquote><p>...or they have a good guild where the players know one another and group together frequently.  I am a casual player in a small guild, but we've all been playing together for over 5 years now.  I have no trouble grouping with my guildies, even when they (or I) only have an hour or two to play.</p><p>Pick-up-groups are an entirely different animal...and I don't recommend them for someone who has limited time.  If you don't have a lot of time, try and find a good casual guild.  You'll have grouping opportunities coming out of your ears with a good guild.</p>

[Morgane]

<p>I find some of the replies in this thread a little... well, wrong. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> It's almost as if some of you are saying "If you don't have three or four hours per day to devote to an MMO, don't bother... it ain't for you." </p><p>I fart in your general direction! I've been playing EQII for two and half years and I'm a "casual player". On Mondays and Wednesdays I play an hour before my night class. On Tuesday nights I'll probably play from the time I get home from work around 6pm until I go to bed around 10pm or so. Thursdays I'm not at home and don't play at all. A majority of my play time usually happens on the weekends... I manage to play for several hours (maybe a total of 8 aprox?) but not EVERY weekend, as I also like to camp and hike and watch football and drink beer and play poker with my buddies, blah blah blah. </p><p>So I'm averaging around 15 hours of playtime per week. I'd say that puts me in the "casual gamer" category. After two and a half years I STILL don't have a level 70 toon. LOL But then, I play for the fun of it.... I don't look at it as a "job". I play on my terms... when I want to. I looked for a guild that was ok with this. I generally will MAKE time when there is a guild event scheduled like groups for HQ's and stuff but it's a laid back guild and caters to my laid back play style.</p><p>So would you guys say to me... "MMO's aren't for you?" </p><p>Just curious, so don't flame me all to hell please. </p><p>Morg</p>

[liveja]

<cite>Morgane@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So would you guys say to me... "MMO's aren't for you?" </p></blockquote><p>I don't know. Are you complaining, or are you telling us how you manage to maximize what little game time you have?</p>

[azekah]

<cite>Morgane@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just curious, so don't flame me all to hell please. <p>Morg</p></blockquote>you admitted in your post you at times have up to 4+ hours to play...

[Morgane]

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Morgane@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So would you guys say to me... "MMO's aren't for you?" </p></blockquote><p>I don't know. Are you complaining, or are you telling us how you manage to maximize what little game time you have?</p></blockquote><p>Niether. Perhaps you need to read that again. It's simple, especially for smart guy like you.  However, to further simplify it for you, a "Yes" or a "No" will do. Or, if you find the question redunant or beneath you, simply refrain from responding. </p>

[Morgane]

<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Morgane@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just curious, so don't flame me all to hell please. <p>Morg</p></blockquote>you admitted in your post you at times have up to 4+ hours to play...</blockquote><p>Uh... right. Is there a point there somewhere?</p><p>I mean, maybe I'm incorrect in assuming that 15 to 20 hours of play time per week is "casual"? I really don't know. MY point was that, in my opinion, it's silly for someone to say that if you only have 1.5 hours a day to play an MMO, then MMO's aren't for you. </p>

[azekah]

<cite>Morgane@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Uh... right. Is there a point there somewhere?<p>I mean, maybe I'm incorrect in assuming that 15 to 20 hours of play time per week is "casual"? I really don't know. MY point was that, in my opinion, it's silly for someone to say that if you only have 1.5 hours a day to play an MMO, then MMO's aren't for you.</p></blockquote>Maybe you should read the OP again

[liveja]

<cite>Morgane@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Morgane@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So would you guys say to me... "MMO's aren't for you?" </p></blockquote><p>I don't know. Are you complaining, or are you telling us how you manage to maximize what little game time you have?</p></blockquote><p>Niether. Perhaps you need to read that again. It's simple, especially for smart guy like you.  However, to further simplify it for you, a "Yes" or a "No" will do. Or, if you find the question redunant or beneath you, simply refrain from responding. </p></blockquote><p>Wow. Just freekin' WOW.</p><p>I try to ask a question seriously, honestly, & politely, & I get pure snark in response.</p><p>/rude</p>

[Morgane]

<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Morgane@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Uh... right. Is there a point there somewhere? <p>I mean, maybe I'm incorrect in assuming that 15 to 20 hours of play time per week is "casual"? I really don't know. MY point was that, in my opinion, it's silly for someone to say that if you only have 1.5 hours a day to play an MMO, then MMO's aren't for you.</p></blockquote><p>Maybe you should read the OP again</p></blockquote><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> The OP was NOT who I was responding to here, as my first response indicates. Are you trying to start a fight here or do you have an actual "opinion" about the subject? </p>

[azekah]

I was suggesting that if you only have 1.5 hour blocks to play this game, its probably not for you, because you will have serious issues doing group content.You said you have longer amounts of time to play than that, so I would not encourage you to leave.If you read all my posts in this thread you would understand my point better.

[Morgane]

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Morgane@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Morgane@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So would you guys say to me... "MMO's aren't for you?" </p></blockquote><p>I don't know. Are you complaining, or are you telling us how you manage to maximize what little game time you have?</p></blockquote><p>Niether. Perhaps you need to read that again. It's simple, especially for smart guy like you.  However, to further simplify it for you, a "Yes" or a "No" will do. Or, if you find the question redunant or beneath you, simply refrain from responding. </p></blockquote><p>Wow. Just freekin' WOW.</p><p>I try to answer a question seriously, honestly, & politely, & I get pure snark in response.</p><p>/rude</p></blockquote><p>Hmm. Perhaps I misunderstood. Or maybe you and I differ on the meaning of "polite". I'll try again... did you have an actual answer or opinion to my original question? If you did, maybe I accidentally missed it somewhere...</p>

[Morgane]

<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was suggesting that if you only have 1.5 hour blocks to play this game, its probably not for you, because you will have serious issues doing group content.You said you have longer amounts of time to play than that, so I would not encourage you to leave.If you read all my posts in this thread you would understand my point better.</blockquote><p>Ah! NOW we're getting somewhere. You've answered my question. I do indeed now understand your point better. </p><p>See how easy that was? </p>

[azekah]

<cite>Morgane@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Ah! NOW we're getting somewhere. You've answered my question. I do indeed now understand your point better. <p>See how easy that was? </p></blockquote>Would have been easier if you read the thread <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[liveja]

<cite>Morgane@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>did you have an actual answer or opinion to my original question? If you did, maybe I accidentally missed it somewhere...</blockquote><p>If you were complaining, then I would have said, "Yes, I'm sorry, but MMOs aren't for you." </p><p>If you were instead explaining how you maximize your limited play time, then I would have said, "Hurrah! Please give some tips to the others who are complaining, as to how they can maximize their playing time & get the most out of their 1.5 hours a night."</p><p>I didn't think you were complaining, but I wasn't sure, hence, my question.</p>

[Morgane]

<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Morgane@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Ah! NOW we're getting somewhere. You've answered my question. I do indeed now understand your point better. <p>See how easy that was? </p></blockquote>Would have been easier if you read the thread <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>I did. And I commented. And you didn't answer the question until three or four posts later. Once you answered the question we got it all cleared up. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Morgane]

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Morgane@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>did you have an actual answer or opinion to my original question? If you did, maybe I accidentally missed it somewhere...</blockquote><p>If you were complaining, then I would have said, "Yes, I'm sorry, but MMOs aren't for you." </p><p>If you were instead explaining how you maximize your limited play time, then I would have said, "Hurrah! Please give some tips to the others who are complaining, as to how they can maximize their playing time & get the most out of their 1.5 hours a night."</p><p>I didn't think you were complaining, but I wasn't sure, hence, my question.</p></blockquote><p>Cool deal. No, I wasn't complaining at all. I think I was more or less trying point out that just because a person doesn't have 4 or 5 hours a night to devote to a computer game, that doesn't mean they can't casually enjoy the game. But of course they'll likely have issues at times with grouping and such. I think casual gamers can enjoy MMO's... especially EQII, which has a lot of solo/duo content.  </p>

[Gromph]

<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>Honestly, if you only have 1.5 hours to play a day, MMORPGs are probably not for you...unless you just wanto solo...</blockquote>This attitude is a recipe for failure. If you, as a developer, find your customers only have 1.5 hours a day to play, then you need to design your product to be useful within your customer's constraints. The days where MMOs can dictate to players how and when to play are over.</blockquote>Really?  Beside maybe for Guild Wars, what game has broken this receipe?  Better yet, which has not broken this receipe and failed?  Don't say VG, because that was more bad management then game design.</blockquote><p>Ah, Vanguard, wasn't it the Vanguard fanbois who said "Maybe this game is not for you"?</p><p>And history shows us that they were indeed right. One can really wonder who that game actually was for. (The only entusiastic player I can remember was a guild leader for a guild on the ffa server that had as speciality to gank people going to the bank).</p>

[greenmantle]

<cite>Xrazor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I think the main problem is, not in getting a group, it is actually playing in one. I know Blizzard (WOW) put out server results and the bottom line was the average player, played 1.5 hours per day.</p><p>Not sure if Everquest ever ran any reports, but if that is true, (which it is for me) getting a group and getting to were you will hunt takes up most of that time.Then after 20 minutes of play people say they have to go and everyone is mad, because you never even reched your first named.</p><p>Most people I would think that are on the forums are hardcore gamers who have time to play and post, so they probably don't understand the issue.</p><p>In order for me to group and kill at least 2 named, I must be able to get a group and get there all within 5 minutes and get to the named within 15 minutes or less.</p><p>Then there is the issue of the drops, if you kill 2 named, chances are you will never get a drop worth anything....so that leaves killing named over and over, again no time for that.</p><p>So the issue is this, alot of people want to get in a group kill 2 or 3 named within an hour and get one good drop that only one person in group will get anyway (so it isn't asking much that is for sure)....how can Sony make this happen...any idea's?</p></blockquote><p>Two points i guess, not every one sees the game as killing nameds for phat loot, there are some great quest lines and i would say now plenty of content that can be soloed 1/2 and hour to kill log in and do a solo writ, repair restock , shop and get ready for the day you have a few hours. </p><p>the second and perhaps more usefull pint is pick up groups are often a pain. There are some great ones but in general people drop out/ dont know what they are doing or are the people no one that knows them will group with.  The best way as a few have sugested is a good guild or even better a few friends with similar time limits. I have often asked friends ok on Tuesday ill be on at  xx time can we hit xxx dungeon  i need  for a quest. That way every one is there arround the same time know where they are going and  how long it will take. </p><p>With friends and a little planning its amazing what can be done in an hour. </p>

[tass]

hey vanguard could of been good if every single person in charge hadn't either been the biggest cheap [Removed for Content] in the world on spending. And if the people in charge of the developers or anyone doing world wasn't one of jerry's [Removed for Content] kids.A lesson learned games aren't just the games themselves. If you have pathetic managers you have a pathetic game.

[EtoilePirate]

<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>yea, I would call myself a casual player...If I know I only have 1-2 hours I usually won't even look for a group. I will just look for some quests or something I can do on my own...crafting or whatever...But, when I want to do a dungeon or instance or anything that requires a group I sit down knowing that I will have to put in at least 3 hours. I guess it's just mindset.</blockquote>This is what I like about EQ2.  I log in almost every night for twenty minutes or an hour, just to check my broker, maybe craft a couple of things, or finish up one quick solo quest.  Then on a Sunday if I really want to get in-game stuff done I can plonk myself down at the PC for 12 hours.  That still comes out to 20 hours a week and I've still done groups and raids -- but that 1-2 hours on a random Wednesday after work is still useful.

[KBern]

Yep, I mainly play to raid now, but even on the off times if I log in for 30 mins to 1 hour and get 10% or so of a level goofing around soloing....I am still progressing with my characters.