Possible issue with Sage skill up rate.

[Vatec]

I made a big push this weekend to get all my crafters to 30 or higher and to use up their vitality.  So I loaded up on belladonna roots and carbonite and started doing timed writs.The Armorer and the Weaponsmith were annoying.  Durability dropped precipitously and durability buffs frequently failed five or six times in a row.  The Jeweler was cake by comparison.  One time she had three durability buffs fail in a row.  She finished that writ with less than a minute left on the clock and that was the closest she came to failure in three levels.Historically, I've never had any problems with my Tailor or Carpenter either.  Provisioner and Woodworker have always been OK, with only a few missteps here and there.The big problem arose with my Sage.  She simply can't do timed writs.  She gets failure after failure no matter what combinations of buffs she uses.  And this is perfectly understandable because her Scribing skill is stuck at 115/145.  For the last 9 levels she's only gained about 20 points in skill.  My other 8 crafters, even the ones who have difficulties and strings of failures, still manage to keep their skill within 5 points of the cap.  Some cap out on the first writ after levelling, some only cap a few minutes before they reach the next level.  But they're never worse off than 5 below cap.The Sage, OTOH, simply can't seem to skill up.  It doesn't matter how many spells she writes, what buffs she uses, or whether she successfully counters events, points remain rarer than Ebon Clusters.  The problem is, I don't know if it's just her or if it's a problem that other Sages have experienced.  But in either case, it's mighty annoying.  When crafting with her I literally find myself cursing at the screen every time she experiences 8 or 9 failures in a row.  No other crafter is even half as frustrating.Anyone else have this experience with their Sage?

[MullenSkywatcher]

You've probably already checked this, but I find if I'm not using the highest sets of tradeskill counters, the skillups come very slowly.

[Calthine]

<cite>MullenSkywatcher wrote:</cite><blockquote>You've probably already checked this, but I find if I'm not using the highest sets of tradeskill counters, the skillups come very slowly.</blockquote>Specifically, the white-con arts (as you level up the names on old arts will go grey).  This is important because as you get higher in level the Arts take longer to grey out.

[Vatec]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>MullenSkywatcher wrote:</cite><blockquote>You've probably already checked this, but I find if I'm not using the highest sets of tradeskill counters, the skillups come very slowly.</blockquote>Specifically, the white-con arts (as you level up the names on old arts will go grey).  This is important because as you get higher in level the Arts take longer to grey out.</blockquote>I did a casual check and didn't see any more grey arts on my Sage's bar than on any of my other crafters' bars.  But since I had a 5 hour drink burning I didn't investigate too deeply.In any case, I usually organize my arts based on which ones are most effective, independent of level.  There are usually enough white ones for skill ups.  Needless to say, I'm looking forward to Domino's planned rationalization of crafting arts.  It's just silly when I have a 15 progress for 57 power that's gone grey and is supposed to be replaced by a 15 progress for 94 power art.  I think that was on my Alchemist, but I could be mistaken.  They're all blending together in my mind at the moment.  Except for the Sage, of course ;^)In the meantime, I'll definitely review my Sage's arts.  Fortunately she's 29 now so she'll be getting a new set of arts in a day or two.  Still, I'm not sure how she's supposed to catch up.  I may have to just grind one green spell or just live with doing untimed writs for the foreseeable future :^P

[Calthine]

<cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>In the meantime, I'll definitely review my Sage's arts.  Fortunately she's 29 now so she'll be getting a new set of arts in a day or two.  Still, I'm not sure how she's supposed to catch up.  I may have to just grind one green spell or just live with doing untimed writs for the foreseeable future :^P</blockquote><u><b>Calthine's Tried-and-True Method for Catching Your Skill Up to Your Cap:</b></u>1.  Find your most current, white-con Arts and put them where you can get to them.  For this you will only use white-con arts, regardless of your usual preference.2.  Find a cheap recipe.  Like T1 coffee.  Level does not matter, but cheap does.  Lay in a few supplies (probably won't even take a half a stack unless you're 100's of points behind).3.  Start that cheap recipe, and spam those white-con arts three to every round - here's the important bit - <b><i>with total disregard for the outcome</i></b>.  You may fail and lose fuel, which is why we're doing T1 coffee.  Don't worry about it, we're only concerned with skillups.4.  Rinse and repeat until your skill catches your cap.It should go up rather quickly, since every time you use your non-grey arts you have a chance of a skillup.To keep your skill at it's cap, every time you ding (when your cap goes up five points), incorporate white-con arts into your routine for a couple of combines until you get those five skillups.  It might take you a whole two combines, and again, the level of the recipe doesn't have anything to do with it.I look forward to Kuanrk and never ever having to explain this to frustrated crafters again.  It's been the last remaining steep learning curve once you learn to apply your arts for a while now.

[Tarlok]

T4 you get durability buffs or at least any ts class I have ever goten to that level has.  Once you get those buffs you just spam the 2 t4 ones that don't use power, and occasionaly tap the power using progress buff.  You will watch your skill increase easily.

[Vatec]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>In the meantime, I'll definitely review my Sage's arts.  Fortunately she's 29 now so she'll be getting a new set of arts in a day or two.  Still, I'm not sure how she's supposed to catch up.  I may have to just grind one green spell or just live with doing untimed writs for the foreseeable future :^P</blockquote><u><b>Calthine's Tried-and-True Method for Catching Your Skill Up to Your Cap:</b></u>1.  Find your most current, white-con Arts and put them where you can get to them.  For this you will only use white-con arts, regardless of your usual preference.2.  Find a cheap recipe.  Like T1 coffee.  Level does not matter, but cheap does.  Lay in a few supplies (probably won't even take a half a stack unless you're 100's of points behind).3.  Start that cheap recipe, and spam those white-con arts three to every round - here's the important bit - <b><i>with total disregard for the outcome</i></b>.  You may fail and lose fuel, which is why we're doing T1 coffee.  Don't worry about it, we're only concerned with skillups.4.  Rinse and repeat until your skill catches your cap.It should go up rather quickly, since every time you use your non-grey arts you have a chance of a skillup.To keep your skill at it's cap, every time you ding (when your cap goes up five points), incorporate white-con arts into your routine for a couple of combines until you get those five skillups.  It might take you a whole two combines, and again, the level of the recipe doesn't have anything to do with it.I look forward to Kuanrk and never ever having to explain this to frustrated crafters again.  It's been the last remaining steep learning curve once you learn to apply your arts for a while now.</blockquote>Thanks for the tips.  I'll definitely give that a shot once she hits 30.I still find it very bizarre that of the nine crafters and over 200 levels of crafting experience, this is the only character this has happened on :^P

[SnoesieQ]

<p>Its really strange how different characters seem to tradeskill differently. Every tailor I personally know have problems doing the timed writ, at least up to lvl 30/40-ish. But I see on the forums that not everyone has this problem with their tailor. Its really strange.</p><p>As for sage, my SO have a sage who has same problems as you have, regardless of having maxed out skills, and regardless of if he is crafting or if I (smug when I started, blushing after having crafted for a bit) am "showing him how its done". </p><p>On the other hand, my own sage has no problems.</p><p>Anyway. I had problems getting skillups for my sage (she is only 30 now so maybe it will change). What I did was just craft blue recipes, I got the most skillups for recipes that were 3 or 4 levels lower, less skillups for 4+ and for some reason, pretty much NO skillups whatsoever for same level recipes. I got to 25 with all pristines but something like 3 skillups from 20 at which point I got desperate. Luckily when she was 26 she had caught up and I continued to just do blue recipes. Its not as fast, but really - sage is so easy to level anyway, its a luxury problem to have. I however didn't change my way of crafting at all. My other crafters get skillups from my normal crafting without problems, and it seems my sage did too with the blue recipes. And its not just because I craft more things either, I got 5 levels of skills on just a handful of recipes, the skillups just came with almost every cycle once I did lower lvl recipes.</p><p>For what its worth. I wonder if there is some hidden modifiers somewhere or why people have such different experiences with different characters.</p>

[Te'ana]

I have to agree about the Sage issue because I had the same problem. It seems to correct itself in the next tier though. Being aware of needing to use the latest skill set to move up I did what SnoosieQ did and worked with blue con recipes to get past this problem. Using blue cons is a variant of Calthine's method which relies on the fact that lower level recipes are not only cheaper to skill up with, but more apt to ding than white con recipes.

[netglen]

I got my Sage to L.50 on Saturday and here is what I've been doing for the past 30 levels.The Prep~~~~~~* Craft up on an alt or get the best drink for your level and equip it. Make sure to consume it if you already have another drink buff already on.* I take off all my gear, rings and weapons. Toss on some non-stat clothes if you care what you look like.* Pick a a wooden totem that buffs you with mana regen. At your level probably a Totem of the Serpent. 30 minute mana regen buff.* Make sure you have a ton of raw materials. Plan ahead and go picking for a few hours so you have a huge supply.* Make sure you purchase the next few levels of Sage books from the NPC. It stinks having to leave the area when you get the awarded Sage skill buff that sometimes gets casted upon you. You leave the tradeskill area, it vanishes.* Scroll down to a fresh hotbar and open up your Knowledge tradeskills window. Click on the filter option on the top right. You might want to choose filter by category and level. Sit back and read each Sage skill and note the level and how it'll affect the tradeskill process. I concentrate on "Durability Increase" and "Advancing" the process. On my hotbar, 1/2/3 are setup with the three tradeskill buffs that increase the durability of the scroll. Hotbar numbers 8/9/0 are setup with advancing the tradeskill session. Don't be afraid to mix different level buffs.* I also bought and equip the Gnomish devices that adds +2% and +1% success rate towards Sage creations.* Put on some comfortable music or TV show but not loud enough that you'll miss the tradeskill progression sound effects.The Drill~~~~~* Time to work on your Sage skill. Before doing Rush orders, I make Apprentice-IVs of each new spell that I have. This gives a tradeskill bonus to each "first made" Apprentice-IVs that you made. Also by doing this you also get to exercise your Sage skills and hopefully max them out before doing rush orders.* Personally I take it real easy with the first progression bar on top, the Apprentice-I at the top. I found this bar to be hyper-sensitive if you try to issue any speed or advancing buffs. I only use Durability increase buffs and even then I only use 2 buffs. I'll come back later tonight and show the details in my hotbars, but the two durability buffs I use don't eat away at my mana pool. Well until the first bar is complete, I usually keep the durability up at 99%-100%.* Once I reach to the second bar, I start concentrating on the progression/speed buffs. This is when I issue three buffs and try to maintain them. The progress bar should be flying across the screen and jumping into the next bar. It should only take 3-5 tradeskill "pulses" to get to the last bar or even a fast complete.* Sometimes the durability is falling to fast and by the time I get to the last bar, it's in danger of possibly falling a level. I just switch back to the durability buffs and boost it up a few pulses.* By the time that I've made my first App-IV for each new spell, my experience towards next level should be at 50%-60% or even more depending if I get extra XP bonuses for vitality. Also your new Sage skills should be maxed out.It's All About the Speed~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~* Make sure you have all your materials at hand.* Buy 100 incense.* Make sure you have the best drink up and the totem buff running.* I choose talented rush order for the highest tier. * Get your rush order and jump over the side and start running to the scribing desk.* Use the search feature to quickly find the scrolls that you need to make.* Use the scroll creation technique mentioned above. Don't rush through the first progression bar.* At the end of the session, I usually have 2.5mins - 3.25mins left to spare.I hope that helps. I've been using this technique from L.20-50. I apologize in advance if I'm posting any misinformation. I'll try to stop by tonight or tomorrow and post my shortcut bar.

[StormCinder]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>In the meantime, I'll definitely review my Sage's arts.  Fortunately she's 29 now so she'll be getting a new set of arts in a day or two.  Still, I'm not sure how she's supposed to catch up.  I may have to just grind one green spell or just live with doing untimed writs for the foreseeable future :^P</blockquote><u><b>Calthine's Tried-and-True Method for Catching Your Skill Up to Your Cap:</b></u>1.  Find your most current, white-con Arts and put them where you can get to them.  For this you will only use white-con arts, regardless of your usual preference.2.  Find a cheap recipe.  Like T1 coffee.  Level does not matter, but cheap does.  Lay in a few supplies (probably won't even take a half a stack unless you're 100's of points behind).3.  Start that cheap recipe, and spam those white-con arts three to every round - here's the important bit - <b><i>with total disregard for the outcome</i></b>.  You may fail and lose fuel, which is why we're doing T1 coffee.  Don't worry about it, we're only concerned with skillups.4.  Rinse and repeat until your skill catches your cap.It should go up rather quickly, since every time you use your non-grey arts you have a chance of a skillup.To keep your skill at it's cap, every time you ding (when your cap goes up five points), incorporate white-con arts into your routine for a couple of combines until you get those five skillups.  It might take you a whole two combines, and again, the level of the recipe doesn't have anything to do with it.I look forward to Kuanrk and never ever having to explain this to frustrated crafters again.  It's been the last remaining steep learning curve once you learn to apply your arts for a while now.</blockquote><p>This is <span style="color: #ff0000;"><i>SAGE </i></span>advice.  Started doing this a couple weeks ago and things are much <i><b>MUCH</b></i> smoother for my sage.  Haven't tried it with my other TSers yet.</p><p>SC</p><p>EDIT: I get 9% per new item created grinding, so haven't bothererd with writs yet (currently @ lvl30ish)</p>

[Jesdyr]

I don't do rush orders till 30. I find that the XP bonus is too small to even make much difference between 20-30. It seems to be much faster to just grind out the levels until 30 and then start up on rush orders. At 30 you get new durability buffs that tend to make things much easier. Even in the 30s it can be faster to level by grinding, but I like to do writs for the SP and faction. For a Sage leveling should be very easy due to the massive items you can make.

[Krystara]

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't do rush orders till 30. I find that the XP bonus is too small to even make much difference between 20-30. It seems to be much faster to just grind out the levels until 30 and then start up on rush orders. At 30 you get new durability buffs that tend to make things much easier. Even in the 30s it can be faster to level by grinding, but I like to do writs for the SP and faction. For a Sage leveling should be very easy due to the massive items you can make. </blockquote><p>You know, I never do rush orders.  I absolutely loathe and detest them.  I can do them on my provisioner, but my jeweler has never once succeeded and she's in Kelethin literally two steps away from the table.  I hate hate hate hate hate timed writs.  I find them frustrating, stressful and horrific and have frequently expressed the desire to rip the throat out of whoever designed them... and nearly destroyed my computer one day after failing five times in a row. </p><p>So I go through twice as many whatevers doing normal writs.  At least that way my blood pressure stays down and I don't end up throwing my keyboard across the room.  I love love love normal writs.</p>

[Jesdyr]

<cite>Lysari@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p> I hate hate hate hate hate timed writs.  I find them frustrating, stressful and horrific and have frequently expressed the desire to rip the throat out of whoever designed them... and nearly destroyed my computer one day after failing five times in a row. </p><p>So I go through twice as many whatevers doing normal writs.  At least that way my blood pressure stays down and I don't end up throwing my keyboard across the room.  I love love love normal writs.</p></blockquote>I know many people who share those feelings. I really don't understand it. I haven't failed a rush order since I was very new to the game only my low level crafters get under 2 min left and even that is rare. I don't understand how some people have such problems while others have such an easy time. I wish I could be looking over people's shoulders while they craft just to see what is going on. I (and many others) have attempted to explain methods to speedcraft and for some reason people still have problems.

[Krystara]

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lysari@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p> I hate hate hate hate hate timed writs.  I find them frustrating, stressful and horrific and have frequently expressed the desire to rip the throat out of whoever designed them... and nearly destroyed my computer one day after failing five times in a row. </p><p>So I go through twice as many whatevers doing normal writs.  At least that way my blood pressure stays down and I don't end up throwing my keyboard across the room.  I love love love normal writs.</p></blockquote>I know many people who share those feelings. I really don't understand it. I haven't failed a rush order since I was very new to the game only my low level crafters get under 2 min left and even that is rare. I don't understand how some people have such problems while others have such an easy time. I wish I could be looking over people's shoulders while they craft just to see what is going on. I (and many others) have attempted to explain methods to speedcraft and for some reason people still have problems.</blockquote><p>I wish you could look over my shoulder also.  2 minutes left? HA! even on my Provie I'm lucky to have 8 seconds left.  Heck, on the jeweler I still had almost 4 items left to make when the timer ran out.  I'm obviously messing up someplace, although on the jeweler it's because if I even once touch the progession arts my durability plummets like a rock.</p><p>I've read, and thought I understood the guides, but timed writs are just completely beyond me.  Although - it was several levels ago on the jeweler, I should give them another shot as it really does take a lot of harvests to get her up.</p>

[Illmarr]

Didn't read past the OP. The reason you're having trouble is your scribing skill is not maxed. at 115/145 you had the effective skill of a level 23, when you were level 29. This happened because with all the pristine bonuses plus any writ bonuses you leveled so fast your skill-ups did not keep up. Bite the bullet and grind out the same even con recipe and spam your T3 arts. Quality of final product does not matter, all you want is to get skill-ups. Once you are back to max for level (and level 30, cause the level 10 durability buffs are not a lot if things go south on you) you should be fine

[Jesdyr]

<cite>Lysari@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>I wish you could look over my shoulder also.  </p></blockquote>Ok .. wow .. you have a problem here but it should be easy to fix (will take some time). EQ2 players shows you skills are very low 305/350 is going to make crafting anything over lvl 61 a real pain. Your jeweler is at 138/180 which means you are going to be having issues with items over 27. Follow Calthine's post and get those skills up before attempting a rushorder. You will also want to get crafting tool if you have not already (tinkered items or Mara quest rewards). Once you get the skills up, if you are still having problems, post and we will see if we cannot figure out what is wrong.

[Calthine]

<cite>Ilmaaaaah@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Didn't read past the OP. The reason you're having trouble is your scribing skill is not maxed. at 115/145 you had the effective skill of a level 23, when you were level 29. </blockquote>If you had bothered to read past the OP you'd see that several people already figured that out.

[Calthine]

<cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Thanks for the tips.  I'll definitely give that a shot once she hits 30.I still find it very bizarre that of the nine crafters and over 200 levels of crafting experience, this is the only character this has happened on :^P</blockquote>Don't wait.  It won't take long, just do it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Krystara]

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lysari@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>I wish you could look over my shoulder also.  </p></blockquote>Ok .. wow .. you have a problem here but it should be easy to fix (will take some time). EQ2 players shows you skills are very low 305/350 is going to make crafting anything over lvl 61 a real pain. Your jeweler is at 138/180 which means you are going to be having issues with items over 27. Follow Calthine's post and get those skills up before attempting a rushorder. You will also want to get crafting tool if you have not already (tinkered items or Mara quest rewards). Once you get the skills up, if you are still having problems, post and we will see if we cannot figure out what is wrong.</blockquote><p>Ok. Um, wish I was home to check, I was almost positive that I'd maxed all of them out each level.  But you're right that apparently they are way way behind.  Maybe they fell behind and I just thought I'd seen the numbers to up to the right amount when in reality I was always behind.  I have the Mara quest for Lysari, but obviously not yet for Ealasai - I'll have to pick up a tinkered tool for her.  At least Ealasai still has her tunic.</p><p>I'll check when I get home tonight and work on Calthine's advice if they are behind.. it could be that's been my trouble all along.  In which case, I'll throw myself off of the top of the stairs for sheer stupidity.  *grins*  </p>

[Illmarr]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ilmaaaaah@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Didn't read past the OP. The reason you're having trouble is your scribing skill is not maxed. at 115/145 you had the effective skill of a level 23, when you were level 29. </blockquote>If you had bothered to read past the OP you'd see that several people already figured that out.</blockquote>*LOL* I figured, but it's not as if most people on this forum have not posted an answer after a question has already been answered. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Calthine]

<cite>Lysari@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>In which case, I'll throw myself off of the top of the stairs for sheer stupidity.  *grins*  </p></blockquote>Nah.  I actually did it myself recently on my WS, lol.One of the reasons this is happening to you now and not before on your other crafters is TS leveling is significantly faster than it used to be.

[Jesdyr]

<cite>Lysari@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>Ok. Um, wish I was home to check, I was almost positive that I'd maxed all of them out each level. </p></blockquote>Hmm .. Yah I think EQ2 players show them wrong ... it shows my carp with 305/350 and I know she is maxed.

[Illmarr]

Yeah EQ2players is off. Says I'm 305/350 and I've been max for awhile now.

[Krystara]

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lysari@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>Ok. Um, wish I was home to check, I was almost positive that I'd maxed all of them out each level. </p></blockquote>Hmm .. Yah I think EQ2 players show them wrong ... it shows my carp with 305/350 and I know she is maxed. </blockquote><p>I'm pretty sure Lysari at least is maxed.  Ealasai has been flying up the levels so there is a good chance she's fallen behind without me noticing.  I'll check tonight.  And then I'll re-read the timed writ FAQs and give them another shot... I'd love to save the time and materials.</p><p> Calthine - It's nice to know that even the big guns make mistakes!  *grins*</p>

[Vatec]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lysari@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>In which case, I'll throw myself off of the top of the stairs for sheer stupidity.  *grins*  </p></blockquote>Nah.  I actually did it myself recently on my WS, lol.One of the reasons this is happening to you now and not before on your other crafters is TS leveling is significantly faster than it used to be.</blockquote>This is true.  But it's really only affecting my Sage.  All the rest manage to level up their skill while doing the writs.And while writs may not be the most efficient way to level, they're the best balance I've found between levelling the tradeskill, levelling my guild, and paying for it all.  My Provisioner generally turns a profit while levelling, even after buying his recipe books.  And I don't have to monkey around with putting my goods up for sale, pricing them, repricing them, etc.I learned something while my crafters were in the 20s:  App4 spells and handcrafted items don't sell and the amount of time I was investing into managing 9+ broker accounts would have better spent just doing writs.  And since timed writs pay better and provide better status, they're the preferred choice =if= the crafter can complete them.  Eight of my crafters can complete them just fine.  The Weaponsmith failed on one once, but that was because I made a dagger instead of a dirk :^P  The rest crank these things out just fine, though with varying degrees of ease (some regularly finish with 2+ minutes to spare, others with 30- seconds).If I had to guess at a root cause, I'd say it's a combination of levelling become faster and the design of the tier 2/3 Sage arts, most likely the tier 3 progress ones.I'll take a look at her arts next time I log in ;^)And again, thanks to everyone for the advice.  I'm always happy to learn new strategies :^DEDIT:  The truly ironic thing is, for practical purposes my Sage's skill could stay exactly the way it is.  She still never fails to make pristine App4s.  They just take a =long= time.