ranger or swashy

[azekah]

Which is better for grouping/soloing?

[interstellarmatter]

Yes

[azekah]

<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes</blockquote>THANKS!

[cyclonus11]

Swashies, because they've got STYLE. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[azekah]

i can't get no forum lovin...ok, maybe I'll ask a more precise question...which do you think is better for soloing?

[mellowknees72]

<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>i can't get no forum lovin...ok, maybe I'll ask a more precise question...which do you think is better for soloing?</blockquote><p>My personal opinion, since I've played both (though not very high in level) would be Swashbuckler is easier for soloing.</p><p>One of the cool things a good swashie can do is attack from the front, stun the mob, then hop right over to its back and get in a good backstab (I learned that from my husband who soloed a lot of his 68 Swashy's life).</p><p>However, I know that there are folks who are very talented playing rangers, as well, but from what I've heard, you need to get up to the mid-thirties before soloing with a ranger becomes fun and not a chore.  </p>

[Leatherneck]

<cite>Pipes@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><i><b>One of the cool things a good swashie can do is attack from the front, stun the mob, then hop right over to its back and get in a good backstab (I learned that from my husband who soloed a lot of his 68 Swashy's life).</b></i></p><p>However, I know that there are folks who are very talented playing rangers, as well, but from what I've heard, you need to get up to the mid-thirties before soloing with a ranger becomes fun and not a chore.  </p></blockquote>That's a large part of how I solo my ranger.  I use a backshot (if possible) to slow the mob and shoot it on the way in, then slam it in the face, duck around behind it, stab it and fight is mostly done.  None of this kiting business and I've soloed him in that manner about 75% of the time up to lvl 62.

[Skywarrior]

<cite>Pipes@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>My personal opinion, since I've played both (though not very high in level) would be Swashbuckler is easier for soloing. <p>One of the cool things a good swashie can do is attack from the front, stun the mob, then hop right over to its back and get in a good backstab (I learned that from my husband who soloed a lot of his 68 Swashy's life).</p><p>However, I know that there are folks who are very talented playing rangers, as well, but from what I've heard, you need to get up to the mid-thirties before soloing with a ranger becomes fun and not a chore.  </p></blockquote><p>While I won't dispute that Swashbuckler might be easier to solo (I don't know since I've never played a Swashbuckler past about level <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, I can say that the one example you use is a skill common to both classes.  I use stun and backstab routinely on my Ranger when I'm not shooting arrows.  You get the necessary basic skills while still on the island (assuming you don't leave the island immediately on spawn).</p><p>Swashbucklers are nice to have in a group though, as are Rangers.  Not sure that either one is a great solo choice if you are after efficiency and durability.  As a healer (I have a 70 mystic and various other mid level healers), I have been in successful groups that had only scouts as fighters (no tank).  It was doable.  It wasn't a lot of fun at times due to scout-as-tank being kind of a paper tiger.  Swashbucklers definitely have more melee tools than the Ranger and are somewhat better as tanks (if you really have to use one) due to their aoe aggro generation.  But then, comparing a Swashbuckler to a Ranger as a tank is sort of like comparing a Ford F-150 to a Dodge Ram for hauling gravel.  Yeah, they can do it but only in little chunks and you might break them if you aren't careful.</p><p>They are interesting to play, however, and fun if you have the patience.  I wouldn't expect the Swashbuckler to be a whole lot different than the Range in that regard.  Pretty much every class is soloable in this game.  It just depends on your personal playstyle, how much time you have to play, and how fast you want to do things.</p>

[interstellarmatter]

<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes</blockquote>THANKS!</blockquote><p>Hehe..I guess my point was...remember it was early Monday morning..is that they are both very good at soloing.  Now, I've seen people have trouble soloing a Ranger.  It was only because they didn't know how to play them correctly.</p><p>In the hands of a competent player, both are very cool solo.</p>

[Vatec]

<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>i can't get no forum lovin...ok, maybe I'll ask a more precise question...which do you think is better for soloing?</blockquote>And as a high mid-level Ranger, I can almost guarantee that Swashbucklers solo better.  Rangers can solo.  And they can probably solo things Swashbucklers can't touch.  But only if they have room to work in.  A Swashbuckler basically just needs enough room to jump over a mob and stab it in the back, so they'll have a lot more versatility on =where= they can solo.

[Bre]

<p>I have a raid geared 70 ranger and a 68 swash. My swash has a nice debuff attached to everything I can think of at this present moment except his multi attacks making his value to a group higher than my ranger in my opinion. While my ranger will do more dps the swash is close enough to make it pretty darn frustrating. I'll list out some benifits that I can think of if that helps at all.Bah, I was going to list everything out but I've lost interest. So I'll give ya the short and sweet. Swash is a larger asset to your group. Ranger will kill stuff faster but not enough to outweigh everything a swash can bring to the table. Ranger can kill harder mobs faster, IF s/he has room to kite. My ranger can take 72 triple ups with little or no problem if I have some room to move. Swash can literally mow through smaller mobs especially if you apply some vitality breach poison. Also you won't have to buy arrows constantly as a swash.</p><p>So, in my opinion there isn't much reason to play a ranger right now over a swash. If you do pick ranger make sure it is because you really like the class and how it plays. I honestly can't stand playing my swash though, a ranger will always be my main, but I can really see why so many people enjoy playing a swashbuckler. You get all the benifits of being a scout, high DPS, short off tanking ability, good debuffs, a larger selection of benificial gear and the whole style thing. With a ranger you get pathfinding and a constant puzzled expression caused from wondering why so many classes can do almost as much dps as you and still bring so much more to the table. </p><p>The above is brought to you by a very burnt out and recently retired player who is praying that RoK will help me enjoy the game again. </p><p>Brega - 70 ranger - Test Server </p>

[Siclone]

Swashy is a better all around toon, one of the best in the game you cant go wrong with it.Rangers can solo ok in the right situation, but swashies are better for raids ect

[jarlaxle8]

<p>I feel your pain Brega. I know that constant puzzled expression very well. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>The people here generally gave a good overview of the classes. A Ranger can solo some hard stuff if room allows it, but overall the swash is probably the easier to play and maintain.</p>

[azekah]

<cite>Brega wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I have a raid geared 70 ranger and a 68 swash...I honestly can't stand playing my swash though</p></blockquote>I thought that was funny...Wow, I guess I just wasn't patient enough. Thanks for all the info guys. I started a swashy the other night and got him to level 6 or 7. He's a little red-headed halfling called Ssneaks... <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I couldn't believe that name wasn't already taken! So far I'm really enjoying it. I'm getting used to all the stealth/positional attacks as I've never really played a scout before. I've found out that my stealth attack, when done from behind, stuns them long enough that I can get in two of my flanking attacks right after. Not sure if that'll work on heroics, but it's nice for saving my cheapshot for another attack. Also, I can queue stealth and my stealth attack during a fight and if I don't get hit, can pull off a 2nd stealth attack. I'm looking forward to taking this guy out into the real world and seeing what he can do!Btw, I just bought a second account of EQII cuz I wanto try out two boxing. Any suggestions for a good class to go with my swashy?

[DngrMou]

<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>Btw, I just bought a second account of EQII cuz I wanto try out two boxing. Any suggestions for a good class to go with my swashy?</blockquote>Another swashy.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[liveja]

<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>Any suggestions for a good class to go with my swashy?</blockquote><p>A Warden. Heals, buffs, ports, & another evac all add up to duo-goodness.</p>

[azekah]

<cite>Youris@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Another swashy.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>... : 0probably not the best idea <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I guess a healer would be best, which healer goes best with a swashy? ie buffs and stuff...

[ke'la]

<cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>i can't get no forum lovin...ok, maybe I'll ask a more precise question...which do you think is better for soloing?</blockquote>And as a high mid-level Ranger, I can almost guarantee that Swashbucklers solo better.  Rangers can solo.  And they can probably solo things Swashbucklers can't touch.  But only if they have room to work in.  A Swashbuckler basically just needs enough room to jump over a mob and stab it in the back, so they'll have a lot more versatility on =where= they can solo.</blockquote><p>Accually with the right AA you don't even need to get behind the mob. With Walk the Plank you can get the mob to turn it's back on you, then fire off one attack, then stun, then you can get 2 more attacks in(thats assuming you max out WTP) without having to move from your spot. </p><p>As far as survivablity if you spec, your Swash for Soloing using AAs you can accually be a fairly effective tank and you do have good survivablity.</p>

[ke'la]

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>Any suggestions for a good class to go with my swashy?</blockquote><p>A Warden. Heals, buffs, ports, & another evac all add up to duo-goodness.</p></blockquote>Accually I thought Fury had the better Melee buffs I could be wrong though. If thats the case I would go Fury because of Heals, buffs and ports, though I don't think furies get evac.

[azekah]

<cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Accually I thought Fury had the better Melee buffs I could be wrong though. If thats the case I would go Fury because of Heals, buffs and ports, though I don't think furies get evac.</blockquote>anyone know for sure?I always thought it strange that wardens don't...well...ward

[Illyakuran]

<p>Warden, inquisitor, and mystic all go well with a swashbuckler.</p><p>Warden has some nice heal procs and heal over time spells which make for nice semi-afk healing. Inquisitors have nice buffs and damage procs and can take a beating. Mystics get wards and bolster.</p><p>I two-box a warden and swashbuckler and it works well. With two evacs, ports, Call of Ro, Call of Qeynos, and a 45% run speed buff that stacks with jboots for a total run speed of 55% the movement possibilities are very flexible. Healing ability is good but the down side is that wardens do not buff strength, dps, or haste.</p><p>As for ranger versus swashbuckler, swashies look good and that's what really matters. Both can solo well but swashies can solo better in close quarters while rangers can solo better if they have room to manuver and can take down tougher mobs than a swashie can because they spend less time getting hit if there is room to manuver. In raids swashies have more utility and good dps while rangers have better dps but little to no utility. </p>

[azekah]

Hmm...a pally/ranger duo might be interesting too...with amends I could prob keep aggro pretty easily without too much attention to the pally (never played one, just going on what I've read - would that work?) and focus on dpsing with my ranger, and of course backup healing with the pally...maybe ill do two duos!!!or duo duos! :0

[Illyakuran]

<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Accually I thought Fury had the better Melee buffs I could be wrong though. If thats the case I would go Fury because of Heals, buffs and ports, though I don't think furies get evac.</blockquote>anyone know for sure?I always thought it strange that wardens don't...well...ward</blockquote><p>Furys get a nice melee buff and better dps than a warden. I prefer the warden for the spores, spikes, tree of life, melee skill buffs, and knockdown buff plus the heal over time spells.</p><p>I think warden is more of a reference to game warden, warden of the royal forests, etc.</p>

[phoenixshard]

I can't give the breakdown on a Ranger, as I haven't played one, but one of my favorite alts is an Assassin who I've gotten up close to 50 now. She is a blast to play, but if the ranger is like the assassin, then you most definitely have to be aware of your surroundings when you attack. I've played a swashbuckler and they are OK, but I'd try the ranger out myself. If they are half as fun to play as the assassin is, then you will have a fun time with it.

[liveja]

<cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>Any suggestions for a good class to go with my swashy?</blockquote><p>A Warden. Heals, buffs, ports, & another evac all add up to duo-goodness.</p></blockquote>Accually I thought Fury had the better Melee buffs I could be wrong though.</blockquote>They might, I don't know. I just know that I duo my Swashy with a guildie Warden regularly, & we kick @#$ together. Furies would probably be fine too, but seriously, that second evac really comes in handy, & with group stealth, the Fury's invis isn't an issue, & my Warden partner can save her invis totems for when she needs them herself.

[cyclonus11]

<cite>Pipes@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>azekah wrote:</cite>One of the cool things a good swashie can do is attack from the front, stun the mob, then hop right over to its back and get in a good backstab (I learned that from my husband who soloed a lot of his 68 Swashy's life).</blockquote>If you take the AGI line, you can use Walk the Plank & not even have to worry about jumping around. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[azekah]

<cite>cyclonus11 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pipes@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>azekah wrote:</cite>One of the cool things a good swashie can do is attack from the front, stun the mob, then hop right over to its back and get in a good backstab (I learned that from my husband who soloed a lot of his 68 Swashy's life).</blockquote>If you take the AGI line, you can use Walk the Plank & not even have to worry about jumping around. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>I didn't write that... <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[azekah]

hmm, second thoughts on that pally/ranger duo...looking on the spell list, pallys dont get amends until 49?

[woolf2k]

if your good at figuring out classes then ranger but chances are you aren't (that's 90% of the player base) so swashy for you.

[azekah]

<cite>woolf2k wrote:</cite><blockquote>if your good at figuring out classes then ranger but chances are you aren't (that's 90% of the player base) so swashy for you.</blockquote>wow, appreciate the faith...

[Vatec]

<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>woolf2k wrote:</cite><blockquote>if your good at figuring out classes then ranger but chances are you aren't (that's 90% of the player base) so swashy for you.</blockquote>wow, appreciate the faith...</blockquote>Harsh, but there's some truth to that statement.  You have no idea how many tanks I've grouped with who don't know that they should turn the mob so its back is to the rest of the group.  I guess they figure that everyone else can change position, but all that does is greatly increase the chance of getting adds.  Hopefully you are one of the people who can learn to play well, but without knowing you personally or having played with you, no one other than you knows that for certain ;^)

[Bre]

<cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>woolf2k wrote:</cite><blockquote>if your good at figuring out classes then ranger but chances are you aren't (that's 90% of the player base) so swashy for you.</blockquote>wow, appreciate the faith...</blockquote>Harsh, but there's some truth to that statement.  You have no idea how many tanks I've grouped with who don't know that they should turn the mob so its back is to the rest of the group.  I guess they figure that everyone else can change position, but all that does is greatly increase the chance of getting adds.  Hopefully you are one of the people who can learn to play well, but without knowing you personally or having played with you, no one other than you knows that for certain ;^)</blockquote><p>Might not want to bash tanks for not flipping mobs when you use hemotoxin and the stamina line...</p><p>Brega - 70 Ranger, Test Server</p>

[Vatec]

<cite>Brega wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>woolf2k wrote:</cite><blockquote>if your good at figuring out classes then ranger but chances are you aren't (that's 90% of the player base) so swashy for you.</blockquote>wow, appreciate the faith...</blockquote>Harsh, but there's some truth to that statement.  You have no idea how many tanks I've grouped with who don't know that they should turn the mob so its back is to the rest of the group.  I guess they figure that everyone else can change position, but all that does is greatly increase the chance of getting adds.  Hopefully you are one of the people who can learn to play well, but without knowing you personally or having played with you, no one other than you knows that for certain ;^)</blockquote><p>Might not want to bash tanks for not flipping mobs when you use hemotoxin and the stamina line...</p><p>Brega - 70 Ranger, Test Server</p></blockquote>Any particular reason for the Cheap Shot?  I happen to prefer fighting groups rather than single mobs when soloing.  DoTs and AE abilities help me do that.  So I guess I'm saying that I fail to see your point...?I'm going to assume that you're referring to a couple of threads I've posted in on the Ranger forum.  To wit,A.  the one where a relative newcomer was complaining about his inability to solo and, when pressed for details, mentioned he was having trouble with a specific group encounter.  My advice to him was, "<span class="postbody">So, if you decide you really want the ability to fight groups, you'll need to do AGI and STA AA lines.  That's what I'm doing, <b>but I don't recommend it to everyone.  AGI and INT are still the "optimal" choices."  </b>Please note the part in <b>bold</b>.  and B.  the one where I asked why other Rangers prefer to use Caustic Poison.  A couple posted their reasons and I concurred that for the way most Rangers play, Caustic Poison is probably better than Hemotoxin.  Fortunately, since I like to fight groups (which Rangers generally suck at), it turns out that, as I'd expected, Hemotoxin works just fine for my playstyle.So, I'm glad that I have made such an impression upon you with my eloquence that you feel compelled to track my posts and then follow me to other threads to share your words of wisdom.  Should I expect to see you in the Tradeskill forum questioning my competence at spamming the same six buffs for hours on end?  Or perhaps in the Gameplay forum where I chipped in on a thread about PvP?  No, wait, I know where you'll show up next!  On the Swashbuckler forum where you'll undoubtedly point out that my opinion on the methodology of testing the DW change is irrelevant because I'm not level 70 and therefore not entitled to an opinion.I always wonder why a high level of "skill" in online games correlates inversely to the level of skill at social interaction....</span>

[denmom]

I've a Swash, specc'd out for tanking.  Went down the Str tree for the Blackguard line and took Walk the Plank as well in the Agi line.  I've found that the Swash and Brig can handle tanking better than the other types.  Both have offensive and defensive stances, and the Swash even has a taunt.Highly <i><b>highly</b></i> recommend Walk the Plank!  I always had trouble backstabbing until I specc'd that in, and then began to play my Swash like a tank, no regrets!  I maxed out WtP and in timing the spin just right I can set off both my backstabs.I still laugh about the night my Guardian friend was grouped with the Warden and I.  I was spinning the mob once or twice every fight and about an hour into Nek Castle he asks "Am I losing aggro?  The mob keeps turning away from me."  After I could type again and recovered from laughing, I told him it was me.  "Oh...I almost woke up my wife yelling at the screen and going [Removed for Content]?! because it kept turning from me!".Heh.

[jarlaxle8]

<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hmm...a pally/ranger duo might be interesting too...with amends I could prob keep aggro pretty easily without too much attention to the pally (never played one, just going on what I've read - would that work?) and focus on dpsing with my ranger, and of course backup healing with the pally...maybe ill do two duos!!!or duo duos! :0</blockquote>I always liked to duo with a Paly cause of ammends. Works pretty well. And btw, there are lower level versions of amends. First of that spell line is redemption at lvl 21.

[azekah]

<cite>Ryilan@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I always liked to duo with a Paly cause of ammends. Works pretty well. And btw, there are lower level versions of amends. First of that spell line is redemption at lvl 21.</blockquote>Oh sweet, 21 isn't bad...

[Beldin_]

<cite>denmom wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've a Swash, specc'd out for tanking.  Went down the Str tree for the Blackguard line and took Walk the Plank as well in the Agi line.  I've found that the Swash and Brig can handle tanking better than the other types.  Both have offensive and defensive stances, and the Swash even has a taunt.</blockquote><p>Brig has also a taunt, and with STA line we can even get a group-taunt <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Also with STA-Line my Brig has nearly mitigation and life of a plat-tank and better avoidance.</p>

[Bre]

<cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Brega wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>woolf2k wrote:</cite><blockquote>if your good at figuring out classes then ranger but chances are you aren't (that's 90% of the player base) so swashy for you.</blockquote>wow, appreciate the faith...</blockquote>Harsh, but there's some truth to that statement.  You have no idea how many tanks I've grouped with who don't know that they should turn the mob so its back is to the rest of the group.  I guess they figure that everyone else can change position, but all that does is greatly increase the chance of getting adds.  Hopefully you are one of the people who can learn to play well, but without knowing you personally or having played with you, no one other than you knows that for certain ;^)</blockquote><p>Might not want to bash tanks for not flipping mobs when you use hemotoxin and the stamina line...</p><p>Brega - 70 Ranger, Test Server</p></blockquote>Any particular reason for the Cheap Shot?  I happen to prefer fighting groups rather than single mobs when soloing.  DoTs and AE abilities help me do that.  So I guess I'm saying that I fail to see your point...?I'm going to assume that you're referring to a couple of threads I've posted in on the Ranger forum.  To wit,A.  the one where a relative newcomer was complaining about his inability to solo and, when pressed for details, mentioned he was having trouble with a specific group encounter.  My advice to him was, "<span class="postbody">So, if you decide you really want the ability to fight groups, you'll need to do AGI and STA AA lines.  That's what I'm doing, <b>but I don't recommend it to everyone.  AGI and INT are still the "optimal" choices."  </b>Please note the part in <b>bold</b>.  and B.  the one where I asked why other Rangers prefer to use Caustic Poison.  A couple posted their reasons and I concurred that for the way most Rangers play, Caustic Poison is probably better than Hemotoxin.  Fortunately, since I like to fight groups (which Rangers generally suck at), it turns out that, as I'd expected, Hemotoxin works just fine for my playstyle.So, I'm glad that I have made such an impression upon you with my eloquence that you feel compelled to track my posts and then follow me to other threads to share your words of wisdom.  Should I expect to see you in the Tradeskill forum questioning my competence at spamming the same six buffs for hours on end?  Or perhaps in the Gameplay forum where I chipped in on a thread about PvP?  No, wait, I know where you'll show up next!  On the Swashbuckler forum where you'll undoubtedly point out that my opinion on the methodology of testing the DW change is irrelevant because I'm not level 70 and therefore not entitled to an opinion.I always wonder why a high level of "skill" in online games correlates inversely to the level of skill at social interaction....</span></blockquote><p>Actually if you look back in this thread I did post right after you and said nothing about you at all. I only replied to you when you said somthing that I felt warrented a comment. So no, I'm not stalking you. I posted because I saw you griping about a tank not flipping a mob when you yourself aren't doing what you should. Which is speccing to do the most damage possible. If you decide to take a route that isn't optimal and go solo then hey, you are only hurting yourself. However in a group if you decide to take a wacky build and use the wrong poisons you should at the very least warn your group members that you have decided to not do your best, just as a tank that doens't feel the need to flip should. Cause imo you are in the same category. </p><p>As to my level of social interaction /shrug don't care whatcha think. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I do however care about how our class is being portrayed, and you are in fact doing it a disservice. </p><p>Now, it probably was my mistake in posting as I did. I should have just sent you a PM instead of cluttering up this thread. If you do wish to continue this feel free to PM me and we can talk there. </p><p>Brega - 70 Ranger, Test Server</p>

[Vatec]

<cite>Brega wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>//SNIP//</cite><p>Now, it probably was my mistake in posting as I did. I should have just sent you a PM instead of cluttering up this thread. If you do wish to continue this feel free to PM me and we can talk there. </p><p>Brega - 70 Ranger, Test Server</p></blockquote>I'll take it to PMs.  I will point out, however, that I play the game to have fun.  It's not a "job."  I don't have a "job" to do.  And I've always found that line of thinking to be deeply disturbing.  Who cares if I do 10dps less than a "properly" specialized Ranger?  I'm still outdpsing everyone else in the group by a decent margin.  Also, feel free to check the Ranger forum thread discussing the differences between Hemotoxin and Caustic Poison.  I am =far= from convinced that Caustic Poison is that much better than Hemotoxin.  And as for "warning" the group:  you are joking, right?  When a tank lacks the knowledge (or is just too lazy) to flip the mob, he's making everyone else in the group work harder and greatly increasing the chance of the group wiping.  If I do 10 or 20 dps less than I could if I specialized the same way everyone else does, it just means a some fights might take a few seconds longer.So, while I understand where you're coming from, I simply disagree with your conclusions.  Sorry.

[Moonlance]

As far as hemo or caustic....for a swash.Soloing: Only one dmg poison is worth using and that is Vitality Breach.  A well equiped swash can solo many even con heroics with this poison.Grouping: Caustic (if you are even going to bother wasting it on heroics that die fast in a good group anyway)Raiding: Depends on your group makeup, with proc buffs, caustic is better since dmg poisons will proc about 6.0 times a minute, without proc buffs, hemo is better since dmg poisons proc about 5.0 times a minute.  Look at the two poisons and do the math.  6 times a minute means poison will proc every 10 seconds on average.  5 times a minute means poison will proc every 12 seconds.  As far as hemo is concerned that is the difference between 2.5 ticks of hemo per proc or 3 ticks of hemo per proc.  Add that damage up and compare it to caustic.

[Vatec]

<cite>Scayre@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>As far as hemo or caustic....for a swash.Soloing: Only one dmg poison is worth using and that is Vitality Breach.  A well equiped swash can solo many even con heroics with this poison.Grouping: Caustic (if you are even going to bother wasting it on heroics that die fast in a good group anyway)Raiding: Depends on your group makeup, with proc buffs, caustic is better since dmg poisons will proc about 6.0 times a minute, without proc buffs, hemo is better since dmg poisons proc about 5.0 times a minute.  Look at the two poisons and do the math.  6 times a minute means poison will proc every 10 seconds on average.  5 times a minute means poison will proc every 12 seconds.  As far as hemo is concerned that is the difference between 2.5 ticks of hemo per proc or 3 ticks of hemo per proc.  Add that damage up and compare it to caustic. </blockquote>Soloing:  Agree on Vitality Breach.  Now that I've hit 50, I'll be sure to stock up on it ;^)Grouping:  I know Caustic is the "common wisdom."  But I've never seen good numbers on the matter.  But I'd feel weird if I didn't use poisons in groups.  Some swashbuckler or cloth-wearer might outparse me.  And since damage is pretty much the only thing a ranger brings to the table, that would scar my psyche in ways I can't even begin to describe due to the embarrassment :^DRaiding:  I've got a thread in the Ranger forum on the topic.  I did the math (using level 40 poisons since that's what was available on the broker to compare - Hemotoxin is 117 instantly and every 4 seconds; Caustic is 261 instantly).  From what I've seen, 10 seconds is actually 3.5 pulses, not 2.5 because the first pulse happens at time zero.  And, given that 2 pulses of Hemotoxin is almost the same damage as one dose of Caustic, 3 pulses of Hemotoxin is 40% more damage than equivalent Caustic.  Even taking into account that the Hemotoxin might proc more often (there are players who insist it procs "every couple of seconds"<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />, it's still in the same ballpark as Caustic.  If it goes off less often, it utterly blows Caustic away.Now do you see why I'm not convinced?But the fact remains, Caustic sells for twice as much as Hemotoxin on the broker, when it's available at all.Maybe tomorrow I'll go buy some Caustic Poison and compare the two.  My gut instinct tells me that for soloing groups, Hemotoxin is head, shoulders, torso, and crotch above Caustic.  It might even be better than Vitality Breach for soloing green groups (since they can barely hit me anyway).  The real question is, whether it's better against single mobs.  Fact is, when fighting solo mobs, I generally don't use poison at all, so I'll test it against some heroics and see how it works out.  No promises, though.  I might be inspired to level some crafters instead :^PEDIT:  I'll point out that Rangers do get an EoF AA that enhances Caustic Poison.  So that tilts the balance slightly.  But I'm still not sure even that is enough.  I think the key difference might be the enhanced chance of poison crits that comes from speccing the INT line.  It's pretty clear that both Caustic and Vitality Breach would benefit more from that than Hemotoxin.

[woolf2k]

I was short but I should explain my response that it's based on the rangers solo play. A rangers dps is in being ranged. Sure they have melee abilities but the real dps is in the ranged abilities. if you can't develope the combat skills to keep your prey at a distance then you will have alot of trouble soloing.