Make all servers exchange servers

[Noxxia]

Sony, if you make all servers exchange servers you will drive the plat farmers out of business. System wide competition from all players will make it unfeasable for them to profit. If any Sony subscriber could sell any character, item, or coin to anyone else in the game, the numbers would absolutely drive prices down. But dont believe me, just put a common master1 spell on the broker and watch the price fall as everyone scrambles to get thier few golds for the same spell. Competiton is the key to free enterprise and sponsored competition would allow even the average player to buy an item or some coin (if they wanted to) for a few bucks. If it did not work, you could always nerf it later.

[matt2004]

<p>You know what....your right. It would make farmers go away. Why? because changing any server to exchange would kill the measly population this game is struggling to hold. </p><p>Dumbest idea ive read on these forums yet. i hope your joking.</p>

[Seffrid]

<p>So what you're really after is maintaining the same amount of transactions but driving down the price of them?</p><p>That seems to be what you're suggesting.</p><p>Now all you need to do is to explain to the 99% of players who want nothing to do with plat selling etc why it's ok to buy from a player but not from a website.</p><p>It's a nonsensical idea that would drive most of the players away and as such it will never be introduced, at least not in this game. I can foresee SOE launching a new game on the back of RMT but only if they see it being a viable proposition, and the experience thus far with games that are based on free-to-play topped up with RMT for special items and access to special areas is hardly encouraging.</p><p>Most players simply don't want RMT in any way, shape or form. Period.</p>

[Wingrider01]

<cite>Barakijal@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sony, if you make all servers exchange servers you will drive the plat farmers out of business. System wide competition from all players will make it unfeasable for them to profit. If any Sony subscriber could sell any character, item, or coin to anyone else in the game, the numbers would absolutely drive prices down. But dont believe me, just put a common master1 spell on the broker and watch the price fall as everyone scrambles to get thier few golds for the same spell. Competiton is the key to free enterprise and sponsored competition would allow even the average player to buy an item or some coin (if they wanted to) for a few bucks. If it did not work, you could always nerf it later.</blockquote><p>/rofl - no it won't has not done it yet on the current exchange servers, what possible concept can you have to think it will do it if all the servers are made that way.</p><p> It would possible work, because the players that find the concept of offensive will leave the game, so you may be right after all, but then again you would have to drop it down to 3 servers to support the population</p>

[Ardnahoy]

<p>I've been a member of Exchange servers since day 1 and what you are saying is simply not true. Prices on the exchange servers are actually quite high compared to other servers. Plat prices on the exchange is just slightly more expensive than plat prices from disreputable plat selling websites.</p><p>There are a lot of misconceptions about the Exchange servers. There are really only two things that people buy/sell - players and plat. It is actually quite fun to buy an undergeared level 70 toon for $60, run then through a few raids to pick up leftover loot, pick up a few AA's, and then sell for double the price. It is also nice to be able to just go out and buy 50 plat to seed your new Transmuter with some money, or buy your alts some horses.</p><p>Ultimately, the money you earn on the Exchange servers is nowhere near profitable (unless you consider grinding 2 bucks an hour as a profit making endeavor). Where you come out winning is in that you learned to play a new toon at a reasonable level with little effort. You can pick up a mid-level toon for peanuts, play them for a few days to learn the class, and then resell them if you do not like the class. At the very least, you come out even money wise, but you win considering that you didn't waste hours levelling the toon to mid-levels. If you liked the toon, you keep it. Paying 25 bucks for a midlevel toon is a reasonable compensation to whever played them before and found that they didn't like it anymore. Sure beats deleting the toon for nothing.</p><p>I would love for all the servers to go to the Exchange format. It will not drive the plat farmers out of business any faster than it would lower the subscription rates. Once people see how convenient it is to be able to purchase plat and players, they will never look back.</p>

[liveja]

<cite>Jagone@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I would love for all the servers to go to the Exchange format.</p></blockquote><p>I'm glad that Exchange-enabled servers exist for those players who like them. But if the rest of the servers were officially Exchange-enabled, I would cancel my account immediately.</p><p>I have absolutely no interest at all in "the ease & convenience of buying characters & plat". I'd rather earn what I have by playing the game.</p>

[The_Real_Ohno]

<p>To the OP, no thanks.</p><p>Honestly, it doesnt really matter what SoE or we do about plat farmers, they will always still be here.  Kind of sad but its true.</p>

[Loolee]

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jagone@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I would love for all the servers to go to the Exchange format.</p></blockquote><p>I'm glad that Exchange-enabled servers exist for those players who like them. But if the rest of the servers were officially Exchange-enabled, I would cancel my account immediately.</p><p>I have absolutely no interest at all in "the ease & convenience of buying characters & plat". I'd rather earn what I have by playing the game.</p></blockquote>AMEN!

[Josgar]

<cite>Loolee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jagone@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I would love for all the servers to go to the Exchange format.</p></blockquote><p>I'm glad that Exchange-enabled servers exist for those players who like them. But if the rest of the servers were officially Exchange-enabled, I would cancel my account immediately.</p><p>I have absolutely no interest at all in "the ease & convenience of buying characters & plat". I'd rather earn what I have by playing the game.</p></blockquote>AMEN!</blockquote>I don't want all servers to be exchange enabled either... but I would like to point out somthing...If the devs were to enable it... technically you wouldnt be using the ease and convenience if you never use the exchange...But: <span style="font-size: large;">Keep the SE on the SE servers</span>

[interstellarmatter]

<p>We already got to vote on whether our server was going to be SE when it first came out.  </p><p>The answer was no.</p>

[pantswearer]

<p>We've recently had a few new recruits to our guild that are "taking refuge" from an exchange server. </p><p>They came to Blackburrow because they were sick of the intense greed in looting and camping mobs that they experienced on the exchange server they had previously played on. Sure, greed and camping exist on all servers. And sure, not everyone on the exchange servers is total loot-[Removed for Content]. All I'm saying is, when you add in yet <i>another</i> reason for people to be greedy, more people will be greedy. </p><p>Please leave the servers as they are, so that we have the choice as to whether or not to participate in station exchange. </p><p> ps. Here's some unnecessary but unresistable sarcasm: Hey, why don't we just change every single server to FFA PvP, so that we can kill the plat farmers every time we see them?</p>

[Dasein]

Given the money made by the grey market RMT companies and the ubiquity of RMT across the entire MMO industry, it is quite reasonable to say there is a substantial part of the MMO player-base which is just fine with RMT. However, I'd say RMT has entered into the 'don't ask, don't tell' phase, where everyone knows it's going on, but no one really wants it to be upfront. Thus, things like the recent bout with spam or the legitimization of RMT via exchange servers are frowned upon - RMT isn't ready to come out of the closet just yet.

[Wingrider01]

<cite>Loolee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jagone@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I would love for all the servers to go to the Exchange format.</p></blockquote><p>I'm glad that Exchange-enabled servers exist for those players who like them. But if the rest of the servers were officially Exchange-enabled, I would cancel my account immediately.</p><p>I have absolutely no interest at all in "the ease & convenience of buying characters & plat". I'd rather earn what I have by playing the game.</p></blockquote>AMEN!</blockquote>QFE

[liveja]

<p>To me, engaging in RMT on a non-Exchange-enabled server is like going to someone else's fancy dress ball wearing a T-shirt & ugly Bermuda shorts. If you can't abide by the rules set by your hosts, don't go to the party.</p>

[Spyderbite]

Screw up the PvE servers with ideas like this all you want. But, keep it off the PvP servers. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />I have enough problems compensating for my lack of talent.. I don't need the additional frustration of competing with peeps decked out in gear purchased with their Amex card and getting frequent flyer miles to boot. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Femke]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Screw up the PvE servers with ideas like this all you want. But, keep it off the PvP servers. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Oh... what a social and friendly thinking of your fellow Everquest II players... "Damage and destroy all you want, but keep your fingers from our little piece".I am disgusted of PvP... but that doesn't mean I say that they should blow up the PvP servers....Femke.

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Femke wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I am disgusted of PvP... but that doesn't mean I say that they should blow up the PvP servers....</blockquote>Heh.. you took what I said completely out of context.Its common practice for the PvE community (in MMO's overall.. not just EQ2 or my "fellow players&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> to demand changes to the game which effect the balance of the PvP community. Because they are the majority and maintaining two sets of code is not cost efficient, developers will often comply with these requests in one fashion or another.So, my point was that if you, as a PvE preferred play style, want to twink your servers (collectively speaking not you specifically), fine. But, as far fetched of a request as this one is.. we of the PvP community get very, very nervous when such things are brought up. Because, inevitably it will effect our play style if implemented.

[Dasein]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Screw up the PvE servers with ideas like this all you want. But, keep it off the PvP servers. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />I have enough problems compensating for my lack of talent.. I don't need the additional frustration of competing with peeps decked out in gear purchased with their Amex card and getting frequent flyer miles to boot. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>Interesting you have this sentiment. What's your take on this: <a href="http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/2007/08/attitudes-to-rm.html#more" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Attitudes Toward RMT</a>?

[Seffrid]

Anyone wanting to extend SE also needs to be aware that SE is only available to US players. No players outside the USA (not sure about the Canadian situation) may partake of SE (although they can have characters on a SE server) due to legal constraints that SOE have never got around so far as I'm aware.

[liveja]

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Screw up the PvE servers with ideas like this all you want. But, keep it off the PvP servers. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />I have enough problems compensating for my lack of talent.. I don't need the additional frustration of competing with peeps decked out in gear purchased with their Amex card and getting frequent flyer miles to boot. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />"></blockquote>Interesting you have this sentiment. What's your take on this: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/2007/08/attitudes-to-rm.html#more" target="_blank">Attitudes Toward RMT</a>?</blockquote><p>/begin cite</p><p>But in a PvP context, those at comparable levels are only differentiated by the statistical edge of equipment and sufficient consumables (potions,...) to get through a fight.</p><p>In PvP, also, you might have a completely separate set of gear if you know the kind of opponent you are facing (caster vs. tank, say) -- so you need more specialized, diversified sets of equipment.</p><p>As a result, you cheat^h^h^h^h^h^h buy up or you fail to thrive in a PvP game.</p><p>/end cite</p><p>It's attitudes like this that need to be cracked down on hard. This is precisely the sort of attitude that drives RMT in the first place. REAL players should respond with a contemptuous "Learn to freekin' PLAY, n00blet!", & then work to run such scrubs off the server.</p><p>In any event, that person's attitude is precisely why RMT on PvP servers is FAR worse than it is on PvE servers.</p>

[Finora]

<cite>Barakijal@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sony, if you make all servers exchange servers you will drive the plat farmers out of business. System wide competition from all players will make it unfeasable for them to profit. If any Sony subscriber could sell any character, item, or coin to anyone else in the game, the numbers would absolutely drive prices down. But dont believe me, just put a common master1 spell on the broker and watch the price fall as everyone scrambles to get thier few golds for the same spell. Competiton is the key to free enterprise and sponsored competition would allow even the average player to buy an item or some coin (if they wanted to) for a few bucks. If it did not work, you could always nerf it later.</blockquote><p>How about no. Way back when they were thinking about implimenting the SE servers they surveyed us to see what we'd like to see. As you can see, it was decided that SE would be kept on their own servers away from the rest of us. If someone desires to freely engage in RMT then they are welcome to roll on the SE servers, don't presume to taint my end of the game with it because pro-RMT people are too lazy to get off your rear and spend a couple hours working for something in game.</p><p>I seriously doubt it would do anything to drive away plat farmers, it would just make them seem more legitimate (even though with SE rules they aren't).</p><hr /><p>QUOTE: </p><p>I would love for all the servers to go to the Exchange format. It will not drive the plat farmers out of business any faster than it would lower the subscription rates. Once people see how convenient it is to be able to purchase plat and players, they will never look back.</p><hr /><p>As for this one, I think many many people would turn their backs and never look back at EQ2 again. I know I would most of the people I know would likely. I can put up with nerfs and endless revamps etc etc, those are part and parcel to MMOs, RMT is quite another thing entirely. </p>

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>I'd rather put up with the plat farmers.</p>

[Dasein]

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Screw up the PvE servers with ideas like this all you want. But, keep it off the PvP servers. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />I have enough problems compensating for my lack of talent.. I don't need the additional frustration of competing with peeps decked out in gear purchased with their Amex card and getting frequent flyer miles to boot. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />"></blockquote>Interesting you have this sentiment. What's your take on this: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/2007/08/attitudes-to-rm.html#more" target="_blank">Attitudes Toward RMT</a>?</blockquote><p>/begin cite</p><p>But in a PvP context, those at comparable levels are only differentiated by the statistical edge of equipment and sufficient consumables (potions,...) to get through a fight.</p><p>In PvP, also, you might have a completely separate set of gear if you know the kind of opponent you are facing (caster vs. tank, say) -- so you need more specialized, diversified sets of equipment.</p><p>As a result, you cheat^h^h^h^h^h^h buy up or you fail to thrive in a PvP game.</p><p>/end cite</p><p>It's attitudes like this that need to be cracked down on hard. This is precisely the sort of attitude that drives RMT in the first place. REAL players should respond with a contemptuous "Learn to freekin' PLAY, n00blet!", & then work to run such scrubs off the server.</p><p>In any event, that person's attitude is precisely why RMT on PvP servers is FAR worse than it is on PvE servers.</p></blockquote>So you are denying that PvP is heavily item-centric? Why do players level-lock, for example, if not to build up AA and get the best equipment? Skill is a factor to some extent, but gear makes far more of a difference. The author's point was that in his experience on the WoW PvP servers, RMT is more accepted, or at least seen as less of a transgression against the established norms. RMT is just another external factors involved in playing. For example, how many people would consider raiding without Teamspeak or Ventrillo and ACT or some other parser? These sorts of tools become part of the established elements of the game as determined by the playerbase. RMT is no different. As it becomes more pervasive, it becomes accepted as just another tool available to players.

[Wingrider01]

<cite>Seffrid wrote:</cite><blockquote>Anyone wanting to extend SE also needs to be aware that SE is only available to US players. No players outside the USA (not sure about the Canadian situation) may partake of SE (although they can have characters on a SE server) due to legal constraints that SOE have never got around so far as I'm aware.</blockquote>Canada included, International financial laws, tax laws, laws regarding virtual properties are some of the reason there are issues. In the US there is only one primary tax/income organization to deal with, outside the US there are a multi organizations to deal with, add to the fact US laws governing trade with particular countries, and some contries regulations on their citizens dealing in US currency (yes US currency since the compny of origin is located in the US)

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Interesting you have this sentiment. What's your take on this: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/2007/08/attitudes-to-rm.html#more" target="_blank">Attitudes Toward RMT</a>?</blockquote>I'm dating myself.. but back in '79, my uncle took me to the next town over to complete a trade. 1/2 ounce of pot in trade for a guy's password to his year old account on an online (300 baud ascii Star Trek knock off ) game.The next week, when I was visiting my grandparents again, (yah.. he was the poster child for the living in your parent's basement playing video games stereotype back then) he was watching a movie so I asked if I could play. He said "Sure..why not? I'm invincible now. Just don't sell anything."RMT is a short cut. In my opinion its no different than the cheat codes we used to get out of Compute Magazine for the old school RPGs. Its a quick route to the End Game or Win At All Cost mentality.There are a dozen excuses for why its justified. But, at the end of the day, one who purchases items, toons, etc. for cash, just doesn't want to earn it. Unfortunately, most games these days encourage such behaivor. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[tass]

lol only the leet platform gamers have gamesharks hahaha

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>These sorts of tools become part of the established elements of the game as determined by the playerbase. RMT is no different. As it becomes more pervasive, it becomes accepted as just another tool available to players. </blockquote>In all the years I've gamed, blogged, written editorials for magazines, interviewed developers on various internet radio stations... this is the most sobering and saddening statement I've ever heard.Sad because its true. And, eventually at that point, my gaming days are over. That depresses me.

[interstellarmatter]

<p>What you have right now is a propaganda campaign by the people in favor of RMT.  It's one of the oldest tools in the book.  If you convince people that everyone is doing it, how can it be wrong.  People see opportunity in making money doing something that they enjoy.  Even though, the reality is, you wouldn't be able to competite with the farmers.  They'd drive down price so low that you would be able to make profit.</p><p>The fact remains, that this isn't an acceptable idea with the majority of players.  Think about it.  RMT is nothing but free easy money for both Blizzard and SOE.  For every legal transaction, they get a cut.  Do you not think that if this was even semi-accepted by the majority of players, they'd take that opportunity?  Have you ever seen SOE not jump at the chance of making more money?</p><p>Sadly, even SOE is taking part in the propaganda encouraging the future being RMT.  Just like the players pushing it, they see dollar signs.  Take a look at the blogs by some of the top dogs at SOE, they write about the future of gaming being no subscriptions with RMT.  Sounds pretty good, eh?  Well, that's what they are trying to convince you.  Even though, I doubt that part of the subscription going away.  I see RMT being nothing but a money cow for these companies.</p><p>In the end, it's going to be the players that decide with their voice being their money.  No game is going to risk destroying their player base if the opinion stays overall against RMT.</p>

[1000Words]

ewww..I wouldn't play any game that is supported on the funds of RMT and not monthly subscriptions..that to me isn't a game, it's more like unlocking pieces of the game that you've already paid for, and for that I'll just stick to single player games.

[Dasein]

<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>What you have right now is a propaganda campaign by the people in favor of RMT.  It's one of the oldest tools in the book.  If you convince people that everyone is doing it, how can it be wrong.  People see opportunity in making money doing something that they enjoy.  Even though, the reality is, you wouldn't be able to competite with the farmers.  They'd drive down price so low that you would be able to make profit.</p><p>The fact remains, that this isn't an acceptable idea with the majority of players.  Think about it.  RMT is nothing but free easy money for both Blizzard and SOE.  For every legal transaction, they get a cut.  Do you not think that if this was even semi-accepted by the majority of players, they'd take that opportunity?  Have you ever seen SOE not jump at the chance of making more money?</p><p>Sadly, even SOE is taking part in the propaganda encouraging the future being RMT.  Just like the players pushing it, they see dollar signs.  Take a look at the blogs by some of the top dogs at SOE, they write about the future of gaming being no subscriptions with RMT.  Sounds pretty good, eh?  Well, that's what they are trying to convince you.  Even though, I doubt that part of the subscription going away.  I see RMT being nothing but a money cow for these companies.</p><p>In the end, it's going to be the players that decide with their voice being their money.  No game is going to risk destroying their player base if the opinion stays overall against RMT.</p></blockquote>You are confusing 3rd party RMT with publisher-run Virtual Item Purchase finance models. Virtual Item Purchase is a proven and popular method of running games, with the top games in this model boasting tens of mllions of accounts, compared to the few hundred thousand accounts most subscription-based games achieve. The market has demonstrated this model works and is quite popular - there's no propaganda needed. Rather, American companies are trying to catch on to a trend that is already domianting the Asian markets, and is quickly becoming the norm for emerging MMO markets like India. In other words, North American subscription-based gaming is not the norm at a global level, and perhaps that's why US games are lucky to get 500,000 total subscribers while Korean and Chinese games can easily manage 10 or even 100 times those numbers.

[Rythen16]

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jagone@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I would love for all the servers to go to the Exchange format.</p></blockquote><p>I'm glad that Exchange-enabled servers exist for those players who like them. But if the rest of the servers were officially Exchange-enabled, I would cancel my account immediately.</p><p>I have absolutely no interest at all in "the ease & convenience of buying characters & plat". I'd rather earn what I have by playing the game.</p></blockquote>I, too, do not want all servers to be exchange servers. However, it seems that a lot of posts infer that buying gear, plat, players would be required by all players. You could still play on an exchange server and never pay any RL money for anything. So, you would still earn all of your stuff.

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Rythen16 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>However, it seems that a lot of posts infer that buying gear, plat, players would be required by all players. You could still play on an exchange server and never pay any RL money for anything. So, you would still earn all of your stuff.</blockquote>I'd agree with you.. but then we'd both be wrong.With the farming for gear that would occur under those circumstances... all kinds of new problems arise. You can't earn anything if you can't get to it due to the lines you have stand in line for it. For those like me on a PvP server its even worse. Those camping for their turn at a named, it becomes a game of sitting ducks. On the PvE servers it'll be like the line for the newest roller coaster at the amusement park. No thanks. I prefer adventure and excitement over the proverbial cheese lines. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[cernst]

It is clear to me that I would never get along with any of you folks that play on a non - SE server.

[Xova]

<p>Interesting thread.</p><p>There have been several posts that I wanted to reply to, however I don't want to make my post too unwieldy with lots of citing, etc., so I'm just going to reply to the thread as a whole. Nothing I say should be taken personally, unless I specifically address it to someone.</p><p>I play on an Exchange server. As it happens, I play on Vox - the PvP Exchange server. I've been on that server since April 2006 - so not long after it opened. I chose Vox because I felt Nagafen was going to be way too overcrowded for my tastes, and I wasn't much interested in playing on an RP server at the time. Plus, the concept of Station Exchange intrigued me.</p><p>I'm also a single mom, who works a full-time job that I commute to. Between working 40+ hours a week and caring for my son, I really don't have a lot of playtime. I also strongly dislike playing games where it feels more like I am "working" and less like I am "playing". I get enough work at my real job - I don't want my game to feel like one.</p><p>Station Exchange is appealing to me because, after paying bills and seeing to the care of myself and my son, I can take my extra money and spend it on my chosen form of entertainment - gaming. I've never once felt I was cheating for buying 10 plat off the exchange, or using my card to purchase a character someone else didn't want. I'm paying for entertainment - for fun.</p><p>And that's really what it boils down to for me. I work hard enough at my actual job, and I make a decent living doing it. I don't want to come home after a long day and log onto a game where I then have to work again, just to have fun. And it's me who defines what "fun" is for me - not other players. Beyond that, SOE is who makes the rules here - not the players. Some might find it wrong from a moral standpoint to engage in RMT - even on an Exchange server. But the fact is SOE recognizes that RMT gaming is a valid style of play and have taken what I think is an innovative approach to addressing it by creating the Exchange servers. So it doesn't matter in the end if people think the Exchange servers are right or wrong - it's SOE's game and we play by their rules. </p><p>I think a lot of players have misconceptions about how Station Exchange works, and so not really understanding it it's easy to dismiss it. Most of what is bought and sold is plat and characters. Occasionally items, but in those cases it's usually Master spells. I don't often see gear for sale on the Exchange. It's not like we plunk down a credit card and go insta-Fabled. And interestingly enough, most people on the Exchange servers don't really use the feature all that often (if at all.) It's just nice to know it's there, and legal, if you want to use it.</p><p>I respect that for many people they get a certain feeling of accomplishment from harvesting for hours, making all their own gear and skills, farming certain mobs to get that elusive weapon, etc. If that is what you find to be fun then by all means do it! It's not what I find to be fun though, and it never fails to frustrate me that my chosen playstyle is written off as "cheating", "laziness", "unearned", etc. It's not. I work just as hard at my job as many others posting here do, and I don't want to be made out to be some kind of social pariah for playing on a server that supports my style of play.</p><p>I like the analogy of RMT being in the closet, with there being sort of a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. People on all servers participate in giving real-world money to third parties in exchange for ingame items/plat/etc. It happens folks, whether you like it or not. But I don't feel that making every server an SE server is the solution to the plat farming problem. We still have plat farmers on Vox (though they've tended to integrate themselves into the community, lol) and we still get the occasional gold spam. That said however, plat farming will always be a problem, in any game, because - whether people admit it or not - there is a big enough demand for RMT in gaming to support its existence.</p><p>A better solution, in all honesty, would be for SOE to more effectively market the Station Exchange servers so that players would have a greater understanding of how it all works, and so that players that do participate in illegal RMT would feel encouraged to roll on the SE servers where RMT is integrated into the game, and supervised by SOE, as opposed to playing on regular servers where RMT can result in a person getting banned.</p><p>Just my 2 cents...or 1 gold if you factor in the conversion rate. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[ke'la]

<cite>Seffrid wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So what you're really after is maintaining the same amount of transactions but driving down the price of them?</p><p>That seems to be what you're suggesting.</p><p>Now all you need to do is to explain to the 99% of players who want nothing to do with plat selling etc why it's ok to buy from a player but not from a website.</p><p>It's a nonsensical idea that would drive most of the players away and as such it will never be introduced, at least not in this game. I can foresee SOE launching a new game on the back of RMT but only if they see it being a viable proposition, and the experience thus far with games that are based on free-to-play topped up with RMT for special items and access to special areas is hardly encouraging.</p><p>Most players simply don't want RMT in any way, shape or form. Period.</p></blockquote><p>Accually, Free to Play, with blue ribbon areas(iteams) they you can get are very popular(just not in the states). The important thing with those types of games is that the free area is fafilling enough for the players that they don't have a problem with from time to time paying to access area's. </p><p>Oh, and SoE is developing a game like this, its called Free Relms, and accually looks fairly interesting.</p><p>All that said taking a game that is NOT an RMT game and turning it into one (while not giving players the choice to avoid it) is an EXTREEMLY bad idea and will make the NGE look like it was brillant.</p>

[ke'la]

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>What you have right now is a propaganda campaign by the people in favor of RMT.  It's one of the oldest tools in the book.  If you convince people that everyone is doing it, how can it be wrong.  People see opportunity in making money doing something that they enjoy.  Even though, the reality is, you wouldn't be able to competite with the farmers.  They'd drive down price so low that you would be able to make profit.</p><p>The fact remains, that this isn't an acceptable idea with the majority of players.  Think about it.  RMT is nothing but free easy money for both Blizzard and SOE.  For every legal transaction, they get a cut.  Do you not think that if this was even semi-accepted by the majority of players, they'd take that opportunity?  Have you ever seen SOE not jump at the chance of making more money?</p><p>Sadly, even SOE is taking part in the propaganda encouraging the future being RMT.  Just like the players pushing it, they see dollar signs.  Take a look at the blogs by some of the top dogs at SOE, they write about the future of gaming being no subscriptions with RMT.  Sounds pretty good, eh?  Well, that's what they are trying to convince you.  Even though, I doubt that part of the subscription going away.  I see RMT being nothing but a money cow for these companies.</p><p>In the end, it's going to be the players that decide with their voice being their money.  No game is going to risk destroying their player base if the opinion stays overall against RMT.</p></blockquote>You are confusing 3rd party RMT with publisher-run Virtual Item Purchase finance models. Virtual Item Purchase is a proven and popular method of running games, with the top games in this model boasting tens of mllions of accounts, compared to the few hundred thousand accounts most subscription-based games achieve. The market has demonstrated this model works and is quite popular - there's no propaganda needed. Rather, American companies are trying to catch on to a trend that is already domianting the Asian markets, and is quickly becoming the norm for emerging MMO markets like India. In other words, North American subscription-based gaming is not the norm at a global level, and perhaps that's why US games are lucky to get 500,000 total subscribers while Korean and Chinese games can easily manage 10 or even 100 times those numbers. </blockquote>I think the population of differance between Korean/Chinese games and "Western" games has less to do with the Finance model and more to do with the fact that there are about 100 times more gamers(over all) in the Asia and Indian Market then there are in the Western Markets. That said the VIP model of MMO design is cheching on and is likly to be as big a player over all in the MMO market as the Standard Model is.

[liveja]

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>So you are denying that PvP is heavily item-centric?</blockquote><p>No, I'm saying that because it IS heavily item-centric that RMT is a bad thing for PvP servers.</p><p>Obviously, some people disagree, & that's their right.</p>

[SnoesieQ]

<cite>Xova wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>*stuff*</p><p>I respect that for many people they get a certain feeling of accomplishment from harvesting for hours, making all their own gear and skills, farming certain mobs to get that elusive weapon, etc. If that is what you find to be fun then by all means do it! It's not what I find to be fun though, and it never fails to frustrate me that my chosen playstyle is written off as "cheating", "laziness", "unearned", etc. It's not. I work just as hard at my job as many others posting here do, and I don't want to be made out to be some kind of social pariah for playing on a server that supports my style of play.</p><p>*stuff*</p></blockquote><p>I understand that some people see EQ2 as "entertainment" - they should be able to log in and do whatever it is they want without having to earn it within the virtual world.</p><p>The majority of players however see EQ2 as a game. A game has certain rules, and although some people are better at mastering those rules or figuring out shortcuts (I dont mean exploits), they are the same for everyone.</p><p>Compare it to other games. Like tennis - would you expect that just because you earn money at your "real job" you should win the tennis tournament at your local club? Without actually putting in any time or effort training, learning to be better and overcoming your mistakes? Of course not. Especially not if you saw the way to win as to pay the referee off. Even if you pulled it off, its not just another "just as valid playstyle".</p><p>An MMO is not a platform game. An MMO is a social style game where you compete and cooperate with other people, and EQ2 is an RPG - which means that part of the game is to build your character and create the opportunities for that character. </p><p>If you wanted to play a platform game and just jump around and collect maximum amounts of mushrooms in a set time, of course you should be able to start the game and do that. But if you sign up for a game where character development is the main objective, then bypassing that is not really playing the game. And by engaging in platform style gaming inside an MMORPG you are hurting other peoples gaming experience.</p><p>As to SOE recognizing this as a valid playstyle... well, they make money on your RMT, and they are in the business of making money. I doubt they would put out a game where your objective is murdering little children just so they could make money - but as far as they are concerned, any playstyle which gives them money is a valid playstyle. Big surprise.</p><p>This is not about what SOE thinks they can cash in on, of course it annoys them that they are supplying the venue for an industry to make money on <i>their</i> customers. The question is what the players think about it.</p><p>There are many many virtual worlds in development, where you will be able to just log in and do whatever you feel like, without having to do any "boring things", because the game rules will be completely different than what they are in traditional MMORPGs. Maybe that will be a better solution for people who don't understand the game aspect of MMOs.</p><p>EDIT: Just wanted to say that I don't mean the Exchange servers specifically - since they are kept separate. I was more commenting on the reasoning around RMT being "valid" - the same arguments are usually also used by plat buyers in other games and servers.</p>

[Norrsken]

There is one pretty [Removed for Content] good reason that SE should not be on every server, and especially not pvp.Only US citizens can use it. It would give a specific demographic an advantage the rest of the world cant get at all.This is probably also the reason plat sellers exist on SE servers too. Even if they wanted, non US people cant use the SE service so they have to deal with the 3rd party sellers.

[Argul]

<p>This will cause a huge inflation of all items, then what're the players that aren't able to spend real life money on items supposed to do? Spend 10 plat on one piece of mastercrafted armor?</p><p>This is a terrible idea.</p>

[Zahmekos]

<cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Seffrid wrote:</cite><blockquote>Anyone wanting to extend SE also needs to be aware that SE is only available to US players. No players outside the USA (not sure about the Canadian situation) may partake of SE (although they can have characters on a SE server) due to legal constraints that SOE have never got around so far as I'm aware.</blockquote>Canada included, International financial laws, tax laws, laws regarding virtual properties are some of the reason there are issues. In the US there is only one primary tax/income organization to deal with, outside the US there are a multi organizations to deal with, add to the fact US laws governing trade with particular countries, and some contries regulations on their citizens dealing in US currency (yes US currency since the compny of origin is located in the US)</blockquote>Actually it had been advertised, as usually, for all players. After release they announced US only.Other US companys have no problems to sell stuff to europe. Second Life is also world wide as I know (I never played it) and there you can also buy and sell stuff.  Therefore it can't be such a big problem to do it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[LordPazuzu]

Um...no.  It'll drive the plat farmers out of the game alright...because the game would be next to dead.

[Vonotar]

<cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is one pretty [I cannot control my vocabulary] good reason that SE should not be on every server, and especially not pvp.Only US citizens can use it. It would give a specific demographic an advantage the rest of the world cant get at all.This is probably also the reason plat sellers exist on SE servers too. Even if they wanted, non US people cant use the SE service so they have to deal with the 3rd party sellers.</blockquote>This is true, I would be tempted to shunt some of my lesser liked alts to SE and sell, if (as an EU citizen) I was allowed to sell.

[Leatherneck]

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>Virtual Item Purchase is a proven and popular method of running games, with the top games in this model boasting tens of mllions of accounts, compared to the few hundred thousand accounts most subscription-based games achieve. The market has demonstrated this model works and is quite popular - there's no propaganda needed. Rather, American companies are trying to catch on to a trend that is already domianting the Asian markets, and is quickly becoming the norm for emerging MMO markets like India. In other words, North American subscription-based gaming is not the norm at a global level, and perhaps that's why US games are lucky to get 500,000 total subscribers while Korean and Chinese games can easily manage 10 or even 100 times those numbers. </blockquote><p>Umm..yah, but this isn't China.  This isn't India.  This isn't Korea.  Just because that's how the majority of people in those countries choose to play their games doesn't make it appropriate here.</p><p>Just because a plurality of MMO accounts choose to play those games that way doesn't make it right here.</p><p>If the SE servers ever get to the point where their population numbers are red all the time, I'm quite sure SOE is smart enough to open another server...and another.</p><p>SOE has proven they will open server types and close server types as the population dictates.  In the meantime, anyone can /movelog their character to a SE server and play the game that way if they wish.</p><p>No need for evangelizing on the forums for such a thing.  I'm sick of people trying to change the entire game to suit their playstyle.  Want to play on a SE server, fine.  Have at it. Just leave those of us who don't want to alone.  I don't campaign for the closure of your chosen method of playing.  The OP, on the other hand, is doing that very thing.  I don't want to play PVP, you don't see me campaigning to have other servers converted to carebear servers.</p><p>Actually the PVP community has been well-behaved about that sort of thing.  They are clever in pointing out distinct advantages in their chosen playstyle and they make some good points. I'm glad they have a place to play how they want, and I hope they gain enough population to play their way for as long as they want to, so long as it doesn't take away from non-PVPers.</p><p>I'm glad SE players have a place to play the way they want to, and hope they are allowed to do so for as long as they want, so long as it doesn't take away from the people who choose not to play that way (and by population numbers that's a majority of EQ2 players, not the reverse).</p>

[Bloodfa]

<p>Okay, now that I've caught my breath again ..... this is hands-down the most half-witted suggestion to date. </p><p>That is all.</p>

[Gromph]

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>Virtual Item Purchase is a proven and popular method of running games ... </blockquote>You are confusing EQ2 with a combat game. In a combat game you can buy an edge by buying better gear. That is beneficial for those who have a strong need of winning (and are prepared to spend money).In a leveling game such as EQ2 (PvE mainly) the game is over when the player have gotten all the improvements (level, spells, gear). Buying here is only a step towards game termination. Thus, the negative attitude towards the possibility to buy stuff from the EQ2 PvE players. As an example - think of a game where certain goals must be achieved. As long as these goals can be achieved through skill, time and dedication it remains challanging. But if you introduce a possibility to buy the goals the game dies immediately. I think that should be obvious for everyone.

[sayitaintso]

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jagone@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I would love for all the servers to go to the Exchange format.</p></blockquote><p>I'm glad that Exchange-enabled servers exist for those players who like them. But if the rest of the servers were officially Exchange-enabled, I would cancel my account immediately.</p><p>I have absolutely no interest at all in "the ease & convenience of buying characters & plat". I'd rather earn what I have by playing the game.</p></blockquote>You said you were seriously considering canceling you account when you found out that LoN is just a way for SOE to do RMT...but you are still here...Making all the servers all exchange is a sure bet to bring a premature end to the game...

[Kalem]

<cite>SnoesieQ wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xova wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>*stuff*</p><p>I respect that for many people they get a certain feeling of accomplishment from harvesting for hours, making all their own gear and skills, farming certain mobs to get that elusive weapon, etc. If that is what you find to be fun then by all means do it! It's not what I find to be fun though, and it never fails to frustrate me that my chosen playstyle is written off as "cheating", "laziness", "unearned", etc. It's not. I work just as hard at my job as many others posting here do, and I don't want to be made out to be some kind of social pariah for playing on a server that supports my style of play.</p><p>*stuff*</p></blockquote><p>I understand that some people see EQ2 as "entertainment" - they should be able to log in and do whatever it is they want without having to earn it within the virtual world.</p><p>The majority of players however see EQ2 as a game. A game has certain rules, and although some people are better at mastering those rules or figuring out shortcuts (I dont mean exploits), they are the same for everyone.</p><p>Compare it to other games. Like tennis - would you expect that just because you earn money at your "real job" you should win the tennis tournament at your local club? Without actually putting in any time or effort training, learning to be better and overcoming your mistakes? Of course not. Especially not if you saw the way to win as to pay the referee off. Even if you pulled it off, its not just another "just as valid playstyle".</p><p>An MMO is not a platform game. An MMO is a social style game where you compete and cooperate with other people, and EQ2 is an RPG - which means that part of the game is to build your character and create the opportunities for that character. </p><p>If you wanted to play a platform game and just jump around and collect maximum amounts of mushrooms in a set time, of course you should be able to start the game and do that. But if you sign up for a game where character development is the main objective, then bypassing that is not really playing the game. And by engaging in platform style gaming inside an MMORPG you are hurting other peoples gaming experience.</p><p>As to SOE recognizing this as a valid playstyle... well, they make money on your RMT, and they are in the business of making money. I doubt they would put out a game where your objective is murdering little children just so they could make money - but as far as they are concerned, any playstyle which gives them money is a valid playstyle. Big surprise.</p><p>This is not about what SOE thinks they can cash in on, of course it annoys them that they are supplying the venue for an industry to make money on <i>their</i> customers. The question is what the players think about it.</p><p>There are many many virtual worlds in development, where you will be able to just log in and do whatever you feel like, without having to do any "boring things", because the game rules will be completely different than what they are in traditional MMORPGs. Maybe that will be a better solution for people who don't understand the game aspect of MMOs.</p><p>EDIT: Just wanted to say that I don't mean the Exchange servers specifically - since they are kept separate. I was more commenting on the reasoning around RMT being "valid" - the same arguments are usually also used by plat buyers in other games and servers.</p></blockquote><p>The comparison of a video game to a sport is like comparing an apple to a head of lettuce. They're two different beasts. Buying plat on the exhange, or characters doesn't make you a cheater. It shortens the path of your progression, that's true, but in doing so you're able to focus on aspects of the game which are more enjoyable. You said it yourself...this is an rpg, and role playing that your character has a huge bank role which he enheritted, or has backers of some sort, is rather easy to do...and very much a role playing thing.</p><p>I think it's great that we have two servers where we can try out classes, and sell them if we find it's not a fit for us. It benefits the person selling, and the person who's looking to try out another class, but for whatever reason does not want to start from the ground up.</p><p>I for one do NOT want the SE model to be implemented on all servers. We had a poll about that when the feature was first being introduced. It's a system that shouldn't be forced on anyone. As someone else mentioned, if SOE determines that the exchange server is in high demand, they would open up another one. As it is right now, the server load is about medium.</p><p>EDIT:</p><p>Just wanted to add, that even though you can buy items, and plat on the exchange server, you are by no means in god mode.  You would still have to raid if you want the top gear, those top fabled items are no drop.  You still have to level your character, earn the AA's, complete the quests, etc.  Yes you have a leg up, because you don't need to farm the cash for gear...but that doesn't translate to god mode.</p><p>As for those that purchase characters, more often than not, those characters come with little AA's, and need quite a bit of work to get them up there.</p><p>If all of the EQ2 players that purchased plat from plat selling sites, would move over the exchange, we'd have one heck of a full server...bursting at the seems.  Still I wouldn't want all servers to be SE.  I do think that people who buy illegal plat, should come out of the closit so to speak, and move to the exchange server.</p>

[Finora]

<cite>Leatherneck wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>No need for evangelizing on the forums for such a thing.  I'm sick of people trying to change the entire game to suit their playstyle.  Want to play on a SE server, fine.  Have at it. Just leave those of us who don't want to alone.  I don't campaign for the closure of your chosen method of playing.  The OP, on the other hand, is doing that very thing.  I don't want to play PVP, you don't see me campaigning to have other servers converted to carebear servers.</p><p>Actually the PVP community has been well-behaved about that sort of thing.  They are clever in pointing out distinct advantages in their chosen playstyle and they make some good points. I'm glad they have a place to play how they want, and I hope they gain enough population to play their way for as long as they want to, so long as it doesn't take away from non-PVPers.</p><p>I'm glad SE players have a place to play the way they want to, and hope they are allowed to do so for as long as they want, so long as it doesn't take away from the people who choose not to play that way (and by population numbers that's a majority of EQ2 players, not the reverse).</p></blockquote><p>EXACTLY! Thank you for wording that so well.</p>

[liveja]

<cite>sayitaintso wrote:</cite><blockquote>You said you were seriously considering canceling you account when you found out that LoN is just a way for SOE to do RMT...but you are still here</blockquote><p>Yea, because guildies talked me out of throwing the baby away with the bathwater.</p><p>We've already talked about the notion of Mistmoore becoming an Exchange server, & the guildies that are important to me have indicated they would quit if that happened, so I would follow them out the door.</p><p>OTOH, I'm not quite at all sure what keeps YOU subscribing. You complain about this game far more than I ever have.</p>

[Dasein]

<cite>Gromph wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>Virtual Item Purchase is a proven and popular method of running games ... </blockquote>You are confusing EQ2 with a combat game. In a combat game you can buy an edge by buying better gear. That is beneficial for those who have a strong need of winning (and are prepared to spend money).In a leveling game such as EQ2 (PvE mainly) the game is over when the player have gotten all the improvements (level, spells, gear). Buying here is only a step towards game termination. Thus, the negative attitude towards the possibility to buy stuff from the EQ2 PvE players. As an example - think of a game where certain goals must be achieved. As long as these goals can be achieved through skill, time and dedication it remains challanging. But if you introduce a possibility to buy the goals the game dies immediately. I think that should be obvious for everyone.</blockquote>VIP systems tend to focus on fluff items more than anything. People buy new clothing, hairstlyes, house items and the like. Further, you are projecting your playstyle and goals onto the broader population. Different people play for different reasons, and have different objectives to accomplish. For example, someone might want to play to make the best and most popular RP establishment on their server. This means spending tons of plat on housing items to get just the right look. Would buying currency from a 3rd party or buying the house items directly from SOE undermine that goal, or would it facilitate the player doing what he really wants?

[Dasein]

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>So you are denying that PvP is heavily item-centric?</blockquote><p>No, I'm saying that because it IS heavily item-centric that RMT is a bad thing for PvP servers.</p><p>Obviously, some people disagree, & that's their right.</p></blockquote>Do you think that PvP servers should be dominated by small cadres of twinked-out, level locked players, with the rest of the population serving simply as fodder? Does that make for a healthy game? RMT helps level the playing field, and makes for more fair competion, as at lest those without the time or inclination to twink alts still have a chanc eto compete. Of course, the real issue is that PvP shouldn't be item-centric, but so far no developers have really cought on to that idea.

[liveja]

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>Do you think that PvP servers should be dominated by small cadres of twinked-out, level locked players, with the rest of the population serving simply as fodder?</blockquote><p>You say that as if it's something that for some reason, only those "small cadres" can accomplish, which is simply false.</p>

[interstellarmatter]

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>RMT helps level the playing field, and makes for more fair competion, as at lest those without the time or inclination to twink alts still have a chanc eto compete.</blockquote><p>How does it level the playing field?  Not everyone can afford to use real life money to twink a character.  It levels the playing field towards those individuals who have the extra money.  And that's why I don't like RMT.  The game should be based on what players can generate for themselves in the game.  </p><p>Everyone pays the same to be in game.  From that point, everyone has the equal opportunity to gain their fortune.  Introducing an outside economic force, just skews the game towards those individuals with cash.</p>

[Spyderbite]

<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>Everyone pays the same to be in game.  From that point, everyone has the equal opportunity to gain their fortune.  Introducing an outside economic force, just skews the game towards those individuals with cash.</p></blockquote>QFT....Ask any successful Eve Online or Second Life player how they got to where they are. I guarantee it wasn't through hard work. Unless of course one considers typing in 16 digits in to the credit card field "hard work". <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />