Now that DW weapons are gone, can we get rid of 2H?

[Ni]

As a member of a casual guild that just gained access to Deathtoll, I am dismayed by all the 2H weapons that drop there as well as in the other KoS raid zones. No melee class uses 2H in EQ2 other than as a fashion item. Not only do 2H lack in the DPS department, but they obviously preclude the defensive benefits of a shield. The GU38 boost to 2H is insufficient to rectify this issue.  Either make 2H the dps kings by far, or change give all 2H some signifcant defensive statistics. Better yet, change the Warrior Wisdom AA tree to a 2H tree that will rival the buckler line in DPS.

[Lana]

I haven't seen first hand what changes have been made to 2h, but I agree with you completely! I have never used a 2h weapon (always want to, I think they look pretty awesome usually) because the loss of avoidance and DPS was never worth it.If there was a 2h weapon spec for warriors that was even a little close to the power of the buckler line, I would switch instantly. I mean honestly, if you are swinging around a weapon that is about the same size as your body, you would think you could block a couple attacks with it....

[Dagorgil]

<cite>Nitz@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>As a member of a casual guild that just gained access to Deathtoll, I am dismayed by all the 2H weapons that drop there as well as in the other KoS raid zones. No melee class uses 2H in EQ2 other than as a fashion item. Not only do 2H lack in the DPS department, but they obviously preclude the defensive benefits of a shield. The GU38 boost to 2H is insufficient to rectify this issue.  Either make 2H the dps kings by far, or change give all 2H some signifcant defensive statistics. Better yet, change the Warrior Wisdom AA tree to a 2H tree that will rival the buckler line in DPS.</blockquote>The problem with making 2 handers the "DPS king" is that dual wielders/1 handers will be obsolete and will not be used by the classes that can use 2 handers.  I use a 2 hander on my Paladin when soloing, since I never go Defensive Stance while solo.  I <b>do</b>, however, have a 1h and shield for when I am grouping.  (Kinda silly to be stuck with 1 weapon, and no shield, right? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />)  Personally, I don't see why I should have to stand there and go AFK while attacking a mob solo while in defensive with 1h + shield.  OMG, that takes forever.  I'd rather take out my Double Headed Axe, go Master 1 Offensive, and whack the crap out of mobs at well over three times the speed of defensive.

[Sinful One]

i would love improvments on 2handers, there are so many atm and i love the look of them on my zerker, personally its alot better than walking around with a diddy shield <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Xanrn]

Well on test my 93 rating Bo that i copied over with, went to about 97.7 or something.

[Rast]

<p>The problem with 2 handers right now, is there is so very little difference DPS wise between going sword and board and 2 hander.  Right now, I can only get about 100dps more out of my two hander (I can't dual wield as a pally) than I can my one hander, and I lose my block ability to boot (which is around 25% even in offensive stance).</p><p>Just increasing the DPS isn't enough, the crit ranges need to be bettered as well as the speed factors need to be slowed down more.  There are only a handful of 2 handers that have a 3.5 or longer delay, so their crit damage is pathetically low.</p><p>Slow the weapons under 6 seconds down by 2 seconds (but not to more than 5.5, save the 6 delays for the avatar and soulfire weapons), adjust the damage range and then they may be worth the effort.</p>

[Kalem]

<p>I have to agree.  Two handers need a serious boost.  There's no reason why a 1 hand buckler build should out damage it.  You sacrifice defense with a two hander.  Typically in these types of games, that's where the big damage is.</p><p>It really should be </p><p>1hand + tower = lowest dps, highest defense</p><p>1hand + buckler = higher dps, better defense</p><p>dual wield and two hander = top dps with the least defense</p>

[Vatec]

<cite>Kalem wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I have to agree.  Two handers need a serious boost.  There's no reason why a 1 hand buckler build should out damage it.  You sacrifice defense with a two hander.  Typically in these types of games, that's where the big damage is.</p><p>It really should be </p><p>1hand + tower = lowest dps, highest defense</p><p>1hand + buckler = higher dps, better defense</p><p>dual wield and two hander = top dps with the least defense</p></blockquote>I would think it would be fairer to differentiate between DW and 2H simply because the 2H only needs to find/buy =one= weapon.  But it shouldn't be a huge difference.So:DW > 2H > 1H + buckler/round > 1H + tower/kiteThis also has the advantage of correlating with the scout/tank DPS arrangement.Scouts (who only have DW option) > Tanks (in offensive mode) > Scouts (in defensive mode)/Tanks (in "mixed" mode) > Tanks (in defensive mode)The easiest way to improve 2H, IMO, is to fiddle with the melee crit numbers because 2H benefits a lot more from bit crits.DW also still needs a slight boost, since current testing has shown that DW frequently doesn't beat 1H + buckler while still giving up blocking.  The alternative would be to nerf 1H + buckler, but we all hate nerfs, don't we?

[Wyrmypops]

<p>I'd love the whole 2hander shebang be looked at. </p><p>An AP line to boost two-handers. Improving the weapons themselves, or applying a blanket modifier to 2hand use. Anything really. </p><p>As it is, I've always got one or two on me, but never, ever equip them. Even when not tanking, the damage is dished out better by 1H+buckler. </p><p>It's compounded by so many quest rewards and drops being 2handers. The amount of times I've got one, and shrugged, as nice as it is it's just not gonna get used.  </p><p>It's extra weird for me, as coming from playing an EQ1 zerker,I could only use 2handers there, and avoided them in EQ2 for varieties sake and that I considered it more ferocious looking to dual wield (way before AP lines). I only switched to 1H+buckler a good while after AP lines kicked in. I fancied a visual change as much as nodding to the AP builds. </p><p>It's a shame, so many gorgeous 2handers, and they're all up on the broker for a tiny proportion of what the smaller weapons go for highlighting their lack of use.  All that content going unused. </p><p>Though in the meantime, I'd suggest further groovy quests and drops not consider a 2handed weapon so commonly, perpetuating the pages of brokered 2handers.  </p>

[Arleonenis]

and what you think about leaving 2h the way there are now but changing combat that every swing of 2h will have AoE effect? not big like 2m from warrior/crusader, but wouldnt this made this weapon desirable in some situations?

[Davish_Darkwolf]

Totally agree with the OP.The fact that a 1hander and a buckler is the  best option for a Berserker DPS  atm  is COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS and UNREALISTIC.2 Handers or Dual Wielding  SHOULD BE   "THE"  option for  pure DPS.Either lower  1h + buckler  damage   or  UP  2h damage considerably.Double attack with 1h + Buckler   shouldnt  exist.    Yes, you heard it right,  SHOULDNT  exist and its gimping  the  supposedly   DPS  trees  (2H/ 2W),  you know it, everybody knows it,  but the fact that you can tank AND  deal great amounts of damage is too hard to let go off,  but YOU KNOW it isnt right.Double attack should exist in the  dual wielding tree,  2Hander  tree  should have  better chances to get Critical hits,  or  hits that use  WEAPON DAMAGE.1h  and shield   IS the TANK tree,  tanks are there to soak up damage, so better skills to keep aggro  or  better stuns would be viable options.No matter how much people whine about losing  the actual  DPS  that 1h and Buckler tree gives,  YOU KNOW  it will go away  sooner or later cause it's the singlemost ridiculous "feature" that our Berserker class has.

[Zabjade]

<cite>Nitz@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>As a member of a casual guild that just gained access to Deathtoll, I am dismayed by all the 2H weapons that drop there as well as in the other KoS raid zones. <u><b>No melee class uses 2H in EQ2 other than as a fashion item.</b></u> Not only do 2H lack in the DPS department, but they obviously preclude the defensive benefits of a shield. The GU38 boost to 2H is insufficient to rectify this issue.  Either make 2H the dps kings by far, or change give all 2H some signifcant defensive statistics. Better yet, change the Warrior Wisdom AA tree to a 2H tree that will rival the buckler line in DPS.</blockquote><span style="color: #00cc00;">Brawlers and in particular Monks use two handers, because we draw less aggro away from the MT with them <i>(Monks are hast not DPS so we need slower weapons).</i> Ever since I got Riposted to death by a Named  in DoF that a Berzerker had no trouble with I use 2hb most of the time. (</span><i><span style="color: #00cc00;">Yeah Monks need more Uncontested Avoidance)</span></i>

[vanessapar]

<p>Agree with all above.</p><p>It's so strange to see an OT guard using an 1h+buckler outparse a pally with 2H.</p><p> The purpose is not to nerf the other class but please give us the possibility to obtain more crit or double attack with 2H ( proc on the weapon or specific AA tree).</p>

[Norrsken]

<cite>Nitz@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>As a member of a casual guild that just gained access to Deathtoll, I am dismayed by all the 2H weapons that drop there as well as in the other KoS raid zones. <b>No melee class uses 2H in EQ2 other than as a fashion item. </b>Not only do 2H lack in the DPS department, but they obviously preclude the defensive benefits of a shield. The GU38 boost to 2H is insufficient to rectify this issue.  Either make 2H the dps kings by far, or change give all 2H some signifcant defensive statistics. Better yet, change the Warrior Wisdom AA tree to a 2H tree that will rival the buckler line in DPS.</blockquote>Methinks you need to take a long, hard look on the next dps specced inquisitor you meet.

[FireDragon]

I agree.. 2 handers should give the best DPS.  You're missing out on the stats of two weapons (which tend to ive more than the 'higher' stats on the one 2 hander) and you're misisng out on damage..and frankly, you can grab two knives and stab twice at a tree.  See how much damage you do.Now grab a two handed axe and swing it at the tree.. which do you think dealt more damage?I think dual wield is ridiculous for non scouts myself.  And i think it pushes the boundaries of reality vs hollywood / fiction.  I know 'drizzt' was cool and all, but is fighting style is highly unrealistic (and yes, i'm quite aware this is a world where we have hit points and fling fire form our hands, <i>but theres some aspects of rewality i want to see translate over, and a huge baebarian berzerker wielding a huge axe instead of two toothpicks is one of them</i>)My idea to fix is:a fully stackable DPS / Haste / Crit bonus for fighter classes when wielding a 2 hander (easiest option, no weapon revamping neccacary, level based on the DPS bonus)Along with a 2 handed weapon AA tree.I bought a legendary 2 hand polearm for my Shadowknight, Crysta's rage.  I loved it.. then the next level or so i picked up a 1 handedtreasured  axe that had almost the exact same damage rating.  I cold also use a shield with it.  I was crushed =(

[Ni]

<cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nitz@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>As a member of a casual guild that just gained access to Deathtoll, I am dismayed by all the 2H weapons that drop there as well as in the other KoS raid zones. <b>No melee class uses 2H in EQ2 other than as a fashion item. </b>Not only do 2H lack in the DPS department, but they obviously preclude the defensive benefits of a shield. The GU38 boost to 2H is insufficient to rectify this issue.  Either make 2H the dps kings by far, or change give all 2H some signifcant defensive statistics. Better yet, change the Warrior Wisdom AA tree to a 2H tree that will rival the buckler line in DPS.</blockquote>Methinks you need to take a long, hard look on the next dps specced inquisitor you meet.</blockquote>I obviously meant to exclude Inquisitors by using "melee class" but it doesn't hurt that you pointed that out.

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>I use a two hander on my paladin because it looks cool. The fractions of a percent this way or that I could care less about. My Templar uses a two hander because his dps with spells is so low that a two hander on autoattack is better (and uses no power).</p><p>I refuse to use pikes because the attack animation is laughably bad (propping up a clothes line anyone?). Same for Greatstaves.</p><p>Give 2-handers a knockback chance.  </p>

[Xanrn]

<p>So Brawlers shouldn't be able to dual wield?</p><p>Also what the hell has a tree got do with which should do more dmg.</p><p>2 handed axe blow to the head versus a knife in each kidney or eyeball or two in your throat.</p><p>Or what about 2 hatchets versus a "tree".</p>