Appearance Item Restrictions

[Rothgar]

Even though I know how much people love reading 50-page threads, I thought I'd start a new one anyway.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />A change should be going out to the Test server later today that removes the previous restrictions on appearance items.You'll now be able to equip anything in an appearance slot that is <b>usable by your class</b>.Greg "Rothgar" SpenceEQ2 Programmer

[Bramwe]

<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[mellowknees72]

Yay!  Thanks, Rothgar!  This change makes sense.

[Sapphirius]

<p><3 Much love for ya.</p><p>Question: Do you know if the art team has any plans to introduce new and more cloth vest and pant designs? A lot of mages are tired of robes and hate the baggy pants.</p>

[Jesdyr]

that didnt take long...  (to save any more confusion, moving this to the top)<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><3 Much love for ya.</p><p>Question: Do you know if the art team has any plans to introduce new and more cloth vest and pant designs? A lot of mages are tired of robes and hate the baggy pants.</p></blockquote>Art takes much longer to put in and I would think there is no chance they would do anything until the new skeleton system is done and in place.

[canthii]

 /leghump

[kreepr]

<p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Thanks for the info Rothgar.</span></p>

[Pijotre]

<p>at Sapphy: Like Jesdyr said I doubt you can expect much new fashion stuff until all classes (first will be the Sarnak with RoK) use the new skeleton models.</p><p> at Rothgar: is there any chance to hide the apperance of a piece of cloth? Like if I wear my sacred garments would I be able to hide my gloves and my weapon (for I don't see it fitting to run around with gloves showing to that nice robe, nor with a might hammer on my back) or do I have to unequip it still (as in the whole new system doesn't change anything)?</p><p>Sincere regards and thanks for adding another useful tool (that hopefully becomes even more useful <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</p><p> Pij</p>

[Laiyo]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Even though I know how much people love reading 50-page threads, I thought I'd start a new one anyway.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />A change should be going out to the Test server later today that removes the previous restrictions on appearance items.You'll now be able to equip anything in an appearance slot that is <b>usable by your class</b>.Greg "Rothgar" SpenceEQ2 Programmer</blockquote>Magnificent!  This style is self-consistent, logical, and easy to understand; also provides plenty of room for player creativity for character customization.  Thanks!

[Kalyai]

<p>*bounces around happily* thank you!!!!</p><p>Thank you Thank you Thank you <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Sapphirius]

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><3 Much love for ya.</p><p>Question: Do you know if the art team has any plans to introduce new and more cloth vest and pant designs? A lot of mages are tired of robes and hate the baggy pants.</p></blockquote>that didnt take long... Art takes much longer to put in and I would think there is no chance they would do anything until the new skeleton system is done and in place. </blockquote><p>A little less sarcasm and a little more civility, please. I'm not asking about entirely new designs. I'm asking about the <i>original</i> vest and pant appearances being returned to crafted cloth vest and pants. It's a <b><u><i>question</i></u></b> as to whether or not he knows <i>if</i> the devs are looking into this issue, not another demand for change.</p>

[gaitano]

<h2><span class="l"><span><b>Halle</b>-<b>fricken</b>-<b>lujah</b>!</span></span></h2>Thank you.

[Novusod]

At long last after a thorough debate the prevailing wisdom won the day and there was much rejoycing. /RPThanks Rothgar

[Captain Apple Darkberry]

<cite>canthiius wrote:</cite><blockquote> /leghump</blockquote><span style="color: #ff3300;">QFE</span>

[Uumuuanu]

<p>YEAH OMG.  No warlocks wearing plate, woots.  </p><p>Thanks for clarifying and updating this feature that EVERYONE has been looking forward to being introduced.</p><p>It might evenboost the economy as people run out to boy new outfits just to have the look they are after.  </p><p>Nice work!</p>

[Aurumn]

<p>/hugs Rothgar</p><p> Thankies! You just made my day. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Bloodfa]

<p>Well, I think my Swashy's going to be masquerading as a clothie now.  Can't wait for somebody to try to sneak up on me and melee me, then just get poisoned for it.  Of course I expect everybody's going to try to look like a clothie now, since most drop fairly quickly in melee.  Why in the world would a tank or a healer advertise their class, when they can look like a caster?  Yeah, I know, PvP ruining everything. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I'd hope that there's implementation of some sort of restriction on PvP servers, ie. must be similar type of equipment or be faction gear, because this is going to be abused on a massive scale in PvP.</p>

[Krystara]

<p>Rothgar - I love you. Very. Much.</p><p>Thank you for this change.  I know the other thread got heated at times, but I'm glad that our desires for the broadest possible appearances was listened to and acted on.  </p>

[kartikeya]

Thank you!

[varilite]

Thank you

[Jesdyr]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><3 Much love for ya.</p><p>Question: Do you know if the art team has any plans to introduce <span style="color: #ff0000;">new and more</span> cloth vest and pant designs? A lot of mages are tired of robes and hate the baggy pants.</p></blockquote>that didnt take long... Art takes much longer to put in and I would think there is no chance they would do anything until the new skeleton system is done and in place. </blockquote><p>A little less sarcasm and a little more civility, please. I'm not asking about <span style="color: #ff3300;">entirely new </span>designs. I'm asking about the <i>original</i> vest and pant appearances being returned to crafted cloth vest and pants. It's a <b><u><i>question</i></u></b> as to whether or not he knows <i>if</i> the devs are looking into this issue, not another demand for change.</p></blockquote>The "not take long" was actually about the change back .. I figured they would have waited till after pushing it live. As far as the "new" ... you asked for "new" not original items to be put back. Forgive me for not knowing the exact details here but .. it is my understanding Soga models as well as fae models were added to the game after launch. If the artwork you want was removed before both of these went into the game, it is likely they do not have proper artwork for all the current models in the game.

[Lord Montague]

And there was much rejoicing.  yay!

[Akaran2]

<p>Question for clarification:It had been stated earlier that all guild status items would be able to be worn regardless of class (thinking Luminous Vanguard armor for my necro for the heck of it) - is this still possible? That kind of gear is restricted to plate classes... no real reason, it won't bother me much. Just curious about it.</p><p>Thanks!</p>

[Zeltaria]

Yay!! Thank you! =D

[Rast]

<p>You have my gratitude on the correction of this oversight.</p><p>/cheers</p>

[Tyndaleon]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Even though I know how much people love reading 50-page threads, I thought I'd start a new one anyway.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />A change should be going out to the Test server later today that removes the previous restrictions on appearance items.You'll now be able to equip anything in an appearance slot that is <b>usable by your class</b>.Greg "Rothgar" SpenceEQ2 Programmer</blockquote>Question:  does this apply only to armor slots....or is this same treatment being given to primary and secondary slots where, for instance, you could use one shield but use the appearance of another as well?

[quasigenx]

Three cheers! Hooray!

[Detherne]

<p>*dances*</p><p>YAY!! thank you thank you thank you <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Cayden]

Thank you thank you thank you thank you <u><i><b>THANK YOU</b></i></u>

[Erithe]

Yay!!! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  This rocks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[einar4]

<p> This is good news for many of my friends, well done.  I love my armor as it is, but I know of a few people that will be thrilled with this.   mm for that matter, I have a scout that may look good in leathers. </p>

[Megumiko01]

This is good news indeed.Thank you, EQ2 developers!

[Gaige]

Thanks Rothgar, amazing change! <3

[wiire]

Thank you!!!

[Captain Apple Darkberry]

<cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'd hope that there's implementation of some sort of restriction on PvP servers, ie. must be similar type of equipment or be faction gear, because this is going to be abused on a massive scale in PvP.</p></blockquote><span style="color: #ff3300;">Honestly, if anyone falls for it more than once...</span>

[troodon]

An excellent change, I heartily approve

[Bloodfa]

<cite>Apple@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'd hope that there's implementation of some sort of restriction on PvP servers, ie. must be similar type of equipment or be faction gear, because this is going to be abused on a massive scale in PvP.</p></blockquote><span style="color: #ff3300;">Honestly, if anyone falls for it more than once...</span></blockquote>It'll happen.  And it'll just be one more reason for title-huggers to stay where it's nice & safe.

[Vatec]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Even though I know how much people love reading 50-page threads, I thought I'd start a new one anyway.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />A change should be going out to the Test server later today that removes the previous restrictions on appearance items.You'll now be able to equip anything in an appearance slot that is <b>usable by your class</b>.Greg "Rothgar" SpenceEQ2 Programmer</blockquote>Not perfect, but a =huge= improvement and probably the best compromise solution.  Thanks for listening!Maybe I'll finally get some use out of all that Emerald Hide armor I've been accumulating from Zek ;^)

[Finora]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Even though I know how much people love reading 50-page threads, I thought I'd start a new one anyway.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />A change should be going out to the Test server later today that removes the previous restrictions on appearance items.You'll now be able to equip anything in an appearance slot that is <b>usable by your class</b>.Greg "Rothgar" SpenceEQ2 Programmer</blockquote><p>Oh goodness thankyou.</p><p>I just hope the few naysayers get some faith in the rest of us restored.</p>

[joebyrdw]

<p>Great change.</p><p>All Praise Rallos Zek.</p>

[einar4]

<p> Ok, tailors and armorcrafters, get busy now.  </p>

[Pelda]

*cheers* good change.

[Wilde_Night]

Hooray!!  <gets her Barrister Robe ready for her warden>

[xOnaton1]

Wooot! <span class="postbody">Greg "Rothgar" Spence </span>rules!<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Question: Do you know if the art team has any plans to introduce new and more cloth vest and pant designs? A lot of mages are tired of robes and hate the baggy pants.<p>A little less sarcasm and a little more civility, please. I'm not asking about entirely new designs. I'm asking about the <i>original</i> vest and pant appearances being returned to crafted cloth vest and pants. It's a <b><u><i>question</i></u></b> as to whether or not he knows <i>if</i> the devs are looking into this issue, not another demand for change.</p></blockquote>Hey Sapphy,I'm not sure which cloth vest and pants models you're looking for but the statless vendor cloth vests and pants still look the same as they used to. I think there are faction clothes available that look like the purple cloth that some of the brokers wear. Don't the Brethren in Nektulos sell some cloth clothes?If there's any existing appearance you're looking for, just ask in the Look + Feel forum. It's not too hard to find them now with the Dressing Room.Othesus - Dirge - Lucan DLereVaspar - Fury - Lucan DLere

[Gareorn]

<cite>Apple@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>canthiius wrote:</cite><blockquote> /leghump</blockquote><span style="color: #ff3300;">QFE</span></blockquote>Quit bogarting the leg and move aside.

[Writer Cal]

<p>Thank you!  Thank you!  Thank you!</p><p>*cheers and dances and offers white peach cheesecake to all*</p>

[Lodrelhai]

<p><span style="font-size: xx-large;color: #33ffff;"><b><i><u>THANK YOU!!!!</u></i></b> <b><span style="color: #ff3300;"><3</span></b></span></p>

[Cocytus]

<p>Thank you very much, Rothgar. It is greatly appreciated and I'm very happy to hear this news. I'm glad my efforts paid off! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I assure you the majority your fanbase will be greatly pleased as well <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Thank you for listening to us!</p>

[Cusashorn]

Meh.

[Sapphirius]

<cite>Othesus@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Wooot! <span class="postbody">Greg "Rothgar" Spence </span>rules!</p><p>Hey Sapphy,I'm not sure which cloth vest and pants models you're looking for but the statless vendor cloth vests and pants still look the same as they used to. I think there are faction clothes available that look like the purple cloth that some of the brokers wear. Don't the Brethren in Nektulos sell some cloth clothes?If there's any existing appearance you're looking for, just ask in the Look + Feel forum. It's not too hard to find them now with the Dressing Room.Othesus - Dirge - Lucan DLereVaspar - Fury - Lucan DLere</p></blockquote><p>Thanks, Vaspar. I'll be sure to check them out.</p>

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>Right...now for the changes to quest clickies *rolls up sleeves*</p><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Nice one Rothgar!</p>

[Catria]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><3 Much love for ya.</p><p>Question: Do you know if the art team has any plans to introduce new and more cloth vest and pant designs? A lot of mages are tired of robes and hate the baggy pants.</p></blockquote><p>/agree.... even some of the leather items have the baggy pants look and I hate it.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>PS - WTG on this change devs.  *happy dance*</p>

[Dreyco]

Awesome news, Rothgar.  You have my thanks, and the thanks of hundreds of other players with it i'm sure.

[Caelen]

Thank you so much for hearing us out, this is indeed a great change! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Zarafein]

Great news <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> thanks

[Snowdonia]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Even though I know how much people love reading 50-page threads, I thought I'd start a new one anyway.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />A change should be going out to the Test server later today that removes the previous restrictions on appearance items.You'll now be able to equip anything in an appearance slot that is <b>usable by your class</b>.Greg "Rothgar" SpenceEQ2 Programmer</blockquote>I never doubted you guys for a minute! I was so certain you lot would make the right choice and remove the restrictions I've been blowing money on the broker for looks for my Swashy. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Thanks so much!

[Lilj]

Thank you so much, it is very much appreciated. Thank you!

[Amphibia]

<cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Apple@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'd hope that there's implementation of some sort of restriction on PvP servers, ie. must be similar type of equipment or be faction gear, because this is going to be abused on a massive scale in PvP.</p></blockquote><span style="color: #ff3300;">Honestly, if anyone falls for it more than once...</span></blockquote>It'll happen.  And it'll just be one more reason for title-huggers to stay where it's nice & safe.</blockquote>Ooooh... abused massively like droag, gnoll and vampire illusions already are? Dude, c'mon, you gotto know that isn't true lol. Rothgar: That's awesome, thanks a lot! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[miliskel]

yay!..i can wear a beter looking robe

[TaleraRis]

<cite>Uumuuanu wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>YEAH OMG.  No warlocks wearing plate, woots.  </p></blockquote>As was mentioned numerous times, there is Bloodlines armor that lets cloth wearers have this look already in the game.And this is a good change, but I am curious about one thing. Is the shaft factor to cloth users just being set aside or is something in the works to improve on it, since that was the original reason given for the previous change?

[SnoesieQ]

<p>Thank you! </p><p> I was really looking forward to my ranger wearing leather and now she can. </p>

[Wyrmypops]

<p>If I could make cookies I'd send you some Roth'. </p><p>But, since I can't, I won't. </p><p>But it's the thought that counts, right?<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Larogi]

<p><span style="color: #3333ff;">Yeah! My Ranger can stay in leather!</span></p><p><span style="color: #3333ff;">Well, he could always, but know he gets the bonus of chain!</span></p>

[Zoodia]

[I cannot control my vocabulary] that change!If i see this correctly:Fighter can wear Plate, Chain, some Leather and Cloth (Robes, lol)Scout can wear Chain, Leather, ClothPriest can wear Plate or Chain (if class allows), Leather, ClothMages can wear ClothExcept from Faction Rewards i havent found any Plate, Chain or Leather items for Mages!And seriously i dont wanna see a Fighter or Scout in a robe! Kills the ambience imoKill the whole appearance slot idea! or give us the same possibilities as other classes. (fighter wear robes, then i want to wear plate!)

[Shiverr]

<p>T</p><p>h</p><p>a</p><p>n</p><p>k</p><p>s</p><p>!</p>

[Snowdonia]

<cite>Zoodia@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>Except from Faction Rewards i havent found any Plate, Chain or Leather items for Mages!</blockquote>Bloodlines Chronicles quest line.

[kreepr]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Apple@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'd hope that there's implementation of some sort of restriction on PvP servers, ie. must be similar type of equipment or be faction gear, because this is going to be abused on a massive scale in PvP.</p></blockquote><span style="color: #ff3300;">Honestly, if anyone falls for it more than once...</span></blockquote>It'll happen.  And it'll just be one more reason for title-huggers to stay where it's nice & safe.</blockquote>Ooooh... abused massively like droag, gnoll and vampire illusions already are? Dude, c'mon, you gotto know that isn't true lol. Rothgar: That's awesome, thanks a lot! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </blockquote><span style="color: #ff0000;">LOL if we keep agreeing on things hell might be in trouble?!?!?!?! LOL Bloodfang-- Come on no one can truly take advantage of this at all people need to just look at buffs like they should and no one will be fooled. </span>

[Freliant]

Well, I hope I am wrong... but with this change, any distinguishable class distinctions brought about by what the person is wearing has now gone out the window. SOE has on its hands the first Tolkien style MMO where the classes will not show what they normally wear. Chalk one up to the whiners... now don't expect them to back down whenever another change they don't like comes in... they will just kick scream and yell until they get it their way... spoiled brat syndrome if you will. --- I'm out.

[Glamourpuss]

<span style="font-size: medium;color: #0000ff;font-family: helvetica;">Thank you, Rothgar! <hug> <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></span>

[Zarafein]

<cite>Zoodia@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>[I cannot control my vocabulary] that change!If i see this correctly:Fighter can wear Plate, Chain, some Leather and Cloth (Robes, lol)Scout can wear Chain, Leather, ClothPriest can wear Plate or Chain (if class allows), Leather, ClothMages can wear ClothExcept from Faction Rewards i havent found any Plate, Chain or Leather items for Mages!And seriously i dont wanna see a Fighter or Scout in a robe! Kills the ambience imoKill the whole appearance slot idea! or give us the same possibilities as other classes. (fighter wear robes, then i want to wear plate!)</blockquote><p>and here we go again.Let me shock you before this goes live:</p><p> <img src="http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:zHVpbJ9k5yzeUM:http://www.norwegian-pentagram.com/images/ridder.gif" alt="" width="77" height="130" border="0" /></p><p>Oh and its hard to find any swashbuckler picture from movies and so on were they actually wear chain.</p>

[Zoodia]

<cite>Snowdonia@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zoodia@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>Except from Faction Rewards i havent found any Plate, Chain or Leather items for Mages!</blockquote>Bloodlines Chronicles quest line.</blockquote>Only the chestpiece and leggings are shiny plate!  Shoulders, Hands, Boots have a matt silver-green touch which doesnt fit to chest&legs. And everyone can wear it, its not special. Also if every mage starts now to wear these items there is no diversity!!! Its boring if everyone wears Bloodline Chronicle armor lol.Give us plate or set "all mages" attribute to all those robes without class requirement. Or remove those appearance slots forever, which would be the best solution imo. Im not assisting tanks in robes, thats a promise <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Ofhel]

<p>Thank you very much! <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Zoodia]

<cite>Lhangion@Innovation wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>same possibilities as other classes. (fighter wear robes, then i want to wear plate!)<p>and here we go again.Let me shock you before this goes live:</p><p> <img src="http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:zHVpbJ9k5yzeUM:http://www.norwegian-pentagram.com/images/ridder.gif" border="0" alt="" width="77" height="130" /></p><p>Oh and its hard to find any swashbuckler picture from movies and so on were they actually wear chain.</p></blockquote>That picture is ok, i have no problem with a fighter dressed like that knight on that picture. Cloak with some kind of doublet? i dont know the english word for it. But the robes that are actually ingame dont fit for a fighter.And leather items for swash is actually a good change no doubt.

[Hukklebuk]

Bravo!

[Rustle]

<p><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">THANKYOU!</span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial;">I'd have posted sooner, but I've had to explain my cries of glee to my co-workers. I don't think they understand.  They're kind of looking at me odd right now. /sigh</span></p><p><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Now can we get those sharks with frickin' laser beams on their heads?</span></p>

[Hamervelder]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Even though I know how much people love reading 50-page threads, I thought I'd start a new one anyway.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />A change should be going out to the Test server later today that removes the previous restrictions on appearance items.You'll now be able to equip anything in an appearance slot that is <b>usable by your class</b>.Greg "Rothgar" SpenceEQ2 Programmer</blockquote>Woohaw!  Great news!

[cr0wangel]

<cite>Zoodia@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>or give us the same possibilities as other classes. (fighter wear robes, then i want to wear plate!)</blockquote>Want a tower shield too? /dump his shield on him   Oh, is it too heavy?  -snickers-

[Jesdyr]

<cite>cr0wangel wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zoodia@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>or give us the same possibilities as other classes. (fighter wear robes, then i want to wear plate!)</blockquote>Want a tower shield too? /dump his shield on him   Oh, is it too heavy?  -snickers-</blockquote>His post was valid. Maybe we should get a post going about how UNFAIR this is and try to get this delayed so that they can make anything go into the appearance slots ?

[Zoodia]

<cite>cr0wangel wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zoodia@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>or give us the same possibilities as other classes. (fighter wear robes, then i want to wear plate!)</blockquote>Want a tower shield too? /dump his shield on him   Oh, is it too heavy?  -snickers-</blockquote>Hey i get +85 STR from my Voice of the Tyrant buff. No problem for me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Vatec]

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, I hope I am wrong... but with this change, any distinguishable class distinctions brought about by what the person is wearing has now gone out the window. SOE has on its hands the first Tolkien style MMO where the classes will not show what they normally wear. Chalk one up to the whiners... now don't expect them to back down whenever another change they don't like comes in... they will just kick scream and yell until they get it their way... spoiled brat syndrome if you will. --- I'm out.</blockquote>A.  What's the big deal with "class distinctions?"  Half the time I can't tell templars from scouts anyway, since their "plate" armor looks an awful lot like some of the more popular "chain" armors.  Then we've got the the "chain" armors that look like "leather" and the "leather" armor that looked like "cloth."  A =lot= of the different armor designs have been recycled from tier to tier, and not always representing the same "weight" armor. Now we'll just have more =option= as to which cloth, leather, chain, or plate look to wear.B.  In any case, before the fluff slots, tanks could wear plate, chain, leather, and cloth.  And after the change, tanks will be able to wear ... plate, chain, leather, and ... cloth!  Wow!  So much for "class distinctions...."C.  Maybe you don't consider Final Fantasy to be a "Tolkien style MMO," but their warriors have been wearing plate armor that makes them look like a swashbuckler in cloth, right down to the big plumed hat, for at least three years.  I'm sure I can come up with other examples if I poke around a bit....D.  There's a difference between whining and opposing a design decision using logic.  Maybe you didn't read all 50 pages of the previous thread, but I did.  And there were a =lot= of logical reasons given for removing the restrictions, just as there were logical reasons for imposing even more restrictions.  The devs weighed the issues and decided this was the best compromise between the two extremes.

[quasigenx]

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cr0wangel wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zoodia@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>or give us the same possibilities as other classes. (fighter wear robes, then i want to wear plate!)</blockquote>Want a tower shield too? /dump his shield on him   Oh, is it too heavy?  -snickers-</blockquote>His post was valid. Maybe we should get a post going about how UNFAIR this is and try to get this delayed so that they can make anything go into the appearance slots ?</blockquote>Please go read the 50+ page thread, where you will find that this was discussed at GREAT length, and that the current solution was the run-away landslide winner. Also see the many, many posts by mages who agree with the change.

[Jesdyr]

<cite>quasigenx wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Please go read the 50+ page thread, where you will find that this was discussed at GREAT length, and that the current solution was the run-away landslide winner. Also see the many, many posts by mages who agree with the change.</blockquote>I did read it .. his post is still a valid request. These rules are not fair .. the Devs know this but gave into the more vocal of the community. Personally, either way is fine with me. Just because I am ok with it does not change the argument.

[Sapphirius]

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I did read it .. his post is still a valid request. These rules are not fair .. the Devs know this but gave into the more vocal of the community. Personally, either way is fine with me. Just because I am ok with it does not change the argument. </blockquote><p>I'd rather see the game cater to the <i>majority</i> than the minority. <i>Too many times</i>, the devs have caved into the minority and punished the majority for the voices and complaints of only a small handful of people. <i>Too many times</i>, their solution to "improving" a class or small group of people hasn't been to make them better but to make everybody else worse. It's about time they stepped forward and went the opoosite direction.</p><p>Already there are a number of very unpopular changes in GU 38 from the status item nerf to the 2 -econd casting bar to interact with widgets to the Devastation Fist nerf that made the ability practically useless in the area that brawlers needed it <i>most</i> even to the new rule of widgets taking scouts and mages out of stealth and invis.</p><p>This is the one thing that a lot of people agreed would somewhat make up for the negative changes happening in the coming update, and with its previous restrictions, it was not only arbitrary and contradicted itself, but it disappointed a <i>huge</i> number of people.</p><p>Much love to ya, Rothgar! <3</p>

[miliskel]

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>His post was valid. Maybe we should get a post going about how UNFAIR this is and try to get this delayed so that they can make anything go into the appearance slots ?</blockquote>yup, shamefully devs dont listen to mages as it seems, as well as brawlers and bards..but they get options in thisd change..

[Rast]

<p>Cool, now I won't have to tank a raid in status clothing in protest! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>(didn't want to do it, but would of)</p><p>Now, I just need to find out what I'm going to wear <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Sapphirius]

<cite>Jalathan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Now, I just need to find out what I'm going to wear </p></blockquote>Find your old cobalt. It was smexy! Of course, the parade armor is really nice too, but the cobalt looked good on Jal. Oh! and the venders do have the non-stat armor in the original appearances <i>before</i> LU 24 screwed appearances over. (Curse you, Beghn! Death by chocolate for j00!) That indium plate would look really <i>hawt</i> on Jal I'm sure. All that silver with the blue flame motif...

[Rast]

<p>I was thinking about the new feysteel look (the white plate with gold embossing) or trying to gather a set of the t5 fabled rubicite which is kind of a white satiny look.</p><p>Don't think I still have my cobalt though and I didn't have a complete set of the prenerf stuff anyways (so it wasn't matching).</p>

[Jesdyr]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>This is the one thing that a lot of people agreed would somewhat make up for the negative changes happening in the coming update, and with its previous restrictions, it was not only arbitrary and contradicted itself, but it disappointed a <i>huge</i> number of people.</p></blockquote>So .. this change that everyone agrees has no effect on actual gameplay, makes up for "gameplay altering" changes that people are so very upset about that they were more vocal about changes to this fluff than the changes they think are negative?Every GU seems to have people coming out and crying DOOM and GLOOM. Every GU destroys the game if you read these forums. The previous restrictions were fair and did exactly what the system was being designed to do. People wanted more and SoE is giving it to them. I say why stop there? It should be anyone can wear anything they want or the old rules should go back in.LONG LIVE THE TANK MAGE !  ([Removed for Content] I miss UO)

[Jesdyr]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>the non-stat armor in the original appearances <i>before</i> LU 24 screwed appearances over. (</blockquote>So I have been wearing the old look all this time? ... wow .. Oh ..someone pointed out the armour changes being made in this GU also revert much of the player crafted plate to the old look (dont know if it is true).. Domino has said she plans on looking at the leather and cloth in the future as well, so you might get your wish.

[Vonotar]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Even though I know how much people love reading 50-page threads, I thought I'd start a new one anyway.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />A change should be going out to the Test server later today that removes the previous restrictions on appearance items.You'll now be able to equip anything in an appearance slot that is <b>usable by your class</b>.Greg "Rothgar" SpenceEQ2 Programmer</blockquote>Fantastic Rothgar, thank you for listening to the community, this <b>mage</b> appreciates it.P.s.  You can all wear whatever robes you want, I don't care, just be aware they mess up your guild cloak.Vonotar...  the mage that doesn't wear robes!

[Sapphirius]

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Every GU seems to have people coming out and crying DOOM and GLOOM. Every GU destroys the game if you read these forums. </blockquote>Yes, it does. Including <i><b>you</b></i>.

[kreepr]

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>This is the one thing that a lot of people agreed would somewhat make up for the negative changes happening in the coming update, and with its previous restrictions, it was not only arbitrary and contradicted itself, but it disappointed a <i>huge</i> number of people.</p></blockquote>So .. this change that everyone agrees has no effect on actual gameplay, makes up for "gameplay altering" changes that people are so very upset about that they were more vocal about changes to this fluff than the changes they think are negative?Every GU seems to have people coming out and crying DOOM and GLOOM. Every GU destroys the game if you read these forums. The previous restrictions were fair and did exactly what the system was being designed to do. People wanted more and SoE is giving it to them. I say why stop there? It should be anyone can wear anything they want or the old rules should go back in.LONG LIVE THE TANK MAGE !  ([I cannot control my vocabulary] I miss UO)</blockquote><span style="color: #ff0000;">It was one thing we where looking forward to in all the crap changes that are possible coming down the pipes. So don't fret your self those issues have threads as well and one quite large at that, I think 30 some pages last I looked. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Smile sunshine your day will get better.... LOL</span>

[Lord Montague]

Looking at some of the replies, I can see yet again that there is clearly no pleasing some people.  Classic as ever.

[Sapphirius]

<cite>Seirrah@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Looking at some of the replies, I can see yet again that there is clearly no pleasing some people.  Classic as ever.</blockquote>What's the saying? You can't please all of the people all of the time? Bah! Now I'm gonna have to go look it up.

[CalladenWaterford]

<p>Thank you so much developers! You have no idea how excited I am!</p>

[Jesdyr]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Every GU seems to have people coming out and crying DOOM and GLOOM. Every GU destroys the game if you read these forums. </blockquote>Yes, it does. Including <i><b>you</b></i>.</blockquote>I never said it was Doom and gloom .. Actually I think I keep downplaying the effects of most changes. I often take the "adapt and overcome" stance. Maybe that is why I play a coercer. I think I have stated many times all I want is the appearance stuff in the game in any form. However I also have been defending the less supported views the whole time. I went from the Keep version 2 stance to the "well if you are going this far, go all the way" stance. Now if the people using who wanted "freedom" are ok with the "current" form then I guess I selfish is the right word. The fight is over because they got what they wanted. So what if this does not actually give EVERYONE the freedom they were crying for. That does not matter at all since they now have what they want. 1/2 the battle was won ... why not finish it ?  (this is a statement to all the people who were using the "what does it hurt" or "well you can because of faction rewards" logic to support the "current" system. These statements hold true for removing class restrictions as well)

[Masoma]

Well, I had no problem with the original restrictions on the appearance items.  I am happy that they did retain the requirement that your class be able to wear the fluff item chosen.  I too am excited about customizing our looks and eagerly anticipate getting rid of the green shoulders and bright blue chest combo.

[Vatec]

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Every GU seems to have people coming out and crying DOOM and GLOOM. Every GU destroys the game if you read these forums. </blockquote>Yes, it does. Including <i><b>you</b></i>.</blockquote>I never said it was Doom and gloom .. Actually I think I keep downplaying the effects of most changes. I often take the "adapt and overcome" stance. Maybe that is why I play a coercer. I think I have stated many times all I want is the appearance stuff in the game in any form. However I also have been defending the less supported views the whole time. I went from the Keep version 2 stance to the "well if you are going this far, go all the way" stance. Now if the people using who wanted "freedom" are ok with the "current" form then I guess I selfish is the right word. The fight is over because they got what they wanted. So what if this does not actually give EVERYONE the freedom they were crying for. That does not matter at all since they now have what they want. 1/2 the battle was won ... why not finish it ?  (this is a statement to all the people who were using the "what does it hurt" or "well you can because of faction rewards" logic to support the "current" system. These statements hold true for removing class restrictions as well)</blockquote>Already began that campaign in the Look and Feel section.  First step is to expand the options available to cloth wearers.  And yes, that should probably include more mage-only equipment.There was very little chance SOE was going to unrestrict everything.  It would be nice, but it's unlikely, at least not until they've seen the results of implementing it this way first.  If this goes smoothly, maybe they'll consider it in the future.  We can always hope.

[Sapphirius]

<cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote>Already began that campaign in the Look and Feel section.  First step is to expand the options available to cloth wearers.  And yes, that should probably include more mage-only equipment.There was very little chance SOE was going to unrestrict everything.  It would be nice, but it's unlikely, at least not until they've seen the results of implementing it this way first.  If this goes smoothly, maybe they'll consider it in the future.  We can always hope.</blockquote><p>Thanks, Vatec! I'll be sure to go check that out. I find it funny that this poster bashes me for asking about cloth appearances and then bashes me for "not finishing the battle." I think everyone knew that the restrictions would not be removed completely. It was entirely wishful thinking. That's probably why so much of the 50 page thread was devoted to discussions regarding the dismal appearence of post-LU 24 crafted cloth armor (which BTW was<i> after both</i> EOF and SOGA models, so the comment about not having the proper artwork for the original cloth vests and pants was ill-informed).</p><p>BTW, can you post a linky to that thread for the cloth wearers?</p>

[Laiyo]

Before this change, the old rules "shafted" everyone. It was no better for mages, than it was for anyone else. Mages, under the old system, could still only wear cloth.  As was pointed out, there are a few pieces of cloth that have plate appearance, so mages could wear those if they wanted the appearance of plate. Everyone else could wear cloth as well because status items and faction rewards etc, could be worn over armor of any weight. Under those rules mages and plate tanks were "shafted". Those were inconsistant, poorly implemented rules. All of this was discussed extremely thoroughly in the other thread.Under the new rules, mages are in the same boat they were in previously but now the options open up significantly for all of the other classes.  This is a good thing!  The previous rules were punitive because in order for players to wear what they perceived as their character concept they were pushed into suffering game-mechanics penalties (i.e. significant loss of mitigation) for something that is purely aesthetic in nature. The current rules do not do this. Mages can wear plate if they want. Cloth armor with the appearance of plate still exists. There are not that many choices  graphically but that seems to be an inherent problem to all armor.A few arguments are still being used and are still flawed.1) Plate tanks can now wear cloth armor over their plate and this is bad. The problem with this argument is that at every iteration of this system Plate Tanks (indeed everyone) could wear cloth over their armor. The new system (wear whatever your class can wear) didn't create this problem. It is arguable whether or not this is even actually a problem.2) Mages can't wear plate and this is bad.The problem with this argument is that there is cloth armor with the appearance of plate that mages can wear. Thus the argument could be "there isn't enough variety in plate styles for mages" but that's a separate argument. Variation in armor styles is a well noted issue.3) The whiners got their way.This problem with this argument is that it is demonstrably false. The vast majority of posts in the former thread were well reasoned, structured, and supported with facts. Yes, the other thread was heated at times but that's to be expected on a forum and it never spiralled out of control. What happened was not that the whiners got their way, but logical and self-consistant rules won out that didn't punish any single group: everbody can wear whatever their class could already wear.The next step, in my opinion, should not be to try and reinstitute artificial restrictions or complain that dev's didn't listen (listening is not the same as agreeing) but to see what may be coming in terms of expanding armor graphics for all classes, as well as status and faction reward armor graphics or maybe to discuss whether or not opening the fluff system further is desirable.  I think it would be.In short, this new system opens the door for player creativity.  Some classes have more leeway than others, but no class is artificially restricted. By allowing players this level of customization it could (and probably will) significantly improve player attachment to their characters and word will get out that EQ2 (unique and first in the fantasy mmorpgs) has really opened the door to player creativity and opportunity to realize character concepts.  That sort of news spreads fast and could bring new players  to the game and give incentive for old players to remain.Edit: Corrected a typo that made one sentence ambiguous.

[Armawk]

<cite>Laiyo wrote:</cite><blockquote>logic and self-consistant rules won out </blockquote><p>Weight of posters won out. </p><p>Ive taking a strictly "whatever.. its up to sony I guess" line on this and saying nothing here (Ill let yo guys be happy), but I dont think Ill ignore a statement that the majority = the best argued. Especially as the vast bulk of posts said "I want this to be unrestricted" and nothing more substantive. Not criticising those people, and not criticising sony especially.. but noone "won" a logical argument on this.</p>

[Laiyo]

Logical and self-consistant rules won out. That is what I said and the rules that have now been put forward are logical and self-consistant.  Edit: Ah there is a typo in the above post by me, that may be the source of confusion.

[Jesdyr]

<cite>Laiyo wrote:</cite><blockquote>Logical and self-consistant rules won out. That is what I said and the rules that have now been put forward are logical and self-consistant.  </blockquote>The are no more logical than the other rules. Actually like I said, using the "logic" used to support these rules also demands the rules be change to allow people to wear anything regardless of class.<span class="name"><b>Sapphirius </b></span>- I admitted I wasnt sure about the whole EoF/SOGA with armour changes. Also, I am not really bashing you .. I am pointing out the inconsistency of the most vocal people in the other thread as a way to support making this a great change that will be fair for all people. Not this watered down restrictive system we currently have that only causes "shaft factor" for mages. I am putting aside my own personal wants here (no tanks tanking in cloth) and looking out for the good of all players!<span class="name"><b>Vatec </b></span>- I am all for more items/armour/../.. however splitting up the voice only makes it seem smaller .. lets keep it here where it belongs! Lets make this thread 900 posts long (40% me I am sure) and make them hear <strike>me</strike> US !

[Sapphirius]

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><span class="name"><b>Vatec </b></span>- I am all for more items/armour/../.. however splitting up the voice only makes it seem smaller .. lets keep it here where it belongs! Lets make this thread 900 posts long (40% me I am sure) and make them hear <strike>me</strike> US !</blockquote><p>Except that this was a <i>solution</i> post to another thread and is, in all likelihood, <i>not</i> being read by the people who <i>can</i> make these changes happen. The people who can make these changes happen are in the <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/forums/show.m?forum_id=2582" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Look and Feel</a> forum. The <i>only</i> reason I asked was because sometimes devs talk to each other, and since Rothgar has actually been <i>communicating</i> with us, it would be nice to see if he happens knows anything regarding it.</p><p>BTW, This is the link to Vater's post regarding <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=381152" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">cloth armor appearances</a>.</p>

[Laiyo]

My apologies but the current rules (while not ideal in my opinion) are logical.  I will say that I am approaching this issue as a GM might in a pen and paper RPG and not with the focus of game lore or things of that nature.  So while the rule may seem illogical to "reality" or "game-lore" it is logical to the game mechanics as they exist.Currently:Classes are allowed to wear certain categories of armor. Therefore, in the appearance armor slot a class can equip whatever category of armor it is allowed to wear.Compared to:Classes are allowed to wear certain categories of armor. Therefore, in the appearance amor slot a character can only equip armor that is allowable by the characters class and is the same categorgy or heavier as what they are wearing in their active slot; except in the cases of status items, faction rewards, and certain other items that are lighter category but still wearable over any armor.The current system is not ideal to me.  I think the ideal is to open it up entirely and let people really explore character concepts and designs. However, as someone mentioned previously, there may be a desire to see how the system will work and what effects it will have before opening the floodgates. I can understand that, and at least the current rules for appearance armor are logical and self-consistant.I think the current system is reasonable, logical and self-consistant.  I also think opening it entirely is reasonable, self-consistent, though less logical to the game-mechanics, but with a whole lot of potential for player enjoyment! I also think that restricting the category of the armor in the fluff slot to match the category of the armor in the active slot is logical, but highly restrictive, and does not really add that much to the game.

[EvilIguana9]

A lot of people get their jollies by doing things that interrupt the gameplay experience of others.  This change means that people now have a new avenue to pursue that.  The armor type restrictions existed as a means of enforcing a pleasing level of visual consistency with regards to class type.  Certain classes had certain looks that fit in with EQ2's take on high fantasy convention.  This is no longer the case.  People can now look however the heck they want whenever the heck they feel like it, making one of the main flavor aspects of class selection meaningless.  A lot of people are saying that they are relieved by this new development because they want to look a certain way and this allows them to.  That's bull.  You got to choose the general direction of how your character looks already when you chose your class.  Sure there are some limitations, but they exist in order to add a degree of logic to the gameworld.  Like it or not the basic physical laws of our world apply to Norrath as well.  Metal plate is more protective than thin cloth at the expense of weight and some freedom of movement.  Now people will start wearing wacky armor types for their own amusement at the expense of other peoples' immersion.  They tell themselves that they are not affecting anybody else yet they would not be doing it if it didn't turn heads and otherwise disturb people in a negative way.  It's not "look at my bad-[Removed for Content] character slaying this demonic beast", it's "LOLZ, I KILLD TEH DRAGIN IN A ROBE LOOK AT MEZ LOLZ.  I'M A NONCONFORMIST!".  That's my problem with it. 

[Jesdyr]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>Except that this was a <i>solution</i> post to another thread and is, in all likelihood, <i>not</i> being read by the people who <i>can</i> make these changes happen. The people who can make these changes happen are in the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/forums/show.m?forum_id=2582" target="_blank">Look and Feel</a> forum. The <i>only</i> reason I asked was because sometimes devs talk to each other, and since Rothgar has actually been <i>communicating</i> with us, it would be nice to see if he happens knows anything regarding it.</p><p>BTW, This is the link to Vater's post regarding <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=381152" target="_blank">cloth armor appearances</a>.</p></blockquote>And I love the post .. however it is not a solution to this issue .. all that adds is more cloth .. I want leather, chain and plate. I dont want just the merchant stuff. I want all of it. The merchant stuff was not good enough for the chain/plate users, why should it be enough for mages ?

[Jesdyr]

<cite>EvilIguana966 wrote:</cite><blockquote> That's my problem with it.  </blockquote>Nah .. we lost that argument. Give into the dark side and join me in my struggle for <strike>World domination</strike> freedom for people.

[Novusod]

If players don't like how I look they are free not to group/raid with me. It is up to the player community to police themselves on this. Maybe RP guilds will inforce a dress code or other such non-sence.

[Laiyo]

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>And I love the post .. however it is not a solution to this issue .. all that adds is more cloth .. I want leather, chain and plate. I dont want just the merchant stuff. I want all of it. The merchant stuff was not good enough for the chain/plate users, why should it be enough for mages ? </blockquote>I absolutely agree with this sentiment and for all classes.  Would it be possible to add more cloth with the appearance of leather, chain, plate and would that be sufficient.  I think that could work too, but opening things up would be best then everyone has the same pool of looks to build character concepts.

[Siclone]

so everyone posting here is fine with tanks tanking in robes or clothing?that wont effect the realism factor at all will it?

[Rast]

<p>doesn't bother me really.  Especially since it was historical that people wore 'overcoats' over plate armor.</p><p>Me, I won't now, since there will be no reason to 'protest' the choice and I'll go about wearing stylish plate.</p>

[Kalyai]

<cite>Siclone wrote:</cite><blockquote>so everyone posting here is fine with tanks tanking in robes or clothing?that wont effect the realism factor at all will it? </blockquote><p>What is this realism factor that you speak of?</p><p>Dragons, Mages, Griffons, Trolls, Gnomes, Undead, Werewolves, and the list goes on...</p><p>I wonder if I can see all of these next time I head downtown to a club...</p>

[Sapphirius]

<cite>Siclone wrote:</cite><blockquote>so everyone posting here is fine with tanks tanking in robes or clothing?that wont effect the realism factor at all will it? </blockquote><p>Realism? Go look up what knights were wearing in the middle ages. You got it... <i><b>CLOTH</b></i> <i>over</i> their armor.</p><p>Sorry, but the whole realism schtick right along with the "immersion" arguements just don't fly with me. No amount of realism is going to change the fact that I'm <i>still</i> sitting here infront of a computer screen with graphical design patterns scattered across my desk, kids screaming at each other in the background cause one looked at the other the wrong way, the telephone constantly ringing in my ear, and a job that I need to report to in the morning.</p><p>( <sighs> One of these days, I'm going to learn how to type. Really, I am. )</p>

[Laiyo]

I'm fine with it and am thrilled the devs are taking this step to increase opportunities for player creativity and customization of characters. Of course, I hope it goes even further. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Will there be silly stuff?  Yes, probably a lot initially while it's novel and then here and there.Will there be some amazing stuff? Yes!Will there be more visual variety? Yes!

[Willias]

<cite>EvilIguana966 wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's not "look at my bad-[I cannot control my vocabulary] character slaying this demonic beast", it's "LOLZ, I KILLD TEH DRAGIN IN A ROBE LOOK AT MEZ LOLZ.  I'M A NONCONFORMIST!".  That's my problem with it.  </blockquote>Give it a few weeks after it hits live servers.  People will go "for the lulz" at first, but when it stops being funny some will go for a rainbow suit of armor, or something they think looks awesome.Just like in EQ1 with dyes.  You have a few morons that think rainbow suits are hilarious, and then the majority picks out suits of armor they think looks neat.  Difference with this though, is that you actually have to acquire items to get a certain look, and there are graphics that look better than just coloring all of your armor dark colors.

[Vatec]

<cite>Siclone wrote:</cite><blockquote>so everyone posting here is fine with tanks tanking in robes or clothing?that wont effect the realism factor at all will it? </blockquote>Correct.  Especially since they can already do it.  Without fluff appearance slots at all.  Now.More to the point, wearing lighter armor used to be a viable choice for most classes.  Right until SOE changed the way avoidance worked with the big combat revamp.  All this change really does is =restore= a freedom that many classes had until a year and a half ago without forcing SOE to invest a lot of time and effort into finding a mechanics-based solution.I could go on for pages and pages about "realism factor" in a fantasy game.  The realism of a centuries-old lich or dragon concentrating all its effort on a single dude in a tin suit while 23 other people do the most of the actual damage.  The realism of a multi-ton creature not being able to flatten said dude in a tin suit by simply stepping on him.  The realism of an orc lookout not noticing you until you're ten feet away, even though it's his job to "look out" for intruders.  Etc.  Etc.If it =really= bothers you that much to see someone fighting in a robe, just remind yourself that he's got a tin suit under it....

[Jesdyr]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>You got it... <i><b>CLOTH</b></i> <span style="color: #cc0000;"><i>over</i></span> their armor.</p></blockquote>fixed that for you ... you can still see armour under the cloth .. you would still have the bulk of the under-armour. It would not look like you have on just cloth .. which is what we have in the game now. ANYWAY ... just did a quick <span style="font-size: xx-small;">totally meaningless</span> search using one of the item database sites out there and found that there are ~1300 cloth items in the game. ~1300 leather items, ~1600 chain, and ~1300 plate. This means as a mage I am shafted out of ~4200 possible items I could wear .... also what is with the chain users getting all the love <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> freedom to make my character look how I want? Not for the mages it seems

[Laiyo]

I'm curious, and other probably have a better idea than me.But of those 1,300 items of cloth how many are identical?  What's the real population of different cloth skins?Of the leather, chain, and plate categories how many different skins are there and how much overlap is there between them (i.e. chain pieces that look like leather, plate that looks like cloth, etc).  Any one have any ideas on this?

[Sapphirius]

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>You got it... <i><b>CLOTH</b></i> <span style="color: #cc0000;"><i>over</i></span> their armor.</p></blockquote>fixed that for you ... you can still see armour under the cloth .. you would still have the bulk of the under-armour. It would not look like you have on just cloth .. which is what we have in the game now. </blockquote><p>You didn't "fix" anything. You just proved my point. Sorry if you find this so bothersome.</p>

[Sapphirius]

<cite>Laiyo wrote:</cite><blockquote>Of the leather, chain, and plate categories how many different skins are there and how much overlap is there between them (i.e. chain pieces that look like leather, plate that looks like cloth, etc).  Any one have any ideas on this?</blockquote><p>This is a good question. I'll see about getting screenies of the different styles currently available, but I'm not getting any of the same pattern/design in multiple colors, so a woven cloth look in white is not going to be counted seperately from that <i>same</i> look in blue. (I love field research!)</p>

[Vatec]

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>You got it... <i><b>CLOTH</b></i> <span style="color: #cc0000;"><i>over</i></span> their armor.</p></blockquote>fixed that for you ... you can still see armour under the cloth .. you would still have the bulk of the under-armour. It would not look like you have on just cloth .. which is what we have in the game now. ANYWAY ... just did a quick <span style="font-size: xx-small;">totally meaningless</span> search using one of the item database sites out there and found that there are ~1300 cloth items in the game. ~1300 leather items, ~1600 chain, and ~1300 plate. This means as a mage I am shafted out of ~4200 possible items I could wear .... also what is with the chain users getting all the love <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /> freedom to make my character look how I want? Not for the mages it seems</blockquote>Actually, there are really only four or five cloth items, three or four leather items, three or four chain items, and maybe five or six plate items.  And then there are variations on the shading thereof.  Plus some chain items look like leather, some leather items look like cloth, etc.As for the "bulk" of the underlying armor, sure, if it's vanguard.  But if it's any variation of the current cleric/crusader armors, those are almost skin-tight visually.  They'd fit under most of EQ2's robes without even stretching them.=Should= plate armor look bulky?  Other than the shoulders, no, not really.  Well-made plate armor fit very closely in order to minimize chafing, shifting, and gaps in protection.  Also, despite common belief, a person in good condition can do cartwheels while wearing good plate armor.The game needs a lot more mage-only items to help equalize the customization opportunities.  But as I've said before, the current solution is a good compromise.  Even mages benefit because now they can wear cool stuff like the black silk set that they'd never touch before due to stats.  So it's definitely not a total loss for cloth-wearers....

[Rast]

I can tell you that the paladin lvl 20 armor looks more like chain than plate (in fact, the templar lvl 20 stuff looks more like plate than the paladins...)

[Laiyo]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>This is a good question. I'll see about getting screenies of the different styles currently available, but I'm not getting any of the same pattern/design in multiple colors, so a woven cloth look in white is not going to be counted seperately from that <i>same</i> look in blue. (I love field research!)</blockquote>If it is reasonable, I'd recommend getting the stats on both. That way you can have X different skins of Y armor type, and each skin has Z color pallets currently available. I love research too, it's what I do for a living.

[Grumpy_Warrior_01]

<p>Wow, big thanks for putting this back Rothgar... can't wait to run around in my old hearth forged AQ set again!  Good times, good times....</p>

[Jesdyr]

<cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Actually, there are really only four or five cloth items, three or four leather items, three or four chain items, and maybe five or six plate items.  And then there are variations on the shading thereof.  Plus some chain items look like leather, some leather items look like cloth, etc. <span style="color: #cc0000;">This is why I put "totally meaningless" in small text. I know I am just using extremely sensationalized arguments to support my side. However the basic idea has merit. I am just ignoring the reality that makes it seem like less of an issue. At least I am honest in my tactics. </span>As for the "bulk" of the underlying armor, sure, if it's vanguard.  But if it's any variation of the current cleric/crusader armors, those are almost skin-tight visually.  They'd fit under most of EQ2's robes without even stretching them. <span style="color: #cc0000;">I would still think you would be able to tell someone had armour on.</span>=Should= plate armor look bulky?  Other than the shoulders, no, not really.  Well-made plate armor fit very closely in order to minimize chafing, shifting, and gaps in protection.  Also, despite common belief, a person in good condition can do cartwheels while wearing good plate armor. <span style="color: #cc0000;">Great  news .. that means casting fireballs would be no problem at all ! MAGIC MISSLE! MAGIC MISSLE!</span>The game needs a lot more mage-only items to help equalize the customization opportunities.  But as I've said before, the current solution is a good compromise.  Even mages benefit because now they can wear cool stuff like the black silk set that they'd never touch before due to stats.  So it's definitely not a total loss for cloth-wearers.... <span style="color: #cc0000;">No No ..we could do that with the other rules .. the only change we see with these rules is the "shaft factor"</span></blockquote>Edit because the other red was too hard on the eyes.  ... and I want to add I really do like your posts .. they are well thought out and bring up good points and also give good explanations about your point of view. I am sorry I feel the need to take this stand and use the sensationalizm that seems to work so well on this forums, but oh well .. this is how it goes.

[Allurana]

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>You got it... <i><b>CLOTH</b></i> <span style="color: #cc0000;"><i>over</i></span> their armor.</p></blockquote>fixed that for you ... you can still see armour under the cloth .. you would still have the bulk of the under-armour. It would not look like you have on just cloth .. which is what we have in the game now. ANYWAY ... just did a quick <span style="font-size: xx-small;">totally meaningless</span> search using one of the item database sites out there and found that there are ~1300 cloth items in the game. ~1300 leather items, ~1600 chain, and ~1300 plate. This means as a mage I am shafted out of ~4200 possible items I could wear .... also what is with the chain users getting all the love <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> freedom to make my character look how I want? Not for the mages it seems</blockquote><p>First let me go on record as saying that I think there should be NO restrictions for anyone under any circumstances.</p><p>That being said and out of the way - I believe that there is good and bad consequences of these new fluff armor slots.</p><p>Good - more freedom of appearance for a large portion of the playerbase - do current dresswearers get hosed?  Yes, they do BUT...</p><p>Why can't they wear above cloth armor now?  Might it have something to do with their being more powerful by nature?  I think so.  I know I am intermingly gameplay and "fluff" issues together, I am just offer a logical explanation based on the current state of the fluff armor slots on test.</p><p>Bad - No Trade items that are dropped by mobs with people rolling on them now just for the fluff armor slots instead of folks that would be equipping it to use.</p><p>Once again, I really really do like the fluff armor slots - I really wish that SOE would implement it so anyone can do anything with those slots - I could care less about immersion I think that is a pretty weak arguement all around for people trying to exert their influence onto other people.</p><p>I do wish however that SOE had someway of having a way to flag each character in terms of armor they have been "exposed" to from mob drops.  Sort of like the collection quests.  When you add in a Pristine Shard you have to pick which collection it goes into but you do "learn" of the existance of the other collection.  If players could be flagged with which equipment they have "exposed" to in the chest but don't actually have to screw their fellow group member out of that item as to get it and put it in a fluff slot it would be great.</p><p>I know I am probably asking for the moon there.  Could even give us a house item (aka dressing room) where we could access all the stuff we have been "exposed" to and let us outfit ourselves for our activities at that time.</p><p>Yeah crazy thinking, just worried about the fallout but still want this feature.  My female barbarian guardian will be in her formal wear 24/7 because that is just the way I roll.</p><p>Thanks,</p><p>Allurana</p>

[Vatec]

<cite>Laiyo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>This is a good question. I'll see about getting screenies of the different styles currently available, but I'm not getting any of the same pattern/design in multiple colors, so a woven cloth look in white is not going to be counted seperately from that <i>same</i> look in blue. (I love field research!)</blockquote>If it is reasonable, I'd recommend getting the stats on both. That way you can have X different skins of Y armor type, and each skin has Z color pallets currently available. I love research too, it's what I do for a living.</blockquote>Well, I can start you guys off.  I was checking out fashions on Test PVP while the servers were down.  This isn't complete, but it's a start.Cloth (male):1 robe model with at least 4 skins (patchwork, brown vest/orange skirt, embroidered, flame motif)1 full bodysuit model with 1 skin (Tailor-made fluff clothing) that comes in about 100 different tinting variations :^P1 short-sleeved shirt model (looks like the top half of the fluff clothing) in two skins (with and without vest) [opulent gold shirt]1 doublet model, sleeveless with at least 3 skins (eagle mid-chest, emblem upper left chest, solid) [Black Silk Doublet, status clothing]1 baggy pantaloon model (complete with Depends undergarments) in many shades1 capri pants model with 1 skin and many shades1 loose pantaloon model, tucked into boots [Black Silk Leggings]1 tight-fitting legging model <shared with several leather sets (i.e., augmented), it even has leather plates protecting the thighs> [don't remember the exact item, was level 50ish, I believe]1 formal suit model1 puffy doublet sleeves model [Black Silk Sleeves]1 basic helmet model (cap <shared with leather and chain&gt<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Leather:2 status woven sets <shared with cloth "doublet">1 cuirboilli set with at least 2 skins (cuirboilli, augmented) <shared with "tight-fitting legging">1 woven dragonhide set <shared with cloth "baggy pantaloon">1 woven set (also used for treasured items)1 different woven set with small rectangular apron1 status set from Tunarian Alliance (shared with some crafted sets)1 two-tone set (used for newbie leather, warden/fury sets) <chest piece shared with Ranger AQ set> [Wasteland Cuirass, Highland Stalker Tunic(?)]3 basic helmet models (dorky cap <shared with cloth and chain>, barbute <shared with chain and plate>, cap with neckguard <shared with chain&gt<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Chain:2 basic leg models (with and without skirt) and 2 textures (scale, chain)5 basic chest models (solid breastplate [gnoll chain, old carbonite chain], partial breastplate [xegonite], scaled [some brigandine], chain, leather [Highland Stalker] <shared with leather, obviously><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /> (some of these might be just textures)3 basic sleeve models (big dragon pauldrons, spikey pauldrons [xegonite], skin-tight)3 basic helmet models (dorky cap <shared with cloth and leather>, barbute <shared with leather and plate>, cap with neckguard [carbonite brigandine set] <shared with leather>]1 hood (also used as Ranger epic hat :^P)Plate:2 basic leg models (with and without skirt) and at least 7 textures ("robot" [Ree set], "battered" [Iron handcrafter], "fancy" [Feysteel mastercrafted, Qeynos luminous set (yes, they differ a little)], runed [Qeynos Guard Officer set], "parade" [Qeynos parade vanguard set], chain [any "plate" set], "weird" [Celestial Watch Officer set])1 basic chest model with the same 7 textures2 basic sleeve models (with and without giant pauldrons of doom) with the same 7 textures2 basic helmets (armet with spike on top, barbute <shared with leather and chain&gt<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I'm sure there are tons more, but make sure you don't leave these out ;^)

[Vatec]

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Actually, there are really only four or five cloth items, three or four leather items, three or four chain items, and maybe five or six plate items.  And then there are variations on the shading thereof.  Plus some chain items look like leather, some leather items look like cloth, etc. <span style="color: #cc0000;">This is why I put "totally meaningless" in small text. I know I am just using extremely sensationalized arguments to support my side. However the basic idea has merit. I am just ignoring the reality that makes it seem like less of an issue. At least I am honest in my tactics. </span>As for the "bulk" of the underlying armor, sure, if it's vanguard.  But if it's any variation of the current cleric/crusader armors, those are almost skin-tight visually.  They'd fit under most of EQ2's robes without even stretching them. <span style="color: #cc0000;">I would still think you would be able to tell someone had armour on.</span>=Should= plate armor look bulky?  Other than the shoulders, no, not really.  Well-made plate armor fit very closely in order to minimize chafing, shifting, and gaps in protection.  Also, despite common belief, a person in good condition can do cartwheels while wearing good plate armor. <span style="color: #cc0000;">Great  news .. that means casting fireballs would be no problem at all ! MAGIC MISSLE! MAGIC MISSLE!</span>The game needs a lot more mage-only items to help equalize the customization opportunities.  But as I've said before, the current solution is a good compromise.  Even mages benefit because now they can wear cool stuff like the black silk set that they'd never touch before due to stats.  So it's definitely not a total loss for cloth-wearers.... <span style="color: #cc0000;">No No ..we could do that with the other rules .. the only change we see with these rules is the "shaft factor"</span></blockquote>Edit because the other red was too hard on the eyes.  ... and I want to add I really do like your posts .. they are well thought out and bring up good points and also give good explanations about your point of view. I am sorry I feel the need to take this stand and use the sensationalizm that seems to work so well on this forums, but oh well .. this is how it goes. </blockquote>Heh, I've always been in favor of mages wearing plate.  I just don't think it has any chance of happening (except for status clothing) in EQ2 because there's a very vocal minority that would scream about it and =never stop= screaming, despite the fact there's no "real world" or "literary" basis for the restriction.  Gandalf used a sword (Glamdring), rune-masters from Nordic mythology wore chain armor like all the other Scandinavian warriors, and there's no logical reason why a genius capable of grasping the intricacies of magic wouldn't have enough common sense to devote a few minutes each day to strength training.  Mages in Daggerfall/Morrowind/Oblivion commonly wear plate armor.  Etc., etc.Furthermore, I've never heard an EQ2 rationale for restricting casters to cloth.  No "iron interferes with the flow of magic" rationale, no "need your arms free to make intricate gestures" rationale, etc.  And I've seen orcs in heavy armor cast mage (NOT priest) spells.From a personal perspective, I have 17 different characters I play regularly.  I really don't care one way or the other how it falls out.  From a fairness perspective I agree that mages should have a lot more choices than they currently have.  And yes, they knew what they were getting into when they created the characters, but times have changed and the system has adapted.So, short-term I'm going to advocate more mage-only cloth items, more cloth status items, and more cloth items in general.  Long-term, maybe we'll see more leather, chain, and plate options for mages.  After all, three of the different class hats look like armor to me (Conjuror, Necromancer, Warlock)....

[Swashbuckler_Tisiphone]

omg  <3 Rothgar !!! weeee

[Thay]

So there won't be a problem wearing ceremonial plate armor from the Bloodlines merchant, even though I am a Dirge and can't wear plate normally, right?

[Thay]

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, I hope I am wrong... but with this change, any distinguishable class distinctions brought about by what the person is wearing has now gone out the window. SOE has on its hands the first Tolkien style MMO where the classes will not show what they normally wear. Chalk one up to the whiners... now don't expect them to back down whenever another change they don't like comes in... they will just kick scream and yell until they get it their way... spoiled brat syndrome if you will. --- I'm out.</blockquote>Can I have your stuff?

[Jesdyr]

<cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I just don't think it has any chance of happening (except for status clothing) in EQ2 because there's a very vocal minority that would scream about it and =never stop= screaming, </blockquote>I think I want to do that with this .. persistence is always fun .. but I am sure Rothgar is thinking "OMG will you people ____" (insert some bad thing that makes people go away). Yah .. I was happy with the system before .. I am happy now .. I am unhappy that the people who were screaming the loudest for being able to wear what they want suddenly stop screaming. I know nothing will really come from this, but that has never stopped me before.

[Rast]

<p>while I wouldn't mind seeing mages capable of wearing plate (I had a plate wearing mage in AC for awhile, as well as a plate wearing monk), I see this as a logical choice of options until such time as they can get the skeletal revamp done and introduce more styles of clothing.</p><p>Another thing that can be done is make sure certain robes (that are highly desired by mages) are mage only, therefore not available for those who are not mages to prevent the screw over factor.</p>

[KassieEmma]

<p>If I leave the appearance slots empty, will I look naked?</p><p>I have always wanted to raid in the nude. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  Perhaps it will "stun" the mobs hehe.</p>

[Rast]

<p>lol</p><p>No, from what I've heard, any left empty will display the normal armor below it.</p>

[Jesdyr]

But feel free to raid naked .... I have solo'd naked .. it is like playing on hard mode!someone will chime in and tell you about some items that will do what you want if you are using SOGA models .. these are bugs.

[Vatec]

<cite>Jalathan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>lol</p><p>No, from what I've heard, any left empty will display the normal armor below it.</p></blockquote>True.  But there are some cloth sleeves that, if not worn with the matching chest piece, become invisible.  Black Silk Sleeves are one example (no doublet? no visible sleeves).  And these work on the old models for sure.  No clue if they work on SOGA models.  I don't even know what my characters look like in SOGA form ;^)

[Swashbuckler_Tisiphone]

<p>a post earlier about swashbucklers being in chains, and as for finding pictures of a swashbuckler, sady this is correct on finding pictures, closest you will find is that of a pirate, but I know like MTG ( magic the gathering) AD&D used to have a card game, and of it, there was a picture of a half elf swashbuckler on it, and to be honest he looked like the spitting image of a swashy in eq2 with the relic look on, very leather and cloth feel to it.</p><p>other then that, SoE could possibly make a contest in which players designed new armors  for the magi to wear etc etc, pick the bst, maybe use thier name for it? idk, just a random thought, have it voted on  etc etc... /shrug</p>

[Vatec]

<cite>Swashbuckler_Tisiphone wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>a post earlier about swashbucklers being in chains, and as for finding pictures of a swashbuckler, sady this is correct on finding pictures, closest you will find is that of a pirate, but I know like MTG ( magic the gathering) AD&D used to have a card game, and of it, there was a picture of a half elf swashbuckler on it, and to be honest he looked like the spitting image of a swashy in eq2 with the relic look on, very leather and cloth feel to it.</p><p>other then that, SoE could possibly make a contest in which players designed new armors  for the magi to wear etc etc, pick the bst, maybe use thier name for it? idk, just a random thought, have it voted on  etc etc... /shrug</p></blockquote>Just do a search on "Errol Flynn" and you should find some proper "swashbuckler" looks.  Or "Three Musketeers" for a different take on the same thing.

[DMIstar]

Thank You

[Catria]

<cite>EvilIguana966 wrote:</cite><blockquote>A lot of people get their jollies by doing things that interrupt the gameplay experience of others.  This change means that people now have a new avenue to pursue that.  The armor type restrictions existed as a means of enforcing a pleasing level of visual consistency with regards to class type.  Certain classes had certain looks that fit in with EQ2's take on high fantasy convention.  This is no longer the case.  People can now look however the heck they want whenever the heck they feel like it, making one of the main flavor aspects of class selection meaningless.  <span style="color: #cccc00;">A lot of people are saying that they are relieved by this new development because they want to look a certain way and this allows them to.  That's bull.  You got to choose the general direction of how your character looks already when you chose your class.  </span>Sure there are some limitations, but they exist in order to add a degree of logic to the gameworld.  Like it or not the basic physical laws of our world apply to Norrath as well.  Metal plate is more protective than thin cloth at the expense of weight and some freedom of movement.  Now people will start wearing wacky armor types for their own amusement at the expense of other peoples' immersion.  They tell themselves that they are not affecting anybody else yet they would not be doing it if it didn't turn heads and otherwise disturb people in a negative way.  It's not "look at my bad-[I cannot control my vocabulary] character slaying this demonic beast", it's "LOLZ, I KILLD TEH DRAGIN IN A ROBE LOOK AT MEZ LOLZ.  I'M A NONCONFORMIST!".  That's my problem with it.  </blockquote><p>Ummm.... I don't know about the rest of you, but I chose my class because I liked what it DOES not what it looks like.</p><p>Considering your statements above, I am guessing it offends you that people are able to betray cities and change classes because *gasp* they don't look like they should!  A dark elf should not be able to be a good class!  </p><p>All that aside..... it's fluff..... the more immature ones will use it as a way to look silly for a while... then the notoriety will wear off and it will be business as usual.  </p><p>And once again, the way this is set up now, nobody can wear anything for appearance that they can't wear already, so I don't see what the big deal is.</p>

[ke'la]

<cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well, I think my Swashy's going to be masquerading as a clothie now.  Can't wait for somebody to try to sneak up on me and melee me, then just get poisoned for it.  Of course I expect everybody's going to try to look like a clothie now, since most drop fairly quickly in melee.  Why in the world would a tank or a healer advertise their class, when they can look like a caster?  Yeah, I know, PvP ruining everything. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>I'd hope that there's implementation of some sort of restriction on PvP servers, ie. must be similar type of equipment or be faction gear, because this is going to be abused on a massive scale in PvP.</p></blockquote><p>Um, Three words... LOOK AT BUFFS.</p><p>I don't even PvP and I know that looks can be deseaving, heck all a Meleer has to do right now is have a robe equiped in thier chest slot, and have an "Equip. chest piece of uberness" macro to acheave the same thing.</p>

[ke'la]

<cite>Akaran2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Question for clarification:It had been stated earlier that all guild status items would be able to be worn regardless of class (thinking Luminous Vanguard armor for my necro for the heck of it) - is this still possible? That kind of gear is restricted to plate classes... no real reason, it won't bother me much. Just curious about it.</p><p>Thanks!</p></blockquote>If your class can equip it in thier Normal slots then they can equip it in thier fluff slots that means yes if you can wear the Luminous Vanguard now then you can after the change(same goes for the Bloodlines fluff armor)

[ke'la]

<cite>Zoodia@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lhangion@Innovation wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>same possibilities as other classes. (fighter wear robes, then i want to wear plate!)<p>and here we go again.Let me shock you before this goes live:</p><p> <img src="http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:zHVpbJ9k5yzeUM:http://www.norwegian-pentagram.com/images/ridder.gif" border="0" alt="" width="77" height="130" /></p><p>Oh and its hard to find any swashbuckler picture from movies and so on were they actually wear chain.</p></blockquote>That picture is ok, i have no problem with a fighter dressed like that knight on that picture. Cloak with some kind of doublet? i dont know the english word for it. But the robes that are actually ingame dont fit for a fighter.And leather items for swash is actually a good change no doubt.</blockquote>Really thats odd it looks exsactly like the style of the robes in game(if you remove the cloak, as we have capes not cloaks in game) Long sack with a belt around the middle sinched at the neck. Yep same look

[Supp]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Even though I know how much people love reading 50-page threads, I thought I'd start a new one anyway.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />A change should be going out to the Test server later today that removes the previous restrictions on appearance items.You'll now be able to equip anything in an appearance slot that is <b>usable by your class</b>.Greg "Rothgar" SpenceEQ2 Programmer</blockquote>Bravo Rothgar. This newest development does not affect me because my appearance slots were going to be filled with like armor anyway, but I am quite happy to see a quick customer sat response to a very emotional issue. Having the community get together to passionately write out a 50page thread is evidence enough. Threads don't get that big unless it really really matters to the community.I am still quietly pushing the hope of appearance slots for primary, secondary and ranged slots. Specifically, the appearance items would have to be usable by your class, and they would have to be a like for like item. Meaning if you had a 1hander with a symbol/shield, you could not INSERT a 2hander in the appearance slot. And of course the reverse would be true for the opposite configuration.I realize you guys have spent some time on the appearance slot shanannigans already, but please do consider that request. My fury would very much like to be carrying around (visually) a cooler looking buckler, or symbol or weapon.Again, thanks for the listening to the community as a whole. My two primary characters are both mages, and appearances have always been very critical to me. So hearing the praise come from such a player is high marks for certain.

[Supp]

Hi Everyone,     My warlock is a battlemage (mit spec'd). What is the qeynos faction platestyle armor I've been hearing about? I knew about the bloodlines armor, but it is true that the arms don't match, so I'm looking for a little diversity. Can someone fill me in?

[ke'la]

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, I hope I am wrong... but with this change, any distinguishable class distinctions brought about by what the person is wearing has now gone out the window. SOE has on its hands the first Tolkien style MMO where the classes will not show what they normally wear. Chalk one up to the whiners... now don't expect them to back down whenever another change they don't like comes in... they will just kick scream and yell until they get it their way... spoiled brat syndrome if you will. --- I'm out.</blockquote><p>So befor this change you can tell me what class someone was by thier armor huh? Ok, what class is this</p><p><img src="http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n65/kela_012/whatclass.jpg" alt="" width="178" height="636" border="0" /></p><p>Lets see it could be Swashbuckler(looks at sig. yep), Brigand, Assasin, Ranger, Trubidor, Dirge, Mystic, or Defililer, then ofcourse it also COULD be(but unlikly) Pally, Sk, Zerker, or Guard.</p><p>On the other hand only one class can accually where this</p><p><img src="http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n65/kela_012/Swashgear.jpg" alt="" width="174" height="654" border="0" /> </p><p>is the Swashbuckler, so it accually could leed to MORE destinctions between classes as classes can now accually wear thier lvl20 AQ armor while trying to get thier higher lvl armor sets.(and it also gives a reason to finish those quests)</p>

[ke'la]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I did read it .. his post is still a valid request. These rules are not fair .. the Devs know this but gave into the more vocal of the community. Personally, either way is fine with me. Just because I am ok with it does not change the argument. </blockquote><p>I'd rather see the game cater to the <i>majority</i> than the minority. <i>Too many times</i>, the devs have caved into the minority and punished the majority for the voices and complaints of only a small handful of people. <i>Too many times</i>, their solution to "improving" a class or small group of people hasn't been to make them better but to make everybody else worse. It's about time they stepped forward and went the opoosite direction.</p><p>Already there are a number of very unpopular changes in GU 38 from the status item nerf to the 2 -econd casting bar to interact with widgets to the Devastation Fist nerf that made the ability practically useless in the area that brawlers needed it <i>most</i> even to the new rule of widgets taking scouts and mages out of stealth and invis.</p><p>This is the one thing that a lot of people agreed would somewhat make up for the negative changes happening in the coming update, and with its previous restrictions, it was not only arbitrary and contradicted itself, but it disappointed a <i>huge</i> number of people.</p><p>Much love to ya, Rothgar! <3</p></blockquote>Odd that you seem to think that your in the Majority eventhough the OVERWHELMING number of Origanal posters to this thread are saying WAY TO GO to the devs, meaning they like this Idea, besides all this change does it put back what was already in place when you chose your class(if your a mage you can't wear plate(for the most part) if your a (non-brawler)Fighter you can ware anything(for the most part))

[ke'la]

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite>The previous restrictions were fair and did exactly what the system was being designed to do. People wanted more and SoE is giving it to them. I say why stop there? It should be anyone can wear anything they want or the old rules should go back in.LONG LIVE THE TANK MAGE !  ([I cannot control my vocabulary] I miss UO)</blockquote><p>I personally have no problem with having no restriction on the appeance slot, that said there is a couple ways for a mage to look like a tank one is the bloodlines armor below, the other is to get the "Fluff" armor from the city vendors.</p><p><img src="http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n65/kela_012/MageInPlate.jpg" alt="" width="210" height="613" border="0" /></p>

[Zagbab_Dorfbasher]

Been following the original uber long thread with a vengeance, and frankly am tired of the bantering back and forth about all the "issues" so didn't feel like reading these 10 pages.Just wanna say YEAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH.And if any Devs bother reading this (I wouldn't blame ya if ya don't hehe), to give a little compensation to all the "shafted" mages, consider more robe models (not just textures), and more non robeish cloth armor for when the fabled Skellie revamp happens <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />P.S.Personaly I believe that there should be no restrictions what so ever. In my mind mages don't wear plate, but I'm not about to go enforcing that view on other players' imaginations <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[DMIstar]

Come next patch am glad that the rainbow of Players in the game is now going to be gone with this.The previous restrictions where just plain dumb period, And very happy that they are gone. Now we can atleast see what art and graphics on sets of armor this game has, other then the multi color toons that are running around now.

[ke'la]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote>Already began that campaign in the Look and Feel section.  First step is to expand the options available to cloth wearers.  And yes, that should probably include more mage-only equipment.There was very little chance SOE was going to unrestrict everything.  It would be nice, but it's unlikely, at least not until they've seen the results of implementing it this way first.  If this goes smoothly, maybe they'll consider it in the future.  We can always hope.</blockquote><p>Thanks, Vatec! I'll be sure to go check that out. I find it funny that this poster bashes me for asking about cloth appearances and then bashes me for "not finishing the battle." I think everyone knew that the restrictions would not be removed completely. It was entirely wishful thinking. That's probably why so much of the 50 page thread was devoted to discussions regarding the dismal appearence of post-LU 24 crafted cloth armor (which BTW was<i> after both</i> EOF and SOGA models, so the comment about not having the proper artwork for the original cloth vests and pants was ill-informed).</p><p>BTW, can you post a linky to that thread for the cloth wearers?</p></blockquote>If your interested in changes to the cloth look keep an eye out for posts either from <a href="http://eq2.eqtraders.com/articles/news_page.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Denmom</a> or <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/user/profile.m?user_id=60894" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Calthine</a> as they generally get to preview the cloths stuff, so when Domino revamps the leather and cloth looks like she did for the <a href="http://eq2.eqtraders.com/articles/article_page.php?article=g158&menustr=065000000000" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Chain</a> and <a href="http://eq2.eqtraders.com/articles/article_page.php?article=g159&menustr=065000000000" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Plate</a> looks it will likly be one of these two that will report it.

[Supp]

<cite>Supple wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi Everyone,     My warlock is a battlemage (mit spec'd). What is the qeynos faction platestyle armor I've been hearing about? I knew about the bloodlines armor, but it is true that the arms don't match, so I'm looking for a little diversity. Can someone fill me in?</blockquote>Ok, so the answer is the Qeynos Fighter guild has the armor I'm thinking of. By chance, do anyone have a screenshot of that suit? I know I can use a dressing room window on it, but I'm still at work!

[Zagbab_Dorfbasher]

<cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>If your interested in changes to the cloth look keep an eye out for posts either from <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eq2.eqtraders.com/articles/news_page.php" target="_blank">Denmom</a> or <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/user/profile.m?user_id=60894" target="_blank">Calthine</a> as they generally get to preview the cloths stuff, so when Domino revamps the leather and cloth looks like she did for the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eq2.eqtraders.com/articles/article_page.php?article=g158&menustr=065000000000" target="_blank">Chain</a> and <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eq2.eqtraders.com/articles/article_page.php?article=g159&menustr=065000000000" target="_blank">Plate</a> looks it will likly be one of these two that will report it.</blockquote>Not to be a buzz kill or anything, but I don't realy get what's revamped about the chain and plate, same old appearances, just switched around. Not quite sure how that makes sense, but uhm.... yeah <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Might even be wrong on this, but think the only "new" one is the Feysteel heavy armor.

[TaleraRis]

<cite>EvilIguana966 wrote:</cite><blockquote>A lot of people are saying that they are relieved by this new development because they want to look a certain way and this allows them to.  That's bull.  You got to choose the general direction of how your character looks already when you chose your class.  Sure there are some limitations, but they exist in order to add a degree of logic to the gameworld.  Like it or not the basic physical laws of our world apply to Norrath as well.  Metal plate is more protective than thin cloth at the expense of weight and some freedom of movement.  </blockquote>When I chose the general direction of my ranger, her appearance was leather. Leather fit my solo play style more, as not getting hit was much more valuable to me than just not getting hit for less in the case of chain. Now leather and chain offer you the same level of avoidance and the choice of leather or chain was taken out of the scout's hands. How does this exist to add a degree of logic? You are more agile and more able to get around in lighter armor as compared to a piece of chainmail, yet in the EQ2 world, they are equal in allowing you freedom of movement? This change means I can look like a hunter of the forest again, as the typical fantasy image of a ranger tends to be. That is not bull.

[Zagbab_Dorfbasher]

<span class="genmed"><b><span style="color: #3333ff;">TaleraRis</span></b></span>, let's just ignore the immersion *shudders* whiners, let's just all go to our happy place, where fashion exist, and everyone is happy without bothering about stupid stuff <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />/man I need to go to bed.....

[ke'la]

<cite>Zagbab_Dorfbasher wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>If your interested in changes to the cloth look keep an eye out for posts either from <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eq2.eqtraders.com/articles/news_page.php" target="_blank">Denmom</a> or <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/user/profile.m?user_id=60894" target="_blank">Calthine</a> as they generally get to preview the cloths stuff, so when Domino revamps the leather and cloth looks like she did for the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eq2.eqtraders.com/articles/article_page.php?article=g158&menustr=065000000000" target="_blank">Chain</a> and <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eq2.eqtraders.com/articles/article_page.php?article=g159&menustr=065000000000" target="_blank">Plate</a> looks it will likly be one of these two that will report it.</blockquote>Not to be a buzz kill or anything, but I don't realy get what's revamped about the chain and plate, same old appearances, just switched around. Not quite sure how that makes sense, but uhm.... yeah <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> Might even be wrong on this, but think the only "new" one is the Feysteel heavy armor.</blockquote>Accually as Domino can not add Art to the game it is just a realining of current in game models to make them more consistant, and using models that are less used on occation. The same will happen when she realines the leather and cloth, when she gets the time. However, once the skelital revamp is done I am willing to bet we are going to see tons of stuff come out for all armor types, I know the devs are just as unhappy about the available models in game as we are(if not more so), so once they can accually do something about it I am willing to bet we will see tons of stuff added.

[Vatec]

<cite>Supple wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Supple wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi Everyone,     My warlock is a battlemage (mit spec'd). What is the qeynos faction platestyle armor I've been hearing about? I knew about the bloodlines armor, but it is true that the arms don't match, so I'm looking for a little diversity. Can someone fill me in?</blockquote>Ok, so the answer is the Qeynos Fighter guild has the armor I'm thinking of. By chance, do anyone have a screenshot of that suit? I know I can use a dressing room window on it, but I'm still at work!</blockquote>There's two suits, Guard and Officer.  The Guard armor is the same stuff the Guards in Qeynos and FP wear: tight-fitting dark iron with a barbute helm.  The Officer armor is the same stuff you can see Qeynos Guard captains wearing and is also identical to Steel(?) Plate Armor (the one aimed at Templars).  It's tight-fitting plate armor with runes and symbols painted on it.  Would look pretty good on a mage, I should think.  Probably better on a mage than on a Crusader or Cleric, actually....

[Zagbab_Dorfbasher]

Ah, ok <span class="genmed"><b><span style="color: #3333ff;">ke'la</span></b></span>, thanks for explaining that, didn't quite understand what the point was (other than confusing me of course hehe).Still don't quite understand..... but I'll take your word and believe it was a good thing <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[kcirrot]

<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />That's all I got to say!!

[Sapphirius]

<cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Laiyo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>This is a good question. I'll see about getting screenies of the different styles currently available, but I'm not getting any of the same pattern/design in multiple colors, so a woven cloth look in white is not going to be counted seperately from that <i>same</i> look in blue. (I love field research!)</blockquote>If it is reasonable, I'd recommend getting the stats on both. That way you can have X different skins of Y armor type, and each skin has Z color pallets currently available. I love research too, it's what I do for a living.</blockquote>Well, I can start you guys off.  I was checking out fashions on Test PVP while the servers were down.  This isn't complete, but it's a start.Cloth (male):1 robe model with at least 4 skins (patchwork, brown vest/orange skirt, embroidered, flame motif)1 full bodysuit model with 1 skin (Tailor-made fluff clothing) that comes in about 100 different tinting variations :^P1 short-sleeved shirt model (looks like the top half of the fluff clothing) in two skins (with and without vest) [opulent gold shirt]1 doublet model, sleeveless with at least 3 skins (eagle mid-chest, emblem upper left chest, solid) [Black Silk Doublet, status clothing]1 baggy pantaloon model (complete with Depends undergarments) in many shades1 capri pants model with 1 skin and many shades1 loose pantaloon model, tucked into boots [Black Silk Leggings]1 tight-fitting legging model <shared with several leather sets (i.e., augmented), it even has leather plates protecting the thighs> [don't remember the exact item, was level 50ish, I believe]1 formal suit model1 puffy doublet sleeves model [Black Silk Sleeves]1 basic helmet model (cap <shared with leather and chain><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />Leather:2 status woven sets <shared with cloth "doublet">1 cuirboilli set with at least 2 skins (cuirboilli, augmented) <shared with "tight-fitting legging">1 woven dragonhide set <shared with cloth "baggy pantaloon">1 woven set (also used for treasured items)1 different woven set with small rectangular apron1 status set from Tunarian Alliance (shared with some crafted sets)1 two-tone set (used for newbie leather, warden/fury sets) <chest piece shared with Ranger AQ set> [Wasteland Cuirass, Highland Stalker Tunic(?)]3 basic helmet models (dorky cap <shared with cloth and chain>, barbute <shared with chain and plate>, cap with neckguard <shared with chain><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />Chain:2 basic leg models (with and without skirt) and 2 textures (scale, chain)5 basic chest models (solid breastplate [gnoll chain, old carbonite chain], partial breastplate [xegonite], scaled [some brigandine], chain, leather [Highland Stalker] <shared with leather, obviously><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />"> (some of these might be just textures)3 basic sleeve models (big dragon pauldrons, spikey pauldrons [xegonite], skin-tight)3 basic helmet models (dorky cap <shared with cloth and leather>, barbute <shared with leather and plate>, cap with neckguard [carbonite brigandine set] <shared with leather>]1 hood (also used as Ranger epic hat :^P)Plate:2 basic leg models (with and without skirt) and at least 7 textures ("robot" [Ree set], "battered" [Iron handcrafter], "fancy" [Feysteel mastercrafted, Qeynos luminous set (yes, they differ a little)], runed [Qeynos Guard Officer set], "parade" [Qeynos parade vanguard set], chain [any "plate" set], "weird" [Celestial Watch Officer set])1 basic chest model with the same 7 textures2 basic sleeve models (with and without giant pauldrons of doom) with the same 7 textures2 basic helmets (armet with spike on top, barbute <shared with leather and chain><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />I'm sure there are tons more, but make sure you don't leave these out ;^)</blockquote>Vatec, you're my hero. I only just got home and am settling down to log in.

[Zarafein]

<p><span style="font-size: small;font-family: Times New Roman;">Robe wearing scouts may become very popular btw, this guy could be a reason:</span></p><p><img src="http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/8/81/200px-AC-Altair.jpg" alt="" width="144" height="229" border="0" /></p>

[Lodrelhai]

<cite>Zagbab_Dorfbasher wrote:</cite><blockquote><span class="genmed"><b><span style="color: #3333ff;">TaleraRis</span></b></span>, let's just ignore the immersion *shudders* whiners, let's just all go to our happy place, where fashion exist, and everyone is happy without bothering about stupid stuff <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>I wouldn't say ignore them, since their complaints are, really, just as valid as ours were about lack of variety and enforcing limitations no one's been really happy about since the combat revamp.  Since the Appearance slots are strictly fluff, with no impact on game dynamics whatsoever, every stance on them is opinion.  And in this, one person's opinion is just as valid as another's.</p><p>I'm sorry to know that some people are so displeased by the limited restrictions currently in place, that they feel it will ruin their game experience.  I'm hopeful that after a few weeks of seeing it in action, they'll find it more to their liking than they originally believed.</p><p>I'm also still hopeful that the devs will decide to open the armor fluff slots without restrictions - while yes, there may be some people who will roll on a piece of armor one person in their party can use as an upgrade simply because they like the look, I have faith in the majority of this community to use good sense and fair practices with loot distribution.  After all, there's already the capacity for group or raid leaders to hog the goods for themselves or play favorites when passing them out - and the ones who do soon find themselves unable to raise groups or raids outside their circle of benificiaries.  </p><p>In the meantime, I'm grateful for the lifting of restrictions that has happened.  While it's not freedom for everyone, it is greater freedom for most.  And as two of my three favorite characters are mages, I'm fully aware of, and accepting of, the 'shaft factor' against them.   So thanks again, Rothgar, and all the devs who weighed the arguments in the 50-page thread on this!</p>

[Vatec]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>//SNIP//</cite><span style="color: #006600;">Vatec, you're my hero.</span> I only just got home and am settling down to log in.</blockquote>I'm glad someone thinks that other than my cat ;^)I hope it's of some use to you, even if only to provide some structure to your research or to remind you about a set you might have missed.Also, don't miss Ogrebear's site (http://ogrebear.com/?page_id=97), eq2.wikia.com, and eq2.eqtraders.comAll three have parts of the puzzle.Have fun!

[Tokam]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Even though I know how much people love reading 50-page threads, I thought I'd start a new one anyway.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />A change should be going out to the Test server later today that removes the previous restrictions on appearance items.You'll now be able to equip anything in an appearance slot that is <b>usable by your class</b>.Greg "Rothgar" SpenceEQ2 Programmer</blockquote><p>Well whats the point in that then? How is this going to give me an alternate appearance to make my <span style="color: #ffcc00;">mage</span> look different?</p><p><span style="color: #ffcc00;">edited for clarity</span></p>

[Armawk]

<cite>Tokamak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Even though I know how much people love reading 50-page threads, I thought I'd start a new one anyway.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />A change should be going out to the Test server later today that removes the previous restrictions on appearance items.You'll now be able to equip anything in an appearance slot that is <b>usable by your class</b>.Greg "Rothgar" SpenceEQ2 Programmer</blockquote><p>Well whats the point in that then? How is this going to give me an alternate appearance to make my <span style="color: #ffcc00;">mage</span> look different?</p><p><span style="color: #ffcc00;">edited for clarity</span></p></blockquote>If there is a cloth outfit or robe you really like, then you can choose to show that one instead of the one you are wearing for stats.

[Tokam]

<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tokamak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Even though I know how much people love reading 50-page threads, I thought I'd start a new one anyway.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />A change should be going out to the Test server later today that removes the previous restrictions on appearance items.You'll now be able to equip anything in an appearance slot that is <b>usable by your class</b>.Greg "Rothgar" SpenceEQ2 Programmer</blockquote><p>Well whats the point in that then? How is this going to give me an alternate appearance to make my <span style="color: #ffcc00;">mage</span> look different?</p><p><span style="color: #ffcc00;">edited for clarity</span></p></blockquote>If there is a cloth outfit or robe you really like, then you can choose to show that one instead of the one you are wearing for stats.</blockquote>This is something that I do already, both for general runnning around and raid zones (yes including mayong / wuoshi). Its not going to make my mage look any different is it.

[Armawk]

<cite>Tokamak wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is something that I do already, both for general runnning around and raid zones (yes including mayong / wuoshi). Its not going to make my mage look any different is it.</blockquote><p>If you already do that then no. The change is to allow other people who dont want to do that to fake it by appearing to wear one thing while gaining the stats from another. It also means that you could wear a statless or very low level item for appearance.</p>

[Tokam]

<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tokamak wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is something that I do already, both for general runnning around and raid zones (yes including mayong / wuoshi). Its not going to make my mage look any different is it.</blockquote><p>If you already do that then no. The change is to allow other people who dont want to do that to fake it by appearing to wear one thing while gaining the stats from another. It also means that you could wear a statless or very low level item for appearance.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, my point being that I will not be allowed to match my necro class helm (eof or kos or quested) with an appropriate bp because... ?</p><p>Im a little unclear as to why fighter classes are being allowed to 'dress down' while I am not being allowed to 'dress up.' I would have loved to use something like spinesnapper or the jade axe along with a dark bp and my class hat to make a more interesting looking necro.</p>

[Armawk]

<p>I guess the logic is that they already can wear those things, so saying "you can wear this but you cant wear it as a fake" makes no sense, in that view.</p>

[kcirrot]

<cite>Tokamak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tokamak wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is something that I do already, both for general runnning around and raid zones (yes including mayong / wuoshi). Its not going to make my mage look any different is it.</blockquote><p>If you already do that then no. The change is to allow other people who dont want to do that to fake it by appearing to wear one thing while gaining the stats from another. It also means that you could wear a statless or very low level item for appearance.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, my point being that I will not be allowed to match my necro class helm (eof or kos or quested) with an appropriate bp because... ?</p><p>Im a little unclear as to why fighter classes are being allowed to 'dress down' while I am not being allowed to 'dress up.' I would have loved to use something like spinesnapper or the jade axe along with a dark bp and my class hat to make a more interesting looking necro.</p></blockquote>My guess is that the way they implemented the Appearance tab, is that you're actually wearing the item just the stats are disabled.  Thus it might require programming work to make it so that Warlocks can wear plate, in the appearance tab, but not in the equipment tab.  They changed it back to the original implementation because it was easy to do now.  Later implementations of the appearance tab could probably offer this feature.  You certainly get no argument from me.

[kcirrot]

<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I guess the logic is that they already can wear those things, so saying "you can wear this but you cant wear it as a fake" makes no sense, in that view.</p></blockquote>I'll bet money it's a technical issue.  As in "We could do that, but it would delay LU38, so we'll look into that later."

[Lightstrider]

I think it's a logic issue.  Prior to this update, the logic of armor was that casters wear cloth, tanks wear plate, etc.  A tank could choose to wear cloth, which was less protection, but a caster could not choose to wear plate.  With the update, the point seems to be to allow a character to wear an old armor set whose appearance they liked, or at least that all matches.  But seeing a caster running around in plate would be confusing, since they don't really do that.  I think the update was intended to give us some control over our appearance, but not to disrupt the natural game logic.

[Sapphirius]

<cite>kcirrot wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'll bet money it's a technical issue.  As in "We could do that, but it would delay LU38, so we'll look into that later."</blockquote><p>Actually, that's exactly what I'm <i>hoping</i> it is.</p><p>In the meantime, I'm still compiling a list of the different designs for each armor, and I was simply astounded by the number of cloth options out there. I hope to have everything done by this afternoon to post. I may even write a dress-up guide with the screenshots I took. I'll be sure to link screenshots to each of the appearances that I found when I list those. I was counting the number of colors that each appearance came in, but on one of the robes, once I got to color pattern #17 and got to a red robe with white trim and red pants, I asked myself, "Now, did I already count that one, or did I count a red one with red trim and white pants? Gah!" So, on patterns I found with large numbers of color options, I'm just saying "available in multiple colors." <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Laiyo]

Thank you for doing that Sapphirius I can't wait to see the results and a dressing guide with screenshots will be extremely useful!

[Tokam]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>kcirrot wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'll bet money it's a technical issue.  As in "We could do that, but it would delay LU38, so we'll look into that later."</blockquote><p>Actually, that's exactly what I'm <i>hoping</i> it is.</p><p>In the meantime, I'm still compiling a list of the different designs for each armor, and I was simply astounded by the number of cloth options out there. I hope to have everything done by this afternoon to post. I may even write a dress-up guide with the screenshots I took. I'll be sure to link screenshots to each of the appearances that I found when I list those. I was counting the number of colors that each appearance came in, but on one of the robes, once I got to color pattern #17 and got to a red robe with white trim and red pants, I asked myself, "Now, did I already count that one, or did I count a red one with red trim and white pants? Gah!" So, on patterns I found with large numbers of color options, I'm just saying "available in multiple colors." <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>This has already been done on <a href="http://www.eq2alchemy.com/closet/index.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">eq2 alchemy</a> matey, to a lesser extent, and it would be great to see an updated list out there for robe collectors like me. The only issue of course is that I have been doing robes for the last 2 and a half years (still missing DMP <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) and was looking forward to being able to use some of the other armour types.

[madha]

<p>Please dont ever let none plate classes ware plate. Dressing up as people are calling it is just stupid.  Next thing you know you will be asking for plate that drops to not be tank plate healer only so you can use it.  My god you have been a cloth user for years now what makes you think you should be aloud to use plate armor even for apperance. Your sissy little arms cant even pick up the armor let alone walk around with it equipt.</p><p>Devs just [Removed for Content] this in the bud and cancel this update cause these peopel will get you to change ur mind again and let them use plate or chain or leather when they are a cloth class and it will upset thre rest of the comunity. The will whine and mone when tanks are in their ugly robes that they have hated for years and they cannot ware plate that tanks have hated for years.</p><p>Or better yet add cool sexah looking cloth to the game so people can play with the appreance of the cloth and not want to have plate chain on a mage.</p>

[denmom]

<cite>Lightstrider wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think it's a logic issue.  Prior to this update, the logic of armor was that casters wear cloth, tanks wear plate, etc.  A tank could choose to wear cloth, which was less protection, but a caster could not choose to wear plate.  With the update, the point seems to be to allow a character to wear an old armor set whose appearance they liked, or at least that all matches.  But seeing a caster running around in plate would be confusing, since they don't really do that.  I think the update was intended to give us some control over our appearance, but not to disrupt the natural game logic.</blockquote>I've brought this up before.In DFC the casters, Deathfist Bloodguard, wear a plate with chain mesh combo.There's game precedence, albeit a mob, but precedence none the less that casters <i><b>can</b></i> wear plate and chain.The game mechanics <i><b>support</b></i> this.  If they didn't, then the orc wizards shouldn't be fighting in plate and chain mesh and should instead properly be in <i><b>robes</b></i> as the players are.So in regards to natural game logic, that's been tripped by DFC mobs.  Elsewhere, another poster pointed out the guards to Lucan in the SoD line, casters in armour.  That's two examples.  I'm sure others could be found, clear cut cases of the mobs being able to do something that the players, by logic, should be able to as well.

[Cusashorn]

<cite>denmom wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lightstrider wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think it's a logic issue.  Prior to this update, the logic of armor was that casters wear cloth, tanks wear plate, etc.  A tank could choose to wear cloth, which was less protection, but a caster could not choose to wear plate.  With the update, the point seems to be to allow a character to wear an old armor set whose appearance they liked, or at least that all matches.  But seeing a caster running around in plate would be confusing, since they don't really do that.  I think the update was intended to give us some control over our appearance, but not to disrupt the natural game logic.</blockquote>I've brought this up before.In DFC the casters, Deathfist Bloodguard, wear a plate with chain mesh combo.There's game precedence, albeit a mob, but precedence none the less that casters <i><b>can</b></i> wear plate and chain.The game mechanics <i><b>support</b></i> this.  If they didn't, then the orc wizards shouldn't be fighting in plate and chain mesh and should instead properly be in <i><b>robes</b></i> as the players are.So in regards to natural game logic, that's been tripped by DFC mobs.  Elsewhere, another poster pointed out the guards to Lucan in the SoD line, casters in armour.  That's two examples.  I'm sure others could be found, clear cut cases of the mobs being able to do something that the players, by logic, should be able to as well.</blockquote>It's more of a matter that they simply didn't program the orc models to display robes, Denmom...

[Sapphirius]

<cite>Laiyo wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thank you for doing that Sapphirius I can't wait to see the results and a dressing guide with screenshots will be extremely useful!</blockquote><p>Well, it's as complete as I can make it for the time being. I will go back in and add sets as I can find them, and I've made notations of what sets are not displayed that I am aware of. So far, sorted by <i>distinct patterns</i>, there are...</p><p><b>CLOTH: (22)</b></p><p>11 Robes Pictured</p><p>8 Pant Suits Pictured</p><p><b>LEATHER: (26)</b></p><p>4 Gis Pictured</p><p>19 Suits Pictured</p><p><b>CHAIN: (16)</b></p><p>14 Suits Pictured</p><p><b>PLATE: (12)</b></p><p>5 Plate Suits Pictured</p><p>6 Vanguard Suits Pictured</p><p>You can see the screenshots I took in <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=381310" target="_blank">this thread</a>. Please note that the collections are <i>not</i> complete. I've taken that into account when tallying up the number of <i>distinct appearances</i> in each weight as I know of four other leather suits not pictured in the thread because I could not find them when I searched. I also know of other cloth, chain, and plate appearances.</p><p>The numbers listed earlier by another poster about the number of individual pieces in each weight of armor did <i>not</i> take into account pieces that share the exact same graphic and color but have different names. As the weight of the armor increases, repeat graphics and colors also become more common.</p><p>EDIT: Someone pointed out to me that I did not have the Caliginous Folds in the cloth robe collection.</p>

[denmom]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>denmom wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lightstrider wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think it's a logic issue.  Prior to this update, the logic of armor was that casters wear cloth, tanks wear plate, etc.  A tank could choose to wear cloth, which was less protection, but a caster could not choose to wear plate.  With the update, the point seems to be to allow a character to wear an old armor set whose appearance they liked, or at least that all matches.  But seeing a caster running around in plate would be confusing, since they don't really do that.  I think the update was intended to give us some control over our appearance, but not to disrupt the natural game logic.</blockquote>I've brought this up before.In DFC the casters, Deathfist Bloodguard, wear a plate with chain mesh combo.There's game precedence, albeit a mob, but precedence none the less that casters <i><b>can</b></i> wear plate and chain.The game mechanics <i><b>support</b></i> this.  If they didn't, then the orc wizards shouldn't be fighting in plate and chain mesh and should instead properly be in <i><b>robes</b></i> as the players are.So in regards to natural game logic, that's been tripped by DFC mobs.  Elsewhere, another poster pointed out the guards to Lucan in the SoD line, casters in armour.  That's two examples.  I'm sure others could be found, clear cut cases of the mobs being able to do something that the players, by logic, should be able to as well.</blockquote>It's more of a matter that they simply didn't program the orc models to display robes, Denmom...</blockquote>I'm not arguing, just pointing out an example of what others say isn't done, mages in armour.But yah, I understand that the orc model comes in few designs and they had to go with what they had.Back to lurking for me...

[Vatec]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>denmom wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lightstrider wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think it's a logic issue.  Prior to this update, the logic of armor was that casters wear cloth, tanks wear plate, etc.  A tank could choose to wear cloth, which was less protection, but a caster could not choose to wear plate.  With the update, the point seems to be to allow a character to wear an old armor set whose appearance they liked, or at least that all matches.  But seeing a caster running around in plate would be confusing, since they don't really do that.  I think the update was intended to give us some control over our appearance, but not to disrupt the natural game logic.</blockquote>I've brought this up before.In DFC the casters, Deathfist Bloodguard, wear a plate with chain mesh combo.There's game precedence, albeit a mob, but precedence none the less that casters <i><b>can</b></i> wear plate and chain.The game mechanics <i><b>support</b></i> this.  If they didn't, then the orc wizards shouldn't be fighting in plate and chain mesh and should instead properly be in <i><b>robes</b></i> as the players are.So in regards to natural game logic, that's been tripped by DFC mobs.  Elsewhere, another poster pointed out the guards to Lucan in the SoD line, casters in armour.  That's two examples.  I'm sure others could be found, clear cut cases of the mobs being able to do something that the players, by logic, should be able to as well.</blockquote>It's more of a matter that they simply didn't program the orc models to display robes, Denmom...</blockquote>And you know this ... how?  Newly-developed psychic powers, perhaps?Until it gets changed, it's canon:  orc wizards can wear plate armor ;^)

[Zarafein]

Well they don't realy wear armor, its part of their model as far as i know, gues its the same reason why we can't wear the nice mistmoore vampire outfits for example.

[Armawk]

<cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote>Until it gets changed, it's canon:  orc wizards can wear plate armor ;^)</blockquote><p>Cool, which cities can an orc player character start in?</p><p>Id also like to be able to fly and wear nothing at all while still casting spells and having massive melee dps.. I mean dragons in the game can, why cant I? whats up with that?</p><p>Apologies for the sarcasm but I guess you take my point?</p>

[Vatec]

<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote>Until it gets changed, it's canon:  orc wizards can wear plate armor ;^)</blockquote><p>Cool, which cities can an orc player character start in?</p><p>Id also like to be able to fly and wear nothing at all while still casting spells and having massive melee dps.. I mean dragons in the game can, why cant I? whats up with that?</p><p>Apologies for the sarcasm but I guess you take my point?</p></blockquote>Orcs are a sentient humanoid race.  Much more similar to humans/elves/dwarves/ratonga/frogloks than dragons are.Maybe orcs are special and their =mages= can cast spells while wearing armor while ours can't.But whatever the case may be, it really annoys me when other players post what they =think= the reason is for something as if it were =fact.=  Just call it my personal crusade to make people think twice and consider whether what they're posting is a fact, a theory, or just an opinion, and then to present it accordingly.

[Deggials]

<p>Something that i feel should happen with appearance slots.</p><p> Tinkered goggles should be able to be used from there (just remove the stats +10 health +10 pow loss isnt that much of a loss) </p><p>A Charm slot or 2  should be opened up for non stat items like a torch, divining rods etc</p>

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>I thought Deathfist Bloodguards were Shadowknights? Am I thinking of the wrong mob? Bloodguard doesnt sound very "castery" to me tbh.</p><p>Also dont forget that many models in the game say one type of armour while looking nothing like that armour. Flayed Vultak Leggings for one example. Those huge dragon winged spaulders that should be plate but are chain etc...</p><p>Could be the armour looks like plate but its not. *shrug*</p>

[denmom]

<cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I thought Deathfist Bloodguards were Shadowknights? Am I thinking of the wrong mob? Bloodguard doesnt sound very "castery" to me tbh.</p><p>Also dont forget that many models in the game say one type of armour while looking nothing like that armour. Flayed Vultak Leggings for one example. Those huge dragon winged spaulders that should be plate but are chain etc...</p><p>Could be the armour looks like plate but its not. *shrug*</p></blockquote>I'm pretty sure it's the Bloodguard, they're around Fist at the end fight.Also in the sewers, right as you open the door is the first of those armoured casters, tho sometimes they'll be in the miner area in the sewers.Freaked us out on our first run of the new revamped DFC...were ready for a Quizzie or SK based on the armour but when Cold Shield dropped we were surprised because the caster had armour not the usual robes.Yes, guilty of telling a mob by what it wears, because, frankly, it is usually a good way to at least tell class.  You have to look a buffs to tell what type of that class, such as Warden or Fury.  We also noticed that not many of the mobs were buffed and you didn't know until it threw the first attack <i><b>what</b></i> it was.I love our blender runs thru DFC...it's like Blues Brothers: on a mission for the Greenhoods, we can't be stopped.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[xpraetorianx]

I dont feel like having my post lost in 50 page threads so in the Wisdom of a Developer here is a new thread about the proposed change to ALLOW ANY ITEM YOUR CLASS CAN WEAR use in the appearance area.This really RULES out any Mage from being Creative...  A mage cant wear anything above them..(cloth and well CLOTH)However a plate wearer can wear EVERYTHING and therefore has the greatest ability to customize appearance.  Not exactly fair treatment.. Considering I am a Mage that was hoping on Equipping some funky plate because its ONLY FOR FUN... who cares if a Warlock was wearing plate.. Whoppdee Dooo.  Its not like it affects anything... What about all the stupid tanks that are gonna be running around in Cloth Armor?  Where is that debate?  Ok I am a Mage and I dont want Tanks running around in my armor.. hows that?  There I [I cannot control my vocabulary] can I get my way? Come on Developers.  Make it fair and make the appearance tab for fun... Honestly.   Why do Classes WITH restrictions get the short end of the stick?  Thats rediculous.Also, if I dont want to see appearance changes from other players I shouldnt be forced to see it.  Is there an option to disable the custom appearance?  This is gonna really screw with some servers.

[Tandy]

<p>I have 3 mage characters. When I created those characters I KNEW I would be limited to cloth armor. As you progress higher on armor types you can wear things lower, game mechanic that has existed since game came out.</p><p>I see no problem here at all.</p><p>Game mechanics are still in place, no rules have been broken, changed or modified. We simply have additional slots to equip things to display over our standard gear.</p><p>This is the exact same things that are in game and will be in game and have always been in game. If anyone wanted to gripe, complain or otherwise show that they disagreed with these things, back when mages were limited to cloth gear would have been a good time to do so.</p>

[Lodrelhai]

<p>While I understand that a 50-page thread is a rather daunting thing, a large portion of those 50 pages are on exactly that.  Rothgar's statements about it can be found <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=285&topic_id=379858�" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">here</a> and <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=300&topic_id=379858�" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">here</a>.</p><p>You'll notice he asked specifically if mage-players felt we were getting the shaft on this.  The majority of the answer was no - we knew we were limited to cloth at the time or soon after we rolled our mages.</p><p>Would I like to see open-options for appearance?  Absolutely.  I think that removing the imposition of current-class-or-heavier armor was a step in the right direction.  And I definitely hope that there will be more clothing options added for all.</p><p>In the meantime (and sadly, you'll hear this a lot) there are some plate-mail options for mages who want a battlemage look.  The Bloodlines Chronicles camps offer cloth-class armor that looks like plate if you have that adventure pack - the Bretheren have black armor, and the Hand of Marr shiny silver with duller arm and leg pieces.  Status merchants also sell some sets - I know the Qeynos Guard faction has two different sets.  They aren't perfect solutions by any means, and both require a fair bit of work, but they're available.</p><p>Still hoping for no-limits, but I suspect some major revamping of 'equipable' flags on armor would be required.  After all, as it stands the appearance slots are probably coded to recognize whether a character can wear something using the same criteria as whether or not they can wear normal armor.  We'll see where it goes from here.</p><p>Keep hoping!  So far changes to both appearance slots and the widgets show the devs hear us!</p>

[Catria]

<p>However unfair it may seem, the fact remains that this really does not change anything appearance-wise, other than the fact that we can now equip items for looks only without sacrificing stats.  I have several mages, and yes, I find it frustrating that there is so little choice as far as armor goes, but as a prior poster stated, its been that way from the beginning.  </p><p>Look at it this way, at least now you get your choice of which robe you want to be seen wearing rather than being stuck with one because it has the best stats. </p>

[Wilde_Night]

Those Bloodguards are Shadowknights.  I have suffered several harm touches by their hands.

[Cayden]

There are some decent cloth armor options for looks also...Black Silk looks great and there are some pants like the Webbed Pants that look great too.

[denmom]

<cite>Aeviel@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Those Bloodguards are Shadowknights.  I have suffered several harm touches by their hands.</blockquote>Okay, so I've possibly the wrong naming of the mobs, but I do know that the mages are armoured.Shadowknights don't drop Cold Shield.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Annnd topic drift...I'll hush now...

[Bhagpuss]

<cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote>Until it gets changed, it's canon:  orc wizards can wear plate armor ;^)</blockquote>The concept of <i>anything</i> in EQ2 being "canon" made me smile. On the substantive topic of the new Appearance tab, I'm blessed if I can see any possible reason for it other than commercial expediency (i.e. not losing competetive advantage with other companies' products).If a Paladin character chooses to wear a Chain breastplate because it is more effective in helping him fight (has better stats in other words), then he is just going to look like a Paladin who cares more about being good at what he does than looking good while he does it. If internal logic or credibility was going to have any relevance here, the ability to be wearing one thing while appearing to wear another could have been handled by the in-game mechanism of "magic" - a transformational device, a potion, a glamour, whatever - there are a myriad ways in a high-fantasy setting to have others see you appear different from your true appearance.The Appearance tab solution follows the ongoing development path EQ2 has taken pretty much since launch, which is to prioritise convenience over any form of virtual-world coherency. I personally don't have a problem with that - EQ2 is now 100% a video game, with no lingering pretensions to be a Virtual World, and I now play it in that spirit. The idea of such an approach also allowing for the accretion of anything approaching a canon, however, is somewhere beyond irony.

[Swashbuckler_Tisiphone]

<p>hehe I mentioned it earlier, about the end of sod and the freeport guards that are casters, and called spell splitters? and talk of thier spells splitting skulls as well as thier swords? on top of that they are wearing the warlock class helmet, you can also find a great quiantity of similar tho not spellsplitter type guards around neriak and in DLW< I wish someone finishing thier sod could take a picture of it...and why does it say in some strategy guides for eq2 that lucan is considered a necro when he is a fallen paladin/ or am I mistaken, if a necro, then somewhat odd to be wearing plate armor =)</p><p>anyhows that aside, I was using that in the other thread to show that yes there ar a few, albeit literally a few,  occasions in which a caster mob is dressed ins something other then VLa/silk, amusing at least,  as it is now tih it back to prior restrictions there are a couple plate graphics magi can wear, tho  as I only have a necro for a alt that's a caster, I can still truly say, some better/more robe designs and a bit more choices for casters would be a nice thing, in the spirit of fairness,</p><p>I mean carbon copy cookie cutter armor does get old..as entertaining as it was to see everyone in t5 wear either the robe of the invoker or the one purple robe with the gold trim...it does get a bit annoying hehe</p><p><edited area> I know there are plenty of colors, but a few oringinal cuts and designs would be awesome is all am stating, more or less playing devils advocate here ( and poorly as well I'd imagine :/), oh and sapphy? have you seen the leather helmet that can be worn by leather,chain,plate wearers? called the rockpounder headguard? my warden often wears that+ the banisters robe when fighting trival things and when in town <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />, it's a fairly neat hat</p>

[miliskel]

theres a quest in loping planes for a blue/ white robe that looks rather nice, and theres a blac one from zek quests and im currently working on both..

[ke'la]

<p>You want a battel mage? here you go... its not the BEST solution but it is A solution atleast until, the devs can have design away to allow you to equip any iteam in your fluff slot... I have an Idea on that but I think I need to get it more fleshed out befor I post it in Looks and Feels or Possably Tradeskill depending on wich way I go with it. After all that the "Battle Mage"</p><p><img src="http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n65/kela_012/MageInPlate.jpg" alt="" width="210" height="613" border="0" /></p>

[Belaythien]

I think it is logical: plate weares can throw a robe over their plate armor. As it is weaker than plate, it is sensible to get no bonus from it. However, cloth wearers suddenly wearing plate armor contradicts the system in place and would be less realistic (yes, yes, magic and all but there's a point where it just gets too absurd), even if you don't get any benefits from it. Either way I think these appearance slots are a bad idea. It kills a lot of atmosphere when a main tank is dancing around in a robe. Also it seems to be a lazy workaround so they don't have to implement dyes, which the community has been asking for since day one <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />. That would have been sensible; not some system where you can wear whatever you want just for looks. The devs said they didn't want to implement dyes because armor should look "unique". This alternate stuff is even worse <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Rattfa]

<cite>Sharpcharm@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote>I dont feel like having my post lost in 50 page threads so in the Wisdom of a Developer here is a new thread about the proposed change to ALLOW ANY ITEM YOUR CLASS CAN WEAR use in the appearance area.This really RULES out any Mage from being Creative...  A mage cant wear anything above them..(cloth and well CLOTH)However a plate wearer can wear EVERYTHING and therefore has the greatest ability to customize appearance.  Not exactly fair treatment.. Considering I am a Mage that was hoping on Equipping some funky plate because its ONLY FOR FUN... who cares if a Warlock was wearing plate.. Whoppdee Dooo.  Its not like it affects anything... What about all the stupid tanks that are gonna be running around in Cloth Armor?  Where is that debate?  Ok I am a Mage and I dont want Tanks running around in my armor.. hows that?  There I [I cannot control my vocabulary] can I get my way? Come on Developers.  Make it fair and make the appearance tab for fun... Honestly.   Why do Classes WITH restrictions get the short end of the stick?  Thats rediculous.Also, if I dont want to see appearance changes from other players I shouldnt be forced to see it.  Is there an option to disable the custom appearance?  This is gonna really screw with some servers.</blockquote>So basically you're saying because you cannot change your appearance, you dont want to see anyone else's changed appearance?LOLWhy don't you just ask them to make every player in the game invisible, because lets face it, the rest of the population is running around in armour that you cant wear.Mages wear cloth. End of story. It's been like that for the entire time eq2 has been live. Get over it imo

[Iseabeil]

<cite>Belaythien wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think it is logical: plate weares can throw a robe over their plate armor. As it is weaker than plate, it is sensible to get no bonus from it. However, cloth wearers suddenly wearing plate armor contradicts the system in place and would be less realistic (yes, yes, magic and all but there's a point where it just gets too absurd), even if you don't get any benefits from it. </blockquote><p>*Takes her templar in full plate and covers it all with chainmail...* Its pretty understandable to toss a robe over pretty much anything, but as it isnt a matter of 'Appearance slots! Wear any robe you want over your normal armour!', the realistic idea of it goes out the window. Oh, my swashie will wear leather <i>above</i> her chain.. Now, I know people used to wear fabrics of different types along with both chain and plate.. but that was bellow the chain/plate. Seriously, try putting tightfit leather atop of a bulky piece of plate and imagine how it would look. Obviously, the 'logic' everyone likes to use, isnt really waterproof. And the idea that mages should have less choise because they knew they were limited to cloth when created.. Well, I knew my SK was limited to plate if I wanted her to be an acceptable tank. Sure, there is a differance in being able to use somethin at all, and being able to use somethin whilst doin their job, but the differance isnt as big as some would have it look. A guardian tanking an avatar in a tier1 robe looks just as 'odd' as a mage nuking in vanguard.</p><p>I dont care all that much, Im not gonna waste my time to get my illusionist up to 20k faction for the ability to wear plate, and for all thats holy.. Bloodlines Plate armour.. that doesnt even count <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> The marr side's is seperated in two 'styles' that dont match in any way, besides both being plate. It seriously looks just as bad as what they want to let tanks get away from. The brethren version is seperated in two styles as well.. cept this time its plate and Tier 3 crafted <i>leather</i>. I really think that is what bugs me the most, not the fact that mages are the red headed step child on this matter, but seeing people claim there are choises for mages as justification... Yes, there are, if you have atleast 20k faction with one of the 'guilds' that offer ceremonial plate and are ready to pay 25k status per piece (not sure exactly how many pieces would be needed, but atleast 3 if skipping boots, gloves etc). Meanwhile, someone in a level 25 or higher guild can buy one of the most spectacular female outfits for 21k status a piece.. and only need 2 for a set. </p><p>There is a really easie thing they actually could do, that I think would appease a lot of people. Make <i>all</i> status clothing into cloth. Why can the qeynos guards spin cloth into metal and not the city merchants? </p><p>aITEM 886601319 1693847524:Shadow's Weave/a and aITEM -1231762791 -432671319:striking woven tunic/a looks identical. One is fabled, the other is, well, no real tag. The fabled one is cloth, the no tag is leather. Why should a mage have to find a fabled to equip in their fluff slot just to be able to have the apperance? Tag it all as cloth, and everyone will have choises on appearance, dont even need to make the heavy duty fabled plate equipable by mages in fluff slots. </p><p>Really, the limitations on mages is not what irks me most, its the +50 pages of cries when the other classes got same limitations as mages, and then essentially saying its totally oki that only mages have those limitations when its reverted.</p><p>Oh, and to the person I quoted, this wasnt really a responce to your post, it just worked as a quote to start working myself up on *grins*</p>

[Grumpy_Warrior_01]

<p><strike>I notice the cloak slot is not enabled on the alternate appearance tab.  Any chance the developers would allow us to put a different cloak in there, so we can wear our guild colors instead of the cloak of flames, for example?  Thank you.</strike></p><p>Never mind, I was looking at the screen shots wrong.  Looks like we can do this.  I'm happy.  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[NosajMa]

Who would you rather hear [Removed for Content] from? 1. Mages who aren't allowed to wear anything but cloth for their appearance.2. All non-mages who have to deal with mages rolling on non-cloth purely because they want it for the look and not because they can actually <i>use</i> the item.Yeah, I'd do what the devs did and go with option number 1.

[Sapphirius]

<p>Well, if it were limited to just what that class could wear so that no one but mages could wear cloth, then plate wearers would be the ones shafted... BIG TIME... as well as chain wearers.</p><p>Mages have 22 disctinct cloth appearances. Leather has 26 (including gis), chain 16, and plate only 12. It could be argued that plate has only 2 distinct appearances because all the plate armor looks the same and all the vanguard armor looks the same. Just as it could be argued that mages have only 10 distinct appearances because all the robes look the same. Even if you were to go that route, plate would still be the armor weight with the <i>least</i> number of distinct appearances with chain following at a close second. It's really no wonder that the armor weight restrictions were so strongly opposed.</p><p>(<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=381310" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">This thread</a> sorted armor appearances by weight, style, and then <i>texture</i> of fabric. The collections are <i>not</i> complete. There are some appearances that are <i>not</i> pictured. That was taken into account when tallying up the number of distinct appearances for each armor weight.)</p><p>While I agree that restrictions of any sort are bad, I'm thinking that the reason they weren't <i>totally</i> freed up probably had more to do with a mechanics issue than anything else. It would be nice to hear from a dev with an exact reason why, but until then, all we can do is speculate. In the meantime, I've shifted my focus to reintroducing actual vests and <i>non</i>-baggy pants to <i>crafted</i> cloth armor and to increasing the variety of appearances for cloth. (Once upon a time, cloth had the most variety for armor apearances. That all changed with Beghn's lovely work in LU 24 when he gutted the tradeskill system.)</p>

[Aenielle]

<cite>NosajMaxX wrote:</cite><blockquote>Who would you rather hear [I cannot control my vocabulary] from? 1. Mages who aren't allowed to wear anything but cloth for their appearance.2. All non-mages who have to deal with mages rolling on non-cloth purely because they want it for the look and not because they can actually <i>use</i> the item.Yeah, I'd do what the devs did and go with option number 1.</blockquote>The biggotry of this post just made me sick.So it is ok for all the other classes to roll on cloth that mages can use for the "looks only" but it would be a terrible crime to allow mages to , heaven forbid. roll on anything that isnt cloth.Devs made a stupid and not thought through decision of placing the appearance tabs on the test in the unfinished state- causing cloth werers to get shafted, and plate wearers to have an unfair advantage in customising their looks.When they realised it they tried to make it right easy way, by limiting the options for all classes, maki ng them wear only their class appropriate armor. Well big surprise, 3/4 of the playing masses (counting scouts, fighters and healers that went back to being limited) didnt like the new change. Doh!That still doesnt change the fact that the 1/4 of us did get SHAFTED.Not only will our customisation choices be the most limited in the game (how many different model robes do you know of?), there will be nothing stopping anyone and their mother rolling on any decent looking cloth items.So wichever brilliant dev started working on this thing in the first place should rethink this entire mess he/she created before it goes to live and escalets into something nastier then the forum bickering.Yes, you screwed up, big time.Fix it.

[Josgar]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well, if it were limited to just what that class could wear so that no one but mages could wear cloth, then plate wearers would be the ones shafted... BIG TIME... as well as chain wearers.</p><p>Mages have 22 disctinct cloth appearances. Leather has 26 (including gis), chain 16, and plate only 12. It could be argued that plate has only 2 distinct appearances because all the plate armor looks the same and all the vanguard armor looks the same. Just as it could be argued that mages have only 10 distinct appearances because all the robes look the same. Even if you were to go that route, plate would still be the armor weight with the <i>least</i> number of distinct appearances with chain following at a close second. It's really no wonder that the armor weight restrictions were so strongly opposed.</p><p>(<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=381310" target="_blank">This thread</a> sorted armor appearances by weight, style, and then <i>texture</i> of fabric. The collections are <i>not</i> complete. There are some appearances that are <i>not</i> pictured. That was taken into account when tallying up the number of distinct appearances for each armor weight.)</p><p>While I agree that restrictions of any sort are bad, I'm thinking that the reason they weren't <i>totally</i> freed up probably had more to do with a mechanics issue than anything else. It would be nice to hear from a dev with an exact reason why, but until then, all we can do is speculate. In the meantime, I've shifted my focus to reintroducing actual vests and <i>non</i>-baggy pants to <i>crafted</i> cloth armor and to increasing the variety of appearances for cloth. (Once upon a time, cloth had the most variety for armor apearances. That all changed with Beghn's lovely work in LU 24 when he gutted the tradeskill system.)</p></blockquote>No, because plate wearers can wear those robes so they have  22+26+16+12= 76 distinct appearances they can use.

[Tokam]

<cite>Catria wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>However unfair it may seem, the fact remains that this really does not change anything appearance-wise, other than the fact that we can now equip items for looks only without sacrificing stats.  I have several mages, and yes, I find it frustrating that there is so little choice as far as armor goes, but as a prior poster stated, its been that way from the beginning.  </p><p>Look at it this way, at least now you get your choice of which robe you want to be seen wearing rather than being stuck with one because it has the best stats. </p></blockquote><p>How long 'this has been the case' has absolutley nothing to do with this argument. Prior to LU 38, if my giuld wanted to go out and do something that was not completely trivial then we would all be needing our best gear and what we looked like would not be a concideration. (Please try to understand, pre lu 38 no one had any choice over what they looked like if they wanted to get stuff done.)</p><p>Post LU 38 if we wanted to go out and kill Mayong (throne room) then, again, everyone would wear the right gear to get the job done. However plate classes get to customise their appearance choosing from the vast majority of armour in the game, where as mages get to choose between the 5 or so different robe models (thats models not textures).</p><p>Limiting any players ability to use fluff items just seems lazy and / or short sighted to me. I can not understand why a fluff ability is being given to some and being restricted to others.</p>

[Sapphirius]

<cite>Josgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>No, because plate wearers can wear those robes so they have  22+26+16+12= 76 distinct appearances they can use.</blockquote><p>Please reread the first sentence of that post thoroughly before making statements like this. You obviously missed out on a very important detail when you typed this out.<i> </i></p><p><cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Well, <span style="color: #ffff00;">if</span> it were limited to just what that class could wear <span style="color: #ffff00;">so that no one <b><i>but</i></b> mages could wear cloth</span></blockquote><p><i>NOW</i> they do, yes. But before they returned the restrictions to their original state, they only had 12 appearances to choose from, and one of those 12 was only if they were in KOS fabled, <i>unless</i> they wanted to sacrifice mitigation and stats. I'm not happy that mages are still restricted either, but freeing it up to this point is a step in the right direction. Now, we need to keep stepping in the right direction instead of demanding that we go backwards.</p><p>Before we can step further in the right direction though, we need to know <i><b><u>why</u></b></i> the restrictions weren't lifted for all classes.</p><p>BTW, any group that would allow someone to roll on an item for appearance over someone who actually <i>needs</i> the item isn't worth grouping with again. In fact, I'd place such a group on my ignore list and make it known that they don't believe in the concept of "Need Before Greed."</p>

[Finora]

<cite>Iseabeil wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>There is a really easie thing they actually could do, that I think would appease a lot of people. Make <i>all</i> status clothing into cloth. Why can the qeynos guards spin cloth into metal and not the city merchants? </p><p>Really, the limitations on mages is not what irks me most, its the +50 pages of cries when the other classes got same limitations as mages, and then essentially saying its totally oki that only mages have those limitations when its reverted.</p><p>Oh, and to the person I quoted, this wasnt really a responce to your post, it just worked as a quote to start working myself up on *grins*</p></blockquote><p>I agree with the all status armor should be equipable by all. It is pure fluff, there isn't any reason for it not to be usable by all. If they must, remove all the mitigation from it, it never served any purpose anyhow and with appearance slots incoming the fluff armor is just going to go there anyway, so mitigation is a non-issue.</p><p>I disagree with your statement about the thread and the mages having restrictions. The outcry was about artificial restrictions put on other classes by the restrictions that were put on appearance slot armor. Mages lose nothing as they can only wear cloth anyhow. Other classes can (and do for appearance reasons) equip other items. However when they do they are no where near as effective as they would be wearing their natural armor. It follows the rules of the game as it is now and that's fine as far as I can see (and yes, I do have mage type characters and I think it is perfectly fair.)</p><p>And honestly, aren't the cloth wearers the folks who've been complaining for ages about the "ugly robes", now you are suddenly concerned some tank is going to start wearing your "ugly robes" to make themselves look better? How does that make sense? And yes, cloth used to have a huge variety of looks until the TS revamp of lu 24 went and made everything look like bloomers and robes (boo!). So blame LU 24, not the devs that are trying to help the problem.</p><p>And anyone who doesn't wear cloth that rolls against a cloth caster that would actually USE a cloth item... well there aren't words for the kind of jerk that is, and that individual would very quickly get a bad rep and likely wouldn't be getting many more groups. If that happened in pretty much any decent guild that person would be kicked out on their ear pretty quickly as would any mage that tried to roll on plate stuff against a tank or cleric, so I am not worrying about that at all.</p><p>Another big plus with the restrictions as they are currently is that it gives the option to have more fluff items added to crafter's recipe books, rather than just having everything opened up to everyone all the time. Ceremonial armors and robes, etc etc, now wouldn't that be wonderful? Stuff that is made JUST for looks, great for standard players and those who choose to craft. I'd hope to see this sort of thing some time after Kunark's release.</p><p>To another poster, yeah you did have choice prior to 38, you might not be perfectly min-maxed but you did have choice. Some of us choose to make the choice for looks and sacrifice some stats, many didn't. But they did have the choice.</p>

[echomaster]

<p>Oh no, there is an incredible feature that affects me to smaller degree than every other class. The horror.</p><p>I signed up for cloth when I rolled a Coercer, and I have no problem still wearing cloth. No restrictions were placed on me. I'm immensely happy that everyone will have more options to express their creativity and it does not bother me one bit. These threads about mages getting shafted are sensationalist and unnecessary.</p><p>You rolled a cloth-wearing class and now you're whining that you don't suddenly get to wear something heavier for appearance? Fighters, scouts, and priests already could wear those things. If you are this upset about not having as many clothing options, then you shouldn't have rolled a mage to start with. And claiming that berserkers shouldn't wear robes because they signed up for plate? <b>They could always wear robes.</b></p>

[Willias]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Before we can step further in the right direction though, we need to know <i><b><u>why</u></b></i> the restrictions weren't lifted for all classes.</blockquote>Simple.  More than likely, the appearance inventory screen doesn't function differently than the normal inventory screen.  Only difference is, the Appearance inventory is set to not use stats (essentially all items there are considered broken), and there was probably some code added that tells the game to use the appearance of the equipment in the Appearance slots over the equipment you have in the normal slots.Essentially:  To make it to where mages can equip higher than cloth in the appearance slots, they'd have to be able to wear it normally.  To change that, they'd probably have to write a ton of extra code for the Appearance inventory.

[Willias]

<cite>Aeviel@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Those Bloodguards are Shadowknights.  I have suffered several harm touches by their hands.</blockquote>Yeah.  They're shadowknights alright.Shadowknights that cast Ice Comet.  D:

[xpraetorianx]

Dont be stupid, I want to disable it for PVP servers so people cant abuse the system, because when you are being ganked you cant see the class fighting you...Sometimes I am just amazed by the lack of intelligence on this forum.

[Ironcleaver]

<cite>echomaster wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Oh no, there is an incredible feature that affects me to smaller degree than every other class. The horror.</p><p>I signed up for cloth when I rolled a Coercer, and I have no problem still wearing cloth. No restrictions were placed on me. I'm immensely happy that everyone will have more options to express their creativity and it does not bother me one bit. These threads about mages getting shafted are sensationalist and unnecessary.</p><p>You rolled a cloth-wearing class and now you're whining that you don't suddenly get to wear something heavier for appearance? Fighters, scouts, and priests already could wear those things. If you are this upset about not having as many clothing options, then you shouldn't have rolled a mage to start with. And claiming that berserkers shouldn't wear robes because they signed up for plate? <b>They could always wear robes.</b></p></blockquote>I'm not saying I completely disagree with you, but working with the same logic that is presented here - I signed up to play a Tier 1 DPS class when I chose a Wizard, which is clearly not what I received (sure under perfect buffs and raid equipment, but not otherwise which is 95% of the game). But getting back on subject...Lets take the extremes Mages and Plate Tanks. Mages can only wear Cloth, ok thats cool. Plate tanks can, if they like it or not, can wear cloth, leather, chain, and plate - which is also fine.This change dose not change the protection layer of armor but only the appearance. Now, if the Devs decided to keep the appearance layer as it was first stated, A Plate Tank could wear "cloth" as a protection layer and still have the appearance of cloth armor (or heavier). This is well within their rights as their class can wear any of the armor types. Now after the change, a Plate Tank can wear the protection of plate but have the appearance of cloth. Nothing has changed for the mage at all, the only advantage is that they can make matching sets of armor.The appearance layer was first created so that people had a way to wear matching sets of armor (an alternative to armor dyes), or any armor appearance combination that wished without changing their protection layer. It was stated by the Devs that they know, by opening the slots up for all the classes would in fact "shaft" the mage community and it is why they were shying away from it. There was such a demand for the change, the change was made.The argument is not about what each class could wear when first created, but what appearance illusion can be made with the current changes. That's the difference. The "non-shaft" way of doing the appearance layer, was the way it was first designed, everyone could have a matching set of armor knowing that it was of the same armor type as their protection layer. The devs gave an inch in letting us have the appearance layer to begin with and people wanted more and still want more by asking for weapon and shield appearances as well.I do agree though, that there are a lot of roleplaying reasons for this change to happen, and those I fully support - what will happen though, naked people on raids (because they think it's funny) or to trick people in PvP (not like the person just can't hot-key the armor anyway, like whats done currently). I know in high fantasy, there are a lot of skimpy female fighters out there, and thats cool, I can support that (( <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /> )) - but also, in high fantasy mages can wear plate, is it encumbering, sure, but they psychically can do it.In the end, yes, the mage community has been "shafted" even though game mechanic wise, it makes since. Sure some mages feel that the call is fine, and in a way it is, but in another way, ignoring that your getting "shafted" is not the same as not being "shafted". The other way around this debate, is to remove the protection layer restrictions all together, but impost an ability penalty when not wearing a "preferred" armor type.

[Xova]

<cite>Sharpcharm@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dont be stupid, I want to disable it for PVP servers so people cant abuse the system, because when you are being ganked you cant see the class fighting you...Sometimes I am just amazed by the lack of intelligence on this forum.</blockquote><p>That's why you look at buffs, profession titles, weapons, combat animations, pets...</p><p>If you are only relying on your opponent's clothing to determine your plan of attack, then YOU are the one who isn't playing smart.</p><p>'Cause you know, I think a robe-wearing barbarian wielding a big axe and a buckler would be a pretty good indication that you're not fighting a mage...</p><p>On topic - I personally think that what would be good in the long run would be for tailors/armorers to get fluff armor recipes that would allow us to create armor with plate, chain, leather, cloth appearances that are wearable by any class. That way mages who wanted to could truly be plate-wearing battle mages, etc. and so forth.</p><p>But otherwise, I'm happy that the developers saw fit to remove the restrictions and I think it's the best decision for the time being. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[greenmantle]

<cite>Siclone wrote:</cite><blockquote>so everyone posting here is fine with tanks tanking in robes or clothing?that wont effect the realism factor at all will it? </blockquote><p>Come on i grouped with a pink frog a 7ft tom cat it really doesnt make a difference if they are in robes or armor its still a talking frog. </p><p>Yay for the change</p>

[Novusod]

Today I grouped with someone who looked like a box and another who looked like a snowman. A mage in plate armor is nothing compaired to that non-sence

[Sapphirius]

Heh. the first time I saw that box illusion wandering around Qeynos Harbor, I blinked my eyes a few times to make sure I was actually seeing what was on my screen.

[ke'la]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Josgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>No, because plate wearers can wear those robes so they have  22+26+16+12= 76 distinct appearances they can use.</blockquote><p>Please reread the first sentence of that post thoroughly before making statements like this. You obviously missed out on a very important detail when you typed this out.<i> </i></p><p><cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Well, <span style="color: #ffff00;">if</span> it were limited to just what that class could wear <span style="color: #ffff00;">so that no one <b><i>but</i></b> mages could wear cloth</span></blockquote><p><i>NOW</i> they do, yes. But before they returned the restrictions to their original state, they only had 12 appearances to choose from, and one of those 12 was only if they were in KOS fabled, <i>unless</i> they wanted to sacrifice mitigation and stats. I'm not happy that mages are still restricted either, but freeing it up to this point is a step in the right direction. Now, we need to keep stepping in the right direction instead of demanding that we go backwards.</p><p>Before we can step further in the right direction though, we need to know <i><b><u>why</u></b></i> the restrictions weren't lifted for all classes.</p><p>BTW, any group that would allow someone to roll on an item for appearance over someone who actually <i>needs</i> the item isn't worth grouping with again. In fact, I'd place such a group on my ignore list and make it known that they don't believe in the concept of "Need Before Greed."</p></blockquote><p>I think the reason why is a game mechanic. As for another step in the right direction, how about adding new Vendors into the game next to the current NPC Armorsmiths, Tailors and so forth, call them Armor Costumers or something and place on these NPCs Cloth versions(still with lvl restrictions) of armor iteam for sell from the Vendor it's standing next too. This would get around any mechanic issue they may have with removing restrictions while at the same time taking a big step tord removing the "shaft factor".</p><p>On a simlar but more time intencive note I also would like to see them revert the NPC vendors back to where they showed everything that you could equip even if it was VERY grey to you, because now there is a use for those lower tier iteams(and many of the iteams on the NPC vendors are Differant then what you can get from crafters)</p>

[Vatec]

GAAAAAH!I am not a "Ranger."  I am not a "Berserker."  I am not a "Conjurer."  I am a human being who plays multiple classes.So, to all the "Mages" out there, unless you have absolutely ZERO non-cloth-wearing alts, please use a little common sense.  You, the human being, are not getting "shafted."  Maybe some of your =characters= are, but =you= are not.To those very, very few of you who only play cloth-wearing classes, yes, =you= the human being might be missing out on something.  Let's see what we can do about fixing it without "shafting" the 99.7% of players who play scouts, healers, and tanks.To the rest of you, if you have even one single non-cloth-wearing character on one of your accounts, =you= are benefitting from this change.  I =certainly= hope you're not among those complaining about it....

[Armawk]

<cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am not a "Ranger."  I am not a "Berserker."  I am not a "Conjurer."  I am a human being who plays multiple classes.To the rest of you, if you have even one single non-cloth-wearing character on one of your accounts, =you= are benefitting from this change.  I =certainly= hope you're not among those complaining about it....</blockquote><p>The first is a salient point, but to a LOT of players here attachment to their characters is very close. To me they arent, and it makes me wince every time I read "us bruisers are getting nerfed again" or "as a swashbuckler I want to wear abc" but I keep quiet because thats how a lot of people enjoy seeing the game. </p><p>On the second, that makes zero sense, as many people see fair balance between classes as fundamental to the games success independent of their own choices of class, or primarily enjoy playing one type, or just have a main of one type that they are bothered about a lot. Someone who plays one of each archetype might equally be annoyed at something they see as unfair to one of their characters as someone who only plays that one.</p><p>Shaun</p><p>P.S. I might point out that some of us think that noone is benefitting from the change at all, given that we think it makes the game worse <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Vatec]

<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am not a "Ranger."  I am not a "Berserker."  I am not a "Conjurer."  I am a human being who plays multiple classes.To the rest of you, if you have even one single non-cloth-wearing character on one of your accounts, =you= are benefitting from this change.  I =certainly= hope you're not among those complaining about it....</blockquote><p>The first is a salient point, but to a LOT of players here attachment to their characters is very close. To me they arent, and it makes me wince every time I read "us bruisers are getting nerfed again" or "as a swashbuckler I want to wear abc" but I keep quiet because thats how a lot of people enjoy seeing the game. </p><p>On the second, that makes zero sense, as many people see fair balance between classes as fundamental to the games success independent of their own choices of class, or primarily enjoy playing one type, or just have a main of one type that they are bothered about a lot. Someone who plays one of each archetype might equally be annoyed at something they see as unfair to one of their characters as someone who only plays that one.</p><p>Shaun</p><p>P.S. I might point out that some of us think that noone is benefitting from the change at all, given that we think it makes the game worse <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></p></blockquote>To those who disagree with the change in general, this clearly doesn't apply, of course.  As for fair balance, I =really= don't see a problem:  After this change, no character will be able to wear a single thing that they couldn't wear before the change.  The only difference is they'll be able to wear the outfits they like in a lot more places than just running around town.On to the other topic....  We will take as given that certain people think the change is a benefit.  They express that they like the change, but are unhappy it's not being extended to cloth-wearers.  These people then express that they are getting "shafted" by the change because they are not getting a benefit.  But, unless they =only= play cloth-wearing classes, they =are= getting a benefit.  They're just not getting as much benefit as a player who only plays tanks or a player who only plays scouts.  But to say that they're not getting a benefit is disingenuous at best.  Furthermore, it's only likely to get the change nerfed back, which will "shaft" a heck of a lot more people than just them.People have the right to express whatever opinions they like.  But when their opinions are full of logical holes or are based of a fallacious understanding of facts, I have absolutely no problem with pointing these things out....

[Radigazt]

<p>Illusions:I don't have a problem with armor appearances differing from what's worn.  Honestly, think of it as an illusion form if that helps get your undies unbunched.  With that in mind, sure, lift all of the class restrictions.  Being a veteran player of City of Heros and City of Villains, I understand the fun and pride people put into personalizing their looks, and see how rewarding it will be.  As a PvP'er, I like the sense of the unknown that these illusionary armor appearances will bring ... it adds another split second to determine who in the group is the healer.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Paint/Dyes:Thinking of our armor as paints or dyes, we could choose only the same type of armors but make it look cooler--much like displaying our guild heraldry on cloaks but extended to every piece of armor.  This would work only if we kept the armor piece the same, but allowed a different look for that piece.  I.E., wearing chain armor means you could only equip a chain item in that appearance slot.  Makes sense and IMHO is probably the best solution.  </p><p>But honestly, I'm fine with either of those solutions or the original one the Devs made to allow us to equip appearance items that were wearable by that class but not lighter than we were wearing.  All 3 seem valid.  </p>

[Wilde_Night]

<cite>Ironcleaver wrote:</cite> <blockquote><blockquote>This change dose not change the protection layer of armor but only the appearance. Now, if the Devs decided to keep the appearance layer as it was first stated, A Plate Tank could wear "cloth" as a protection layer and still have the appearance of cloth armor (or heavier). This is well within their rights as their class can wear any of the armor types. Now after the change, a Plate Tank can wear the protection of plate but have the appearance of cloth. Nothing has changed for the mage at all, the only advantage is that they can make matching sets of armor.</blockquote></blockquote>Actually, this way is the first way it was implemented.  They then changed it to only be able to wear something the same or heavier... only to change it back to anything your class can equip, no matter the weight, your character could use in the Appearance slots.

[Krieg]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Even though I know how much people love reading 50-page threads, I thought I'd start a new one anyway.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />A change should be going out to the Test server later today that removes the previous restrictions on appearance items.You'll now be able to equip anything in an appearance slot that is <b>usable by your class</b>.Greg "Rothgar" SpenceEQ2 Programmer</blockquote>Awesome!  Thank you!

[Sapphirius]

<cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>On a simlar but more time intencive note I also would like to see them revert the NPC vendors back to where they showed everything that you could equip <b>even if it was VERY grey to you</b>, because now there is a use for those lower tier iteams(and many of the iteams on the NPC vendors are Differant then what you can get from crafters)</p></blockquote>Hallelujah! With the current level set-up on the venders, I actually had to get a friend who was that level to buy the armor for me to get some of the looks I wanted.

[Finora]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>On a simlar but more time intencive note I also would like to see them revert the NPC vendors back to where they showed everything that you could equip <b>even if it was VERY grey to you</b>, because now there is a use for those lower tier iteams(and many of the iteams on the NPC vendors are Differant then what you can get from crafters)</p></blockquote>Hallelujah! With the current level set-up on the venders, I actually had to get a friend who was that level to buy the armor for me to get some of the looks I wanted.</blockquote>Oh yes, I know I'd like to wear some of that on several of my characters. Lucky for me I have a very wide range of levels available to look, many people don't though. I never did like that change to begin with.

[adolf102]

Just wanted to say I'm one of many who is very, very happy with introduction of this feature and announced in this thread change to original concept of wearing everything your class can use.Great change! Can't wait for LU to go live <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Ryoushi]

<p>Thanks developers now I can wear that high stat armor without looking like a bag of skittles</p>

[womperobu]

<p>EDIT: Nevermind. Had a whole schpeel going but totally forgot this is going live anyway this Wednesday.</p>

[Jesdyr]

<cite>womperobu wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>EDIT: Nevermind. Had a whole schpeel going but totally forgot this is going live anyway this Wednesday.</p></blockquote>I was going to reply to the other post .. but you made you edit before I finished reading and this is what I get on the quote! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Anyway .. yah I was happy with the other rules. I am happy with these rules even if they are unfair. I would be much much happier to have some nice looking items added to the game but that is far off at best. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[womperobu]

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>womperobu wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>EDIT: Nevermind. Had a whole schpeel going but totally forgot this is going live anyway this Wednesday.</p></blockquote>I was going to reply to the other post .. but you made you edit before I finished reading and this is what I get on the quote! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />Anyway .. yah I was happy with the other rules. I am happy with these rules even if they are unfair. I would be much much happier to have some nice looking items added to the game but that is far off at best. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>I'm assuming you are saying that because you are a mage? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I think the current rule is okay (probably between okay and meh) but I'm a little bothered that plate wearers can show off cloth. Not unless they redo the character textures and make them look right (how does someone go from bulky plate to skinny cloth wearing both <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Scouts who can wear chain are probably happy to be able to show off leather and chain and to me that's cool. </p>

[Choombatta]

<p>None of the Plate armor I have ever worn in game is "bulky".</p><p> All of it has been form-fitting that seems to hug my character's body, somehow like Spandex Plate armor.</p><p> Side-effect of the way armor skins are modeled.</p>

[Jesdyr]

<cite>womperobu wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>I'm assuming you are saying that because you are a mage? </p></blockquote>My main is a Coercer .. who should get the best looking outfits in the game .. the kind that mesmerize everyone when I enter a zone .. or something..

[womperobu]

<cite>Choombatta wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>None of the Plate armor I have ever worn in game is "bulky".</p><p> All of it has been form-fitting that seems to hug my character's body, somehow like Spandex Plate armor.</p><p> Side-effect of the way armor skins are modeled.</p></blockquote>What I was getting at were the extra pieces on top of the skin model of plate (for example certain plate shoulders have spaulders, gauntlets are not form fitting, certain plate greaves have plates that hang on the side, etc).

[Wilde_Night]

Last time one of my plate tanks wore a robe for show in town, her plate gauntlets and plate boots were very visible.  I, personally, do not plan on wearing a robe as any of my tanks as main fluff, but I thought the plate gauntlets sticking out over the robe sleeves was kind of neat.

[Sapphirius]

<p>Gauntlets are very much visible over robes. The boots depend on what pants you're wearing. If you have plate leggings, they show. If you have vanguard greaves, it looks like you're barefoot. (Older pic with newbie armor, but you get the idea.)</p><p><img src="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c348/Sapphirius/Random%20Screenshots/EQ2_000034.jpg" alt="" width="477" height="493" border="0" /></p><p>Only one of my non-cloth wearing alts will be wearing cloth, and that is because his RP is that he hails from a long line of monks but chose to walk a different path. In his RP, he wears a yukata <i>over</i> his plate armor, and it is indeed skin-tight spandex-like plate. He still wears that same white robe where ever he goes.</p>

[Shackleton1]

<p>Thanks a lot for the appearance slots! Works very nicely <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></p><p>But put me in the camp of "less restrictions on plate" <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> I was really looking forward to finally wearing some shoulders that I liked (specifically vanguard, is just a personal preference thing but I think every other type of arm slot looks a bit lame on my big strong kerra) and have been a bit disappointed by my options.</p><p>I'm presently working on Bloodlines but I know that it won't match, and I have a vague feeling that I might be screwed because I'm on the evil line of bloodlines quests.</p><p>I don't think there's a rational argument against making plate graphics at least a little more available. Since they are already available (in a sub par form), that taboo has already been broken, and anyway has been broken since heavier classes can wear cloth (and good for them! I heartily endorse this added freedom).</p><p>For the record, I'm a chain wearer, not a mage, and I have no problem with mages wearing plate if they want to. In fact, restricting them seems rather cruel to me. The picture in the post immediately above is good justification for this - he could just as easily be a mage wearing plate gauntlets as a fighter wearing a robe... and I have a feeling that one of the mage class hats is pretty helmet like. Its certainly as good an argument as putting a robe over your armour.</p>

[Jesdyr]

16 pages and nothing about making things fair from a red name ?ok 17 with this post

[NiteWolfe]

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>16 pages and nothing about making things fair from a red name ?ok 17 with this post</blockquote> Nothing to make fair IMO. Every class can wear what they can equip....THE WAY ITS ALWAYS BEEN!!!

[Sapphirius]

<cite>NiteWolfe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>16 pages and nothing about making things fair from a red name ?ok 17 with this post</blockquote> Nothing to make fair IMO. Every class can wear what they can equip....THE WAY ITS ALWAYS BEEN!!!</blockquote><p>TBH, I'm sick and tired of the whole "fair" schtick, and she's preaching this crusade in more than just this forum.</p><p>I would love for all restrictions to be removed as well, but that hasn't happened. I'm willing to bet platinum that there's a perfectly understandable reason as to why. Rather than continuing to butt my head against a wall, I've turned my focus to other endeavors... like increasing the variety of non-robe cloth appearances.</p>

[Jesdyr]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>TBH, I'm sick and tired of the whole "fair" schtick, and she's preaching this crusade in more than just this forum.</p></blockquote>I was sick of it in the other thread too .. I got attacked for it there so now I joined the good side! Go Go GOOD GUYS !Really all it would take for me to stop is for a Dev to actually tell us why it was acceptable to put the Original design back in by the request that people should be able to wear what they want. This change does not let everyone wear what they want however it did address the Specific complaints of the vocal people who are able to wear what they wanted. I wonder if they had wanted to wear something heavier than their class, would they have stopped complaining ?

[Sapphirius]

<p>I come with a warning label: "Doesn't play well with others." This is especially true when I know you're trying to bait both myself and others so that you can feel all-knowing and powerful.</p>

[Jesdyr]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I come with a warning label: "Doesn't play well with others." This is especially true when I know you're trying to bait both myself and others so that you can feel all-knowing and powerful.</p></blockquote>It truly is not baiting to feel all-knowing and powerful. Sometimes I do things just because I can and this is one of those. What I originally wanted was reverted. Now since I lost that battle, I want to see people stand by what they said and try to get things made right. Forgive me if I throw things that were said back into people's faces, but if the tactics were good enough before, surely they are good enough now? I freely admitted I am using over sensationalized statements to support arguments just because I can. Try to actually think about the reason for what I am saying.Does not play well with others? .. I am often labeled that way .. guess it shows sometimes <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Sapphirius]

The problem being that you are <i>not</i> throwing things back at us that we said. Instead, you are just making yourself look petty and bitter and childish... Something that you yourself accused us of being, or do you not remember called us "spoiled children" in the other thread?

[Jesdyr]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote> "spoiled children" in the other thread?</blockquote>Yup and the "Got what I wanted and now I am leaving" is exactly what I would expect. I am using the same arguments and the same tactics .. I reply to everything I can to pad the post count of the threads (thanks for helping). I dismiss anything that does not fit my point of view. Here are the things said in the <span style="color: #cc0000;">first 13 pages </span>of that thread ... They all claim to want MORE than what we got .. but it seems MOST of these people are happy now because they got what they personally wanted (including you Sapphirius). <b><span style="color: #cc0000;">Supporting arguments to remove restrictions - </span></b>"<span class="postbody">Amen to this! If a mage wants plate armor in their "fluff" slots, then I say let them have at it! As long as the fluff slots aren't affecting actual mitigation or stats, then I don't really see a problem with this.""</span><span class="postbody">If we have restrictions placed on this to <i>only</i> wear what we can currently wear, where's the fun in that?""</span><span class="postbody">I'm way more excited about the fluff armour slots than the next expansion even - but yeah, this change completely killed any excitement I had. Just let us wear anything we want in the fluff armour slots!""</span>Some may argue about realism..... well in RL people wear camoflage, disguises, dress in drag, etc.  Why couldn't my druid, say, decide to try on somone's plate armor just for kicks?  <span class="postbody"><p>The items in the appearance slots don't affect stats and therefore won't affect gameplay.  This is a purely cosmetic issue.  The restrictions make no sense at all. "</p>"</span><span class="postbody">Let people wear whatever they own.  Achiever players (of which I am one) should not object to that.  If you have to earn/buy an item, it's yours and should be able to be in your appearance slot.""</span><span class="postbody">It's a"fluff" spot, let it simply be that.  Theres no reason to have it at all if its so heavily restricted.  If you have to do this, At LEAST let users have a shift to one armor scale below or above, so no cloth/plate mixing.  Cloth-to-leather.  Leather-to cloth/chain.  Chain to leather/plate. Plate-to chain.  Maybe at least let it shift downward completely... SOMETHING for crying out loud.""</span><span class="postbody">This restriction is pointless. Mages will still be able to wear the formal plate status rewards and tanks can still wear the formal robes/clothing.""</span><span class="postbody"><span>The entire concept of branding is ridiculously artificial. <span> </span>Your never restricted to what you have on in real life and the idea that you should be forced to wear one of 2 of 3 armour designs for your entire EQ2 career is way to limiting.<span>  </span>There is already way to little differentiation in this game without having to enforce these class based stereotypes. <span>""</span></span></span><span class="postbody">Boooo  Hisssss, SoE!!!!!    Let anyone wear what they want in those slots.  That should be the whole point of it, getting our characters to look like we imagine them. ""</span><span class="postbody">Gah, please let us be able to wear what we want, some of the cloth and leather looks much much better than chain... I'm going to reemphasize as others said.. this is FUN FLUFF, please reconsider =(""</span><span class="postbody">And let's face it, appearance is one of the more boring parts of this game. There's very little variation in armor appearance, and with the headpiece showing almost all the variation in a character's appearance is hidden under the armor. The only way to tell two characters of the same class apart is by height and general build, or by the name that floats over their head. Allowing unrestricted appearance items will at least provide a lot more variety in character looks. Yeah you'll have the usual silly gits, but they're not going to actually bother anyone else's play and I figure I can just ignore what they look like. It's not like they'll be worse than fabled clown suits.""</span><span class="postbody">Its a Roleplay / fantasy game - NO restrictions on the fluff slots please.  ""</span><span class="postbody">I agree...it's FLUFF. Why have restrictions on it at all?""</span><span class="postbody">Honestly, Sony, <b>are you TRYING to force people like me to cancel?</b> Because, seriously, it's very much beginning to look like it.""</span><span class="postbody">Personally I'm against the idea of restrictions as I feel people should be able to look however they want. I remember the joy I felt when I finally got my necro to look just the way I thought it should and my pride and enjoyment of playing him went up leaps and bounds. Anyone who says their character apperence doesn't matter to them is lying. These characters are extensions of our personality and you care as much about about how they look as you do your own rl personal apperence. They are your representivies in the world of Norath. The DEVs as players know this and is why this feature was put into place. But now they are being sidetracked by people who wish everyone to fit <b>their </b>view of what everything should look like.""</span><span class="postbody">Don't limit players creative options.  It's bad... it detracts from the game and in the end... only makes narrow minded people happy.""</span><span class="postbody">Instead of making it to where people can't equip armor that's lighter than what they already have on, why not make it to where people can equip any kind of armor in their extra slots.  That way if mages want to look like mage-knights, they can go for it.""</span><span class="postbody">The problem is we have a few whinners that complain about everything and sometimes their shouting is seen as a majority consensus and [I cannot control my vocabulary] changes like this make it into the update notes. But when there is this much broad based outrage over it then the problem will get corrected. ""</span>I'm sick of that stupid word being used to justify every idiotic thing in this game, especially when it doesn't even make any sense.  This is a FANTASY MMO.  People want to play dashing Swashbucklers, priestly clerics, gi wearing monks.  THAT'S IMMERSION!!  That's what is being denied.  True immersion, the ability to fit your concept of the character and still handle the challenges of the game.<p>It's being denied, because a few people can't get out of their EQ1 mindset that tanks wear plate, rogues wear chain, etc. no matter how NON-IMMERSIVE that really is."</p><span class="postbody">"</span><span class="postbody"><span style="color: #ffff00;">Just let us wear what we want, and look how we want to look. geez.<span style="color: #000000;">""</span></span></span><span class="postbody">I really hope the devs don't ignore more than 11 pages (including other threads) of outrage...heh.""</span><span class="postbody">The only thing this change is going to really do for his immersion is force him to go from a white yukata to a grey-blue one because, as someone already pointed out, it won't stop him from wearing status clothes over his plate. How is this fair to Cocytus though? All he wants is his pirate boots, which are also cloth."  <span style="color: #cc0000;">Oh you used the Fair thing!<span style="color: #000000;">"</span></span></span><span class="postbody">It also doesn't change the fact that my zerker can <i>still</i> wear a robe over his armor by buying the status robe, so in the end, it's not going to break his immersion at all. He'll just be in a different color. What's this doing for the others though? The assassin who wanted his black and red leather & hood? He can't wear it now. How about Cocytus with his pirate boots that are cloth?""</span><span class="postbody">Serious question: for all you people saying you don't want see tanks tanking in Frostfell outfits, etc. ... is it possible that some of you don't understand the term "fluff armor"??? Because, honestly, I can't really see any other rational reason for you to support this change, other than that you just don't understand what it's about.""</span><span class="postbody">Add me to the list of folks disappointed in this change. And for that matter, to the list of folks who feel that armor type should not be restricted for fluff slots. Let casters wear plate--a great many of the mob and NPC casters in the game already do.""</span><span class="postbody">IOW, the argument from shaunfletcher & others holds NO water at all, given that we can buy outfits from the city merchants that will do precisely what you're complaining about. Shaun, & others: if you wish your arguments on this subject to be taken seriously, then you need to oppose the fluff armor slots *entirely*, because if you don't, you're being quite hypocritical."</span><span class="postbody">"</span><span class="postbody">I'm from AB, and most absolutely definitely a roleplayer. I am against this nerf. In fact, I am FOR unrestricting the slots entirely to things that you own, regardless of class."</span><span class="postbody"></span><span class="postbody">"</span><span class="postbody">Would love to see a caster in armor :>"</span><span class="postbody">** I love this from page 9 **</span><span class="postbody">"I think a lot of people have, up to the last couple of days, been telling a lot of fibs about what they wanted. For months its been "I just want to choose some plate that I like the look of, not be forced to wear mismatched stuff" etc etc. Along with predictions that this wont result in everyone tanking in dresses etc."</span><span class="postbody"></span><span class="postbody"></span><span class="postbody"></span><span class="postbody"></span><span class="postbody"></span><span class="postbody"></span><span class="postbody"></span><span class="postbody"></span><span class="postbody"><span><span></span></span></span><span class="postbody"></span><span class="postbody"></span><span class="postbody"></span>

[Sapphirius]

And your point would be?

[Jesdyr]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote>And your point would be?</blockquote>Put the heavier than restrictions back in or remove the current ones. Clearly the injustice has not been solved. The restrictions made more sense than what we have.