Pros/Cons of a Coercer?

[Revark]

<p>So, I see that Coercer is one of the least played classes. Why is that.</p><p> 1. Are they a pet class? (control npc I think)</p><p>2. Are they low in population because they are that crappy.</p><p>3. Do they have any utility.</p><p>4. Coercer vs Illusionist.</p>

[Stuge]

<cite>Revark wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So, I see that Coercer is one of the least played classes. Why is that.</p><p> 1. Are they a pet class? (control npc I think)</p><p>2. Are they low in population because they are that crappy.</p><p>3. Do they have any utility.</p><p>4. Coercer vs Illusionist.</p></blockquote><span style="font-family: courier new,courier;">1.  Not technically, no.  Yes they can make temporary pets of sorts by charming mobs.  There are pros and cons to doing this.  Under the right circumstances a charmed mob can be very powerful, however the charm's duration and periodic chance of being resisted/"breaking" make it somewhat unreliable.  A couple of inconvenient spell resists and you'll find your pet turning on you at very bad times.  Practice in the strategy surrounding the use of charmed mobs though can be very rewarding and if performed effectively it's very strong.2.  No.  They are generally low in population because they are one of the more difficult classes to play to it's full potential.  New coercers die.  A <b>lot</b>.  Getting your strategies and timings down.  Managing resists and controlling tough situation.  Knowing when to do what you do in specific group situations.  Playing a coercer effectively in both groups and in solo play is a very participative process, probably more so than any other class.  There is no, "just sitting back".  Because of this there are a lot of bad coercer <i>players</i>.  But when you have a skilled person push past the frustrations of learning the class, they can actually be one of the stronger classes in the game.3.  Amnesia, possession, charm, mezz, encounter mezz, power drains, power regen, magic resists, mana flows, direct stuns, reactive stuns, dazes...yeah.  Yeah they do.4.  Illusionists smell like shame.</span>

[Revark]

<p>Ok, what percent of the time are you fighting alongside a charmed NPC?</p><p>  This class sounds alot like a "Beastmaster" from FFXI..... although with more utility.</p><p> What are they main differences between an Illusionist and a Coercer?</p>

[Stuge]

<cite>Revark wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok, what percent of the time are you fighting alongside a charmed NPC?</p><p>  This class sounds alot like a "Beastmaster" from FFXI..... although with more utility.</p><p> What are they main differences between an Illusionist and a Coercer?</p></blockquote><span style="font-family: courier new,courier;">It really depends on the competency of the player and how they like to play.  Solo I'd say that one would probably find themselves utilizing a charmed mob 70% or so of the time.  Coercers can solo without a pet and it is a lot less risky to do so, but those who take on the added risk can pull off some crazy stuff.  In group situations it depends on both the coercer and the rest of the group.  Because of their rarity and a lack of understanding of them amongst other players, some groups do not allow coercers to charm while grouping.  They may have had a bad experience with a poor coercer who couldn't control their pet well.  However if you find a group that is comfortable with the class a good coercer that is skilled in charm-control can bring a lot to the table.  Such a group is rare treasure though.  I'd say you'll only charm as a primary strategy in groups <i>maybe</i> 10% of the time.  Most likely less.As for illusionist...to be completely honest I've never played an illusionist.  As such it would be irresponsible of me to comment on them.  Hopefully an illusionist player can jump in and provide some insight on this for you.</span>

[Lord Montague]

<p>I'll agree with Stugein in that yes and no as far as being a pet class.  I look at my charm as a soloing tool and something to pull out in an emergency situation (by and large, not to be used for group situations most of the time since it uses up so much concentration that could be better spent on other buffs).  We can cast buffs on melee classes to make them hit harder, or aggro reducers for those classes that draw attention to themselves too easily, and don't forget the hate buff for the tank!  These can make life so much easier.</p><p>Speaking from personal experience, yeah it is very hard starting out and especially if it is your first character and you don't have any way to get yourself twinked out.  My first attempt at coercer failed because I could not afford at the time to get good quality spells and equipment, nor was my knowledge of the game as solid as it is now.  Even then it's been harsh at times.</p><p>I think the main reason people have a hard time with coercer is in gauging the usefullness of the class - or trying to make it into something it is not.  Most people like to reduce things down to the lowest common denominator and only focus on one aspect of the game, which is damage.  That is because it is easy to measure and quantify, so people think it makes for a good metric.  This is not true for a class that was not really designed to deal damage in the first place.  There is no direct way to parse out how much damage was prevented as a result of the effective timing and usage of stuns and mezzes, so that leaves the workings of the coercer very subtle and to the uneducated very much underappreciated.</p><p>I know only a little of illusionists - they tend to have a different set of buffs and their damage tends to be higher just because of how their mechanics work (this may or may not change in the future, but I tend to not think much on it).  Illusionist buffs haste whereas a coercer buffs melee DPS (or to put another way, the illusionist will make someone autoattack faster where as the coercer will make that autoattack hit harder - some classes benefit more from one vs. the other).  Coercers get some better stuns, I've been told illusionists have better mezzes but I've not observed any notable difference having raided side-by-side with one.</p>

[Khurghan]

<cite>Revark wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So, I see that Coercer is one of the least played classes. Why is that.</p><p> 1. Are they a pet class? (control npc I think)</p><p>2. Are they low in population because they are that crappy.</p><p>3. Do they have any utility.</p><p>4. Coercer vs Illusionist.</p></blockquote>#2

[Jesdyr]

I mostly agree with what has been said.However not using charm solo is really hurting you. Coercer damage is mostly done with either a pet or reactive spells that require someone/something to get hit by the mob. Personally I would rather a charmed mob take the hits for me. The "best" overall tactic is to charm a mage MOB and set it to ranged. With a master I charm these mobs do much more damage than you do. All you really need to do is debuff and lock down (root/stun/stifle/mez) ... the real important part is that master I charm. It was fairly common to find on the broker, but it seems more people are rolling coercers lately and it can be hard to get now. For groups, anything over 3 I almost never use charm. It adds to much confusion and is normally not needed. At this point the Con is best used for buffs anyway.

[dhvyse000]

<cite>Revark wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So, I see that Coercer is one of the least played classes. Why is that.</p><p> 1. Are they a pet class? (control npc I think)</p><p>2. Are they low in population because they are that crappy.</p><p>3. Do they have any utility.</p><p>4. Coercer vs Illusionist.</p></blockquote>I've been playing a coercer for 56 levels so I'll answer what I can.1. No/Yes - We do have a powerful charm that costs 3 concentration and it does make a very useful pet.  It will break at random but with your crown control this is rarely a problem.  For solo I will sometimes use a pet, and in groups it's better to spend the concentration on buffing your group.2. If they are low in pop, I have no idea why.  They can solo pretty decent, and are powerhouses in groups.  They prevent damage with long duration stuns, aoe stun, and of course our mezmerize spells.  We also up the DPS of the melee members in our group, and have powerful power regeneration which in turn makes the healers/magic dps in your group more powerful.  A coercer is a very good substitute to a second healer, as the damage prevented is more then enough to help the main healer.  3. Utility is what we're all about.  A good root, long duration stuns and mez.   We also have indirect dps which can do alot of damage.4.  I've never played an Illusionist, but the coercer seems to lean more towards dps while the illusionist has more utility and defence.  The main difference is they get a Doppleganger pet(copy of themsevles) and we get the powerful charm.Hope this helps.

[modernlife]

<p>Solo I use charm all the time whereas in a group I would buff and crowd control.</p><p>You don't see a lot of the power of this class until later than other classes. Up to about 25 you going to die a hell of a lot. From then, with good AA choices and some spell upgrades, you can wipe through mobs extremely quick. You'll still die a lot but I've also done things solo that I would never have a chance with using another class. E.g. at level 56 I soloed the warg mount quests in Loping Plains. Or if you have a quest  to gather certain items that are guarded by (single) heroics ^^^ you can charm one mob and use it against another. When your pet dies just charm the other and keep doing this until you're clear to get all the updates you need.</p><p> A very complex class to play and a lot or risk but it's a hell of a lot of fun and the reward when you do pull something insane off is great <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Effie]

<p>I think they are the least played class because they actually take a bit of skill to play effectively.</p><p>A good coercer embraces death and has gigantic cojones.</p>

[Eddes]

I played a Coecer only to a low lvl and had a blast!  I can only imagine the potention when they get to a higher lvl.  Guild mate plays an Illusionist and she is a def perk to the group and doesnt seem to have too much trouble soloing either to a certain extent.  Its a toss up.  I say try them out for yourself.  Everyone likes something different <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[azekah]

heh...after reading this thread I really want to go pull out my 43 coercer again...its been months since I've played him...Been way too into my necro as of late <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Rijacki]

I've recently been leveling a coercer through mostly soloing. She's now 33. Up until 30, I didn't spend any money on spell upgrades (yes, I was using App I on everything) and was using mostly only quest rewards for armor with a few drop items (nearly everything tradable goes to my transmuter to use for incresing skill) and a scattering of Handcrafted items to fill. I'm not afraid to die, but I have found charm killing to be rather effective... with the right pet. At 30, I started buying upgrades and need to start grouping some to learn that dynamic. I am a seasoned player with a raid dirge (dps group spec'ed) and a 70 wizard. In my opinion, coercer is not good for a first character or for someone who thinks dying is a bad thing or gets frustrated to easily. It can be a very powerful class, but relies a lot more on player skill and doesn't have an 'easy button'. I took on coercer for the challenge and because our guild has started swimming in raid level dirges, so I wanted to broaden the options.

[tass]

their the least played class cause charming a mob is a pain. I rolled 1 up to 25, because I figured you can have any pet you want, it would be awesome. So lv 1-12 was hell. But since people said it got better I stuck with it. I figured maybe the reason why pets were beating the hell outa me is because I had app4. So I got adept 3 in all the spells (if I could of found master 1 I would of bought it) I listened to other coercers, both saying just drop it now it isnt worth the aggravation, and the over hyped ITS THE BEST CLASS IN DA WORLD!!!  So I went on using all the techniques I could think of trying like hell to manage the pets, and no matter what, it was always unreliable at best. Maybe it got better at 26, to me I didn't give a dam lol. To anyone crazy enough to deal with that [Removed for Content] has the patience of a god.

[thebunny]

<cite>Revark wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So, I see that Coercer is one of the least played classes. Why is that.</p><p> 1. Are they a pet class? (control npc I think)</p><p>2. Are they low in population because they are that crappy.</p><p>3. Do they have any utility.</p><p>4. Coercer vs Illusionist.</p></blockquote><p>1.  Eh kind of, depends on how you define pet class.  Coercers charm other mobs to use as pets, but it only lasts for a limited time and has a chance of breaking all throughout the duration.  Of course this gives them the potential to have a lot of power (depending on the mob that is charmed), but also presents a danger level.  When your pet breaks it will turn on you, requiring you to act quickly to get it back.  When your pet dies, you can't just root/mez and recast another pet like the other pet classes - you have to go recharm something else, which can be quite inconvenient.</p><p>2.  Not at all.  In fact, depending on the pet you charm, Coercers can solo pretty much any heroic mob in the game (though it may take some time...).  The only class that rivals them in soloability is Illusionist.  I think the reason Coercers are so few and far between is because it requires a lot of thought and skill to play one successfully, and even then it can be extremely dangerous (of the 12 classes I've played past level 20 Coercer is by far the most dangerous).  Early on you will die a LOT as you're learning the class (I think my KvD at level 20 was around 10), and that kind of deters people from giving it a chance.  Plus I think it takes a different kind of person to truly understand and appreciate the role of a Coercer.  A lot of people are simply looking for max DPS, but Coercer brings so much more to the table than just their personal DPS.</p><p>3.  Oh yeah, bigtime.  Arguably the best power regen of any class in the game.  Tons of crowd control options (root, stun, stifle, daze, mez, and even charm).  Hate inc and transfer for the MT.  Melee DPS buffs.  Coercive Healing/Thoughtsnap/Manaward.  Coercers are all about utility. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>4.  From a soloability standpoint, not much.  Illusionists are a bit safer because of the charm aspect - they don't have to worry about their pet turning on them, and if their pet dies they can just mez and recast the pet.  Coercers on the other hand can tackle a tad more difficult content but it depends greatly on the pet they have.  For groups/raids, both Illusionists and Coercers provide awesome power regen and crowd control, as well as increasing the DPS of others (Coercers buff melee DPS, Illusionists buff mage DPS but also have a buff for meleers as well (two depending on AAs)).  I believe Illusionists get an extra mez to make up for the lack of charm.  Illusionist personal DPS is usually greater than Coercer personal DPS, and definitely more consistent since Coercers rely on the tank being hit for a large portion of their DPS.  Illusionists are a lot more common nowadays than Coercers - at least on my server Illusionists have become somewhat the FotM.</p><p>After leveling a Coercer to 70, I can honestly say it can be one of the most frustrating classes to play but also one of the most fun classes to play.  In order to be a successful Coercer, you really have to know and understand your class.  But if you take the time to learn how to be proficient in the class, it truly is amazing some of the stuff you can pull off.</p>

[Aurumn]

<p>I rolled coercers in the past and always loved them, but rerolled them when I got the alt-itis and wanted to try out something new. When I decided to sacrifice my troub to alt-itis I sat down and systematically rolled up each class I had any remote interest in and played them up to at least 15. After much tinkering my faves were the Echanters. I ended up with a Coercer who is now level 22. Here's how I see it;</p><p> 1. Are they a pet class? (control npc I think)</p><p><span style="color: #0000ff;">I wouldn't characterize it as such now that I've tried to solo more to learn my spells. This Coercer is truly a crowd control class. The option of a pet is nice, but has a price both in hogging 3 conc slots and in the risk of a pet breaking mezz and toasting you at a bad time. The novelty of customizing a temporary pet to the task at hand is pretty fun though. As others have stated the critical component to this is keeping the charm spell upgraded. I saw a HUGE jump in reliability just by keeping it at Adept level. I have a sage alt so and Adept III is easy to get. You'll learn pretty quickly that certain mobs resist more than others and you have to tailor your pet choice to the situation at hand.</span></p><p>2. Are they low in population because they are that crappy.</p><p><span style="color: #0033ff;">Coercers are rather complicated. They're not pure DPS and if you don't understand the properties of the CC spells you'll end up shooting yourself in the foot while spamming buttons. The Illys have it easier in that their pet is by default a carbon copy of themself and won't randomly turn on them, but then they are limited to that one pet. It's a tradeoff, but if you want one less complication to juggle it's a good way to go. Most folks I've chatted with shelve the coercers because they're complicated, frustrating or they find it hard to solo (what with the frequent deaths). </span></p><p>3. Do they have any utility.</p><p><span style="color: #0033ff;">They're absolutely brimming with it! Coercers can essentially take adds out of play if they are alert. Stifling mages, stunning entire encounters, debuffs, power transfer, blink, DPS boosts all make a modest group a blast. When soloing I often leave 3 con slots open so I can charm a group right out of an encounter if I get jumped. I absolutely love turning a heroic on his companions. It's saved my tail more than once. </span></p><p>4. Coercer vs Illusionist.</p><p><span style="color: #0033ff;">I played an Illy up to level 15 or 16 I believe. The spells were pretty comparable as far as what I saw at that level. My final decision was made because I wanted the pet flexibility. Working with a mage pet was fun, but my playstyle at the time really needed to at least have the option of a tank pet when I wasn't soloing. Now that I have the hang of things better I'd probably be fine with the illy, but I love my coercer. I love to micromanage and learn all the ins and outs of a system and find little tweaks to change things up on a whim. Coercers allow me lots of options for this, plus the novelty of grabbing (just about) any mob I want and having them take care of the dirty work. I use them to pull, sacrifice them to distract a mob while I haul-tail to safety, have them tank when needed, or simply use em to even the odds or for giggle factor. Another novel thing about Coercers is I hardly ever seem to run low on power, even when spamming like mad. </span></p><p>Overall I think that if you haven't given either of the enchanters a try you really should. Try em both if you can and see what fits your personality. That said, if you want an easy pet class... DON'T roll a coercer. They are a bit challenging to say the least, but there's more of a sense of accomplishment to surviving a tough encounter than just root-n-nuke. </p>

[Flipmode]

<p>After reading a bunch of these posts, All I have to say is <I can't control my langauge>.  </p><p> Coercers are the least played class because at 70, there is hardly room for all that "utility" on raids.  Sure we can stun, stifle and daze epics.  What did that 2 seconds buy you?  Squat.  Now that those long [I cannot control my vocabulary] immunity timers are on...what you gonna do with that "utility"?  Coercers are probably the most nerfed class in this game.  Thats another reason there are few left.  We do fine solo and help in groups, but only 2 zones actually need crowd control.  We get screwed again SoE's game mechanics.</p><p>Coercers have the most stuns in the game.  Yet sony in their wisdom saw fit to give them reactive based damage.  Thats REAL smart.  Not only that, your reactives wont even go off at times and you see the templars reactive flying off.  On top of that, well geared tanks with good healers hardly ever get hit, again resulting in you doing nothing.</p><p>Now lets talk about charm.  Since I cant call the Dev out by name or the forum [Removed for Content] will ban me, lets just say its very idiotic to have a double penalty on charm.  Not only do mobs scale down to the hitpoints of a ^ mob, they get a chance to break every 30 seconds.  So unless you are in bonemire where a pet can actually DPS, you are left with a pet that doesnt do much damage and cant take a hit.  Gratz to the dev who shall not be named on that.  /sarcasm</p><p>By comparison, my Illusionist is miles better off than my coercer, but only because he got better EoF AAs.  If a class is least played, their is a reason.  And being too hard isnt one of those reasons.  Its not THAT challenging to master a coercer.  You have to pay attention sure, but that just goes to show you how easy EQ2 has become.  The real challenge to playing a coercer is not deleting him after every live update when you see what nerfs are in store for you.</p>

[Flipmode]

Forgot to add, when you can totally raid without a class and not miss them, something is wrong.  Your raid is better served by adding a 2nd illusionist, troub, or dirge than having a coercer atm.  All add the same amount of buffs and increase their respective grps dps by more than the coercer.  Also the bards are on par with the coercer dps wise.  The illusionist will double or tripple their dps.

[Jesdyr]

<cite>thebunny wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite> But if you take the time to learn how to be proficient in the class, it truly is amazing some of the stuff you can pull off.</blockquote>That is really it right there. We have two things that if used creatively let us do some really interesting things. Charm and possession can be very fun and can make clearing a path to something very easy <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Yah .. Solo you will die a lot early on but, death means so little that it really doesn't matter. How many times does a full raid wipe when learning an encounter? It is the same thing only a little more extreme at times. There are countless mobs in the game that took me a while to figure out how to solo them (die over and over and over). I use to like killing even con ^^^ named solo. Some were really really hard and others died without much of a fight at all. The thing I was able to do it when most classes would not stand a chance. The class is not for everyone. If you dont take pleasure in having to stay on your toes and make quick decisions, then this class is most likely a bad choice for you.

[Saarum]

charm, charm, charm...they suck coz they are designed for crowd control but a bunch of classes depend on AE damage for their DPS and AGRO. So in 8 out 10 groups they cant exercise their principle function as their sexuh mezzes get thumped inconsequentially by waves upon waves of AE hurting in battles that last 3-4 miliseconds..

[Mistletoes]

Pro: I can do things on my coercer that you would otherwise consider impossible on any other character. Accomplishing something like that is fun. Pro: Nearly every group (and sometimes raid) you join, when things start to turn south, are amazed at how well things somehow turned out. Pro: There is a ton of variety to the class. Solo playstyle can vary drastically from area to area. Group playstyle can vary even more. You get to evaluate your situation and come up with the perfect solution in almost every scenario. Con: For most people, anyway... Most people don't have the patience and skill required, or even the desire to figure out how to do those impossible things. Con: When you lag, or mis-click, or just screw up in general, you have a pretty high likelihood of getting killed. Con: Over time, somehow, mobs are figuring us out, and becoming more and more immune to our stuns, roots, stifles, mezzes, charms, and possessions. This is one of the biggest letdowns. I hate trying to charm a good mob that I charmed before, only to find out that the latest patch really was aimed at me after all (even though there was no mention of it). My coercer is fun for me. It just has so much depth to it. But I understand that others may not see it in the same light.

[Norrsken]

<cite>Saarum wrote:</cite><blockquote>charm, charm, charm...they suck coz they are designed for crowd control but a bunch of classes depend on AE damage for their DPS and AGRO. So in 8 out 10 groups they cant exercise their principle function as their sexuh mezzes get thumped inconsequentially by waves upon waves of AE hurting in battles that last 3-4 miliseconds..</blockquote>Well, chanters shouldnt be mezzing the encounter you are at work with tearing down, nor the controlled mobs. they should be locking down romers and adds... whent heys tart mezzing stuff in encounters they just step on everyone elses toes. CC in this game isnt really needed until the [Removed for Content] hits the proverbial fan. But when it does, nothing can measure up to a good chanter.

[Trepan]

<cite>Effie wrote:</cite><blockquote>A good coercer embraces death and has gigantic cojones.</blockquote>I need to put that in my sig 8-)Coercers are a blast with the right mind set.  If "getting on the parse" is a goal, re-roll another class.  I wouldn't classify us as a Pet Class.  We are... persuasive when it comes to convincing mobs to work for us.  They always wise up, though.  Mutiny!Grouping is rough for a coercer who solos.  Not being able to mez the encounter can be frustrating until you get the hang of things and then you're casting non stop keeping things stunned or stifled or tapped for power or redistributing or throwing your own version of Intercede (Mind Wipe) to reset a badly agro'd mob, refreshing your reactives, debuffing, dispelling, curing arcane debuffs, keeping an eye out for adds, soothing potential adds so they keep on walkin'.If you get a group where you get to pull, it can be a hoot to constantly keep 2 or 3 mobs on deck ready for the tank to taunt and wake. Tough to play, frustrating at times, [Removed for Content] class should get a mender discount, but its been a fun ride for me.

[Revark]

<p>Got a Coercer to level 10. It plays ALOT like FFXI beastmaster class. Very strong, sometimes frustrating. So far so good though.</p><p> I will let you know how it goes.</p>

[nia]

            What I find odd is that alot of people say that Coercer's are one of the best soloing classes in the game but I never see one solo....I solo alot and go all over yet I never see a coercer.....I play a Fury as my main and tried using the animist line to charm animals.....If charming NPCs is as rough as charming animals was I have no interest in being a coercer.....While the time can be as long as 30 minutes before charm breaks I found that well over 50 percent of my charms broke in 10 minutes or less...This would making playing them a major pain in the [Removed for Content].....There are just too many situations where you're gonna die if that charm breaks... I eventually abandoned animist Fury because it was just too unreliable too often.....While a charmed pet added some nie DPS at times it also wiped the group a couple times when we normally would not have died normally....There are some players that play the class very well though and they are never short on groups or raids at 70.

[azekah]

So I did go ahead and play my 43 coercer last night...It was a blast. I soloed the whole time. I decided to go to SS to start working on the quests there. TBH, it was much easier than when I tried with my 48 zerker. I tried using a few different pets, but found, as mentioned above, that a caster pet is pretty sweet. I found a 46 Decrepit Ghoul and charmed him. He broke much less than I thought he would. I actually went about 30 mins without him breaking once. As I was fighting a mob a stupid fury came up to me. He looked at me for a few seconds then sent me a group invite!?! So now with a invite in my face my charm decides to break. No sweath, decline, start mezzing so I can recharm. Uhoh, here comes another add...he's locked down. The fury stands there still watching and decides to "help" me out by killing my ghoul....I say "Don't kill him!", but it's too late...so I had to run back and grab another ghoul. Heh, besides that it was pretty fun. I was doing solo quests, and fighting non heroics so I wasn't putting myself to a real test, but I figured I'd get a nice fit back in the saddle before going all in...With the amount of CC we have, a pet breaking is not really that much of an issue at all...

[thebunny]

<p>I soloed my Coercer exclusively from level 1 to level 67.  Would have done the last 3 levels solo but I got impatient. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Without a doubt Coercers are the best class (alongside Illusionists) when it comes to the difficulty of content that they can solo.  They don't kill things as fast as some classes, but if you want to be able to solo yellow or even orange heroics you roll an enchanter. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I think the reason you don't see many Coercers soloing is because, for one, there just aren't that many Coercers, and for another, it takes a lot of skill and patience to solo successfully on a Coercer.</p><p>As for the Fury charm animal AA, it really doesn't compare to Coercer charm.  I have it on my Fury (since I went AGI for wild regen and tortoise shell), and I literally never use it.  Most of the good mobs aren't classified as animals so they can't be charmed using the Fury charm, so the danger of charming a mob far outweighs the benefit.  And Furies don't have many tools to handle when the pet breaks or when things go bad (i.e. mez and stun).  Charming on a Coercer is infinitely more effective than charming on a Fury.</p>

[Norrsken]

<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>So I did go ahead and play my 43 coercer last night...It was a blast. I soloed the whole time. I decided to go to SS to start working on the quests there. TBH, it was much easier than when I tried with my 48 zerker. I tried using a few different pets, but found, as mentioned above, that a caster pet is pretty sweet. I found a 46 Decrepit Ghoul and charmed him. He broke much less than I thought he would. I actually went about 30 mins without him breaking once. As I was fighting a mob a stupid fury came up to me. He looked at me for a few seconds then sent me a group invite!?! So now with a invite in my face my charm decides to break. No sweath, decline, start mezzing so I can recharm. Uhoh, here comes another add...he's locked down. The fury stands there still watching and decides to "help" me out by killing my ghoul....I say "Don't kill him!", but it's too late...so I had to run back and grab another ghoul. Heh, besides that it was pretty fun. I was doing solo quests, and fighting non heroics so I wasn't putting myself to a real test, but I figured I'd get a nice fit back in the saddle before going all in...With the amount of CC we have, a pet breaking is not really that much of an issue at all...</blockquote>As you gain levels, may I suggest picking up the foci and chanellors in the caves by bay of anuk? They are quite simply the best ones around in SS. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Also, the foci comes in triple down variety, so even if they DO break, you can just leave them be while you get the lock down on the mob you are killing.

[Alcanilla]

<cite>Flipmode wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>After reading a bunch of these posts, All I have to say is <I can't control my langauge>.  </p><p> Coercers are the least played class because at 70, there is hardly room for all that "utility" on raids.  Sure we can stun, stifle and daze epics.  What did that 2 seconds buy you?  Squat.  Now that those long [I cannot control my vocabulary] immunity timers are on...what you gonna do with that "utility"?  Coercers are probably the most nerfed class in this game.  Thats another reason there are few left.  We do fine solo and help in groups, but only 2 zones actually need crowd control.  We get screwed again SoE's game mechanics.</p><p>Coercers have the most stuns in the game.  Yet sony in their wisdom saw fit to give them reactive based damage.  Thats REAL smart.  Not only that, your reactives wont even go off at times and you see the templars reactive flying off.  On top of that, well geared tanks with good healers hardly ever get hit, again resulting in you doing nothing.</p><p>Now lets talk about charm.  Since I cant call the Dev out by name or the forum [Removed for Content] will ban me, lets just say its very idiotic to have a double penalty on charm.  Not only do mobs scale down to the hitpoints of a ^ mob, they get a chance to break every 30 seconds.  So unless you are in bonemire where a pet can actually DPS, you are left with a pet that doesnt do much damage and cant take a hit.  Gratz to the dev who shall not be named on that.  /sarcasm</p><p>By comparison, my Illusionist is miles better off than my coercer, but only because he got better EoF AAs.  If a class is least played, their is a reason.  And being too hard isnt one of those reasons.  Its not THAT challenging to master a coercer.  You have to pay attention sure, but that just goes to show you how easy EQ2 has become.  The real challenge to playing a coercer is not deleting him after every live update when you see what nerfs are in store for you.</p></blockquote>Nothing to add, especially : "Its <b>not THAT challenging</b> to master a coercer.  You have to pay attention sure, but that just goes to show you how easy EQ2 has become.  The real challenge to playing a coercer is not deleting him after every live update when you see what nerfs are in store for you."

[Trepan]

<cite>azekah wrote:</cite><blockquote>The fury stands there still watching and decides to "help" me out by killing my ghoul....I say "Don't kill him!", but it's too late...so I had to run back and grab another ghoul. </blockquote>I have a hotkey set for just such a situation.  It throws our single target stun, /say "%T is currently involved in renegotiation of its employment contract.  Please don't attack it during negotiations, it cramps the Donald."  /usea Dominate."

[Jeramiah]

<p>I wanted/thought the Coercer would be like the EQ enchanter, but so far the pets are weak, my groups forbid me to mez so I dont mess up their AE the packs to death in 10 seconds spam-a-thon, and Ive gone through 320 quests (level 41 now) solo by body tanking most mobs as I click my way through my hotbards, not really careing which ones im spamming.</p><p>Yes I am exagerating a little, but the point is, this class feels nothing like the enchanter from EQ.  Seems this game is all about DPS and nothing more, so in light of that just pick the class with the most upfront DPS and you will be doing what everyone else does in a group anyways..just better/faster.</p>

[TaleraRis]

Yeah, my baby coercer is only in the 20s, but it's a definitely different experience than my 5 years as an enchanter in EQ Live. It is enjoyable, though. And at least the class has a valuable charm soloing ability without needing to reverse charm like the situation currently in Live.

[Revark]

<cite>Jeramiah wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I wanted/thought the Coercer would be like the EQ enchanter, but so far the pets are weak, my groups forbid me to mez so I dont mess up their AE the packs to death in 10 seconds spam-a-thon, and Ive gone through 320 quests (level 41 now) solo by body tanking most mobs as I click my way through my hotbards, not really careing which ones im spamming.</p><p>Yes I am exagerating a little, but the point is, this class feels nothing like the enchanter from EQ.  Seems this game is all about DPS and nothing more, so in light of that just pick the class with the most upfront DPS and you will be doing what everyone else does in a group anyways..just better/faster.</p></blockquote><p>You sound jaded. Perhaps it is time to look for a new game?! You brought nothing to my thread. Please go away. Thanks.</p><p>  So far, I am liking the coercer, level 12. Not to mention not being able to charm in a group doesnt bother me much, as I am a 90% solo player and will adapt to the group needs the other 10% of the time.</p>

[Flipmode]

<cite>Revark wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jeramiah wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I wanted/thought the Coercer would be like the EQ enchanter, but so far the pets are weak, my groups forbid me to mez so I dont mess up their AE the packs to death in 10 seconds spam-a-thon, and Ive gone through 320 quests (level 41 now) solo by body tanking most mobs as I click my way through my hotbards, not really careing which ones im spamming.</p><p>Yes I am exagerating a little, but the point is, this class feels nothing like the enchanter from EQ.  Seems this game is all about DPS and nothing more, so in light of that just pick the class with the most upfront DPS and you will be doing what everyone else does in a group anyways..just better/faster.</p></blockquote><p>You sound jaded. Perhaps it is time to look for a new game?! You brought nothing to my thread. Please go away. Thanks.</p><p>  So far, I am liking the coercer, level 12. Not to mention not being able to charm in a group doesnt bother me much, as I am a 90% solo player and will adapt to the group needs the other 10% of the time.</p></blockquote>He may be jaded but look at it from longtime coercers perspective.  I dont mean the people who rolled a coercer in the first few months after KoS and used the charm glitch to get to 70.  I mean the ones tht rolled one in the first month of the game.  Think we are jaded?  [Removed for Content] right we are.  Sony destroyed our class with every LU and even now continues to pick away at us.  You will like your coercer until about lvl 35.  Thats when you will notice everyone else's power going up and yours stay the same.  That will be when you relize EQ2 does not require any of the utility you possess.  You will see your end game role and scratch your head.  Maybe if you get that far on your toon, you may realize some of us are jaded.  But Sony made us that way.<div></div><div>All it would take is a post from the developer who is charge of enchanters to explain to us our vision and purpose and where he is taking our class.  Instead we get silence, threads deleted, and frankly treated like stepchildren.  The can sweep us under the rug and call us "the vocal forum minority" but the proof is in the pudding as the say.  Our classes numbers dont lie.  We need something done soon.  If they want suggestions all they have to do is read the forums they never go to.</div><div></div><div>/rant off</div>

[Flipmode]

Oh and the kiss of death to any thread about coercers...they move it from the public forum like this into the coercer one.  Instant thread death.  I predict one of the mods will be along shortly for that.  They cant have a thread like this stay in a forum they actually read.

[Jeramiah]

<p>Jaded?  Lol, ive been playing eq2 for hmm.. a month now? (got the "vanguard sucks, so plz play eq2 for free awhile" offer) And my level 41 coercer is my first character.</p><p>So me sounding Jaded... after only playing the game for one month as a Coercer, should tell you all you need to know lol.  Something is definetly wrong with a class when a brand new player sounds Jaded with it after three weeks.</p>

[Revark]

<cite>Jeramiah wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Jaded?  Lol, ive been playing eq2 for hmm.. a month now? (got the "vanguard sucks, so plz play eq2 for free awhile" offer) And my level 41 coercer is my first character.</p><p>So me sounding Jaded... after only playing the game for one month as a Coercer, should tell you all you need to know lol.  Something is definetly wrong with a class when a brand new player sounds Jaded with it after three weeks.</p></blockquote><p>I have never understood this mentality in ANY mmo game. Dont like the way your class is going, reroll?!! If you hate playing your coercer so much, then why are you?</p><p> *boggle* I see this in every MMO. Still dont understand it. Oh well.</p><p> Thanks for the input. If anything, the people whining about coercer just made me want to try it more just to prove it is a viable class. And from what I am reading, a coercer seems to be the "strongest" class, meaning that a well played one can do things that no other class would even attempt. That sounds like a fun class to me. Even with the downsides of the coercer.</p>

[Mistletoes]

You have the right attitude for it IMO. What people like Flipmode are saying is true though, as far as facts are concerned. SOE has consistently treated the coercer class with a very heavy hand. There are so many things I used to be able to do that I cannot do any longer. But I have always just taken it as a challenge, and adapted. I'm still amazing myself at the things I can do, even when it costs me a few deaths to figure it out. As far as comparing classes from EQ1 goes, I think most classes have a similar realization. It just seems worse for an enchanter type, due to the encounter based play of EQ2, and the fact that nearly every class has some mob damage limiting abilities that make chanters non-essential for almost all content. That said, it's not such a bad thing really. SOE was clear in the beginning when they said they didn't want to require the holy trinity for the majority of the content. Seriously, for most content, I can group with people, and need neither a healer, nor a tank. It can be done. It's just not as easy, and you have to pay attention.

[dhvyse000]

<cite>Flipmode wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>After reading a bunch of these posts, All I have to say is <I can't control my langauge>.  </p><p> Coercers are the least played class because at 70, there is hardly room for all that "utility" on raids.  Sure we can stun, stifle and daze epics.  What did that 2 seconds buy you?  Squat.  Now that those long [I cannot control my vocabulary] immunity timers are on...what you gonna do with that "utility"?  Coercers are probably the most nerfed class in this game.  Thats another reason there are few left.  We do fine solo and help in groups, but only 2 zones actually need crowd control.  We get screwed again SoE's game mechanics.</p><p>Coercers have the most stuns in the game.  Yet sony in their wisdom saw fit to give them reactive based damage.  Thats REAL smart.  Not only that, your reactives wont even go off at times and you see the templars reactive flying off.  On top of that, well geared tanks with good healers hardly ever get hit, again resulting in you doing nothing.</p><p>Now lets talk about charm.  Since I cant call the Dev out by name or the forum [Removed for Content] will ban me, lets just say its very idiotic to have a double penalty on charm.  Not only do mobs scale down to the hitpoints of a ^ mob, they get a chance to break every 30 seconds.  So unless you are in bonemire where a pet can actually DPS, you are left with a pet that doesnt do much damage and cant take a hit.  Gratz to the dev who shall not be named on that.  /sarcasm</p><p>By comparison, my Illusionist is miles better off than my coercer, but only because he got better EoF AAs.  If a class is least played, their is a reason.  And being too hard isnt one of those reasons.  Its not THAT challenging to master a coercer.  You have to pay attention sure, but that just goes to show you how easy EQ2 has become.  The real challenge to playing a coercer is not deleting him after every live update when you see what nerfs are in store for you.</p></blockquote>This is wrong.  Those 2-10 seconds bought a ton a time.  Loads of DPS.  The problem is people spread garbage like this around, and people start believing it.  When was the last time you played your coerocer buddy? 2, 3 years ago?

[dhvyse000]

<cite>Flipmode wrote:</cite><blockquote>Forgot to add, when you can totally raid without a class and not miss them, something is wrong.  Your raid is better served by adding a 2nd illusionist, troub, or dirge than having a coercer atm.  All add the same amount of buffs and increase their respective grps dps by more than the coercer.  Also the bards are on par with the coercer dps wise.  The illusionist will double or tripple their dps.</blockquote>Flipmode, you really have NO clue what you're talking about.

[Flipmode]

<cite>dhvyse000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flipmode wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>After reading a bunch of these posts, All I have to say is <I can't control my langauge>.  </p><p> Coercers are the least played class because at 70, there is hardly room for all that "utility" on raids.  Sure we can stun, stifle and daze epics.  What did that 2 seconds buy you?  Squat.  Now that those long [I cannot control my vocabulary] immunity timers are on...what you gonna do with that "utility"?  Coercers are probably the most nerfed class in this game.  Thats another reason there are few left.  We do fine solo and help in groups, but only 2 zones actually need crowd control.  We get screwed again SoE's game mechanics.</p><p>Coercers have the most stuns in the game.  Yet sony in their wisdom saw fit to give them reactive based damage.  Thats REAL smart.  Not only that, your reactives wont even go off at times and you see the templars reactive flying off.  On top of that, well geared tanks with good healers hardly ever get hit, again resulting in you doing nothing.</p><p>Now lets talk about charm.  Since I cant call the Dev out by name or the forum [Removed for Content] will ban me, lets just say its very idiotic to have a double penalty on charm.  Not only do mobs scale down to the hitpoints of a ^ mob, they get a chance to break every 30 seconds.  So unless you are in bonemire where a pet can actually DPS, you are left with a pet that doesnt do much damage and cant take a hit.  Gratz to the dev who shall not be named on that.  /sarcasm</p><p>By comparison, my Illusionist is miles better off than my coercer, but only because he got better EoF AAs.  If a class is least played, their is a reason.  And being too hard isnt one of those reasons.  Its not THAT challenging to master a coercer.  You have to pay attention sure, but that just goes to show you how easy EQ2 has become.  The real challenge to playing a coercer is not deleting him after every live update when you see what nerfs are in store for you.</p></blockquote>This is wrong.  Those 2-10 seconds bought a ton a time.  Loads of DPS.  The problem is people spread garbage like this around, and people start believing it.  When was the last time you played your coerocer buddy? 2, 3 years ago?</blockquote><p>Keep telling ourself that buddy.  Being blind to the issues wont get us fixed.  Only being vocal.  Sorry I am in that raiding minority of players, so that is where I am coming from.</p><p>I would like to meet the raid force that can stop all DPS and DoTs on a dime while you mez a mob...go on show me one.  Stun and stifle have VERY limited use so as not to have much effect at all on raids.  And do you really think you do loads of DPS?  Cause if you do, I guess you just have lower expectations than me.  And for the record I played my Coercer yesterday.  Illusionist too.  Yup its just as I described.</p>

[Flipmode]

<cite>dhvyse000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flipmode wrote:</cite><blockquote>Forgot to add, when you can totally raid without a class and not miss them, something is wrong.  Your raid is better served by adding a 2nd illusionist, troub, or dirge than having a coercer atm.  All add the same amount of buffs and increase their respective grps dps by more than the coercer.  Also the bards are on par with the coercer dps wise.  The illusionist will double or tripple their dps.</blockquote>Flipmode, you really have NO clue what you're talking about.</blockquote><p>Right...</p><p> Mosey over to EQ2 flames or the coercer board.  Yeah you can insert your foot in your mouth now..</p>

[woolf2k]

none/boredom

[Vatec]

I think they're uncommon for three reasons:1.  They take skill to play well.2.  A lot of people don't like grouping with crowd control classes.  Too many complications about what spells and arts you can use, which mobs you can hit, too many lectures about breaking mez, etc.  Plus it's boring.  The coercer/illusionist is the only one actually doing anything interesting, the rest of the group is just burning down one mob at a time.3.  Crowd control is generally unnecessary for most heroic group content.In short, it's a very powerful class and a lot of fun for the player.  Unfortunately, it is often =perceived= as unnecessary and unfun for groupmates.That being said, if you like a challenge and have good social skills, you'll probably enjoy the class.  But you'll need the social skills to convince people to group with you and to educate them about your capabilities without annoying them.EDIT:  And, of course, the unwritten fourth reason:  Coercers don't get to raid much once they hit endgame.  So the hardcore raiders don't feel compelled to level one up.

[woolf2k]

<cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think they're uncommon for three reasons:1.  They take skill to play well.2.  A lot of people don't like grouping with crowd control classes.  Too many complications about what spells and arts you can use, which mobs you can hit, too many lectures about breaking mez, etc.  Plus it's boring.  The coercer/illusionist is the only one actually doing anything interesting, the rest of the group is just burning down one mob at a time.3.  Crowd control is generally unnecessary for most heroic group content.In short, it's a very powerful class and a lot of fun for the player.  Unfortunately, it is often =perceived= as unnecessary and unfun for groupmates.That being said, if you like a challenge and have good social skills, you'll probably enjoy the class.  But you'll need the social skills to convince people to group with you and to educate them about your capabilities without annoying them.EDIT:  And, of course, the unwritten fourth reason:  Coercers don't get to raid much once they hit endgame.  So the hardcore raiders don't feel compelled to level one up.</blockquote>I tried illusionist to 40 and coercer to 20... they ARE boring. Coercer was a little bit more "fun" cause the darn charm would break every minute so you had to keep an eye on that. but that's something I wasn't willing to deal with. that asside I was just plain bored... probably because of what you said in 3... you really don't need crowd in heroic groups unless it's a tough place like unrest or castle mistmoore... and there aren't enough of those around at lower levels...only reason I'd level a coercer is so i can drop a mob on someone... woot!and level an illusionist would be for raiding.but I'd have to deal with leveling up to 70... I started leveling my troub instead. he's more fun. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />