About the Isle of Refuge

[Commander Li]

<p>Can someone here enlighten me as to where the "Refugees" actually come from ?</p><p>Have all the People that end up on the Isle of Refuge fled from the Enchanted Lands, Faydark, Freeport or any of the other Islands - or are there Lands beyond what the Map in Game shows ?...I just wonder where all the non-qeynosian Kerra live, aside from Freeport.</p>

[Vonotar]

The name dates back to an earlier version of the newb part of the game.Originally you would start the game being rescued by a boat, and you would be brought to the isle of refuge.Apparently there are (to judge by the number of new players each day) thousands of lost souls in the high seas, as a result of the shattering (tearing apart the continents and causing massive flooding).These days it's a bit of a throw-back.

[Cusashorn]

<p>Yep yep. The original story is that Darathar wiped your memory clean of who you used to be in the past. All of a sudden, you're pulled on board a ship out in the middle of the ocean, captained by Captain Vargas (who is Darathar himself). He tells you that you lost your memory as a result of the cataclysms. Imagine that....</p><p>Ever since Darathar was defeated by many players who completed the prismatic questline, and they changed it so that you just start off as your class instead of advancing to it, they changed the story line so that returning players were already heroes and adventurers in the past.</p>

[Vhalen]

<p>The Isles of Refuge were established by the Far Seas Trading Company. For the most part they are a collection of islands resting in the large central body of water in the Shattered Lands, the Tranquil Sea. It is from these islands that the Far Seas Trading Company can best base their trade routes out of. There are numerous islands in the Tranquil Sea, not just the Isles of Refuge. These islands are diverse in resources, keeping the Far Seas Trading Company very busy and their mysterious leaders very rich.</p><p>One of the most important resources that the Far Seas Trading Company found were the many refugees that had been marooned on any number of isles throughout the Tranquil Sea. All the islands in the Tranquil Sea were once part of the large continent of Antonica. During the Age of Cataclysms the undercontinent below Antonica, Subtunaria, erupted in violent quakes. Much of Subtunaria collapsed and this brought down large sections of Antonica, helping to create the vast Tranquil Sea and its many islands. Marooned out on these shards of a once great continent were a great many villagers, clans, tribes and adventurers.</p><p>Not all islanders are seeking refuge within the great and mighty cities of man, but for those that do there are the trade boats of the Far Seas Trading Company. Those cargo ships visit many islands to collect resources to be sold in various markets. Far Seas Trading Posts pop up on many small isles. Not all of those trading posts are public knowledge. Many are secret ports that the Far Seas will share with no nation. I am sure we will discover more islands of the Tranquil Sea in the future, with or without the permission of the Far Seas Trading Company.</p>

[Jindrack]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yep yep. The original story is that Darathar wiped your memory clean of who you used to be in the past. All of a sudden, you're pulled on board a ship out in the middle of the ocean, captained by Captain Vargas (who is Darathar himself). He tells you that you lost your memory as a result of the cataclysms. Imagine that....</p><p>Ever since Darathar was defeated by many players who completed the prismatic questline, and they changed it so that you just start off as your class instead of advancing to it, they changed the story line so that returning players were already heroes and adventurers in the past.</p></blockquote>Darathar didn't wipe those refugees memories clean, but he did see something in those particular castaways and plucked them out of the water knowing he would be able to use them at a future time.

[melaine_dvarvensplitter]

<cite>Vhalen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The Isles of Refuge were established by the Far Seas Trading Company. For the most part they are a collection of islands resting in the large central body of water in the Shattered Lands, the Tranquil Sea. It is from these islands that the Far Seas Trading Company can best base their trade routes out of. There are numerous islands in the Tranquil Sea, not just the Isles of Refuge. These islands are diverse in resources, keeping the Far Seas Trading Company very busy and their mysterious leaders very rich.</p><p>One of the most important resources that the Far Seas Trading Company found were the many refugees that had been marooned on any number of isles throughout the Tranquil Sea. All the islands in the Tranquil Sea were once part of the large continent of Antonica. During the Age of Cataclysms the undercontinent below Antonica, Subtunaria, erupted in violent quakes. Much of Subtunaria collapsed and this brought down large sections of Antonica, helping to create the vast Tranquil Sea and its many islands. Marooned out on these shards of a once great continent were a great many villagers, clans, tribes and adventurers.</p><p>Not all islanders are seeking refuge within the great and mighty cities of man, but for those that do there are the trade boats of the Far Seas Trading Company. Those cargo ships visit many islands to collect resources to be sold in various markets. Far Seas Trading Posts pop up on many small isles. Not all of those trading posts are public knowledge. Many are secret ports that the Far Seas will share with no nation. I am sure we will discover more islands of the Tranquil Sea in the future, with or without the permission of the Far Seas Trading Company.</p></blockquote>OHHHHHH sneaky Vhalen .. hinting at some nice goodies <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> As one who hasn't played eq1 I am enjoying the lore I find and get <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Jindrack wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yep yep. The original story is that Darathar wiped your memory clean of who you used to be in the past. All of a sudden, you're pulled on board a ship out in the middle of the ocean, captained by Captain Vargas (who is Darathar himself). He tells you that you lost your memory as a result of the cataclysms. Imagine that....</p><p>Ever since Darathar was defeated by many players who completed the prismatic questline, and they changed it so that you just start off as your class instead of advancing to it, they changed the story line so that returning players were already heroes and adventurers in the past.</p></blockquote>Darathar didn't wipe those refugees memories clean, but he did see something in those particular castaways and plucked them out of the water knowing he would be able to use them at a future time.</blockquote>Oh? i thought that was how the story went. I thought he cast anmesia on all of us. huh.

[Zabjade]

<p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Interesting, I hope there is followthrough on the hint of more islands found, BTW does the Far Seas Trading company have Geomancer's on the payroll That would make a good reason for Queen's Colony, Isle of Refuge, and Outpost of the Overlord to have the same geography <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Still I would love to visit some of the islands that where shown on the PnP maps and some of the High sea's landmarks like the Straits of Twelve. Still want to find what remains of the Antonican Spires even it is just the stumps of the arches and the ruins of the town that was built up there. </span></p>

[shadowscale]

when is it ever mentioned that <span class="postbody">Captain Vargas was </span><span class="postbody">Darathar</span><span class="postbody">? i knew he was the sage of ages but cant remember any reference to </span><span class="postbody">Captain Vargas. unless i missed something big. no idea how i missed it. </span>

[Cele]

<p>WOW, neat outlook, i never really thought about the begining  lore, other rhan, "well, her eis my newest toon, lets roll. </p><p>Neat hints, Vaheln</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Umm I can't remember where it's hinted at in the game (it's sometime along the prismatic questline). It's been ages since I completed it so I don't remember.</p><p>But think about this: Don't you find it a tad suspicious that a drakota would come along and attack your ship out of nowhere, specifically just taking a pot shot at some cargo, then flying off? Darathar used to be in posetion of the Harness.</p>

[troodon]

If I remember correctly, at some point Darathar references "pulling you from the sea" or something along those lines.

[Gukkor2]

Er, but don't you encounter Captain Vargas elsewhere later on (like how you meet Ingrid on Mara and Waulon on the docks of Faydwer)?

[shadowscale]

<span class="postbody">ah its Captian Varlos</span><span class="postbody"> not Vargus, unless we are thinking of two diffrent people. and he is still in charge of the Far Journey</span><span class="postbody"> at the queens colony and outpost of the overlord isent he?. Darather did send the drakota to attack the ship thogh. i forgot why exactly but i think he was eather trying to kill you or just testing you.</span>

[troodon]

<cite>shadowscale wrote:</cite><blockquote><span class="postbody">ah its Captian Varlos</span><span class="postbody"> not Vargus, unless we are thinking of two diffrent people. and he is still in charge of the Far Journey</span><span class="postbody"> at the queens colony and outpost of the overlord isent he?. Darather did send the drakota to attack the ship thogh. i forgot why exactly but i think he was eather trying to kill you or just testing you.</span></blockquote><p>Well, saying he's still on the Island of Refuge is like saying Venekor is still in Cazic Thule.  Varlos (you're right on the name, btw) is still on the Island because the newbies there haven't gone through Prismatic 1 and realized he's Darathar, just like people seeing and (hypothetically) raiding Venekor in CT haven't kicked him out and into the Halls of Seeing.  You can't look at Norrath as a snapshot in time, you have to look at it as a progression from tier to tier that is going on simultaneously for all players.</p><p>To Gukkor2, the other crew members of the Far Journey do appear later on in the game, but not Varlos (except, of course, as Darathar and the Sage of Ages).</p>

[Commander Li]

<p>I want to thank you all for the speedy and useful Answers !Looks like I'll dig up some EQ1 Maps in search of my Origins...</p><p>And, uh, one more Question - How long does the Age of Cataclysms lie back ?That is, how long have those Villages been isolated on their Islands ?</p>

[IrishWonder]

<p>The Rending occurred 200-300 years ago, so the isolated villages have been there awhile.</p><p>The Shattering happened closer to 15-20 years ago, but that doesn't seem to have affected any of the islands in the Tranquil Sea that we've seen yet... atleast not to the degree of other islands.</p>

[shadowscale]

if anyone can remember exactly when it says varlos is darather can you say where? so i don't miss it agen when doing prismatic with my alt?

[IrishWonder]

<p>Captain Varlos being Darathar is something I've always taken with a grain of salt, simply because I have never seen any reference to that fact in-game myself. I've done the quest three times total, and logged the dialogue once, but I can never remember Darathar ever saying that he was Captain Varlos (even in an indirect manner.)</p><p>I'm inclined to believe it's true, simply because so many people on the forums have said it... but I won't believe completely until I find where it is referenced in-game. I've always been a bit OCD about things like that <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Here is the quest dialogue: <a href="http://www.eiwyn.arcanya.com/book/Prismatic_Quests.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.eiwyn.arcanya.com/book/P...tic_Quests.html</a> </p><p>The only thing missing is the little snippet that Darathar blurts out when he ports into Drayek's Chamber and steals the egg from you. It's possible that he reveals himself to be Varlos then... I'm going to try to run an alt to that point this weekend just to see.</p>

[troodon]

Since there isn't any actual Darathar dialogue on that website, I would reserve judgement until you see it again <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[IrishWonder]

<p>That's because the only thing Darathar says in his true form is what he says after porting into Drayek's Chamber and stealing the egg from you... which, as stated, is missing <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> Probably because it's not activated text, he just sends a zonewide message.</p><p>Well, unless you count the dialogue during the fight with him, which just pertains to the battle at hand. Again, though, I'm sure it's something I'm overlooking. Too many people have stated that he is Varlos, so it's probably true.</p>

[teddyboy4]

<cite>Jindrack wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yep yep. The original story is that Darathar wiped your memory clean of who you used to be in the past. All of a sudden, you're pulled on board a ship out in the middle of the ocean, captained by Captain Vargas (who is Darathar himself). He tells you that you lost your memory as a result of the cataclysms. Imagine that....</p><p>Ever since Darathar was defeated by many players who completed the prismatic questline, and they changed it so that you just start off as your class instead of advancing to it, they changed the story line so that returning players were already heroes and adventurers in the past.</p></blockquote>Darathar didn't wipe those refugees memories clean, but he did see something in those particular castaways and plucked them out of the water knowing he would be able to use them at a future time.</blockquote>For those doubting that Captain Varlos is indeed Darathar.....your proof is quoted right here. Just read what Jindrack wrote and that's all there is to it.

[shadowscale]

<cite>Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>For those doubting that Captain Varlos is indeed Darathar.....your proof is quoted right here. Just read what Jindrack wrote and that's all there is to it. </blockquote>there were other npc's on the far journey at the time besides varlos. but this topic does seem interesting, also surprised i missed it during prismatic quest line.

[teddyboy4]

I coulda sworn that I posted this before, but I don't see it here so I'll reiterate.Looking at a map of Norrath before The Shattering and The Rending and comparing it to Norrath in the current time frame, the location of the Isle of Refuge roughly matches up w/ the old location of Highpass. This is old news though as I remember people talking about this in beta, or around release in any case.I kinda like that idea personally b/c it would make sense and Highhold Keep was one of my favorite hunting grounds in EQ. Starting with the goblins in the basement and tunnels and moving on to the guards and nameds in the Keep proper was a great place for xp and even plat grinding....ahh good times, good times. Anyway, the Isle of Refuge being the area of and/or around Highpass would also at least explain the heavy presence of goblins on the island. And the goblins would actually make for a good excuse for the Keep not being around anymore as well. One could say that when the Rending began the goblins, trying to save themselves, rose up and destroyed the Keep and all it's inhabitants in order to get out of the tunnels below.

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>I coulda sworn that I posted this before, but I don't see it here so I'll reiterate.Looking at a map of Norrath before The Shattering and The Rending and comparing it to Norrath in the current time frame, the location of the Isle of Refuge roughly matches up w/ the old location of Highpass. This is old news though as I remember people talking about this in beta, or around release in any case.I kinda like that idea personally b/c it would make sense and Highhold Keep was one of my favorite hunting grounds in EQ. Starting with the goblins in the basement and tunnels and moving on to the guards and nameds in the Keep proper was a great place for xp and even plat grinding....ahh good times, good times. Anyway, the Isle of Refuge being the area of and/or around Highpass would also at least explain the heavy presence of goblins on the island. And the goblins would actually make for a good excuse for the Keep not being around anymore as well. One could say that when the Rending began the goblins, trying to save themselves, rose up and destroyed the Keep and all it's inhabitants in order to get out of the tunnels below. </blockquote>The Isles of Refuge isn't Highpass. Highpass and Highkeep are the headquarters of the Far Seas Trading Company.

[Cocytus]

<p>Wait, Darathar was Captain Vargas <b>and</b> the Sage of the Ages?Interesting. Deceiving fella. I sort of miss this storyline, now, honestly, as it kind of gave EQ2 a "complete circle" feel.</p><p>Darathar rescues adventurers, hoping to use them in the future...The adventurers go all through Norrath, honing their skills, and one day stumble across Darathar in a new form, and are deceived into several epic encounters..And eventually, after being used, finally slay Darathar.</p><p>Definately a cool story.</p>

[Drager]

<cite>MT</cite>

[Drager]

<cite>troodon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shadowscale wrote:</cite><p>Well, saying he's still on the Island of Refuge is like saying Venekor is still in Cazic Thule.  Varlos (you're right on the name, btw) is still on the Island because the newbies there haven't gone through Prismatic 1 and realized he's Darathar, just like people seeing and (hypothetically) raiding Venekor in CT haven't kicked him out and into the Halls of Seeing.  You can't look at Norrath as a snapshot in time, you have to look at it as a progression from tier to tier that is going on simultaneously for all players.</p><p>To Gukkor2, the other crew members of the Far Journey do appear later on in the game, but not Varlos (except, of course, as Darathar and the Sage of Ages).</p></blockquote>Ok i have thought alot about how these npcs who we have killed continue to reaper over and over again and i decided to look at it like this.... you know how when you die you have your healer come galivanting along to RESERECT  you so you can get back to what you were doing  so why cant a  NPC do the same thing reserection is a clear part of the game and nothing in the game dies in the true sense of the word cause when you kill a named in a instance you have a lock out timer which means the named ovisly sent for some buddys to go pick him back up o and when you go to a res point that is just ether a some random healer from your city helping people out or B your deity making sure you dont die before you do what they need from u

[troodon]

<cite>Drager@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok i have thought alot about how these npcs who we have killed continue to reaper over and over again and i decided to look at it like this.... you know how when you die you have your healer come galivanting along to RESERECT  you so you can get back to what you were doing  so why cant a  NPC do the same thing reserection is a clear part of the game and nothing in the game dies in the true sense of the word cause when you kill a named in a instance you have a lock out timer which means the named ovisly sent for some buddys to go pick him back up o and when you go to a res point that is just ether a some random healer from your city helping people out or B your deity making sure you dont die before you do what they need from u</blockquote><p>I don't think so.</p><p>Some mobs you kill in game just die and stay dead (like Fyst in DFC, when you come back in the Prismatic line he's still dead and Grozmag has taken over as regent).  Other NPCs, such as Venekor in CT, you don't actually kill (even though you see their corpse).  You actually just 'defeat' them and they run off.  MOBs in instances repop over and over again simply because of a game mechanic, there's no lore in that at all.</p><p>That's the way I see it, at least.  To think that named MOBs keep getting rezzed over and over again is just silly</p>

[Drager]

well the whole game is silly cause you just keep getting rezzed over and over again i do like your point about the mobs that dont reaper but i think that a res would be more eceptable than a dragon running away with its tail between its knees still you see the corpse and if the epics do run away it would say you have defeated Venekor rather than you have slayn him 

[Paddyo]

<cite>troodon wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well, saying he's still on the Island of Refuge is like saying Venekor is still in Cazic Thule.  Varlos (you're right on the name, btw) is still on the Island because the newbies there haven't gone through Prismatic 1 and realized he's Darathar, just like people seeing and (hypothetically) raiding Venekor in CT haven't kicked him out and into the Halls of Seeing.  You can't look at Norrath as a snapshot in time, you have to look at it as a progression from tier to tier that is going on simultaneously for all players.</p></blockquote>Or saying grandpa Rucksif is stuck in the basement of the Tower of Vhalen....when we all know he is in the basement of Unrest! 

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Paddyo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>troodon wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well, saying he's still on the Island of Refuge is like saying Venekor is still in Cazic Thule.  Varlos (you're right on the name, btw) is still on the Island because the newbies there haven't gone through Prismatic 1 and realized he's Darathar, just like people seeing and (hypothetically) raiding Venekor in CT haven't kicked him out and into the Halls of Seeing.  You can't look at Norrath as a snapshot in time, you have to look at it as a progression from tier to tier that is going on simultaneously for all players.</p></blockquote>Or saying grandpa Rucksif is stuck in the basement of the Tower of Vhalen....when we all know he is in the basement of Unrest! </blockquote>If memory serves right, they're two different ghosts. Hwal says that the his grandfather's ghost isn't the same as the Garanel Rucksif that gave his family the curse.

[Wilde_Night]

Yes, I seem to recall that also, Cusahorn.  They mention that the family likes to reuse the name... for some unknown reason.  Crazy dwarves.

[Eriol]

You guys keep saying it's Varlos, but I thought Darathar was the "owner" of the Isle of Refuge?  In the original way through it, you could talk to a guy on the "bay docks" who told you that he owned the island, etc.  I thought I heard some reference somewhere that HE was Darathar, and it had nothing to do with Varlos.

[einar4]

<p> Yes, I thought Varlos was just the captain of the ship that picked you up.  Admittedly I never really paid much heed to the Isle or Refuge as any part of the actual lore, as it really seemed a bit too contrived for my tastes. </p>

[Drager]

oh ya man the island of refuge i didnt see how that would have anything to do with the lore then or now until i saw this post  

[BadManHip]

I wish they would make a server where you the game is how it was when it was first releasedyou know, the original isle of refuge, and how arch-class and all that meant somethingand how access quests....were actual access questsSpirit shards were back, exp debt existed, all the good stuffwhile at the same time keeping AA, and 70 being the kapsorry for being off-topic*on topic part*so was Vhalen saying that theres a chance we are gonna get to see some of these hidden isles?

[Kyle]

<cite>Cocytus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Wait, Darathar was Captain Vargas <b>and</b> the Sage of the Ages?Interesting. Deceiving fella. I sort of miss this storyline, now, honestly, as it kind of gave EQ2 a "complete circle" feel.</p><p>Darathar rescues adventurers, hoping to use them in the future...The adventurers go all through Norrath, honing their skills, and one day stumble across Darathar in a new form, and are deceived into several epic encounters..And eventually, after being used, finally slay Darathar.</p><p>Definately a cool story.</p></blockquote>I couldn't agree more. About a month ago my guild and I went back and did the first Prismatic quest and I was loving every minute of it. I'm so glad we went back and did it.It's great to have a "never ending" game like EverQuest 2 but to incorporate the story the way they did with the deception quest I was blown away. Absolutely loved coming full circle.

[Tyrus Dracofire]

<p>this is just my own version.</p><p>woke up on ship, having no past memories.</p><p>assuming if leftover Luclin moon shards holding the characters fell to Norrath or strange event of battle from "Ethernauts", an army of adventurers from the distant past trying to save Norrath, caught in "Time explosion" sending us across the time and randomly found by Far Sea captians on the seas.</p><p>as we leveled up and explored, and only to find bits and pieces of Void saga where the battle took place when we found out when we have ancient kaborite relics, as explained from dwarf from the past.</p><p>these Far Sea captians couldnt explain how we survive on sea when they find so many other players along the voyages or how come that we dont have memories, it could be ether got wiped or massive dimensional explosion knock away and have amnesia.</p><p>now, with Gfay, neriak, Gorowyn, and soon to be added, New Halas, all started with different character beginnings, it seem strange that we have no memory of "Childhood" days, it seem every character got no "living" parents or any NPC or other were looking for missing person or families.</p><p>assuming that we were all shattered across the time, and our past "gone".</p>

[Aintdeadyet]

<p>Skipping all the lore - I liked the starter island for new toons. Lots of fun was had there in the old days. </p>

[KniteShayd]

<p><cite>BadManHippo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I wish they would make a server where you the game is how it was when it was first releasedyou know, the original isle of refuge, and how arch-class and all that meant somethingand how access quests....were actual access questsSpirit shards were back, exp debt existed, all the good stuffwhile at the same time keeping AA, and 70 being the kapsorry for being off-topic<span style="color: #ff00ff;">It was stated that there is a possibility of a Progression Server going live ast some point. The details of which, and how it will work mechanic-wise, is still a mystery at this time.</span></blockquote><blockquote>*on topic part*so was Vhalen saying that theres a chance we are gonna get to see some of these hidden isles?<span style="color: #ff00ff;">He just explained what, and where, they were. He never said if we would visit them; probably to avoid stepping on the toes of the other devs, and what/when expacs would be realeased.</span></blockquote>

[KniteShayd]

<p>I knida miss seeing that half elf, with blue hair, mysteriously use her hidden abilities to put ouy that fire... I always wanted blue hair for my half-elf....</p>

[Brigh]

<p>great resurrection of a 3 year old thread...with interesting info since I never was in a position to do the epic quest.</p>

[Brook]

<p>I wonder if Vhalen had the removal of the isles of refuge planned from the start?</p><p>If not I wonder what he thinks about it, lore and storyline makes or breaks a game like this and he was one of the best at what he did.</p><p>If the removal of the islands were part of a story that he wrote long ago, then we can be certain it will be a story of epic proportions and will be fun and entertaining.</p><p>If this isn't part of Vhalens lore I don't foresee it being all that great and will ruin one of my favorite storyline in the game.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>There's no way he would have done this. This game's lore has been planned out without him since the Order of Rime came out.</p>

[Anestacia]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There's no way he would have done this. This game's lore has been planned out without him since the Order of Rime came out.</p></blockquote><p>You can not say there is no way he would have done this.  He may not have wanted to but someone higher up obviously made the decision and if he had to he would have created a lore reason for it just like they have done now.  While he has not been around for some time, his hand is still in play in the tomes he left behind.  I know the Void was his creation and we JUST saw the end of it this year so there is no telling for sure how much of the current lore is rooted with Vhalen's thoughts and ideas.</p>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>While it is true that Vhalen casts a long shadow,  I am feel confident that this particular decision was made after his departure.</p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>While it is true that Vhalen casts a long shadow,  I am feel confident that this particular decision was made after his departure.</p></blockquote><p>He may have argued against the idea, though it is POSSABLE he would be for it as well, consitering we have been moving away from them for years.</p><p>Really, the whole Refugee story bit the dust when we switched to Queens Colony and Isle of the Overlord, and he was here for that. Besides who knows they could very well come up with some really good lore reason those islands went dark, if we ever go back to them.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Since he helped start this game from the very beginning, I seriously doubt he would allow them to remove Qeynos and Freeport as starting cities. Removing the islands is one thing, but removing Q/FP as starting cities is a completely seperate issue that could be avoided.... yet SoE is adamant about making sure both happen.</p>

[Anestacia]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Since he helped start this game from the very beginning, I seriously doubt he would allow them to remove Qeynos and Freeport as starting cities. Removing the islands is one thing, but removing Q/FP as starting cities is a completely seperate issue that could be avoided.... yet SoE is adamant about making sure both happen.</p></blockquote><p>He did help start the game from the beggining.  And for the most part I think he did a great job.  But since he was there from the beggining, then that means he had to acept the fact that they put the Foreign Quarter in the Commonlands and Befallen in Antonica.  He had to write lore around that (even though I still dont think Fallen Gate was ever truly explained) because someone higher than him made the decision to put those dungeons in those zones.  Someone higher up decided the islands were not a good starting zone for new players and now the lore has to be written for that as well.</p><p>I understand people are not happy about the change but maybe something even better will come down the pipe.  I personally would much rather see Freeport and Qeynos as a MEANINGFUL hub for all players instead of a starting area that is rarely visited after your first few levels.</p><p>Oh and let's not keep banging on about ancestral homes shall we?  High Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, Kerrans and Iksars to name a few all have their homes in this game yet are unable to live there and in some cases completly destroyed.  It's part of the lore and direction EQ2 is headed and thats just the way it is.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Anestacia wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Oh and let's not keep banging on about ancestral homes shall we?  High Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, Kerrans and Iksars to name a few all have their homes in this game yet are unable to live there and in some cases completly destroyed.  It's part of the lore and direction EQ2 is headed and thats just the way it is.</p></blockquote><p>Everyone else was *FORCED* out of their home. Extenuating circumstances far beyond their control. Disasters, War, Invasions, Enslavement, Tyrants declaring heresy against the gods, Internal strife, Ethnic purifying, being trapped in another dimension...</p><p>Despite the fact that those cities have been reintroduced, the fact remains that they are under control of someone new now.</p><p>If Q and FP were suddenly destroyed or taken over- some situation what would require us to move out, then I wouldn't have a problem with it. I'd accept it because I would know that we're not experiencing the same things that everyone else had to go through.</p><p>However, Humans are still in control of Qeynos and Freeport, yet are being denied the right of starting in them just because some global trade company placed a couple of ships in the way.</p>

[Wolphin]

<p>get over it.... you can still have your character move to qeynos or freeport at anytime and live there. Your starting your adventuring career in New Halas, no one says you have to live there or stay there... return to qeynos if that is what you prefer...</p>

[Anestacia]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Anestacia wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Oh and let's not keep banging on about ancestral homes shall we?  High Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, Kerrans and Iksars to name a few all have their homes in this game yet are unable to live there and in some cases completly destroyed.  It's part of the lore and direction EQ2 is headed and thats just the way it is.</p></blockquote><p>Everyone else was *FORCED* out of their home. Extenuating circumstances far beyond their control. Disasters, War, Invasions, Enslavement, Tyrants declaring heresy against the gods, Internal strife, Ethnic purifying, being trapped in another dimension...</p><p>Despite the fact that those cities have been reintroduced, the fact remains that they are under control of someone new now.</p><p>If Q and FP were suddenly destroyed or taken over- some situation what would require us to move out, then I wouldn't have a problem with it. I'd accept it because I would know that we're not experiencing the same things that everyone else had to go through.</p><p>However, <strong>Humans are still in control of Qeynos and Freeport,</strong> yet are being denied the right of starting in them just because some global trade company placed a couple of ships in the way.</p></blockquote><p>The big issue you are missing is that Freeport and Qeynos haven't been <em>human</em> cities since this game started.  Qeynos is ruled over by a human and so that one might be debatable but Freeport has always had a VERY small human presence in the city.  Sure, Lucan <em>used</em> to be human and even if we wanted to argue semantics about lich vs. human, he's not in control any more.  Freeport is as good as destroyed and of all the factions that are warring with one another atm, I can't say I've seen any humans in the mix.  We have patroling Ogres and battling Dark Elves all over the place but not many humans to be seen.</p>

[ke'la]

<p>The fact of the matter is droping Qeynos and FP as available starting cities is a very good BUSSINESS desistion, because of the absolute horrable new player experiance you get from starting in those cities. Nestaga aside it never really was a good new player experiance, by today's standards, and if your trying to get people to play the game, you want to put your best face forward, not your least appealing and very dated one. Would anyone recomend a new player start in Q/FP really?</p><p>I know what you will say, "they could fix it"... they could really, fix a set-up that was designed around people spending about 10hrs in the multiple zones, befor heading out to Antonica/CL? Those areas are too cut-up and too small to really be fixed without a MAJOR overhaul, one wich in reality the EQ2 devs nolonger have the resources to pull off.</p>

[Valdaglerion]

<p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span style="color: #000000; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px;">I know what you will say, "they could fix it"... they could really, fix a set-up that was designed around people spending about 10hrs in the multiple zones, befor heading out to Antonica/CL? Those areas are too cut-up and too small to really be fixed without a MAJOR overhaul, one wich in reality the EQ2 devs nolonger have the resources to pull off.</span></blockquote><p>Really? Because once you hit level 10 on the starting isles you are set for Antonica and CL. The sub zone content around Freeport and Qeynos is largely <10 with the exception Oakmyst Forest, Graveyard and the sewer systems which can lead into the 20's as well. Antonica and CL start at 10 soooo really there is no reason you cant hit the Isles, level to 10, go to the city, buy a house and head to Antonica and CL directly if you want to. I know I did on multiple toons and very recently with new toons on other servers as a test. But alas . . </p><p>As for a business decision - When an overwhelming response from your players says, dont do it, we like the Isles, why upset your customers just because you think this new shiny thing is better? Makes no sense to me, nor will it ever quite possibly.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Wolphin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>get over it.... you can still have your character move to qeynos or freeport at anytime and live there. Your starting your adventuring career in New Halas, no one says you have to live there or stay there... return to qeynos if that is what you prefer...</p></blockquote><p>Actually, New Halas's starting area explains that you just lost everything you used to be- all your possesions, your money, your citizenship status with whatever city you used to come from. Your character has FULL KNOWLEDGE of everything that has happened in history in the past 500 years, even knowing what Velious was like back then. They just handwave your entire past away and force you to start over.</p><p>The way I see it, that's no better. Where is your character's options to acknowledge everything he used to be? The fact that he may have been a citizen of Qeynos, maybe he was sent there to assist New Halas on Qeynos' orders and all that.. Nope.  All of it is gone, and you have to accept that you are now a citizen of a new city whether you wanted to be one or not. That's just as bad as Humans being told they can't start in their cities just because a couple boats block the way.</p>

[Gladiolus]

<p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>The fact of the matter is droping Qeynos and FP as available starting cities is a very good BUSSINESS desistion, because of the absolute horrable new player experiance you get from starting in those cities. Nestaga aside it never really was a good new player experiance, by today's standards, and if your trying to get people to play the game, you want to put your best face forward, not your least appealing and very dated one. Would anyone recomend a new player start in Q/FP really?</blockquote><p>Of course I would, and did. Faydark might be beautiful but between the squeaky voices, constantly falling in the river and the huge trees that aren't on the map, it's a frustrating place to begin. Timorous Deep is nice, once. Darklight Woods is better but who wants to live in a city consisting mainly of bottomless pits? The Isle of Refuge had it all, and I never tired of creating new characters there. Halas has nice quests to do once but who would want to go back to that bleak scenery and a town that seems more like a camp?</p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span style="font-size: 12px; color: #000000;">I know what you will say, "they could fix it"... they could really, fix a set-up that was designed around people spending about 10hrs in the multiple zones, befor heading out to Antonica/CL? Those areas are too cut-up and too small to really be fixed without a MAJOR overhaul, one wich in reality the EQ2 devs nolonger have the resources to pull off.</span></blockquote><p>Really? Because once you hit level 10 on the starting isles you are set for Antonica and CL. The sub zone content around Freeport and Qeynos is largely <10 with the exception Oakmyst Forest, Graveyard and the sewer systems which can lead into the 20's as well. Antonica and CL start at 10 soooo really there is no reason you cant hit the Isles, level to 10, go to the city, buy a house and head to Antonica and CL directly if you want to. I know I did on multiple toons and very recently with new toons on other servers as a test. But alas . . </p><p>As for a business decision - When an overwhelming response from your players says, dont do it, we like the Isles, why upset your customers just because you think this new shiny thing is better? Makes no sense to me, nor will it ever quite possibly.</p></blockquote><p>I was talking about how it was DESIGNED, you know back when you accually stopped leveling on the isle at 6, then you went and did your citizenship quests from the local districts, and really wouldn't think about steping into Ant until around 13 or 14. Heck, both FP and Quenos had at one time, 5-10, 10-15, and 15-20ish Heroic Contested dungons. FP and Qeyons where set-up for a time when people would accually spend a great deal of time in the 1-20 range, and not blow though them in 5hrs or less. That set-up just doesn't work.</p><p>As for the "Overwhelming response"...first forums are always skewed against whatever is done, because people don't take the time to post thier views if they are Happy with them. There is also people who remember fondly leveling up in those zones, and don't like the IDEA of not being able to go back, eventhough I am willing to bet that most spend 1-20 in Gorowin, DLW, or Kelethin, and rarely vist those isles, except to run to the skip this zone button and head out.</p><p>Can you honestly say you would recomend to ANYONE accually starting a New toon, on the Q/FP path without going very early on to Gorowin, etc?</p><p>What is the answer to the question in the Newbe/trial forums about where to start? Gorowin if evil, Qeynos if good cause it has the fastest access to Gorowin, and now with New Halas, you don't even have people recomending Qeynos cause it is the easiest to skip anymore... It will now be if evil Gorowin or possably DLW, if Good New Halas.</p><p>To your question about why upset your customers, um really the people who are upset aren't going to quit over this, and really are likly to forget about it soon enough, cause again virtually noone goes there. However, you want to make sure your NEW CUSTOMERS have the best experiance possable, and consitering most of them are just randomly choising between, Door #1, Door #2 and Door #3, without knowing whats behind them, its best to just lock the Zonk right of the bat, so as not to run them off.</p>

[Rainmare]

<p>actually, yes. I reccomend going to the isle to every newbie I have met on the boards and to everyone I meet outside the game itself. becuase frankly, the newbie isles did a better job of teaching you GAME MECHANICS then the present starter areas do.</p><p>you might go to Gorowyn or DLW to get gear, but that's it. no one wants to actuallly live there practically.</p><p>it's been stated over and over on the newbie forums too how much people HATE kelethin, Gorowyn and Neriak as cities. Neriak is too laggy, adn gorowyn and kelethin are too confusing. so you'd rather make those people take an hour of thier tim eso they can get to a city that right now they can get to by clicking a button on character select.</p><p>and for every person that talks about how graet the gear is in TD, there's two people that can't stand all the running aroun dand griffion flights to get anywhere. Everyone complains about trying to get around in Gfay.</p><p>so really, for the 'best' run, you actually only have two choices. Halas if your good, and Neriak if your evil. and there are people who can't stand halas right now on test, and many that are even complaining about the color scheme giving them motion sickness. (though I feel sorry for them when Velious comes out...I mean really how else can you do ice and snow?)</p>

[LordPazuzu]

<p><cite>Anestacia wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Since he helped start this game from the very beginning, I seriously doubt he would allow them to remove Qeynos and Freeport as starting cities. Removing the islands is one thing, but removing Q/FP as starting cities is a completely seperate issue that could be avoided.... yet SoE is adamant about making sure both happen.</p></blockquote><p>He did help start the game from the beggining.  And for the most part I think he did a great job. <strong> But since he was there from the beggining, then that means he had to acept the fact that they put the Foreign Quarter in the Commonlands and Befallen in Antonica.  He had to write lore around that (even though I still dont think Fallen Gate was ever truly explained) because someone higher than him made the decision to put those dungeons in those zones.</strong>  Someone higher up decided the islands were not a good starting zone for new players and now the lore has to be written for that as well.</p></blockquote><p>This pretty much nails it.  When you have a job, you do what you're told.... even if it's dumb.</p>

[Hanokh2010]

<p>ke'la, would you really suggest anyone starting in Gorowyn?  It is a boring, linear questline leading to an un-navigable city that causes nothing but frustration to veteran players and is completely off putting to a new player.</p><p>Some of us actually still play the RPG part of MMORPG.  We don't play to max level in 3 days and get "leet" gear.</p><p>The Isles are still, by far, the best new player experience available.</p><p>Why is it so important to you to have this content taken away from the people who enjoy it daily?  Let us know what your favorite content is and we can start a campaign to have the devs delete it from the game.  Then, let us know how you fell about the removal of content!</p><p>New Halas will be the 4th failed attempt to bring in the hundreds of thousands of new players supposedly just clamoring for a reason to subscribe to EQ2 while driving away many veteran players.</p><p>This will come off more rude than intended, but your posts might sway more people to your opinion with a little proofreading, spell checking, punctuation, etc.--they are almost indecipherable.</p>

[Brook]

<p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>{0}</blockquote><p>I don't agree with yours or SOE's assessment of what constitutes a good new player experience.</p><p>They will lose subs to this I am certain of it, for some of us this is the last straw. It doesnt mean the game is bad or anything I am certain there will be someone to take my place and the game will move on.</p><p>It doesn't matter to me what they decide to do from here on out. I am sick of revamp after revamp that keeps the game in a constant flux of being broken, unbalanced, and lagged to hell. Not to mention all the overland zones being revamped to kiddie-land and some of the dungeons as well. Screw that, its not fun anymore, if New Halas is the best they have to offer in terms of a new player experience and I don't have the option to start in the cities I have since the beginning then this is no longer the game for me.</p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Hanokh2010 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>ke'la, would you really suggest anyone starting in Gorowyn?  It is a boring, linear questline leading to an un-navigable city that causes nothing but frustration to veteran players and is completely off putting to a new player.</p><p>Some of us actually still play the RPG part of MMORPG.  We don't play to max level in 3 days and get "leet" gear.</p><p>The Isles are still, by far, the best new player experience available.</p><p>Why is it so important to you to have this content taken away from the people who enjoy it daily? </p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">So you have accual numbers on this, huh. Odd consitering nearly every time I have been to either isle I am the only one there, if people are enjoying it daily you would think it would be more populated. That said it isn't importaint to me to see it taken away. I am mearly saying it makes sence from the perspective of SoE, and consitering THEY accually know how many people "enjoy" the content on the ISLES OF REFUGE every day, I think I'll go with them on this.</span></p><p>Let us know what your favorite content is and we can start a campaign to have the devs delete it from the game.  Then, let us know how you fell about the removal of content!</p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">So now you are saying the Newbe zones that at most you spent 2hrs on 4 years ago, and can NEVER return to, is your favorate content in the game? why are you still playing? I am also not campaining to have content removed. That ship has already sailed. I am mearly pointing out WHY it makes sence, heck I am not even saying I support the desition, just that it does make sence from SoE's point of view. </span></p><p>New Halas will be the 4th failed attempt to bring in the hundreds of thousands of new players supposedly just clamoring for a reason to subscribe to EQ2 while driving away many veteran players.</p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">I seriously doupt it will drive away many players, because a great many veteran players only have 1 toon and of those that have more then 1 alot of them started the second toon to get a raid slot. It is the minority of players that have multiple alts that start over repeatedly(I happen to be one of them, BTW). Most of the veteran players will be ether playing around in New Halas or heading off to the 2 new raids. </span></p><p>This will come off more rude than intended, but your posts might sway more people to your opinion with a little proofreading, spell checking, punctuation, etc.--they are almost indecipherable.</p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">and maybe people would take you more seriously if you where more observent of people's signitures. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p></blockquote>

[Rast]

<p>I've had many toons start on the islands.  Every good toon I've ever had (and I suffer from altitis severely) except one has been started on the island.  Kelethin is one of the most horrific zones I've ever seen.</p><p>I actually started a new toon on the island just a couple of weeks ago and my wife's new toon was started on the island as well.</p><p>So, yes, I would strongly recommend the island over every starting zone save Neriak and even that is an even split as I've done both.</p>

[Illmarr]

<p>I had open slots so made another toon for the Queen's Colony last week, at the height of the uproar over their removal. Grand total of 3 people in the zone at 7:00 PM PDT. </p><p>Will miss the voice acting. Always love voice acting and annoying my friends by listening to it all the way through.</p>

[Dareena]

<p><cite>Hanokh2010 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>ke'la, would you really suggest anyone starting in Gorowyn?  It is a boring, linear questline leading to an un-navigable city that causes nothing but frustration to veteran players and is completely off putting to a new player.</p></blockquote><p>While your post is rather off topic from the idea of the thread (IE the lore of the Isle of Refuge), I felt the need to comment.  I understand that you dislike TD.  Some people do.  Yet at the same time, new school people can love this zone.  I started a bit after RoK came out and I loved the TD starter zone. </p><p>Unlike the base island, which I couldn't force myself to play past 5th level even while being absolutely drunk, the TD quest series isn't some kind of abstract sand box which requires the players to have ESP.  The current era of EQ2 is the theme park and the TD quest line helps to give people a very good feeling for that concept.  Perhaps it is a little too structured since it used to mess with people's heads once they moved on to Butcherblock and the tone of the quest system changed.  But in the big scheme of things, I wouldn't consider that to be a game breaking problem.</p><p>And for the record, the Gorowyn city system is only confusing if you insist on foolishly trying to use the various cart and tram systems.  If you're willing to do some novice jumping and navigate the city in a 3-D circle, then it's actually a very orderly progression.  As if that wasn't simple enough, the countless ramps and the teleport pads have simplied the city even further.</p><p>I get that you don't like TD.  A couple of friends who also started at the same time as me instantly moved from TD to FP the moment they got into their early 20's.  They do find the city aggravating.  Yet for as much as they loathe TD, I loathe FP and refuse to go there for anything short of buying brokering items from the sellers' homes.  In short, each to their own.</p><p>And like Ke'la has been saying, there have been a lot of comments that I've noticed over my time in EQ2 about the starter isle being confussing.  Or I'll find novices who've leveled only through the isle and starting cities who are asking in 1-9 chat why a mob that's -2 levels below them is completely owning them.  After physically inspecting their character, I find that they have extremely subpar gear which is often far too low of a level for them to use.  When asked about why they were using such equipment, the usual response is that they completed every quest that they could find and assumed that such gear would be enough.</p><p>That's the problem with the 1st-20th level progression through the older cities.  The quests are shot gun sprayed all over creation with little coherency.  Unless you know the system like the back of you hand, a player is forced to either follow Wiki or stumble around blindly.  During the initial learning phases of the game, being force fed decent gear consistently is a good thing since it will give people time to figure out the game without having one arm tied behind their back.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span style="font-size: 12px; color: #000000; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px;">I know what you will say, "they could fix it"... they could really, fix a set-up that was designed around people spending about 10hrs in the multiple zones, befor heading out to Antonica/CL? Those areas are too cut-up and too small to really be fixed without a MAJOR overhaul, one wich in reality the EQ2 devs nolonger have the resources to pull off.</span></blockquote><p>Really? Because once you hit level 10 on the starting isles you are set for Antonica and CL. The sub zone content around Freeport and Qeynos is largely <10 with the exception Oakmyst Forest, Graveyard and the sewer systems which can lead into the 20's as well. Antonica and CL start at 10 soooo really there is no reason you cant hit the Isles, level to 10, go to the city, buy a house and head to Antonica and CL directly if you want to. I know I did on multiple toons and very recently with new toons on other servers as a test. But alas . . </p><p>As for a business decision - When an overwhelming response from your players says, dont do it, we like the Isles, why upset your customers just because you think this new shiny thing is better? Makes no sense to me, nor will it ever quite possibly.</p></blockquote><p>Lol at overwhelming response from your player base. Are you serious? You realize that the starter isle thread which consist of the same posters posting ad naseum is not even that large of a thread compared to many of the other hot issue threads. Remember that thread has been up for over a month and hasnt broken 70 pages. Furthermore the doom and gloom people saying the forums will be overrun with people complaining about the isles? Where is that thread? News flash: It doesnt exist.</p><p>The fact is ALOT of people didnt like the isles. Just read the new player forums or the trial forums there is ALOT of complaints about the isles. The truth of the matter is the majority of the player base could care less about the isles.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There's no way he would have done this. This game's lore has been planned out without him since the Order of Rime came out.</p></blockquote><p>This is COMPLETELY untrue. It funny how this thread from 2007 starts off with a dev correcting your bad information. Vhalen already created a large portion of the lore for Velious and the Order of Rime. Yes Vhalen created the order of Rime lore.</p><p>How can I prove that? Easily. The runes of fate which have been the central story line of eq2, including the giant apocalypse calender which you can view in palace of the awakened shows the symbol of the Order of the Rime. This symbol and lore has been with us since EOF(possibly kos?). Vhalen was still writing the finite details of lore for this game up to and including TSO. The sentinals fate lore is based on his story and timeline.</p><p>Now I dont know if vhalen intended for the fars seas trader to remove the isles, but it is clear by his post the far seas trader have a much larger agenda and a much more secretive dealings. He easily eluded to the fars seas trader having a much more dynamic impact on lore in the future and he was "certain" we would see the other fars seas isles open up in the future. This never was intended to be some game based faction w/o a story.</p>

[Anestacia]

<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span style="font-size: 12px; color: #000000;">I know what you will say, "they could fix it"... they could really, fix a set-up that was designed around people spending about 10hrs in the multiple zones, befor heading out to Antonica/CL? Those areas are too cut-up and too small to really be fixed without a MAJOR overhaul, one wich in reality the EQ2 devs nolonger have the resources to pull off.</span></blockquote><p>Really? Because once you hit level 10 on the starting isles you are set for Antonica and CL. The sub zone content around Freeport and Qeynos is largely <10 with the exception Oakmyst Forest, Graveyard and the sewer systems which can lead into the 20's as well. Antonica and CL start at 10 soooo really there is no reason you cant hit the Isles, level to 10, go to the city, buy a house and head to Antonica and CL directly if you want to. I know I did on multiple toons and very recently with new toons on other servers as a test. But alas . . </p><p>As for a business decision - When an overwhelming response from your players says, dont do it, we like the Isles, why upset your customers just because you think this new shiny thing is better? Makes no sense to me, nor will it ever quite possibly.</p></blockquote><p>Lol at overwhelming response from your player base. Are you serious? You realize that the starter isle thread which consist of the same posters posting ad naseum is not even that large of a thread compared to many of the other hot issue threads. Remember that thread has been up for over a month and hasnt broken 70 pages. Furthermore the doom and gloom people saying the forums will be overrun with people complaining about the isles? Where is that thread? News flash: It doesnt exist.</p><p>The fact is ALOT of people didnt like the isles. Just read the new player forums or the trial forums there is ALOT of complaints about the isles. The truth of the matter is the majority of the player base could care less about the isles.</p></blockquote><p>And this about sums it up tbh.  Part of me will miss the isles.  I started on the Far Journey 6 years ago so it does hold memories for me.  However, to todays standards, the isles were bad.  People can gloss it up as much as they like, but it gave a poor game experience for the majority ( I am not saying ALL) of new players. </p><p>Also, people saying "Oh Kelethin sucks" and "Neriak's too laggy" etc, maybe to you.  Kelethin is my personal favorite city and starting area.  The set up is nice and not as confusing as people go on about imo.  Gorowyn is my personal least favorite but I can recognize that it IS a good new player experience....actually probably the best one in a lot of ways.</p>

[Rezikai]

<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There's no way he would have done this. This game's lore has been planned out without him since the Order of Rime came out.</p></blockquote><p><span style="text-decoration: line-through;"><strong>This is COMPLETELY untrue. It funny how this thread from 2007 starts off with a dev correcting your bad information. Vhalen already created a large portion of the lore for Velious and the Order of Rime. Yes Vhalen created the order of Rime lore.</strong></span></p><p><strong><em>How can I prove that? Easily. The runes of fate which have been the central story line of eq2, including the giant apocalypse calender which you can view in palace of the awakened shows the symbol of the Order of the Rime. This symbol and lore has been with us since EOF(possibly kos?). Vhalen was still writing the finite details of lore for this game up to and including TSO. The sentinals fate lore is based on his story and timeline.</em></strong></p><p>Now I dont know if vhalen intended for the fars seas trader to remove the isles, but it is clear by his post the far seas trader have a much larger agenda and a much more secretive dealings. He easily eluded to the fars seas trader having a much more dynamic impact on lore in the future and he was "certain" we would see the other fars seas isles open up in the future. This never was intended to be some game based faction w/o a story.</p></blockquote><p>The current devs just dashed and twisted some of the history for storytelling, Vhalen's told us that the Order of the Rime was new lore and he would enjoy learning of it as we do...</p><p>While i do see the correlation of similar symbols I think its just the current devs using runes for their own purposes of story telling while not totally changing the timeline. Yes Vellious symbols may be used ,.. Yes the old Giants from Vellious may be some of the Order of the Rime, however the Order of the Rimes' double sunburst symbol actually doenst appear on either of the doomsday clocks.</p><p>                                      <img src="http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/001/746/820.JPG" width="150" height="150" />                    <img src="http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/001/746/822.JPG" width="150" height="150" /></p><p>The everquest universal timeline was a massive undertaking he made and he may have wanted part of it known and others not, removal of the isles? I doubt he would have taken the time to put that into the timeline as technichally they still exist in the lore of the game. What I think is best to think is that in the grand scheme of the games lore they still exist, and sadly we cant go there now. Much like the Forbidden Forest or the Phantom Isle. The lore he and others created in the timeline seem to be what the current crew are following so the upcoming lore we get probably was his weaving of plot devices and historical hooks back into eq1. However current lateral movements such as the Rime are something the current project devs can do and still follow that flow.</p>

[Kander]

<p><cite>Rezikai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There's no way he would have done this. This game's lore has been planned out without him since the Order of Rime came out.</p></blockquote><p><span style="text-decoration: line-through;"><strong>This is COMPLETELY untrue. It funny how this thread from 2007 starts off with a dev correcting your bad information. Vhalen already created a large portion of the lore for Velious and the Order of Rime. Yes Vhalen created the order of Rime lore.</strong></span></p><p><strong><em>How can I prove that? Easily. The runes of fate which have been the central story line of eq2, including the giant apocalypse calender which you can view in palace of the awakened shows the symbol of the Order of the Rime. This symbol and lore has been with us since EOF(possibly kos?). Vhalen was still writing the finite details of lore for this game up to and including TSO. The sentinals fate lore is based on his story and timeline.</em></strong></p><p>Now I dont know if vhalen intended for the fars seas trader to remove the isles, but it is clear by his post the far seas trader have a much larger agenda and a much more secretive dealings. He easily eluded to the fars seas trader having a much more dynamic impact on lore in the future and he was "certain" we would see the other fars seas isles open up in the future. This never was intended to be some game based faction w/o a story.</p></blockquote><p>The current devs just dashed and twisted some of the history for storytelling, Vhalen's told us that the Order of the Rime was new lore and he would enjoy learning of it as we do...</p><p>While i do see the correlation of similar symbols I think its just the current devs using runes for their own purposes of story telling while not totally changing the timeline. Yes Vellious symbols may be used ,.. Yes the old Giants from Vellious may be some of the Order of the Rime, however the Order of the Rimes' double sunburst symbol actually doenst appear on either of the doomsday clocks.</p><p>                                      <img src="http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/001/746/820.JPG" width="150" height="150" />                    <img src="http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/001/746/822.JPG" width="150" height="150" /></p><p>The everquest universal timeline was a massive undertaking he made and he may have wanted part of it known and others not, removal of the isles? I doubt he would have taken the time to put that into the timeline as technichally they still exist in the lore of the game. What I think is best to think is that in the grand scheme of the games lore they still exist, and sadly we cant go there now. Much like the Forbidden Forest or the Phantom Isle. The lore he and others created in the timeline seem to be what the current crew are following so the upcoming lore we get probably was his weaving of plot devices and historical hooks back into eq1. However current lateral movements such as the Rime are something the current project devs can do and still follow that flow.</p></blockquote><p>Without giving too much (or anything) away. The Order of Rime still have a large part to play in the very near future. However, Kraytoc Killingfrost and his brethren will not be playing the part that they believe they will be playing.</p>

[Vortexelemental]

<p><cite>Rezikai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There's no way he would have done this. This game's lore has been planned out without him since the Order of Rime came out.</p></blockquote><p><span style="text-decoration: line-through;"><strong>This is COMPLETELY untrue. It funny how this thread from 2007 starts off with a dev correcting your bad information. Vhalen already created a large portion of the lore for Velious and the Order of Rime. Yes Vhalen created the order of Rime lore.</strong></span></p><p><strong><em>How can I prove that? Easily. The runes of fate which have been the central story line of eq2, including the giant apocalypse calender which you can view in palace of the awakened shows the symbol of the Order of the Rime. This symbol and lore has been with us since EOF(possibly kos?). Vhalen was still writing the finite details of lore for this game up to and including TSO. The sentinals fate lore is based on his story and timeline.</em></strong></p><p>Now I dont know if vhalen intended for the fars seas trader to remove the isles, but it is clear by his post the far seas trader have a much larger agenda and a much more secretive dealings. He easily eluded to the fars seas trader having a much more dynamic impact on lore in the future and he was "certain" we would see the other fars seas isles open up in the future. This never was intended to be some game based faction w/o a story.</p></blockquote><p>The current devs just dashed and twisted some of the history for storytelling, Vhalen's told us that the Order of the Rime was new lore and he would enjoy learning of it as we do...</p><p>While i do see the correlation of similar symbols I think its just the current devs using runes for their own purposes of story telling while not totally changing the timeline. Yes Vellious symbols may be used ,.. Yes the old Giants from Vellious may be some of the Order of the Rime, however the Order of the Rimes' double sunburst symbol actually doenst appear on either of the doomsday clocks.</p><p>                                      <img src="http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/001/746/820.JPG" width="150" height="150" />                    <img src="http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/001/746/822.JPG" width="150" height="150" /></p><p>The everquest universal timeline was a massive undertaking he made and he may have wanted part of it known and others not, removal of the isles? I doubt he would have taken the time to put that into the timeline as technichally they still exist in the lore of the game. What I think is best to think is that in the grand scheme of the games lore they still exist, and sadly we cant go there now. Much like the Forbidden Forest or the Phantom Isle. The lore he and others created in the timeline seem to be what the current crew are following so the upcoming lore we get probably was his weaving of plot devices and historical hooks back into eq1. However current lateral movements such as the Rime are something the current project devs can do and still follow that flow.</p></blockquote><p><img src="http://api.ning.com/files/uXbaSPPwIdEx0kl0yKFP-gKlLlU*A82eWIL2aaTkWj8_/pwned.jpg" width="640" height="466" /></p>

[Rezikai]

<p><cite>Vortexelemental@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rezikai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There's no way he would have done this. This game's lore has been planned out without him since the Order of Rime came out.</p></blockquote><p><span style="text-decoration: line-through;"><strong>This is COMPLETELY untrue. It funny how this thread from 2007 starts off with a dev correcting your bad information. Vhalen already created a large portion of the lore for Velious and the Order of Rime. Yes Vhalen created the order of Rime lore.</strong></span></p><p><strong><em>How can I prove that? Easily. The runes of fate which have been the central story line of eq2, including the giant apocalypse calender which you can view in palace of the awakened shows the symbol of the Order of the Rime. This symbol and lore has been with us since EOF(possibly kos?). Vhalen was still writing the finite details of lore for this game up to and including TSO. The sentinals fate lore is based on his story and timeline.</em></strong></p><p>Now I dont know if vhalen intended for the fars seas trader to remove the isles, but it is clear by his post the far seas trader have a much larger agenda and a much more secretive dealings. He easily eluded to the fars seas trader having a much more dynamic impact on lore in the future and he was "certain" we would see the other fars seas isles open up in the future. This never was intended to be some game based faction w/o a story.</p></blockquote><p>The current devs just dashed and twisted some of the history for storytelling, Vhalen's told us that the Order of the Rime was new lore and he would enjoy learning of it as we do...</p><p>While i do see the correlation of similar symbols I think its just the current devs using runes for their own purposes of story telling while not totally changing the timeline. Yes Vellious symbols may be used ,.. Yes the old Giants from Vellious may be some of the Order of the Rime, however the Order of the Rimes' double sunburst symbol actually doenst appear on either of the doomsday clocks.</p><p>                                      <img src="http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/001/746/820.JPG" width="150" height="150" />                    <img src="http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/001/746/822.JPG" width="150" height="150" /></p><p>The everquest universal timeline was a massive undertaking he made and he may have wanted part of it known and others not, removal of the isles? I doubt he would have taken the time to put that into the timeline as technichally they still exist in the lore of the game. What I think is best to think is that in the grand scheme of the games lore they still exist, and sadly we cant go there now. Much like the Forbidden Forest or the Phantom Isle. The lore he and others created in the timeline seem to be what the current crew are following so the upcoming lore we get probably was his weaving of plot devices and historical hooks back into eq1. However current lateral movements such as the Rime are something the current project devs can do and still follow that flow.</p></blockquote><p><img src="http://api.ning.com/files/uXbaSPPwIdEx0kl0yKFP-gKlLlU*A82eWIL2aaTkWj8_/pwned.jpg" width="640" height="466" /></p></blockquote><p>heh no need to get on Gungo for it.. wild speculation and assumptions out the yang is 1/2 of what keeps us going in this forum. So while imo off, his enthusiasm is nice.</p>

[Anestacia]

<p><cite>Rezikai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Vortexelemental@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rezikai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There's no way he would have done this. This game's lore has been planned out without him since the Order of Rime came out.</p></blockquote><p><span style="text-decoration: line-through;"><strong>This is COMPLETELY untrue. It funny how this thread from 2007 starts off with a dev correcting your bad information. Vhalen already created a large portion of the lore for Velious and the Order of Rime. Yes Vhalen created the order of Rime lore.</strong></span></p><p><strong><em>How can I prove that? Easily. The runes of fate which have been the central story line of eq2, including the giant apocalypse calender which you can view in palace of the awakened shows the symbol of the Order of the Rime. This symbol and lore has been with us since EOF(possibly kos?). Vhalen was still writing the finite details of lore for this game up to and including TSO. The sentinals fate lore is based on his story and timeline.</em></strong></p><p>Now I dont know if vhalen intended for the fars seas trader to remove the isles, but it is clear by his post the far seas trader have a much larger agenda and a much more secretive dealings. He easily eluded to the fars seas trader having a much more dynamic impact on lore in the future and he was "certain" we would see the other fars seas isles open up in the future. This never was intended to be some game based faction w/o a story.</p></blockquote><p>The current devs just dashed and twisted some of the history for storytelling, Vhalen's told us that the Order of the Rime was new lore and he would enjoy learning of it as we do...</p><p>While i do see the correlation of similar symbols I think its just the current devs using runes for their own purposes of story telling while not totally changing the timeline. Yes Vellious symbols may be used ,.. Yes the old Giants from Vellious may be some of the Order of the Rime, however the Order of the Rimes' double sunburst symbol actually doenst appear on either of the doomsday clocks.</p><p>                                      <img src="http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/001/746/820.JPG" width="150" height="150" />                    <img src="http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/001/746/822.JPG" width="150" height="150" /></p><p>The everquest universal timeline was a massive undertaking he made and he may have wanted part of it known and others not, removal of the isles? I doubt he would have taken the time to put that into the timeline as technichally they still exist in the lore of the game. What I think is best to think is that in the grand scheme of the games lore they still exist, and sadly we cant go there now. Much like the Forbidden Forest or the Phantom Isle. The lore he and others created in the timeline seem to be what the current crew are following so the upcoming lore we get probably was his weaving of plot devices and historical hooks back into eq1. However current lateral movements such as the Rime are something the current project devs can do and still follow that flow.</p></blockquote><p><img src="http://api.ning.com/files/uXbaSPPwIdEx0kl0yKFP-gKlLlU*A82eWIL2aaTkWj8_/pwned.jpg" width="640" height="466" /></p></blockquote><p>heh no need to get on Gungo for it.. wild speculation and assumptions out the yang is 1/2 of what keeps us going in this forum. So while imo off, his enthusiasm is nice.</p></blockquote><p>At least he is offering constructive suggestions instead of just trolling with the same old crap all the time like you (Vortex) do.</p>