Sorry for the inconvience.... EXCUSE ME! [Archive]

Kimage

09-04-2007, 02:11 PM

On Friday after the servers came back up I had a friend of mine who had sent me some alkali loam for some T6 Adept 3s. I made them - went to the spires to deliver, zone to TT and BAM! at 4:30 Pacific Nektulos Crashes. Wait and wait for servers to come up - ok fine - yea they got issues - ok whatever - its technology - it happens right. about 7:00 pm Nek comes back up - go to deliever those Adept 3's and WHAT THEY ARE GONE! ok Bug and Petition for the loam back so I can at least make the spells again right- what do I get - Sorry for the inconvience but we aren't going to refund it back to you. I send them logs of the missing items - that hey I got them - I even still have the mail in my mail box of her sending me the rares and the requested spells to be made ... same response. She bought those rares - she sent petition - they told her the same thing. Not even going to refund her the plat - because well if you reset the servers your plat shoudl be back to what it was at 7am Pacific right? WRONG! The plat is gone also - and they are not refunding it either.Guildie bought a bunch of resist armor on the broker during that breif time and also lost a few plat and the armor - they are niether refunding her the plat or the armor. Same thing Plat gone - items gone. Ok so because SOE had gremlins in the servers on Friday they are just saying oops sorry for your lost platage and lost items? We are proveing to SOE that these items were bought , crafted, etc. and they will not refund us the items?Can we get an explaination of why the refunds are not happening? Why even have a section in the petition for the Character Rollback issue?

Freliant

09-04-2007, 02:25 PM

Way too many things went wrong on that day for them to look into them on an individual basis. Be happy you have your character back at all and move on. (Sorry to put it bluntly)

BossCre

09-04-2007, 02:26 PM

Because it makes people feel all warm and fuzzy to see that they're thinking about helping people in that fashion, perhaps?I lost the money from a couple of sales and the items that sold (acquired before the roll-back), but in these cases, I've learned not to really try to get them back. All you will get is a headache and more generated anger toward Sony Online Entertainment's out-sourced help service if you try. Sometimes, if you add that you are not satisfied at all with their performance and that you don't feel the issue is resolved and that you got horrible customer service and will be reporting it, they sometimes bend...not always, but sometimes. There was a case where some quest items were eaten by a quest without quest credit from an officer in my guild. I believe it was the Mistmoore shield heritage quest quite awhile before they changed it to take less. She petitioned that she wanted the items returned, because they were really expensive to make. They told her "no" and that everything was working as intended, even though it ate the items without credit. She petitioned again with her dissatisfaction in how poorly the first GM handled it, and PRESTO! They reimbursed her the items.Who knows? Maybe if you petition again with your dissatisfaction, they might just give it back. Again, don't try too hard, though. I once got threatened with an account ban for my persistance when a zone bugged out and cheated some people in my guild out of an update.

Armironhead

09-04-2007, 02:46 PM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote>Way too many things went wrong on that day for them to look into them on an individual basis. Be happy you have your character back at all and move on. (Sorry to put it bluntly)</blockquote>I dont know why people let them get away with lossy customer service and buggy game platforms. Would you stand for it if was your car or tv that was screwed up? Or would you be demanding that the issue be fixed and if it was not then your money returned? The idea that we should just be happy that they didnt totally screw everything up is just not what should be expected from modern day corporation. I recognize that this is "software" that we are talking about and we have been conditioned to accept alot of crap with the subsequent updates and the like -- but still when the company screws up the company should go the extra mile to fix things like the op's problem. It may take them awhile, but hey thats the difference between good customer service and bad.

Andok

09-04-2007, 02:53 PM

I don't understand why so many people have lost things with the rollback. If they restored data to a time before you received the items/money, then the person who sent it should still have it. It appears that they are not backing up everything, so some stuff is being lost on restores.I don't mind losing out on playtime, but I would be pretty angry if I lost an item like that.

Freliant

09-04-2007, 02:54 PM

<cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote>Way too many things went wrong on that day for them to look into them on an individual basis. Be happy you have your character back at all and move on. (Sorry to put it bluntly)</blockquote>I dont know why people let them get away with lossy customer service and buggy game platforms. Would you stand for it if was your car or tv that was screwed up? Or would you be demanding that the issue be fixed and if it was not then your money returned? The idea that we should just be happy that they didnt totally screw everything up is just not what should be expected from modern day corporation. I recognize that this is "software" that we are talking about and we have been conditioned to accept alot of crap with the subsequent updates and the like -- but still when the company screws up the company should go the extra mile to fix things like the op's problem. It may take them awhile, but hey thats the difference between good customer service and bad.</blockquote>As far as MMOs are concerned, I am willing to venture that SOE has one of the best customer support teams out there. The problem is that MMOs are intristically unstable because they are constantly changing. If this was a never changing product, like a car, then yes, I would see your point. But as it stands, like any other MMOs there are going to be hicups... and when the hicup was as bad as what happened on friday, you have to be lucky you didn't loost more than a few hours worth of work. Its just how its handled.As for getting items back, I can see why they would be very hessitant. Should they have looked at the records... probably, but we don't know how many of those records are actually recoverable after a rollback of that magnitude.

Kimage

09-04-2007, 02:56 PM

I understand that all of thier logs may have gone poof and that they are concerned with people haveing "doctored" logs when they send them in through the petition system - but still. I know my friend who bought the loams for those spells isnt' made of plat. What I'm concerned with is the fact that if servers where reset to 7am that morning - all of our plat and the like should have also been returned. Also why even have an option in the petition system for Char Roll back issues - if they are not even going to fix the problems - and tell us to bad so sad? Also Iam thankful that all my toons where there - I know people who are still waiting on toons to be back on char select. ( one of them lost his lvl 30 zerker / 70 tailor )

Zard

09-04-2007, 03:07 PM

I am guessing that the reason SOE will not re-imburse items that were "lost in the mail" is due to the mail system not having proper logging associated with it so they have no real evidence that the items were actually sent and not received. Quest turn-ins and rewards, bank and player transactions, on the other hand, are (probably) properly logged so they have the evidence should they take the time to review it and take appropriate action. I am not trying to make excuses for inadequate logging. I am just suggesting possible reasoning behind why they might not re-imburse you.

Gnobrin

09-04-2007, 03:11 PM

Please folks, keep it constructive. The GM's do what they can, when they can. If you have any issue in regards to the service you are granted, please ask to speak to the lead in charge. If this thread deteriorates further into a CS rant-fest, it'll be locked and tossed. Please, just keep it clean and polite.~Gnobrin!

Saihung23

09-04-2007, 03:17 PM

Seffrid

09-04-2007, 03:30 PM

Given the severity of the losses experienced across the board despite a rollback, and the length of the downtime (in the case of Splitpaw the server was actually up frustratingly but the login server being tied to Runnyeye was down from early evening Friday to early afternoon Saturday UK time), I'm just amazed that on checking the Developers Log for the first time since then I find absolutely no public statement relating to what went wrong and what is being done about it. It's like it never happened!I have no issue with SOE's customer support team, not only are they the best in the business and have been since I first played EQ in '98 (beta), but they kept us fully informed of what was going on during the downtime - something always requested and rarely done. Qudos to them for that.However, the silence from "higher-up" since then has been both unacceptable and very unusual, given the tendency for both Scott and Smed to get stuck in when the going gets rough as it assuredly did last weekend. Let's hope they're still working on an appropriate announcement. I sure hope so. But it ought to be soon.

Quda

09-04-2007, 03:47 PM

Well, trying to keep this contrustive, I would like to know what exactly is a roll back.Because this is what I have learned.Power leveled an alt of a friend. Gained 10 levels, she went to the broker bought some new gear, put them on, and even showed them off.Roll back happened.She is now level 4, no new gear, no money that she had sent to her toon a week ago. Quests completed, but no AA.It looks like the only thing rolled back was the XP.So what exactly is a roll back?

secret666

09-04-2007, 03:57 PM

<cite>Dahgoo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>I once got threatened with an account ban for my persistance when a zone bugged out and cheated some people in my guild out of an update.</blockquote>My response would be "Fine ban me if you are unwilling to fix the problem"If they screw up, THEY fix it end of story!The OP should carry on with his quest to be reimbursed. SoE has done things like this MANY times in EQ1 and should not be aloud to replicate this crap!

Kendricke

09-04-2007, 04:13 PM

<cite>secret666 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dahgoo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>I once got threatened with an account ban for my persistance when a zone bugged out and cheated some people in my guild out of an update.</blockquote>My response would be "Fine ban me if you are unwilling to fix the problem"If they screw up, THEY fix it end of story!The OP should carry on with his quest to be reimbursed. SoE has done things like this MANY times in EQ1 and should not be aloud to replicate this crap!</blockquote>Years ago in college I worked at an electronics store. A person walked in and attempted to convince me that an item he purchased wasn't working and I should replace it. I asked for a receipt (it wasn't a trivial item) and worked as best I could to help him out. Now, I would have even gone over and above store policy to help the guy had he remained calm and worked with me on it. However, from the first moment he opened his mouth till the moment we had security escort him from the store, he was rude, offensive, belligerent, and threatening. I'm not saying that any of you have been rude or offensive in your dealings with customer service here, only that it might not be a bad idea to re-examine the attitude to which you approach the people who have the power to help you out. Many times we hear on the forums about how "CS warned me for no real reason!!!11!!" only to find out more of the story later when we realize that the original petitioner was rude, offensive, belligerent, or similarly negative in their communications. Did that happen here? Who knows. I sure don't. I do know that there's always two sides to every story and since Customer Service can't publically state their story within these forums, I accept that any Customer Service complaints I hear here are always necessarily one-sided and biased. Even if the story told to us here was 100% accurate and spot on (a rarity on these forums, to be certain), we can't really know that here, now can we?

Jesdyr

09-04-2007, 04:45 PM

<cite>Andok wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't understand why so many people have lost things with the rollback. If they restored data to a time before you received the items/money, then the person who sent it should still have it. It appears that they are not backing up everything, so some stuff is being lost on restores.</blockquote>Best guess here .. Some servers were not rolled back (at least that was what I had last seen). From what was happening, it seems they have the game data split up into multiple databases. Some of this seems to have been either readonly or the data was locked and inserts/updates were being blocked. Since most data is cached by the servers you would be able to play normally but some weirdness would happen on zoning between servers. If you shut off the servers "most" things would not be saved. The data that was saved was not reverted, however the data that deals with your character was never saved to begin with. They could also have only rolled back some databases/tables and left the others. It is really hard to understand what happened without knowing exactly how the game was designed.

Kimage

09-04-2007, 05:00 PM

<cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please folks, keep it constructive. The GM's do what they can, when they can. If you have any issue in regards to the service you are granted, please ask to speak to the lead in charge. If this thread deteriorates further into a CS rant-fest, it'll be locked and tossed. Please, just keep it clean and polite.~Gnobrin!</blockquote> I dont mean any disrespect and I know that they are working very hard and dont mean to bash on them abou this. I just cant get a straight answer as to WHY they cant refund us what was truely lost. If everything was returned to the way it was at 7am Pacific - then wouldn't it be logical that even though during the brief time it was up - I accepted the items in the mail - made the spells - that after the roll back to 7am that the loam should then still be in the mailbox? I understand it was a HORRIBLE day for you guys and I dont wish that on my worst enemy but this defiles all logic - and CS wont help. We are being told tough. Is that really right? in the interest of customer service? I have sent 3 petitions - and on the last one I was told if I petition again I could be taking a vacation. All I'm asking is that if it was truely rolled back to 7am Pacific that it be rolled back to how it was. I understand those pesky gremlins really did a number to the servers. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Kimage

09-04-2007, 05:02 PM

Kimage

09-04-2007, 05:08 PM

<cite>Kendricke wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>secret666 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dahgoo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>I once got threatened with an account ban for my persistance when a zone bugged out and cheated some people in my guild out of an update.</blockquote>My response would be "Fine ban me if you are unwilling to fix the problem"If they screw up, THEY fix it end of story!The OP should carry on with his quest to be reimbursed. SoE has done things like this MANY times in EQ1 and should not be aloud to replicate this crap!</blockquote>Years ago in college I worked at an electronics store. A person walked in and attempted to convince me that an item he purchased wasn't working and I should replace it. I asked for a receipt (it wasn't a trivial item) and worked as best I could to help him out. Now, I would have even gone over and above store policy to help the guy had he remained calm and worked with me on it. However, from the first moment he opened his mouth till the moment we had security escort him from the store, he was rude, offensive, belligerent, and threatening. I'm not saying that any of you have been rude or offensive in your dealings with customer service here, only that it might not be a bad idea to re-examine the attitude to which you approach the people who have the power to help you out. Many times we hear on the forums about how "CS warned me for no real reason!!!11!!" only to find out more of the story later when we realize that the original petitioner was rude, offensive, belligerent, or similarly negative in their communications. Did that happen here? Who knows. I sure don't. I do know that there's always two sides to every story and since Customer Service can't publically state their story within these forums, I accept that any Customer Service complaints I hear here are always necessarily one-sided and biased. Even if the story told to us here was 100% accurate and spot on (a rarity on these forums, to be certain), we can't really know that here, now can we? </blockquote> Kend I fully understand the difficulty of working in CS. I personally did so for many years - and in a manner of speaking still do. I was very careful in the original petition to word things technically and specifically as to what was missing and what I would like replaced. The reply was simply - why cant you replace my items - the following are my logs - please replace them so I can deliever on the order that was placed with my alchy. I then was sent a response saying sorry for the invconvience please do not send any more petitions on this matter or we will be forced to take action against your account. ( or some words like that - ie: you may be taking a vacation from the game. ) I just received a customer service questionare and will simply fill it out. If I was being a full on [Removed for Content] then ya then I can understand it - I have been with CS before and take credit and acccepted the repocutions ( spelling ) of that incident. This time however Ihave not -

Cadori Seraphim

09-04-2007, 05:48 PM

Wow how crappy. Of course this is the customer service I actually expect from SOE, coming from EQ1 and how crappy it was there.Thing is, for every single good customer service rep they have - there are 20 bad ones that just dont give a crap and are actually quite rude (or so this is how it seems)Lately anymore its all about how much money they can squeeze out of us, and as long as we are addicted and continue to pay - it doesn't matter. They will continue to do what they want as they always have.I really feel for ya and cant believe they threatened your account with a *vacation* for trying to get help, it must suck to be in that position.

Gnobrin

09-04-2007, 06:22 PM

Sorry for the confusion, all. Rollback is a matter of dropping the database back to a certain point. Any information between that rollback and the time you may of actually left the game is lost. If the fdatabase is set back in such a way, the information is simply not there to then be reviewed to then be assisted, it is as if you had not gained that progression at all. If there's ANY possible log to show of such a progression, I trust the CS team to be able to assist you in any possible way. If there is no log, there is simply no way to help.~Gnobrin!

Andok

09-04-2007, 06:35 PM

<cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sorry for the confusion, all. Rollback is a matter of dropping the database back to a certain point. Any information between that rollback and the time you may of actually left the game is lost. If the fdatabase is set back in such a way, the information is simply not there to then be reviewed to then be assisted, it is as if you had not gained that progression at all. If there's ANY possible log to show of such a progression, I trust the CS team to be able to assist you in any possible way. If there is no log, there is simply no way to help.~Gnobrin!</blockquote>Does that database include all aspects of the game (i.e. a snapshot of the game at a specific time, and includes mail transactions, quest progress, items, etc)? If so, there are some people that are being ‘less than honest’ to me about item loss, or something went wrong on the restore.(BTW, the rollback worked fine for my characters)

Lord Eggnopol

09-07-2007, 01:40 PM

Been a couple days now and was wondering if you got your issue resolved?I had the same problem on Nektulos Server. The servers were live on Friday 8-31-07 at 5pm my time and in that time had purchased some items from the city merchant. When the server went back down for 3 hours then up again that same night when i logged back on my items were gone and so was the status items. I also petitioned and was told "Sorry for the inconvenience... but the server was rolled back to 7am PST" reply that they have copy and pasted. Then the GM closed the petition. There was no give me more information or anything just closed it. I then re-petitioned again but this time I went into my log copy & pasted the exact time I logged in, then did the same for the items i purchased. I then looked for when the server went down and then came back up again. I copied it all including the (im guessing) log number on the left. Then nicely put that I don't have these items or the status. It finally got escalated to a Sr. GM and he looked my information over and confirmed it and i got my items back.Again i was frustrated at first but thank you EQ2's GM team and GM Vensid. Thank you so much for getting this resolved.

Spyderbite

09-07-2007, 02:10 PM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite>As far as MMOs are concerned, I am willing to venture that SOE has one of the best customer support teams out there.</blockquote>QFT....Of all the CS I've dealt with in MMO's, Sony has by far the best. And, this is coming from somebody who is a career CS person in the technology field.Not directing this statement at the OP directly.. but people really have to stop waiving the "bad customer support finger" around when they don't get their way. Many of the blunt "Sorry, we're unable to help you with that" are caused by the frequency of frivolous complaints. So when a valid request gets denied.. one can only blame his/her peers at that point and move on. This applies to all customer service issues.. not just here in EQ2. E.g. there's a reason Walmart doesn't take returns anymore without a receipt. Too many 20 year old VHS players returned I suppose. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Kenban

09-07-2007, 02:54 PM

My understanding of the setup of EQ2 is that there are certain backend resources which are shared between servers. My guess is this includes at the least the mail service. I would assume the actual character data is stored on the server and not on the shared backend resource. If the servers were rolled back but the backend was not you would end up with these kinds of problems. Another possibility is that the databases in which the mail and broker data is stored was not rolled back along with everything else. Either way its obvious that something was not rolled back when the rest of the data was. It would be one thing if the transactions rolled back as if they never happened but thats not what was done. Oh one thing that did come up during the problems were that two European servers shared backend resources with two servers in the US. Does anyone remember which servers it was in the US that had these shared resources and are the same servers in which people lost items/plat?

StormCinder

09-07-2007, 04:14 PM

<cite>Kenban wrote:</cite><blockquote>My understanding of the setup of EQ2 is that there are certain backend resources which are shared between servers. My guess is this includes at the least the mail service. I would assume the actual character data is stored on the server and not on the shared backend resource. If the servers were rolled back but the backend was not you would end up with these kinds of problems. Another possibility is that the databases in which the mail and broker data is stored was not rolled back along with everything else.Either way its obvious that something was not rolled back when the rest of the data was. It would be one thing if the transactions rolled back as if they never happened but thats not what was done.Oh one thing that did come up during the problems were that two European servers shared backend resources with two servers in the US. Does anyone remember which servers it was in the US that had these shared resources and are the same servers in which people lost items/plat?</blockquote>That's the part I was stumped on. The OP says that the sent mail (which was sent after 7am) 'envelope' was still in his mailbox, while all other aspects of the toon (minus the items in question) were 'rolled-back.'I agree that this appears to be a case of certain servers being rolled-back while others were not. I assume those mail messages have time/date stamps on them and seem easy enough to track down. But I'm not an SOE db admin, so I don't know.SC

09-07-2007, 04:39 PM

Maybe they are running low on plat to refund with. they should call gmwerker! I KID!

Arinwulf

09-07-2007, 05:49 PM

If you played EQ1 and SWG, you know that SOE's CS policy is that players are dirty liars and there is nothing they can say that will make CS believe them, so there will never be any redress for problems caused by SOE. Some of the biggest reasons people will never again play a SOE product is it's infamous CS which is only second to DMV clerks in helpfulness.Sorry redname, but this is as polite as your CS deserves. You want to fix it? Change your policies.

StormCinder

09-07-2007, 10:35 PM

<cite>Arinwulf wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you played EQ1 and SWG, you know that SOE's CS policy is that players are dirty liars (not true) and there is nothing they can say that will make CS believe them (also not true), so there will never be any redress for problems caused by SOE (ditto). Some of the biggest reasons people will never again play a SOE product is it's infamous CS (still not true) which is only second to DMV clerks in helpfulness (have you been to the DMV lately...very automated...in and out in 5 minutes with eye exam and photo--speaks to your ignorance).Sorry redname, but this is as polite as your CS deserves (very not true). You want to fix it? Change your policies (seems A-OK...what's to change?).</blockquote>

Cadori Seraphim

09-07-2007, 10:42 PM

<cite>StormCinder wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Arinwulf wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you played EQ1 and SWG, you know that SOE's CS policy is that players are dirty liars (not true) and there is nothing they can say that will make CS believe them (also not true), so there will never be any redress for problems caused by SOE (ditto). Some of the biggest reasons people will never again play a SOE product is it's infamous CS (still not true) which is only second to DMV clerks in helpfulness (have you been to the DMV lately...very automated...in and out in 5 minutes with eye exam and photo--speaks to your ignorance).Sorry redname, but this is as polite as your CS deserves (very not true). You want to fix it? Change your policies (seems A-OK...what's to change?).</blockquote></blockquote>The fact that you may have gotten good customer service from SOE in any of their games does not invalidate the fact that there ARE crappy SOE CS Reps. What the above poster said that you chose to reply on is right on as far as ALL of my experiences have been with the SOE customer service. In EQ1, SWG and now EQ2. Why do I still play? Well much like everyone else its an addicting game and the overall fun factor (for me) outweighs the crappy customer service, so far.So whats untrue to you may not be untrue to someone else.

Wingrider01

09-07-2007, 10:57 PM

<cite>Cadori Seraphim wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>StormCinder wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Arinwulf wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you played EQ1 and SWG, you know that SOE's CS policy is that players are dirty liars (not true) and there is nothing they can say that will make CS believe them (also not true), so there will never be any redress for problems caused by SOE (ditto). Some of the biggest reasons people will never again play a SOE product is it's infamous CS (still not true) which is only second to DMV clerks in helpfulness (have you been to the DMV lately...very automated...in and out in 5 minutes with eye exam and photo--speaks to your ignorance).Sorry redname, but this is as polite as your CS deserves (very not true). You want to fix it? Change your policies (seems A-OK...what's to change?).</blockquote></blockquote>The fact that you may have gotten good customer service from SOE in any of their games does not invalidate the fact that there ARE crappy SOE CS Reps. What the above poster said that you chose to reply on is right on as far as ALL of my experiences have been with the SOE customer service. In EQ1, SWG and now EQ2. Why do I still play? Well much like everyone else its an addicting game and the overall fun factor (for me) outweighs the crappy customer service, so far.So whats untrue to you may not be untrue to someone else.</blockquote>and bad CS expierences are unique to SoE and have never occurred in any other aspect of the day to day expierence in life? Ever dealt with comcast, charter, or most of the other cable companies CS - rofl they wrote the book on bad cs. Good or Bad posts on CS is in the eye of the poster - get everything you want from CS the first time and it is tremendous donl;t get what you want or feel that you deserve and it stinks. Count me in on the group that has no issue with their CS - not saying I was always pleased with their decision, but they have always been prompt and courtious (spelling?). Fact of life there are ALWAYS crappy CS Reps no matter who you deal with