New coercer wondering what I'm doing wrong...

[Xenithar]

Been playing as a coercer for a little bit, from level 11 on it started to become very difficult...Breakdown of a typical battle:I mezz something, then charm it, renewing the mezz if needed.I send my pet into battle against something the same level as it (or within one level)Once the pet has got the mob's hate, I root the mob and start nuking. I make sure that the mob I've targeted still hasmy pet as its target.Once the root breaks, the mob immediately ditches my pet and tries to kill me. Thus, I renew my root often.Once the mob is at about 50% hp, my pet breaks charm (almost always). I immediately mezz my target, mezz my ex-pet, and root the mob.I start nuking again. When root becomes available to recast (every 10 seconds or so), i recast it. I renew mezz on my ex-petevery so often.This usually gets me through most fights... unless the root is resisted. If resisted it goes like this:Mob attacks me.I mezz it. (often interrupted). At this point I am down to about 50% hpI run to a safe distance and spam root till it connects.I nuke the mob with my non-DOT spellsIt gets down to about 25% hp and my ex-pet kills me from behind.I revive.I've noticed lately that i can kill mobs easier if I just root them and nuke them, without bothering with a pet... but if i wanted todo that, i would play a wizard.Any suggestions?

[Onathu]

<p>If you don't have Echos of faydwer then you need to get it.  The Achievement tree it provides is basicly mandatory for some classes to be playable, Coercer included.</p><p> Get the Achievement for your Charm and get the charm at Adept 3.  Also spaminate your stun and other abilities so your subjugation is maxed at all times.  When you have the Charm AA, Adept 3 and within 5 of your Max Subjugation charm becomes much more stable.</p>

[wanshu]

Definitely get Adept 3 charm or master if you can afford it.  Big difference in damage.In my experience, you can't use the pet like a conjuror i.e. as a tanking pet.I get a mage pet (Erudite aura sense is handy for finding them) and set it to /pet ranged.  Then I root the mob and largely let the pet nuke - it tends to do more damage anyway.  If the pet melees, it will break the root very quickly.  Also, no DOTs as they will break root too.  Keep stuns in reserve for if root breaks soon after refreshing it and it isn't back up yet.I also have a macro for sending the pet in which basically does a pet attack, pet assist (can't recall the exact commands, it's been a while since I set it up).  This way, I am targeting through my pet.  Then if pet breaks, mob is already rooted, and I am targeting my erstwhile pet.  So stun, re-charm, use pet attack macro.  Pet breaks become a simple matter to handle in soloing situations.Patience is a virtue in playing a coercer.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Nonce70 Coercer - Befallen

[Xas]

The adept 1 worked fine for me with the 5 points in charm AA. After that, I would pick on an encounter with multiples, preferably 3, easier to kill I think. I pull with charm, sic the pet on one of them, kill the other myself, kill the one the pet is on, then finally kill the pet itself. Don't forget to use your stuns now and then, and use HOs.

[spammy]

dont laugh at me... but im a 70 coercer and i cant seem to get /pet range to work..i do it on my necro, but it doesnt seem to want to work on my coercer =/btw, the first 20 levels are extremely tedious as a coercer. they dont rocket through the starting quests like most classes do. if you can get your hand on a coerce master 1 at lvl 20 ( they are fairly cheap these days) that should suffice for a long time to come.

[Encantador]

<p>Good suggestions all. I agree with them all.</p><p>However (lol you knew there would be a but or howeve didn't you ?) IF you truly are new to charming I suggest you start by learning to kill without using a pet. Yes I know its the way a coercer should fight BUT one of the things that a good coercer must do is learn the value of his spells and the priority for casting them. So learn the 'solo a white heroic using App2 spells' method.</p><p>Method ...</p><p>1) Pick a mob</p><p>2) Mez it</p><p>3) Wait for power. Go to 2 if you need more time.</p><p>4) Debuff it without breaking mezz.</p><p>5) Start a HO</p><p>6) Stun the mob</p><p>7) Nuke it</p><p><img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Nuke it or cast debuff to complete HO</p><p>9) go to 2).</p><p>Once you can do this then charm a pet ... put it on ranged and take off the defend options. Insert 5a) tell pet to attack and 8a) tell pet to stop attacking.</p>

[Xenithar]

thanks for all the suggestions everyone!

[Lune]

In regards to /pet ranged, you have to type /pet ranged for every new charm mob that you get.  If it breaks, you have to redo it as well.

[Lord Montague]

<cite>Onathu wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If you don't have Echos of faydwer then you need to get it.  The Achievement tree it provides is basicly mandatory for some classes to be playable, Coercer included.</p></blockquote>Useful to have?  Sure.  Mandatory, doubt it.  It made my soloing while I was leveling coercer easier, but I could've very well lived without it.

[joshshift]

i didnt even use a pet til about level 20.

[spammy]

<cite>Revel@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>In regards to /pet ranged, you have to type /pet ranged for every new charm mob that you get.  If it breaks, you have to redo it as well. </blockquote>ive tried that... it still doesnt seem to work, lol.maybe some pets cant be /pet ranged? lol

[Sarkoris]

<p>I hope you guys don't mind some tips from a Necromancer visiting your forums.</p><p>I would suggest tanking for your pet at the early levels rather than standing back rooting. The simple reason behind this is it is far easier to max out your defence skills when the mobs don't hit as hard than the upper tiers where they can just about one shot you. This will allow you take a few hits in an emergency situation.</p><p>As far as /pet ranged make sure it has  a ranged attack in the first place. Melee mobs would just stand there.</p><p>Sark.</p>

[Shurinow]

<p>If you are going to use a pet, I suggest turning off your Power of Mind buff or it's upgrades.  Spells that buff or cure mental for the group also help your pet break its charm.  They say this was fixed way back with LU #25, but you can still see the buff on the pet's maintained spells bar, so I wouldn't risk it.</p>

[Vonotar]

In strong groups you might want to consider not using a pet, and (instead) holding the mezz in reserve for that moment when your group attracts too many mobs, being able to take as pet the mob that is currently turning your healer into mincemeat is something of a life-saver.

[Encantador]

<cite>Sarkoris wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I hope you guys don't mind some tips from a Necromancer visiting your forums.</p><p>I would suggest tanking for your pet at the early levels rather than standing back rooting. The simple reason behind this is it is far easier to max out your defence skills when the mobs don't hit as hard than the upper tiers where they can just about one shot you. This will allow you take a few hits in an emergency situation.</p><p>As far as /pet ranged make sure it has  a ranged attack in the first place. Melee mobs would just stand there.</p><p>Sark.</p></blockquote><p>For a necromancer with a life tap this is fine. For a summoner with a taunting pet this is fine. For a coercer ? NO. Unless you are a twink with good armour this is very bad. It is also bad because it will teach you bad habits. Getting your defence up is the least of your worries. It will rise fast enough without taking extra risks.</p><p>For necros and beginner coercers, just let me point out that if you are tanking one mob and the pet is hitting it and charm breaks, then you are tanking TWO mobs and are likely to die. With a permanent pet, tanking is much more viable; you are only being interrupted by one mob hitting you.</p>

[Life777form]

Depends if your talking normal mobs or heroic mobs, I can still tank normal up mobs np at lvl 40 some and it is good for lvling defense.  I do most of the normal quests without ever using pet unless there's a fun one right there.

[Magic]

<p>I agree with what was said about melee breaking charm.  Without fighting, charm will usually hold for the full duration.  The charm spell's quality affects the charmed mob's spell damage but not it's melee damage.  Look for mage pets.  The Erudite aura vision will help you to find them.  Mage types glow blue.  Yes, I think that Erudites make the best coercers for that very reason.</p>

[Lord Montague]

<cite>Magical wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I agree with what was said about melee breaking charm.  Without fighting, charm will usually hold for the full duration.  The charm spell's quality affects the charmed mob's spell damage but not it's melee damage.  Look for mage pets.  The Erudite aura vision will help you to find them.  Mage types glow blue.  <b>Yes, I think that Erudites make the best coercers for that very reason.</b></p></blockquote>Just means you can be lazy and not have to look it up online.  *shrugs*

[Awix]

Here's my tactic,It's a little bit slow, but relatively safe.1- charm an appropriate mob2- Send the your charmed mob to attack something and let him grab aggro (a few hit will do)3- dot the mob, the reason for that is that dots will generate less aggro, while casting one of root, debuff, stun and mezz and nuke will generate enough aggro for the mob to target you instead of your charmed mob4- when the mob is at about half health, root it and debuff / nuke it to finish it off5- if the mob break free stun and finish nuking itMy charmed mob takes a lot of dammage during the process and usually last 2 or 3 fights, in it's last fight i root the mob just before my charmed mob die.

[ootpek]

Or better yet...find a Fury or Warden pet and use them.  They nuke pretty hard and heal themselves too.  Very handy for keeping your pet around longer and having it tank for you.  Also I use my +hate buff on the pet and use my harmonius link on myself for less aggro and hate transfer.  Keeps the mob on my pet more and I can help with nukes more. 

[Trepan]

<cite>Seirrah@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magical wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I agree with what was said about melee breaking charm.  Without fighting, charm will usually hold for the full duration.  The charm spell's quality affects the charmed mob's spell damage but not it's melee damage.  Look for mage pets.  The Erudite aura vision will help you to find them.  Mage types glow blue.  <b>Yes, I think that Erudites make the best coercers for that very reason.</b></p></blockquote>Just means you can be lazy and not have to look it up online.  *shrugs*</blockquote>And the Possession spell will let you see exactly what abilities the mob has, something an aura glow won't tell you.

[Cmos]

<cite>Seirrah@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magical wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I agree with what was said about melee breaking charm.  Without fighting, charm will usually hold for the full duration.  The charm spell's quality affects the charmed mob's spell damage but not it's melee damage.  Look for mage pets.  The Erudite aura vision will help you to find them.  Mage types glow blue.  <b>Yes, I think that Erudites make the best coercers for that very reason.</b></p></blockquote>Just means you can be lazy and not have to look it up online.  *shrugs*</blockquote>Just curious as to why that would be considered lazy... Using the mechanics of the game,  to better the class you choose to roll... sounds more like playing smart to me...

[Lord Montague]

<cite>Cmos@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Seirrah@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magical wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I agree with what was said about melee breaking charm.  Without fighting, charm will usually hold for the full duration.  The charm spell's quality affects the charmed mob's spell damage but not it's melee damage.  Look for mage pets.  The Erudite aura vision will help you to find them.  Mage types glow blue.  <b>Yes, I think that Erudites make the best coercers for that very reason.</b></p></blockquote>Just means you can be lazy and not have to look it up online.  *shrugs*</blockquote>Just curious as to why that would be considered lazy... Using the mechanics of the game,  to better the class you choose to roll... sounds more like playing smart to me...</blockquote><p>But one minor aspect does not make for a better or smarter player - might make something quicker for a little while, but there are many other paths too...*shrugs*  To me, while an edge this might be, it's one with diminishing returns.</p>

[Magic]

<cite>Awixee wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's my tactic,It's a little bit slow, but relatively safe.1- charm an appropriate mob2- Send the your charmed mob to attack something and let him grab aggro (a few hit will do)3- dot the mob, the reason for that is that dots will generate less aggro, while casting one of root, debuff, stun and mezz and nuke will generate enough aggro for the mob to target you instead of your charmed mob4- when the mob is at about half health, root it and debuff / nuke it to finish it off5- if the mob break free stun and finish nuking itMy charmed mob takes a lot of dammage during the process and usually last 2 or 3 fights, in it's last fight i root the mob just before my charmed mob die.</blockquote>Yes, root your pet's target shortly before the pet is about to die.  That's an important detail.  Probably common sense but worth the mention.

[Magic]

<cite>Trepan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Seirrah@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magical wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I agree with what was said about melee breaking charm.  Without fighting, charm will usually hold for the full duration.  The charm spell's quality affects the charmed mob's spell damage but not it's melee damage.  Look for mage pets.  The Erudite aura vision will help you to find them.  Mage types glow blue.  <b>Yes, I think that Erudites make the best coercers for that very reason.</b></p></blockquote>Just means you can be lazy and not have to look it up online.  *shrugs*</blockquote>And the Possession spell will let you see exactly what abilities the mob has, something an aura glow won't tell you.</blockquote><p>Ah-ha!  What I should've said was that the Erudite race is *MY* personal choice for coercer because of the initial advantage of having the highest starting INT (30) and aura vision.  I also roleplay the Erudite's snotty attitude.</p><p>I've tried the possession spell and didn't like it so I removed it from my hotbar.  I may have found a new use for it.  Thanks for the tips everyone.</p>

[Nocturnal Aby]

<cite>Awixee wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's my tactic,It's a little bit slow, but relatively safe.1- charm an appropriate mob2- Send the your charmed mob to attack something and let him grab aggro (a few hit will do)3- dot the mob, the reason for that is that dots will generate less aggro, while casting one of root, debuff, stun and mezz and nuke will generate enough aggro for the mob to target you instead of your charmed mob4- when the mob is at about half health, root it and debuff / nuke it to finish it off5- if the mob break free stun and finish nuking itMy charmed mob takes a lot of dammage during the process and usually last 2 or 3 fights, in it's last fight i root the mob just before my charmed mob die.</blockquote><p>The reason you don't see as many people using this technique is that each time your charmed pet takes damage (of any sort), it has a chance to break your charm.  From my own experience, a pet I use to tank with will break charm a lot more often than a pet I use to nuke with.  Similarly, every time a DoT tics, it has a chance to break your root, as any time the mob takes damage, it has a chance to break root.  No matter how much damage a mob takes, the stun will last it's full duration (the only mitigating factor on that is if it is a names or an epic.  It seems to have shorter duration on some nameds).  This is the reason you'll see coercer doing the root/stun nuke option over the use pet as a tank.  This might also be why you'd find it worthwhile to put points in the EoF charm ability.</p><p>I'm not some uber leet player, but when I solo, I usually have my pet in /pet range, and have it so they won't attack the mob if either the pet or I get attacked (so it will only attack when I tell it to).  I root the mob, debuff it as much as possible, throw one of my stuns on it, tell my pet to attack, and let both of us nuke it for a while until I see the stun beginning to wear off, then I tell the pet to back off, and I recast root/mez.  Rinse repeat.  I don't always wait for a stun to be up, sometimes I just hope that my magic debuff and the root will hold.  If the mob is low, I'll throw on the combat reactive, and send my pet in, and let the mob beat himself to death as my reactive finishes him off.  Just my own tactic, and this is mostly for solo or dual encounters.  For three or more, it gets a little bit trickier, and a lot more fun.</p>

[Fasci]

<cite>Magical wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p> I also roleplay the Erudite's snotty attitude.</p></blockquote>LOL!!  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Great tips, all. And I'm looking forward to getting Possession to finally see what all those mobs are thinking!

[Potentater]

<p>At 38, I've had quite a bit of success with using my pets as tanks.  Sure I deal with an occasional charm break, but as long as you keep the target rooted and target through you pet, you can stun and recharm.  I might not have leveled to 20 in five minutes like "I'm supposed to", but I was busy enjoying the quests and environment.</p><p>Charm-buff pet with hate & dps buffs-Find baddy and send in for attack-wait until pet has the creature down about 10% then dot/reactive/nuke.  </p><p> The problem's i've had with /pet ranged is that they nuke a few times, then go into melee anyway and die rapidly as a mage should.</p>

[Jeramiah]

At what level do charmed monsters really start to nuke hard? Up till tier 4, all the mobs ive charmed have nuked for around 150ish damage.

[Fasci]

I first noticed a *big* difference in EL charming Darkflight Hags, which sometimes hit for over 1k.In Nek, the Nerius Seer (DoT & self heal) and Sullian Corrupter (500-ish nuke) did pretty well, though not spectacular.  Wandering Essences in BB were good, and I also liked Arisen Inducers (500-ish nuke) in TS.Check out: <a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Coercer_Pets" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Coercer_Pets</a>

[Ferguson]

<cite>Nocturnal Abyss wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>The reason you don't see as many people using this technique is that each time your charmed pet takes damage (of any sort), it has a chance to break your charm.  </p></blockquote>I have <i>never </i>seen this on my Coercer.  Can any else confirm that your pet has a chance to break charm every tiem it takes damage?