Status items and guild contribution

[freel]

Let me see if I understand this right, low level characters will no longer be able to sell status items and contribute to the growth of their guild. I can't see any purpose to this at all except to penalize low level characters and keep them from being able to meet the requirements many guilds have for promotions.It seems to me that once again the Dev team has forgotten to consider the consequences of their actions on the lower level and new players. What a wonderful introduction to the game.All players  should have equal ability to contribute to their guild regardless of their level. Please reconsider this change and stop penalizing new players.I see that some of the highest level guilds are preparing for a race to level after the expansion. While that may be true, there doesn't seem to be much you can do about it. This game has always been competitive - that's the nature of the game. Why else do you have leader boards?Stop trying to control the actions of the few by penalizing the whole. Remember there are probably more low level players than high levels on the servers - especially if you consider active players. Also, please remember that the new players are your life blood. Without them, server numbers won't grow. Allow them to have the same experience we did growing up. Allow them to be true contributors to their guilds and the game.Please stop this change as it is not productive and has no real purpose other than to make new and low-level players feel like noobs! Thank you.

[Finora]

<p>If that (hordes of status item turn ins as soon as the expansion releases) is what they are concerned with and the reason for the change, why don' t they just make the merchants not buy the things for 2-3 weeks after Kunark is released. Problem solved. No one blasts to 80 via status drops, lower level folks can continue to sell them (as merchants allow) to help advance the guild.</p>

[Lionidas]

No you don't understand it right. Low level characters can still turn in status items and contribute to the growth of the guild. They just have to get status items from either their mains or off the broker or they could do adventure writs, crafting writs or HQs.What the change means is that NO ONE at any level can turn in a lower level status item and level a higher level guild.

[Bridgeplay]

<p>Nerfing the guild contribution portion of status items that people have been saving is a really bad idea, particularly with the guild instability that has been brewing on some servers.</p>

[freel]

I understand that selling the status items will be tied to the level of the guild, according to the proposed change. In other words, a level 10 player who gets status items through a mob drop won't be able to sell that item and have it contribute to his level 30 guild. He would have to find a way to buy status items or have someone donate items to him to use that method to contribute to his guild.Not every player has a "main" to give them items. Not every player has money to buy status items to sell for status. In fact, I think the original intent "spirit of the game" if you will was to allow players of all levels to be able to have the same opportunity to get status through drops to sell for status and contribute to their own personal status and their guild.Now thanks to this change, we take away that ability and thus penalize the true new players and those people who play their alts without help from their mains.The change will not have any impact on the level 70s, who probably have more personal status than they can use, but it could have impact on the race to level guilds after the expansion is released, which is why some people speculate that the change is tied to the race.I think I understand the change, I'm just not sure that the dev's understand the potential result and impact on new and true low-level players. Sure, you can blow through the low levels fairly quickly, so in the example above to be able to contribute to a level 30 guild shouldn't take too long, but for players who get membership in a level 60 guild, it could be some time before they could use the same method current players use to up their status count for promotion in their guild. And, it's true they can use writs and HQ's to gain status, but still it's not fair that they can't sell status items and contribute to their guild - as we all did.It's just not a smart change, and I'm hoping that the dev team will recognize this and not implement it.

[Lionidas]

Yes a low level player can in fact sell that item. He can either sell it for personal status and coin to a merchant, sell it for just coin to a merchant or sell it on the broker for coin from other players. With that coin he can purchase a status item of the proper level. Do not think that there is no way to make money as a low level character. Shineys, L&L parts and even common harvests at the low levels sell for a huge chunk of coin. Here is another great example from a real life experience and not something made up to to and convince the devs that my side is right. My wife and I started over on another server a few weeks ago. We had no ties to anyone on this server. No money. Not a thing except the things they give you when you first roll a toon. Life was hard till about the second day when we were high enough to kill the drakes in Darklight Woods. My wife looted a Drakota Claw! She put it on the broker for 50g and it sold within hours. Very next day I got not one, but two Cracked Barbarian Bones! Right now our toons are in the low 30s and have about 5p saved up. That would buy a lot of status items if we were in a guild that made us get status. But we are not associated with that type of guild. So we are fine.

[Kaalenarc]

<p>Some clarifications:</p><p>1.) All guilds need status if they want to level regardless of whether the guild "requires" it. </p><p>2.) "lower and higher" level guilds. If youre level 20 in a level 40 guild, the status items you loot wont help your guild. Same goes if your level 10 in a level 20 guild.  Basically you can only contribute if your personal level is at or above your guild level. </p><p>Theres a longer thread on this elsewhere on the boards - look there if you want more info. </p>

[Arphenion]

<p>A lot of people seem to be ignoring a lot of this change.  People of any level can still contribute to guild status, it is only the status items that are different.  That said, I do not like this change mainly because it puts players who have invested possibly hundreds of plat in the guild race in the hole.  I think that the ability for a guild to go from 60 to 80 in a day or two is pushing it, but if they want to spend the money then allow them to, it is a game mechanic that has been there since day one.  </p><p>On the change though, low level guilds are not going to be hurt by this in any serious sense... A level 40 guild which has level 15 or so members cannot contribute looted status items, big deal.  20 points per status item is not going to make or break overall status.  If you farm status items on a level 15 character and turn in 100 of them thats only 2000 points... not any kind of big jump when you will get about 200 GSP per writ.  If you have the money to buy the low level status items, you most likely have the money to buy the next couple teirs up as well.  In the end all this change hurts is the large guilds who have been stocking up.  The smaller guilds may be set back from leveling a miniscule amount, but in the end it is not going to hurt anything.  Calm down, form a writ group, and level up your guild.  If you want to do it by status items, buy the tier of status items you are on and sell the lower ones.</p>

[Zeuhl]

Well, there have been many constructive repsonses back and forth for once. I still think this is a senseless change however. I can't even conceive as to why the devs spent time working on this when there are so many other issues out there.

[kreepr]

<cite>Lionidas wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes a low level player can in fact sell that item. He can either sell it for personal status and coin to a merchant, sell it for just coin to a merchant or sell it on the broker for coin from other players. With that coin he can purchase a status item of the proper level. Do not think that there is no way to make money as a low level character. Shineys, L&L parts and even common harvests at the low levels sell for a huge chunk of coin. Here is another great example from a real life experience and not something made up to to and convince the devs that my side is right. My wife and I started over on another server a few weeks ago. We had no ties to anyone on this server. No money. Not a thing except the things they give you when you first roll a toon. Life was hard till about the second day when we were high enough to kill the drakes in Darklight Woods. My wife looted a Drakota Claw! She put it on the broker for 50g and it sold within hours. Very next day I got not one, but two Cracked Barbarian Bones! Right now our toons are in the low 30s and have about 5p saved up. That would buy a lot of status items if we were in a guild that made us get status. But we are not associated with that type of guild. So we are fine. </blockquote><span style="color: #ff0000;">Give it up we all know what is happening and we don't like it. It's not a fair change at any level period. They are trying to control something they should not be controlling. People have every right in this game to level what ever they want as fast or slow as they want WITH IN THE RULES and last time I checked the status items where in those rules. Now take your mindless dribble some where else.</span>

[Jrral]

I don't like this change, but I see why SOE's doing it. As someone pointed out, a lot of guilds will be stockpiling tons of status items to try and get to the new max level the day the expansion goes live. This should short-circuit that. There's also the situation of high-level characters going into low-level zones to farm tons of status items from mobs that don't present any real danger to them. Yes status items don't individually contribute a lot of status, but you can accumulate a LOT of them and they add up. I can see why SOE would want to slow that "rush to cap" down some, make the guilds actually work in the new content to level up instead of having all of it saved up ready to trigger and *BAM* instant guild level-up before they've even stepped foot in the RoK zones.And from a role-play standpoint, it makes sense. Why would a high-level guild gain prestige, stature and power from smacking around the puny little gnolls in Antonica? Their individual members who're of a level for that zone would, but the guild as a whole's beyond that.

[denmom]

<cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't like this change, but I see why SOE's doing it. As someone pointed out, a lot of guilds will be stockpiling tons of status items to try and get to the new max level the day the expansion goes live. This should short-circuit that. There's also the situation of high-level characters going into low-level zones to farm tons of status items from mobs that don't present any real danger to them. Yes status items don't individually contribute a lot of status, but you can accumulate a LOT of them and they add up. I can see why SOE would want to slow that "rush to cap" down some, make the guilds actually work in the new content to level up instead of having all of it saved up ready to trigger and *BAM* instant guild level-up before they've even stepped foot in the RoK zones.And from a role-play standpoint, it makes sense. Why would a high-level guild gain prestige, stature and power from smacking around the puny little gnolls in Antonica? Their individual members who're of a level for that zone would, but the guild as a whole's beyond that.</blockquote>Yah, agreed...makes me glad you, me, and everyone else got SaMH to L30 before this went live.The T2s don't add much, but I had several stacks of them along with the T3s due to all of the lower level alts we have currently.  Our teenagers don't play much, but their toons are around the T2 and T3 range, they don't play often enough to do writs, so they contribute with the items.For lower level guilds, it adds up, even for us L30 ones.  Accumulate a stack of them, turn in, it can be a small nudge but still a nudge.  And when you're small (SaMH has 4 active guild members, teens don't play much), every bit helps.Personally, I think this change hurts the smaller guilds.  Yes, buy the higher level status loots (which I have done in the past to nudge us closer to an x0 ding), yes do the writs and HQs which give more status...<i><b>however</b></i> not everyone has the time to be able to go on writ hunts and HQs.  Yes, playing the RL card here because it <i><b>is</b></i> a factor which <i><b>must</b></i> be taken into consideration.  Sometimes having the lower level status loots is all that a player can contribute to a L30 or higher guild due to RL constraints.

[Aelfhun]

Seems to me if you want to prevent high level people from turning in many low level status items that they got with no risk, then simply make it so that only level appropriate items to the PLAYER will add to guild progression.  I see no reason to tie this to guild level.A

[tikasa]

<span style="font-size: large;">Easy fix.   From 1 to 60  <b>NO CHANGE</b>.   From 60 to 80 no status items can be used to level a guild that are not T-8 or higher and make them <b>NO TRADE<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></b></span>

[Galn]

<p>Simple fix to this problem...</p><p>There needs to be a diminishing returns as the guild gets higher and higher, but to have T1 items only benefit level 1-10 guilds seems a bit steep to me. Perhaps have a system where guilds get a pecentage of lower items which goes down as the guild goes up in level. A level 23 guild can still get a small amount of status from a T1 item, but a level 60 guild would get none. A level 50 guild would get small percentage from T1, and get maybe half from a T3 item. </p>

[Arphenion]

<p>I can somewhat understand the RL argument, but in the end of all things, the impact is going to be minimal at best.  Don't get me wrong, I am opposed to this change entirely, but I am viewing it with an open mind.  Guild members can and will still contribute, and if people can't turn in status items for their level, they can easily complete a writ by hunting mobs, even if you are only on 20 minutes or so.  You are still going to accumulate status faster that way than with writs.  As far as the level restriction goes, a fellow guild member of mine brought up the same point, why not restrict it by character level?  If you are in a high level guild full of 70's and have horded 20,000 t2 status items, all you would have to do is make an alt to turn them in instead of your main.  Guild level was SOE's universal stopper.  I really am not too worried about the progress of low level guild, they will be fine.  Guild levels 1-30 are cake, and at level 30, stacks of t1 status items are going to do little to help anyway.  Also, it is worth noting that adventure level up to 30 isnt that bad either, so guild members can get to the point of getting t4 status items to contribute via status items if they really want to.</p>

[Jrral]

<cite>Aelfhun wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seems to me if you want to prevent high level people from turning in many low level status items that they got with no risk, then simply make it so that only level appropriate items to the PLAYER will add to guild progression.  I see no reason to tie this to guild level.</blockquote>At which point the guild will just go collect the items as normal using high-level characters in low-level zones, and hand the stockpile over to a low-level alt to turn in. You'd have to make the status items no-trade to close that hole, and that's a non-trivial change.Sigh. Yet another case where a small minority who have the console-game, single-player-game "player vs. game, you have to beat the game" attitude make life annoying for everybody who doesn't share their attitude.

[Allurana]

<cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aelfhun wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seems to me if you want to prevent high level people from turning in many low level status items that they got with no risk, then simply make it so that only level appropriate items to the PLAYER will add to guild progression.  I see no reason to tie this to guild level.</blockquote>At which point the guild will just go collect the items as normal using high-level characters in low-level zones, and hand the stockpile over to a low-level alt to turn in. You'd have to make the status items no-trade to close that hole, and that's a non-trivial change.Sigh. Yet another case where a small minority who have the console-game, single-player-game "player vs. game, you have to beat the game" attitude make life annoying for everybody who doesn't share their attitude.</blockquote><p>This game, this community would be a MILLION times better off if more people had the "console-game, single-player-game "player vs. game, you have to best the game" mentaility.</p><p>Unless you are on PVP, this is probably the most user-friendly game in terms of having systems in place to stop others from interfereing with your game experience BUT NO! that isn't enough.  Many many folks on these forums still feel that they must hammer their own personal opinions on what this game "should be" onto everyone else.</p><p>WHO CARES WHO WAS FIRST?  Who cares who is going to kill Nagafen first?  Who cares if you have raid gear and I don't?  Enjoy the game, have fun.  If you derive your fun by lessening other people's fun, that is very very sad.</p><p>I honestly could care less if 1, 2, 500 guilds hit level 80 on the very first day that the expansion comes live - How does that effect me and my game?</p>

[SantiagoDraco]

<cite>tikasa wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="font-size: large;">Easy fix.   From 1 to 60  <b>NO CHANGE</b>.   From 60 to 80 no status items can be used to level a guild that are not T-8 or higher and make them <b>NO TRADE<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></b></span></blockquote>No trade is just as stupid as the change they are already making.   Who gives a sheit if guilds hoard status items.  The who thing is rediculous.  All they've done is severely crippled a game mechanism that has helped retain players in the game.   The effects of this will trickle down over time and the game playerbase will further erode.Sometimes I question why I even came back to the game when I see stuff like this.  Of course maybe SOE is getting out of the MMO business and wants the game to die a slow death?  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Dasein]

<cite>SantiagoDraco wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>tikasa wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="font-size: large;">Easy fix.   From 1 to 60  <b>NO CHANGE</b>.   From 60 to 80 no status items can be used to level a guild that are not T-8 or higher and make them <b>NO TRADE<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></b></span></blockquote>No trade is just as stupid as the change they are already making.   Who gives a sheit if guilds hoard status items.  The who thing is rediculous.  All they've done is severely crippled a game mechanism that has helped retain players in the game.   The effects of this will trickle down over time and the game playerbase will further erode.Sometimes I question why I even came back to the game when I see stuff like this.  Of course maybe SOE is getting out of the MMO business and wants the game to die a slow death?  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>Outside of a few people getting themselves worked up into a frenzy over this on the forums, no one really cares. The few hundred points of guild status contributed by a lower level player turning in lower level status items simply isn't a factor for most people. I wonder how many lower level players bother turning in these items at all, and instead just dump them on the broker? After all, how many sub-20, non-alts are actually guilded to begin with?

[Devilsbane]

<p>Finally I have a bit of reference material in regards to Guild Status. </p><p>Let me thank The Rising Dawn for their help and apologize to Cool Cats. Originally Cool Cats would have gotten the guild status. The server rollback unguilded my character. </p><p><img src="http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/4607/eq2000070oj6.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="1280" height="1024" /></p><p><img src="http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9131/eq2000071br0.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="1280" height="1024" /></p><p>Now this means 13K guild status equals 2.375% of guild level 54. So it takes 547K guild status (5.5 Million personal status) between guild level 54 to 55. So how many status items would that take? It would take about 8.4K T7 (421 stacks total). If a T7 status item drops in a ratio of 1:5 NPC kills. It would take 42.5K NPCs to acquire enough status items just for one level. </p><p>If the amount of Guild Status to achieve the next guild level never increased. That means a guild would need around 168K T7 status items (8.4K stacks) on the day of the launch of RoK. </p><p>It is impossible for a guild to hoard enough status items to make guild level 80 the day RoK is released. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>The change to status needs to be reversed it will not have the effect that was intended.</p>

[thepriz]

<cite>kreepr13 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lionidas wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes a low level player can in fact sell that item. He can either sell it for personal status and coin to a merchant, sell it for just coin to a merchant or sell it on the broker for coin from other players. With that coin he can purchase a status item of the proper level. Do not think that there is no way to make money as a low level character. Shineys, L&L parts and even common harvests at the low levels sell for a huge chunk of coin. Here is another great example from a real life experience and not something made up to to and convince the devs that my side is right. My wife and I started over on another server a few weeks ago. We had no ties to anyone on this server. No money. Not a thing except the things they give you when you first roll a toon. Life was hard till about the second day when we were high enough to kill the drakes in Darklight Woods. My wife looted a Drakota Claw! She put it on the broker for 50g and it sold within hours. Very next day I got not one, but two Cracked Barbarian Bones! Right now our toons are in the low 30s and have about 5p saved up. That would buy a lot of status items if we were in a guild that made us get status. But we are not associated with that type of guild. So we are fine. </blockquote><span style="color: #ff0000;">Give it up we all know what is happening and we don't like it. It's not a fair change at any level period. They are trying to control something they should not be controlling. People have every right in this game to level what ever they want as fast or slow as they want WITH IN THE RULES and last time I checked the status items where in those rules. Now take your mindless dribble some where else.</span></blockquote>You need to go read the EULA as the rules can be changed anytime it is deemed necessary. Anything that trivializes content should be changed. You can state your opinion all you want but you are in violation of the Forum rules by attacking someone else.

[SorynD]

Well i will say i've been saving up my status items & have like 2 bags full atm...now i've spent the time weather it was when i mentored down to help a friend or while i was farming to get every item & i expect to turn it all it. really...why make a change like this at all, guild lvls are meaning less atm all it dose for you is let you buy maybe a few extra items from the city vendor...oh my can't have ppl doing that /rolls eyes. abserd the things the Dev's find to waste time on rather then fix borked quests/zones or combat/class changes that should have been fixed from the start of the game.

[TaleraRis]

<cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>And from a role-play standpoint, it makes sense. Why would a high-level guild gain prestige, stature and power from smacking around the puny little gnolls in Antonica? Their individual members who're of a level for that zone would, but the guild as a whole's beyond that.</blockquote>Also role-play wise, does it make sense for low level players to come to a faction merchant with items that come from mobs they very obviously didn't kill themselves? Wouldn't the given faction honor them for contributions within their ability? I made a longer post in the large thread, but a key factor of why I don't like it is that higher level characters lose nothing as they can still contribute the status items they gain hunting (like....when they're out doing writs) but lower level characters lose this facet. It doesn't effect me. I'm a 66 in a level 26 guild with a few buddies, with no ranking by guild status etc, but I feel for those who are held by other conditions and are losing a way to contribute that their higher level brethren aren't.