Test changes are a joke, right? [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

SpritRaja

08-31-2007, 09:23 PM

They are saying to those scouts and tanks that if you wanted to run around looking silly in your mage robe while tanking epics you are now screwed. You wearing plate? You can only look like you are wearing plate. You tanking that epic in your frilly robe? You can look like you are wearing chain if you want.Personally I like it. Mages can still choose the best looking robe or vest available to them even if it is level 12 gear. Brawlers can still look good in their best Gi while wearing crappy looking leathers or robe like leathers. Scouts that wear leather can look good in their full chain suit. Tanks can choose their best set of plate armor to look good in.

denmom

08-31-2007, 09:26 PM

The only reason I can see for changing the stealth for scouts is the trivializing of content.I'll admit that yes, I have obtained items needed due to being with a scout and been smuggled to what I need. I've also been invis'd by a mage in the same way.I can see SOE's pov on this...however a scout is canny and sneaky and should be able to slip by the enemy to gain what they need. And they should be able to sneak items and spirit them away.*sigh*

Armawk

08-31-2007, 10:43 PM

<cite>Terreciel wrote:</cite><blockquote>Kudos to the status point nerf instigator: You won the Most Hated at Sony prize for this week!</blockquote>Only because people havent realised the implications of the stealth change. This is a major gameplay revision for approximately 50% of all characters. Guild status isnt even on the radar next to the 80% or more of the player base who will be directly, and probably in most cases without warning prior to their first death, affected by this change.Most people dont know about patches and update notes. they log in, play the game, expect it to be broadly the same game they played yesterday. With this change they will die. repeatedly. most will think there is a bug or that they are doing something stupid. A tiny handful will be prepared in advance and will not fall into it.

liveja

08-31-2007, 10:52 PM

<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Terreciel wrote:</cite> <blockquote>Kudos to the status point nerf instigator: You won the Most Hated at Sony prize for this week!</blockquote>Only because people havent realised the implications of the stealth change.</blockquote>I didn't know it was coming until yesterday ... but I've been expecting it or something similar for a long, long time.That's not to say I like it, or support the change. It's saying that I'm not surprised -- & deep down, I'm betting a lot of other stealthers aren't as surprised as they might let on.Edit: I forgot about this part, because I hadn't thought of it until now, but ... are corpses, or chests, considered "widgets"? If so, I'm a very, very, very upset Swashy.

MrWolfie

08-31-2007, 11:10 PM

<cite>EtoilePirate wrote:</cite><blockquote>Third place: making all click-to-inspect items have a two-second casting time.Were scouts (and mages... and Furies over 45...) and people using totems really SO overpowering the game that now we can't inspect anything in the world anymore? I call shenanigans and I'm sick and tired of one by one losing everything that makes a scout a SCOUT.</blockquote>I've been playing on the test server, no prizes for guessing why, and this change is extremely annoying. Seems like almost everything has a 2 second delay, and it really hampers my duo's effectiveness at sneaking around. IMO, a really negative change hitting the casual peeps hardest ~ not to mention that the delay is like a stutter in the game.When there's people complaining about tanks wearing dresses, I'm surprised they're not all over this one, 'cos the whole world stops while I grab a book!!Did I mention I really don't like this change?

Garlin1

09-01-2007, 12:15 AM

It is 2 seconds for clickys.. 2 secs... I mean if that made it like a 10 sec cast I could see the problem but just because the way you play the game is changed stop complaining. Adapt and overcome and have fun. Its Everquest 2, HOW many times have they changed stuff? Are all changes a +, no. I remember having to learn a necro all over again because they wanted to make a necro a whole different type of class. Next thing you know your gonna gripe because people play LoN and have clickys that gives them a damage shield or oh no a free mount.

Solarax

09-01-2007, 12:27 AM

quoted from garlin1 just because the way you play the game is changed stop complaining.<hr />umn hello but we choose the classes we want to play based on certain styles and if hey go changing it that means our coices are meaningless and we are all clones

Garlin1

09-01-2007, 12:44 AM

I picked Necro from the beginning because I wanted a balanced class of DoTs, Nukes, Etc. Much like EQ1. They changed my DoTs to limited pets etc. I still toss in the ol Swarm of Bats just for extra DPS. Sure it sucks that your class was changed, move on and have fun. Complaining won't fix it. Sending detailed info through feedback to the devs might. Btw, my comment was mainly on the 2 sec click nerf. If you rely on a clicky item to play your class then how was your choice to be a "X" class ruined?

Wargurine

09-01-2007, 11:30 AM

<cite>Garlin1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I picked Necro from the beginning because I wanted a balanced class of DoTs, Nukes, Etc. Much like EQ1. They changed my DoTs to limited pets etc. I still toss in the ol Swarm of Bats just for extra DPS. Sure it sucks that your class was changed, move on and have fun. Complaining won't fix it. Sending detailed info through feedback to the devs might. Btw, my comment was mainly on the 2 sec click nerf. If you rely on a clicky item to play your class then how was your choice to be a "X" class ruined? </blockquote>It has nothing to do with clicky items that you use in combat or anything like that. Its about items in the WORLD that you have to click on, like say, a book on a table, or a switch for an elevator, crap like that, now takes 2 seconds to activate, and drops stealth. Whats the point of even having stealth now?

ZerkerDwarf

09-01-2007, 02:05 PM

WHY the heck can't you wear cloth over plate armour?Is it to preserve cloth look for mages only? To preserve all classes default look?As a berserker I don't want to wear a robe in combat, but I was looking forward to some really nice and cool looking leather leggings. :-/

Devilsbane

09-01-2007, 04:56 PM

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Terreciel wrote:</cite> <blockquote>Kudos to the status point nerf instigator: You won the Most Hated at Sony prize for this week!</blockquote>Only because people havent realised the implications of the stealth change.</blockquote>I didn't know it was coming until yesterday ... but I've been expecting it or something similar for a long, long time.That's not to say I like it, or support the change. It's saying that I'm not surprised -- & deep down, I'm betting a lot of other stealthers aren't as surprised as they might let on.Edit: I forgot about this part, because I hadn't thought of it until now, but ... are corpses, or chests, considered "widgets"? If so, I'm a very, very, very upset Swashy.</blockquote>Oh those are nothing when compared to the problem if Doors are included in the list. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

EtoilePirate

09-01-2007, 05:42 PM

<cite>Devilsbane wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Terreciel wrote:</cite> <blockquote>Kudos to the status point nerf instigator: You won the Most Hated at Sony prize for this week!</blockquote>Only because people havent realised the implications of the stealth change.</blockquote>I didn't know it was coming until yesterday ... but I've been expecting it or something similar for a long, long time.That's not to say I like it, or support the change. It's saying that I'm not surprised -- & deep down, I'm betting a lot of other stealthers aren't as surprised as they might let on.Edit: I forgot about this part, because I hadn't thought of it until now, but ... are corpses, or chests, considered "widgets"? If so, I'm a very, very, very upset Swashy.</blockquote>Oh those are nothing when compared to the problem if Doors are included in the list. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Good questions! Wish I could get in the game to check and comfirm / deny -- although my inclinations are "no." Doors and chests don't ever seem to have been quite in the same category as the other items, if you know what I mean.From my experience on Friday (I'm now out of town on a PC with a 'net connection but no game) "widgets" means anything that clicking it gave you an inspect window. Like the writ tables in the crafting instances. "Look for Invoice" now takes two seconds to "cast."The first quest that came to mind for me with this change was Druzaic language, "Words of Pure Magic." I remembered doing it with my Assassin (stealthed) and my Fury (invised) camping the shrine on the EF ocean floor. Now, clicking that shrine would break stealth / invis.

TaleraRis

09-01-2007, 06:42 PM

If they're going to make the stealth ability completely useless, they should just remove it. With the prevalence of see-invis mobs peppered in with non-see invis mobs and now this, where is stealth going to be useful to us?

Erithe

09-01-2007, 07:07 PM

So far, all changes listed on this particular thread .... yeah, not good. It is hard enough to have to have invis drop while out in dangerous locations WITHOUT having to wait any extra time. No one minds that scouts keep their stealth. It's a great thing about being a scout and they should get to keep it. Waiting 2 seconds may not seem like much to a lot of people out there, but it can mean the difference between life and death when you have to immediately cast invis again after clicking that thing you needed. Or if you have to dash out of aggro range after clicking your item. PLUS, if you lag at all, you're going to think the game is blipping. I'm sorry, but this is not an acceptable change, and I don't see a good reason to implement it. Why the heck should the game seem any slower? it's already a resource hog. Let's not add an actual lag into the game as a game function. Please, don't. It's just makes the game more painful in so many ways that aren't worth it.As to the fluff slots for armor ... I've already posted on this elsewhere. There's gotta be another solution, or just leave it alone. Seriously. Let people be creative outside their houses. It's not a disaster to let players have creative fun in a game.

Captain Apple Darkberry

09-01-2007, 11:34 PM

Sorry all you hard working Devs, Coders, Other Folks... ...while I appreciate all that you do for us, your screwing up big on this update. In so many ways its not even funny... =/You need to nix the widget nerf. Its ridiculous. You spend countless hours nerfing the game till its as soft as cotton candy and now you want to make things harder? Well ok, but make it harder in ways that are not so silly.And free up the armor fluff slots so they can hold anything you are at least of a level to use.I mean seriously. The fluff slots are one of the coolest things to hit the game since off line selling, and yet you are going to screw it up...

Ildarus

09-02-2007, 12:14 AM

Well this is going to go down in history as on of the stupidest game updates in history. I was really looking forward to the fluff slots and now they are frickin pointless. I need to wear my chain armor and I was really looking forward to being able to use some leather pieces for a unique look. Why even bother?? As far as the stealth nerf, I don't like it, but it doesn't surprise me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> I swear some people must be getting bored at SOE to come up with some of the bull crap changes that they keep coming up with. How about put more developers and programmers on the expansion and the model changes and get those completed. That way there will be less to look at what they can screw up for us. You know that if you have more developers and programmers than you really have work for that you can let them go instead of having them find things to fix that really do not need to be fixed.

Bre

09-02-2007, 02:50 AM

The change does not bring you out of stealth if you open a door or disarm a chest. Mainly it is just quest updates that before were a click to get credit are now a 2 sec cast that will uninvis you. Brega - 70 Ranger, Test Server

Tarlok

09-02-2007, 03:14 AM

This 2 second thing is a pain and I think is motivated by upset devs that don't play scouts. I rolled my scout as I could complete quests in t2 that my 35 defiler could not even think about doing without a group. Example is the upper tunels access quest, at 21 my dirge soloed that quest, when my defiler has not even competed it at his level despite trying many times to get it done. Stealth made that possible. There are many other quests that a scout or a smuggled group can do that are a pain to complete otherwise. Recondisder this change please as you will make my dirge prety much need a group now for even a simple quest that involves clickies. Not the reason I rolled my dirge, I like to solo quest, if I wanted to group all the time I would play my defiler.

einar4

09-02-2007, 03:23 AM

<cite>PaganSaint wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Terreciel wrote:</cite><blockquote>Second Place Prize: requiring heavier armor for fluff. </blockquote>It says any armor class you can already equip plus any armor class that is heavier.They just suck at concise explanations.</blockquote> Nope, this is verified. Only armor that is heavier or the same as what you have (weight meaning class of armor, like plate, chain, leather, cloth) will show up. If you have chain and try to use a leather piece for appearance slot, it doesn't show. The basic limitation is that you can only use the same armor you currently have on as your "fluff" armor.

FuriCuri

09-02-2007, 04:06 AM

Well, I have an idea: when they put it on live lets spam the hell out them with /bug about stealth broke. But we should write text in various manner so they can't get some bot to block our spam bug reports. And we will send those spam bug reports for, lets say, for a two weeks. Cause if they don't give a sh... about our opinion on forums we shout out our thoughts to them.

Bhagpuss

09-02-2007, 05:49 AM

<cite>Garlin1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> Btw, my comment was mainly on the 2 sec click nerf. If you rely on a clicky item to play your class then how was your choice to be a "X" class ruined? </blockquote>You clearly don't understand what's been changed, or who it affects. Others have expalined that clearly so I won't go over it.On the idea that EQ2 is always changing so specific changes don't matter, it seems to me that not all changes are of equal value, nor will they be equally accepted. Changes like the huge revision to how combat worked or the massive redesign of tradeskills took weeks, even months of discussion and testing before they were introduced and even though they were far from universally welcomed, they did address major issues that were damaging the overall health of the game. This change, which potentially affects all players and directly affects a large number of classes in their key roles, is being thrown in as a fait accompli, to fix a problem that few players would have considered to be of concern and which, I am certain, would not be having any negative effect on subscription numbers if left unchanged.Add to that, if a fix for this issue was truly necessary, this isn't the right fix. The 2-second delay every time you try to interact with any object in the world is clumsy, intrusive and off-putting. Why should all of us have to stutter and hiccup while doing perfectly innocuous things in perfectly safe locations just to address some perceived issue with other people bypassing content elsewhere in the game? If you want to have mobs see people who stop to pick up objects in certain locations, why not give those specific mobs the ability to see invisible?

Jrral

09-02-2007, 05:57 AM

<cite>Tarlok wrote:</cite><blockquote>This 2 second thing is a pain and I think is motivated by upset devs that don't play scouts. I rolled my scout as I could complete quests in t2 that my 35 defiler could not even think about doing without a group. Example is the upper tunels access quest, at 21 my dirge soloed that quest, when my defiler has not even competed it at his level despite trying many times to get it done. Stealth made that possible. There are many other quests that a scout or a smuggled group can do that are a pain to complete otherwise.</blockquote>And that's probably why it's being put in. Too easy for scouts and mages with invis to just bypass the mobs that normally prevent the challenge. Well, you can still bypass them up to a point, but at the clicky you won't be able to stay invis'd and will have to deal with the mobs there. Estate of Unrest is one of the likely problematic areas.Honestly, I've been expecting this for a while. I always thought that being able to click things and not break invis was a bug that the devs would get around to fixing sooner or later, given that many other things you do (casting, harvesting, etc.) break invis.

Tarlok

09-02-2007, 06:34 AM

I still have to deal with see stealth/invis mobs on a lot of quests. The idea to add more of these or 1 or 2 of them around clickies would correct the issue if that is their intent with this change, not this band aid they are applying. Will also mention how this is gonna bork over my ww, who just happens to be my dirge. This change will make invis/stealth totems less disireable.

denmom

09-02-2007, 08:43 AM

<cite>Tarlok wrote:</cite><blockquote>I still have to deal with see stealth/invis mobs on a lot of quests. The idea to add more of these or 1 or 2 of them around clickies would correct the issue if that is their intent with this change, not this band aid they are applying. Will also mention how this is gonna bork over my ww, who just happens to be my dirge. This change will make invis/stealth totems less disireable.</blockquote>Doh, you're right...I utterly didn't think of that angle...the changes to stealth affecting Chameleon and Jaguar Totems.Bleh.

TaleraRis

09-02-2007, 05:17 PM

<cite>Tarlok wrote:</cite><blockquote>I still have to deal with see stealth/invis mobs on a lot of quests. The idea to add more of these or 1 or 2 of them around clickies would correct the issue if that is their intent with this change, not this band aid they are applying. Will also mention how this is gonna bork over my ww, who just happens to be my dirge. This change will make invis/stealth totems less disireable.</blockquote>Or they can do what they already do with some quest updates and make them use gathering instead of just being a clickie.

Zagbab_Dorfbasher

09-02-2007, 05:22 PM

Bah, should use other skills than gathering as well, I was maxed in gathering well before I started training harvesting skills in T1 zones at lvl 70 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Cocytus

09-02-2007, 05:27 PM

Yeah, there's really very little point in stealthing/invising at all anymore. Training by stuff is just as effective...heh.This update went from honestly one of the best and most looked-forward-to updates in EQ history to a joke that [Removed for Content] off a lot of people, quick.

Cuz

09-02-2007, 05:37 PM

<cite>Cocytus wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah, there's really very little point in stealthing/invising at all anymore. Training by stuff is just as effective...heh.This update went from honestly one of the best and most looked-forward-to updates in EQ history to a joke that [Removed for Content] off a lot of people, quick.</blockquote>Best quote since the test notes can out.

TaleraRis

09-02-2007, 05:52 PM

<cite>Zagbab_Dorfbasher wrote:</cite><blockquote>Bah, should use other skills than gathering as well, I was maxed in gathering well before I started training harvesting skills in T1 zones at lvl 70 <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" /></blockquote>Lol, yeah my arasai and the half elf I betrayed over to Darklight are all maxed in gathering and their other skills are pathetic. I do harvest but can never find enough of the other nodes besides wood. I like the quests that involve more than killing, but you're right, they need to branch out to the other skills. But you see my point. If they want to make it break invis, just use the mechanic they've already established. I don't know about the rest of you, but when I first started seeing the previews for EQ2 and saw that gnome disappear, I was sold. I wasn't a ranger at first (troub was my first try) but I knew I wanted to be a scout if they could look that cool while scouting around. Now the very things that make us scouts are one by one being chipped away. I'm not one for absolute dependence on certain classes. I was an enchanter in EQ Live, one of the Holy Trinity, and I wished for a lot more elasticity there in regards to group makeup. But I do feel that archetypes at least should retain their uniqueness. And stealth is something that makes scouts unique.

TaleraRis

09-02-2007, 05:53 PM

<cite>Bah, quote instead of edit</cite>

Ivellious

09-02-2007, 07:49 PM

as I don't like the change, i don't think tis' the number one thing, number one in my book is from lu13.taunts and now resistable, that day most tanks cried, i know i did. nothing like oh god he's goign to chomp him, taunt *berrrrang*"resisted" ......yay......

Iseabeil

09-02-2007, 08:08 PM

<cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tarlok wrote:</cite><blockquote>This 2 second thing is a pain and I think is motivated by upset devs that don't play scouts. I rolled my scout as I could complete quests in t2 that my 35 defiler could not even think about doing without a group. Example is the upper tunels access quest, at 21 my dirge soloed that quest, when my defiler has not even competed it at his level despite trying many times to get it done. Stealth made that possible. There are many other quests that a scout or a smuggled group can do that are a pain to complete otherwise.</blockquote>And that's probably why it's being put in. Too easy for scouts and mages with invis to just bypass the mobs that normally prevent the challenge. Well, you can still bypass them up to a point, but at the clicky you won't be able to stay invis'd and will have to deal with the mobs there. Estate of Unrest is one of the likely problematic areas.Honestly, I've been expecting this for a while. I always thought that being able to click things and not break invis was a bug that the devs would get around to fixing sooner or later, given that many other things you do (casting, harvesting, etc.) break invis.</blockquote>Considering there used to be quests were grabbing things whilst invis was straight out intended, Id hardly agree at any level that it was a bug. If they want you to be invis when pulling the levers in unrest... weel, how about using the very same mechanic they use on every such occassion when they want you invis instead of a blanket nerf, that will hurt a wide range of quests that were never made with the idea that noone can invis and do them.

Armawk

09-02-2007, 08:14 PM

It would be a lot of sense for things that involve a significant physical action to break invis/stealth. Like "dismantle the machine" or "destroy the totem"."read the tablet" or "pick up the ring" are ludicrous reasons to break stealth and take 2 seconds of time though.

Cuz

09-03-2007, 03:02 AM

You know, if the amount of stuff that was in the GU patch notes that wasn't actually implemented in the last GU happens in GU38 we might not have that bad of a patch.

Shotneedle

09-03-2007, 12:10 PM

4th Place: Changes to bruiser buff. This totally puts monks even farther off raids, not that any of you non-monks care <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

ke'la

09-03-2007, 03:11 PM

<cite>TaleraRis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tarlok wrote:</cite><blockquote>I still have to deal with see stealth/invis mobs on a lot of quests. The idea to add more of these or 1 or 2 of them around clickies would correct the issue if that is their intent with this change, not this band aid they are applying. Will also mention how this is gonna bork over my ww, who just happens to be my dirge. This change will make invis/stealth totems less disireable.</blockquote>Or they can do what they already do with some quest updates and make them use gathering instead of just being a clickie. </blockquote>or how about collecting?

Kasar

09-03-2007, 05:26 PM

<cite>Iseabeil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Considering there used to be quests were grabbing things whilst invis was straight out intended, Id hardly agree at any level that it was a bug. If they want you to be invis when pulling the levers in unrest... weel, how about using the very same mechanic they use on every such occassion when they want you invis instead of a blanket nerf, that will hurt a wide range of quests that were never made with the idea that noone can invis and do them.</blockquote>If that's the primary thought, it's just stupid. Those mobs are so slow you just run after a hit or two. I was surprised the first time someone suggested doing it invis.I'm thinking about the simpler quests this affects, like examining rocks among gorgs in TT. Why would examining a pillar break stealth/invis?

Guy De Alsace

09-03-2007, 10:23 PM

The change to widgets in and of itself is up to the designers to tweak and alter. Unfortunately this kind of gamewide change almost never alters any existing content. The original content was designed around players being able to stealth to an update. Thats how the quest went - there was already a way to make you uninvis by instead making it a gathered item. This was done on certain quests.Now, gamewide, all quests that didnt have a gathered component will be permanently altered with no revision to the quest, reward or placement of the updates at all. The social aggro changes already showed how much it swung the difficulty meter way out of whack with the risk vs reward in Pillars of Flame amongst other areas. Nothing was done to cater for social aggro at all. It was just added and we're told "Live with it".Who comes out with this stuff?

Tyrus Dracofire

09-04-2007, 01:39 AM

This is one of main reason why Blackguard and Meanbeard oppose those ideas of nerfing the trivial items instead of focusing on bug issues, now they are gone and those current dev team is slowly destroying this game, i would consider this as R*** to paying account owners that want escapism and role playing purposes.it was suppose to be fantasy game that everyone should enjoy, but now lot of us are angry about nerfing trivial items are senseless and unprofessional. these guys still cant even make a true chair sitting emote or lying on bed sleep emote.not all MMO are that great, and each has it own flaws...eq2 dont have sit/sleep emotes when Lotro does have load of e-motes.but eq2 has "combat-able" horses and wargs when Lotro's horse wasnt built for combat and get knockoff by lowly tiered crabans.Eq2 has superior swimming mode, Lotro cant make players dive to bottom.what my point is, each MMO has 2 sided coins that has flaws and strengths.even Guild wars was good game but it wasnt built as true RPG.in my eyes of SOE and what my opinion is, EQ2 is becoming stale and lack of varieties, and almost to the point it is no longer as true Role Playing Game if they put too much nerfages on trivial stuffs when it is label as fantasy game.they way i just have noticed what EQ2 is becoming almost like Lineage II clone, they do have armor restriction, no fluffs, rigid game theme that has no flexibility is very boring.Blackguard had said that we are suppose to get guild houses almost 2 years ago, and these current dev team are taking a lazy route and too many delays, too many broken promises, they keep nerfing simple stuffs that make no sense when they should be concern with bugs.okay, now we dont send cookies and pizzas to SOE anymore, they are terrible decisions to change something too trivial to the game.Bring back Blackguard! fire those idiots and maybe have smedley resign from CEO post, he seem unfit if not taking action to stop bad decisions that is hurting the game. time to step down from high horse attitude, remember those paying accounts are primary source of incomes for SOE and what happen if there is massive declinings and accounts closed suddenly, and where would SOE able to recover from massive subscription exodus? maybe not.Think twice before offending the folks here playing eq2 or possible facing heavy subscription losses even after "Kunark" novelity wear off after the released.

Ranja

09-04-2007, 11:18 AM

<cite>denmom wrote:</cite><blockquote>The only reason I can see for changing the stealth for scouts is the trivializing of content.I'll admit that yes, I have obtained items needed due to being with a scout and been smuggled to what I need. I've also been invis'd by a mage in the same way.I can see SOE's pov on this...however a scout is canny and sneaky and should be able to slip by the enemy to gain what they need. And they should be able to sneak items and spirit them away.*sigh*</blockquote>Then FD needs to be changed as well. I cannot count how many times I have flopped by an NPC and item and talked while I was FD'd. Or inspected while I was FD. This is a much bigger exploit than stealth - at least in stealth I am not DEAD!

caltiky

09-09-2007, 08:56 PM

This is typical for everquest. they cannot leave anything alone. I would love to be a fly on the wall in some these dev meetings just to see what they have been smoking. they have a strange notion and always had one about eq2 and eq1 "balancing". This latest LU is like the one they did with the release of DOF. They really ticked alot of people off with that one and finally changed alot of things back. IMO most of these balances come from the pvp servers. (FLAME ON), Abunch of classes complain that another class is too powerful in pvp and after they whine enough the class gets nerfed. And instead of just balancing the pvp servers they have to mess with everyone. It all comes down to who best has the devs ear and knows how to complain to the right people. they are killing this game just like eq1. everything has to be so equal and balanced that all classes are the same and we all become clones. It seems to be a theme in MMo's. I agree with the statements that they should be concentrating on the bugs in the game and also making sure the new expansion is as bug free as possible(yeah right). Maybe looking at more server merges to increase population density. There is so much in this game that needs to be fixed without messing with the classes.It really reminds me of the differences between the 1st and second editions of dungeon and dragons vs the new 3.0 and 3.5. you had alot of class distinction in the first 2 versions and now you can have your toon pretty much be whatever you want. Everything is generic.I have been through the forums, AA tree stuff in particular, and all you see is people talking about how their class cant dps like another or heal like that other class. the one that gets me is a healer wanting to dps. you are a healer, if you want to dps make a dps class. I personnaly am a templar. I heal and keep my team alive. I am not there to out dps the zerker or scout. if i wanted that i would have played one. this as well I think causes the nerfs. Some people arent happy with a character that does one things well so they complain that they want to dps like scout, or why cant they have stealth too. sony should stop trying to balance the classes to each other and try to improve their function as a class in the game. again that refers to my comment about pvp. this is where the balancing issues are generated. This class had more of an advantage over that class in pvp so they balance to that standard. Dont get me wrong, I enjoy pvp, it adds a differnt level to the game. But if they want to balance classes for pvp then do it on the pvp servers and leave the pve servers alone. Scouts seem to get alot less love due to their abilities to stealth and sneak up and backstab someone. Same thing with enchanter types mezz and charm, And im sure that this stealth change occured becaused someone cried that it is an unfair advantage because he can stealth and get something and my class cant. WAAAA!!!!Anyway, that is my rant on the subject

Suta

09-11-2007, 05:07 AM

<cite>Terreciel wrote:</cite><blockquote>After reading the last Test Update Notes, I've concluded that the management/PR/dev team got drunk and decided to have a contest to see who could come up with a change that would [Removed for Content] off the largest number of players.Kudos to the status point nerf instigator: You won the Most Hated at Sony prize for this week!</blockquote>Sounds like Brad McQuaid got hired to the EQ2 dev team.

Belaythien

09-11-2007, 07:15 AM

<cite>caltiky wrote:</cite><blockquote>Scouts seem to get alot less love due to their abilities to stealth and sneak up and backstab someone. Same thing with enchanter types mezz and charm, And im sure that this stealth change occured becaused someone cried that it is an unfair advantage because he can stealth and get something and my class cant. WAAAA!!!</blockquote>Stealth is just a fluff spell for scouts. Every class can have as much stealth as they want to. I'm sneaking around with my Inquisitor and Shadowknight just as much as I do with my Dirge. Ok maybe less because those two can kill more mobs than my Dirge but anyway ... just keep 6-8 stealth totems on you and you are set for several days of questing. They only cost a few silver per charge so who cares?I don't think this widget-change is a scout nerf. It nerfs everybody. Today every class is a stealth class <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> From a scout point of view this is of course frustrating. Being sneaky is the central point of every scout in every RPG. However it's getting less and less useful in EQ2 due to the huge amount of stealth seeing mobs and changes like this.

BarrowBott

09-11-2007, 09:14 AM

<cite>Belaythien wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>caltiky wrote:</cite><blockquote>Scouts seem to get alot less love due to their abilities to stealth and sneak up and backstab someone. Same thing with enchanter types mezz and charm, And im sure that this stealth change occured becaused someone cried that it is an unfair advantage because he can stealth and get something and my class cant. WAAAA!!!</blockquote>Stealth is just a fluff spell for scouts. Every class can have as much stealth as they want to. I'm sneaking around with my Inquisitor and Shadowknight just as much as I do with my Dirge. Ok maybe less because those two can kill more mobs than my Dirge but anyway ... just keep 6-8 stealth totems on you and you are set for several days of questing. They only cost a few silver per charge so who cares?I don't think this widget-change is a scout nerf. It nerfs everybody. Today every class is a stealth class <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> From a scout point of view this is of course frustrating. Being sneaky is the central point of every scout in every RPG. However it's getting less and less useful in EQ2 due to the huge amount of stealth seeing mobs and changes like this.</blockquote>You know that they fixed the widgets so they don't break stealth now, right?

Belaythien

09-11-2007, 10:03 AM

<cite>BarrowBottum wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>You know that they fixed the widgets so they don't break stealth now, right?</blockquote>Oh they did? It's hard to keep up with the constant back and forth of recent updates <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Nice change.

Vonotar

09-11-2007, 11:56 AM

<cite>erreciel wrote:</cite><blockquote>After reading the last Test Update Notes, I've concluded that the management/PR/dev team got drunk and decided to have a contest to see who could come up with a change that would [Removed for Content] off the largest number of players.Kudos to the status point nerf instigator: You won the Most Hated at Sony prize for this week!</blockquote>Hands down winner!Well if anybody is sufficiently annoyed to cancel their account (not me personally.. but hey). I believe there is an option in the feedback list for "I didn't like the last LU changes", so feel free to select that option (i.e. don't just skip the list, submit your feedback!).I think this is a classic case of making all the changes that they want to make, but didn't dare before, on the basis that RoK will help to smooth over peoples feelings. Let's face it... in 10 weeks time we will be too busy ooo'ing over RoK to keep up any campaign to reverse any poor LU changes.

Kenazeer

09-11-2007, 12:25 PM

This isn't a democracy, and the devs are in possession of far more knowledge than we are. Changes for the betterment of the game need to be made regardless of whether they are "popular" or "kicks in the head." I will say they needed to do a better job at communicating these cahnges beforehand, but this is a "good" change in that it is a step in the right direction. There may be "better" refineminements coming down the pike, but if the problem is immediate, and the choices are to put in a partial fix or wait until you have a perfect fix, well... common sense answers that question. Whatever the reason, and regardless of how popular an idea is, the devs make decisions they believe are for the long term health of the game. Since LU1 people have been [I cannot control my vocabulary] and moaning about this or that. The game has yet to fall to pieces, and the track record states the games population is still on an incline. I think, given the track record of Scott and his team, SOE deserves the benefit of the doubt as they have demonstrated an ability to make good long term decisions. The forum posters? Bleh....most can't see past their own individual desires or tastes.

rvbarton

09-11-2007, 12:45 PM

<cite>Kenazeer wrote:</cite><blockquote>This isn't a democracy, and the devs are in possession of far more knowledge than we are. Changes for the betterment of the game need to be made regardless of whether they are "popular" or "kicks in the head." I will say they needed to do a better job at communicating these cahnges beforehand, but this is a "good" change in that it is a step in the right direction. There may be "better" refineminements coming down the pike, but if the problem is immediate, and the choices are to put in a partial fix or wait until you have a perfect fix, well... common sense answers that question. Whatever the reason, and regardless of how popular an idea is, the devs make decisions they believe are for the long term health of the game. Since LU1 people have been [I cannot control my vocabulary] and moaning about this or that. The game has yet to fall to pieces, and the track record states the games population is still on an incline. I think, given the track record of Scott and his team, SOE deserves the benefit of the doubt as they have demonstrated an ability to make good long term decisions. The forum posters? Bleh....most can't see past their own individual desires or tastes.</blockquote>Here here... I completely agree with this. Just because the developers do not list, in exquisite detail, what their long term goals are, does NOT give you the right to bash them. If you dont' like it, go play world of warcraft. I'd enjoy seeing a few of the whiners move on to other games/boards.

Vonotar

09-11-2007, 12:50 PM

<cite>Kenazeer wrote:</cite><blockquote>This isn't a democracy, and the devs are in possession of far more knowledge than we are. Changes for the betterment of the game need to be made regardless of whether they are "popular" or "kicks in the head." I will say they needed to do a better job at communicating these cahnges beforehand, but this is a "good" change in that it is a step in the right direction. There may be "better" refineminements coming down the pike, but if the problem is immediate, and the choices are to put in a partial fix or wait until you have a perfect fix, well... common sense answers that question. Whatever the reason, and regardless of how popular an idea is, the devs make decisions they believe are for the long term health of the game. Since LU1 people have been [I cannot control my vocabulary] and moaning about this or that. The game has yet to fall to pieces, and the track record states the games population is still on an incline. I think, given the track record of Scott and his team, SOE deserves the benefit of the doubt as they have demonstrated an ability to make good long term decisions. The forum posters? Bleh....most can't see past their own individual desires or tastes.</blockquote>A step in which 'right direction'... supposedly the change is to prevent status item hording or farming by capped guilds, but instead it will prevent low level players from being able to contribute to medium level guilds via status items.... 'Good'?? That must be the Freeportian definition of 'Good'.Actually myself and my guild will see little impact from this change as the majority of members are above our current guild level, but I look at the wider issue and wonder why the Dev's want to punish the little guys in a misguided attempt to hurt the capped guilds and players...

Kenazeer

09-11-2007, 01:10 PM

<cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>A step in which 'right direction'... supposedly the change is to prevent status item hording or farming by capped guilds, but instead it will prevent low level players from being able to contribute to medium level guilds via status items.... 'Good'?? That must be the Freeportian definition of 'Good'.That is your, and many others, assumption. A dev has never chimed in as to why this is being done so supposedly is the operative word. A good change is one in which the intended mechanics of the game conform to reality, regardless of whether we as individuals see it as good. Perhaps they are altering the levelling curve, perhaps they are adding more rewards at lower levels, perhaps the higher level rewards are so good they want them to actually mean something, perhaps status loots were never intended to play as a large a part in the guild levelling process as they have become, etc... No one knows at this point, so we will just have to wait and see.Actually myself and my guild will see little impact from this change as the majority of members are above our current guild level, but I look at the wider issue and wonder why the Dev's want to punish the little guys in a misguided attempt to hurt the capped guilds and players...This statement is based on presumption also and may or may not be true. Is a "little guy" hurt if his guilds has more rewards open to them as a result of this change? Is a "little guy" hurt if it is now easier, overall, to level lower level guilds? Is a "little guy" hurt if they change writs to be a better alternative than status loots for gaining guild status? Once again, no one yet knows.Although I have disagreed with a lot of changes the game has made since 11-04, sometimes even vehemently, I have come to recognize that Scott and his devs actually have a pretty good track record. I say we give them time to explain the reasoning and then see how things pan out.</blockquote>

Wheeze

09-12-2007, 01:16 AM

I must be in the minority here, because I like these changes quite a bit. And I even like the way the fluff system is set up. I think the status item changes is a *fantastic* idea - the only thing I'll say there is that it should have been done a long, long time ago. I think the stealth changes make sense for the most part, though I'm sure it'll be tweaked in the coming weeks, what with all the silly whining. And if a level 20 player can't contribute tiny status items to a level 60 guild, I also think that makes sense - I think all the raging on that point is completely ridiculous.I look forward to LU38!

Sabutai

09-12-2007, 11:01 AM

<cite>Wheeze wrote:</cite><blockquote>I must be in the minority here, because I like these changes quite a bit. And I even like the way the fluff system is set up. I think the status item changes is a *fantastic* idea - the only thing I'll say there is that it should have been done a long, long time ago. I think the stealth changes make sense for the most part, though I'm sure it'll be tweaked in the coming weeks, what with all the silly whining. And if a level 20 player can't contribute tiny status items to a level 60 guild, I also think that makes sense - I think all the raging on that point is completely ridiculous.I look forward to LU38!</blockquote>I agree, all the whiners out there complaining about the status loot items. Waaah. I can't turn in my 300,000 status items that I spent stupid money on to plat farmers. Waaah. Give me a break. The status loot items were broken from day 1, I'm glad they fixed them. Gaining 10 guild levels in a matter of hours after the cap is increased was stupid, would be nice to have the level titles actually mean something. And all those people out there forget, or conviently leave out, the fact that there are writs you can do for status. And now with the share quest command, is stupid easy with 2 or more people. So if you're guild is level 30 and you have 100s of level 10 characters out there with lots of status items, all I can say is, do some HQs stop whining, and actually enjoy the rewards when you finally get them.

Sunrayn

09-12-2007, 01:43 PM

<cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree, all the whiners out there complaining about the status loot items. Waaah. I can't turn in my 300,000 status items that I spent stupid money on to plat farmers. Waaah. Give me a break. The status loot items were broken from day 1, I'm glad they fixed them. Gaining 10 guild levels in a matter of hours after the cap is increased was stupid, would be nice to have the level titles actually mean something. And all those people out there forget, or conviently leave out, the fact that there are writs you can do for status. And now with the share quest command, is stupid easy with 2 or more people. So if you're guild is level 30 and you have 100s of level 10 characters out there with lots of status items, all I can say is, do some HQs stop whining, and actually enjoy the rewards when you finally get them.</blockquote>Hmmm....Waste of time stacking up useless guild status loot....Here is what I would do if I were in one of those guilds that hit max level within a few hours or days of raising the cap.Every member of my guild would make a few alts and begin PL'ing them up while grabbing every HQ...Buuuut, they wouldnt complete them..just to the last step..then...wait till the cap increases, Mentor..or not mentor, doesnt matter, you still get guild status, and start hailing, killing the last mob, crafting, whatever...If we were still short on capping...no prob, put together a couple guild raids, and get the status from them too...Bingo, I have a maxed level guild...

Fromingo

09-12-2007, 03:39 PM

Yeah these are pretty stupid changes especially the scout changes. Just what ARE scouts if they can't use stealth to their advantage. Well they are no longer scouts so I guess the non-bards scouts should just be concidered light attack classes while the bards are heavy support classes. None are a SCOUT.

OutcastBlade

09-13-2007, 12:38 AM

The problem with this game is we have too many roll-players, and not enough role-players.Seriously... Scouts are now useless at scouting? I am no longer a scout because I am no longer able to modify the world around me without drawing attention? What nonsensical rubbish is this? I can still smuggle my group through most zones no problem.I can still sneak my way through most zones no problem. (Except New Tunaria, [Removed for Content] you New Tunaria)I can still track mobs no problem.So I can't pull a lever without a mob noticing me... I can't fiddle around with widgets without drawing attention to myself... etc... Oh my, I should kill my character off and create a new one. Maybe I should create a bruiser. No thanks.I am not [Removed for Content] off with this change. I am understanding of it... In the boardrooms I can imagine them saying: "How can we make this game a little more difficult to play? We need it to be more challenging." Well good job imo, you just did.Guild Status Loot is another issue I have with most of you. The devs took away your ability to exploit a flawed system. Quit crying and level your guild properly. Hoarding T2 status loot doesn't require any kind of skill or sacrifice. It's a cheap way to make your guild level cap out, and I have no sympathy for any of you who spent dozens of plat buying these useless items. XMAS is coming up, give this loot to guilds that can use it. HAH!Bruisers... huh, well maybe now you won't kick my [Removed for Content] so much in a group parse when we fight a multitude of enemies. My condolences... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />I like the game. I like how far it has come from the disappointment it was in '04. It's because of the devs, and because of the CONSTRUCTIVE feedback from the non-whiners on the forums, that this game kicks [Removed for Content]. Because of this, I tend to put a little trust into the devs to do the right thing. I honestly don't see where they haven't in this update.

Lortet

09-13-2007, 02:22 AM

<cite>Kanolth@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Guild Status Loot is another issue I have with most of you. The devs took away your ability to exploit a flawed system. Quit crying and level your guild properly. Hoarding T2 status loot doesn't require any kind of skill or sacrifice. It's a cheap way to make your guild level cap out, and I have no sympathy for any of you who spent dozens of plat buying these useless items. XMAS is coming up, give this loot to guilds that can use it. HAH!</blockquote>Ahh - so it doesn't affect your particular guild or playstyle, so therefore everyone it affects is a hoarder cheating to raise the guild level. Sounds like a balanced argument - not. Read the posts - I have seen one of them from a guild leader who stated this was the reason he didn't like it, and literally hundreds scattered across the forum decrying it. Not hoarders, just disaffected players who had a small but noticeable change to their game made simply to control something not applicable to them. I don't mind you agreeing with the change, but assuming that it is on the basis they must all be cheating hoarders is plain incorrect. Note - I do HQ's and I do writs - but status point items picked up by my characters rated about 1/3 of my overall guild status - and with 12 characters in a lvl 60 guild that 1/3 is 11/12 gone atm.

theriatis

09-13-2007, 05:42 AM

Hi Kanolth,that sentence with the Boardroom just caught my Attention. Why ? I wonder why they ask themselves in the Boardroom:"How can we make this game more difficult to play ?"and NOT:"How can we fix the Bugs in this game ?" or "How can we fix the Lag in this game ?" or "How can we add features that we promised since launch to this game ?" or "How can we finally get a good translation without causing Eye-bleeding or Lag in this game ?" or "Why are we cutting gameplay down and not adding to it ?`(Talk about the Crafting process and the Ideas there were -> The Everfrost crafting Isle was not supposed to be there just for fluff) or "How can we add more content ?" or.... or.... or....You got the point, didn't you ? If you don't please read my Sig.Regards, theriatis.P.S. The Translation DOES make your eyes bleed. And no, a 30 seconds Lag in a Raidzone (EH) is NOT acceptable... as is a 10 sec. Lag everytime a Charm / Delevel occurs in MMIS. And where is the Shard of Hate / Fear ? Don't even let me start on Sit on Chair/Lay on Bed Emotes or Guildhalls...