Miracle shot...

[Nulad]

<span class="postbody"><p>Ranger</p><ul><li>The Miracle shot line now requires the ranger to acquire the target with line of sight. The actual shot does not require it though.</li></ul>Other than it's use for when the games line of sight vs a step or mob in wall syndrone is getting in the way and as additional damage output what is the point of this skill, 95% of the time it has no use as any time it *could* be usefull you have to clear the area anyway due to social agro thus negating the need to pull anything from a position where you cannot see it.</span>

[Beldin_]

<p>Afaik the skill was exploited by players to pull mobs in dungeons through roofs and ceilings with /target mobname and "steal" the mobs maybe from other players who were regulary fighting there way to the mob.</p><p>You can still do that what i always did with it, and thats simply target a mob, walk on max range or a saver spot, and pull the mob, even if walls or whatever are in line of sight. A good example is pulling the young dragon from the roof over HoF directly to the HoF entrance.</p>

[jarlaxle8]

<cite>Nuladen@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><span class="postbody"><p>Ranger</p><ul><li>The Miracle shot line now requires the ranger to acquire the target with line of sight. The actual shot does not require it though.</li></ul>Other than it's use for when the games line of sight vs a step or mob in wall syndrone is getting in the way and as additional damage output what is the point of this skill, 95% of the time it has no use as any time it *could* be usefull you have to clear the area anyway due to social agro thus negating the need to pull anything from a position where you cannot see it.</span></blockquote><p>You only have to clear if other mobs stand in agro range of the mob you want to pull. For example in New Tunaria in that arcane tower way back is a named on top floor that basically stands alone, there are just some mobs in lower room that don't see stealth. So I was able to pull the named outside so A) I didn't need to clear those mobs, B) I could choose my battle ground (outside where I can move) and C) I got a head start on the mob so he couldn't nuke me on the pull.</p><p> Ok, this is just one situation. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> But there are probably other places where I was glad I could pull a mob to any place in range without LoS.</p>

[The_Real_Ohno]

Wasent this all nerfed with the /target nerf few LUs ago?

[jarlaxle8]

<cite>Ohnoez@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wasent this all nerfed with the /target nerf few LUs ago?</blockquote>Yeah, should have. I wonder what this change means. I hope it's still possible to use implied target or /assist...

[Gareorn]

I asked about this on the test feed back forums. I'm not sure what it means. Currently there are several instances where I can target a mob because it's in my field of view, or viewable from 3rd person view. I target and shoot. Does this mean that we'll not longer be able to target a mob that doesn't have the ranged LOS, or does it mean we can not shoot at implied targets? This is really cryptic.

[El Dominion]

<p>Looks to me like you going to have to target the mob yourself, and then move back out of sight to shoot in safety. I guess no longer will you be able to pull the tanks target for the group/raid.</p><p>Edit for typo</p>

[Gareorn]

That can't be right. If this was true, then we wouldn't be able to use Miracle while assisting through an MA either. This would break the ability. Brega, I know you play on test. Can you test this out and see what the devs are really trying to say, please?

[Vatec]

Basically this change has no effect on soloers, as far as I can tell.  As a frequent soloer, I've tested the limits of targetting before and, as far as I know, there's no reliable way to target something without line of sight.  Definitely can't tab to something you can't see.  Maybe using /target_nearest_npc, though I've never seen =that= work around corners yet either....So, given the above, if this is implemented as described, it will only affect Rangers in groups who might have been acquiring their target indirectly through another group member.  The only way I can see this mattering is in the case of mobs that can see stealth but can't see invisible (Ranger targetting through an invisible group member when the Ranger would have set off agro while acquiring the target).So basically it complicates targetting in groups and doesn't solve any problems I am aware of.  So I can't see why they're wasting dev effort implementing this in the first place....

[Ranja]

<cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote>Basically this change has no effect on soloers, as far as I can tell.  As a frequent soloer, I've tested the limits of targetting before and, as far as I know, there's no reliable way to target something without line of sight.  Definitely can't tab to something you can't see.  Maybe using /target_nearest_npc, though I've never seen =that= work around corners yet either....So, given the above, if this is implemented as described, it will only affect Rangers in groups who might have been acquiring their target indirectly through another group member.  The only way I can see this mattering is in the case of mobs that can see stealth but can't see invisible (Ranger targetting through an invisible group member when the Ranger would have set off agro while acquiring the target).So basically it complicates targetting in groups and doesn't solve any problems I am aware of.  So I can't see why they're wasting dev effort implementing this in the first place....</blockquote>The problem they are solving is /target npc_name which always worked. I could zone into a zone use that command and then pull the mob from the entrance without ever seeing it. It was being used as a way to bypass content to get to the named. Now you will have to actually acquire the target yourself (through invis) or through another player.This happened awhile ago and is really not as complicated as people are making it out to be.

[Bre]

<p>Targetting through someone while you do not have LoS still works fine. </p><p>Brega - 70 Ranger, Test Server</p>

[Vatec]

<cite>Ranja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote>Basically this change has no effect on soloers, as far as I can tell.  As a frequent soloer, I've tested the limits of targetting before and, as far as I know, there's no reliable way to target something without line of sight.  Definitely can't tab to something you can't see.  Maybe using /target_nearest_npc, though I've never seen =that= work around corners yet either....So, given the above, if this is implemented as described, it will only affect Rangers in groups who might have been acquiring their target indirectly through another group member.  The only way I can see this mattering is in the case of mobs that can see stealth but can't see invisible (Ranger targetting through an invisible group member when the Ranger would have set off agro while acquiring the target).So basically it complicates targetting in groups and doesn't solve any problems I am aware of.  So I can't see why they're wasting dev effort implementing this in the first place....</blockquote>The problem they are solving is /target npc_name which always worked. I could zone into a zone use that command and then pull the mob from the entrance without ever seeing it. It was being used as a way to bypass content to get to the named. Now you will have to actually acquire the target yourself (through invis) or through another player.This happened awhile ago and is really not as complicated as people are making it out to be.</blockquote>Ah.  Well, that does sound like an exploit.  Guess I don't have the "mentality of an exploiter" because I never even considered trying that.  Seems like it would only be of limited use (between social agro and the named hitting the end of its leash), but yeah, I can see why they might want to fix that.  As long as it doesn't impact the ability to use implied targetting or any of the other legitimate uses, then I guess it's OK by me ;^)As usual, SOE's description of how an ability works leaves a great deal to be desired.  Goodness knows, all those "this casts a spell on X which has a chance of casting a buff which might result in a chance to cast a debuff on target Y if caster Z trips over the hem of his robe" spells are really confusing :^P

[Ranja]

<cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ranja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote>Basically this change has no effect on soloers, as far as I can tell.  As a frequent soloer, I've tested the limits of targetting before and, as far as I know, there's no reliable way to target something without line of sight.  Definitely can't tab to something you can't see.  Maybe using /target_nearest_npc, though I've never seen =that= work around corners yet either....So, given the above, if this is implemented as described, it will only affect Rangers in groups who might have been acquiring their target indirectly through another group member.  The only way I can see this mattering is in the case of mobs that can see stealth but can't see invisible (Ranger targetting through an invisible group member when the Ranger would have set off agro while acquiring the target).So basically it complicates targetting in groups and doesn't solve any problems I am aware of.  So I can't see why they're wasting dev effort implementing this in the first place....</blockquote>The problem they are solving is /target npc_name which always worked. I could zone into a zone use that command and then pull the mob from the entrance without ever seeing it. It was being used as a way to bypass content to get to the named. Now you will have to actually acquire the target yourself (through invis) or through another player.This happened awhile ago and is really not as complicated as people are making it out to be.</blockquote>Ah.  Well, that does sound like an exploit.  Guess I don't have the "mentality of an exploiter" because I never even considered trying that.  Seems like it would only be of limited use (between social agro and the named hitting the end of its leash), but yeah, I can see why they might want to fix that.  As long as it doesn't impact the ability to use implied targetting or any of the other legitimate uses, then I guess it's OK by me ;^)As usual, SOE's description of how an ability works leaves a great deal to be desired.  Goodness knows, all those "this casts a spell on X which has a chance of casting a buff which might result in a chance to cast a debuff on target Y if caster Z trips over the hem of his robe" spells are really confusing :^P</blockquote>Yes this is a good point. I am not altogether sure that the person that writes the spell description has english as a first language. The descriptions are obtuse at best, wrong at worst. It is obvious that a developer wrote those descriptions <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[The_Real_Ohno]

<cite>Ranja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote>Basically this change has no effect on soloers, as far as I can tell.  As a frequent soloer, I've tested the limits of targetting before and, as far as I know, there's no reliable way to target something without line of sight.  Definitely can't tab to something you can't see.  Maybe using /target_nearest_npc, though I've never seen =that= work around corners yet either....So, given the above, if this is implemented as described, it will only affect Rangers in groups who might have been acquiring their target indirectly through another group member.  The only way I can see this mattering is in the case of mobs that can see stealth but can't see invisible (Ranger targetting through an invisible group member when the Ranger would have set off agro while acquiring the target).So basically it complicates targetting in groups and doesn't solve any problems I am aware of.  So I can't see why they're wasting dev effort implementing this in the first place....</blockquote>The problem they are solving is /target npc_name which always worked. I could zone into a zone use that command and then pull the mob from the entrance without ever seeing it. It was being used as a way to bypass content to get to the named. Now you will have to actually acquire the target yourself (through invis) or through another player.This happened awhile ago and is really not as complicated as people are making it out to be.</blockquote><p>Yes, but this was still fixed when they nerfed /target</p><p>As of right now, u cant just type /target npc w/e u still need LoS.</p>

[Gareorn]

<cite>Ohnoez@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ranja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vatec wrote:</cite><blockquote>Basically this change has no effect on soloers, as far as I can tell.  As a frequent soloer, I've tested the limits of targetting before and, as far as I know, there's no reliable way to target something without line of sight.  Definitely can't tab to something you can't see.  Maybe using /target_nearest_npc, though I've never seen =that= work around corners yet either....So, given the above, if this is implemented as described, it will only affect Rangers in groups who might have been acquiring their target indirectly through another group member.  The only way I can see this mattering is in the case of mobs that can see stealth but can't see invisible (Ranger targetting through an invisible group member when the Ranger would have set off agro while acquiring the target).So basically it complicates targetting in groups and doesn't solve any problems I am aware of.  So I can't see why they're wasting dev effort implementing this in the first place....</blockquote>The problem they are solving is /target npc_name which always worked. I could zone into a zone use that command and then pull the mob from the entrance without ever seeing it. It was being used as a way to bypass content to get to the named. Now you will have to actually acquire the target yourself (through invis) or through another player.This happened awhile ago and is really not as complicated as people are making it out to be.</blockquote><p>Yes, but this was still fixed when they nerfed /target</p><p>As of right now, u cant just type /target npc w/e u still need LoS.</p></blockquote>Agree!  They already fixed it it so [/target npc] no longer works.  The way this change is written, sounds like they are fixing it again and that can't be right.

[EQ2Magroo]

I'm not sure, but maybe the reason they have to do this is that you could send a cloaked player up through a dungeon to get near the mob and target it, then the Ranger could target through that player and pull a mob through the wall ?That's the only thing I can think of that the devs might think is an exploit, because currently Miracle Shot is pretty useless other than the fact that it deals damage i.e. there's not much miracle involved.

[Bre]

<p>You still can use someone else to aquire the target for you. I tested this today. In TT I had a Sin friend target (we were grouped) Princess Pollencia, we manuvered so he had LoS but i was behind some serious rocks. No way to have LoS. I started with no target, he aquired target, I targetted him and shot the lil princess. Repeated on some misc mobs in BM just to make sure. Also tried the old /target trick. </p><p>Look, I'm feeling like rewarmed toad crap today, I have a sinus headache that has me seriously considering drilling holes in my head. So I really really could have missed something. But all I can figure is it was a misprint somehow. </p><p>And on a completely unrelated note. *(^%^$@# SOE for changing the appearance tab!. The boiled leather stuff looked downright sweet on us. A darkish black with a not ugly trim. And you could even use the black silk chest from CMM to spice it up even more. Only drawback I saw was that I needed an HK MP-5, tac gear, and a throat mic and I would have looked like a swat team member with lightsabers.</p><p>Brega - Caged Test Monkey w/350 safefall, alchohol tolerance, and tinkering. iow i r a masochist.</p>

[LoreLady]

I dont understand the need for the change. Currently you have to be able to see the mob at some point to target it. Doing a /target MOB doesnt work if you cannot see it, so why would they need to change the ability? The only mob I can really think of changing it on is the guy who drops the necromatic orb and having a longarm in stock thats exploitive, but thats it.

[Beldin_]

<p>Btw.: I didn't read that in the actual Test Udate notes.</p><p>Before beating a dead horse .. is someone shure that the opener not only asked for the changes to /target some months ago ?</p><p>In Test Update Notes LU#38 the only about ranger is :</p><p>Ranger * Fettering Poison now correctly increases snare amount. </p><p>[edit]</p><p>Ahh .. this seems to be the answer :</p><p>>> 5) For miracle shot, there used to be a /usea "miracleshot" <player> (or mob) that would allow unintended things to happen.</p>

[Gareorn]

<cite>Shalla@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>>> 5) For miracle shot, there used to be a /usea "miracleshot" <player> (or mob) that would allow unintended things to happen.</p></blockquote>If this is still possible, then I understand the test note.  I didn't realize this was possible, I thought it was fixed at the same time the /target mob was fixed.  Makes a little more sense now.

[The_Real_Ohno]

It was nerfed when /target nerf went live, does not work on live.