Appearance slots - please add a few invisible armor items

[quasigenx]

Love the new appearance slots! I have a suggestion, however. Some of us would like to keep select slots "bare", ie not have that slot show any armor graphic. It looks like if you leave the new appearance slots empty, it defaults back to your regular armor item. That makes perfect sense.One easy work-around would be to implement a small set of no-graphic cloth armor items. Perhaps the barber could sell them? This way, there is no need to implement a more complicated version of the appearance tab to allow the players to select "no-graphic". Also, it allows the devs to decide which armor slots should be allowed to be left blank. Do we really want people running around without pants? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I suggest Chest (males only), shoulders, wrists and hands. Perhaps the following items?<ul><li>Emperor's New Cloth Tunic (males only, works like the status clothing for male/female)</li><li>Emperor's New Cloth Shawl</li><li>Emperor's New Cloth Bracers</li><li>Emperor's New Cloth Gloves</li></ul>

[Novusod]

The only problem I have with this is there is already too much instant gratification in this game. Mind you there are a few "invisible armor items" already in the game due to bugs most likely. They are just extreamely obscure and hard find. I have have worked long and hard to collect some of them I don't think they should just be giving the rareist items in the game away for free. If more invisible armor is added it should also be hard to get.

[quasigenx]

I guess I have no problem with that. However, I don't think there are invisible items for chest pieces, or bracers as far as I know. The only hand item reported is monk/bruiser, etc.There seems to be many people who would like to seem empty armor slots. If a system like the above could be implemented in little or no time, then it would seem like an easy win for the all involved.

[Novusod]

The Talvus Linked Tunic from lesser Faydark causes the SOGA models to bug and appear chestless. There are several gloves that cause the bracers to disappear. This screencap I took from the test server shows how these armor pieces can be used to make a nearly armorless charactor.<img src="http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e38/Novuso/EverQuest/AppearanceTab2.jpg" alt="" border="0" />

[quasigenx]

Cool. Is that chest piece trick SOGA only?

[Nayurayne]

Actually I wouldn't mind some bare options. I always play female characters as I generally like my characters to at least in some way relect how I am in real life. I know this thread was originally ment for male options but I would like some bare female options too. Bare arms and chest being a big one. Now before anyone gets upset I'm not talking about bare chests on things like High Elves. I mean for races like Iksar and the upcoming Sarnak. I would like to show off my pretty scales instead of having them hid by the ugly white female underwear. I mean these races have nothing to show off....really.

[quasigenx]

<cite>Nayukhuut wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now before anyone gets upset I'm not talking about bare chests on things like High Elves. I mean for races like Iksar and the upcoming Sarnak. I would like to show off my pretty scales instead of having them hid by the ugly white female underwear.</blockquote>Interesting, I didn't think of that. Good idea! Can clothing be race specific as of now, though? Might be a harder change. Or the chest item could be female as well, and would just show the starter female undershirt.

[Sylphier]

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>The only problem I have with this is there is <span style="font-size: small;">already too much instant gratification in this game.</span> Mind you there are a few "invisible armor items" already in the game due to bugs most likely. They are just extreamely obscure and hard find. I have have worked long and hard to collect some of them I don't think they should just be giving the rareist items in the game away for free. If more invisible armor is added it should also be hard to get.</blockquote>so what you are saying is, "don't do this because this will make people happy." Why are you against making people happy?I hate the logic of forums sometimes. It doesn't matter how much your idea makes sense, some random yahoo will argue the exact opposite for no reason at all. The players want it, devs, please listen and give it to us.one more thing:<span style="font-size: large;">We need invisible feet for the Halflings! PLEASE!</span>

[Sylphier]

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Talvus Linked Tunic from lesser Faydark causes the SOGA models to bug and appear chestless. There are several gloves that cause the bracers to disappear. This screencap I took from the test server shows how these armor pieces can be used to make a nearly armorless charactor.</blockquote>This is a bug. Players shouldn't be forced to exploit a bug and switch to the horrible looking soga models so they can play how they want. Putting in graphic-less armor makes so much more sense than this.

[quasigenx]

<cite>Clovis@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><span style="font-size: large;">We need invisible feet for the Halflings! PLEASE!</span></blockquote>If invisible boots are put in, could the barber also sell oder eaters? Thanks!

[Novusod]

<cite>Clovis@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Talvus Linked Tunic from lesser Faydark causes the SOGA models to bug and appear chestless. There are several gloves that cause the bracers to disappear. This screencap I took from the test server shows how these armor pieces can be used to make a nearly armorless charactor.</blockquote>This is a bug. Players shouldn't be forced to exploit a bug and switch to the horrible looking soga models so they can play how they want. Putting in graphic-less armor makes so much more sense than this.</blockquote>I am not opposed to the concept of graphicless armor I just think it should be harder to get then spending a few gold at an NPC merchant or common crafted item. Something like making the talvus linked tunic work in both SOGA and original models would be great.

[mellowknees72]

<cite>Clovis@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>The only problem I have with this is there is <span style="font-size: small;">already too much instant gratification in this game.</span> Mind you there are a few "invisible armor items" already in the game due to bugs most likely. They are just extreamely obscure and hard find. I have have worked long and hard to collect some of them I don't think they should just be giving the rareist items in the game away for free. If more invisible armor is added it should also be hard to get.</blockquote>so what you are saying is, "don't do this because this will make people happy." Why are you against making people happy?I hate the logic of forums sometimes. It doesn't matter how much your idea makes sense, some random yahoo will argue the exact opposite for no reason at all. The players want it, devs, please listen and give it to us.one more thing:<b><span style="font-size: large;">We need invisible feet for the Halflings! PLEASE!</span></b></blockquote><p>/agree 100%!!</p><p>I play pretty much ALL halflings...and no self-respecting halfling would really wear shoes.  I mean, come on...that's why we have big, tough, fuzzy feet!!</p><p>For those who don't want invisible armor to be "instant gratification" - how about making it a Mastercrafted item?  More stuff for tailors to sell...more stuff to use rare ingredients...more stuff to keep the economy flowing.</p><p>And for races who don't have "goodies" on their female chests (i.e. Iksar and Sarnak), what about an option of whether or not to show the undershirt?</p>

[acctlc]

I agree whole heartedly with the option to have invisible armor options. As a female high elf (mage) I'd love to run around with my arms and hands bare. If there is some way to implement this, it would make this addition of visual armor slots absolutely heavenly in the game.

[Enever]

I agree, We need invisible pieces of armor. Arms, sleeves, gloves, and boots. These are all what I want to have transparent available for.The ratonga would be great for the transparent boots as well, even the gloves. The claws are a nice addition to them.

[Zabjade]

<cite>Nayukhuut wrote:</cite><blockquote>Actually I wouldn't mind some bare options. I always play female characters as I generally like my characters to at least in some way relect how I am in real life. I know this thread was originally ment for male options but I would like some bare female options too. Bare arms and chest being a big one. Now before anyone gets upset I'm not talking about bare chests on things like High Elves. I mean for races like Iksar and the upcoming Sarnak. I would like to show off my pretty scales instead of having them hid by the ugly white female underwear. I mean these races have nothing to show off....really.</blockquote>Iks<span style="color: #00cc00;">ar females have Frilliks the frills on the back sides of their heads.</span>

[SugarGirl]

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>The only problem I have with this is there is already too much instant gratification in this game. Mind you there are a few "invisible armor items" already in the game due to bugs most likely. They are just extreamely obscure and hard find. I have have worked long and hard to collect some of them I don't think they should just be giving the rareist items in the game away for free. If more invisible armor is added it should also be hard to get.</blockquote><p>This is about the most ridiculous post I've read... and I have read a lot of them. I can understand someone asking that raid gear not be handed out in solo instances, but to say that no one should be able customize their appearance to their liking because you went out and collected a bunch of bugged armor... well that's just silly. </p><p>I </p>

[Lunah]

Yes please...boots, bracers, shoulders, and gloves for sure. My trouby wearing the dresses and formal wear look awfully silly with blue bard gloves, bracers, and boots on. And honestly any of the non humanoid (ratonga, iksar, froglok, sarnak) should be able to go topless as well male or female. My biggest pet peeve for all my 4 70s is the non matching armor they had and this change is very welcome. But unless I put them all in robes some armor will still show through with the dresses. I like the idea of it just being pieces from the barber..easy money sink to put in and helps us customize our character appearance..and that is what the barbers are for anyways.

[xOnaton1]

Currently the tailored burlap shoulders and bracers (level 10) are invisible. This might be a bug though.I would suggest that tailors could make the invisible items wearable by mages, druids, and brawlers and armor smiths make the invisible clothes for clerics, shamen, scouts, crusaders, and warriors. Or, maybe tinkerers could make some since invisible clothes are a pretty fancy technology.Othesus - Dirge - Lucan DLereVaspar - Fury - Lucan DLere

[quasigenx]

Does anyone know of invisible items already in the game? These are the two I know of:aITEM 1253186553 665263696<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />ristine Tailored Burlap Shawl/aaITEM -1224459361 -1856871699:Faded Wraps/a NOTE: Only certain classes can get this from the n00b quests in Darklight.Someone just mentioned the Burlap bracer. Can anyone confirm?I'm hoping there are more generically available hands, and especially the holy-grail chest piece! Anyone?See this thread:<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=379352" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=379352</a>

[ke'la]

I could be wrong but I beleave the "invisable" chest peace from the Gnomeland Security Quests is "shirtless" for Males and I KNOW its a green and white dress for females.

[Novusod]

If you are referring to the Stealth Suit from gnomeland then no it not invisable though it would be nice if it was:aITEM 2121173134 -423917716:Hepplewhite's Stealth Suit/aIf you wear chain armor and use SOGA models you might want to check this out:aITEM -841832551 -1125889051:Talvus Linked Tunic/a

[Raveller]

<p>And I thought the 2007 Worst Idea Ever Competetion was over. How wrong I was.</p><p>If you don't want to be seen wearing armor, then don't wear any [Removed for Content]' armor! Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.</p><p>If you don't want your halfling to wear shoes (please note that we're not playing Tolkien Hobbits, so halflings can wear shoes if they want) then don't put any shoes on your halfling.</p><p>None of this is rocket science.</p><p>And I thought whining was limited to crafting threads.</p>

[Novusod]

<cite>Raveller wrote:</cite><blockquote>And I thought whining was limited to crafting threads.</blockquote>What about all the whining in the bard threads or the brawler threads, or the Ranger threads, or the anything to do with pvp threads. And lets not forget about the whining about all the other whiners here. Welcome to the Everwhine forums lol. /sarcasmSeriously just chill.

[quasigenx]

<cite>Raveller wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>And I thought the 2007 Worst Idea Ever Competetion was over. How wrong I was.</p>...<p>And I thought whining was limited to crafting threads.</p></blockquote>No one is whining; there isn't even a dissenting opinion yet, except you. Looks like you're the one off base.Not wearing armor means no stat bonuses. That's not a solution. You could have made the same argument that the visible slots were not needed because you could just wear what you wanted. Looks like the devs thought you were wrong on that count. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Nayurayne]

<cite>Zabjade wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nayukhuut wrote:</cite><blockquote>Actually I wouldn't mind some bare options. I always play female characters as I generally like my characters to at least in some way relect how I am in real life. I know this thread was originally ment for male options but I would like some bare female options too. Bare arms and chest being a big one. Now before anyone gets upset I'm not talking about bare chests on things like High Elves. I mean for races like Iksar and the upcoming Sarnak. I would like to show off my pretty scales instead of having them hid by the ugly white female underwear. I mean these races have nothing to show off....really.</blockquote>Iks<span style="color: #00cc00;">ar females have Frilliks the frills on the back sides of their heads.</span></blockquote><p>Er not trying to be rude but what does that have to do with me wanting a bare chest option for female Iksar/Sarnak? I know female Iksar have the frills because I play one. If you were reffering to the "I mean those races have nothing to show off....really." bit... by that I was meaning they had nothing on their chest to show off that should prevent a topless look on them. Otherwise I love the Frilliks I really do.</p>

[Enever]

<cite>Raveller wrote: </cite><blockquote><p>And I thought the 2007 Worst Idea Ever Competetion was over. How wrong I was.</p><p>If you don't want to be seen wearing armor, then don't wear any [Removed for Content]' armor! Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.</p><p>If you don't want your halfling to wear shoes (please note that we're not playing Tolkien Hobbits, so halflings can wear shoes if they want) then don't put any shoes on your halfling.</p><p>None of this is rocket science.</p><p>And I thought whining was limited to crafting threads.</p></blockquote>Stats are a good thing.Also Whining and Suggestion are two -very- different things.

[Ookami-san]

<p>They already have a /showhelm command... why not just add /showchest /showpants, etc.</p>

[Catria]

<cite>Ookami-san wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>They already have a /showhelm command... why not just add /showchest /showpants, etc.</p></blockquote>Now, there's an idea.  If they can do it for helms they can do it for other slots.  This also bypasses any "crafter whining" <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> as there won't be any new items involved. 

[Rast]

I'm not opposed to this idea in the slightest and I think it should be vendor stuff (or guild based) since it won't need a level, there is no reason to put it on crafters and it would only add what 4-5 items that can be made once with never a need to upgrade?

[Leatherneck]

While the /showhelm type commands are a good solution, I love the idea of an Emperor's New _____ line of gear.  That's pure gold there.

[Hinosh]

<p>No.</p><p>What this whole "appearance" tab thing is, is decorative armour placed over your effective armour. Even if there WAS invisible armour, all you'd see is the effective armour because behind that invisible armour is your effective armour.</p>

[quasigenx]

<cite>Hinosh wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>No.</p><p>What this whole "appearance" tab thing is, is decorative armour placed over your effective armour. Even if there WAS invisible armour, all you'd see is the effective armour because behind that invisible armour is your effective armour.</p></blockquote>Wrong. On test, the invisible shoulders show as naked even with a visible piece underneath.

[Hinosh]

<cite>quasigenx wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Hinosh wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>No.</p><p>What this whole "appearance" tab thing is, is decorative armour placed over your effective armour. Even if there WAS invisible armour, all you'd see is the effective armour because behind that invisible armour is your effective armour.</p></blockquote>Wrong. On test, the invisible shoulders show as naked even with a visible piece underneath.</blockquote>That's because of a bug, not a feature.

[Laiyo]

Then it should be a feature and should be implemented on every slot.  More choices for the players to make this the game for them (especially character appearance) are a good thing, not a bad one.

[Telden]

But, would anyone really trust a half-naked tank? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Laiyo]

Sure! I've played with monks from time to time! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[quasigenx]

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I know a few people have suggested an option to enable/disable the appearance items, but this just isn't viable at the moment.  The server is doing most of the work to determine what you should look like.  The client doesn't have all of the information to make that determination, and this would require a pretty big change.</blockquote>Just wanted to drop this quote down from the "main" fluff slot gripe thread to close out this issue. Basically, it's not feasible.However, I'm not sure I fully understand the reasoning. I know there are at least two items in the game in different slots that appear invisible currently. Surely it would be possible to replicate that? If it's a pure bug, perhaps it would not be possible to replication on other slots, however.I understand why a /showarms might not work, if the server needs to do that work. What I don't understand is why items cannot be created that equip into the slots and show as bare. We already have two examples of that happening by accident, how hard can it be to do on purpose?

[Sapphirius]

<cite>Laiyo wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sure! I've played with monks from time to time! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Amen to that! /flexes her monky muscles

[Laiyo]

I'm not sure I understand the reasoning either.  Already players can decide to show or not to show the helm of their character, and decide to show or not show the cloak on their character or turn off cloaks entirely in the game. My guess would be those things were already in early on (not that I know) and it has been deemed that adding more would increase the server load significantly and intolerably but taking them out would cause a nasty uproar.

[quasigenx]

Yeah, I definitely see how adding the option to hide slots could induce extra load. What I don't get is how we can do that already with shoulders and hand slots using bugged items. If the server isn't storing a /hide bit for that slot, then how does it work? More importantly, does it work for any slot, or is there something special about the layering of those slots that means it wouldn't work for others?I suspect that those two are genuine bugs, and that it either isn't reproducible using the same technique on other slots, or the devs simply don't want to propagate this "bug" to other slots (which I can understand, I guess).

[Novusod]

<cite>Telden wrote:</cite><blockquote>But, would anyone really trust a half-naked tank? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Bruisers look half naked if they are in Gis and people trust them to tank sometimes. On second thought most people don't let the bruiser tank.

[Sapphirius]

<cite>quasigenx wrote:</cite><blockquote>I understand why a /showarms might not work, if the server needs to do that work. What I don't understand is why items cannot be created that equip into the slots and show as bare. We already have two examples of that happening by accident, how hard can it be to do on purpose?</blockquote><p>Good question! I suspect the answer may be the same as when people asked the question about soga/soe models. A long time ago there was a huge thread about people wanting their characters to only show in soga or non-soga models. Basically, people only customized one appearance for their characters and didn't want their other appearance alternative to be seen. I don't remember the answer, but I'll see if I can dig up the thread for you.</p><p>EDIT: OK, I found the comment.</p><p><cite>Moorgard wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>EtiolePB wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>It strikes me that it's no fun letting someone ELSE decide how they see me.  I would have thought this owuld be like /showhood or /hide_illusion, and up to the player?</blockquote><p>Unfortunately it isn't as simple as /showhood or illusions. We're introducing a substantial number of new models into the game, and with those new models come a host of necessary appearances and animations. It would be too demanding on the game client (and the majority of computer systems) to add 22 new models to the game, all of which could conceivably be on screen along with the existing character models. You think congested areas have low framerates now...</p><p>That's why everyone has to choose which version of the player character models they want to see as they play. </p><p>On the plus side, you'll be able to save two sets of customizations: one for the original models, one for the SOGA versions. That way you'll at least know how your character will be seen regardless of which models another player is using.</p></blockquote>

[Zagadka]

Total bump. Why the hell does my Barbarian have the chest drawings if I have to wear plate over it?And he's a 'zerker... they aren't terribly worried about shiny plate armor...

[mellowknees72]

<cite>Raveller wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If you don't want your halfling to wear shoes (please note that we're not playing Tolkien Hobbits, so halflings can wear shoes if they want) then don't put any shoes on your halfling.</p></blockquote>Um, yeah, considering how much of EverQuest is lifted directly from Tolkien, as are many, many, many fantasy stories, games, etc. the world over, you're never going to convince a person playing a halfling that they shouldn't be shoeless.  Sorry.

[Sylphier]

<span class="postbody">"</span><span class="postbody">you're never going to convince a person playing a halfling that they shouldn't be shoeless."ya pretty much. if it isn't possible then they should just change the halfling foot models to look more like the everquest 1 halfling feet when they do their skeleton revamp or w/e.</span>

[Inxx]

<p>why not add some npcs in the major cities that sell some kind of invisible armor parts ?</p><p>or maybe add these kind of armor to the status merchants</p>

[Amalthea]

Since the appearance slots went live with GU38 on September 12, they are no longer "in testing" and shouldn't be generating feedback on the "In Testing" forum.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />If you'd like to discuss the appearance slots further, please take a look at one of the many threads already in progress on the "<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/forums/show.m?forum_id=2582" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Look and Feel</a>" forum; if your post would be off-topic for any of them, feel free to start a new thread.