PvP and Evac, Engaged? No Problem...

[Miroh]

   A group member engages, one evacs...the one engaged lives due to this.  As to why it changed from leaving that person who was engaged to taking them to the evac point (Still able to be killed) I will never know.  How long was this tested out?  Did people really say that it was great this way in pvp testing or was it just changed to this without testing?  How is it fair to engage someone, almost have them dead only to poof and be evaced half a zone away?  Hey, they aren't immune at least...may as well be if you have to run across a zone to catch them.  My experience with this...  I'm in Temple of Scale looking for the named, 6 qeynos pop on track.  I follow with safe house up in case, I see them going for a x2 named.  I can't take on 6 no matter who they are.  I wait for them to engage, their 2 swashes had other plans for me.  The 2 engage me while the other 4 end up getting mobs on them.  I safe house to the zone only to be greeted by the same 6.  Keep in mind, safe house isn't like evac, combat does not break if it is used.  I have to zone, this is 1 of 3 experiences with in 30 minutes with this group.  2nd time:  I get help, 4 people now against 6...no healer though.  We get the jump on one of the swashes, almost dead...poof, the other evaced to give the healer and tank time to taunt and heal.  She lives from the evac and we die.  3rd Time:    Same 4 of us are following them through TT, we get them on track on Vultak Isle, by the Barren Sky portal.  The recently gained Champion title their healer had I was looking to jack, the other 3 were chasing their tank, I jumped on their healer.  Almost dead...poof, evaced, she was engaged....So now we're on Vultak and they are safely away at the Antonica/Commonlands portal.  How is this at all fair?  They need to be left if they are engaged.  You can't zone engaged so why should you be able to be evaced by someone else engaged?  Needs to be changed, thanks.

[Pletia]

Sorry, but you can't cry about that.. you never fight if you don't have Safe house... try to fight sometime ? no?

[Miroh]

 If you want to bash me for using something SoE gave us to escape unfair fights or mobs killing you...Go start a thread on eq2flames. I don't wish to have my thread derailed due to someone having hurt feelings they lost.  This thread is to bring light of something very wrong with how evac and pvp works.    Now if you have feedback to this topic then by all means speak about it, I didn't make this thread to call you out.  I made this thread to show there is a major issue with the Original Post I made.  Please discontinuing the derailing due to hurt feelings.  Thank you.  <u><b>**Edit** </b></u>This is another example of evacing someone in combat.<span class="name"><b>TiKarl did this to me earlier with her Brigand friend.</b></span> The assassin (Tikarl) never engaged, but the Brigand did and when Freeporters showed up and I had almost killed the brigand, the Assassin evacs.  Luckily for me I was on Strifewind Isle in Barrensky so once they took off I had enough time to fly to Whisperwind (the evac point in Barren Sky) and finish the job.  Now if I had been on Awakening or Desolution I would not have gotten there in time before they were back out of combat.    This needs to change and soon please.  Thank you.

[sprogn]

I read this and LoL'ed.

[Miroh]

  Its frustrating as hell.  It needs to be changed.

[Gane]

<p>I'm posting in this thread so that later you'll be able to see my bruisers pvp record.  This is what happens when you basically refuse to group with people, and dive head first into ANY fist fight.</p><p>Just wait till it updates.  and I'll be waiting for the, "lol u sux" messages <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I agree with TiKarl.  Stay and die. </p>

[Amphibia]

I've seen this a lot lately. Evac seems bugged, because I don't think it was supposed to include group members that are engaged in PvP. Either way, as long as it stays like that.... people will use it for all it is worth.

[Miroh]

<cite>Gayne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> I agree with TiKarl.  Stay and die. </p></blockquote>  The funny thing though, was, she never would fight me without having someone to help lol, so staying and dying wasn't what she was doing.  And yeah Niryan, it is catching on very quickly and it needs to be dealt with and soon.  Engaged and being left is how it once was, should be how it still is.  Please look into this SoE, thanks.

[toenukl]

Evac used to actually leave the engaged people behind, guess it was changed back recently. I do know that the evac items, such as from the SoS quest lines, can be used in pvp combat and includes your whole group.

[Pletia]

Sorry Miroh, but you don't seem to understand what Exile is... when I evaced Zanthies my track was almost full.. was a group of Freep landing, and a group of Q going to Strifewind.. you know.. Exile vs Freep vs Q..

[Ameniel]

Evac may port people engaged in combat, but as it is now they will not have immunity when done, only the person that evaced. Go to the evac spot & finish the job.

[yellowbelly08]

<p>Evac is clearly currently bugged. There is no way that this is intended. Fix it quick pls soe kktnx.</p><p>Galoro</p>

[Borias]

It isn't as simple as just going to the evac spot afterwards.  Oftentimes you are still in pvp combat (that I don't understand either- if your target leaves, you should be out of combat immediately) so you are unable to ride mounts, clouds etc, or run to the evac spot quickly.  Usually by the time you get there, they are long gone.  Not always of course, but if they are that scared, they will have time to camp or find a cliff.

[Necodem]

Just remove evac from game, it kill pvp fights.

[Darkor]

<cite>Darkhain@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just remove evac from game, it kill pvp fights.</blockquote>I agree, remove evac from the pvp server. It ruins the pvp. It doesnt make sense that a few classes get a free out of the jail card and everybody else not. Either give all evac (please dont lol) or remove it (that would make sense on a pvp server).

[Wildfury77]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darkhain@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just remove evac from game, it kill pvp fights.</blockquote>I agree, remove evac from the pvp server. It ruins the pvp. It doesnt make sense that a few classes get a free out of the jail card and everybody else not. Either give all evac (please dont lol) or remove it (that would make sense on a pvp server).</blockquote><p>I'm sure this isn't directed once again at rangers......</p><p>Fine remove EVAC......but then again why should druids be allowed to travel instantly via porting!! INSTANT backup to allies. Lets remove that too!!!....... /rolls eyes</p><p>Classes all have different abilities, if a ranger and fury group....they BOTH can evac and port!! AMAZING!!! Ajjantis I know that you are entirely "fury-centric" and bit blinkered BUT surely even you can see that removing things that make classes different is a bad idea? </p><p><b><u>For sure fix it so that if ANY group member engages PvP then no one in group can evac.....</u></b></p><p>p.s. Its not rocket science to STOP an evacer especially if you a  freep.....FEAR (a few of you can do that i think <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )</p>

[Kneemin]

<i><span class="postbody">p.s. Its not rocket science to STOP an evacer especially if you a <u><b> freep</b></u>.....FEAR (a few of you can do that i think <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" /> )</span></i>Does fear really stop evac (also, <u><b>Q</b></u>s get fear too, go figure?!?!?)? I know it would on a mage, but on a scout? Only method I know of is a mez to completely stop a scout evac. Interrupts will just make it take an xtra 1 sec to cast tbh.  Also, IMO, don't remove evac... Make it interruptable/stunnable/etc... right now stuns, stifles, knockbacks (unless a TRUE interrupt is included) don't even kill a scout evac.  My wizzy however... psh, if I don't cast it before you get to me, im dead stun-lock ftl.EDIT: /applaud the dood below my post ^.^

[max.power]

<cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darkhain@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just remove evac from game, it kill pvp fights.</blockquote>I agree, remove evac from the pvp server. It ruins the pvp. It doesnt make sense that a few classes get a free out of the jail card and everybody else not. Either give all evac (please dont lol) or remove it (that would make sense on a pvp server).</blockquote>Ajjantis, but you DO know that EVERY class can get evac, don't you? Escape locket, evac root from the KoS plant e.g.. Of course these items can't catch up with evac from scouts because they don't have an automatic 15 mins recharge but... as an emergency they suffice.So your "... and everybody else not." is false.What I would like to see is an ALTERING of how evac works. Evac in it's current form should solely belong to magic users, because it's no "evacuate", it's a port. For scouts I could imagine the following: Groupstealth with 100% runspeed for, let's say, 15 seconds - a fast RETREAT, but not a PORT.To be honest: I don't mind if they remove evac from game. Many times it saved me and my group, many times it denied me/us the victory. Kills and deaths will go both up, so in fact nothing would change <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Greenion]

<p><span style="color: #339900;">i had a target that i killed the other night that failed to register...i think...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">the opponent was engaged with a mob before i attacked them (of course)</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">the opponent was under 50% health (slightly) when i engaged (a slight oversight on my part actually, regardless mostly my reason for attacking them was eschewing them from the pve area (well hopefully) because basicly i wanted the camp...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">they "called for help" in relation to the pve mob just as they were very near zero health...the combat text did not list their cause of death (whether killed by me or the mob)</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">this is not a complaint about kill credit (as having attacked them under 50% health i guess earns no credit, whatever i dont sweat k/d ratio and all that anyway...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">the post is about the detail that the "call for help" possibly confused the cause of ingame death of a character...ie : if kill credit were an issue in the scenario...it would have mattered...etc.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">just mentioning it here as it seemed similar to an "evac out of an in combat situation" im not debating the skill...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">ive always been of the opinion that pvp combat (since states of in and out of such exist) should ensue on both parties (the intitiating party and the party initiated) simultaneously upon the intiating pvp action of any party (per zonal limitations of engagement).</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">if this were true, and also "no use of evac when in pvp combat" were true...</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">then a character once engaged fairly in pvp combat by an opponent could not evac <span style="color: #00ff00;">(</span><span style="color: #99cc00;">or zone</span><span style="color: #00ff00;">)</span>.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">-that in a nutshell is my opinion on evac and pvp combat (sry i havent followed the current debate, do continue)</span></p>

[Greenion]

<cite>Brain@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>What I would like to see is an ALTERING of how evac works. Evac in it's current form should solely belong to magic users, because it's no "evacuate", it's a port. For scouts I could imagine the following: Groupstealth with 100% runspeed for, let's say, 15 seconds - a fast RETREAT, but not a PORT.</blockquote><p><span style="color: #339900;">this really reflects my thoughts as well on a description of an actual theif/scout skill. as well, the quick evac port fits a mage better...possibly it should be random directioned as well similar to the illusionist blink with a greater range with a timed runspeed bonus.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">if the skills were left alone and how we looked at the initiation and entrance into states of combat per character and pvp involvement...the skills wouldnt effect pvp combat as much (characters couldnt evac once engaged by others, therefor it would only deter from pvp when a character was on theri toes enough to actually see the oncoming hordez and react in time (ie : a more skillfull tactic when used) currently its a "save my [I cannot control my vocabulary]" button so peeps can sloppily pve on a pvp server in an open zone when they are too sick of playing it ultra safe in instances (that shouldnt exist on pvp servers (or at very least have a semblance of specialized pvp ruleset within them, they should be imo semi-contested territories, an example of the need, roflz, i a lowbie exile scuttling the north qs am spotted by by big redcon qbert paladin who gives a brave chase...i slip into the "im building my faction with fp" instance in which qbert cannot go, i of course have a few other examples)</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">no change in the skill and a change in what put who in pvp combat (if different states (in and out of) need to exist, ive also been of the opinion it might be better if they simply didnt (however if they didnt there would be no criteria with which to limit things like zoning and certain skill usage during the combat (this might be dandy if the pvp playerbase was of a more bloodthirsty (in a virtual sense of course) mindset than a "im only going to play if i 99% sure i am in the statistical mean to win and just in case i'll pack a few hax too" mindset)...ehem as i was saying, no change in the skill and a change in what qualifies as "being in pvp combat" might fix a "lack of involvement" in reluctant pvprs more than revamping the evac skill on a per class/caster or item cast basis.</span></p><p><span style="color: #339900;">my opinion is that the mechanic of pvp combatance needs finally adjusted to give the right of way to pvprs instead of pvers on pvp servers.</span></p>

[Bloodfa]

<cite>Brain@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ajjantis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darkhain@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just remove evac from game, it kill pvp fights.</blockquote>I agree, remove evac from the pvp server. It ruins the pvp. It doesnt make sense that a few classes get a free out of the jail card and everybody else not. Either give all evac (please dont lol) or remove it (that would make sense on a pvp server).</blockquote>Ajjantis, but you DO know that EVERY class can get evac, don't you? Escape locket, evac root from the KoS plant e.g.. Of course these items can't catch up with evac from scouts because they don't have an automatic 15 mins recharge but... as an emergency they suffice.So your "... and everybody else not." is false.What I would like to see is an ALTERING of how evac works. Evac in it's current form should solely belong to magic users, because it's no "evacuate", it's a port. For scouts I could imagine the following: Groupstealth with 100% runspeed for, let's say, 15 seconds - a fast RETREAT, but not a PORT.To be honest: I don't mind if they remove evac from game. Many times it saved me and my group, many times it denied me/us the victory. Kills and deaths will go both up, so in fact nothing would change <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Before the soon-to-come flamewar will get this locked, I just wanted to say "nice concept" for altering evac. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Miroh]

<cite>Pletia@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sorry Miroh, but you don't seem to understand what Exile is... when I evaced Zanthies my track was almost full.. was a group of Freep landing, and a group of Q going to Strifewind.. you know.. Exile vs Freep vs Q..</blockquote>  Yes, I do understand Exile, been playing way before You could exile at any level.  Fact I was pointing out because you tried to call me out on it is, You run from a 1v1 but when you have a friend you talk smack when I get away.  Your friend engages me, he fails, you evaced him, I flew to Evac point and ran him into the ground.  To those that say "Just go to the evac point and finish the job"  Its not that simple.  If you are close by sure, have at it, but if you are across the zone....no [Removed for Content] is going to sit there going "Ok you evaced me, that wasn't fair...I will wait for the PK to come back" NO, they're gonna take off.  Someone else mentioned that sometimes you will be put back in combat, that is truth.  Alot of times once someone evacs and you are out of combat you could just be casting Stealth on yourself and it will put you right back into combat.  So.....just going to evac spot and finishing the job isn't always that easy.  And to the other replies, lets not go too far here, this thread is to say there is an issue with the current evac, Whether it be spell evac, potion (SoS quest) root etc etc.  Take evac out of the game, thats fine by me.  But, lets not start one of these threads that go on about "omg, we deserve it more" and whatever else people can think of.   Thread is to fix a spell, not change class abilities.  Edit:  Lets not try and get this thread locked, I would really like to see evac changed.  If ya wanna bash and flame...register at EQ2flames and say I referred you please <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />

[Bauer]

I personally do not think this is bugged, and like it a lot. Evac is an emergency skill, and you should be able to use it to save a friend or group from death. For example: We had a group zerging us, getting us lower and lower on power, we were able to flee the battle we rightfully won by getting our scout of combat and healing through the zerg with the remains of our power. I like the way it currently is, it helps for all the bugs with the in-combat/out-of-combat system - like jumping while fighting mobs, heals, taunts, item procs, necro dumbfire or any dumbfire.. and any kind of reactive. This was a good change, and stopped evac from being basically a way to take an immunity afk.

[Eybietie]

<p>yeah think the way arround. you are engaged with some mobs andwhile you are hitting the mob some people attack you andyou aint able to take on the mob and the gank squad.those people manage to hit one of the grp member making the grpward tick before evacs gets off. </p><p>now if they change it as you suggest, bot miroh, thispoor healer will die and cant evac with the rest.</p>

[Zvaies]

<p>Well I wont cry over ppl using this,  I would use it myself..  However I do feel it is quite unfair to the rest of us who are at the mercy of a pvp grp gank vs one with evac and keeps their infamy  </p>

[Miroh]

  Bumping this...  To Shade...I don't care if its an accident, I know I get locked in pvp all the time thanks to reposte, I can't evac.  It truly isn't fair that someone comes up to you, attacks and starts getting owned their buddy takes them safely across the zone...or where ever you were and where ever their evac point it.

[HerbertWalker]

<p>Fairness is not the right word.   All players can do it, so it is fair to everyone.  Solo imbalance is a more proper phrasing.</p><p>The imbalance is due to certain classes getting all the best pvp abilities (Evac, Track, and massive dps - in that order of importance.)   If evac was taken from scouts and given to fighters, then we would be a bit closer to solo balance.</p><p>On the fly, uninterrruptable Evac and Track should never have been given to the high dps classes.</p>

[Norrsken]

<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Fairness is not the right word.   All players can do it, so it is fair to everyone.  Solo imbalance is a more proper phrasing.</p><p>The imbalance is due to certain classes getting all the best pvp abilities (Evac, Track, and massive dps - in that order of importance.)   If evac was taken from scouts and given to fighters, then we would be a bit closer to solo balance.</p><p>On the fly, uninterrruptable Evac and Track should never have been given to the high dps classes.</p></blockquote>And track, like every other skill in the game, should in some flavor or the other be spread out over the archetypes, and be made available with items so that everyone can have it, cause, its one of the most powerful pvp abilities around. Makes no sense a specific subset is the only ones that can make use of it. Especially not in the radar way its working now.

[shalom]

<cite>Miroh69 wrote:</cite><blockquote> If you want to bash me for using something SoE gave us to escape unfair fights or mobs killing you...Go start a thread on eq2flames. </blockquote><p>w.t.f. do you think evac is? Classic. "I want it to be easier to kill others and harder for me to die, I don't want to have to l2p."</p><p>L2p noobsauceface.</p>

[Miroh]

  You must be a level locker or one that does that all the time.  Your response was just...dull to say the least.  But since you are slow I suppose I will explain it.  Wanting those engaged to not be able to evac isn't a skill thing, most see that...you on the other hand, are just slow.  If you run up to someone, engage and start getting handed...you need to hit that sprint button and run or die like a man, not plea for your group members to evac you.  And sure, give my bruiser twink track please, I want him to be more over powered than what he already is....  Oh, btw, for the level locking comment...I already have a 70 pvp toon, I'm enjoying pvp when you dont have to worry with taking on a raid.