Neutral or Evil...Neutral or Evil....Bah!

[Nayurayne]

Okay so my take on the new Sarnak city is that I would like to have it true neutral. We have good and evil and the exiles which are not good or evil  but neither are exiles true neutral I think. Anyway while listening to Podcast 22 <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=378991" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">(clicky)</a> I heard that once again the Sarnak city is to be true neutal with neutral starting classes. But then a few seconds later he says how the Sarnak are considered evil on their side of things. Buh...I swear that city will be changing factions all the way up to release. It's enough to make me chew on the tip of my tail I tell ya. For anyone interested the info I was talking about starts at 22:05 into the podcast.

[Kindayr]

<p>it'd be terrible if they made them a true neutral race with only the neutral classes. That'll just make all other classes extinct in the Sarnak race >.<</p><p>i unno, just my opinion.</p>

[ke'la]

<p>I still think the way Sarnak and the city should work is that SoE should pick the most fitting classes from each archtype to the Sarnak.</p><p>For exsample:</p><p>Fighters</p><ul><li>The Sarnak have to fight the Swifttail Monks(More then likely as they are Iksar) so they would probly want every monk like fighter they can get thier hands on, so bruiser and monk available to Iksar.</li><li>However, the Sarnak are probly just as bloodtursty as the Iksar so I don't think they would appeal to Pallies so only SKs.</li><li>The Sarnak also seem to be more into personal glory rather then protecting others so Bazerker would appel more to them then Guardian, therefor Bezerker only.</li></ul><p>Mages</p><ul><li>Max Damage is a very big deal in War so both Wizzards and Warlocks are welcome.</li><li>War tends to make people revere thier dead so I don't think the Sarnak would like Necro's Defiling then so only Conjs welcome</li><li>Again here I think the Sarnak are more into Coerersion then making people see pritty lights, so Coerser only</li></ul><p>Priests</p><ul><li>Like Pallies I think Templars are to "good" to live with the bloodthursty Sarnak so Inquisitor here</li><li>(this one is a strech) more then anything else war tends to destroy the land so it would cause all those who protect it to come out, Fury and Warden both available</li><li>Again War tends to breed reverance for the dead so I don't think the Sarnak would take kindly to thier ansesters being Defiled, Mystic only</li></ul><p>Scouts</p><ul><li>In War Max damage is importaint and I doupt the Sarnak Care how you acheave it, so Assasin and Ranger Welcome</li><li>In War fancy swordplay and "Dance fighting" doesn't really "help" the fight, they need someone who is down and dirty and willing to do anything to win, Brigand only</li><li>I seriously doupt that a city underseige really has time for the "happy" songs of a Trubidor, on the other hand people would be hearing Dirges play daily, Dirge only</li></ul><p>This maintains the classes 4 per acritype set-up but at the same time allows, them to have a "Neutral" city as it does not follow the Good/Evil class pattern, but instead has the Sarnaks taking the classes that they need.</p>

[Gungo]

This is what SOE needs to do:Unrestrict the good/evil alignment that is causing them problems.Make both brawlers neutralMake both enchanters neutralMake both shaman neutralmake both rogues neutralMake the new sarnak city neutral, violaAnyone can start aswarrior, brawlerenchanter, sorcererShaman, druidRogue, bardThis will also help pvp city factions.and the only true evil+good classes which can still be made in the main cities or , smaller citiesCrusaders=paladin/shadowknightSummoners=conjuror/necroCleric=templar/inquisitorPredator=ranger/assassinThis is really I think the best idea for a true neutral city faction.

[ke'la]

<cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is what SOE needs to do:Unrestrict the good/evil alignment that is causing them problems.Make both brawlers neutralMake both enchanters neutralMake both shaman neutralmake both rogues neutralMake the new sarnak city neutral, violaAnyone can start aswarrior, brawlerenchanter, sorcererShaman, druidRogue, bardThis will also help pvp city factions.and the only true evil+good classes which can still be made in the main cities or , smaller citiesCrusaders=paladin/shadowknightSummoners=conjuror/necroCleric=templar/inquisitorPredator=ranger/assassinThis is really I think the best idea for a true neutral city faction.</blockquote><p>The problem here is then either a) Sarnak won't get Crus, Summoners, Clerics and Predators(wich would be a HUGE disadvantage) or b) Sarnak would get 5 starting classes per acrytype in their city instead of 4 wich is a HUGE advantage.</p><p>Personally I think they need to do away with the "good/Evil" monicers too and just say certain classes are Welecome or Unwelcome in certain cities. This would allow them to mix and match classes for the best fit(see my post above) while keeping it fair all around for everyone. This would also make PvP eaiser because you would no longer have Good/Evil but Qeynos allined(like Kelethin), Freeport Allined(like Neriak), and Haters of Qeynos and Freeport(Sarnak), making it a three way PvP fight. Remember while Qeynos and FP do fight each other, (Kinda like the USA and USSR did) they also work together to fight commin foes(like the US and USSR in WW2), this could breed dislike/hatered in cities that don't want anything to do with either of them(like the Middle East), so a third faction forming not allined with either would not be unheard of.</p>

[Mirander_1]

According to everything I recall the devs having said, it sounds like the Sarnak and their city will either be evil, or a sort of neutral-evil.  Either way, they're going to have the evil class selection.

[Cusashorn]

<p>It would be interesting if Sarnaks were restricted to the class types they were in EQlive.</p><p>Warrior - Guardian and Berzerker</p><p>Shadowknight</p><p>Necromancer</p><p>Wizard (not Warlock)</p><p>Cleric - Templar and Inquisitor</p><p>Enchanter - Illusionist and Coercer</p><p>Rogue - Brigand and Swashbuckler (I think they were rogues now and then. I can't remember for sure.)</p>

[Nayurayne]

<p>To be honest I think an evil-neutral city would be best. Like I said I like the idea of true neutral I really do but then you do have class balancing issues. The dev in the podcast had said neutral classes were to start there but if that the case then people are right. The poor Sarnak loose out on a lot. Although he did say something that made me wonder. He said that the city was neutral and neutral classes would start there but then there are the Sarnak who are considered evil on their end. Heh, makes me think that would it would be interesting if you had a neutral city where the classes were neutral choice pic except the Sarnak who had evil choice selections. That way if you wanted to move to the city later on you could prolly hold down an evil or neutral class but just not start that way for most races... and also that way we get a true neutral city without bringing down the Sarnak.</p><p>Baring all that though I say neutral-evil. Something like kelethin where the opposing faction doesn't like you but neither are you kill on sight for most people.</p>

[Nayurayne]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It would be interesting if Sarnaks were restricted to the class types they were in EQlive.</p><p>Warrior - Guardian and Berzerker</p><p>Shadowknight</p><p>Necromancer</p><p>Wizard (not Warlock)</p><p>Cleric - Templar and Inquisitor</p><p>Enchanter - Illusionist and Coercer</p><p>Rogue - Brigand and Swashbuckler (I think they were rogues now and then. I can't remember for sure.)</p></blockquote><p>Buh I guess the post didn't load fully before I respended..stupid slowish internet. </p><p>Anyway I would have to disagree with this and not only because Warden isn't on the list. The Sarnak we're playing now arn't the Sarnak that were in eq1 so having the same classes wouldn't make complete sense. Our Sarnak are pretty much babies having only been in the world 50 years. Otherwise I like mind your idea of a neutral city where the non neutral classes are picked and choosed. Like say Necromancer instead of Paladin or Monk instead of Bruiser.</p>

[Cusashorn]

I said it would be interesting, not practical, useful, or desired.

[Wildmage]

<cite>Nayukhuut wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It would be interesting if Sarnaks were restricted to the class types they were in EQlive.</p><p>Warrior - Guardian and Berzerker</p><p>Shadowknight</p><p>Necromancer</p><p>Wizard (not Warlock)</p><p>Cleric - Templar and Inquisitor</p><p>Enchanter - Illusionist and Coercer</p><p>Rogue - Brigand and Swashbuckler (I think they were rogues now and then. I can't remember for sure.)</p></blockquote><p>Buh I guess the post didn't load fully before I respended..stupid slowish internet. </p><p>Anyway I would have to disagree with this and not only because Warden isn't on the list. The Sarnak we're playing now arn't the Sarnak that were in eq1 so having the same classes wouldn't make complete sense. Our Sarnak are pretty much babies having only been in the world 50 years. Otherwise I like mind your idea of a neutral city where the non neutral classes are picked and choosed. Like say Necromancer instead of Paladin or Monk instead of Bruiser.</p></blockquote>the one down side is that it kind  killed my plans for a Sarnak Ranger ahh well.

[Josgar]

<cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I still think the way Sarnak and the city should work is that SoE should pick the most fitting classes from each archtype to the Sarnak.</p><p>For exsample:</p><p>Fighters</p><ul><li>The Sarnak have to fight the Swifttail Monks(More then likely as they are Iksar) so they would probly want every monk like fighter they can get thier hands on, so bruiser and monk available to Iksar.</li><li>However, the Sarnak are probly just as bloodtursty as the Iksar so I don't think they would appeal to Pallies so only SKs.</li><li>The Sarnak also seem to be more into personal glory rather then protecting others so Bazerker would appel more to them then Guardian, therefor Bezerker only.</li></ul><p>Mages</p><ul><li>Max Damage is a very big deal in War so both Wizzards and Warlocks are welcome.</li><li>War tends to make people revere thier dead so I don't think the Sarnak would like Necro's Defiling then so only Conjs welcome</li><li>Again here I think the Sarnak are more into Coerersion then making people see pritty lights, so Coerser only</li></ul><p>Priests</p><ul><li>Like Pallies I think Templars are to "good" to live with the bloodthursty Sarnak so Inquisitor here</li><li>(this one is a strech) more then anything else war tends to destroy the land so it would cause all those who protect it to come out, Fury and Warden both available</li><li>Again War tends to breed reverance for the dead so I don't think the Sarnak would take kindly to thier ansesters being Defiled, Mystic only</li></ul><p>Scouts</p><ul><li>In War Max damage is importaint and I doupt the Sarnak Care how you acheave it, so Assasin and Ranger Welcome</li><li>In War fancy swordplay and "Dance fighting" doesn't really "help" the fight, they need someone who is down and dirty and willing to do anything to win, Brigand only</li><li>I seriously doupt that a city underseige really has time for the "happy" songs of a Trubidor, on the other hand people would be hearing Dirges play daily, Dirge only</li></ul><p>This maintains the classes 4 per acritype set-up but at the same time allows, them to have a "Neutral" city as it does not follow the Good/Evil class pattern, but instead has the Sarnaks taking the classes that they need.</p></blockquote>=P That is practically what my idea was... except I had classes arranged differently in mine.

[Durelli]

I would really like to see it be neutral for a few reasons but mostly it would just be a really interesting development.Firstly, it's the 'Village' of Gorowyn. Why do the politics of long isolated civilisations have to be reflected in the development of a obscure hidden village no one's heard of. It makes sense that they have their own morals which could equate to a 'neutral' Sarnak being a Shadowknight for example. Perhaps their moral code simply doesnt equate the methods of an SK as evil or they simply hold a philosophy of 'ends justify the means'. They're fighting for survival after all (which explains why they are neutral - last thing they need is more enemies so they stay Swiss about it all.).If these classes have been in their culture more or less from day dot, it's not evil to them it's simply the way things are done. They don't know any better as those classes arent in their culture.Personally I'd like to see Odus next and I cant think of a more ideal neutral culture than that of the Erudites. Halas I guess but unless that has drifted into Velious I'd much rather see Odus.. If they make this player town neutral, it opens the a door for second neutral city to balance it. So if Gorowyn is the neutral Kelethin/Neriak I would like to see the modern equivilant of Erudin return as the Qeynos/Freeport. Sometimes the 'goodies' and the 'baddies' routine gets sickly. More options is never a bad thing and this would help to distinguish EQ2 a little from the current gen MMOs as well as harking back to the days of EQ1 which the devs aren't shy to admit (these days) - actually works.

[Xanrn]

<p>Well I hope Sarnak + Neutral races.</p><p>Because my Barbarian wants to live in the sun.</p><p>I want to lie shipwreck in Timorous Deep, drinking fresh Spiroc juice, Sarnaks there nibling at my toes.</p><p> I don't think they will be fighting the Swiftail Monks, the Monks would never support Venril Sathir.</p><p>They do need to shake stuff up though, I would like a varying selection of classes.</p><p>Aslong as the tell Lucan to go suck an egg.</p>

[Lightstrider]

I would argue again for my idea of the Sarnak city being a NON-ALIGNED city, an OPEN city.  A city where all factions can intermingle in sort of an uneasy peace.  There is precedent for this both in history and in fantasy literature--simmering tensions just under the surface that are just barely kept in check.  It could allow for some interesting undercover quests against opposite factions intended to disrupt the balance of power, which could be fun.  Under this plan, of course, you would still have to figure out which starting classes were available to whichever races start there (or allow all classes, although that I think would present serious issues), but it would not preclude Sarnak from being any particular class via betrayal.  I think this could be a pretty nice setup.

[Rayle]

<p>well, to coment on the "soe needs to get rid of the good/evil alignment" thing, and just make certain classes available to the different cities, this was done in eqlive, at least by the humans, you have your base factions of both freeport and qeynos, and then you had your "underground" factions... you could roll a human shadowknight in qeynos, and you could roll a human shadowknight in freeport.... in both cities you ran the risk of running into a faction that totally despised you (paladins and clerics...sometimes even mages) and they would destroy you... </p><p>you would think that two cities who have been at "war" for so long, would have found ways to infiltrate cities and set up smaller, self sufficient organizations "underground" so to speak... instead of writs, these organizations could offer sabotage quests for faction and status, a whole new title system for their factions and so on..</p>

[Tae]

It has to be evil. You can't have a neutral city because it unbalances the factions on the PvP servers and makes a much more attractive (for raiding, at least) fourth faction. It also needs to be evil because Kelethin is far, far superior to Neriak. Greater Faydark is also a much safer zone than DLW since it's so far away and hard to reach. Just plop a city down near Antonica too, so it balances out the towns.

[Zabjade]

<li>I seriously doupt that a city underseige really has time for the "happy" songs of a Trubidor, on the other hand people would be hearing Dirges play daily, Dirge only~ Cusa</li><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">I don't know about that songs that inspire their forces to fight harder would be welcome, and Dirges to honor the fallen.</span></p>