Warlock Identity Crisis! (aka Another AA Thread TYVM)

[Alkoun]

I have a 70 Inquisitor. I quit EQ2 about a year and some months ago, and just came back. The AA's changed, so I looked up a guide for my Inq's AA's. That was easy: General consensus said do this and that for raiding and you're fine.So now I made a Warlock Fae alt. I plan on getting him to 70 and raiding. I thought "hmm lemme look up what people have to say about the AA's for a raiding Warlock" and boy the recommendations run the gamut from maxing out STR and WIS to STR and INT to AGI and WIS and I'm more confused now than I was before I looked at the sorcerer achievement window to begin with! All the threads are insightful, but none generally agree with a standard. Some want faster casting, others want aggro reduction, others just want full out dps. I'm gonna try to be as specific as possible with my needs (that sounds selfish...).So please imagine if you will:70 Fae Warlock.PvE.Grouping til 70, then mostly raiding, very minimal soloing.High DPS with small chance of pulling aggro on raids.Don't care for casting speeds or mana management.My guild has a nice assembly of raid tanks that can generally hold aggro well, but then I'm usually playing a healer on raids so I can't tell if it's skill or just luck. Considering the good track record, let's assume it's skill.I'm thinking STR/INT or WIS/INT but like I said I'm a noob warlock. Which would produce more DPS: STR or WIS? If the tanks are doing what they should be (and from a healer's perspective, they are) is it safe to go STR/WIS, or should that be avoided regardless?The reckless side of me would love to go down STR/WIS as things that go boom are more fun, but the responsible side doesn't wanna get yelled at by the group/raid leader for pulling aggro.One last thing: I haven't a clue about how to read the EoF trees, for neither my Inq or for the Warlock alt so let's focus mainly on the KoS tree. I'll do one first then the other.Thank you and I'm sorry for a long post and for posting yet another AA thread. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Araxes]

Take the Protections line and use your de-aggro (Vulian and Concussive) lines responsibly in raids and you won't get yelled at.  It doesn't matter how much you spike, hate is determined by the amount of damage vs. one mob vs. the amount of any applied taunt or subtractive hate, so, as warlocks, we suffer the most hate of any class bc we most often hit all mobs in an encounter for more damage than any other class can modify.  Whether you go AGI/STR or AGI/WIS or STR/WIS you run the risk of attracting aggro bc you simply do more damage to all mobs than can be negated.  The INT line is a waste, IMO.

[miliskel]

<cite>Alkoun wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have a 70 Inquisitor. I quit EQ2 about a year and some months ago, and just came back. The AA's changed, so I looked up a guide for my Inq's AA's. That was easy: General consensus said do this and that for raiding and you're fine.So now I made a Warlock Fae alt. I plan on getting him to 70 and raiding. I thought "hmm lemme look up what people have to say about the AA's for a raiding Warlock" and boy the recommendations run the gamut from maxing out STR and WIS to STR and INT to AGI and WIS and I'm more confused now than I was before I looked at the sorcerer achievement window to begin with! All the threads are insightful, but none generally agree with a standard. Some want faster casting, others want aggro reduction, others just want full out dps. I'm gonna try to be as specific as possible with my needs (that sounds selfish...).So please imagine if you will:70 Fae Warlock.PvE.Grouping til 70, then mostly raiding, very minimal soloing.<u><b>untill 70 agi str</b></u>High DPS with small chance of pulling aggro on raids.Don't care for casting speeds or mana management.<u><b>well, which of the 2 would u prefer?</b></u>My guild has a nice assembly of raid tanks that can generally hold aggro well, but then I'm usually playing a healer on raids so I can't tell if it's skill or just luck. Considering the good track record, let's assume it's skill.I'm thinking STR/INT or WIS/INT but like I said I'm a noob warlock. Which would produce more DPS: STR or WIS? If the tanks are doing what they should be (and from a healer's perspective, they are) is it safe to go STR/WIS, or should that be avoided regardless? tbh<u><b>for me i tried str int and wis int , u can bet that unless u get crit chance to 30% non buffed with str line, i think  wis would be better, once you get the hang of aggro swap out the int line for for str/wis/agi for more dps</b></u>The reckless side of me would love to go down STR/WIS as things that go boom are more fun, but the responsible side doesn't wanna get yelled at by the group/raid leader for pulling aggro.<u><b>thats my spec, i actually pull aggro less than with str wis</b></u>One last thing: I haven't a clue about how to read the EoF trees, for neither my Inq or for the Warlock alt so let's focus mainly on the KoS tree. I'll do one first then the other.<u><b>well, would put points into the most left line which if u scroll over the spells will say "hastenings" and the far right line "explosions." when u get to 70 i would spec for "propogations" as it will give ur group more dps via procs etc</b></u>Thank you and I'm sorry for a long post and for posting yet another AA thread. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>glad to help <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[DjVacant]

<cite>Alkoun wrote:</cite><blockquote>Don't care for casting speeds or mana management.</blockquote><p>This, in my opinion, would be a mistake.  You can debate all the rest, but IMO the AGI tree is the only "must" out of the KOS achievement choices.</p><p>I'm sure not everyone agrees, but more casts = more procs, more chances at crits....more everything...</p>

[miliskel]

and more deaths! i think str wis is best <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Frank Sojourner]

<p>You are going to get different answers because AA's are situational.  If my raid group is focusing on KOS instances I would suggest a different build then if we are focused on EOF instances.  If my raid group includes double power regen, I'm going to pick a different line than someone who only has single regen or no regen.  If the raid has a good set up for hate gain and deaggro for me, I'll probably pick a different line than someone that doesn't have the benefit of those.</p><p>The raid alliance I am a part of focuses on EOF instances, I usually have a troub in my group, we are generally set up to hit the cap on hate gain in the MT group and raid zw is around 20K+ depending on raid makeup as we are a casual alliance.  With my normal raid gear, no potions or group buffs I have 648 int. and 7,800+ power.  So I run with AGI/WIS.  I have tried other builds but this is what suits my setup and playstyle the best... for the moment.</p><p>As circumstances, gear, setups or focus change, I will adapt and find a new build and/or spell orders to  improve my contribution.  </p><p>As an example, most KOS nameds have around 3-4 million hitpoints and a few have adds.  In EOF there are trash that have 5 million hitpoints, the named have that many, can have adds, can heal and often have other abilities to slow dps output/drain power.  </p><p>Power management is a much bigger deal during 5-15 minute fights than 2.5 minute fights.  As for (AGI)? say you get 20 spells off in a minute, AGI alone gets you 2.8 more spells/minute.  Over a 2.5 minute fight you cast 7 more spells, while over a 10 minute fight you cast 28 more spells.  The number of spells/minute may be a bit high and the equation over simplified but the principle remains the same, the longer a fight lasts the better AGI is, if you have the power pool to continue casting.</p><p>Probably not the answer you are looking for but I would suggest experimenting and finding what works best for you in your setups.  It's not like you are locked into a particular AA build.</p>

[Agaxiq]

Yes the more I do EoF, the more power I need.  In that case, WIS --> STR.  I'm less spikey in damage as well, so even with the nerfs it works best for me.In places like EH you *will* run out of power, guaranteed, even with multiple pieces of power proc gear.  Not just mobs with high hitpoints, but ones that drain power as well.  When you run out of power, you have a lot of options:1) Terrible Deeds (instant heath-->power)2) Manastone (same)2) Bestow Energy (same, but use on yourself, and over time)3) Necro Hearts (over time,3 uses)4) Conjy Shards (over time 3 uses)5) Mana potions (over time)6) Manastone 2.0 (Vessel of Fyr'Un, instant power but only usable once every 30 min)Well, yeah, I can use all of those, but thats a very large amount of time I'm not dealing damage.  If I'm burning through KOS I don't necessarily need the power,  but mobs like the blood colossus in MMIS - <i>trash</i> - that have 6.5 million hitpoints - its ridiculous.  Heck, even Mayong only has about 5 million, but he heals himself for about 500k.agressiv

[Alkoun]

<cite>DjVacant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Alkoun wrote:</cite><blockquote>Don't care for casting speeds or mana management.</blockquote><p>This, in my opinion, would be a mistake.  You can debate all the rest, but IMO the AGI tree is the only "must" out of the KOS achievement choices.</p><p>I'm sure not everyone agrees, but more casts = more procs, more chances at crits....more everything...</p></blockquote>I hadn't thought of that, and I admit that there's logic to it.From the responses I'm getting it seems the decision on which lines to take are dependant, not meant to adhere to any particular standard. I find it both slightly frustrating and refreshing: it'll be difficult finding the right fit but then because of this warlocks aren't cookie cut dps'ers.I appreciate the feedback guys... I think I'm gonna try something a bit more defensive at first. I'm also including the AGI line in my considerations.Thank you all. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Deathspell]

Like everybody I wasn't sure what lines to pick either, but right now I don't understand what the problem was.I had STR/WIS at the beginning. And it was great to see your Apocalypse crit for 100%.  But other than that, there was absolutely nothing else in the STR line was useful. (Mind you, this was before they removed the secondary slot requirements).So, I went AGI/WIS. I never regretted it since.At least with those 2 lines I don't feel I wasted AA points to get to the last ability. (I don't know them out of my head right now).I think STR line gives good dps, if you are alone or in a group with non-dps classes, but when you have to parse against other DPS-classes, a warlock with original casting speeds is just too [Removed for Content] slow.To each his own ofcourse, but for me the AGI/WIS is a clear cut case.

[miliskel]

with str line im going with 46482 and wis 47482 untill i get 50% crit chance then i will try str 4448 just for the crit chance and wis 78482 for added resisists + better fhs, if my apoc doesnt crit every time will prolly go back to the previous spec heh..

[Mailvaltar]

<cite>miliskel wrote:</cite><blockquote>and more deaths! i think str wis is best <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>You do know that you don't <b>have to</b> cast every spell every time it's up, yes?</p><p>Like Vacant said, of course it's everyone's personal choice.</p><p><b>But</b> it just can't be argued away, that AGI is an excellent way to heavily push your DPS, while always maintaining the choice to unleash less DPS if need be.</p><p>If you're unlucky, STR can give you damage-spikes that will get you killed, no matter how good your Tank is. You just can't control how much damage your next few spells will do.</p><p>The same goes for WIS, just to a lesser extent. Plus, WIS doesn't give as much damage as AGI.</p><p>And, if raiding isn't everything you do, you will be very happy about being much less interrupted while casting. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>For me, AGI is a must, everything else is negotiable. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[miliskel]

<cite>Mailvaltar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>miliskel wrote:</cite><blockquote>and more deaths! i think str wis is best <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>You do know that you don't <b>have to</b> cast every spell every time it's up, yes?</p><p><u><b>yup</b></u></p><p>Like Vacant said, of course it's everyone's personal choice.</p><p><b>But</b> it just can't be argued away, that AGI is an excellent way to heavily push your DPS, while always maintaining the choice to unleash less DPS if need be.</p><p><u><b>aye but i think that agi with str is a bad choice as to many spells criting is aggro</b></u></p><p>If you're unlucky, STR can give you damage-spikes that will get you killed, no matter how good your Tank is. You just can't control how much damage your next few spells will do.</p><p><u><b>ofc, but if u get used to criting on most spells u can change ur cast order to suit it</b></u></p><p>The same goes for WIS, just to a lesser extent. Plus, WIS doesn't give as much damage as AGI.</p><p><u><b> from my testing of int wis vs int agi i found the damage was about the same on really long fights and a little better on trash with agi</b></u></p><p>And, if raiding isn't everything you do, you will be very happy about being much less interrupted while casting. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" /></p><p><b> does agility even stop u being interupted?</b></p><p>For me, AGI is a must, everything else is negotiable. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>aye its all personal choice, i think wis is a must due to power concerns because even with illu and troub i can go oop in raids and i like criting spells like apoc for ticks of 3k+

[Mailvaltar]

<cite>miliskel wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mailvaltar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>miliskel wrote:</cite> <p><b> does agility even stop u being interupted?</b></p></blockquote>aye its all personal choice, i think wis is a must due to power concerns because even with illu and troub i can go oop in raids and i like criting spells like apoc for ticks of 3k+</blockquote><p>Shorter cast time = less chance of being interrupted. Meaning, while your Apocalypse can be interrupted after 3,6 seconds of casting (or 3,7 or 3,8 or 3,9), mine can't, because I am already casting my next spell (which, in this scenario, will be interrupted very early, so almost no cast-time is lost) . <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>If there are power concerns WIS is very good, no doubt. You also have the possibility to adress these with specialized gear though (Cloak of hate, Nest robe, etc.).</p><p>Your gear can also make you crit your spells <b>very</b> often, if you have the right pieces.</p><p>While we're at it, I have to admit that your gear can <b>also</b> shorten your cast- and recast-timers. These pieces are particularly rare though, and they have (at least at the moment) the very nasty habit of causing terrible zonewide lag everytime they proc. There are folks who aren't allowed to wear their precious Avatar-robe in raids because of this.</p><p>The bottom line (for me) is: My gear can solve power problems, my gear can give me more crits, it can't however do for me what the AGI-line does.</p><p>I'm specced AGI and STR atm, in case you're wondering. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[miliskel]

aahh..well, agi may stop that but  extra spells a minute means more damage however unless ur tank has quite a bit of increase hate gear asnd a great  trasnfer i think that the few extra crits a minute is a bit over the top =(

[knightofround]

AGI is our biggest DPS line. Nothing out of STR or WIS comes close to casting 12% more spells.WIS is the second best DPS line, IMHO. After doing some testing, STR gave me about 1% more dps over WIS, but personally I prefer WIS becase 1. You won't spike crits, accidently nabbing yourself aggro 2. the WIS line's magi shield and power reduction ability is more useful than the other crap you get in the STR tree.However, I would recommend every warlock who's beginning to raid to try out the INT line first. It's really an art form to figure out how much you can AE on which fights in the game; and Concussive Blast is a useful get-out-of-jail-free card to test how hard you can push your DPS. Once you get a feel for walking the aggro line on your warlock, by all means switch to a higher DPS build.

[Araxes]

The funniest thing about this thread is, I remember when Achievements were introduced, everyone laughed at the AGI line.  I actually took it as my first choice (I repsec for raids depending on the situation and am currently STR/WIS) and everyone was like "OMG man why bother with AGI, it's useless."  haha  ... Amazing how opinion changes. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />