Linking Legends of Norrath to EQ2 - square peg in round hole?

[Sanlail]

<p>I don't have a problem with Sony making a new game, but why would they think linking this to EQ2 was a good idea?  The games don't really seem related at all (short of a little artwork).  The game play is compeltely different as is the target audience.  From all the descriptions I've seen this has the potential to unbalance the existing game, as well as forcing current players to play a game they don't want and didn't buy to be able to have the best equipment in the game they do want and did buy.  The whole concept of adding a card game to an MMORPG is ridiculous and whoever approved it should be flogged.</p><p> Sony, please just launch this as a seperate game and don't break EQ2 by linking the two.</p>

[BarrowBott]

<cite>Sanlail wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I don't have a problem with Sony making a new game, but why would they think linking this to EQ2 was a good idea?  The games don't really seem related at all (short of a little artwork).  The game play is compeltely different as is the target audience.  From all the descriptions I've seen this has the potential to unbalance the existing game, as well as forcing current players to play a game they don't want and didn't buy to be able to have the best equipment in the game they do want and did buy.  The whole concept of adding a card game to an MMORPG is ridiculous and whoever approved it should be flogged.</p><p> Sony, please just launch this as a seperate game and don't break EQ2 by linking the two.</p></blockquote><p>I don't think the audience is all that different.  People have been mixing RPGs and card games for years.  Frankly, I'm surprised that one hasn't been directly integrated into an MMO yet.  </p><p>You really think the target audience of an MMORPG and a fantasy based CCG are all that different?  Ever play Magic?  I know I did.</p><p>The thought that the best equipment in EQ2 is going to be obtainable as rewards within the card game is erroneous.  You are getting entirely too worked up over this.</p>

[Sanlail]

<p>Yes I do believe the audience is different as the gameplay is totally different.  I never played Magic or any other card-based game, they never seemed at all interesting to me.</p><p> I've played many different RPGs, both in person and on the computer and I don't know a single instance where RPGs and CCGs have been mixed.  Please enlighten me. (no I'm not being facecious, I really would like to know)</p><p> If it's just fun spell type stuff that will be available through LoN then I'm not worried at all.  I just won't play it.  If it's something that actually has an effect on the game (e.g. any buffs, upgraded mounts, etc) then they shouldn't penalize the folks who don't like card games by not letting them get those items unless they play this unrelated game.  If those same rewards are available in the base game through some other mechanism that takes comparable effort to acquire then I won't have any issue at all.</p><p>I still think the time spent on LoN would be better spent on fixing bugs in the base game or working on Kunark or pretty much anything else that's actually related to EQ2.</p>

[Ancalima]

<cite>Sanlail wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I still think the time spent on LoN would be better spent on fixing bugs in the base game or working on Kunark or pretty much anything else that's actually related to EQ2.</p></blockquote>It's a different company working on LoN. SOE is fully focused on their MMOs. Worlds Apart/ SOE-Denver is in charge of the CCGs.

[BarrowBott]

<cite>Sanlail wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yes I do believe the audience is different as the gameplay is totally different.  I never played Magic or any other card-based game, they never seemed at all interesting to me.</p><p> I've played many different RPGs, both in person and on the computer and I don't know a single instance where RPGs and CCGs have been mixed.  Please enlighten me. (no I'm not being facecious, I really would like to know)</p><p> If it's just fun spell type stuff that will be available through LoN then I'm not worried at all.  I just won't play it.  If it's something that actually has an effect on the game (e.g. any buffs, upgraded mounts, etc) then they shouldn't penalize the folks who don't like card games by not letting them get those items unless they play this unrelated game.  If those same rewards are available in the base game through some other mechanism that takes comparable effort to acquire then I won't have any issue at all.</p><p>I still think the time spent on LoN would be better spent on fixing bugs in the base game or working on Kunark or pretty much anything else that's actually related to EQ2.</p></blockquote><p>Ok, you may not have played any CCGs, but many of us have.</p><p>Card games have been integrated into many of the games within the Final Fantasy series, as well as other games.  Most notably Square Enix games though.</p><p>Also, you aren't being penalized by not <i>playing</i> the game.  You will get card/booster drops the same as anyone.  Log into the client, get your cards, and any rewards will be made available to you.  You don't have to play the game to get the rewards.</p><p>As for the people buying cards to obtain rewards, someone on the boards called it "Financial Darwinism", and I couldn't agree more.  If someone <i>wants</i> to spend 500 bucks IRL to get a faster mount, let them!  LOL.</p>

[Aurumn]

<cite>Sanlail wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> I've played many different RPGs, both in person and on the computer and <b>I don't know a single instance where RPGs and CCGs have been mixed</b>.  Please enlighten me. (no I'm not being facecious, I really would like to know)</p></blockquote><p>Assuming you're referring to RPGs in general and not just MMORPG's there is a trading card game in Final Fantasy IX. I vaguely recall it being in FFVIII and maybe even FFX as well. Forgive my dusty memory, but it has been a LONG time since I played those. </p><p>There are many examples of mini-games being inserted into RPGs, especially console games. It's a "side-quest" of sorts to help you pass the time. Maybe you want to jump into a quick game rather than burn a couple hours harvesting. Maybe you didn't get a spot on the night's raid so you're bored, etc. Folks that are motivated to collect every bit of loot in the game just to say they did, or feel pressured to do so because someone else did will feel this way no matter what new content is added. As long as they're not removing existing content to make room for the game I see no problem. Maybe it'll give folks something to do in the taverns. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>**edited 'cause I can't spell.<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />**</p>

[Sanlail]

<cite>BarrowBottum wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok, you may not have played any CCGs, but many of us have.</p><p>Card games have been integrated into many of the games within the Final Fantasy series, as well as other games.  Most notably Square Enix games though.</p><p>Also, you aren't being penalized by not <i>playing</i> the game.  You will get card/booster drops the same as anyone.  Log into the client, get your cards, and any rewards will be made available to you.  You don't have to play the game to get the rewards.</p><p>As for the people buying cards to obtain rewards, someone on the boards called it "Financial Darwinism", and I couldn't agree more.  If someone <i>wants</i> to spend 500 bucks IRL to get a faster mount, let them!  LOL.</p></blockquote><p>So there's no in-game benefit to actually playing the card game?  Thanks for letting me know, I guess I really don't have any objection then.</p><p>The possible issues with people paying large amounts of RL cash for a small chance at some marginal improvement items doesn't really bother me that much.  It's happening today with major items all the time and other than the spammers pestering me it doesn't really reduce my enjoyment of the game.</p><p>P.S. I guess I forgot the card game I played during my brief stint in Vanguard.  That was fun for about the first 5 hands, then it was just a grind.  Hope this one is better.</p>

[Armironhead]

<cite>Sanlail wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I don't have a problem with Sony making a new game, but why would they think linking this to EQ2 was a good idea?  The games don't really seem related at all (short of a little artwork).  The game play is compeltely different as is the target audience.  From all the descriptions I've seen this has the potential to unbalance the existing game, as well as forcing current players to play a game they don't want and didn't buy to be able to have the best equipment in the game they do want and did buy.  The whole concept of adding a card game to an MMORPG is ridiculous and whoever approved it should be flogged.</p><p> Sony, please just launch this as a seperate game and don't break EQ2 by linking the two.</p></blockquote>Isnt soe just doing it because WOW did it first?  I know I saw wow cards in a store and on them was the promise that there were rewards with in game effects.  For SOE its part of their never ending game of catch up. Problem is that they are chasing an out of date flavor.  instead of chasing WOW they should be trying to cherry pick ideas from Age of Conan and Warhammar.  Especially the guild cities and battle keeps.  Personally, I think the whole thing stinks.  Being forced to play pokemon and all that - something which is only suitable for the preteen set.

[Josgar]

<cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sanlail wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I don't have a problem with Sony making a new game, but why would they think linking this to EQ2 was a good idea?  The games don't really seem related at all (short of a little artwork).  The game play is compeltely different as is the target audience.  From all the descriptions I've seen this has the potential to unbalance the existing game, as well as forcing current players to play a game they don't want and didn't buy to be able to have the best equipment in the game they do want and did buy.  The whole concept of adding a card game to an MMORPG is ridiculous and whoever approved it should be flogged.</p><p> Sony, please just launch this as a seperate game and don't break EQ2 by linking the two.</p></blockquote>Isnt soe just doing it because WOW did it first?  I know I saw wow cards in a store and on them was the promise that there were rewards with in game effects.  For SOE its part of their never ending game of catch up. Problem is that they are chasing an out of date flavor.  instead of chasing WOW they should be trying to cherry pick ideas from Age of Conan and Warhammar.  Especially the guild cities and battle keeps.  Personally, I think the whole thing stinks.  Being forced to play pokemon and all that - something which is only suitable for the preteen set.</blockquote>WoW's card game is OFFLINE though... so technically this is a new/ and in my opinion better concept.

[Armironhead]

<cite>BarrowBottum wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sanlail wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yes I do believe the audience is different as the gameplay is totally different.  I never played Magic or any other card-based game, they never seemed at all interesting to me.</p><p> I've played many different RPGs, both in person and on the computer and I don't know a single instance where RPGs and CCGs have been mixed.  Please enlighten me. (no I'm not being facecious, I really would like to know)</p><p> If it's just fun spell type stuff that will be available through LoN then I'm not worried at all.  I just won't play it.  If it's something that actually has an effect on the game (e.g. any buffs, upgraded mounts, etc) then they shouldn't penalize the folks who don't like card games by not letting them get those items unless they play this unrelated game.  If those same rewards are available in the base game through some other mechanism that takes comparable effort to acquire then I won't have any issue at all.</p><p>I still think the time spent on LoN would be better spent on fixing bugs in the base game or working on Kunark or pretty much anything else that's actually related to EQ2.</p></blockquote><p>Ok, you may not have played any CCGs, but many of us have.</p><p>Card games have been integrated into many of the games within the Final Fantasy series, as well as other games.  Most notably Square Enix games though.</p><p>Also, you aren't being penalized by not <i>playing</i> the game.  You will get card/booster drops the same as anyone.  Log into the client, get your cards, and any rewards will be made available to you.  You don't have to play the game to get the rewards.</p><p>As for the people buying cards to obtain rewards, someone on the boards called it "Financial Darwinism", and I couldn't agree more.  If someone <i>wants</i> to spend 500 bucks IRL to get a faster mount, let them!  LOL.</p></blockquote>uh maybe not on a pvp server -- but clearly if someone gets a 50 speed carpet with combat benefits from buying a pack of cards, well then everyone else on the server who doesnt have one is clearly at a disadvantage. 

[Talz]

<cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BarrowBottum wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sanlail wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yes I do believe the audience is different as the gameplay is totally different.  I never played Magic or any other card-based game, they never seemed at all interesting to me.</p><p> I've played many different RPGs, both in person and on the computer and I don't know a single instance where RPGs and CCGs have been mixed.  Please enlighten me. (no I'm not being facecious, I really would like to know)</p><p> If it's just fun spell type stuff that will be available through LoN then I'm not worried at all.  I just won't play it.  If it's something that actually has an effect on the game (e.g. any buffs, upgraded mounts, etc) then they shouldn't penalize the folks who don't like card games by not letting them get those items unless they play this unrelated game.  If those same rewards are available in the base game through some other mechanism that takes comparable effort to acquire then I won't have any issue at all.</p><p>I still think the time spent on LoN would be better spent on fixing bugs in the base game or working on Kunark or pretty much anything else that's actually related to EQ2.</p></blockquote><p>Ok, you may not have played any CCGs, but many of us have.</p><p>Card games have been integrated into many of the games within the Final Fantasy series, as well as other games.  Most notably Square Enix games though.</p><p>Also, you aren't being penalized by not <i>playing</i> the game.  You will get card/booster drops the same as anyone.  Log into the client, get your cards, and any rewards will be made available to you.  You don't have to play the game to get the rewards.</p><p>As for the people buying cards to obtain rewards, someone on the boards called it "Financial Darwinism", and I couldn't agree more.  If someone <i>wants</i> to spend 500 bucks IRL to get a faster mount, let them!  LOL.</p></blockquote>uh maybe not on a pvp server -- but clearly if someone gets a 50 speed carpet with combat benefits from buying a pack of cards, well then everyone else on the server who doesnt have one is clearly at a disadvantage.  </blockquote>I can get a 50% speed mount now on a level one character and have on level five characters that did all the isle quests.  I bet there are hundreds of players that can do that for every one player that will spend hundreds of dollars on cards.I agree that SOE is on a very slippery slope but everything those cards offer are either fluff, consumables people are blowing way out of proportion or things you can buy from woodworkers and tinkerers.

[Coniaric]

<cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote>uh maybe not on a pvp server -- but clearly if someone gets a 50 speed carpet with combat benefits from buying a pack of cards, well then everyone else on the server who doesnt have one is clearly at a disadvantage.  </blockquote><p>Can you clarify how that is a disadvantage? And at least on a pvp server?</p><p>Run speed is generally disabled while in combat so it doesn't matter if it's 45% or 50%. </p><p>Unless the disadvantage is "the running from the enemy" part?</p><p>The skill benefits are a minor upgrade at least - there are mounts already in-game that give almost that amount. If a player on that mount dies in a dungeon / instance ... they can't resummon it until they're outside again.</p><p>Buying packs is optional and people with money will buy - that is a given - and they may gain loot cards sooner than other players who opted to collect through in-game drops and/or through trading. Many of loot cards are basically a fluff and look cool in some regards. And general effects can be found on other loot that drop or quested in game.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<cite>BarrowBottum wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't think the audience is all that different.  People have been mixing RPGs and card games for years.  Frankly, I'm surprised that one hasn't been directly integrated into an MMO yet.  </blockquote><p>Vanguard uses a card battle game for it's Diplomacy quests.</p><p>Anyways, what are you (topic creator) getting worked up over? The loot obtained from LoN will not unbalance the game. Only ONE item so far is on the unfair side, and that is the 50% run speed Warg that you can loot from Contested Mayong. All the other items are house furniture, XP-gain potions that everyone can already /claim, Visual fun spells, or cloaks that both decrease fall damage and gives one type of illusion, like a snake or an inconspicuous Box.</p>

[ke'la]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BarrowBottum wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't think the audience is all that different.  People have been mixing RPGs and card games for years.  Frankly, I'm surprised that one hasn't been directly integrated into an MMO yet.  </blockquote><p>Vanguard uses a card battle game for it's Diplomacy quests.</p><p>Anyways, what are you (topic creator) getting worked up over? The loot obtained from LoN will not unbalance the game. Only ONE item so far is on the unfair side, and that is the 50% run speed Warg that you can loot from Contested Mayong. All the other items are house furniture, XP-gain potions that everyone can already /claim, Visual fun spells, or cloaks that both decrease fall damage and gives one type of illusion, like a snake or an inconspicuous Box.</p></blockquote>I beleave that the Mount is accually only available as a reward for winning a Tournament wich means that only 1 Player gamewide will be able to get it, per tourniment(assuming the winner is an EQ2 player and not an EQ1 Player)

[Cusashorn]

<cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BarrowBottum wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't think the audience is all that different.  People have been mixing RPGs and card games for years.  Frankly, I'm surprised that one hasn't been directly integrated into an MMO yet.  </blockquote><p>Vanguard uses a card battle game for it's Diplomacy quests.</p><p>Anyways, what are you (topic creator) getting worked up over? The loot obtained from LoN will not unbalance the game. Only ONE item so far is on the unfair side, and that is the 50% run speed Warg that you can loot from Contested Mayong. All the other items are house furniture, XP-gain potions that everyone can already /claim, Visual fun spells, or cloaks that both decrease fall damage and gives one type of illusion, like a snake or an inconspicuous Box.</p></blockquote>I beleave that the Mount is accually only available as a reward for winning a Tournament wich means that only 1 Player gamewide will be able to get it, per tourniment(assuming the winner is an EQ2 player and not an EQ1 Player)</blockquote>An EQ1 player can't obtain EQ2 loot and vice versa, so I would assume that the highest winning EQ2 player will get it, even if like 17 EQlive players beat him out.

[Armironhead]

<cite>Coniaric wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote>uh maybe not on a pvp server -- but clearly if someone gets a 50 speed carpet with combat benefits from buying a pack of cards, well then everyone else on the server who doesnt have one is clearly at a disadvantage.  </blockquote><p>Can you clarify how that is a disadvantage? And at least on a pvp server?</p><p>Run speed is generally disabled while in combat so it doesn't matter if it's 45% or 50%. </p><p>Unless the disadvantage is "the running from the enemy" part?</p><p>The skill benefits are a minor upgrade at least - there are mounts already in-game that give almost that amount. If a player on that mount dies in a dungeon / instance ... they can't resummon it until they're outside again.</p><p>Buying packs is optional and people with money will buy - that is a given - and they may gain loot cards sooner than other players who opted to collect through in-game drops and/or through trading. Many of loot cards are basically a fluff and look cool in some regards. And general effects can be found on other loot that drop or quested in game.</p></blockquote>Well, yea exactly.  The advantage/disadvantage is being able to avoid fights.  Running is considered by many on the PVP servers to be a major pia.  Also the combat benefits are not chump change.  Every little bit helps in a dog eat dog world.  Carpets were not the only thing btw that seemed to have a pvp impact.  There were some items that would change you into zombies and such an that appeared to give you some sort of damage shield --- so I dont view these as mostly harmless fun items.  At least on the pvp servers they have the potental for an impact.  Whether that is good or bad -- well I think most of soe's changes that hit the pvp servers are bad -- they just cant help themselves. 

[Leatherneck]

Maybe, but PVP players are supposed to be tough and enjoy changing up the game, so they shouldn't have a problem with it.

[ke'la]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BarrowBottum wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't think the audience is all that different.  People have been mixing RPGs and card games for years.  Frankly, I'm surprised that one hasn't been directly integrated into an MMO yet.  </blockquote><p>Vanguard uses a card battle game for it's Diplomacy quests.</p><p>Anyways, what are you (topic creator) getting worked up over? The loot obtained from LoN will not unbalance the game. Only ONE item so far is on the unfair side, and that is the 50% run speed Warg that you can loot from Contested Mayong. All the other items are house furniture, XP-gain potions that everyone can already /claim, Visual fun spells, or cloaks that both decrease fall damage and gives one type of illusion, like a snake or an inconspicuous Box.</p></blockquote>I beleave that the Mount is accually only available as a reward for winning a Tournament wich means that only 1 Player gamewide will be able to get it, per tourniment(assuming the winner is an EQ2 player and not an EQ1 Player)</blockquote>An EQ1 player can't obtain EQ2 loot and vice versa, so I would assume that the highest winning EQ2 player will get it, even if like 17 EQlive players beat him out.</blockquote>Accually the way the loot cards seem to work is you get "equivallent loot". So the if the Winner was an EQ1 player they would get the "Tournyment Award Card" wich is in EQ2 a Warg but in EQ1 something differant. Its just like the Card Fan Fair People got if you Wanted the EQ2 Iteam you got an In Game Lamp house iteam, The EQ1 people got something differant. The same would be true of the Tournyment.

[hellfire]

The mount isnt from winning tornament its just loot card that you claim.also its not the same as the mayoung mount.Mayoung has better/different grafics.