Need help buying a PC!

[Fustapfe]

<p>Hi all, soon it'll be my brother's birthday and I want to buy him a decent PC for gaming, since he can't even run the latest games. The problem is I have no idea at all about computers! I've been looking for offers and this one seemed OK, but I need confirmation since I don't know if the video card is any good.</p><p>- AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+</p><p>- 3 GB RAM SDRAM DDR2</p><p>- 320 GB hard drive </p><p>- NVIDIA® GeForce 6150 SE GPU video card</p><p>- High Definition Audio 7.1 </p><p>- Windows Vista Home Premium</p><p>It costs 600€ (809$), but I can spend around 700€ (944$).</p><p>Any help will be appreciated, many thanks in advance. </p>

[RanmaBoyType]

<p><blockquote>NVIDIA® GeForce 6150 SE GPU video card</blockquote></p><p>no</p><p>for todays games and if buying a new computer, i would seriously recommend at least a 7 series card.  you can get a 7950 pretty cheap now.  If you really want your brother to like you though, i recommend a geforce 8800 card, as that has dx10 support for future gaming.</p><p>not that the video card listed is absolutely horrible, but for the demand of todays games, i personally would not want it.</p>

[Fustapfe]

<p>Many thanks <b>RanmaBoyType </b>, sadly I can't afford a 7950, is a 7500 any good?  And how about an ATI X1550 256 MB Ded? </p><p>Thanks again.</p>

[Neofa]

<cite>Fustapfe wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Many thanks <b>RanmaBoyType </b>, sadly I can't afford a 7950, is a 7500 any good?  And how about an ATI X1550 256 MB Ded? </p><p>Thanks again.</p></blockquote><div>I have virtually an identical system.. bought it about 4months ago (First one I've boughten , instead of built in years) -- Anyhow.  It came with Two AMD 64Bit 5200+ Processors.. So a little more powerful, but what your going after will do just fine on Processor speed.</div><div>With Vista, you really want 2Gigs of ram,.. </div><div>But, as the previous poster mentioned, it all looks great, except the Video card.  My system had the Nvidia 6150 in it as well (On board).</div><div>I just , today, bought an upgrade.  Due to starting playing EQII again.  </div><div>You see that card, which is quite popular, is being put into alot of systems, even high end 'gaming' systems by large manufacturers.. But the card is just too weak.</div><div>Its not a bad card, in fact it handles everything but INTENSE games, like EQ2 decently.  IE: Madden 08, and such will play fairly well.</div><div>With that said, you must , MUST get a better card, PCI-E (Express) X16 form factor  (Which the computer will have available), for it.</div><div>I found a good deal, and the change is night and day.</div><div>I just found, at best buy, a Geforce 8500GT, 512MB Card, 450Mhz Core clock, 128-Bit memory interface, 800Mhz memory data rate,.. Dual 400Mhz RAMDAC's, and so on.  Its designed for DX10 and all previous versions, is optimized to run on Windows Vista.. so its the perfect choice.</div><div>Why?  Because its right up there in the 8000 series, but at a bargain price.  148$ US.  (You can afford that upgrade).</div><div>The card numbers can be confusing, due to the way they are designed.. Generally the higher the number the better.  But not always.</div><div>For example, A Geforce 7900 Is better than this card in Gaming (but not HD, DVD/movie playback etc) -- As such the 7900 is more expensive.  It is due to Clock speeds and so on mainly.</div><div>I've never been a 'fan' of ATI -- But a comparable ATI Card would be the 1850-1950X series.  The 1950X series is the latest , and ranks right up there with the 8000 Series of Nvidia's cards.</div><div>I'd stick with Nvidia for bargain though.  If you can't access a Best Buy, go to <a href="http://www.newegg.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.newegg.com</a> and look for the card I mentioned.</div><div>For your own purposes (I know I wish I had this guide) -- I will list the cards in order of 'Gaming Potential' --  Top = Max performance in Game:</div><div>Geforce 8800</div><div>Geforce 7900</div><div>Geforce 8600</div><div>Geforce 7600 - Geforce 8500  (These are neck and neck, due to the memory size on the card I bought)</div><div>Geforce 8500GT (Preferred, 148$) -- Best bang for buck.</div><div>Geforce 7300 - (You can grab this card well under 100$ -- And runs the game fairly well.  It is a significant upgrade to the 6150, but I would jump to the 8500GT 512MB if you possibly can.</div><div>Geforce 7100</div><div>No point in going any lower,.. and The 7300 is about the lowest you want to go on the totem pole for the game.</div><div>I can't list ATI's cards in comparison like that -- But I can say the 1950X is about on par with the 8600-8800 series, depending on RAM size and so forth.</div><div>The top of the line card from each manufacturer is 400+$ and just isn't worth the money at this juncture, it never is.  In a year it'l be a third of that price. </div><div>To put in in terms of what it changes:</div><div>I was running similar system, with 6150 on board, and I had to run in Extreme Performance, and it still wasn't that smooth.  Extreme performance makes the game look like EQ1 or worse , and makes the gameplay almost not worth playing.. Very annoying.  (Some can tolerate choppyness, better than others).  </div><div>For me, I have to have 25-30FPS 'most of the time' to appease my eyes.  And I can tell a difference in 35 and 40 FPS.. Alot of people can't.</div><div>For FPS sake, Movies run at 24FPS,.. that is the general rule of thumb to aim for at minimum for an enjoyable experience, is 23-24FPS on average.  At times you will drop below, and at times you will go well above.. (With the right card/settings).</div><div>Lastly, I went from Extreme Performance, to 'High Quality' and still have a much smoother game with the card change.  The 6150 Is most definitely the bottleneck in this system.</div><div>Wordy post to regurgitate what was previously said, but hope it helps anyhow.</div><div>You have a lucky brother!</div><div>Rapidfury</div>

[Fustapfe]

<p>Thank you very much <b>Neofate</b>, your post was very very (very) helpful. (<b>RanmaBoyType </b>helped me a lot too).</p><p>Thanks to your small guide I took a look at my nearest shop (the one which sells that PC) and saw 2 video cards similar to the one you recommend:  PNY 8500 GT 256P and PNY PCIE NVIDIA 8500GT 256, both cost 170$ (no more new clothes for me for a month). They don't have 512 MB but they clock at 450 MHz too, and they seem to be compatible with DirectX 10. I really hate asking again but are there any differences between the two? Will they be a decent improvement from the 6150 (you made me hate it)?</p><p>Many thanks again, and yes my brother is lucky but he deserves it hehe. </p><p>Edit: I'm sorry, you already told me PCIE is better, please ignore my question.</p>

[batsu3]

<p>If you haven't already bought the card, I suggest checking out <a href="http://www.newegg.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.Newegg.com</a> </p><p>Not only is there a huge list of decently priced cards by both nVidia and ATI (and their third party knockoffs), but they also offer buying guides to help muddle through the difference between cards, complete with comparison charts for the number of pixel pipelines and shaders, and in depth reviews from people who purchased the cards. Just for perspective, I run an X1650Pro w/256MB RAM, and only 1 GB of  DDR RAM. I can run some hi-rez textures, but it gets boggy in cities. If you go the ATI route I would suggest at least an X1650 w/512 RAM to go with your 3 GB of RAM, and more if you can afford it. You can get the X1650 / 512s for around $100 on Newegg.</p>

[Dred]

<p>hi guys im hopeing u can help me out with this similar question.  im building a new computer for the eq2 expansion RoK and i have a question about CPU and eq2. ive been reading toms hard ware guide and am looking for a sub $200 cpu. from what i can see the AMD 6000+ has about the same preformance of the intel core 2 duo E6400 (also considering E6600) and the amd is just under 200 while the intel is just above that. also i dont want to overclock the processor and tweek the system (from my expierence overclocked system uasually dont last as long)</p><p>question is should i go amd or intel? what plays better with everquest 2?</p><p>also is a geforce 8800gts good or is it overkill? </p>

[Hexen575]

<cite>RanmaBoyType wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>NVIDIA® GeForce 6150 SE GPU video card</blockquote><p>not that the video card listed is absolutely horrible, but for the demand of todays games, i personally would not want it.</p><p>Um, that's an onboard card...it shares system RAM...that would be a VERY bad card for gaming, even EQ2. Get something better, you will be much happier in the long run.</p><p>Dredok, Intels are better clock-for-clock than AMD right now(2.4GHz to 2.4GHz). However, sometimes price makes a BIG difference. AMDs are cheaper, the mobos are cheaper(on average). Basically, you want the fastest(GHz) CPU you can afford on a quality </p></blockquote>

[antwar]

<cite>Dredok wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>hi guys im hopeing u can help me out with this similar question.  im building a new computer for the eq2 expansion RoK and i have a question about CPU and eq2. ive been reading toms hard ware guide and am looking for a sub $200 cpu. from what i can see the AMD 6000+ has about the same preformance of the intel core 2 duo E6400 (also considering E6600) and the amd is just under 200 while the intel is just above that. also i dont want to overclock the processor and tweek the system (from my expierence overclocked system uasually dont last as long)</p><p>question is should i go amd or intel? what plays better with everquest 2?</p><p>also is a geforce 8800gts good or is it overkill? </p></blockquote><p>if you want a 200 dollar CPU, and you are not adverse to buying an intel one, consider the newer 1333 FSB core 2s that intel just released. the E6750 is only about $205 US at newegg.com, and from the reviews there, it seems like it is a solid performer at stock speed, and they overclock SUPER easy with only air cooling. like some of the reviewers stated there, i HIGHLY recommend you get an aftermarket heatsink for it, because the stock intel ones can be tricky to install with those push-pins. i recommend a zalman 9700 series CPU HSF. they seem to be great performers. you might ask, how high can i overclock this thing? well, that all depends on your motherboard. if you get a really good one, such as a gigabyte DS3 motherboard, and update the bios to be compatible with these processors, i have heard they work extremely well. personally, i will go with an evga 680i SLI motherboard (A1 revision), because it has 6 SATA connectors and includes all 6 SATA cables (the T1 revision does not) and i will be buying 4 250GB SATA hard drives and make a raid 0+1 array so i have both data security and data performance. the choice in motherboards is totally up to you, but make sure you get one that is compatible with the 1333 Mhz FSB processors.</p><p>8800GTS is far from overkill, but i personally will be saving money on my own build by getting 2 8600GT cards and putting them into SLI when/if nvidia figures out the problems with SLI in thier drivers. i will get one at a time tho, so i can hold off for a while for nvidia to fix that problem.</p><p>finally, there is no one good processor to play EQ2, they all play the game equally well compared to its competition, for example, the amd 6000+ vs the e6400... they both play the game with little discernable differences.</p>

[Neofa]

<cite>Dredok wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>hi guys im hopeing u can help me out with this similar question.  im building a new computer for the eq2 expansion RoK and i have a question about CPU and eq2. ive been reading toms hard ware guide and am looking for a sub $200 cpu. from what i can see the AMD 6000+ has about the same preformance of the intel core 2 duo E6400 (also considering E6600) and the amd is just under 200 while the intel is just above that. also i dont want to overclock the processor and tweek the system (from my expierence overclocked system uasually dont last as long)</p><p>question is should i go amd or intel? what plays better with everquest 2?</p><p>also is a geforce 8800gts good or is it overkill? </p></blockquote><div>Here is my take on the AMD vs Intel.</div><div>I perfer AMD,.. I use Both,.. though I use MORE AMD.  IE: I just bought a Dual Core AMD 64Bit Processor.  However, with that said,.. Intel performs a *touch* better.</div><div>So if you have no issues with Intel, or no crushes with AMD,.. and the price difference is simply 10-20$,.. Stick with Intel for the most bang for the buck on the Game.  But your not going to see any major differences either way you go.  </div><div>As for the 8800GTS -- That depends on your cashflow.  If you CAN afford it, no, not an overkill.. But I'd buy within the 150-275$ Range on a Video card,.. I've never been able to spend the top dollar on the 'new' card just because it was 'the newest' .. Just knowing it would be 50% cheaper in months time.  You know?</div><div>The 8800GTS, of course, makes a difference in gameplay <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />    </div><div>I personally just bought an 8500GT -- on the cheap, and its great.  But, yes, I'd rather have the 8800 -- EQ2 is a game designed sooo many yrs ago, and the 8800GTS still isn't enough card for it to max out and be 50+FPS in ALL conditions.  Which is nuts lol..  I think 2-3 improvements,.. Maybe the 9000, or 10000 Series will finally have enough power to allow people to simply throw all the sliders to the right (mostly), and run anywhere.</div><div> </div>

[Zcore24]

<cite>Fustapfe wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Hi all, soon it'll be my brother's birthday and I want to buy him a decent PC for gaming, since he can't even run the latest games. The problem is I have no idea at all about computers! I've been looking for offers and this one seemed OK, but I need confirmation since I don't know if the video card is any good.</p><p>- AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+</p><p>- 3 GB RAM SDRAM DDR2</p><p>- 320 GB hard drive </p><p>- NVIDIA® GeForce 6150 SE GPU video card</p><p>- High Definition Audio 7.1 </p><p>- Windows Vista Home Premium</p><p>It costs 600€ (809$), but I can spend around 700€ (944$).</p><p>Any help will be appreciated, many thanks in advance. </p></blockquote>This looks very similar to some Hewlett-Packard systems that a client had me buy for him. If it is a HP computer, I would strongly suggest you upgrade the Power Supply along with the video card...I'm pretty sure the HP's are only 250-300W PSU's

[BrashEndeavo]

<cite>sorry for doublepost, see below</cite>

[BrashEndeavo]

<cite>Fustapfe wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Hi all, soon it'll be my brother's birthday and I want to buy him a decent PC for gaming, since he can't even run the latest games. The problem is I have no idea at all about computers! I've been looking for offers and this one seemed OK, but I need confirmation since I don't know if the video card is any good.</p><p>- AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+</p><p>- 3 GB RAM SDRAM DDR2</p><p>- 320 GB hard drive </p><p>- NVIDIA® GeForce 6150 SE GPU video card</p><p>- High Definition Audio 7.1 </p><p>- Windows Vista Home Premium</p><p>It costs 600€ (809$), but I can spend around 700€ (944$).</p><p>Any help will be appreciated, many thanks in advance. </p></blockquote>This one is in the UK and is cheaper *AND* better (<b>£596 inc VAT and Delivery -- even has a 19" LCD included)</b>. It has a tad less ram and smaller hard drive, but the cpu is a bit better and the videocard is TONS better, the one you are looking at will struggle with most games:<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/index.php?page=spec&&spec=gaming600" target="_blank">http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/index...;spec=gaming600</a>AMD ATHLON™ 64 X2 4200+ (2.2GHz) 2 x 512K L2 Cache (Socket AM2)2048 MB CORSAIR DDR2 667MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY! (2x1GB)ASUS® M2N-E SLI: DUAL DDR2, S-ATA II, 2 x PCI-Ex, 2 x PCIWINDOWS® VISTA Home Premium (inc Genuine CD & License) (£59)160GB SERIAL ATA II HARD DRIVE WITH 8MB CACHE (7200rpm)20x DVD±RW/RAM/Dual Layer + Lightscribe (48 x CD-RW) (£16)256MB GEFORCE 8600GT PCI Express + DVI + TV-OUT   << === this videocard is MUCH MUCH better than the 6150, which won't even run most modern games8 Channel C-Media Superior Quality Audio 7.1 (M2N-E SLI)500W (Peak) Quiet Dual Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£25)19 INCH TFT Silver/Black 1280 x1024 8MS D-Sub, DVI, Audio (£105)Personally I would avoid HP systems for gaming. They usually also come preloaded with a lot of gunkware that hurts gaming performance.