I give up on Sony fixing Coercer... moved on to other class. [Archive]

Oriax

08-21-2007, 05:35 AM

I don't understand why everyone is always complaining about how the coercer is so screwed up. I love the coercer class. Got a 70 and am working on leveling a new one <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I really don't find it to be all that messed up. Possession is great for beating about half the life out of it before the spell wears off and it comes after you. Charm is just awesome, if you get a mage pet they normally always nuke for around 3k or more at range. I do agree that it kinda sucks that SOE made some normal mobs uncharmable, but oh well. I dunno maybe it's mostly you all that are active raiders that are unhappy with coercer. I personally don't raid that often and play 90% of the time solo. Soloing dungeons and instances that should be done with a group. Can't say that I can complain about that <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But good luck with you Dirge Jeepned2.

Rarlin

08-21-2007, 09:12 AM

WasFycksir

08-21-2007, 12:00 PM

I have an ok time with my 47 on Nagafen vs. PVE. But honestly it's just too much work and too hard to PVP him. I think of myself as a better than average player, not uber honestly. Solo, it's just a pain, no dps without getting smacked myself, no shields/runes/, pets that don't seem to do their job wether it's mage or tank, and charm in pvp is a total joke. In groups it's only a bit better as the opponents go straight for me, even before the healer. Yes I am whining, but it's just not fun.I suppose if I had a set group of some type it would be better, but my schedule just doesn't permit that. And yes I know that's my problem, just saying is all.

Oriax

08-21-2007, 01:11 PM

When it comes to charm I presume that alot of people try to play it similar to way that a summoner class would play. Doing that way just simply will not work and in the end leads to frustration. Also you can't expect to jump in and dps or burn down a mob. With Coercer, patience is the key, If you don't have the patience then it's game over. To me it feels like alot of people play with the; "I'm gonna rush in and dps that mob to death before it does me" attitude. Find the right strategy and technique and you can kill mobs with relative ease.

Signal9

08-21-2007, 02:24 PM

<cite>Jeepned2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Level 70 Coercer...raid geared from raiding EH, MMIS and FTH. I give up... moved on to a Dirge. Two years was long enough to wait for Sony to get thier **** together on fixing us. Good luck to the rest of you. </blockquote> I've given up on my Coercer 3 separate times. and keep coming back. No other class comes close to what Coercers can do. We're not good DPS, can't take a hit, but when it comes time to act, we just take charge.

Balrok

08-21-2007, 06:04 PM

Name me another class that can do the following on a raid.<ol><li>Regen group power and give power to players. (Blance Power out in group)</li><li>Lower and increase hate on players.</li><li>Buff healer heals.</li><li>AoE Mez, Stun and Daze.</li><li>Single target Mez, Stun, STifle.</li><li>All while maintaining 800-1400 DPS.</li></ol>Answer, Coercer. Heroic Groups or just exping with a group of 6, you will make a sub-average group stellar! Good luck doing the toughest T7 zones without a chanter.Solo.. You can pretty much anywhere (even Heroics) if played right. SoE has nerfed some of the places we can solo, but still alot of places we can still go.I did Claymore on my Zerker and Assassin and it was a heck of alot of grouping to get done. I did it on my Coercer and I dang near solo'ed all the heroic stuff.pvp... get to 70 and practice. There are few classes that can beat you 1v1. A Coercer in a Good pvp group is godly, PERIOD!Not sure what the complaints are about... I'll agree I think Illy's are overall better, but then you have to live in Qeynos. <img src="/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Jeepned2

08-22-2007, 01:46 AM

Oriax@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote>I don't understand why everyone is always complaining about how the coercer is so screwed up. I love the coercer class. Got a 70 and am working on leveling a new one <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I really don't find it to be all that messed up. Possession is great for beating about half the life out of it before the spell wears off and it comes after you. Charm is just awesome, if you get a mage pet they normally always nuke for around 3k or more at range. I do agree that it kinda sucks that SOE made some normal mobs uncharmable, but oh well. I dunno maybe it's mostly you all that are active raiders that are unhappy with coercer. I personally don't raid that often and play 90% of the time solo. Soloing dungeons and instances that should be done with a group. Can't say that I can complain about that <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But good luck with you Dirge Jeepned2.</blockquote>The problem is I'm a raider. And if you'd played a Coercer since almost the beginning you would have seen the destruction of our class by Sony over that period of time. I'm not deleting my Coercer, just not raiding with him anymore. Crowd Control in the raiding environment has become a joke over that time frame. So I moved on. But don't be surprised if you see me soloing in various zones. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Someday Sony will fix the Coercer, maybe, and like a previous post, I know I'll come back. It's just the frustration level has gotten too high and has gotten to the point where you pray not for fixes in updates, but pray that they didn't nerf us more. That's a sad way of having to look forward to updates. Of course all the things I just said about the Coercer, I also said about the monk almost a year ago. <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I guess I should feel lucky that one of my 70 toons isn't a Pally. And the Dirge if nothing else is a fun class to play also. Not nearly as challenging as the Coercer, but fun in it's own way. Good luck to the rest of you. PS. got rid of Coercive Healing and got Snap Thought instead. An almost required spell for Coercers going after Woushi, repeat almost.

KingAnt

08-22-2007, 05:38 AM

This has always happend with one class or another.As a raiding endgame dirge who has been around long enough to remember getting fished out of the ocean in a boat (I'm sure alot of you remember that old tutorial), I know that dirges have gone through their ups and downs as well. Rangers have been moaning for awhile now, assassins got upset about some AAs, and chanters have been slowly pecked more and more.I think Sony DOES address issues, but it does so at a glacier's pace. I remember as a dirge, we were waiting for a number of our class defining skills to get fixed as they released combat updates, complete game revisions, etc.The grass is always greener...BTW on a second note, I find that playing the game as a coercer is much easier than a RAID spec'd dirge, you can kill bigger things and have more fun with them.But I still wouldn't give up my dirge... I just send him "fishing" every once in awhile.

Blumfield

08-22-2007, 09:21 PM

<cite>Exur@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>pvp... get to 70 and practice. There are few classes that can beat you 1v1. A Coercer in a Good pvp group is godly, PERIOD!</blockquote>Gotta call ya on this one, though your other points are good. I've leveled up three of the gimpest PvP classes: Troub, Defiler, and Coercer. Troub and Defiler have a slight disadvantage in PvP; Coercer, with a raid spec, simply can not win a pvp fight in T7 1v1 except against very poor competition. On my all-treasured Defiler I beat just about everybody I meet 1v1. On the other hand, I play (arguably) the best geared Coercer on Vox, and about any class in MC gear can beat me if they're not entirely inept and we're not in bonemire/loping plains. Coercers need a serious PvP revamp--we're perhaps the best group PvP class out there, but solo PvP (without melee/int spec) isn't even worth considering.

Balrok

08-22-2007, 09:54 PM

<cite>Schmutzen@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Exur@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>pvp... get to 70 and practice. There are few classes that can beat you 1v1. A Coercer in a Good pvp group is godly, PERIOD!</blockquote>Gotta call ya on this one, though your other points are good. I've leveled up three of the gimpest PvP classes: Troub, Defiler, and Coercer. Troub and Defiler have a slight disadvantage in PvP; Coercer, with a raid spec, simply can not win a pvp fight in T7 1v1 except against very poor competition. On my all-treasured Defiler I beat just about everybody I meet 1v1. On the other hand, I play (arguably) the best geared Coercer on Vox, and about any class in MC gear can beat me if they're not entirely inept and we're not in bonemire/loping plains. Coercers need a serious PvP revamp--we're perhaps the best group PvP class out there, but solo PvP (without melee/int spec) isn't even worth considering.</blockquote>There you go. Fix your aa's and you'll do better. ... was out today. Killed 3 different Assassins, 2 Brigands, a grouped Brigand and 65 Ranger, Warden (bad one I'll admit) and an SK. Yesterday I dueled, imho the best SK on our server (we are both Exile now). Was freak'n awesome, we were both knocked out, but I revived first and dusted him off. I ruined his 150 something kill streak, so I don't think he was expecting it. Some of the Assassins I let come back and try again... one critted his decap, so he got me...... Anyhow, my arm is sore from patting myself on the back.Difficult, yes... doable, yes. I'll admit it's far from the easy to do scout/brawler... or even wizard/warlock with manashield.. but it's not that bad.Coercer behind a good Guard and a group that knows how to keep you alive and it's lights out for the other. I post a new vid once I get some more Exile material soon.

Blumfield

08-22-2007, 10:30 PM

<cite>Exur@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Schmutzen@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Exur@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>pvp... get to 70 and practice. There are few classes that can beat you 1v1. A Coercer in a Good pvp group is godly, PERIOD!</blockquote>Gotta call ya on this one, though your other points are good. I've leveled up three of the gimpest PvP classes: Troub, Defiler, and Coercer. Troub and Defiler have a slight disadvantage in PvP; Coercer, with a raid spec, simply can not win a pvp fight in T7 1v1 except against very poor competition. On my all-treasured Defiler I beat just about everybody I meet 1v1. On the other hand, I play (arguably) the best geared Coercer on Vox, and about any class in MC gear can beat me if they're not entirely inept and we're not in bonemire/loping plains. Coercers need a serious PvP revamp--we're perhaps the best group PvP class out there, but solo PvP (without melee/int spec) isn't even worth considering.</blockquote>There you go. Fix your aa's and you'll do better. ... was out today. Killed 3 different Assassins, 2 Brigands, a grouped Brigand and 65 Ranger, Warden (bad one I'll admit) and an SK. Yesterday I dueled, imho the best SK on our server (we are both Exile now). Was freak'n awesome, we were both knocked out, but I revived first and dusted him off. I ruined his 150 something kill streak, so I don't think he was expecting it. Some of the Assassins I let come back and try again... one critted his decap, so he got me...... Anyhow, my arm is sore from patting myself on the back.Difficult, yes... doable, yes. I'll admit it's far from the easy to do scout/brawler... or even wizard/warlock with manashield.. but it's not that bad.Coercer behind a good Guard and a group that knows how to keep you alive and it's lights out for the other. I post a new vid once I get some more Exile material soon.</blockquote>I'm a leader of a raid guild and the only coercer in the guild, so re-spec'ing isn't an option for me--but good work. It's nice to see a coercer out kicking tail. I think with some tweaks to the way our reactives work, both our PvP and PvE problems will be fixed, regardless of spec. Here's hoping they kill two birds with one stone come RoK.

Balrok

08-23-2007, 12:15 AM

I hear a rumor that we are getting AA builds we can switch back an forth with. Can't wait!!

Merowing

08-23-2007, 06:57 AM

yeah but i heared too that the only way doing that is in you house <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />so no trash inc = dd speccmana drain mob inc = mana lifetime specchm.. we will see <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Jeepned2

08-23-2007, 10:11 AM

<cite>KingAnt wrote:</cite><blockquote>This has always happend with one class or another.As a raiding endgame dirge who has been around long enough to remember getting fished out of the ocean in a boat (I'm sure alot of you remember that old tutorial), I know that dirges have gone through their ups and downs as well. Rangers have been moaning for awhile now, assassins got upset about some AAs, and chanters have been slowly pecked more and more.I think Sony DOES address issues, but it does so at a glacier's pace. I remember as a dirge, we were waiting for a number of our class defining skills to get fixed as they released combat updates, complete game revisions, etc.</blockquote>Yes, most classes have had their ups and downs. Unfortunately Coercers have only had downs, I was until recently, waiting on one of the ups. In the posting.. look up at one of the stickies that shows the history of Coercer changes, and you'd understand more about the continued destruction of the Coercer class.Sony has never addressed issues of the Coercer. I guess because there aren't enough of us to raise the stink level like some of the other classes can. What they do is just come out one day and say, "Hey, we are changing the way your hate works, hope you like it". Hate changes? I don't remember anyone being concerned about how our hate was working. How about some of the other things we have been complaining about since LU13? And in typical Sony style.... Silence. They seem really good at fixing the things we aren't concerned with and doing nothing about the things we are concerned with.Oh well, not my problem anymore. Now I can just set back and watch (and now complain about Dirge problems <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />). Someday Sony will have to address our concerns, I just hope it does it before I leave EQ2 for another game like I did with EQ1.

Balrok

08-23-2007, 11:40 AM

<cite>Merowing wrote:</cite><blockquote>yeah but i heared too that the only way doing that is in you house <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />so no trash inc = dd speccmana drain mob inc = mana lifetime specchm.. we will see <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>I'll be a happy person if I can switch aa's for raid and then switch back for solo (pvp).. so that part doesn't bug me.

Rarlin

08-23-2007, 02:24 PM

Actually,I really hope that they don't implement a change that would make it so we could infinately swap our AAs around. At that point it becomes totally pointless to choose one line over another so it negates the entire AA system IMO. If they were seriously contemplating allowing us to swap our AAs around as suggested I hope that they would just simply give us more AAs to dump and max our entire trees. (this I wouldn't mind so much)

Raidi Sovin'faile

08-25-2007, 02:10 AM

From what I've heard about it... you would get the ability to create a second AA spec, and then you are locked into those two. Basically, you can indefinately switch between two SPECIFIC AA spec's, not just any spec you want.

MerleApAmber

08-25-2007, 02:36 AM

I like the two AA sets idea over going down the max'd AA line EQ1 did. At least for now. Some day that might be a way to solve mature game issues. I became very frustrated with the whole thing about the time EQ2 came out and moved lot stock and barrels. Having been a chanter from beta EQ1, I'll agree with the OP that it seems the only answer class devs have used in the major is the nerf bat. But I'll give them one override on the whole picture. We are the Joker class in the deck and as such it's extremely difficult to play that trump to all the standard rule set encounters they have to build (of necessity) for the other 99% of the gaming population of toons. That they haven't given up on that initial vision is honestly to be commended. That those of us who play chanters, Illies and Coercers, love what we can do even with all our problems is a demonstration the vision was fair, and righteous, and worthy of all the heartaches which come with it. So, ya call me a whipped fanboi who doesn't get it and is Pollyanna'ish But at the same time... I still make wine out of crushed grapes and do it on a daily basis to the amazement of other players who don't often get to work with us. Add a bit of that foot fungus and we got cheese with that whyne too . <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Koltr

08-25-2007, 02:47 AM

<cite>Oriax@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't understand why everyone is always complaining about how the coercer is so screwed up. I love the coercer class. Got a 70 and am working on leveling a new one <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /> I really don't find it to be all that messed up. Possession is great for beating about half the life out of it before the spell wears off and it comes after you. Charm is just awesome, if you get a mage pet they normally always nuke for around 3k or more at range. I do agree that it kinda sucks that SOE made some normal mobs uncharmable, but oh well. I dunno maybe it's mostly you all that are active raiders that are unhappy with coercer. I personally don't raid that often and play 90% of the time solo. Soloing dungeons and instances that should be done with a group. Can't say that I can complain about that <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /> But good luck with you Dirge Jeepned2.</blockquote>You case sounds more like the exception than the rule. The coercer has been functional neutered for so long that it is more of a suggester than a coercer.

Flipmode

08-27-2007, 07:40 PM

Compared to Illusionists, Coercers are in a bad place right now. Buffs aside, they can do DPS reliably even while stunning/stifling mobs. Coercers are walking contradiction. We dont coerce, we merely suggest. We get the most stuns in the game, yet they give us reactive DPS, that doesnt reliably proc. They give us the uber charm that scales nice, and make any mob worth charming uncharmable. I mean, what is SOE's deal? Do they want all of the Coercers to quit?Sure I like playing the class, but I struggle to justify my spot in a raid, when you can just insert a bard of any flavor or a 2nd Illusionist and not skip a beat. Something has to give and knowing SOE, it will be the majority of the Coercers quitting. Luckily, when the game launched, I leveled an Illusionist too or I would be done with this game. I mean even the EoF AAs are horrible compared to the Illusionist. Its a [Removed for Content] shame what SOE did to us. Like the others have stated, my Coercer is on the shelf until they address our issues.

Rumbler

08-27-2007, 08:55 PM

Coercers have some nice utility and are valuable on raids but sometimes playing the class makes me want to chuck it all in. I can concentrate to limit of my abilities trying to squeeze out dps and sometimes I get a few hundred extra dps out of it and other times despite my bleeding eyes I will end up with 600dps or some other pathetic number. A huge amount of our damage is mostly out of our control with the reactives. Some mobs don't trigger them at all. Good tanks in defensive groups make it harder to trigger them and even our own stuns stop them from triggering. I was primarily interested in CHARM when I took up Coercer. I thought it was our primary ability but as a raider I never get to use it.At the same time certain other classes are pulling out 2k dps with auto attack while they watch tv. I definately think SoE owes the Coercers some loving. They are obviously a hard class to balance due to the nature of charm but rather than deal with it properly SoE seem to have taken the easy option of just killing it and haven't compenstated for killing charm by fixing our other abilities.

Flipmode

08-27-2007, 09:09 PM

I wish they would just take our reacives and make them tic of a dot instead. That way, I can DPS and stun at the time like most other classes. We need a reliable way to do damage without putting our own cloth wearing, non healing selfs out there. Sure we could use a pet, but they rarely last long enough to even proc all the tics of our reactives.I still think our charm being double penalize sucks. Either make the mob scale down like now and have it last the duration, or keep the mob as is and keep the early break. The latter is more risk vs reward than the first. As it is now our charm is lame except in HoF and Bonemire. What about the rest of the game? Thats right all the good mobs are uncharmable.

Hevan

08-27-2007, 09:15 PM

<cite>MerleApAmber wrote:</cite><blockquote>Having been a chanter from beta EQ1, I'll agree with the OP that it seems the only answer class devs have used in the major is the nerf bat. </blockquote>I too was a chanter from EQ1 and not just from beta. We were a much more needed class and our role was key on raids. Can you imagine that we were even allowed to mez and provide power to an entire raid? WOW what a concept! Does anyone remember runes? As annoying as chain runes were, we at least had some sort of role on raids, so the least they can do in EQ2 is allow us some form of usefulness besides feeding mana every few seconds and applying that ever useful lower level aggro buff. "That those of us who play chanters, Illies and Coercers, love what we can do even with all our problems is a demonstration the vision was fair, and righteous, and worthy of all the heartaches which come with it." You should go back to the top and re-read the title of this thread, then go have some cheese and whine yourself.

MerleApAmber

08-28-2007, 07:58 PM

<cite>Hevan wrote:</cite> <blockquote> You should go back to the top and re-read the title of this thread, then go have some cheese and whine yourself.</blockquote>Well, While I'll happily nod at your points and what I used to do in the other game. I knew the job was different in EQ2. I'm not saying I'm happy about not being able to take a strong ^^^ and use it like a 3up. I'm not saying my reactives only work out when the tank is on the ragged edge in a raid group of mobs spiking damage from 100 to 1 and up / down again a couple of times. I'm not saying I'm not chuffed about having Mez and stun be such a small serving of time and having to deal with raid wide immunities while the last good one times out. But I am saying, as many other characters as I've created in the game: I think I have one slot left... None of those hold a candle for me to the 'charms' of enchanting. So... I'll eat that cheese and drink that wine; toasting all of you who have left this plane and joined the other lights in the sky in the constellation "The Enchanter"