Out Damaged by a Guardian

[Bardrick]

Simple group, 66 Sk, 65 Gaurd, and 64 Fury doing writs in Bonemire.  I am parseing average 350. Guardian is about 550 with a buckler, Fury about 200.  We both have mastercrafted 1H weapons, Imbued and ornated for damage. I am healing myself about 2K a fight  etc with our little tricks, so no complatins on performance.  I am just wondering, how the heck do Guards get so much more damage then we do. I know full groups buffed with bards etc. I can get over 600, but all being fair. wow.  Any thoughts?

[Dead Knight]

They get 60% Double Attack or something close to that with their Buckler spec. They can and will outparse you until you get to 70 at a raid level, then you should be outparsing Guardians even when Buckler specced and don't really have an excuse.

[HentaiB]

<p>If he is a good guard and is the MT, and you are not in much of a group your still probably going to loose the zone parse to a guard.  It's crazy but that is how SOE wants it at the moment.  Beat our guard mt on last raid but I had a troub.  Zerker beat me by 800 on zone but then again he is in the super group.</p><p>We need love damnit.</p>

[Beldin_]

<cite>Bardrick wrote:</cite><blockquote>Simple group, 66 Sk, 65 Gaurd, and 64 Fury doing writs in Bonemire.  I am parseing average 350. Guardian is about 550 with a buckler, Fury about 200.  We both have mastercrafted 1H weapons, Imbued and ornated for damage. I am healing myself about 2K a fight  etc with our little tricks, so no complatins on performance.  I am just wondering, how the heck do Guards get so much more damage then we do. I know full groups buffed with bards etc. I can get over 600, but all being fair. wow.  Any thoughts? </blockquote> 350 dps ? What were you doing .. only autoattack ? You should do at least 6-700 if you solo these mobs, and in a group when you pull 4-8 at once and AoE them down 1000+ is possible.

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

Were you tanking? The extra dammage from caress, blessing etc will push you higher....but you need to get hit. 

[Bardrick]

1H and shield Auto attack gives me about 280.  I checked that.  I would use all my specials as soon as they came up.  Use HO when I could(we both finished them).  I am Adept 1 and skills and mastercrafted armor, weapon, and shield.  If I just smash everything, I can get up to 400.  Solo mobs only.  I know groups mobs go crazy with the dps., so it was not worth the comment. Remember, we had a small group, not raid, etc. Ravasects,  I am 66, most of them are yellow to me.

[Kaishod]

<p>I would suggest first get a 2h if the guard is going to MT.</p><p>If you were using a sword and board and not tanking, I going to guess you could have been in defensive stance... get into offensive stance</p><p>Depending on your AA set up, smite, smite, smite, lol</p>

[Beldin_]

<cite>Bardrick wrote:</cite><blockquote> I am Adept 1 and skills and mastercrafted armor, weapon, and shield.  </blockquote><p>Get Adept3's or better masters. Most masters for SKs are relative cheap (at least on my server).</p><p>Try to use your group-taunt for disease-debuff, even if the guard is tanking.</p><p>Also how much INT do you have, and have you at least skilled 4/4/8 in the INT tree ?</p>

[Terron]

What buffs had the fury used? Particularly had he buffed your Int?

[Bardrick]

My spec is: Str 4-4-5 Sta 4-4-2 Int 4-4-8 Reaver on the back. I have another 20 points to spend I think. My hammer is rated at 63 I think, with Velum shards proc, and a Vampiric hilt. My Shield is Mastercraft and imbued. All my skills are adept 1 or better. I am starting to think my ACT program is not set correctly.  I only loaded it in last weekend, ran the wizard, and hit control V for the results.  We were in a good group hammering on elves in New Tunare, and even the warlock and assasin were only in the 250's.  Same as me. Total seems to be correct, 20K Hits on the guards.    Battles lasting about 20 to 30 seconds. Mabey I am not understanding all this.  If a person was really hitting for 2K.. they would kill a 70 ^^^ heroic in 15 seconds.......  I have been to unrest in a full group with my fury.  I know we didn't  killed anything in 10 seconds.  If there was 4 people parsing 1.5K as people claim, then that is 6K per second. = 60K for the mobs....... where am I going wrong?  I seem to play well, no complaints from my tanking.  I can solo with ease.????

[Hamervelder]

<cite>Bardrick wrote:</cite><blockquote>My spec is: Str 4-4-5 Sta 4-4-2 Int 4-4-8 <span style="color: #ffcc00">I'd get rid of the str line.  Keep going down the stamina line to get the melee crit bonus.</span> Reaver on the back. I have another 20 points to spend I think. My hammer is rated at 63 I think, with Velum shards proc, and a Vampiric hilt. My Shield is Mastercraft and imbued. All my skills are adept 1 or better. <span style="color: #ffcc00">There's your problem.  Even just getting the bulk of your skills to Adept III will dramatically increase your combat performance.</span> I am starting to think my ACT program is not set correctly.  I only loaded it in last weekend, ran the wizard, and hit control V for the results.  We were in a good group hammering on elves in New Tunare, and even the warlock and assasin were only in the 250's.  Same as me. Total seems to be correct, 20K Hits on the guards.    Battles lasting about 20 to 30 seconds. Mabey I am not understanding all this.  If a person was really hitting for 2K.. they would kill a 70 ^^^ heroic in 15 seconds.......  I have been to unrest in a full group with my fury.  I know we didn't  killed anything in 10 seconds.  If there was 4 people parsing 1.5K as people claim, then that is 6K per second. = 60K for the mobs....... <span style="color: #ffcc00">Most fights in Unrest that I've been in are usually over in 10 to 15 seconds.  Parsing 1.5k - 2k isn't really extravagant for well-outfitted dps class.  I can post shots if you like of my swashy parsing over 3k, and have seen shots of guys parsing much, much higher under the right circumstances.</span> where am I going wrong?  I seem to play well, no complaints from my tanking.  I can solo with ease.???? <span style="color: #ffcc00">If all seems to be going well and you aren't having any trouble, why worry about how much you parse?  That's only a small part of what makes a class work.  Your dps, along with other aspects that increase lethality and survivability, will increase as you reach level 70.</span> </blockquote>

[Beldin_]

Atelos@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote><cite>Bardrick wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="color: #ffcc00"> Parsing 1.5k - 2k isn't really extravagant for well-outfitted dps class.  I can post shots if you like of my swashy parsing over 3k, and have seen shots of guys parsing much, much higher under the right circumstances.</span> </blockquote> </blockquote><p>Please post that .. however only if it is ZONEWIDE EXT-dps .. nobody is interested in parses where you one-shooted something and then did 10k dps in that particular fight <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>In all group-instance runs i've done and parsed, i seldom saw anybody doing more then 1k ext-dps zonewide. Yeah in a Nest-Run where a wizzy hasn't much to care about aggro they can do 1,5+ dps .. but in the end thats still only 1k EXT. </p>

[Hamervelder]

Shalla@Valor wrote: <blockquote>Atelos@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote><cite>Bardrick wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="color: #ffcc00"> Parsing 1.5k - 2k isn't really extravagant for well-outfitted dps class.  I can post shots if you like of my swashy parsing over 3k, and have seen shots of guys parsing much, much higher under the right circumstances.</span> </blockquote> </blockquote><p>Please post that .. however only if it is ZONEWIDE EXT-dps .. nobody is interested in parses where you one-shooted something and then did 10k dps in that particular fight <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>In all group-instance runs i've done and parsed, i seldom saw anybody doing more then 1k ext-dps zonewide. Yeah in a Nest-Run where a wizzy hasn't much to care about aggro they can do 1,5+ dps .. but in the end thats still only 1k EXT. </p></blockquote> lol  Nono, not zonewide dps.  Just an example that it can be done, on short, burst fights that last maybe 10-15 seconds.  I think the best I've parsed zone wide was about 1.7k, in Den.

[AziBam]

4,4,8 INT, STA, STR is a viable dps build.  Honestly, 4,4,8 in just about any combination of our lines is good for dps as long as INT is one of the 3.  Going to the bottom of STA (with 8 in melee) gets you the melee crits plus a nice dose of health and survivability.  (Hrm..is that a word?..oh well it is now.)  I'm currently 4,4,8 in INT, STA, AGI.  Nice boost to AE dps there with the AGI barrage.  As others have said, a guard can actually do decent dps when the spec right.  As a rule, we dps higher and I can't say I've ever seen a guard top a zonewide (where I have seen SKs including myself top instance zones..not raids) but the good players know how to work their class.  Of what you have noted so far, if you are in a dps role use a good two hander and do everything you can to upgrade your spells.  Going from A1 to A3/M will make a big difference for you.  Edit..forgot to mention.  I had to reinstall ACT recently as my old version went haywire.  I noted that my parses were coming up odd until I made the following change:  General Options tab>>>End Combat the Following Ways>>>I had to check<i> </i>the<i> You gain bonus experience for defeating the encounter!</i> box.  Seems to give the numbers just fine now.  Might be worth a peek in  your settings.

[Coica]

keep in mind, that parsing can be used for different reasons. most use it to tweak the toon, but some use it just for bragging rights.  like someone said earlier, its not the be-all,end-all to be top parser. I am happy  just being able to keep agro in a group and keep it alive, which doesnt mean I need to out-parse everyone.  but thats just my opinion.

[cptnapa]

<p>The fights I can back up:</p><p>1975 ZoneWide Raid, Courts of AlAfaz</p><p>1202 ZoneWide Raid, Lycium of Abhorrence</p><p>1000 ZoneWide, Group, Castle Mistmoore, in a real bad group where I didnt have to-hit mods, so was at only 80% to-hit overall, 50% to-hit autoattack.</p><p> Thats a refence dmg from a mediocre raiding SK, tell me if you need more infoz <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Long namer fight: Doomwright in Labs, 2300 ExTDPS, great fight, memorable.</p><p>/Shadarr</p>

[Bardrick]

After these last few comments, I think you all have help me make up my mind.  I am going to ignore the parser.  I seem to play well, I have a nice list of online friends I can group with and people give me tells for tanking.  I seem to be doing fine.  I just wanted to try and be the best I can.  Parsing does not tell me that. I went back to my tapping template.  Hammer, armor, spells,  even my earing has a life tap. and now I am 67, Inny cloak taps.  According to my parser *shrug* I am healing myself for about 5-6K a fight, creating 5-6K agro from what I see, plus taunts etc.  My DPS has dropped even more, but I lock agro better, have better survivability, and I feel better about my groups..  So for ACT, might just uninstall it.  The only good way to test it is solo, and that does not even come close to what happens in a group. Namtub,  67 SK. Wicked Brew

[Norrsken]

<cite>Bardrick wrote:</cite><blockquote>After these last few comments, I think you all have help me make up my mind.  I am going to ignore the parser.  I seem to play well, I have a nice list of online friends I can group with and people give me tells for tanking.  I seem to be doing fine.  I just wanted to try and be the best I can.  Parsing does not tell me that. I went back to my tapping template.  Hammer, armor, spells,  even my earing has a life tap. and now I am 67, Inny cloak taps.  According to my parser *shrug* I am healing myself for about 5-6K a fight, creating 5-6K agro from what I see, plus taunts etc.  My DPS has dropped even more, but I lock agro better, have better survivability, and I feel better about my groups..  So for ACT, might just uninstall it.  The only good way to test it is solo, and that does not even come close to what happens in a group. Namtub,  67 SK. Wicked Brew </blockquote>Nah, keep it around. ACT is always good for spotting people on AF just leeching away exp. And yeah, that is the exact deal. A parser cant really tell you if you do a good job of tanking or not, but your groupmates sure as hell can. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> If what you want to do is tank, dont bother with dps parses.

[Pitt Hammerfi]

<p>Hey don't laugh, i've been outparsed by a Inquisitor with 1600 dps</p><p>Inq, Guard, Templar, Coercer, Illusionist, have all outparsed me on occasions</p><p>Of course it all depends on group makeup</p>

[Dead Knight]

<cite>Bardrick wrote:</cite><blockquote>After these last few comments, I think you all have help me make up my mind.  I am going to ignore the parser.  I seem to play well, I have a nice list of online friends I can group with and people give me tells for tanking.  I seem to be doing fine.  I just wanted to try and be the best I can.  Parsing does not tell me that. I went back to my tapping template.  Hammer, armor, spells,  even my earing has a life tap. and now I am 67, Inny cloak taps.  According to my parser *shrug* I am healing myself for about 5-6K a fight, creating 5-6K agro from what I see, plus taunts etc.  My DPS has dropped even more, but I lock agro better, have better survivability, and I feel better about my groups..  So for ACT, might just uninstall it.  The only good way to test it is solo, and that does not even come close to what happens in a group. Namtub,  67 SK. Wicked Brew </blockquote>ACT will give you more information about your class than anything else, if you uninstall it you will only be gimping yourself.

[Bardrick]

Dead Knight wrote: <blockquote><cite>Bardrick wrote:</cite><blockquote>After these last few comments, I think you all have help me make up my mind.  I am going to ignore the parser.  I seem to play well, I have a nice list of online friends I can group with and people give me tells for tanking.  I seem to be doing fine.  I just wanted to try and be the best I can.  Parsing does not tell me that. I went back to my tapping template.  Hammer, armor, spells,  even my earing has a life tap. and now I am 67, Inny cloak taps.  According to my parser *shrug* I am healing myself for about 5-6K a fight, creating 5-6K agro from what I see, plus taunts etc.  My DPS has dropped even more, but I lock agro better, have better survivability, and I feel better about my groups..  So for ACT, might just uninstall it.  The only good way to test it is solo, and that does not even come close to what happens in a group. Namtub,  67 SK. Wicked Brew </blockquote>ACT will give you more information about your class than anything else, if you uninstall it you will only be gimping yourself. </blockquote> How so?  Please explain.

[DMIstar]

<cite>Pitt Hammerfist wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Hey don't laugh, i've been outparsed by a Inquisitor with 1600 dps</p><p>Inq, Guard, Templar, Coercer, Illusionist, have all outparsed me on occasions</p><p>Of course it all depends on group makeup</p></blockquote>Ok ill laught at the templar thing ;P But seriously Ive seen amazing numbers on an offensive Inquisitor just in Devout crafted gear and the such..... I would hate to see one truly decked out... which i think i will see soon. But also have to keep in mind thier abilitie s are not resisted much.. and tested this out.  As for the guardian, I dont see where a fully offensive specced SK vs a fully offensive speced guard that the sk would come up on top. The agi ability is just way to strong. and realy only one stat they need to raise for DPS and thats STR.. Where im riding on 700-800 int/str normaly like 763str, 786int on raids.

[Beldin_]

<cite>Bloodravenger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>As for the guardian, I dont see where a fully offensive specced SK vs a fully offensive speced guard that the sk would come up on top. The agi ability is just way to strong. and realy only one stat they need to raise for DPS and thats STR.. Where im riding on 700-800 int/str normaly like 763str, 786int on raids.</blockquote><p>Btw.: This thread is NOT about raids .. and  my STR is something like 320 now after the nerf of our buff <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </p>

[Dead Knight]

<cite>Bardrick wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dead Knight wrote: <blockquote><cite>Bardrick wrote:</cite><blockquote>After these last few comments, I think you all have help me make up my mind.  I am going to ignore the parser.  I seem to play well, I have a nice list of online friends I can group with and people give me tells for tanking.  I seem to be doing fine.  I just wanted to try and be the best I can.  Parsing does not tell me that. I went back to my tapping template.  Hammer, armor, spells,  even my earing has a life tap. and now I am 67, Inny cloak taps.  According to my parser *shrug* I am healing myself for about 5-6K a fight, creating 5-6K agro from what I see, plus taunts etc.  My DPS has dropped even more, but I lock agro better, have better survivability, and I feel better about my groups..  So for ACT, might just uninstall it.  The only good way to test it is solo, and that does not even come close to what happens in a group. Namtub,  67 SK. Wicked Brew </blockquote>ACT will give you more information about your class than anything else, if you uninstall it you will only be gimping yourself. </blockquote> How so?  Please explain. </blockquote>ACT can give you an exact breakdown of where all your incoming damage and outgoing damage is coming from in detail. You can use it to figure out what does the most damage, and what doesn't, help to make a solid casting order for DPS and also figure out what happens sometimes on raids when you just spike red and die for no reason, or randomly get power tapped. Uninstalling it would be a big mistake.

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<p>It's useful for a lot of things (solo, group or raid)...testing out what diff AA/gear setups do for you.....showing why you do better/worse against certain mobs and letting you re-arrange resists/ward potions/Cure potion for the rematches etc.. etc.. etc..</p><p>Very useful tool. You don't have to run it all the time either, just when you're curious about some things.</p>

[DMIstar]

<cite>Shalla@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bloodravenger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>As for the guardian, I dont see where a fully offensive specced SK vs a fully offensive speced guard that the sk would come up on top. The agi ability is just way to strong. and realy only one stat they need to raise for DPS and thats STR.. Where im riding on 700-800 int/str normaly like 763str, 786int on raids.</blockquote><p>Btw.: This thread is NOT about raids .. and  my STR is something like 320 now after the nerf of our buff <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </p></blockquote>Same goes for class vs class.. Theres realy no sense compareing two classes in a typical group setup, since alot of priest/caster buffs are single target.. aka Agitate is a great buff... so if the war is given those buffs, You should not be out dpsing him period.