Bridge the gap between crafted and non-crafted weapons and armor, please.

[Raahl]

<p>This is an idea that may have been tossed around before but I thought I'd toss this out as a possible idea for the developers to consider.</p><p>The current crafting and loot  system is way unbalanced, especially for weapons and armor.  </p><ul><li>Common crafted items cannot compete with items dropped from mobs, as they probably should.  </li><li>Treasured crafted items are generally better than the common loot drops, but are greatly inferior to the treasured items dropped from mobs.</li><li>Legendary items dropped from mobs are better than anything that can be crafted currently.</li><li>Fabled items dropped from mobs are even better than legendary.</li></ul><p>Crafted items have no way to compete with legendary or fabled items that drop from mobs.  My solution:</p><ul><li>Create new legendary and fabled resources that only are available though exquisite chests.  These could be used for the new legendary and fabled recipies.</li><li>Create legendary and fabled recipies that can drop from exquisite chests.  These recipies would make use of resources dropped from chests and would only contain one item in the recipe.</li><li>Create new fabled recipies that take the current fabled armor drops and allow armorsmiths to create fabled armor that is better than what the Solusek's Eye giant can make.</li></ul><p>The legendary recipies and resources could drop from chests that are not exquisite.</p><p>These are just a suggestion to give a reason for the Weaponsmiths and Armorsmiths to level up or for new players to decide to become them.  </p><p>I only hope that someone at Sony see's this thread.</p>

[Armawk]

<cite>Raahl wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li>Common crafted items cannot compete with items dropped from mobs, as they probably should.  </li><li>Treasured crafted items are generally better than the common loot drops, but are greatly inferior to the treasured items dropped from mobs.</li></ul></blockquote><p> I assume you mean mastercrafted when you say "treasured crafted"</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=377495" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Why is MC gear better than legendary and fabled gear?</a></p><p>Posted today shows that some people think the very opposite is true. Its manifestly NOT true that Mastercrafted gear is not useful or comparable to treasured gear of similiar level.. its GREATLY superior to most of that, and even better than a lot of legendary of the same level.</p>

[Bloodfa]

<p><stands and claps at the rebuttal></p><p>MasterCrafted beats treasured from the same tier about 95% of the time, with the exception being those items that come with some form of innate regeneration.  Anybody who seriously says otherwise needs to lay off the crack pipe.  If I can't make it, I buy it.  Until I find a piece of Legendary to replace it.  Now if you're talking about the uber-mundane carbonite or iron type of equipment being bottom-rung, well, it's supposed to be.  It costs how much to make?  Fuel and a couple of silver for the components?</p><p>I've got a Weaponsmith, and while I'd love to get recipes to create Legendary and Fabled gear (besides the adornment recipes that are already readily available to everybody that crafts), doing so would diminish the value of those items and just give farmers something else to camp.  <img src="/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Waitaminute....... farmers drop tokens in PvP ...... maybe that's a good thing. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  (just kidding)</p>

[Armawk]

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p><stands and claps at the rebuttal></p><p>MasterCrafted beats treasured from the same tier about 95% of the time, with the exception being those items that come with some form of innate regeneration.  Anybody who seriously says otherwise needs to lay off the crack pipe.  If I can't make it, I buy it.  Until I find a piece of Legendary to replace it.  Now if you're talking about the uber-mundane carbonite or iron type of equipment being bottom-rung, well, it's supposed to be.  It costs how much to make?  Fuel and a couple of silver for the components?</p></blockquote><p> Well if you harvest as most do it costs the fuel only, and thats what, a silver or two? and tkae less than a minute in most cases to make? and Ive noticed that should I put stuff up for sale for maybe 5-10 times the fuel cost someone usually buys it, because its bargain basement cheap gear.</p>

[Raahl]

<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Raahl wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li>Common crafted items cannot compete with items dropped from mobs, as they probably should.  </li><li>Treasured crafted items are generally better than the common loot drops, but are greatly inferior to the treasured items dropped from mobs.</li></ul></blockquote><p> I assume you mean mastercrafted when you say "treasured crafted"</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=377495" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Why is MC gear better than legendary and fabled gear?</a></p><p>Posted today shows that some people think the very opposite is true. Its manifestly NOT true that Mastercrafted gear is not useful or comparable to treasured gear of similiar level.. its GREATLY superior to most of that, and even better than a lot of legendary of the same level.</p></blockquote><p>Yes I meant mastercrafted.   If MC is better than legendary or even fabled, why is the majority of players not using MC?  All my legendary and fabled items are way better than any of my MC gear was.</p><p>Am I missing some crazy MC items?  When I think of MC I think of Xegonite armor and weapons.  Which are inferior to what I'm in now (Lab/Lyceum Fabled and Class armor).</p><p>Hmm.</p>

[Calthine]

Mastercrafted falls between Treasured and Legendary on the officialish gear tiers.

[Raahl]

<p>Anyway my main focus was to offer a legendary/fabled alternative for crafters, which there currently is not. </p>

[Calthine]

There is if you count the EoF raid drops, which are no longer Lore and should be starting to trickle down.

[rumblepants]

Mastercrafted gear is much better than 95% of the inventory out there up to a point. You'll start to see differences in T6 and especially 7 where Legendary and Fabled gear are more readily available and easier to obtain. Otherwise from T1 to then, MC will always be better quality for the most part.

[Nuhus]

<cite>Raahl wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Anyway my main focus was to offer a legendary/fabled alternative for crafters, <b>which there currently is not.</b> </p></blockquote><p>That's not completely true. Nest recipes are decent legendary same premise, theres the DFC armor. But I haven't seen the stats on it, and when it comes to fabled theres the EH recipes/components that drop as well.</p>

[Jesdyr]

Nolus@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote><cite>Raahl wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Anyway my main focus was to offer a legendary/fabled alternative for crafters, <b>which there currently is not.</b> </p></blockquote><p>That's not completely true. Nest recipes are decent legendary same premise, theres the DFC armor. But I haven't seen the stats on it, and when it comes to fabled theres the EH recipes/components that drop as well.</p></blockquote> From what I have seen/heard .. the DFC armour is amazing for it's level.

[rumblepants]

Jesdyr@Unrest wrote: <blockquote>Nolus@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote><cite>Raahl wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Anyway my main focus was to offer a legendary/fabled alternative for crafters, <b>which there currently is not.</b> </p></blockquote><p>That's not completely true. Nest recipes are decent legendary same premise, theres the DFC armor. But I haven't seen the stats on it, and when it comes to fabled theres the EH recipes/components that drop as well.</p></blockquote> From what I have seen/heard .. the DFC armour is amazing for it's level. </blockquote>DFC is decent armor in between T4 Mastercrafted and T5 but nothing mindblowing (a complete of set of warborn plate gives +2 defense or something like that). Unfortunately due to its rarity people on my server charge premium prices for the ores (1 pp per heh) and unlike harvesting a player of that level can't really attain these themselves.

[Rast]

won't happen, don't stress over it.  Crafted is where it is meant to be and it will remain there.  It is far too easy to crafted MC gear and as long as it is, crafted will continue in its position as situational and temporary gear.  At least now, with the rare revamps, the cost should be more in line with it's value.

[Bloodfa]

<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p><stands and claps at the rebuttal></p><p>MasterCrafted beats treasured from the same tier about 95% of the time, with the exception being those items that come with some form of innate regeneration.  Anybody who seriously says otherwise needs to lay off the crack pipe.  If I can't make it, I buy it.  Until I find a piece of Legendary to replace it.  Now if you're talking about the uber-mundane carbonite or iron type of equipment being bottom-rung, well, it's supposed to be.  It costs how much to make?  Fuel and a couple of silver for the components?</p></blockquote><p> Well if you harvest as most do it costs the fuel only, and thats what, a silver or two? and tkae less than a minute in most cases to make? and Ive noticed that should I put stuff up for sale for maybe 5-10 times the fuel cost someone usually buys it, because its bargain basement cheap gear.</p></blockquote>I farm like a 'bot.  Better, actually.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   But if I need a couple of mats I'll just buy 'em, no big deal.  Handcrafted stuff just isn't worth putting on the market on a PvP server for me (bargain basement cheap gear doesn't move too well for me there, go figure), as I'd rather just throw all my extra resources and whatever MC'ed gear my toons make on the broker instead.  I'm not as hungry for coin as I used to be, though, and my bank account shows it. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Armawk]

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>I farm like a 'bot.  Better, actually.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   But if I need a couple of mats I'll just buy 'em, no big deal.  Handcrafted stuff just isn't worth putting on the market on a PvP server for me (bargain basement cheap gear doesn't move too well for me there, go figure), as I'd rather just throw all my extra resources and whatever MC'ed gear my toons make on the broker instead.  I'm not as hungry for coin as I used to be, though, and my bank account shows it. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote> Yeah I can agree with all that, though in the first few days of a new toon a handful of silver from selling on some of the iron stuff (for example) I made levelling up can be useful.

[Looker1010]

<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p><stands and claps at the rebuttal></p><p>MasterCrafted beats treasured from the same tier about 95% of the time, with the exception being those items that come with some form of innate regeneration.  Anybody who seriously says otherwise needs to lay off the crack pipe.  If I can't make it, I buy it.  Until I find a piece of Legendary to replace it.  Now if you're talking about the uber-mundane carbonite or iron type of equipment being bottom-rung, well, it's supposed to be.  It costs how much to make?  Fuel and a couple of silver for the components?</p></blockquote><p> Well if you harvest as most do it costs the fuel only, and thats what, a silver or two? and tkae less than a minute in most cases to make? and Ive noticed that should I put stuff up for sale for maybe 5-10 times the fuel cost someone usually buys it, because its bargain basement cheap gear.</p></blockquote>Umm T7 regular items require 10 fuel, at 3.4s each, for a total of 3.4 GOLD per item. Mastercrafted and imbued T7 items often require 20 fuel. I'd love to know where you get that couple of silver fuel....

[Bloodfa]

<cite>Looker1010 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p><stands and claps at the rebuttal></p><p>MasterCrafted beats treasured from the same tier about 95% of the time, with the exception being those items that come with some form of innate regeneration.  Anybody who seriously says otherwise needs to lay off the crack pipe.  If I can't make it, I buy it.  Until I find a piece of Legendary to replace it.  Now if you're talking about the uber-mundane carbonite or iron type of equipment being bottom-rung, well, it's supposed to be.  It costs how much to make?  Fuel and a couple of silver for the components?</p></blockquote><p> Well if you harvest as most do it costs the fuel only, and thats what, a silver or two? and tkae less than a minute in most cases to make? and Ive noticed that should I put stuff up for sale for maybe 5-10 times the fuel cost someone usually buys it, because its bargain basement cheap gear.</p></blockquote>Umm T7 regular items require 10 fuel, at 3.4s each, for a total of 3.4 GOLD per item. Mastercrafted and imbued T7 items often require 20 fuel. I'd love to know where you get that couple of silver fuel.... </blockquote>The "couple of silver" is relative to the tier, not fixed, as it's only a few copper for T1 gear.  See what I mean?

[Armawk]

<cite>Looker1010 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p><stands and claps at the rebuttal></p><p>MasterCrafted beats treasured from the same tier about 95% of the time, with the exception being those items that come with some form of innate regeneration.  Anybody who seriously says otherwise needs to lay off the crack pipe.  If I can't make it, I buy it.  Until I find a piece of Legendary to replace it.  Now if you're talking about the uber-mundane carbonite or iron type of equipment being bottom-rung, well, it's supposed to be.  It costs how much to make?  Fuel and a couple of silver for the components?</p></blockquote><p> Well if you harvest as most do it costs the fuel only, and thats what, a silver or two? and tkae less than a minute in most cases to make? and Ive noticed that should I put stuff up for sale for maybe 5-10 times the fuel cost someone usually buys it, because its bargain basement cheap gear.</p></blockquote>Umm T7 regular items require 10 fuel, at 3.4s each, for a total of 3.4 GOLD per item. Mastercrafted and imbued T7 items often require 20 fuel. I'd love to know where you get that couple of silver fuel.... </blockquote><p>Well indeed, the higher you go the more it scales up.. and indeed the less likely you are to sell any handcraft at any price! That said, 5 gold is, to a decent T7 player, worth no more than a handful of copper is at the beginning.</p><p>But yes, in Tier 7 it would be VERY odd to sell any handcrafts.</p><p>At Tier 2 though for example, someone just paid me 40 silver for an iron longsword (on nagafen no less). I hope its just a fill in till level 12! In fact that new character Im working on there sold about 20 tier 2 handcrafted items for an average of 30 silver in his first 2 days of existence. not a huge amount to  be sure, but enough to make a difference to the comfort zone at the beginning. A lot better than selling them back for fuel I think!</p><p>(I in fact suspect a lot of people on pvp use handcrafts to try not to be totally useless until they can get mastercrafts etc together) </p>

[Meirril]

<p>While I would love to see a return of crafted fabled gear, I'd want the products limited to the people that "earned" them. The major benifit of crafting said equipment would be tailoring it to the raider's needs. Lets face it, trying to find items to fill those hard to locate slots is nearly impossible. Some crafted fabled gear would ease this burden. The commission system allows for us to craft items with technically no need to ever possess key components. </p><p> What I do not want to see is crafters gaining the ability to make tradeable fabled gear. I think fabled is something you earn, not buy. If you allow tradeable crafted fabled gear you'll have 24/7 farming going on and the crafted fabled will become the new default armor (i.e. don't bother with anything less) just like mastercrafted armor is considered now. </p><p>I will point out to the success of crafted armor. The best crafted armor is the default armor for most players. In the end game, you wouldn't be caught dead in anything less. Your entire adventuring life is spent in the persuit of getting something better. And a general failure in itemization can be seen in the huge number of 70 players who are still using a few peices of crafter jewelry. </p><p>So to sum up, being able to craft some fabled gear would be great. As long as the primary component was no-trade and the crafting is done through commission. (Occasionally the crafter might get that item returned due to a fluke reaction. Seems rather appropriate to be honest. A one in 5000 chance to get a fabled item for yourself doesn't seem unreasonable at all.)</p>

[baddog]

after three years of continual  class balancing , reitemizations , proc adjustments , poison nurfs ,  combat revamps , aoe / haste / mit / & skill caps , agro mods , and mob buffing the last thing we need is another excuse for the rest of the player base to whine about . they want to harvest 10 rares an hour , and hail a 1g per tier NPC crafting bot , already

[Raahl]

<p>Wow some of you are taking this in a really wrong direction.  Sigh.</p><p>I haven't checked out the newer recipies, hopefully one may cross my path.</p><p>I do not want these to be common, they should be as rare as fabled is now, possibly even more.  You have a rare drop in the recipe (for one item type) and a rare drop in the component.  I have no problems if it is no-trade.  The fabled drops now are pretty much no-trade.</p><p>I will admit I am mostly talking about T7, some of the lower tiers, mastercrafted is a very viable option.  Really how much legendary/fabled T3-T5 stuff is out there?  I don't remember seeing much.</p>

[Besual]

<cite>Raahl wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I will admit I am mostly talking about T7, some of the lower tiers, mastercrafted is a very viable option.  Really how much legendary/fabled T3-T5 stuff is out there?  I don't remember seeing much.</p></blockquote> In FG / SH legendary / fabled items drop like candies. Same goes for Nek1, RE, DFC. Not sure about CT. But I guess after the revamp a good chunk of legendary drops there too. T3-T5 has many heritage items that are quite good too (PTG, SSoY, SBS, SBD...).

[Terron]

<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>But yes, in Tier 7 it would be VERY odd to sell any handcrafts.</p></blockquote>No it isn't. My jeweler commonly sells T7 hand crafted stuff. A complete set of resistance jewelry is 15 items. Each handcrafted item gives about +660 to 2 resistances. The mastercrafted items give about +770 to 2 resistances and some other bonuses. People who want a set of resistance gear to start raiding will generally settle for a handcrafted set which is generally good enough to get the job done, rather than spending 10p on all the moonstones needed for a fulll mastercrafted set.

[Terron]

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>While I would love to see a return of crafted fabled gear, I'd want the products limited to the people that "earned" them. The major benifit of crafting said equipment would be tailoring it to the raider's needs. Lets face it, trying to find items to fill those hard to locate slots is nearly impossible. Some crafted fabled gear would ease this burden. The commission system allows for us to craft items with technically no need to ever possess key components. </p> <p><span style="color: #ff9900">I'd settle for crafted legendary, or even mastercrafted with stats comparable to legendary.</span> </p> <p> What I do not want to see is crafters gaining the ability to make tradeable fabled gear. I think fabled is something you earn, not buy. If you allow tradeable crafted fabled gear you'll have 24/7 farming going on and the crafted fabled will become the new default armor (i.e. don't bother with anything less) just like mastercrafted armor is considered now. </p> <p><span style="color: #ff9900">Only if it is significantly better than mastercrafted. Prior to LU24 I had the recipe to make some fabled jewelry but never got the materials to do so. People did not farm it because it was not that much better than the best crafted (which was legendary then) to be worth the effort. Crafted tradable stuff depending on raid drops could be done, but would have to be only around legendary quality. </span> </p> <p>I will point out to the success of crafted armor. The best crafted armor is the default armor for most players. In the end game, you wouldn't be caught dead in anything less. Your entire adventuring life is spent in the persuit of getting something better. And a general failure in itemization can be seen in the huge number of 70 players who are still using a few peices of crafter jewelry. </p> <p><span style="color: #ff9900">As a T7 jeweler I consider it a success of the itemization scheme, not a failure. For some slots the number of items needed was multiplied by 4, making it harder to replace all of them with quested items, keeping people looking for longer, and making handcrafted viable. It is also good that there is a niche for which jewelers make items that some people consider the best in the game (imbued strength rings for melee DPSers). Every crafting class should have such a niche. </span> </p> <p>So to sum up, being able to craft some fabled gear would be great. As long as the primary component was no-trade and the crafting is done through commission. (Occasionally the crafter might get that item returned due to a fluke reaction. Seems rather appropriate to be honest. A one in 5000 chance to get a fabled item for yourself doesn't seem unreasonable at all.) </p> <p><span style="color: #ff9900">Of course there is effectively already crafted fabled and legendary no-trade stuff in the game, but only NPCs are allowed to make it (relic armour and guild writ raid armour).</span> </p> </blockquote>

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>DFC armour is priced so high that buying a full set would be totally crazy when you can buy 7 ebon clusters and get some armour made for level 42 and make do till then. Once you get Ebon you dont need any other armour till you get cobalt, and then you dont need any other armour till you get to tier 7 and find that shiny xegonite is made from belly button fluff and small particles of air you run into take off half your health.</p>

[baddog]

<cite>Terron wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="color: #ff9900">Of course there is effectively already crafted fabled and legendary no-trade stuff in the game, but only NPCs are allowed to make it (relic armour and guild writ raid armour).</span> </blockquote> </blockquote>  lolz , forgot about that , we have NPC crafting bots in the game already

[Liyle]

There was a long discussion about why crafted stuff isn't as good as "adventured" not too long ago. Most people seem content to have their stuff be vapor as long as it's easy to produce. Who am I to argue? <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=373462" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Why Our Products Are Junk</a>

[Ookami-san]

<p>MC is very nice and very comparable to dropped gear (non fabled) until T7.  Once you hit T7, crafted gear is worthless and legendary is easy to find and come by.</p><p>They killed armor and weaponsmiths in T7.  There is really not any reason to ever use MC weapons or armor at this point, since you can easily get better through a few instances... OOB, CoV, etc.... or venturing into Unrest if you're 70.  There's also Kaladim, etc.</p><p>All other crafters didn't get hit nearly as hard.  Tailors can still sell bags and cloaks - although the deity cloaks are easy to get in T7.  Jewelers still get hit up for full sets of resist gear and my swashy still uses his imbued acrylia str / agl rings.  Provisioners clean up, period.  Alchemists can sell potions, poisons, etc.... which are in more demand now.  Carpenters have no real competition from drops for either repair kits or house items.  Woodworkers makes the best arrows, throwing ammunition & totems.  Etc.</p><p>Only armorsmiths and weaponsmiths were made obsolete.</p>

[Firecracker]

I would like to see something done with old fable recipe items that still drop off th epic mobs and such a waste to get as it is now for there is nothing to make with them. I am not sure if some knew this but there is several out there for tier 3 to 5. I am not sure if there was lower tiers but would love to see something be made with them again for all the tiers pretty please?