What it means to be a 'good' tank

[gibby290]

<p>Hello all.  I have played EQ2 for a couple of years now and I am making my first foray into the 'main tank' realm.  We have a group of four characters who play together all the time.  I am the Guardian, a Fury, Warlock, and Necromancer.</p><p>I am curious what it means to you to be a good tank.  Do you auto attack, do you use combat abilities, which ones?  What AA's lend the best to main tanking?  How often do you taunt, do you do HO's? </p><p> I am looking for MT feedback, mostly for our small, humble group of adventurers, but also for Raids.  Any feedback is appreciated.</p><p> Thanks from a fellow plate wearer!</p>

[Rockroi]

<p>Raiding and grouping are different animals with different goals.  </p><p>You seem more interested in grouping and I think its very important to remember a few tenants of MT'ing in a group.  </p><p>In a group, because there is such a constant threat of adds, positioning is the most important thing a MT can do to keep a group paced well and avoid wipes (wiping is the ultimate momentum killer).  With re-pops and other groups milling about, you have to get your enemy in a place where you will kill it and it will not get friends to kill you.  I honestly believe that if you take nothing else from this thread, you take to heart that in a group, positioning is a job most tanks don't do well enough. </p><p>After that, you always have to recognize what your group can do.  Is it high DPS? Do you have an excess of healers?  </p><p>If you are high on the DPS, your taunts and heavy attacks have to be used early and often.  Get the best taunts possible, and pay close attention to Rescue and Reinforcements.  I strong encourage you also to buy your heavy attacks (Flay, Obliterate, Retaliatory Strike) at least at AIII.  Every point of damage is a point of hate.  Use these big attacks FAST so you jump the agro list and keep agro solid on you.  Rangers and Warlocks can rip agro fast.  And DPS classes always assume it's the tank's fault when they die (silly Rangers).  </p><p>Staying alive is important, especially on long fights- your perma-buffs and temp buffs are important to take the stress off the healers.  Make sure you keep an eye on your healers' power to know when to give them a hand here.  Don't assume your healers can keep you alive no matter what.  </p><p>Also in grouping, pace is important and the MT sets that.  Make sure you stay consistent, get some sort of call (macro) that informs people when you are pulling.  Learn what ALL your abilities do, not just the taunts and buffs.  Sentry Watch is probably the most important pre-pull spell you have; Moderate is critical (silly Rangers); your Templar will love you for Sentry.  </p><p>Most of all, in groups, its importnat to have an objective so that you, as the MT (and really, the one calling the shots), know where to go and how to get there.  If your objective is just killing for XP or slaying Young Dragon for a Heritage Quest, make sure you know how to get there.  And that you communicate it with everyone else.</p><p>Raiding involves knowing what each mob is about, what resists you need and what gear helps you the most.  Raiding also involves a commitment of time, resources, and effort that not everyone enjoys.  I earnestly suggest that you get as much money as possible and buy the higher-end Guardian powers at either AIII or M1- All taunts, Flay, Command, Wall of Force, Obliterate, Goading Assault, etc.  </p><p>However, in a raid, you have to be in constant communication with everyone- what are you pulling, where will people be, what will go off first, etc.  You have to make sure 23 other people know their roll.  You have to also keep agro, keep it tight, and make adjustments as permitted.  If you cannot keep agro during a raid, things will fall apart fast.  The MT is the only person on the whole raid who can single-handedly ruin it.  You have to communicate with your healers- getting ranges set up, LoS, positioning, etc.  Make sure you don't have two Templars in the same group (their abilities do not stack).  </p><p>Have excellent communication with your Raid Leader and give and take constant feedback.  If you are the Raid Leader, you have to coordinate everything, so be prepared to do a lot of explaining.  As the MT, don't be afraid of criticism- you have 2 eyes; the raid has 46 others: they may see something you don't.  Don't EVER blame your healers.  EVER!  </p><p>Raids are a marathon, not a sprint.  Keep that in mind.</p><p>I hope this helps.  </p>

[Aristigon]

Being a good MT is knowing what everyone is capable of, being able to read player skill level and play to their strengths and weaknesses. Know zones, know your own strengths and weaknesses and never be afriad to take the blame even if it isn't your fault./

[Omegaphobia]

<cite>gibby290 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Hello all.  I have played EQ2 for a couple of years now and I am making my first foray into the 'main tank' realm.  We have a group of four characters who play together all the time.  I am the Guardian, a Fury, Warlock, and Necromancer.</p><p>I am curious what it means to you to be a good tank.  Do you auto attack, do you use combat abilities, which ones?  What AA's lend the best to main tanking?  How often do you taunt, do you do HO's? </p><p> I am looking for MT feedback, mostly for our small, humble group of adventurers, but also for Raids.  Any feedback is appreciated.</p><p> Thanks from a fellow plate wearer!</p></blockquote><p>I body pull, taunt, or bow pull depending on the situations. on a typical trash mob ill do two taunts then unload all of my attacks, probably taunting two more times during the fight to be on the safe side. If the dps is crazy which it sounds like it will with your group, i would say use your two basic taunts whenever they are up when you are unsure.</p><p> I like to throw in all my attacks because its just extra dps and dps = agro too (especially with the threat increase talent in the STR line.</p><p>On group pulls ill usually body pull or bow pull if its safe then encounter taunt, then executioners wrath into a Bury (aoe attack at my lvl, Assault at lower lvls). Then if its a named with adds ill taunt twice then tab to each other target hitting it with a few attacks and a taunt when its back up. If theres no named ill just hit the first one once or twice, tab to a new one and taunt, tab to a new and and use another taunt, hit the next one a few times etc.. If the group is assisting on one mob then you really dont need to do any switching.</p><p>As far as my heroic oportunity i dont usually start one if im tanking and let the melee do their thing with theirs. Often im too busy managing the mobs to participate in the heroic oportunities but will do so when asked to help out.</p><p>Little extras that people like: as a mob is coming in run around it and turn its back to the group, just a convenience for dps. When you pull something macro a message like "Inc %T" with what ever u generally pull with so the group gets text confirmation that your pulling. </p>

[Omegaphobia]

On AAs, i havent explored them too much, but i like the STR line for the extra crit and threat, and the AGI line for the AoE attacks and the 12 second "parry everything" ability at the end. Later on for raids or groups when you have the right classes, consider dropping STR. This is because 1, you should be at the threat cap and wont need the threat talent, and 2, if you dont solo you dont really need all the crit or the damage (and threat) bonuses of the end of the line talent.

[Ferunnia]

I'll try to give a rundown on what I'd tell any new tank, along with some advice gleaned from my own experiences as a tank. Here's my first advice. Don't get overly logical about being a tank, or it'll quickly become a grind you'll want to escape from. Just enjoy the class for what it is, without picking it apart so much it's like looking at 1s and 0s. I don't mean that you shouldn't care about what is best for your class, but don't sit there going it x is so and y affects x in such way then should I upgrade z because y is indirectly affected by the proc from the z buff, until you are all thought and no passion. Now, on to the actual playing/character advice. (Ignore what I said before if you're the kind of person who naturally does what I described. I'm just warning you against doing it if you aren't....I got that way on Elhonna (my drood, in my siggy) and now barely care to play her.) Always keep your reactive taunt upgraded. I can't stress this enough, especially with the two gods of aoe in your group. A fury can probably peel you in aoe just as quickly as a warlock at high levels, especially if they're dps specced with adept 3 / master 1 or 2 nukes. Use your lower aggro buff on your warlock, of course, the nec splits damage with his pet, so that is a little more manageable (until they start using lifeburn...) I'd say give the fury your avoidance buffs because if he dies...well you know where that'll get you. Also, know as much about all the abilities of the classes you be playing with. I think every class can do little stuff others barely know about, that would benefit everyone greatly if every player cared enough to look at the other player's abilities. Learn the mobs you're pulling. If they're social then learn their aggro radius and how to barely enter them to body pull easily. I always prided myself on knowing the aggro radius of the stuff im around. I constantly leave my party behind because they think I'm crazy and am gonna train, then I'm standing 100 yards from em in a circle of mobs, wondering why they didn't follow my winding weaving, spinning in circles path through the mob. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> As far as AAs, I personally have specced 4-8-8-3-1 agi and 4-4-8-8 on sta on the KoS side (though I'm prolly gonna be dropping the riposte for 4-4 int...I'm missing my haste). I don't know how to describe how much it helps to have two extra ae attacks (and I don't mind the twelve seconds of 100% parry either, for if you have solid aggro and your healer goes down....Burn the mob you !%@#$%, I'll die soon!! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )when you have a warlock and/or fury in the group. Like Rockroi said, positioning is important in your group, even if you don't have a melee dps in your group, and as I'm specced is even more important. I always position mobs as much facing away from my group as possible, and then try to make minute adjustments to make them all cluster together in the same spot. Don't waste too much time doing this though, I do it to catch all the mobs in the frontal ae I have from agi spec. Where EoF is concerned...well there are a number of paths you can choose, but for the best aggro holding, I'd say go down the slaughtering line for your extra 9% double attack if you go down stamina in the KoS line. If you don't it's not as big a deal, and I'd most likely sub in the crippling line for helping you stay alive a little better if you're only gonna pack around one healer (plus the necro's bloods, or whatever they're called in this game...long time EQOA player, necro heals will always be bloods to me). I'd at least go down the slaughtering line two spots and then veer over to pick up the enhancements to rescue and reinforcement. But again, that's preference. It also helps to keep your gear as well as your taunts and ALL of your combat arts as upgraded as possible. Aim for mastercrafted armor on each tier, try for legendary when you can. Do the heritage quests that will give you good tank items, (this is all assuming you're just starting a new tank or are relatively low). If it comes down to it, pick an adept 3 taunt over one piece of armor. But pick a good set of armor over all adept 3 CAs. And finally, I'm gonna answer your very first question as best I can. "What's it mean to be a good tank". To me this is many things. I love tanking. I freakin' love having a mob so solidly held that at any point after ten or fifteen seconds on a mob my dps can go full burn and not peel me. It makes me feel warm and fuzzy to know I tanked something so well that it never occurred to anyone in my party to worry about if we're going to die. I also like feeling like a hero when someone is half asleep or not paying attention and falls behind, and when I notice this (I constantly open and close my map when the group is on the move, I've got it set to mostly be transparent so I can see through it unless I scroll over it) I snap around, jump off of buildings or stairs, or jump into a river and emerge from the other side tossing a hammer into the face of the mob peeling it from some half dead mage or healer or scout while tossing out both my normal taunts and when I'm in range, my two melee taunts, and save their !@# yet again. I like being at the front of the party, taking what the enemy can dish out and returning it in full. I like being such a good tank that numerous people I've grouped with before get in a good mood when the party leader invites me because they know we're going to have a blast and that they don't have to worry about a lazy, mediocre, uncaring tank leading them to death over and over. I work hard at being good at my class, and I think that's true of all the classes on this game. You have to really want to do that, and enjoy it, work at it, because in the end, the passion to be better and reliable comes from how much you like what you're doing.