Spell Consolidation.

[DMIstar]

Spell Consolidation, Can it work ? or just another nerf. At the moment Spells alone Im Spamming 17...  And atleast 5 other spells on the side for utility.. this doesnt even count AA's and items ... In the end i would be happy for a Consolidation of spells to work .. 5 hot bars is not fun and do want new spells in new expansions rather just upgrades ... 2yrs from now if still here am hopeing to have changed a bit and seen that the class got more interesting.. Major concern for me is dots/spells and CAs .. Permanant buffs are easier. Dots we have: Pestilance <Duration 16secs> <Xdmg every 2s> <Cast 1.36s> <recast 54.5> <AOE> <Ability> Death Circle <Duration 24s> <xdmg every 6sec> <cast 1.82> <recast 27.3> <AOE> <xdmg> Uneding Misery <Duration 12s> <Xdmg every 4s> <Cast .45> <recast 27.3> <AOE> Putrid Coil <Duration 20secs> <Xdmg every 4s> <Cast .45s> <recast 18.2> Insidious Promis <Duration 9s> <xdmg every 3s> <cast .23> <recast 7.3> <xthreat ever 3s> Pariahs brand <Duration 9s> <xdmg every 3s> <cast .45> <recast 9.1> <xdmg> <CA> Nefarious Sacriment <Duration 30s> <pet> <cast 1.82> <recast 27.3> Direct Dmg we have: Fetid Smite <xdmg> <xdmg> <xheal> <cast .45s> <recast .45> Abominable Anger <xdmg> <cast .91s> <recast 18.2> Agony <xdmg> <xwis> <cast .45s> <recast 18.2> Drain Vitea <xdmg> <xheal> <Cast .91><recast 18.2> abominable wrath <xdmg> <snare> <cast 1.82> <recast 54.5> tap viens <xdmg> <cast 1.82> <recast 54.5> <AoE> This still leaves Kick Bash Despoil Siphon Str DM Doom judgement Sacrilage Rescue Grave blessings anyways to me up there looks like we are a scattered mess with Timers ... Some would say stuff like this should be merged: but even this needs tweaking of some sort ;/ Death Circle..... <Duration 24s> <xdmg every 6s> <Cast 1.82> <recast 27.3> <AOE> <xdmg> Uneding Misery <Duration 12s> <Xdmg every 4s> <Cast  .45>  <recast 27.3> <AOE>

[Bowser]

<p>I like having lots of abilities at my disposal and I would be upset if they combined stuff into single spells.</p>

[nihilux]

Bowser@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>I like having lots of abilities at my disposal and I would be upset if they combined stuff into single spells.</p></blockquote>I agree.

[Beldin_]

From what i heared until now, they want mainly put buffs together, and i also don't want to loose my offensive spells, but i could live with it if i would have only 1 or 2 conc-buffs.

[DMIstar]

Bleh Seriously, theres alot and there to much... The even above doesnt even account for all the other ones ... as for "Abilities at your disposal" In EQ yeah i had abilities at my disposal... Lots Here we mainly have a few .. The rest is all a specific chain cast... move away from that and it hurts DPS... Ones listed was part of that. Plus lets face it.. With this many spells to keep up with each expansion, we will get to the point where its to much time spent on upgrading rather then creating New .... Also i hate to say it.. but if its only buffs, it wouldnt even make any difference in the amount of hotbars .. ;/

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

Supposed to be aimed more at Buffs and possibly Debuffs, from what I've heard so far (but our Debuffs have secondary/primary efects attached)...and most the old spells will have upgrades, so not too sure just how many completely new spells/lines there will be. Hard to guess at which ones will actually be consolidaed or changed yet...too early.

[melaine_dvarvensplitter]

CHIMPNOODLE. wrote: <blockquote>Supposed to be aimed more at Buffs and possibly Debuffs, from what I've heard so far (but our Debuffs have secondary/primary efects attached)...and most the old spells will have upgrades, so not too sure just how many completely new spells/lines there will be. Hard to guess at which ones will actually be consolidaed or changed yet...too early.</blockquote>QFE!

[DMIstar]

Mechanics panel at Fan Fair: <i>"They are also looking at every class's spells: how their spells are designed and how the spells work together. Spells that are currently separate but are very similar will be merged into one spell. There will be no nerfs, but things like multiple group buffs and multiple debuffs may be made into one spell. You'll have more hotbar space. Right now there are classes with more abilities than they can possibly use in combat. Three hotbars by level 16 is a bit much, and this will bring current abilities a little closer to the current pacing of the game. This change will be on the Test server, and Chris welcomes suggestions posted on the forums. He emphasizes that they will be taking feedback, and things can change if it does not work as intended."</i> They Gave an Example here, I dont think it was meant for just buffs/debuffs Primary focus it seems is to find ways to clear some space on Hot bars.   Im quite sure they are up for suggestions... Cause i doubt that its already all figured out on what to combine.

[Pitt Hammerfi]

<p>It's good because it will force them to take a look at our spells and realise just how crap some of them are, hopefully they reduce timers for some of them so they can merge them. </p><p>I'm hoping for big changes personally.</p>

[MaCloud1032]

<p>If they try to consolidate our class i fell they will have a very hard time doing so.  They cant lump our debuffs in to just one button as we only have 3 of them and all do something diffret.  Almost all of our skills have some form of a proc on them.  they cant link our AoEs as one is a spell and the other is a CA.  </p><p>Other than deisease dmg our skills have very little in common where they could link them.</p><p>What skills we use when often determan how a fight will pan out.  Do we cast that taunt for a bit more agro or is healer having a hard time keeping you up.</p><p>Spell rotation is a larg part of how good you are.</p><p>Spamming buttons will not get you agro as a Sk nor will it keep you alive or pars high. </p><p>Iv seen zerkers parse 1300+ mashing keys.  And they admit it!</p><p>keep our spells as they are.  I dont need a 4th grader being able to do the same content i can do.  Rotation is everything not the spam.</p>

[ssythe]

<p>I dont think they can combine much of our stuff........</p><p>Wouldn't mind if they could combine something like siphon str with abominable anger(keep siphon recast!!) but doubt that can happen since siphon can get sta added to it</p><p>Wouldnt mind if they could combine mana sieve and insidious promise either....</p><p>death circle and despoil? pro would be eliminate one longish cast time.... con would be no range on it... kinda torn on that hehe</p>

[Coica]

Dont forget items that have clickable damage spells, L&L master hotkey, any race-specific  attacks/damage, potions to hotkey,etc.  

[Kratoswra]

<p>I think some of our spells could use some consodilation, and dont get nerf just stronger.</p><p>My ideas:</p><p>Damage shield + Self buff proc -> Rename it: Shadow of the grave</p><p>Grim coil + Mana tap -> Rename it: Devour soul (same cast time duration as coil)</p><p>Siphon str +  Despoil -> Make siphon str encouter and work same as despoil. Will make us str go sky in linked fights. But we are the AOE tank. so its ok. </p><p> What do you think?? AAs could remain the same this way too.</p>

[hellskitten]

Just a thought, if they did consolidate non-buffing spells; what would the effect be on reaver....

[Draqnor2]

I just returned to my SK after a long absence. It took me a while to remember what all my abilities do but I feel I've got a handle on it now. What I do not feel good about is during combat it feels like I'm spamming whatever abilities are up with little rhyme or reason. I do have certain 'key' abilities I try to use as soon as they are available but some of the others... that's up, click it!So what suggestions do some of the veteran SKs have in regard to this?  Do you use all of your abilities or are there some that you don't bother with? Do you have a rotation that you stick with based on what your role is (tanking, dps, soloing, etc.)? How many hotbars do you actively use? Do you guys click or primarily use the keyboard?Sorry for all the questions but I'd really like to find out what is recommended to make most use of my abilities.

[MaCloud1032]

<p>I click everything.  I also run with 4 active hotbars of spells and items i have 2 more set aside for other macros and potions and one more off on the other side that has my main buffs on it.</p><p>Do I feel as though iam mashing buttons?  In a way i do only because i know what all of the affects of my skills are and where they are.  </p><p>I love having my choice of what i cast.  I play on a pvp server and depending on what iam fighting determans what i use.  When you fight an illusionest do you know they have a spell reflect?  Pops your first 3 spells back on your self.  Go melee only and you dont have to worry about it.  Templars reactive work off some one meleeing them.  Fair enough spells only.</p><p>I feel we are the one true class that is defined by how we play.  We can tank, dps, play healer(for our selfs)  We can do all of these thing good but are not masters of them.  </p><p>One other thing How will they link spells with CA's.  The only real feasable way to do this is to make us battle mages(would be cool).  This wont happen.  You have to agree being able to cast on the run would make us a bit overpowered compaired to the other tanks.  To an extent interupts and restarts on our spells keep us in check.</p><p>I forsee this "spell consolidation" a dumbing down of the game.  It will also be a huge nerf to hybred classes(hell all classes)</p>

[DMIstar]

We are far past beyond the point of dumbing down... Yes all classes will get a dps hit with this for sure... its no lie.But as it is now, its to much. Its nothing but Spaming at this point. What made EQ challangeing was the limitation of 8 slots later going to 9... You picked and choose what you needed at the time. This game dumbed that down straight off by not limiting anything in regards to spells and CAs. The thing i dont like is simple, In EQ, each expansion had new unique spells that changed the class and made it more fun and challangeing... In this game we get pretty much just upgrades to existing spells and maybe 1 or two new ones... But for good reason... If they worked on new spells while haveing our old ones upgraded.. it would only be a matter of time before we run out of hotbars to put them in ... Even now im useing all the hotbars available. The only other real solution to this is, to stop updateing lines of spells make new ones that share the same reuse as others to force that line dead. is this a more popular route?

[Josgar]

We still don't really know what they are consolidating... or any heck we don't even know why! They could be adding in new spell lines for all we know.Here are some things that I would imagine that they would consolidate that would have very little affect on gameplay:Fun Spell Illusions: I would guess that they would change it so that you cast your illusion, and then a menu pops up asking you which one you want to use. On my conjurer, that would turn 6 spells into one without dumbing anything down.Teleports: Druids and Wizards could end up with 5 or 6 spells becoming one with a little menu to pick where to go... does not dumb anything down yet again.On my Conj. I could see them removing magi's sheilding from the level 4 spells and tacking it on to one of the group buffs. It never gets an upgrade, and it is still semi useful at higher levels.

[Beldin_]

<cite>Josgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>On my Conj. I could see them removing magi's sheilding from the level 4 spells and tacking it on to one of the group buffs. It never gets an upgrade, and it is still semi useful at higher levels.</blockquote><p>Since you talk about your Conjurer .. i played mine yesterday after a long time of inactivity and noticed that a lot of my pet-buffs i had on my hotkeys did nothing. After a while i realized that most of the buffs from the KoS Achievements were now passive abilitys and you see the added effects in green, similiar to the lifetap on coil.</p><p>I thought that was also a nice change to get rid of some hotkeys and maybe they will do similiar things with other buffs here.</p>

[Rob626]

On my both my warlock and defiler I have several debuffs on each that could be consolidated. I rarely get the time or opportunity. If they were to combine the effects of the debuffs into one casting then they would definitely get cast. Right now those debuffs get neglected because the time taken to debuff removes time from dps. If they were single castings then the payoff would seriously improve their viability and importance. Majo, Hesseal, Murgok, and Blark of Venekor