Possible fix for 32bit Vista Out of Memory Errors

[BungFoo]

First read these three articles at anandtech to get a background on the problem and it's causes: <a href="http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3034" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/sh...doc.aspx?i=3034</a> <a href="http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3044" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipset...doc.aspx?i=3044</a> <a href="http://www.anandtech.com/systems/showdoc.aspx?i=3060" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.anandtech.com/systems/sh...doc.aspx?i=3060</a> Then take a look at the Microsoft knowledge base article. <a href="http://support.microsoft.com/kb/940105" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://support.microsoft.com/kb/940105</a> In a nut shell and so simplified as to be almost wrong, 32bit operating systems can only address about 3.2 gigs of ram. The WDDM driver model introduced in Vista causes some applications (especially games) that use large amounts of memory to actually use up all of the available memory in the system. At this point applications crash with weird errors because there is no memory available for them to use. The hotfix will be available for download on the KB page on the 23rd of August according to anandtech. If you want it now you need to call MS and request it. MS also claims that 64bit version of its OS's do not display this behavior. So if you bought Vista Ultimate retail you can try installing the 64bit version rather than 32bit one. XP 64bit should be fine as well. I personally don't get this error but I hope it might help some of you out. Don't know if it will help but I hope it does. Good luck.

[Phatt]

I get the out of memory errors since I "upgraded" to Vista, and I have just installed this hotfix. I'll go jump around Qeynos Harbor and see if I crash, as that would certainly have done it before this hotfix.

[jonathanc29]

The issue does happen on 64 bit systems as well, also microsoft has the hotfix in both x86 and x64 versions

[DeadGopher]

<p>I have a Microsoft Premier Support account so I was able to download and install this patch last night.  The patch is also available to the public at <a href="http://www.hotfixshare.net/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.hotfixshare.net/</a>.</p><p>I am running Windows Vista Ultimate 32-bit (x86).  I have a 768MB Nvidia 8800GTX graphics card. </p><p>I installed the KB940105 and rebooted.</p><p>I then logged in to EQ2.  I was standing in Willow Wood.  I set my options to Extreme Quality, then zoned to Qeynos Harbor.  EQ2 usually quits with the out-of-memory error pretty quickly in this scenario.  This time I was able to run around for a minute or more before it quit, but it did quit with the same out-of-memory error even with this hotfix.</p><p>As of today,<b> the KB940105 patch has been pulled from the Microsoft Premier Support site. </b> I take that to mean it is not stable and is undergoing further revision.  I have uninstalled the patch for now.  I'll wait for a better version.</p><p> ADAM0S</p>

[Phatt]

I can confirm that this fixes my crashes in Vista Ultimate 32 bit. We need to keep this at the top of the forum!

[BungFoo]

The fine and long suffering folks in the thread <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=364955" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=364955</a> have been keeping up on this topic as well. Since it's the official thread devoted to this topic maybe my thread could be locked or appended to that thread by a moderator?

[DeadGopher]

<p>UPDATE:</p><p>The update is back on the Microsoft Premier Support site.  It's the same as it was before they pulled it, only now it is packaged for distribution (zipped).</p><p>I am running Vista 32-bit and had been experiencing this problem since I got an Nvidia 8800GTX 768MB graphics card and began trying to run in High Quality or Extreme Quality.</p><p>I was able to eliminate this problem with the following combination of software updates:</p><p>THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER </p><p>1) Install the latest Nvidia BETA ForceWare driver version 163.11 (August 2, 2007)     64-bit (x64): <a href="http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvista_x64_163.11.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvis...x64_163.11.html</a>     32-bit (x86): <a href="http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvista_x86_163.11.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvis...x86_163.11.html</a></p><p>AND</p><p>2) Install the Microsoft hotfix for KB940105 - "Virtual address space usage in Windows game development"     64-bit (x64): <a href="http://thehotfixshare.net/board/index.php?automodule=downloads&showfile=2840" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://thehotfixshare.net/board/ind...p;showfile=2840</a>     32-bit (x86): <a href="http://thehotfixshare.net/board/index.php?automodule=downloads&showfile=2830" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://thehotfixshare.net/board/ind...p;showfile=2830</a></p><p>THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER</p><p>I cannot stress this point enough.  Individually, these two pieces of software will not change anything and you will continue to experience the same out-of-memory error because of the 2GB virtual memory address space limitation in Windows 32-bit applications.  I have seen several posts stating that the KB940105 patch did not solve this problem.  That is because it requires an updated graphics driver to work with the new patch.  The latest BETA driver (v163.11) from Nvidia does just that!</p><p>After installing this patch I ran around Qeynos Harbor in Extreme Quality for over 30 minutes and could not crash the game.  I have never been able to do that before now. </p><p>ADAM0S</p>

[squeakymills]

yeah well there is no update for my video card and the fix does jack [Removed for Content]

[Phatt]

<cite>DeadGopher wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>UPDATE:</p><p>The update is back on the Microsoft Premier Support site.  It's the same as it was before they pulled it, only now it is packaged for distribution (zipped).</p><p>I am running Vista 32-bit and had been experiencing this problem since I got an Nvidia 8800GTX 768MB graphics card and began trying to run in High Quality or Extreme Quality.</p><p>I was able to eliminate this problem with the following combination of software updates:</p><p>THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER </p><p>1) Install the latest Nvidia BETA ForceWare driver version 163.11 (August 2, 2007)     64-bit (x64): <a href="http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvista_x64_163.11.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvis...x64_163.11.html</a>     32-bit (x86): <a href="http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvista_x86_163.11.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvis...x86_163.11.html</a></p><p>AND</p><p>2) Install the Microsoft hotfix for KB940105 - "Virtual address space usage in Windows game development"     64-bit (x64): <a href="http://thehotfixshare.net/board/index.php?automodule=downloads&showfile=2840" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://thehotfixshare.net/board/ind...p;showfile=2840</a>     32-bit (x86): <a href="http://thehotfixshare.net/board/index.php?automodule=downloads&showfile=2830" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://thehotfixshare.net/board/ind...p;showfile=2830</a></p><p>THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER THESE ONLY WORK IF INSTALLED TOGETHER</p><p>I cannot stress this point enough.  Individually, these two pieces of software will not change anything and you will continue to experience the same out-of-memory error because of the 2GB virtual memory address space limitation in Windows 32-bit applications.  I have seen several posts stating that the KB940105 patch did not solve this problem.  That is because it requires an updated graphics driver to work with the new patch.  The latest BETA driver (v163.11) from Nvidia does just that!</p><p>After installing this patch I ran around Qeynos Harbor in Extreme Quality for over 30 minutes and could not crash the game.  I have never been able to do that before now. </p><p>ADAM0S</p></blockquote> Wrong. I have the 162.22 Vista drivers for my 8800GTX, and the hotfix worked perfectly on my PC. I can now run around QH till the cows come home, and I dont crash. Also, what is your PC spec to allow you to run in Extreme Quality without lagging?

[DeadGopher]

<p>Phattie, you are wrong.</p><p> I tested Nvidia ForceWare v162.22 drivers and observed the virtual address space used by EverQuest2.exe (using Sysinternals Process Explorer) and v162.22 does NOT take advantage of the memory management changes in hotfix KB940105.  You need the new v163.11 BETA driver from Nvidia.</p><p>I still lag in Extreme Quality, but it's not a slide show.  I reduce to High Quality for adventuring.</p><p>My PC specs are:</p><p>Intel E6750 (2.66GHz) Core2Duo overclocked to 3.68GHz (460x8 @ 1.3875v) eVGA GeForce 8800GTX overclocked to 620MHz Core, 1000MHz Memory Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme heatsink with a 120mm S-Flex SFF21F (1600 RPM) fan Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R v1.0 motherboard with onboard sound 2GB (2x1) Crucial DDR2 PC26400 RAM 4-4-4-12 (2:1 ratio, 920MHz) Western Digital Corp. 150GB 10,000 RPM Raptor harddrive (WD1500ADFD-00NLR) for Windows and EQ2 Western Digital Corp. 250GB 7,200 RPM Caviar SE16 harddrive (WD2500KS-00MJB0) for Pagefile and storage Buffalo Technology 4GB Ultra High Speed USB flash drive (RUF2-S4GWH) for Windows ReadyBoost Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Edition 32-bit (x86)</p><p>ADAM0S</p>

[Phatt]

If I was at home i'd take a screenshot of my device manager graphics card drive screen.

[DeadGopher]

<p>Phattie,</p><p>I'm happy for you that you are not crashing with the v162.22 driver, however, you are not getting any benefit from the KB490105 hotfix.  You are simply not exceeding the 2GB virtual memory address space limit at this time.</p><p>I don't want others read your post and assume that v162.22 plus this hotfix will help them, because it will not.  The v162.22 drivers do not use less virtual memory address space with this patch.  The BETA v163.11 drivers do use less because they are coded to take advantage of the changes implemented by Microsoft in this hotfix.</p><p>If you do not believe me, go get Process Explorer and try each driver version with and without the KB940105 hotfix.  Observe the "Virtual Size" of the EverQuest.exe process and you will see that under the v163.11 with the hotfix, the usage is much less.  Any other combination will not reduce the "Virtual Size".</p><p>I know this because I did the testing myself.  Also, I have been unable to push the address space usage over the 2GB limit and crash EQ2, which I can easily do with the v162.22 drivers, with or witout the patch.</p><p>ADAM0S </p>

[Wingrider01]

<cite>DeadGopher wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Phattie,</p><p>I'm happy for you that you are not crashing with the v162.22 driver, however, you are not getting any benefit from the KB490105 hotfix.  You are simply not exceeding the 2GB virtual memory address space limit at this time.</p><p>I don't want others read your post and assume that v162.22 plus this hotfix will help them, because it will not.  The v162.22 drivers do not use less virtual memory address space with this patch.  The BETA v163.11 drivers do use less because they are coded to take advantage of the changes implemented by Microsoft in this hotfix.</p><p>If you do not believe me, go get Process Explorer and try each driver version with and without the KB940105 hotfix.  Observe the "Virtual Size" of the EverQuest.exe process and you will see that under the v163.11 with the hotfix, the usage is much less.  Any other combination will not reduce the "Virtual Size".</p><p>I know this because I did the testing myself.  Also, I have been unable to push the address space usage over the 2GB limit and crash EQ2, which I can easily do with the v162.22 drivers, with or witout the patch.</p><p>ADAM0S </p></blockquote><p>One thing that you did not mention on this fix - to <u>officially</u> obtain it you need to call into MS and obtain the fix. The fix is NOT retro tested and may cause other issues down the line. It is a interim fix only, not a final resolution to this type of issue.</p><p>Per MS - </p><p>The following hotfix is an interim solution to this problem. This interim solution is described in detail in the <i>Virtual Address Space Usage in Windows Game Development</i> white paper. For more information, visit the following Microsoft Web site: <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/display/WDDM_VA.mspx" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/devic...ay/WDDM_VA.mspx</a> </p><p>In addition if the system is running multiple vcards there is a prerequisite hotfix, that if it is not installed can cause issues for directx 10 applications that are run on systems with just the indicated hotfix installed.</p>

[Phatt]

<cite>DeadGopher wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Phattie,</p><p>I'm happy for you that you are not crashing with the v162.22 driver, however, you are not getting any benefit from the KB490105 hotfix.  You are simply not exceeding the 2GB virtual memory address space limit at this time.</p><p>I don't want others read your post and assume that v162.22 plus this hotfix will help them, because it will not.  The v162.22 drivers do not use less virtual memory address space with this patch.  The BETA v163.11 drivers do use less because they are coded to take advantage of the changes implemented by Microsoft in this hotfix.</p><p>If you do not believe me, go get Process Explorer and try each driver version with and without the KB940105 hotfix.  Observe the "Virtual Size" of the EverQuest.exe process and you will see that under the v163.11 with the hotfix, the usage is much less.  Any other combination will not reduce the "Virtual Size".</p><p>I know this because I did the testing myself.  Also, I have been unable to push the address space usage over the 2GB limit and crash EQ2, which I can easily do with the v162.22 drivers, with or witout the patch.</p><p>ADAM0S </p></blockquote>I've edited my post to make it seem less argumentative. I am not trying to dispute your findings, all I am saying is this: Before the hotfix, EQ2 was taking more than 1.5Gb of RAM (then crashed). Afterwards, it now takes 1.3Gb while in Qeynos Harbor. This is with no other changes to my system. It was simply - Crashed in QH, installed hotfix, reboot, no more crashes. I am just posting my findings, thats all. If the 163.xx BETA drivers make even better use of the hotfix, then I may upgrade if necessary. But until I start crashing again, I see no reason to. EDIT2: I don't know if this is relevant, but Dxdiag seems to think my 8800GTX has 1.5Gb of video memory...