A dissapointed SK

[Esoh]

Okay im a 44 SK currently. For AAs I finished strength line for int I have 4-4-2 trying to get last skill to 8. Also working my way down reaver line halfway there. All my spells are AP 4 thru Adept 1. Problem is when im grouped I'm consistenly at the bottom of DPS for the group. Hell even the healers out damage me. When this first started happening I thought it was because of my low level but at 44 its still the same. I'm tired of getting ragged by my group members almost to the point I'm thinking of rolling a zerker. Just wanted to ask some of the seasoned SKs out there is there something that I could be doing wrong or is it going to get better at higher levels? I cant keep being the laughing stock of the group very frustating. Well thanks in advance for all the advice I'm going to get.

[joeygopher]

<p>well we're never going to be top of the DPS tree, but you can still put out some nice damage.  make sure you pump AAs into your spell crits (in the INT line), boost your INT with jewelry, upgrade your spells where possible to at least adept III.  remember we get about 75% spells 25% combat arts - so we rely much more on INT than STR.</p><p> your DPS can be dependant on the kind of encounter - big groups are where you will shine.  Also we get some of our best spells in the 50s, so hang on till then before deciding whether to quit your SK.  Tap Veins and Death March totally rock, and suddenly you will feel pretty uber again <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> if you're building groups yourself, try and pick classes that will help your damage - anything that increases INT / spell damage / disease debuffs (thinking necros, troubs, defilers, dirges).</p>

[Dead Knight]

I'm afraid that the problem is not with the class, but rather with something you're doing wrong. SK's almost always top the parse in a group setting, in raids it's a different story, but even then with the right gear speccing and AAs I parse with the mages. I would suggest looking at your gear, spell quality, casting order and letting auto attack through.

[Beldin_]

Dead Knight wrote: <blockquote>I'm afraid that the problem is not with the class, but rather with something you're doing wrong. SK's almost always top the parse in a group setting </blockquote><p>/sign</p><p>I played my second SK always in a group with a brigand, and in zones with only tripple-ups the briga was better, but in zones with more groups of mobs, i mostly did better then the briga. However i think that was at 55+, i can't remember if i looked for my dps before.</p><p>2 things : you should have gone 4/4/8 INT at very first. At your level your spells should be minimum adept 1.</p>

[Esoh]

Yeah I was thinking of respecing my AA to get crit box up to 8 then going with reaver line. Well I got a little cash now so I'llk go ahead and update to adepts man thats going to hurt hehe. Will keep everyone posted on my new damage output I ding 45 in 5% so will see how that goes.

[melaine_dvarvensplitter]

<cite>Esoh wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah I was thinking of respecing my AA to get crit box up to 8 then going with reaver line. Well I got a little cash now so I'llk go ahead and update to adepts man thats going to hurt hehe. Will keep everyone posted on my new damage output I ding 45 in 5% so will see how that goes.</blockquote>If ya can harvest your rares for your adept 3's .. yeah it's boring harvesting but it's tons cheaper. I wish I had done the harvesting back when I was leveling, then well after I dinged 70 to start harvesting.

[SabbraCadabbra]

Someone inform me why a Shadowknight would want to be dps? Im building my SK for tanking, sure I do some pretty good DPS but that helps me keep aggro so I can tank. I am not worried about being top of the dps list as long as I can hold aggro and keep the group from wiping im happy...

[PFCGriff]

<cite>SabbraCadabbra wrote:</cite><blockquote>Someone inform me why a Shadowknight would want to be dps? Im building my SK for tanking, sure I do some pretty good DPS but that helps me keep aggro so I can tank. I am not worried about being top of the dps list as long as I can hold aggro and keep the group from wiping im happy...</blockquote>To each their own. Im set up for DPS to deal out more damage to help with my aggro control in group settings - but to also deal out the damage when Im raiding (parsing 1st zone wide amoung our fighters). So different for each

[melaine_dvarvensplitter]

<cite>SabbraCadabbra wrote:</cite><blockquote>Someone inform me why a Shadowknight would want to be dps? Im building my SK for tanking, sure I do some pretty good DPS but that helps me keep aggro so I can tank. I am not worried about being top of the dps list as long as I can hold aggro and keep the group from wiping im happy...</blockquote>You can still build for dps and tank quite effectively. I have 848 in INT, and 65881 in STA, and tank quite well. My mit in off stance is 54.4% and have fairly decent gear. In def stance my mit is 57.4%. I also have Reaver and Hate lines in EoF done as well. *My gear is fabled, legendary, and a couple pieces of treasured.  I do raid  but dont have  a couple pieces  I would like in fabled done yet...* I like the extra dps which helps aggro control which makes my tanking so much easier as I am generating more Aggro and keeping the mobs off the rest of the group. Now there are some classes that it is trickier than others to get it off of but after a few deaths they learn to control there aggro. Just my 2cp.

[Esoh]

It's not that I wanted to be number one but actually i was the last person in the parse on a constant basis even the healer was beating me. My group members kept making jokes about it and it was getting aggravating after 40+ levels. Well i respec my AAs now and have strength line finished and 4-4-48 Int now. I upgraded most of my spells to adept 3s now. Waiting to get in a group to check it out. Will keep everyone posted. I just dinged 45 now.

[Neiloch]

First thinig I have to mention is, YOU CAN CAST YOUR BLESSING ON OTHER PEOPLE. Reason why I say this, and in caps, is because I have ran into waaaay too many SK's who dont know this (not sure if you know or not, so this is just for peopel in general). Even if your just damage, keep chain casting your blessing on the tank, you will be very surprised by the results. It does awesome damage and when I was in a full on AE group with the tank taking on some 15 mobs at a time I was HEALING about 1/2 to 3/4 of what the fury was doing. I was duoing with a 70 necro at level 62 in bonemire. everything was orange with some amount of up arrows so tanking wasn't really an option so the necro got out his tank pet and I just got everything out I could to do more damage. Not only was I healing his tank pet more then the necro was able to, I was doing about half the damage the 70 necro was doing with my 62 SK, just because I was chain casting blessing on the tank pet. About half the damage including his pet. Basically no matter what your doing you have to be chain casting blessing, even if whoever has full health its still going to nuke the hell out of whoever is hitting the person who are casting blessing on. Chain cast blessing on whoever is getting whaled on or your only half an SK.

[AziBam]

No doubt blessing is awesome.  However, in terms of dps it won't help you at all unless you are tanking and therefore casting it on yourself.  When you cast it on someone else the heals and hate all attribute to the target, not to the SK.  If you are tanking, it helps greatly to precast it on yourself both for heals and damage which = more hate and health.  The only time to be careful is casting it on a dps class that has pulled aggro.  Yes, you MIGHT be able to keep them alive but more likely you are just solidifying their aggro position with the mob which will probably mean a dead dpser.  Especially a caster.  I have lobbied on these boards in the past for the "credit" to be changed to always be to the SK but was pretty much told to hush by nearly all who responded.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I would love to be able to use it as another tool to help regain aggro if someone in my group pulls the mobs attention.  Great tanking macro that someone else posted on these boards ages ago is: /target_self /useability X Blessing /target_previous Makes the precast process very easy.  Alternatively, with the newer macro system I guess you could just make yourself the target for one icon and drag a "normal" non-macro icon for casting on others.  Haven't needed to try the new style since I already had the old macro set. 

[Neiloch]

When parsing, the heals and damage from the blessing counts towards me, i'll take your word for it on the hate. i never suggest casting it on someone else if tanking, but if your not tanking you still need to be casting it, it attributes a large amount to what a SK can ultimately do. In general only cast it on the tank(s) or yourself.

[Wildmage]

Pardon my brain fudgery.

[DMIstar]

Sorry though have to disagree with Grave Blessings being counted towards anyone else but tank.. Grave Blessings put on tank acts as a trigger buff for its target ... So On log Shows As: (1186882120)[Sat Aug 11 20:28:40 2007] Tank's Voracious Soul hits Prince Thirneg but fail to inflict any damage. (1186882120)[Sat Aug 11 20:28:40 2007] Tank's Voracious Soul heals Tank for 435 hit points. "I Picked this also to show its interesting even though the dmg failed on mob.. the heal amount is still triggered." Grave Blessings on ACT shows up as Voracious Soul as above. Both Triggers Heal and Dmg are alotted to the targets parse in the end.. there is no log for act to capture to revert it to the SK. The only Known instance right now that can be done to add DPS from an outside source of the casters, is with the Pet nameing.. Rename Pet to Casters name and the pets damage will be allocated to caster, Due to the names are the same. Grave Blessings is a great tool, It normal gets off 5 triggers per cast .. but for DPS, due to its long cast time, hurts the SKs damage. I only use it on situations needed. *** It is not needed on every situation or encounter, Blindly casting it all the time is just waisting mana in the long run.

[AziBam]

<cite>Wildmage wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>AziBam wrote:</cite><blockquote>No doubt blessing is awesome.  However, in terms of dps it won't help you at all unless you are tanking and therefore casting it on yourself.  When you cast it on someone else the heals and hate all attribute to the target, not to the SK.  If you are tanking, it helps greatly to precast it on yourself both for heals and damage which = more hate and health.  The only time to be careful is casting it on a dps class that has pulled aggro.  Yes, you MIGHT be able to keep them alive but more likely you are just solidifying their aggro position with the mob which will probably mean a dead dpser.  Especially a caster.  I have lobbied on these boards in the past for the "credit" to be changed to always be to the SK but was pretty much told to hush by nearly all who responded.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I would love to be able to use it as another tool to help regain aggro if someone in my group pulls the mobs attention.  Great tanking macro that someone else posted on these boards ages ago is: /target_self /useability X Blessing /target_previous Makes the precast process very easy.  Alternatively, with the newer macro system I guess you could just make yourself the target for one icon and drag a "normal" non-macro icon for casting on others.  Haven't needed to try the new style since I already had the old macro set.  </blockquote>and thats the flaw of DPS obsession you care more about your preformance than that of the group/raid as a whole the blessing being put on the tank keeps his hate steadier and alive longer keeping there less chance of random wipes, but noooooooooooo you gotta chase that dps rainbow. </blockquote>Wildmage. Um, wow.  You might want to reread why I said I'd like it to parse to us.  Not a very selfish reason there.  Btw, improving dps is the point of this thread for the OP.  I just wanted to make sure it was understood that blessing won't accomplish that goal unless it is being cast on himself.  (I'll be the first to admit to thinking it should be changed for parsing purposes too but that is not at all an argument that I intended to have in this thread.)   I understand why you like it the way it is.  Neiloch.  I haven't specifically looked at a parse for voracious soul in the last few updates.  If they made that change it wasn't posted in notes.  Course, wouldn't be the first time a change like that has come through without us being told.  /shrug  I'll give an example though, a while back I was grouped with a zerker guildmate who was tanking.  I was in a dps role.  I noted after we finished an instance that the zerk had a ton of heal points parsed to him.  I couldn't figure out why so looked more closely at it.  It was entirely from voracious soul and from unholy strike (the proc from our Everlasting Hunger buff).  I looked at his damage and the procs showed up there as well.  In other words, all aspects of the damage and heals were parsing to the zerker not me.   If the heals and damage are going to the zerk then the hate would be too.  I'll have to take a look at it again soon though to see if it has changed.  (Actually, it's for exactly this reason that people like Wildmage feel the way they do.  In a raid, if you cast it on the tank you are helping a small amount with their aggro since it makes the tank cause more damage and by generating some of "their own" heals.)  I still use it all the time whether I'm tanking or DPSing but unless it has changed it only increases my personal dps if I cast it on myself when tanking.

[Neiloch]

Well couple of things I've realized after your reply. I decided to go out and parse this specifically to see what the blessing does. Your right it counts towards who ever its getting cast on. (I got in a duo and had all buffs turned off for both of us, basically only thing that we were doing is him auto-attacking and me casting my blessing on him). What this means though that SK's are WAY better then I thought. Seriously, I just assumed the blessing was counting towards me since I was approaching the capability to heal myself as much as a priest could my same level and doing half the damage of a necromancer 8 levels above me when I'm NOT tanking. This means, EVEN WITH MY OWN BLESSING WORKING AGAINST ME on the parses, I was still doing a huge amount of healing and damage on the parses. Guess I was exaggerating when I said use it all the time, but I can safely say you should be using it most of the time. Fights that are just short/easy in general would indeed be a waste. Also if the tank is being healed well by the healer without the healer straining themselves/running out power, I wouldn't bother with it then either.

[Bowser]

I've really enjoyed playing a SK, but the recent nerfs have got me disappointed too.

[Wildmage]

<cite>AziBam wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wildmage wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>AziBam wrote:</cite><blockquote>No doubt blessing is awesome.  However, in terms of dps it won't help you at all unless you are tanking and therefore casting it on yourself.  When you cast it on someone else the heals and hate all attribute to the target, not to the SK.  If you are tanking, it helps greatly to precast it on yourself both for heals and damage which = more hate and health.  The only time to be careful is casting it on a dps class that has pulled aggro.  Yes, you MIGHT be able to keep them alive but more likely you are just solidifying their aggro position with the mob which will probably mean a dead dpser.  Especially a caster.  I have lobbied on these boards in the past for the "credit" to be changed to always be to the SK but was pretty much told to hush by nearly all who responded.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I would love to be able to use it as another tool to help regain aggro if someone in my group pulls the mobs attention.  Great tanking macro that someone else posted on these boards ages ago is: /target_self /useability X Blessing /target_previous Makes the precast process very easy.  Alternatively, with the newer macro system I guess you could just make yourself the target for one icon and drag a "normal" non-macro icon for casting on others.  Haven't needed to try the new style since I already had the old macro set.  </blockquote>and thats the flaw of DPS obsession you care more about your preformance than that of the group/raid as a whole the blessing being put on the tank keeps his hate steadier and alive longer keeping there less chance of random wipes, but noooooooooooo you gotta chase that dps rainbow. </blockquote>Wildmage. Um, wow.  You might want to reread why I said I'd like it to parse to us.  Not a very selfish reason there.  Btw, improving dps is the point of this thread for the OP.  I just wanted to make sure it was understood that blessing won't accomplish that goal unless it is being cast on himself.  (I'll be the first to admit to thinking it should be changed for parsing purposes too but that is not at all an argument that I intended to have in this thread.)   I understand why you like it the way it is.  Neiloch.  I haven't specifically looked at a parse for voracious soul in the last few updates.  If they made that change it wasn't posted in notes.  Course, wouldn't be the first time a change like that has come through without us being told.  /shrug  I'll give an example though, a while back I was grouped with a zerker guildmate who was tanking.  I was in a dps role.  I noted after we finished an instance that the zerk had a ton of heal points parsed to him.  I couldn't figure out why so looked more closely at it.  It was entirely from voracious soul and from unholy strike (the proc from our Everlasting Hunger buff).  I looked at his damage and the procs showed up there as well.  In other words, all aspects of the damage and heals were parsing to the zerker not me.   If the heals and damage are going to the zerk then the hate would be too.  I'll have to take a look at it again soon though to see if it has changed.  (Actually, it's for exactly this reason that people like Wildmage feel the way they do.  In a raid, if you cast it on the tank you are helping a small amount with their aggro since it makes the tank cause more damage and by generating some of "their own" heals.)  I still use it all the time whether I'm tanking or DPSing but unless it has changed it only increases my personal dps if I cast it on myself when tanking. </blockquote>yes I shouldn't post while recovering from a migraine....apologies.

[AziBam]

<img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Esoh]

<p>Just to give everyone a update finally got into my guild raid group after upgrading and respecing my AAs. I was consistenly second in a six man group right behind our guardian. He is the sickest in our guild usually averaging three times the dps of our scouts. I was about 1-2k damage behind him and thats awesome. Blew the doors of our scouts and paladins who were 5 levels above me hehehe. Finally I started to get compliments and people stopped joking me oh how redemption feels. Thanks for the input but I do have another question now. I just hit 48 now and was going through the best of class leaderboards for Sks and the way they have there AAs setup I noticied alot have 4-4-8 Int and the full stamina line and no strength. I have the full strength line for fast cast and resuse timers. Overall would stamina line be better than strength?</p><p>And is it normal for a guardian to be the top DPSer in a raid group? Even when we do PUGs he outdamages everyone and he only 52 now with no extradorinary gear or weapons. </p>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<cite>Esoh wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>And is it normal for a guardian to be the top DPSer in a raid group? Even when we do PUGs he outdamages everyone and he only 52 now with no extradorinary gear or weapons. </p></blockquote><p>No it is extremely abnormal... to the point where I can say that I have *never* seen that on <u>few hundred</u> raids I participated in. It shows that the PUG DPSers that are involved are not upgraded, or haven't learned to maximize their class potential yet.</p><p>...and gratz on the improvements <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[Gutwren]

Ya... you're definatly doing something wrong.. Was on my SK last night in CT, with a troub, temp, nec, conj, and lock. I was on the top of the parse just about every fight... I have reaver and 448int. Hell, I even parsed near the temp on healing... Anyways, we didn't suck... got bored a few times and would pull 3-4 encounters and tanked it all just fine, didn't notice any issues. SK got a ding of level 46 while in that group. Anyways.... I tank in offensive with a 1h and a shield.

[Esoh]

<p>Ok my DPS has come along way up now thanks for all the help people. I dinged 50 now getting there. Last concern I'm seeing alot of SKs going down the stamina line and dumping the strength line altogether. Curious is that the way to go for the melee crit bonus or should I keep my strength line? Thanks for the all the advice.</p>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

Not sure about others, but the melee crit was just a nice bonus to why I went down that line (and I only put 4 points in it). I went down the STA line to Max hy Health, and for the final ability (Divine Aura).

[MaCloud1032]

<p>The reason most sks have the sta line is for end ability.  Alot of raid guilds that run with a sk run with them for the off/pickup tank.  The sta line also boosts your overall hp by a bit.  This also ups the amout of heal we get from reaver.  I personaly am str/int speced and pars 900-1500 with spikes of 2k.</p><p>The reason your gaurd is so high on the dps is his AA spec.  Warriors get a 66% or some there near there double attack.  Warriors also have a high repost % .</p><p>Also a lot of there dmg comes from auto attacks.  Ours is off of our spells/CA's.  Spell quality is a lot for us.  We need masters and AddIII's.  </p><p>We also have to maintain a balliance in our stats.  Warriors can pump all they want into a couple stats(str,sta,agi) we need to up (str,sta,int,agi)</p><p>In higher tiers you will see the gaurd kind of putter off and level out and the rest of the dps will contiualy go up.</p>