Game Improvements, How about fixing what is REALLY broken?

[SantiagoDraco]

<p>This has probably been posted elsewhere, if so, well <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I just returned to the game.  The first thing I've noticed is the complete lack of improvement in game performance in the nearly 2 years the game has been out.  Luckily I have a very powerful system at home that can handle the game at max settings.  However when I travel I don't, and frankly the game won't run in a playable fashion at the very lowest settings.  At best I can get 1fps out of the game.</p><p>However I can run WoW or LOTRO on that notebook at a playable 20-25fps.</p><p>If SOE want's to see this game remain successful they need to put some time and money into improving the graphics engine itself.  It remains one of the most ineffecient game engines I've played to date and is, imo the number one cause of the game failing to meet expectations.  It's sad too considering the game is great; it has wonderful content, a lot of depth, and is very enjoyable.  But there's a lot of folks out there that can't experience this because of the game engine.</p><p>Anyway my 2 cents <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Cocytus]

If WoW only runs at 20-25 FPS for you you need a new computer...

[MadLordOfMilk]

<cite>Cocytus wrote:</cite><blockquote>If WoW only runs at 20-25 FPS for you you need a new computer...</blockquote>Irrelevant. This game's engine really [Removed for Content] your resources either way. And as Cocytus said, that's while travelling w/a laptop, not w/a gaming pc.

[Sairusco]

<p>I wouldn't call the engine broken, but it seems it is indeed very inefficient. I'm playing with a quadcore @ 3 Ghz, 8Gb ram and a 2x 8800 GTX in SLI which would be enough for most games to get a decent framerate, however it took me like a week to tweak the graphic setting to get a decent framerate in this game. (and right now I'm running only between high and very high settings)</p><p>Btw, I also recently came back to this game and I'm really pleased with all the improvements made to it since almost 2 years back <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p><p>I have to admit SOE did a wonderful job with EoF and beside that Rise of the Kunark + the skeletal revamp both sound wonderful, I'm really looking forward to them.</p>

[Supernova17]

This game wasn't designed with Dual or Quad core in mind. It was designed to follow processor progression that isn't going very far these days (faster clocked and powerful single core monster CPU's) iirc. Multi core systems are more efficient and can be very powerful gaming monsters, but some games do not take advantage of them like EQ2. WoW and other MMO's like it have such low end graphics that any PC will run them perfect regardless.

[Off]

I have to agree.  If you're running a dual or quad core machine, there is a program you can run called Task Assign which will enable any program on your computer to run on a designated core.  For example, I have a dual core system, but even though my specs are above what is required to play this game I still lag like a s.o.b.  My husband downloaded this program onto my machine, showed me how to use it (it's like task manager in a way), and now I can play this game on one core instead of two.  Granted there are still some very laggy spots in the game, and granted server congestion play a factor in lag, but I have to say that it's a lot better than it was before I was running Task Assign.  Best of luck to you!

[Sairusco]

<cite>Supernova17 wrote:</cite><blockquote>This game wasn't designed with Dual or Quad core in mind. It was designed to follow processor progression that isn't going very far these days (faster clocked and powerful single core monster CPU's) iirc. Multi core systems are more efficient and can be very powerful gaming monsters, but some games do not take advantage of them like EQ2. WoW and other MMO's like it have such low end graphics that any PC will run them perfect regardless. </blockquote> I understand that, (however it would be nice if this game would support multi cores over time, since its becoming standard now) but say it only uses 1 core, its still a 3Ghz cpu. Besides, it seems to me that the progress in cpu development goes toward multi cores and 64bit support rather than raw singlecore power.

[Sairusco]

<cite>Offem wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have to agree.  If you're running a dual or quad core machine, there is a program you can run called Task Assign which will enable any program on your computer to run on a designated core.  For example, I have a dual core system, but even though my specs are above what is required to play this game I still lag like a s.o.b.  My husband downloaded this program onto my machine, showed me how to use it (it's like task manager in a way), and now I can play this game on one core instead of two.  Granted there are still some very laggy spots in the game, and granted server congestion play a factor in lag, but I have to say that it's a lot better than it was before I was running Task Assign.  Best of luck to you! </blockquote>I'll try this out, thanks <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[SantiagoDraco]

I'll give task assign a try also, but even if it helps "some" it still doesn't address the main issue, the inefficiency of the game engine.  My point is that even 2 years after release the game STILL runs poorly.  That with considerable increases in processor and gpu power.  It's really a shame as it's a major factor keeping this game from the success it deserves.  What game are you going to play, one that runs in a playable fashion or one that is unplayable? Of course on the right hardware it runs well (still not perfectly!) but if you don't have the right hardware you're going to have issues.  Anyway I just want to see the game succeed and this is one of those issues that needs addressed <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[kenm]

I have to agree with the OP, the performance in this game is a complete joke.  However, I say this mainly because the huge performance issues are all with the *UI*, not the graphics engine. I can be bogging along at 15 FPS somewhere, hit F10 twice to completely disable my UI, and pop up to 40.  The game's not exactly playable without a UI, and seeing how much of a performance hit it causes for <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=376406" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">seemingly no reason at all</a> just angers me.  I mean it's a freaking UI, why is it more of a system hog than like... the actual game?  It makes no sense.

[Sairusco]

I've been searching all over the internet for Task Assign (it's really hard to find anything about this program), for the people who want to try it out, it's here: <a href="http://images.tomshardware.com/2004/05/28/getting_more_bang_out_of_your_dual_processing_buck/taskassign.zip" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://images.tomshardware.com/2004....taskassign.zip</a>

[Off]

I'm sorry, I knew I should have posted a link to it.  Forgive me?  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> To make it up, I will walk you through the set up! Once you unzip it and install it, a task manager-like window will open.  There are three tabs.  *click on the 2nd tab.  It's called Application Profiles.  *In the top half there is a browse button. Click it.  Find your EQII program file.  For example, mine is under Program Files/Sony/Everquest II/Everquest2 *Click add *Select which CPU you want.  (For dual core you have CPU 0 and 1, for quad core 2 and 3 will be active, and so on) *In the lower portion you will see Everquest2.exe with an affinity number assigned.  Then all you have to do is launch EQII itself and bada bing, you should be good as gold.  **The cool thing about this program is that it will keep the programs and CPU's you've assigned them to in its memory.  Just keep the program up and running while you play, and when you are done, close it out.  That's all there is to it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Happy playing!

[Lilj]

<cite>SantiagoDraco wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This has probably been posted elsewhere, if so, well <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I just returned to the game.  The first thing I've noticed is the complete lack of improvement in game performance in the nearly 2 years the game has been out.  Luckily I have a very powerful system at home that can handle the game at max settings.  However when I travel I don't, and frankly the game won't run in a playable fashion at the very lowest settings.  At best I can get 1fps out of the game.</p><p>However I can run WoW or LOTRO on that notebook at a playable 20-25fps.</p></blockquote>Sounds like an old machine (or something that runs with shared memory), does your machine even match the minimum requirements for the game?

[Novusod]

Of all the all the things ever discussed here I would have to say this is the most important. At times the game becomes so laggy it is unplayable. It is in those moments alone when I truely consider canceling my subscription. The game is full of all kinds of memory leaks and ineffincies and it is one thing that never seems to get fixed. It is not that my PC is obsolete, its' not. I can play newer games with better graphics and the lag is much less. All things considered I don't even know why I am still here. I should have moved on long ago.

[Hamervelder]

Server population also plays a massive part in how the game runs on your system.  At peak hours, my FPS is in the gutter, yet late at night when there are few folks on, the game flies.

[Devilsbane]

<cite>Liljna wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SantiagoDraco wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This has probably been posted elsewhere, if so, well <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I just returned to the game.  The first thing I've noticed is the complete lack of improvement in game performance in the nearly 2 years the game has been out.  Luckily I have a very powerful system at home that can handle the game at max settings.  However when I travel I don't, and frankly the game won't run in a playable fashion at the very lowest settings.  At best I can get 1fps out of the game.</p><p>However I can run WoW or LOTRO on that notebook at a playable 20-25fps.</p></blockquote>Sounds like an old machine (or something that runs with shared memory), does your machine even match the minimum requirements for the game? </blockquote>Exactly, the system requirements changed with the release of DoF or KoS. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Sairusco]

<cite>Offem wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm sorry, I knew I should have posted a link to it.  Forgive me?  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> To make it up, I will walk you through the set up! Once you unzip it and install it, a task manager-like window will open.  There are three tabs.  *click on the 2nd tab.  It's called Application Profiles.  *In the top half there is a browse button. Click it.  Find your EQII program file.  For example, mine is under Program Files/Sony/Everquest II/Everquest2 *Click add *Select which CPU you want.  (For dual core you have CPU 0 and 1, for quad core 2 and 3 will be active, and so on) *In the lower portion you will see Everquest2.exe with an affinity number assigned.  Then all you have to do is launch EQII itself and bada bing, you should be good as gold.  **The cool thing about this program is that it will keep the programs and CPU's you've assigned them to in its memory.  Just keep the program up and running while you play, and when you are done, close it out.  That's all there is to it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Happy playing! </blockquote>No probs for not providing a link I found it eventually and thank you very much for your support. I tried the application out before you posted this walkthrough and I didnt notice a difference in performance, but at that time I also didn't know you have to keep the app open and running <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> so with this new info I'll give it a second try.

[Wargurine]

You don't really need a 3rd party program to set the affinity of a program so it only runs on one core. You can do that right from task manager. And doing it each time isn't really more annoying than opening a 3rd party program each time hehe.

[Sairusco]

Oh well it doesn't really matter, in the end it did nothing for my performance. The only way this game runs without stuttering is if I disable my second 8800gtx in the xp hardware manager (just disabling SLI isn't enough to get rid of the stuttering <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) Well and besides that I can't play on very high setting, but at least I can play the game. It's a pity I've spend so much money on high end hardware but maybe it will get better at some time.

[Prrasha]

<cite>Sairusco wrote:</cite><blockquote>Oh well it doesn't really matter, in the end it did nothing for my performance. The only way this game runs without stuttering is if I disable my second 8800gtx in the xp hardware manager (just disabling SLI isn't enough to get rid of the stuttering <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) Well and besides that I can't play on very high setting, but at least I can play the game. It's a pity I've spend so much money on high end hardware but maybe it will get better at some time. </blockquote>http://www.dansdata.com/askdan00015.htm Your system is not as sweet as you think it is.  In fact, with two ginormous video cards, unless you know exactly what you're doing, 5 or 6 of your 8GB of RAM will be doing absolutely nothing. The fact that disabling your 2nd card (possibly giving the 2nd card's "memory hole" back to main RAM) improves your performance makes me think that your system probably isn't configured in a way that lets it address RAM above 4GB.

[SantiagoDraco]

I want to emphasize that the main point here is not about system requirements but rather the poor performance of the game, regardless. Is it the UI?  Possibly that's the issue.   Not relevant other than as an area to review for improvement. If the game is to have long term health (longevity, consistent stream of new content and fixes) it needs to run well. The game LOOKS great, but if a user can't run it well enough to play with a group, or fight in a busy dungeon, then they will simply cancel their subscription and move on.  That's why this game is hovering at 100-150k subscribers compared to WoW's several million.  It's all about performance. This is a fantastic game that is artificially crippled by poor engine effeciency and performance.  It's exactly this kind of problem that creates that vicious circle of low subscriptions and revenue, which leads to less advancement which leads to lower subscriptions..etc.  I'm not here to post a 'sky is falling" thread but rather to raise awareness of an area that needs improvement for the good of the game and it's subscribers.

[Sairusco]

<cite>Prrasha wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sairusco wrote:</cite><blockquote>Oh well it doesn't really matter, in the end it did nothing for my performance. The only way this game runs without stuttering is if I disable my second 8800gtx in the xp hardware manager (just disabling SLI isn't enough to get rid of the stuttering <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) Well and besides that I can't play on very high setting, but at least I can play the game. It's a pity I've spend so much money on high end hardware but maybe it will get better at some time. </blockquote>http://www.dansdata.com/askdan00015.htm Your system is not as sweet as you think it is.  In fact, with two ginormous video cards, unless you know exactly what you're doing, 5 or 6 of your 8GB of RAM will be doing absolutely nothing. The fact that disabling your 2nd card (possibly giving the 2nd card's "memory hole" back to main RAM) improves your performance makes me think that your system probably isn't configured in a way that lets it address RAM above 4GB. </blockquote> First: Can you quote the part were I said I have a sweet system? I mean I only said it should run most games with a decent framerate, and it does run most games with a decent framerate, but I'm having difficulties running EQ2 now, Lotro for example also uses a fair amount of ram and runs just fine on my computer with everything maxed and even the highest FSAA and antrioscopic filtering forced through drivers. (sorry if I sound a bit annoyed, but I feel like you are putting words in my mouth) Not that it really matters, but in fact I do know a fair bit about x86 and x64 Operating systems, I'm pretty sure the vga cards (or other hardware for that matter) are not claiming 5 or 6 GB of ram with adresses. Besides my old computer (a AMD64 4800+ with 2GB of ram and 2x 7600GT in SLI) was running the game smoother than Im running it now with my current setup <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> too bad I sold it, I should have kept it for EQ2 <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I'm not sure where the problem is located, but I'm pretty sure it's Nvidia or in the engine of EQ2 (it will probably be a combination since x64 drivers are often way behind with fixes for games it seems)