Is low dps a function of level?

[Tin]

Heya ranger folks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Im here to gather some advice. One of my guildies who I group with every night rolled a ranger when we started playing.  Over the last 10 levels though something has become painfully apparent. At times his dps is absolutely abyssmal. Last night we were doing some Splitpaw and the parses we were seeing every fight were.. bad. A normal fight would like something like Paladin 1300 Ranger 1800 Conj (me) 6000 Sometimes it was even worse then that. Now I know something is fishy here and it aint my dumbfire pets. Im not here to bash him but because I want to see our whole group clearing camps faster. Actually the ranger is my brother and I KNOW hes a good player. I think hes just missing something completely. He has it in his mind that it is like EQ1 where a rangers damage was really pretty mediocre or low during the low levels but as he got to the high levels his bow abilities really began to shine. I like to think we have come a long way from eq1 though. So what can he do to improve his damage? I know im not giving you alot to work with, but I know he has a level 30 handcrafted bow with an imbue. He cant use his mastercraft until 32. He said he has quite a few adept 3s for his level. Maybe he needs a better firing order? Most of the time he is firing his bow off in the distance, occaisonally he will run in and melee but not all fights. Im also pretty sure hes not using poison right now. Any advice, attack order, ANYTHING would be appreciated. Thanks

[TileronEQ2]

Naganaut@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>A normal fight would like something like Paladin 1300 Ranger 1800 Conj (me) 6000 <span style="color: #0099ff">/boggle I really hope those are damage totals and not dps...if you're parsing 6k in splitpaw, you should apply to the most hardcore guild on your server right now </span><img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> He has it in his mind that it is like EQ1 where a rangers damage was really pretty mediocre or low during the low levels but as he got to the high levels his bow abilities really began to shine. I like to think we have come a long way from eq1 though. <span style="color: #0099ff">Well, first off, of course everyone's dps increses with level. However, I would agree that how well a ranger parses compared to other dps classes does increase a bit, as level increases. Still, there's no reason a decently equiped (bow, ammo, armor, CAs), well played ranger shouldnt be able to compete with a conjuror for the top of the parse post lvl 25.</span> So what can he do to improve his damage? I know im not giving you alot to work with, but I know he has a level 30 handcrafted bow with an imbue. He cant use his mastercraft until 32. He said he has quite a few adept 3s for his level. Maybe he needs a better firing order? <span style="color: #0099ff"> I'd recommend checking to make sure he is using crafted arrows of his current teir (either the type with highest or second highest +% to hit). He should always be firing CAs inbetween ranged auto attacks. If you (or the ranger himself) could post what the %s of his damage on average are, we may have better luck seeing why he is parsing less than 1/3 of you. </span> Most of the time he is firing his bow off in the distance, occaisonally he will run in and melee but not all fights. <span style="color: #0099ff">He may want to sit about 5m behind the mob as much as possible, so he can fire off every CA (while still making sure to let ranged auto attacks in).</span> Im also pretty sure hes not using poison right now. <span style="color: #0099ff">Use crafted poisons. Caustic poison will be the damage poison he'll want for his teir. There are plenty of other posts in this forum, which explain poisons in great detail.</span> </blockquote>

[schmee]

<p>i've been playing a fairly twinked 34 ranger lately and rarely am out-parsed, and when i am it's usually by a SK, assasin or something who is 5+ levels higher than me. </p><p>yeah, poisons and crafted arrows are pretty huge. i find it worth splashing out the best of each category (the master crafted poisons, the field point arrows) if i want to be parsing. at the lower levels (currently t4) i find a stack of 20 poisons will last all tier.</p><p>it's worth spending on mastercrated weapons with procs too. my lil ranger has been proccing constantly from level 10ish by always weilding those kind of weapons.</p><p>there are two types of bows, short recast and long recast, 4.5 secs and 7 secs respectively. ranger should be using both, but be aware when to time things in between bow hits so he can come in close for melee CAs in between those hits. there is an ideal range to stand at where the ranger can use both and just switch back and forth.</p><p>the ranger has three lines of attack via their CAs (melee, stealthed, ranged), all of which are quite different from one another and the trick to parsing is to put together combinations that utilize *all* of those forms of damage, while also maximing the damage coming from auto-attack, poisons and procs.</p><p>getting AAs that improve casting times, crit chance and such also obviously help greatly.</p>

[Tin]

What percent of a rangers dps generally comes from poison? Im definitely going to buy him a stack. Im actually a sage so I have tons of the dust to make the mastercraft poisons from making my own adept3s. No parse available or percents since I am at work and clearly working very hard *whistles* Why both a 4.5 and a 7.0 bow? He currently uses a 4.5s bow I believe but his new level 32 bow is a 7.0. Also hes got a good chunk of AA and I know hes already got the improved cast speed one. He got that last night and said its godmode. This was after our nightly slaying though. So use poisons, always stand 5 meters behind the mob (is there a mod he can use for this to show range?)

[TileronEQ2]

Naganaut@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>What percent of a rangers dps generally comes from poison? Im definitely going to buy him a stack. Im actually a sage so I have tons of the dust to make the mastercraft poisons from making my own adept3s. <span style="color: #0099ff">Mastercrafted Caustic Poison will be very nice. Graceless is also nice, for the agi/parry/deflection/defense debuff...it'll help him squeez out a little more dps too. Personally, I see poison accounting for 10-15% of my dps. However, that number comes from raid parses and therefore might be a little lower than what your brother might see. Another ranger on this forum, of closer level to that of your brother, said they were seeing poison account for 18-25% of their dps. Those two ranges should give you an idea.</span> No parse available or percents since I am at work and clearly working very hard *whistles* <span style="color: #0099ff">Post them if/when you can...it'll be interesting to see where the dps is (and isn't) coming from.</span> So use poisons, always stand 5 meters behind the mob (is there a mod he can use for this to show range?) <span style="color: #0099ff">The best advice I can give for this, is watch the hotkeys for your CAs on the arrow rip and shocking thrust lines. You want to move up just so those change from red to useable, but not any further. If any ranged CA hotkeys turn red, you're too close.</span></blockquote>

[Deterre]

He's using a shortbow. That's really crap, use a longbow on a ranger, always.

[jarlaxle8]

<cite>Deterrent wrote:</cite><blockquote>He's using a shortbow. That's really crap, use a longbow on a ranger, always. </blockquote> Damage wise it doesn't really matter. It's just easier to time CAs with a long bow when you have high haste.

[Ranja]

Ryilan@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote><cite>Deterrent wrote:</cite><blockquote>He's using a shortbow. That's really crap, use a longbow on a ranger, always. </blockquote> Damage wise it doesn't really matter. It's just easier to time CAs with a long bow when you have high haste.</blockquote> This could not be farther from the truth. A shortbow is crap. Damage wise it is crap especially when you factor in crits. A longbow with a big damage spread is going to pump out way more dps than a shortbow. This is why no self repsecting ranger will take the fabled short bow from labs - Wyrmdestroyer. This bow is fabled has great stats and a DR of 90 yet RC and TL parse higher than it. Short bows are for bards and other classes that want stats. Longbows are for rangers. Are CAs take longer to cast so they will delay a shortbow's auto-attack. It is not as simple as a longbow hits slow and hard, and a short bow hits light and fast and they are equal. He needs a longbow period.

[jarlaxle8]

<cite>Ranja wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ryilan@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote><cite>Deterrent wrote:</cite><blockquote>He's using a shortbow. That's really crap, use a longbow on a ranger, always. </blockquote> Damage wise it doesn't really matter. It's just easier to time CAs with a long bow when you have high haste.</blockquote> This could not be farther from the truth. A shortbow is crap. Damage wise it is crap especially when you factor in crits. A longbow with a big damage spread is going to pump out way more dps than a shortbow. This is why no self repsecting ranger will take the fabled short bow from labs - Wyrmdestroyer. This bow is fabled has great stats and a DR of 90 yet RC and TL parse higher than it. Short bows are for bards and other classes that want stats. Longbows are for rangers. Are CAs take longer to cast so they will delay a shortbow's auto-attack. It is not as simple as a longbow hits slow and hard, and a short bow hits light and fast and they are equal. He needs a longbow period. </blockquote><p>I basically said that it's about timing of CAs.</p><p>And your statement about factoring in crits is pretty much far from the truth as well. A shortbow may get lower crits, but that's cause they have shorter delay. Same reason for them having lower damage. I am of course talking about bows that have similar damage spread, be it a long bow or a short bow. By damage spread I mean the ratio of highest damage to lowest damage.</p><p>the reason you may be seeing RC doing better is probably cause of ammo tier. Else it shouldn't. Here, for info: <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=371338" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Bows and Arrow Level </a></p>

[Ranja]

Ryilan@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote><cite>Ranja wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ryilan@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote><cite>Deterrent wrote:</cite><blockquote>He's using a shortbow. That's really crap, use a longbow on a ranger, always. </blockquote> Damage wise it doesn't really matter. It's just easier to time CAs with a long bow when you have high haste.</blockquote> This could not be farther from the truth. A shortbow is crap. Damage wise it is crap especially when you factor in crits. A longbow with a big damage spread is going to pump out way more dps than a shortbow. This is why no self repsecting ranger will take the fabled short bow from labs - Wyrmdestroyer. This bow is fabled has great stats and a DR of 90 yet RC and TL parse higher than it. Short bows are for bards and other classes that want stats. Longbows are for rangers. Are CAs take longer to cast so they will delay a shortbow's auto-attack. It is not as simple as a longbow hits slow and hard, and a short bow hits light and fast and they are equal. He needs a longbow period. </blockquote><p>I basically said that it's about timing of CAs.</p><p>And your statement about factoring in crits is pretty much far from the truth as well. A shortbow may get lower crits, but that's cause they have shorter delay. Same reason for them having lower damage. I am of course talking about bows that have similar damage spread, be it a long bow or a short bow. By damage spread I mean the ratio of highest damage to lowest damage.</p><p>the reason you may be seeing RC doing better is probably cause of ammo tier. Else it shouldn't. Here, for info: <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=371338" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Bows and Arrow Level </a></p></blockquote>http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=353709 Read this post b4 you embarras yourself any further<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> No shortbow has a similar damage spread as a longbow. Therefore shortbow = sux I am doing better with RC because it is a better bow. Higher top end damage, bigger damage spread period. The wrym bow is level 69 fabled. RC is 59 fabled.  Please will another ranger that knows what they are talking about step in here and edumacate this ranger.  Even the link you gave me clearly shows RC is a better bow. Are you using a shortbow?

[TileronEQ2]

<p>I think it's important to note here that the OP was asking about a ranger struggling to dps well on grouped content in splitpaw. There, I think Ryilan is pretty much right in saying "damage wise it doesn't really matter". A longbow will be better than a shortbow for timing CAs, but I doubt it would make a significant difference with respect to actual raw damage output. Grouped fights at that level have so many other huge factors, which make a variation in crit mechanics negligable. </p><p>Ranja, I agree with you as well, but the point is we aren't talking about the Wurm Destroyer vs the RC in a raid setup. Of course longbows are without a doubt better in a raiding environment. That's been thoroughly addressed. No serious raiding ranger uses a shortbow.</p><p>To the OP: Imo, longbows will generally work better because of the timing of CA's everyone's discussed. Don't worry about manipulating use of damage spreads. There are much more important (and dare I say enjoyable?) things to do, so long as you dont raid.</p>

[Malloch]

<p>I agree with Tileron.</p><p>In group content at the lower levels, it will not matter a hill of bean which bow type you use.  Damage output will be similar.  The majority of your damage in a group is burst damage from CAs.</p><p>Raiding, you will want to use a longbow. Range of the bow is another factor to consider for raids that is meaningless in groups.</p>

[Deterre]

The guy has 22% ranged crit. Obviously he needs a longbow.

[Malloch]

<cite>Deterrent wrote:</cite><blockquote>The guy has 22% ranged crit. Obviously he needs a longbow. </blockquote><p>It wont matter what type of bow he uses in a lvl 30 group in splitpaw.  The percentage of his damage from autoattacks at his level is very low.  AS you get better bows the percentage goes up to 30-35%, and then up to ~40-50% when you get a very good raid bow.  The crits on autoattacks will make a noticeable difference when 35% of your damage is from autoattacks.  NOT IN A SPLITPAW GROUP AT LVL 30 WHERE LESS THAN 10% OF HIS DAMAGE IS FROM AUTOATTACKS.</p><p>The pristine imubed oak longbow (lvl 32) has a top damage of 154, the pristine imbued oak shortbow has a 99 top damage. (Quality of his Combat Arts will make a considerable difference at his level, <b>bow type will not</b>) In a group, where the fight will only be 10-15 seconds, the MAJORITY of his damage will be from Combat Arts NOT autoattacks (Combat Arts do not rely on bow type, only spell quality and strength.)  The 22% crits will work on his Combat Arts just fine (and will make a much bigger difference than on his autoattack damage). </p><p>RAIDING is a different story as our damage is not based on burst (10-15 second fights)damage but on sustained damage. When 40-50% of you dps is your autoattack, this is where it crit mechanics make a difference.</p><p>Obiviously it DOES NOT MATTER at his level. </p><p> ~mal </p>

[EQ2Magroo]

<p>Here are some tips:</p><p>1. Your CA damage is very important at that level compared to end-game. Make sure you are using Ap4 or AD1 spells as a minimum. ideally AD3 or Master, athough they do cost a lot of money and if levelling fast maybe not worth it.</p><p>2. CA damage increases with your STR, so if you have a low STR value you will do low damage even if you do have the Master 2 of a spell. Raising your STR should be your top priority rather than AGI. What's your STR value ? At level 32 it should be pushing 200 ungrouped if I remember correctly.</p><p>3. Poisons generally do about 10-15% of your overall DPS in my experience, so make sure you are using them.</p><p>4. Quickshot (proc from your offensive stance) hits for about 10% of your DPS, so make sure you are in offensive stance rather than defensive.</p>