Fain Fair was fun but what news did i bring ?

[Spider]

<p>Well well well lady's and gents  i have returned ( to work that is /sigh) </p><p>and first i gotta say fan fair .... was a blast </p><p>i spent a great deal of time with devs and fought for a lot for troubs and while we might not get a lot of what we want there is good news coming</p><p>first  things first  </p><p>a no conc self buff  .....is a strong possibliity </p><p>secondly  potm daze/root  well we might not get our wish completely however they might remove one of the effects either the daze or the root  ( most likely they root)   </p><p>third  buff and debuff scaling will be looked into   as well as there will be some combining of buffs and debuffs for ease of use ( this is across all classes not just troubs) </p><p>forth there will be some raid wide buff utility added WOOT </p><p>fifth  EOF SETS       none of the exsisting sets will be altered at this time .. HOWEVER  </p><p>it is completely drilled into the head of the item and spells guys NO DOVES SONG SET BONUSES on the new rok armor /cheer for all   and all new armor will have  both STR  and INT  as focus with an even spread of all other stats </p><p>charm they will look at possibly reducing the recast </p><p>finaly a little bit of fun news</p><p>the devs alreday understood that power drains wernt working well </p><p>however they took intrest in teh idea of the power drains becoming small power taps and giving us  a  small power transfer much like the dirges heal only for power </p><p> the devs are already reworking hte proc on the self buff to be more effective </p><p>and making some of our lesser used buffs into temporary  buffs ( possibly raid wide)  giving us more activity  on raids  is a possibility</p><p>needless to say i fought tooth and nail for anything and everything i could and we do have some good stuff incoming </p><p>much love to ya all and cross your fingers  because for better or worse troub and bard love is incoming that i was garunteed</p>

[Dendro]

As a recap, the current troubador state of affairs is: bad at soloing, ok in groups, very desirable in raids but not fulfilling because we bring most of our benefit just running PotM and our continuous buffs. <cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote>i spent a great deal of time with devs and fought for a lot for troubs and while we might not get a lot of what we want there is good news coming<p><skipping over pages of _ being looked into> </p><p>third  buff and debuff scaling will be looked into   as well as there will be some combining of buffs and debuffs for ease of use ( this is across all classes not just troubs) </p><p>forth there will be some raid wide buff utility added WOOT </p><p>needless to say i fought tooth and nail for anything and everything i could and we do have some good stuff incoming </p><p>much love to ya all and cross your fingers  because for better or worse troub and bard love is incoming that i was garunteed</p></blockquote> Raid-wide utility buffs? Great, so they're turning us from 75% buffbot to 95% buffbot. Combining buff/debuffs could make us more powerful or less powerful...given the trendline of troubs, I expect the latter.  Regardless, though, it will make the game more and more Fisher-Price, and easier to manage as an afk buffbot.

[Spider]

<cite>Dendro wrote:</cite><blockquote>As a recap, the current troubador state of affairs is: bad at soloing, ok in groups, very desirable in raids but not fulfilling because we bring most of our benefit just running PotM and our continuous buffs. <cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote>i spent a great deal of time with devs and fought for a lot for troubs and while we might not get a lot of what we want there is good news coming <p><skipping over pages of _ being looked into> </p><p>third  buff and debuff scaling will be looked into   as well as there will be some combining of buffs and debuffs for ease of use ( this is across all classes not just troubs) </p><p>forth there will be some raid wide buff utility added WOOT </p><p>needless to say i fought tooth and nail for anything and everything i could and we do have some good stuff incoming </p><p>much love to ya all and cross your fingers  because for better or worse troub and bard love is incoming that i was garunteed</p></blockquote> Raid-wide utility buffs? Great, so they're turning us from 75% buffbot to 95% buffbot. Combining buff/debuffs could make us more powerful or less powerful...given the trendline of troubs, I expect the latter.  Regardless, though, it will make the game more and more Fisher-Price, and easier to manage as an afk buffbot. </blockquote><p> um cheif wake upa nd payu attition </p><p>the raid wides are ACTIVE buffs </p><p>and if you cant solo as a troub then u realy need to l2p bro because troubs are fantastic solo'rs </p><p>great in groups and jsut a little boring but highly usefull in raids </p>

[Dendro]

Maybe these raid-wide troub buffs will be active.  And maybe they'll be useful.  Who knows, maybe they'll even be both. Oh, certainly I <i>can</i> solo my troub...it just solos worse than every other class I play, including defiler.

[Spider]

<cite>Dendro wrote:</cite><blockquote>Maybe these raid-wide troub buffs will be active.  And maybe they'll be useful.  Who knows, maybe they'll even be both. Oh, certainly I <i>can</i> solo my troub...it just solos worse than every other class I play, including defiler. </blockquote><p> then you realy need to work on learning how to solo with a troub  because a troub can solo better tehn most other classes since were the only class that can kite with ease  a troub can kill yellow and oj ^^^ names w/o gettign hit  if they know what there doing   while most other classes will jstu get there rears handed to them </p><p>that said this thread is not about your negativite gibberish so pls refrain from posting here further  </p>

[Dendro]

Since kiting is unusable for most of the content in the game, my statement stands.  So did you get any details on these coming raid-wide buffs? I've read elsewhere that it's the arcane and elemental resist songs that are being converted in this way.  Does that agree with the information you obtained?

[Lilj]

Before you two start a discussion about troub soloing, I think it is a good idea to say what kind of soloing you are talking about <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Soloing to kill a named or soloing for xp. There is a huge difference between the two, and as far as I can see the troub can solo nameds (especially after 50) albeit slowly, but they are slow xp'ers. This is of course just how I see it and I'm sure others disagree. But when talking about soloing, I noticed people often mean different kinds of soloing, so it's often a good idea to tell which one 'you' speak about. Thanks for the news though, Spider.

[Spider]

<cite>Liljna wrote:</cite><blockquote>Before you two start a discussion about troub soloing, I think it is a good idea to say what kind of soloing you are talking about <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Soloing to kill a named or soloing for xp. There is a huge difference between the two, and as far as I can see the troub can solo nameds (especially after 50) albeit slowly, but they are slow xp'ers. This is of course just how I see it and I'm sure others disagree. But when talking about soloing, I noticed people often mean different kinds of soloing, so it's often a good idea to tell which one 'you' speak about. Thanks for the news though, Spider. </blockquote><p> ok ill definately give you cradit on taht one yes there is a differance between the 2  that isnt often clarified </p><p>but rember that when refing to xping  well the best xp is always questing which troubs solo capability shines in </p><p>as for mindless xp gring well tahts always done best in a group  however while a bit slower than some classes troubs can do this fairly well  also  </p>

[Jeger_Wulf]

<p>> and first i gotta say fan fair .... was a blast </p><p>Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for representing us. Thanks also for the report.</p><p>> a no conc self buff  .....is a strong possibliity </p><p>Hmmm.... Not sure I'd call that good news yet. *Crosses his fingers*</p><p>> secondly  potm daze/root  well we might not get our wish > completely however they might remove one of the effects > either the daze or the root  ( most likely they root)   </p><p>"might not" ... "might" ... I am calling this bad news.</p><p>> third  buff and debuff scaling will be looked into   as well as there > will be some combining of buffs and debuffs for ease of use ( this is > across all classes not just troubs) </p><p>I'm not sure how this will play out. It's not really a troubie buff or nerf, more of a game redesign. I'm not sure I like it. I like haviing to choose which debuff to land first, or forgoe. I guess I am calling this neutral for now.</p><p>> forth there will be some raid wide buff utility added WOOT </p><p>It will make the troubie more desired in raids, but they already are sought after. I don't see it increasing the joy of play, so I think the number of troubs will stay at the bottom.</p><p>> fifth  EOF SETS       none of the exsisting sets will be altered at this > time .. HOWEVER  it is completely drilled into the head of the item and > spells guys NO DOVES SONG SET BONUSES on the new rok armor > /cheer for all   and all new armor will have  both STR  and INT  as > focus with an even spread of all other stats </p><p>Mixed news but on the positive side.</p><p>> charm they will look at possibly reducing the recast </p><p>Hmmm... I'd MUCH rather they increased the length. It's SOOO short right now. I am calling this neutral.</p><p>> however they took intrest in teh idea of the power drains becoming > small power taps and giving us  a  small power transfer much like the > dirges heal only for power </p><p>Could be sweet.</p><p>> and making some of our lesser used buffs into temporary  buffs ( possibly > raid wide)  giving us more activity  on raids  is a possibility</p><p>Buff-bot time I guess.</p><p>What's the bottom line? People like Spider who like the troubadour as it is, will like it even more. I am glad for them, and wish we had more of them in my guild. People like me who find the troubadour somewhat boring to play, will still think it's boring. We will be somewhat depressed, because we will assume that this is all the love we are going to get. We will finish leveling up our new mains, and only bring out our troubs when our guildies beg on raids. I wish no-one in my guild knew I have a 70 troub. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p><img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>PS Spider - anything on Mezz changes? Or any CC in raid situations?</p>

[Life777form]

For me the recast and cast time are the downpoints of charm i dont mind the length.

[Lilj]

Please correct me if I'm wrong (which I probably am, hehe), but didn't we have power drain/taps when the game launched? I seem to remember that both bards could take from the enemy and give to themselves, the dirge could take life and the troubador could take power. But then again, this is so long ago, my memory is probably messed with <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Spider]

<cite>Jeger_Wulf wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>> and first i gotta say fan fair .... was a blast </p><p>Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for representing us. Thanks also for the report.</p><p>> a no conc self buff  .....is a strong possibliity </p><p>Hmmm.... Not sure I'd call that good news yet. *Crosses his fingers*</p><p><span style="color: #0000ff"><b>understand taht this is accualy in the works but as for what the final outcome of the changes to it he wouldnt say he jsut said we would be happy</b>  </span></p><p>> secondly  potm daze/root  well we might not get our wish > completely however they might remove one of the effects > either the daze or the root  ( most likely they root)   </p><p>"might not" ... "might" ... I am calling this bad news.</p><p>the spell guy was leaning sdtrongly twards removing the root  but hadnt made a final decision </p><p><span style="color: #0000ff"><b>he's jsut very skittish about bringing up raid dps any higher than it is and i countered with if he made our lesser used buffs like our  resist buffs and such  into short term  buffs we have to keep recasting to use  then we would have to choose between doing more dps or taking time to cast buffs thus balancing  the change and he recived that idea well</b> </span></p><p>> forth there will be some raid wide buff utility added WOOT </p><p>It will make the troubie more desired in raids, but they already are sought after. I don't see it increasing the joy of play, so I think the number of troubs will stay at the bottom.</p><p> This is accualy a confirmed myth </p><p><span style="color: #0000ff"><b>troubs are NOT i repeat NOT the least played class in fact were not even the second least played class eq2 census is quite misleading</b> </span></p><p>> fifth  EOF SETS       none of the exsisting sets will be altered at this > time .. HOWEVER  it is completely drilled into the head of the item and > spells guys NO DOVES SONG SET BONUSES on the new rok armor > /cheer for all   and all new armor will have  both STR  and INT  as > focus with an even spread of all other stats </p><p>Mixed news but on the positive side.</p><p><b><span style="color: #0000ff">at least we know that we will finaly get good set bonuses when it counts   its jstu taht with allt he focus on the new stuff there not fixing the old at this time but will probably look back on it in the distant future</span></b></p><p>> however they took intrest in teh idea of the power drains becoming > small power taps and giving us  a  small power transfer much like the > dirges heal only for power </p><p>Could be sweet.</p><p><span style="color: #0000ff"><b>i agree completely</b> </span></p><p>> and making some of our lesser used buffs into temporary  buffs ( possibly > raid wide)  giving us more activity  on raids  is a possibility</p><p>Buff-bot time I guess. </p><p><span style="color: #0000ff"><b>um this is a move away from buff bot status chief as it requires that u cast the buffs  as there timers come up etc this is exactly what raiding troubs have been asking for more active things to do durring a raid</b> </span></p><p>What's the bottom line? People like Spider who like the troubadour as it is, will like it even more. I am glad for them, and wish we had more of them in my guild. People like me who find the troubadour somewhat boring to play, will still think it's boring. We will be somewhat depressed, because we will assume that this is all the love we are going to get. We will finish leveling up our new mains, and only bring out our troubs when our guildies beg on raids. I wish no-one in my guild knew I have a 70 troub. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p><b><span style="color: #0000ff">teh bottom linme is that theres a lot of good int eh troub class  and it will only get better  so relax</span></b></p><p><img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>PS Spider - anything on Mezz changes? Or any CC in raid situations?</p></blockquote>nothing on mez sorry i missed that one 

[Spider]

<cite>Liljna wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please correct me if I'm wrong (which I probably am, hehe), but didn't we have power drain/taps when the game launched? I seem to remember that both bards could take from the enemy and give to themselves, the dirge could take life and the troubador could take power. But then again, this is so long ago, my memory is probably messed with <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p> we have one attack that gives us power and does damage </p><p>we have a debuff and an attack that destroy power</p><p>what this change would potentialy do is turn all our power reducing skills into taps </p><p>and we would  be able to then transfer power to a raid friend like a power version of the dirge heal</p>

[Cuz]

<cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote> <p>and making some of our lesser used buffs into temporary  buffs ( possibly raid wide)  giving us more activity  on raids  is a possibility </p> </blockquote>This is the second most awesome thing you've said. The first being you had fun of course. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Good work Spider, and thanks.

[Spider]

<cite>Cuz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote> <p>and making some of our lesser used buffs into temporary  buffs ( possibly raid wide)  giving us more activity  on raids  is a possibility </p> </blockquote>This is the second most awesome thing you've said. The first being you had fun of course. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Good work Spider, and thanks. </blockquote><p> hehe np bro i love the troub class so i went in and made SURE to fight hard for it </p><p>and belive me the spell/skill dev did try to duck questions after  the meetings several times but i was avid in tracking him down to get answers hehehhe</p><p>and the item dev was totaly cool and explained that prior to recent changes items were jsut made bu w/e dev that made them so thats how we ended up with things like not enuff int and dove song as a bonus </p><p>but int he future he will make sure NO DOVE SONG set bonuses !!!!!!!!!!! lol and proper stats on armor for both troubs and inquis lol </p>

[Jeger_Wulf]

<p>> This is accualy a confirmed myth <b>> troubs are NOT i repeat NOT the least played class in fact were not even the > </b><b>second least played class eq2 census is quite misleading</b> </p><p>Actually, Spider, I did that research myself. I went to the SoE site, and counted the number of levels 70s for each class. It was a pain, but troubies were least played. </p><p>> <b>um this is a move away from buff bot status chief as it requires that u cast the </b><b>> buffs  as there timers come up etc this is exactly what raiding troubs have been > asking for more active things to do durring a raid</b> </p><p>An actively cast buff is still a buff. IMO still a buff bot. All it means is you can't be an afk buff bot. I understand you may feel differently. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Thanks for all the info - sounds like you did a great job for us all.</p>

[Kyle]

Some good stuff it sounds like. But what about <b>INSTRUMENTS!!</b>

[Jeger_Wulf]

<p>I did the work again. I did not do all 24 classes, because it's time for bed. Here are the ones that have been least-played though:</p><p>from <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/</a></p><p>coercer 1940 troubadour 1962 illusionists 2229 brigand 2690 dirge 2747</p><p>Still fighting with coercers for least-played, but they are currently winning. (Unless a class I left out beats us.) </p>

[Spider]

<cite>Jeger_Wulf wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I did the work again. I did not do all 24 classes, because it's time for bed. Here are the ones that have been least-played though:</p><p>from <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/</a></p><p>coercer 1940 troubadour 1962 illusionists 2229 brigand 2690 dirge 2747</p><p>Still fighting with coercers for least-played, but they are currently winning. (Unless a class I left out beats us.) </p></blockquote><p>yes but cut out unplayed charcters under 20 and those numbers change dramaticaly </p>

[Cuz]

He;s only taking level 70s into account. Regardless, we should leave our issues with the troub at the door for this thread, god knows we have enough already. And yeah, anything about instruments?

[spector270]

<p>the troubie numbers are going to be misleading as many people have power leveled toons to level 70 to act as buff bots in raids.  so the number of active full time troubies will be even less.</p>

[roces9]

First off, way to go out there and ask the tough questions and take no prisoners. I may disagree with you Spider, but you got the job done this time. My general impression from your post is that the devs made vague references and hollow promises to you. When would these things happen? What do probably and might mean? Optimists would say that the Devs didn't want to get our hopes over anything because nothing is final untill it gets into the game. Pesamists might say that they were just giving you a song and dance so you would get off their backs. Whichever is the case, we got some good and some bad in there. Self buff: I really, really really hope they remove the conc slot for this. Not a top priority but everyone loves a free 200some int. PoTM: If they remove anything, I hope it would be the Daze. Dirges dont get dazed from CoB and it would make more people less hesitant to cast PoTM if they didn't have to give up a quarter of their own DPS. The root makes you think about when youre going to cast it and prevents some soloing/pvp balance. IMO I would much rather they remove the daze and keep the root. Raid wide buffs: Read my response to this in another thread, but this is a very bad idea if all they are going to do is make Brias, Arias, Alins etc into raid wide buff. It would totally eliminate the need to have two troubadors in a raid. If they are giving us temporary raid wide buffs like Jesters and PoTM then that's awesome. Charm: I agree with whoever said that their problem is with the cast and recast times of charm, not the duration. I've given up on using charm as a solo tactic but now use it as a very effective Crowd Control tactic. If I mez an add in a group, even with a hotbutton that sends a message in /g and uses a vocal emote, people that are not paying attention or just dont play with Mezzers often break it. With charm, no one can attack the mob for 14 seconds and they will quickly target the other mob instead. Keeps me from wasting my time on locking down mobs that people just awaken every time. The problem IS the cast/recast times. I can only use it once per fight, and most mobs get a few hits in before it lands. Reducre the cast/recast and I will be a very happy camper. Power taps: Cool idea as long as they don't turn it into our primary role. I don't care how active of a role it is, if they turn us into Mana batteries instead of buff bots, I will stop playing my Troub. But if its just one or two spells like JC or PoTM then I'll be happy. What about runspeed? What about soloability? What about Epic crowd control? The Devs may have cleared up a few things, but there are a lot of stupid things that the devs STILL refuse to comment on. All in all, Its a mixed bag... but its better than nothing.

[Jesters]

<p>wow gj spider getting out there for us...most of that is good news...although i still like that ddr idea ya had like a week or two ago lol...taht would keep us troubs busy every raid rofl..</p><p>and i wonder what they plan on doing to the self buff...</p><p> also something that drives me nuts in pvp is that our spell relfect puts us in combat =( drives me nuts but i just charm em and run..then gank them rather than the other way around rofl</p><p>btw..</p><p>>PoTM: If they remove anything, I hope it would be the Daze. Dirges dont get dazed from CoB and it would >make more people less hesitant to cast PoTM if they didn't have to give up a quarter of their own DPS. The >root makes you think about when youre going to cast it and prevents some soloing/pvp balance. IMO I >would much rather they remove the daze and keep the root. </p><p> if the dirges CoB dazed them wouldnt it be pointless? it doesnt proc on spells...they would be stifled not dazed..</p><p>anyways i dont mind casting and then getting all my debuffs off tbh it gets my dps up by almost 100 at lvl 64 so i would hope it does more at lvl 70 =) </p>

[Spider]

<cite>roces9 wrote:</cite><blockquote> What about runspeed? What about soloability? What about Epic crowd control? The Devs may have cleared up a few things, but there are a lot of stupid things that the devs STILL refuse to comment on. </blockquote><p> some of those things i only got to touch on lightly  and some im sorry i jsut plain forgot  ( forgive me im human and well its vegas they dont water the drinks <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) </p><p>but all in all i did the best i could and made sure they understood that first and foremost troubs are unhappy and want more  for the class </p>

[Jeger_Wulf]

<p>Spider: I'm negative about the class, and not too positive about the news you brought back. However, I don't want you to think I'm negative about what you've done. Thanks for the effort. /cheer</p><p> > All in all, Its a mixed bag... but its better than nothing. </p><p>When you get nothing, you can hope it's because they haven't gotten around to looking at the class. When some class changes come through and they don't seem to help much, it's much more disappointing than nothing, because you know that they looked at the class.</p><p>I'm still waiting to see what the EXACT changes are, but I'm waiting without any excitement.</p>

[Spider]

<cite>Jeger_Wulf wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Spider: I'm negative about the class, and not too positive about the news you brought back. However, I don't want you to think I'm negative about what you've done. Thanks for the effort. /cheer</p><p> > All in all, Its a mixed bag... but its better than nothing. </p><p>When you get nothing, you can hope it's because they haven't gotten around to looking at the class. When some class changes come through and they don't seem to help much, it's much more disappointing than nothing, because you know that they looked at the class.</p><p>I'm still waiting to see what the EXACT changes are, but I'm waiting without any excitement.</p></blockquote><p> well if it helps at all the spells/skills dev did say repeatedly with a big grin that troubs will be happy with some of the things coming there way </p><p>and he was warned about the consquences if were not like a mob of angry bards at his door </p>

[Jeger_Wulf]

<p>> well if it helps at all the spells/skills dev did say repeatedly with a big grin that troubs > will be happy with some of the things coming there way </p><p>It does help somewhat. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>My fear isn't that I think they don't care. My fear is they really don't understand what is happening. We will see.</p>

[Spider]

<cite>Jeger_Wulf wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>> well if it helps at all the spells/skills dev did say repeatedly with a big grin that troubs > will be happy with some of the things coming there way </p><p>It does help somewhat. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>My fear isn't that I think they don't care. My fear is they really don't understand what is happening. We will see.</p></blockquote>yeah he knows and cares but hes also a balnce freak and is realy cautios about maintaining raid balance so he will be tip toing into changes  because we offer so much to a raid  he doesnt want to jsut drop changes in  and totaly throw off raid balance ( which should make all u hardcore raiders happy)

[MadMikey]

I'm very new to trying out this class but sounds like you did a great job finding out some info <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[roces9]

/agree Jeger_Wolf Sometimes it feels like the Devs are stupid and/or just like seeing Troub suffer, but that just can't be true. They're Game Designers and you can assume that they like what they're doing and want everyone to be happy with their product. They have to be doing the things they do with some purpose and intent; and like everything in life sometimes actions have unforseeable consequences. The hardest thing for me as a Troubador is to get the image of the evil, "Mustache Curling" Dev tying a helpless woman to a traintrack in a crazy scheme to make more Troubs frustrated with their class. That's not what is going on and I really hope the Devs change some things in RoK.

[Bakinleaf]

<cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jeger_Wulf wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I did the work again. I did not do all 24 classes, because it's time for bed. Here are the ones that have been least-played though:</p><p>from <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/</a></p><p>coercer 1940 troubadour 1962 illusionists 2229 brigand 2690 dirge 2747</p><p>Still fighting with coercers for least-played, but they are currently winning. (Unless a class I left out beats us.) </p></blockquote><p>yes but cut out unplayed charcters under 20 and those numbers change dramaticaly </p></blockquote>Also take into account that since troubs aren't often played and are hard to find all the actual "buff-bot" alt's that hardcore raiding guilds will make, I do a /who all troub on my server at just about any given point in the day and I'll get a list of 5-12 people most all level 55+ and the same names, and mostly in raiding guilds ( breaking it down to probably 2-4 actual Troub mains and the rest just alts.) The mass of the troubs under 20 that aren't played or well evne 30 or 40 or even 50 are because they realized the shaft the class has been getting and gave up on it. All be it some find being a cool afk buff bot on raids fun, hell can get in some good T.V. shows and movies, a lot of players like to be really active and feel a part of it all, don't know how much of a part of it all I feel clicking Jesters cap and PotM over and over. The active temp buffs, I really like that idea, but how many? 2, 5, 10? and how useful? because they are now temp are they gonna have their bonus' increased?  They are gonna give us power taps, pretty cool, not that I ever really have a problem with power though to need it, but still cool, but to what end? one person comment mana feeds to other raid members like dirges have for health, but didn't see spider actually say this was the case, would be a nice add though. or armor, well Str and Int yes nice bonus, will somewhat increase our damage out put, but probably won't be note worthy. Charm yes, really needs to be changed, I would be mega happy if they lowered recover and recast so we could cast it every 10 or 12seconds, yes we could then keep a mob charm for a long time, barring resist, but we would have to keep casting it over and over somewhat like bards of EQ1 days, but it would certainly make suddenly a very nice asset, and give us something very dangerous but fun to do in groups and raids. Raid wide buffs really nice, but then again every class out there is gonna start yelling for them if we get them. Selo's, bards imho have been and always should be the fast thing in the game, and by that I mean they should be leaving the fastest horse in a cloud of dust, if that means making selo's a temp buff you have to recast every two minutes so be it as it should be a skill you can cast on the move, even if you have to cast it over again in less then two minutes(but best selos eq1 was little over 2min duration, with all the lower being 6secs) by all means I don't want eq1 bard casting back...I really, really like my fingers and wrist way to much for that, casting a buff every 2 or 5mins when running from point a to b really wouldn't bother me too much, it's a travel spell anyways I don't need to be running mega fast when I get there, and for the "kiting" soloer's well it just makes it a tad more complicated and risky. Over all troubs have been getting some dev hate for a while, and haven't really listened to us, mostly because well not many play troubs so it's not like a large number or voices are able to speak out and say CHANGE THIS! and it usually takes a ton of voices to cry that to get SoE to actually do some work and get away from their coffee mugs for a day. But despite it all, I will continue to hope for the best with RoK....oh boy am I hoping, but I'm really prepared for the worst./buff /target (insert group caster's name here), /follow, /afk..../gu someone call my cell if troub gear drops.

[Hem]

<cite>Jeger_Wulf wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I did the work again. I did not do all 24 classes, because it's time for bed. Here are the ones that have been least-played though:</p><p>from <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/</a></p><p>coercer 1940 troubadour 1962 illusionists 2229 brigand 2690 dirge 2747</p><p>Still fighting with coercers for least-played, but they are currently winning. (Unless a class I left out beats us.) </p></blockquote> I did a search on eq2players for lvl 70 characters on AB server: Assassin 151 Berzerker 218 Brigand 131 Bruiser 134 Coercer 94 Conjuror 225 Defiler 104 Dirge 121 Fury 300 Guardian 201 Illusionist 94 Inquisitor 122 Monk 181 Mystic 122 Necromancer 268 Paladin 201 Ranger 201 Shadowknight 197 Swashbuckler 153 Templar 221 Troubador 75 Warden 207 Warlock 159 Wizard 362 Or, ranging from most common to most rare: 1. Wizard 2. Fury 3. Necromancer 4. Conjuror 5. Templar 6. Berzerker 7. Warden 8. Guardian / Paladin / Ranger 11. Shadowknight 12. Monk 13. Warlock 14. Swashbuckler 15. Assassin 16. Bruiser 17. Brigand 18. Inquisitor / Mystic 20. Dirge 21. Defiler 22. Coercer / Illusionist 24. Troubador Troub is the rarest class, QED. On AB that is.

[Nembutal]

Thanks Spider

[Spider]

<cite>Nembutal wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thanks Spider</blockquote>np <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />