Shatter Infections

[lailoken]

<p>I was wondering if anyone knew how or if this spell works. I tried to test it in pvp the other day by casting it at the start of the fight then letting my group get to orange. But nothing happened not one thing was cured and I was wondering if anyone had any info.</p>

[Gwen]

You cast it on group, and the first group member under 50% HP got all its hostile effect cured (Then Shatter Infection goes off of all group members). Yeah, crap isnt it ?

[Fromingo]

<p>Yeah it is crap.   How about an end line ability that you cast cures and if nothing is cured then an icon of the appropriate cure stays on your target for 30 sec and applies a cure when something relevant lands.   basically a time delayed cure.  </p><p>Example I cast cure poison on my target.  Nothing was there to cure so a cure poison icon stayed on my target for 30 seconds.  17 seconds later a spider bites my target and he/she is poisoned.  The cure icon fires off a cure automatically and the poison is cured.  The icon goes away as it has expended it's 1 trigger.  </p><p> Being able to play smart and be proactive with my cures would make the cure line attractive to me!  <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Dallun]

<cite>Fromingo wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yeah it is crap.   How about an end line ability that you cast cures and if nothing is cured then an icon of the appropriate cure stays on your target for 30 sec and applies a cure when something relevant lands.   basically a time delayed cure.  </p><p>Example I cast cure poison on my target.  Nothing was there to cure so a cure poison icon stayed on my target for 30 seconds.  17 seconds later a spider bites my target and he/she is poisoned.  The cure icon fires off a cure automatically and the poison is cured.  The icon goes away as it has expended it's 1 trigger.  </p><p> Being able to play smart and be proactive with my cures would make the cure line attractive to me!  <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote>Heh, as much as I would love to see this happen it never will because it would break too many raid zones. Remember, there are a few debuff that mobs cast that are incredibly powerful (i.e. Invalidation) and to have what you suggest would trivialize that particular point. Other points would be to use this ability on the entire group for a particular upcomming stun or other debuff.  Remember that its not that a mob is hard by itself (Usually).  Its the effects it does to either the DPS or the Healers of a raid that normally make or break an encounter. Dallun / Fione 70 Warden / 70 Illusionist Antonia Bayle

[Skivley101]

<p>Its just that its situational like some of our other abilities & requires some fore knowledge of the up and comming nasty group dots. Or even those dots that turn your Tanks armour into paper.</p><p>Isnt what you described pretty much what the templar has for cure enhancement?   Fromingo</p>

[Fromingo]

<cite>Dallun wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Fromingo wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yeah it is crap.   How about an end line ability that you cast cures and if nothing is cured then an icon of the appropriate cure stays on your target for 30 sec and applies a cure when something relevant lands.   basically a time delayed cure.  </p><p>Example I cast cure poison on my target.  Nothing was there to cure so a cure poison icon stayed on my target for 30 seconds.  17 seconds later a spider bites my target and he/she is poisoned.  The cure icon fires off a cure automatically and the poison is cured.  The icon goes away as it has expended it's 1 trigger.  </p><p> Being able to play smart and be proactive with my cures would make the cure line attractive to me!  <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote>Heh, as much as I would love to see this happen it never will because it would break too many raid zones. Remember, there are a few debuff that mobs cast that are incredibly powerful (i.e. Invalidation) and to have what you suggest would trivialize that particular point. Other points would be to use this ability on the entire group for a particular upcomming stun or other debuff.  Remember that its not that a mob is hard by itself (Usually).  Its the effects it does to either the DPS or the Healers of a raid that normally make or break an encounter. Dallun / Fione 70 Warden / 70 Illusionist Antonia Bayle </blockquote><p>I'd disagree.  The effect would still hit it would just be cured quickly just as it would from a good healer.    Lets lower duration of my suggestion to 10 seconds.  Now the healer still has to be skilled to time it's use properly.   This is in return for spending like 21 AA on mostly useless cures because the cures with minor mitigation boost on 4 hits are still lame.   I think 21 AA for a 10 sec procactive cure is fair and does not trivialize a raid.   Besides Wardens still need Raid utility as theirs is pretty pathetic compared to other healers which is why usually only 1 warden is ever wanted on a raid. </p>

[Fromingo]

<cite>Skivley101 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Its just that its situational like some of our other abilities & requires some fore knowledge of the up and comming nasty group dots. Or even those dots that turn your Tanks armour into paper.</p><p>Isnt what you described pretty much what the templar has for cure enhancement?   Fromingo</p></blockquote><p> IIRC templars are a reactive heal tossed on their cures.  Which is actually cooler than our junk.  What I am proposing is more a reactive Cure not a heal.    </p><p>SOE could do it on the individual cures as well with each rank adding like 2 seconds to the duration for a 10 sec max duration.    Either way the warden would spend a ton of AA's for the ability and have some useful raid utility so that more than 1 warden is wanted on a raid.  The raid leader might say hmmm this fight lets have 2 wardens and 1 fury instead of 1 warden and 2 furies(I just used fury as an example, whatever your guild fields, ours has lots of inquis and furies so usually 2nd fur/inquis is chosen over 2nd warden).</p>

[Skivley101]

<cite>lailoken wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I was wondering if anyone knew how or if this spell works. I tried to test it in pvp the other day by casting it at the start of the fight then letting my group get to orange. But nothing happened not one thing was cured and I was wondering if anyone had any info.</p></blockquote><p> your timer ran out <img src="/smilies/0a4d7238daa496a758252d0a2b1a1384.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> .... said you cast it at the start of the fight ...  Idk    ***shrug***</p><p>maybe  was just a ~glitch~</p>

[Arielle Nightshade]

<cite>Skivley101 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>lailoken wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I was wondering if anyone knew how or if this spell works. I tried to test it in pvp the other day by casting it at the start of the fight then letting my group get to orange. But nothing happened not one thing was cured and I was wondering if anyone had any info.</p></blockquote><p> your timer ran out <img src="/smilies/0a4d7238daa496a758252d0a2b1a1384.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> .... said you cast it at the start of the fight ...  Idk    ***shrug***</p><p>maybe  was just a ~glitch~</p></blockquote>Skivley's being a smartie..but I think it was the other way around...the timer didn't run out, the fight didnt' last long enough for Shatter Infection to be effective.  PvP fights (save those nasty revive Zergers) don't last all that long. Shatter Infection is more raid fight useful ...if it worked.

[Skivley101]

Arielle Nightshade wrote: <blockquote><cite>Skivley101 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>lailoken wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I was wondering if anyone knew how or if this spell works. I tried to test it in pvp the other day by casting it at the start of the fight then letting my group get to orange. But nothing happened not one thing was cured and I was wondering if anyone had any info.</p></blockquote><p> your timer ran out <img src="/smilies/0a4d7238daa496a758252d0a2b1a1384.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> .... said you cast it at the start of the fight ...  Idk    ***shrug***</p><p>maybe  was just a ~glitch~</p></blockquote>Skivley's being a smartie..but I think it was the other way around...the timer didn't run out, the fight didnt' last long enough for Shatter Infection to be effective.  PvP fights (save those nasty revive Zergers) don't last all that long. Shatter Infection is more raid fight useful ...if it worked. </blockquote>no really .. I thougt that could have been the cause ...Im not sure what ya mean about the fight was to short ... if any group member brks the health% the trigger is used <img src="/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Arielle Nightshade]

<p>Oh, dang it.  I gave my smartie answer about your smartie answer w/o seeing that the OP said his group was in orange, and it still didn't work.</p><p>A specialty spell of ours not working???  No wai.</p>

[gita]

<cite>Fromingo wrote:</cite><blockquote>Skivley101 wrote: <p> IIRC templars are a reactive heal tossed on their cures.  Which is actually cooler than our junk.  What I am proposing is more a reactive Cure not a heal.   </p></blockquote> a reactive cure looks a bit imbalancing for raiding, i mean if i can spam that sort of "reactive" cures, fights like contested mayong or TNT mayong got all the fun out cause u can alone counter the Mayongs Touch (de-level debuff) Wath abouth something like Spores on the cures ?, the warden spore-cures ?  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Arielle Nightshade]

Gitana@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote><cite>Fromingo wrote:</cite><blockquote>Skivley101 wrote: <p>IIRC templars are a reactive heal tossed on their cures.  Which is actually cooler than our junk.  What I am proposing is more a reactive Cure not a heal.   </p></blockquote> a reactive cure looks a bit imbalancing for raiding, i mean if i can spam that sort of "reactive" cures, fights like contested mayong or TNT mayong got all the fun out cause u can alone counter the Mayongs Touch (de-level debuff) <b>Wath abouth something like Spores on the cures ?, the warden spore-cures ?  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </b> </blockquote>We'll add the Spore-Cure to the Forest of Terror Description....it will be instant, trigger 9 times (like a reactive) and cost no power.

[Fromingo]

Gitana@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote><cite>Fromingo wrote:</cite><blockquote>Skivley101 wrote: <p>IIRC templars are a reactive heal tossed on their cures.  Which is actually cooler than our junk.  What I am proposing is more a reactive Cure not a heal.   </p></blockquote> a reactive cure looks a bit imbalancing for raiding, i mean if i can spam that sort of "reactive" cures, fights like contested mayong or TNT mayong got all the fun out cause u can alone counter the Mayongs Touch (de-level debuff) </blockquote><p> It's not imbalancing now nor would it take fun out of raids.   Right now all you do for Mayong's touch is have it on a timer and spam the cures just before it hits.   And it would not be you alone  most likely at least 2 wardens or 1 warden and 1-2 other healers spamming cures would be wanted since timers can be off.    So it's not a huge thing it just frees up 1-2 healers from having to spam cures as well and makes Wardens more desired.  </p>

[Dallun]

Forgive me Fromingo for not understanding your position, but I don't see how we would need other healers to cure if one has a reactive cure up at all times. Currently mobs do not throw enough debuffs to offset what you describe.  Often they only throw the really nasty ones that need to be cured "right then". Therefore having a predetermined cure up and ready means that the effect would not stay on the target... well... at all.  It would behave like a templar's reactive in that if it didn't kill you when it hit, its gone.  Basically its an ability that would totally break the dynamics of raids IMO and I can't see it ever happening. Dallun / Fione 70 Warden / 70 Illusionist Antonia Bayle

[Fromingo]

<p>First no single warden could have premptive cures on everyone all at once so lets not overstate how no other healers would be needed to Cure.  With a 10 sec duration at most a warden could prob keep 1 group pre-cured and that's with no lag and perfect AE timing plus constant spamming of cures.  2nd the effect will still go off, it will just cure about as quickly as if some warden had cast cure as fast as they could, basically it casts cure on it's own.  </p><p>What I envision it's useful applicating being, is use it to put it on the right healer class with the group cure needed at the time.   For example lets say we're going to get smacked with with an AE magic stun/stifle.  The raid leader calls out that it's about to hit,  the warden puts it on the cleric.  Group gets smacked.   1 sec later Cleric is free'd up and casting his group cure.   Now let me stop people before they say "OMG that will trivialize raids!"  currently that same cleric (or other healer in group) just uses a self stun/stifle break spell (I know inquis can and other healers can as well including the right AA spec Warden), or the they potions or various other items including cheap to buy status items, or we just have a mage/healer that's OOR/didn't get hit, cast cure on the cleric.   Therefore because there are other ways to achieve this desired effect it's not some super powerful ability and the warden is spending lots of AA (probably 21 if they make it an end ability) to get this little bit of raid utility.  </p><p>Currently wardens really are only desired for MT groups or to fill out heal spaces if no other healers are available, which is rare in most raid guilds (casual guilds usually just take whatever they can get so you might see 2-3 wardens).  </p><p>It's not overpowering, it's thinking outside the box and a different approach to make a useless AA line useful and give wardens a bit more raid desirability.  </p>

[Arielle Nightshade]

<p>A reactive doesn't last indefinitely...even if unused.  Templar cures are 2 triggers - and the 2nd one isn't always available when needed.  And THAT is only if AA spec'd.    When raid healing as a Templar, one doesn't always have time to spam cures...because heal timers are refreshing slowly.  You usually have to cast a heal or reactive heal instead.  </p><p>So everyone having ability to cure is useful....if they have small power costs, I think the only thing wasted is casting time - to ensure at least SOME cure is on whomever needs it.</p>

[Fromingo]

I must be tired because I'm not sure what point Arielle is trying to get accross.  <img src="/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Arielle Nightshade]

<p>My post replies to Dallun's....who was the last poster when I originally posted (LOL).   I was too lazy to quote him, and you posted the split second before I did (I think)...making mine look like it was answering yours.  </p><p>::breath:::</p><p>So...my reply comments Dallun's.  </p>

[Skivley101]

<cite>Fromingo wrote:</cite><blockquote>I must be tired because I'm not sure what point Arielle is trying to get accross.  <img src="/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote><p> Well im with ya on the tired part Fromingo ... But isnt shatter infection the only cure that works like your saying allready ?</p><p>I know it triggers from health % and not if a dot is put on ... but i think thats a good thing , so you dont go wasteing the trigger on one of those scare tactic dots.</p><p>I see 3 senarios where this is very usefull</p><p>1- the big nasty dot that gets everybodys health down in the yellow.</p><p>2- the debilitating dot that turns the tanks armour into paper.</p><p>3- the dot that some one else gets hit with (includeing your self) and they start to die, but you dont want to switch target cuz the tank still needs some healing.</p><p>Ya other than those 3 its rather useless ...but i would say those are all key points in a raid. And they would require some foreknowledge on when to use it ... just like Tortiseshell.</p>

[Bladesss]

<p>But my question is, does it work at all.</p><p>1. fighting the intro mobs in CWM. I cast "shattered". The mobs put an arcane effect on 3 ppl in my group including the MT (its a mana drain i think). The mobs pound the tank down to about 40%. I watch for the arcane effect to cure, while i cure it on the other ppl. Nothing happenes, so i have to cure it myself. </p><p>2). Deeper in CWM, fighting the Mad. I cast "shattered", 10 sec before Mad is suppose to AE. Mad then AE's injuring several ppl to about 60%, one down to about 35%. I watch and the arcane effect is not cured, so I have to target him and cure it.</p><p> 3) Fighting the Werewolf in FTH. I cast "Shattered" on pull. About 30 sec later the Werewolf summons a scout, and puts his fear/damage DOT on him, which puts him to about 30%, no one else has the DOT, but the tank is being hurt by melee. I am healing the MT, but i watch the DOT tick him down to 15%, then tick and kill him. </p><p>In the first case, the arcane does not do damage, but that should not effect it. In the second case, maybe i did not wait long enough, but i waited 4-5 seconds. In the 3rd case, the tank was also below 50%, but did not have an effect of him. Also the 3rd case is a fear, the scout is summoned to the Werewolf in range, but sometimes the fear then causes the target to run out of heal range. If "Shattered" delays 2-3 sec before it checks, the scout then might have run out of range.  </p><p>So in 3 cases out of 3 since i respects to try the cure line, when I think Shattered should have worked, it did not, and I have never seen actually do anything. </p><p>Talonstrike</p>

[Skivley101]

Well i just did a respect to this ability ... Not sure if i missed it working or timer ran out ...only tried it on the Crab X2 so far ... I will be keeping an eye out too , so we can find out if its broke <img src="/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> by popular concensus

[Bladesss]

<p>I am not sure that Shatter is suppose to work on the crab. The crab has a cold AE that hits for pretty good damage, but I don't remember a DOT that needed curing after the AE hit. </p><p>Talonstrike</p>

[Skivley101]

<cite>Bladesss wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I am not sure that Shatter is suppose to work on the crab. The crab has a cold AE that hits for pretty good damage, but I don't remember a DOT that needed curing after the AE hit. </p><p>Talonstrike</p></blockquote> Well ya was just a trauma or somthin on 2 of the group members ...seems like i had it up at the time and atleast one of them hit their hp% trigger. But it was a little chaotic at the time and i wasnt gona wait around and see if it worked sorta thing. So Ya ... ill have to watch some more testing on it for sure....  Shouldve checked the logs i guess ...

[gita]

well on x2 crab wath really works well its the Cold/Heat ward, if u time it correctly can outheal the shaman <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> cheating wards  <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Fromingo]

<cite>Skivley101 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well im with ya on the tired part Fromingo ... But isnt shatter infection the only cure that works like your saying allready ? <p>I know it triggers from health % and not if a dot is put on ... but i think thats a good thing , so you dont go wasteing the trigger on one of those scare tactic dots.</p></blockquote> <p>It's only like it in that it triggers on it's own but otherwise it's not like what I am suggesting and it's not very useful.   It might be somewhat useful on raids for the MT but even then I'd rather just use tranquility because I can do a super heal from curing all those dots when the MT is below 50%.    So really I would never pick shatter infections the way it is because it's dangerous, of limited use and it negates one of our most useful spells: Tranquility.  I supposed it might be useful when tranquility is down but seriously if that many dots are landing on your tank that quickly then your raid healers are already spamming cures and heals so even then it may never fire. </p><p>It's only a waste of triggers for the unskilled Warden.   I'm never an opponent of things that make a player have to think and build some skills.  </p><p>Also my intent is to give the warden more raid usefulness especially now that we took a hit from the aggro changes.   (Currently our raid force would rather roll with 3 hate transfer/boost classes in MT group, for all the trash in zones, which means the warden sits out until the big fights.  YAY SOE for their nerfs, which they do not test properly to see how they impact the game!)    </p><p>So since warden was already only really wanted for MT groups, or to fill in if other healers were not available, and since agro nerfs have made us even less wanted because our heals were never really needed for trash mobs, we wardens need more raid attractiveness than ever.</p><p>This means I'd really I'd like to see some changes to our AA's to make some attractive raid utility like my proactive cure idea above.    I'd also like to see Primeval Instinct become group-wide, without dropping the warden's personal offensive skill at all.   And while I was never on the strength buff bandwagon before the aggro nerf makes me think we need every tasty tidbit we can get so adding a moderate strength buff to our group wide Primeval Instinct would be useful as well.  </p><p>P.S.  Now I understand Arielle.  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Arielle Nightshade]

<cite>Fromingo wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>P.S.  Now I understand Arielle.  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote> Thank you!  /bursts into tears of gratitude

[Fromingo]

Arielle Nightshade wrote: <blockquote><cite>Fromingo wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>P.S.  Now I understand Arielle.  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote> Thank you!  /bursts into tears of gratitude</blockquote> hah! <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Fromingo]

Another idea for the cure line would be to give it a regen like quality when you put points into each cure.   I.E. you cast it and it cures as normal plus it adds an icon that cures again every 2 seconds for 3 ticks at level 1 AA.  The initial point gives it the 3 ticks and each level thereafter adds a tick so 5 levels would be 7 ticks total.    Totally scrap the +mitigation thing for 3 hits that is lame.

[Arielle Nightshade]

<cite>Fromingo wrote:</cite><blockquote>Another idea for the cure line would be to give it a regen like quality when you put points into each cure.   I.E. you cast it and it cures as normal plus it adds an icon that cures again every 2 seconds for 3 ticks at level 1 AA.  The initial point gives it the 3 ticks and each level thereafter adds a tick so 5 levels would be 7 ticks total.    Totally scrap the +mitigation thing for 3 hits that is lame.</blockquote>It would be nice if you actually saw it work...but as coded now - agreed.  Lame.

[GinFan]

<cite>Fromingo wrote:</cite><blockquote>Another idea for the cure line would be to give it a regen like quality when you put points into each cure.   I.E. you cast it and it cures as normal plus it adds an icon that cures again every 2 seconds for 3 ticks at level 1 AA.  The initial point gives it the 3 ticks and each level thereafter adds a tick so 5 levels would be 7 ticks total.    Totally scrap the +mitigation thing for 3 hits that is lame.</blockquote><p>That's a fun idea.  Since this thread has kinda turned into a what should the cure line do, I'll jump right in with my personal Warden AA line slant.<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Let's face it, Warden AA's suck.  If I were in charge our AAs, they would look more like the following: (I'm sure not everyone will agree since I'm anti-melee Warden, I'm primarily concerned with raiding and I could care less about PvP balance). </p><p>Movement: No change except that Nature's Walk would do something.  I would make it decrease my group's stun, stifle, slow durations by 50%.</p><p>Wardens: I would get rid of this CA bologna and have these lines augment our ACTUAL skills, making our personal nukes on par with a Fury instead of making us a ridiculous leather wearing rendition of a Battle Cleric.  Furies and Wardens would be differentiated by buffs, rather than by buffs, lack of DPS and DPS type.</p><p>Renewal:  Screw 2 triggers, that's for the birds.  If I put enough points into this line to get to the end ability, I'd like to see Reformation keep these skills at a single trigger, but increase the heal component to 25% of target's life, then it would actually be an "emergency" spell.  </p><p>Remedies: Everyone was unhappy with the 3 trigger change, especially since except for a few unintended situations these augmentations had little value (triggers are now supposed to say 4 now, but mine still say 3).  Rather than arguing for it to go back to a minute, I would rather see a small cast speed and power cost decrease for each point spent.  Like others here, I suspect that Shatter Infection does not work as intended... I would make it an auto-cast version of Tranquity without timer conflict, i.e. if the target drops below 60% it is an auto heal to the same amount as Tranq.  If the target drops below 60% in need of curing, one of each type is removed with a heal component.  This would be very powerful, so I would increase the timer.</p><p>Remember you can only have 2 of the 4, so this would not overpower a Warden, but instead give us added utility and equality with other raid healers.  </p><p>Oh and I'd make Primal Instinct half as powerful but group wide ( I had to beat that drum again) and change Sacred Grove to a heal instead of a pet (it's fun to plant a tree every once in a while so I'd make that a level 75 fun spell). </p>

[Arielle Nightshade]

<p>/wild applause</p><p>well said..exactly.   I'm not anti-melee warden at all, I'd just like the stuff that ISN'T melee to actually work - or be worth having.  100 AA points is a lot of effort for some of the return we see.</p>

[xandez]

<p>GinFan, you wrote:</p><p><i>"Wardens: I would get rid of this CA bologna and have these lines augment our ACTUAL skills, making our personal nukes on par with a Fury instead of making us a ridiculous leather wearing rendition of a Battle Cleric.  Furies and Wardens would be differentiated by buffs, rather than by buffs, lack of DPS and DPS type."</i></p><p>There are actually ppl in this game who like this "CA bologna" very much (like me) and think that this is maybe the best thing what happened to wardens regarding the warden AA tree. Of course if you dont like to melee, then you're pretty much shafted, i agree on that.</p><p>Why not make em so, that they would give you the CA:s AND enhance both your actual spells and the CA:s? That would be a win-win situation for both melee/nuking wardens and would up our DPS compared to furies.</p><p>Also, the fury buffs... yes, give us something similar types too. I think its ok that we buff WIS and they buff INT (still, INT >> WIS) but we would indeed need something new for our buffs... defensive aspect vs. the furies offensive? (this has been brought up earlier in some other threads too)</p><p>Ohwell, my whole post was quite offtopic, sry bout that, just had to comment something <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>++Xan</p>

[Keera]

<cite>GinFan wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Wardens: I would get rid of this CA bologna and have these lines augment our ACTUAL skills</p></blockquote><p>CA bologna! Love it! <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> (My take on the melee warden is... if I want to melee I play a scout or fighter, melee wasn't what i signed up for when I rolled my warden almost 3 years ago, and I find it annoying that it seems to be one of the only valid options, still refuse to go that way ... but I know that's a big controversy and everyone has a different take on that one) </p><p>So, Yup, I couldn't agree more with the above, those would be awesome changes!  /crosses fingers and hopes a dev will read this and go <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8f7fb9dd46fb8ef86f81154a4feaada9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[GinFan]

<cite>xandez wrote:</cite><blockquote>There are actually ppl in this game who like this "CA bologna" very much (like me) and think that this is maybe the best thing what happened to wardens regarding the warden AA tree. Of course if you dont like to melee, then you're pretty much shafted, i agree on that. <p>Why not make em so, that they would give you the CA:s AND enhance both your actual spells and the CA:s? That would be a win-win situation for both melee/nuking wardens and would up our DPS compared to furies...</p></blockquote><p>Sorry Xan, I hope you didn't feel I was insulting your play style.  Melee is fun, and I did give it a go, but my stand is that it isn't what I signed up for when I leveled to 70/50 prior to EoF.  Though it is purely opinion, I think melee specs belong with plate healers, not leather healers.  I very much dislike the implementation, having to spend half my Warden AA's to replace my master spells--if they were on separate timers, or augmented my casting choices as you suggested, perhaps I wouldn't dislike the option as much as I do.     </p>

[Fromingo]

I am sorry but melee warden is all that keeps me playing EQ2.   And I DID sign up to be a melee priest when EQ2 first released.  It was called a Fury and if you did not know Fury had soooo many melee procs back then that I could strip aggro from any tank except a zerker on pure melee alone.    They nerfed that Fury build to become a pure nuker and I switched to a dirge but they nerfed/ignored that class to death so when melee warden line came out that was my last life raft in this game.   Since I know dozens of melee priests who think melee brought new life to their play I would have to think I am not alone.    If you want to be a nuker choose the int druid line or betray to a fury but melee warden line can't go anywhere if SOE has half a brain, and since they gave every class type a melee available version I am guessing they realize that fact.BTW since you are primarily concerned with raiding you should know that I am in a high end raid guild that's downed everything but AOM (that lumberjack will go down next spawn).  Every priest in our guild, who has a melee line, went down it.   EVERY ONE.    We now can do our healer job and help our guild kick out high DPS (up to 90+K on orange X4 TTR trash mobs now).  And we're much more consistant with our ability to have high heal and DPS parses than nuker priests like Templar and Defiler,  only Fury can hang with melee priests on both DPS and heavy healing at same time.    Melee does <b>not </b>mean anti-raid.

[MullenSkywatcher]

Judging the melee line for wardens is tough for me.  I'm currently specialized that way, although I don't raid with my warden anymore.  I'm not sure if the melee line is really that good on its own, or just looks fantastic compared to the horror that is the other EoF lines.  It's certainly the only line with any synergy with a KOS line (STR).  There's nothing wrong with wanting to stay a ranged nuking warden, but the only bone tossed your way is the INT stats on the EOF armor.  That's it.Since a lot of us were already 70/50 when EOF came out, its hard to visualize how uber the melee line is when you are starting a warden from scratch.  I would definitely go that line first if I had to do my warden over again.

[GinFan]

<cite>Fromingo wrote:</cite><blockquote>BTW since you are primarily concerned with raiding you should know that I am in a high end raid guild that's downed everything but AOM (that lumberjack will go down next spawn).  Every priest in our guild, who has a melee line, went down it.   EVERY ONE.    We now can do our healer job and help our guild kick out high DPS (up to 90+K on orange X4 TTR trash mobs now).  And we're much more consistant with our ability to have high heal and DPS parses than nuker priests like Templar and Defiler,  only Fury can hang with melee priests on both DPS and heavy healing at same time.    Melee does <b>not </b>mean anti-raid. </blockquote><p>I did NOT say melee was "anti-raid," I simply stated that it wasn't what a Warden was when I leveled to 70.  I stated an opinion that I think a Warden should be able to nuke on par with a Fury sans buffs.  Thanks to the Warden dps aa line, as it stands now, if I want to reach my dps potential I MUST change to a melee Warden or betray to Fury, and I think THAT SUCKS.  A lot of folks, quality players, do like the melee option, I tried it, I prefer the nuke route--this doesn't mean I can't raid.  I maintain that if you are focused on melee positioning, you are splitting attention away from curing and multi-group spot healing, some things we do very well.  Combine this with our equipment options, and I've decided to go AGI/INT lines instead.  On a side note, imo, leather wearing melee without increased always on avoidence is not equal to a plate or chain wearing melee (all things being equal of course... unfortunately they are not).  </p>

[MullenSkywatcher]

<cite>GinFan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Fromingo wrote:</cite><blockquote>BTW since you are primarily concerned with raiding you should know that I am in a high end raid guild that's downed everything but AOM (that lumberjack will go down next spawn).  Every priest in our guild, who has a melee line, went down it.   EVERY ONE.    We now can do our healer job and help our guild kick out high DPS (up to 90+K on orange X4 TTR trash mobs now).  And we're much more consistant with our ability to have high heal and DPS parses than nuker priests like Templar and Defiler,  only Fury can hang with melee priests on both DPS and heavy healing at same time.    Melee does <b>not </b>mean anti-raid. </blockquote><p>I did NOT say melee was "anti-raid," I simply stated that it wasn't what a Warden was when I leveled to 70.  I stated an opinion that I think a Warden should be able to nuke on par with a Fury sans buffs.  Thanks to the Warden dps aa line, as it stands now, if I want to reach my dps potential I MUST change to a melee Warden or betray to Fury, and I think THAT SUCKS.  A lot of folks, quality players, do like the melee option, I tried it, I prefer the nuke route--this doesn't mean I can't raid.  I maintain that if you are focused on melee positioning, you are splitting attention away from curing and multi-group spot healing, some things we do very well.  Combine this with our equipment options, and I've decided to go AGI/INT lines instead.  On a side note, imo, leather wearing melee without increased always on avoidence is not equal to a plate or chain wearing melee (all things being equal of course... unfortunately they are not).  </p></blockquote>I agree with you that the focus on melee takes away from the nuking aspect of the warden.  I disagree that going melee adversely affects any healing or curing abilities.  If the MT doesn't lock down the mob, 99.9% of the time you are dead anyway, so getting in position isnt really hard, and the faster cast on the combat arts vs nukes means you are better prepared to cure or spot heal, since you are taking less time to dump your combat arts, and you dont have to interrupt them to react to an damage spike or insta-cure situation since they all have a .5 sec cast time.The mitigation isnt a question, since we can self buff it, boost it with AAs, and no healer can tank a non trivial epic anyway.That being said, I have been bothered by the melee aspect as well since I grew up also with a ranged nuking concept of the warden, which seems to have been abandoned.  I've posted before about the scattered nature of Warden AAs, toss out the EoF cure line completely and put in Nuke boosters and give wardens a choice on whether to go melee or ranged, and I'd be much happier.

[xandez]

<cite>GinFan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>xandez wrote:</cite><blockquote>There are actually ppl in this game who like this "CA bologna" very much (like me) and think that this is maybe the best thing what happened to wardens regarding the warden AA tree. Of course if you dont like to melee, then you're pretty much shafted, i agree on that. <p>Why not make em so, that they would give you the CA:s AND enhance both your actual spells and the CA:s? That would be a win-win situation for both melee/nuking wardens and would up our DPS compared to furies...</p></blockquote><p>Sorry Xan, I hope you didn't feel I was insulting your play style.  Melee is fun, and I did give it a go, but my stand is that it isn't what I signed up for when I leveled to 70/50 prior to EoF.  Though it is purely opinion, I think melee specs belong with plate healers, not leather healers.  I very much dislike the implementation, having to spend half my Warden AA's to replace my master spells--if they were on separate timers, or augmented my casting choices as you suggested, perhaps I wouldn't dislike the option as much as I do.     </p></blockquote><p>No need to be sry, no offense taken <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Yes its fun and i totally see your point since i too started my char before the EoF came. And i liked the warden class even before the changes, guess how much i liked it after EoF <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Hmm separate timers wouldnt bee too bad either... but i like augmentation idea more (if cannot get both that is) since that gives the melee wardens also upgrade <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />++Xan</p>

[Fromingo]

Believe me I wish melee line had been under Fury because Fury used to be melee, so I can totally see where you're coming from.  My play style was scrapped and given to wardens your play style was given to Furies.   What can I say SOE loves to F' with it's players heh.But back on topic (or sort of) lets make things like the cure line and shatter infections useful. 

[GinFan]

<cite>MullenSkywatcher wrote:</cite><blockquote>...  I disagree that going melee adversely affects any healing or curing abilities.  If the MT doesn't lock down the mob, 99.9% of the time you are dead anyway, so getting in position isnt really hard, and the faster cast on the combat arts vs nukes means you are better prepared to cure or spot heal, since you are taking less time to dump your combat arts, and you dont have to interrupt them to react to an damage spike or insta-cure situation since they all have a .5 sec cast time.</blockquote><p>Though positioning is always important, my experience was that with melee focus, positioning became so important, that healing and curing, while still quality, wasn't as spot-on.  Perhaps my twitch reflexes while multi-tasking isn't what it used to be <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but I can give a few examples other than when the MT losses agro.  When fighting a multiple monster encounter, the melee warden often needs to move to each to stay within range, and when I'm moving, I'm not healing or curing.  Similarly, jousting becomes more critical, and joust time is non-heal cure time.  We don't do contested, but pretty much everything else in the game, and on a lot of the hardest mobs we face, there are good reasons for keeping healers at range, removing our primary dps option.  Lastly, I need to remind my necro friends with their range extenders to step up when hurt or life-burning, or else I need to move out of melee range to heal them.    </p><p>Don't get me wrong, I'm one of the first healers in to whack a monster with my big orange hammer inbetween nukes, heals and cures; these issues affect all healers, but they have a larger impact, in my opinion, when melee becomes our DPS focus.  With a ranged focus I don't lose almost all my dps, if I need to sacrifice position for a few moments for casting, range, jousting and/or strat purposes.</p><p>Side note: Fromingo...  thanks for the response, I totaly get where you are coming from <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Fromingo]

I never really worry about position.  If it's multiple trash mob encounters they are just all piled up on the MT so I just jump in that pile and swing my hammer.   For hard named/boss types some you can melee easily, others require jousting or just staying out all together (the ones that require you not hit at all will effect nukers too).  However even the joust ones lower nuke healer class DPS, not as much as melee but enough to where the DPS difference isn't shattering.  Plus if you have the masters, and with warden gear giving so much int, you can still nuke from a distance when you can't melee.   I know a few wardens that go Str/Int line for both the melee boost and the nuke/infusion boost.  Those specced wardens do the most DPS and I am tempted to do it myself.

[GinFan]

<cite>Fromingo wrote:</cite><blockquote>I know a few wardens that go Str/Int line for both the melee boost and the nuke/infusion boost.  Those specced wardens do the most DPS and I am tempted to do it myself.</blockquote>I have been tempted as well, but my raid leader would scream if I couldn't tortiose shell lol.  That and I really don't think I want to slow down my regens to once every 2 seconds... conmbined, it seems like a lot to give up.

[GinFan]

<p>This was a good conversation before I helped derail it <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  Anybody confirm if Shattered is working correctly?  I cast it assuming that it does work, but then I've never actually seen it do it's business.</p><p><cite>Bladesss wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But my question is, does it work at all.</p><p>1. fighting the intro mobs in CWM. I cast "shattered". The mobs put an arcane effect on 3 ppl in my group including the MT (its a mana drain i think). The mobs pound the tank down to about 40%. I watch for the arcane effect to cure, while i cure it on the other ppl. Nothing happenes, so i have to cure it myself.  <span style="color: #0000ff;"><b>Sounds broken to me</b></span></p><p>2). Deeper in CWM, fighting the Mad. I cast "shattered", 10 sec before Mad is suppose to AE. Mad then AE's injuring several ppl to about 60%, one down to about 35%. I watch and the arcane effect is not cured, so I have to target him and cure it. <span style="color: #0000ff;"><b>Sounds broken to me</b></span></p><p> 3) Fighting the Werewolf in FTH. I cast "Shattered" on pull. About 30 sec later the Werewolf summons a scout, and puts his fear/damage DOT on him, which puts him to about 30%, no one else has the DOT, but the tank is being hurt by melee. I am healing the MT, but i watch the DOT tick him down to 15%, then tick and kill him.  <span style="color: #0000ff;"><b>Is it possible that this was a case of it working?  Below you said the tank was also below 50%... perhaps the reason he did not have the DOT was that he was auto-cured, which would also explain why the scout didn't get the auto-cure.  Does anyone know if we get a cure message when Shattered is effective?</b></span></p><p>In the first case, the arcane does not do damage, but that should not effect it. In the second case, maybe i did not wait long enough, but i waited 4-5 seconds. In the 3rd case, the tank was also below 50%, but did not have an effect of him. Also the 3rd case is a fear, the scout is summoned to the Werewolf in range, but sometimes the fear then causes the target to run out of heal range. If "Shattered" delays 2-3 sec before it checks, the scout then might have run out of range.  </p><p>So in 3 cases out of 3 since i respects to try the cure line, when I think Shattered should have worked, it did not, and I have never seen actually do anything. </p><p>Talonstrike</p></blockquote>