Dark Elf Ranger will I lose it ....

[CRooKeDCoP]

Hi there , I played back in 2004 for maybe 2 months.  I stopped playing games for quite a bit.  I just recently picked up EQ2 again and noticed alot of changes.  Game seems alot better but the one thing I noticed was the way you choose your classes now. I made my 1st char when you could only chose one of the four main lines and it branches out from there.  Further more they had the option for you to do a faction quest so that ANY race can be ANY class.  I noticed now that there are restrictions as to what races can be certain classes.  Does that mean that the Dark Elf Ranger that I made back in the day will be forced to be something else ? Thanks in Advance.

[Norrsken]

<cite>CRooKeDCoP wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi there , I played back in 2004 for maybe 2 months.  I stopped playing games for quite a bit.  I just recently picked up EQ2 again and noticed alot of changes.  Game seems alot better but the one thing I noticed was the way you choose your classes now. I made my 1st char when you could only chose one of the four main lines and it branches out from there.  Further more they had the option for you to do a faction quest so that ANY race can be ANY class.  I noticed now that there are restrictions as to what races can be certain classes.  Does that mean that the Dark Elf Ranger that I made back in the day will be forced to be something else ? Thanks in Advance. </blockquote>nopes, he will still be a DE ranger. you can still betray your faction.

[Jrral]

<cite>CRooKeDCoP wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi there , I played back in 2004 for maybe 2 months.  I stopped playing games for quite a bit.  I just recently picked up EQ2 again and noticed alot of changes.  Game seems alot better but the one thing I noticed was the way you choose your classes now. I made my 1st char when you could only chose one of the four main lines and it branches out from there.  Further more they had the option for you to do a faction quest so that ANY race can be ANY class.  I noticed now that there are restrictions as to what races can be certain classes.  Does that mean that the Dark Elf Ranger that I made back in the day will be forced to be something else ? Thanks in Advance. </blockquote>It's based on alignment. Dark Elves are evil, so they now start in Freeport. Rangers are good-aligned only, so nobody from Freeport can be a Ranger. Betrayal then comes into the picture. You can take a Dark Elf and start as an assassin, betray over to Qeynos and become a Ranger and you're golden. So a Dark Elf can be a Ranger, but he has to betray over to Qeynos to do it. I'm not sure how an old character like that would be handled, but it should be handled in some way. Note that Betrayal doesn't allow unlimited class changes. Classes are paired, eg, Guardian/Berserker or Ranger/Assassin or Paladin/Shadowknight, and betrayal only allows you to switch between the classes in your pair (or requires it, in the case of pairs like Ranger/Assassin where the classes aren't neutral (able to start in either city)).

[CRooKeDCoP]

Thanks guys.  Yah she is already a ranger I did the quest when the game 1st was released.  Got it done a week after release if I remember correctly.  I had just gotten level 20 and earned the Ranger class.  Then I quit playing. Thanks again fer the info.

[Wingrider01]

<cite>CRooKeDCoP wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thanks guys.  Yah she is already a ranger I did the quest when the game 1st was released.  Got it done a week after release if I remember correctly.  I had just gotten level 20 and earned the Ranger class.  Then I quit playing. Thanks again fer the info. </blockquote> Might want to check that, don't ever remember a dark elf being able to select ranger at level 20 unless they betrayed and you do not mention that you did so. dark Elf has always been a evil character, ranger has always been a good class

[FireDragon]

Just be sure to get ahold of dual wield scimitars and you'll be dandy.

[Calris]

<cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>CRooKeDCoP wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thanks guys.  Yah she is already a ranger I did the quest when the game 1st was released.  Got it done a week after release if I remember correctly.  I had just gotten level 20 and earned the Ranger class.  Then I quit playing. Thanks again fer the info. </blockquote> Might want to check that, don't ever remember a dark elf being able to select ranger at level 20 unless they betrayed and you do not mention that you did so. dark Elf has always been a evil character, ranger has always been a good class</blockquote> Well, considering he said he'd done the betrayal quest....

[Siogai]

If its as early as they said, I don't believe you had to betray.... you just built it from the floor up. Regardless, if they've done the FP-> Qeynos Betrayal, they're a DE Ranger.  If not, she's an Assassin, and will need to Betray to be a Ranger.

[Iseabeil]

<cite>Siogai wrote:</cite><blockquote>If its as early as they said, I don't believe you had to betray.... you just built it from the floor up. Regardless, if they've done the FP-> Qeynos Betrayal, they're a DE Ranger.  If not, she's an Assassin, and will need to Betray to be a Ranger. </blockquote><p>Betrayal has always existed, and a character in freeport has never been able to be a good class. Before betrayal changes, you had to betray well before level 20 or you missed the chance, so if he made it to 'become' a ranger it means he had to start and finish betrayal as you were level locked when starting betrayal and should thereby be safe and sound in Qeynos. </p>

[Hollywood]

Kazaris@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Just be sure to get ahold of dual wield scimitars and you'll be dandy. </blockquote> [Removed for Content]

[Packet]

Heh, a Dark Elf Ranger?  What's next...a High Elf Shadowknight?  Dark Elf Paladin?  A Troll Bard?  A Ogre wizard? Oh wait yeah, they ARE "next" already!  We already got those....to hell with tradition and RPing.  Political correctness has come to the EQ universe!! <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  

[ke'la]

<cite>Packet wrote:</cite><blockquote>Heh, a Dark Elf Ranger?  What's next...a High Elf Shadowknight?  Dark Elf Paladin?  A Troll Bard?  A Ogre wizard? Oh wait yeah, they ARE "next" already!  We already got those....to hell with tradition and RPing.  Political correctness has come to the EQ universe!! <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   </blockquote><p> Yeah, giving players options and allowing them to do what they want with their toon is a very bad thing /sarcasim_off</p><p>Um, your one bad RPer if you can't come up with atleast 10 valid RP reasons for someone to turn from Evil to Good or visa versa. Hell LUCAN DID IT you know the guy on the cover art that is incharge of Freeport, He started out as a Paladin.</p>

[Igu]

<p>It was fun playing with Lucan and the west/east freeport guards in the old days.</p><p>My monk would walk up to one of them and start DISARMing him until I got the "Arrrgggh!! My weapon!!". They would attack, I would feign death to wipe the aggro, standup, grab the sword and sell it to a merchant. It was more for fun (and disarm training) than profit.</p>

[WeatherMan]

ke'la wrote: <blockquote><cite>Packet wrote:</cite><blockquote>Heh, a Dark Elf Ranger?  What's next...a High Elf Shadowknight?  Dark Elf Paladin?  A Troll Bard?  A Ogre wizard? Oh wait yeah, they ARE "next" already!  We already got those....to hell with tradition and RPing.  Political correctness has come to the EQ universe!! <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   </blockquote><p> Yeah, giving players options and allowing them to do what they want with their toon is a very bad thing /sarcasim_off</p><p>Um, your one bad RPer if you can't come up with atleast 10 valid RP reasons for someone to turn from Evil to Good or visa versa. Hell LUCAN DID IT you know the guy on the cover art that is incharge of Freeport, He started out as a Paladin.</p></blockquote>Uh...I gotta agree with Ke'la here...how is this 'political correctness', anyways?  I would call it 'freedom of choice'.  And it removes a lot of the artificial barriers to roleplay that were evident in EQ1 (and in Vanguard, for that matter).  We don't HAVE to say that 'all dark elves are evil', or 'all halflings are cheerful, overfed sots'.  That's one 'tradition' I can do without, thanks very much. And my wife DOES have a High Elf shadowknight, FYI...and a ratonga monk and a Dark Elf templar.  I have a Dark Elf paladin, a halfling bruiser, and a High Elf assassin Why?  Because we can.  And that's what matters.

[Siogai]

And High Elf Shadowknights are... kinda hot.  <0.0>

[Rast]

<p>Yep, I'm one of those pesky Teir'dal paladins <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>As for why, it is a long story and given your sincere lack of anything that might disrupt your little world, I won't repeat it, but needless to say, he has very good reasons for being what he is and how he is.  And yes, every bit of it fits within the lore of the game at the time.</p>

[Lilj]

<cite>WeatherMan wrote:</cite><blockquote>ke'la wrote: <blockquote><cite>Packet wrote:</cite><blockquote>Heh, a Dark Elf Ranger?  What's next...a High Elf Shadowknight?  Dark Elf Paladin?  A Troll Bard?  A Ogre wizard? Oh wait yeah, they ARE "next" already!  We already got those....to hell with tradition and RPing.  Political correctness has come to the EQ universe!! <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   </blockquote><p> Yeah, giving players options and allowing them to do what they want with their toon is a very bad thing /sarcasim_off</p><p>Um, your one bad RPer if you can't come up with atleast 10 valid RP reasons for someone to turn from Evil to Good or visa versa. Hell LUCAN DID IT you know the guy on the cover art that is incharge of Freeport, He started out as a Paladin.</p></blockquote>Uh...I gotta agree with Ke'la here...how is this 'political correctness', anyways?  I would call it 'freedom of choice'.  And it removes a lot of the artificial barriers to roleplay that were evident in EQ1 (and in Vanguard, for that matter).  We don't HAVE to say that 'all dark elves are evil', or 'all halflings are cheerful, overfed sots'.  That's one 'tradition' I can do without, thanks very much. And my wife DOES have a High Elf shadowknight, FYI...and a ratonga monk and a Dark Elf templar.  I have a Dark Elf paladin, a halfling bruiser, and a High Elf assassin Why?  Because we can.  And that's what matters. </blockquote>Yep, I have to agree also. And then insert a bit of jolly halfling humour here: <a href="http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0435.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0435.html</a>

[Packet]

ke'la wrote: <blockquote><cite>Packet wrote:</cite><blockquote>Heh, a Dark Elf Ranger?  What's next...a High Elf Shadowknight?  Dark Elf Paladin?  A Troll Bard?  A Ogre wizard? Oh wait yeah, they ARE "next" already!  We already got those....to hell with tradition and RPing.  Political correctness has come to the EQ universe!! <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   </blockquote><p> Yeah, giving players options and allowing them to do what they want with their toon is a very bad thing /sarcasim_off</p><p>Um, your one bad RPer if you can't come up with atleast 10 valid RP reasons for someone to turn from Evil to Good or visa versa. Hell LUCAN DID IT you know the guy on the cover art that is incharge of Freeport, He started out as a Paladin.</p></blockquote> Players should have as many options as possible, as long as they fit within the theme of the game.  But political correctness has come to EQ and now it's equal opportunity for all because it's politically incorrect to say that one race is superior or better at some stuff than others. But this is a fantasy world, not the real world.  I mean why even have different races at all?  It's being reduced to nothing more than a different graphic on the screen.  Don't assume, don't generalize - everybody is an individual with total freedom and no restrictions.  While that's great for the real world, for the fantasy RPing world it ruins the atmosphere.  Humans were allowed to be good or evil because that is within the tradition and fits the nature of that race.  Humans have free will and it wasn't said which deity created them so they have options.  However Dark Elves are inherently evil and that should be their nature.  A female gnome should not be as strong a warrior as a male ogre, etc. etc.  This is a fantasy world, we're allowed to make up these rules and should.  Original EQ did but EQ2 has moved away from it.  But I don't really feel like fighting this battle again.  I'll just have to keep looking at troll wizards who are just as good as elven ones and hope for the next game to get back to the traditional ways and lose the political correctness. 

[TaleraRis]

<cite>Packet wrote:</cite><blockquote>Heh, a Dark Elf Ranger?  What's next...a High Elf Shadowknight?  Dark Elf Paladin?  A Troll Bard?  A Ogre wizard? Oh wait yeah, they ARE "next" already!  We already got those....to hell with tradition and RPing.  Political correctness has come to the EQ universe!! <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   </blockquote>The tradition of EQ1 was *limiting* to roleplaying and creativity, not a friend to it, just as much as D&D 1st ed and AD&D were narrow-minded in roleplay scope.  It didn't matter how good a concept you came up with in EQ1 or the first incarnations of D&D to explain why your particular character of a chosen race differed from the norm. The rules caged you in. You could roleplay that you were "in disguise" or "pretend" to be a good brand of a traditionally evil race, or vice versa, but your choices were extremely limited. 3rd ed D&D's changes to all races being able to be all classes was a breath of fresh air in terms of roleplaying, as good roleplayers could now play those races and classes that they had always wanted to and had a creative reason for bringing into being, the same as EQ2's all races can be all classes system has been a huge boon to ingenuity in roleplaying within EQ2's Norrath. The artificial limitations have been removed and creativity has been allowed to pour forth, rather than the same trite stories characters were held to before.

[Packet]

<cite>TaleraRis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Packet wrote:</cite><blockquote>Heh, a Dark Elf Ranger?  What's next...a High Elf Shadowknight?  Dark Elf Paladin?  A Troll Bard?  A Ogre wizard? Oh wait yeah, they ARE "next" already!  We already got those....to hell with tradition and RPing.  Political correctness has come to the EQ universe!! <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   </blockquote>The tradition of EQ1 was *limiting* to roleplaying and creativity, not a friend to it, just as much as D&D 1st ed and AD&D were narrow-minded in roleplay scope.  It didn't matter how good a concept you came up with in EQ1 or the first incarnations of D&D to explain why your particular character of a chosen race differed from the norm. The rules caged you in. You could roleplay that you were "in disguise" or "pretend" to be a good brand of a traditionally evil race, or vice versa, but your choices were extremely limited. 3rd ed D&D's changes to all races being able to be all classes was a breath of fresh air in terms of roleplaying, as good roleplayers could now play those races and classes that they had always wanted to and had a creative reason for bringing into being, the same as EQ2's all races can be all classes system has been a huge boon to ingenuity in roleplaying within EQ2's Norrath. The artificial limitations have been removed and creativity has been allowed to pour forth, rather than the same trite stories characters were held to before. </blockquote> I played both D&D 1st edition and AD&D and I don't think they were narrow-minded.  It seems everyone's definition of roleplaying is to pick a race and then go with a class and alignment that is as far from the 'norm' as possible.  It's like a rebellious child or something.  How much of a challenge is it to come up with a reason why your character switched alignments or chose a non-traditional type class?  If everybody did that, or even if just half the people did that then you no longer have a standard or a tradition for a certain race or class.  The lines will be totally blurred with every race able to be every class and every alignment.  And what fun is that?  To me it's more challenging to role play within the theme of the world and the characters. 

[TaleraRis]

<cite>Packet wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TaleraRis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Packet wrote:</cite><blockquote>Heh, a Dark Elf Ranger?  What's next...a High Elf Shadowknight?  Dark Elf Paladin?  A Troll Bard?  A Ogre wizard? Oh wait yeah, they ARE "next" already!  We already got those....to hell with tradition and RPing.  Political correctness has come to the EQ universe!! <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   </blockquote>The tradition of EQ1 was *limiting* to roleplaying and creativity, not a friend to it, just as much as D&D 1st ed and AD&D were narrow-minded in roleplay scope.  It didn't matter how good a concept you came up with in EQ1 or the first incarnations of D&D to explain why your particular character of a chosen race differed from the norm. The rules caged you in. You could roleplay that you were "in disguise" or "pretend" to be a good brand of a traditionally evil race, or vice versa, but your choices were extremely limited. 3rd ed D&D's changes to all races being able to be all classes was a breath of fresh air in terms of roleplaying, as good roleplayers could now play those races and classes that they had always wanted to and had a creative reason for bringing into being, the same as EQ2's all races can be all classes system has been a huge boon to ingenuity in roleplaying within EQ2's Norrath. The artificial limitations have been removed and creativity has been allowed to pour forth, rather than the same trite stories characters were held to before. </blockquote> I played both D&D 1st edition and AD&D and I don't think they were narrow-minded.  It seems everyone's definition of roleplaying is to pick a race and then go with a class and alignment that is as far from the 'norm' as possible.  It's like a rebellious child or something.  How much of a challenge is it to come up with a reason why your character switched alignments or chose a non-traditional type class?  If everybody did that, or even if just half the people did that then you no longer have a standard or a tradition for a certain race or class.  The lines will be totally blurred with every race able to be every class and every alignment.  And what fun is that?  To me it's more challenging to role play within the theme of the world and the characters.  </blockquote>The challenge lies in making the explanation fit into the worldview you are given, and not just be some munchkin idea with fluff behind it. In my eyes, it's far easier to go along with tradition and the norm, because your motivations are laid out for you and there's no element of choice. In choosing a race or class with an alignment that isn't then "norm" for them, there's the challenge of having to make the decision have a solid background and make sense.  There has to be a very good reason that your character broke from tradition or you'll just look silly because you won't have any sort of firm backing for the whys and whats about your character's personality.

[Wildmage]

Gnome Barbarian raised by Dire Badgers!!!

[Leatherneck]

<cite>Packet wrote:</cite><blockquote>But this is a fantasy world, not the real world.  I mean why even have different races at all?  It's being reduced to nothing more than a different graphic on the screen.  Don't assume, don't generalize - everybody is an individual with total freedom and no restrictions.  While that's great for the real world, for the fantasy RPing world it ruins the atmosphere.  </blockquote><p>Umm....no.</p><p>Tales of Redemption and Fall from Grace are as old as tales themselves, and that includes fantasy.</p>