Need For a New Good City Now? [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Caethre

08-05-2007, 09:04 PM

<cite>Josgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Im hoping rivervale becomes cleansed. </blockquote>OOC.I'm very disappointed with you Josgar. There is only one existing city I would wish to have its horrible mess of a storyline sorted out, and we both know what that is. The one part of EOF that wasn't wonderfully done, that was by contrast a complete fiasco as far as consistent lore with EQ1 was concerned. FELWITHE. Of course. But it won't happen, I suspect.I would expect it to be on Kunark. In which case, if it has to be on Kunark and it has to be good aligned, then case back your memories, and think, where was the haven of good in Kunark in EQ1 times?Firiona Vie of course. I would love to see that return. Perhaps even with some real high elves in it, not ones that have somehow degenerated into 60-year-lifespan shadows in just 500 years (casually forgetting that high elves can actually live almost 500 years in just one generation...but let's not poke more holes in the EOF lore for "New Tunaria&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.We can hope!

Gasheron

08-05-2007, 10:18 PM

Felish, if you haven't played EQ1 recently, Firiona Vie was taken over by evils. I doubt that they are going to do another reversal just to put a city for goods on a continent of 65+ mobs.

Willias

08-05-2007, 10:51 PM

<cite>Gasheron wrote:</cite><blockquote>Felish, if you haven't played EQ1 recently, Firiona Vie was taken over by evils. I doubt that they are going to do another reversal just to put a city for goods on a continent of 65+ mobs.</blockquote>This happened after PoP, so it really isn't canon in EQ2's storyline. It has been said that SOMETHING has happened to FV though, and it's no longer a bastion for the good races on Kunark. I bet the Iksar sacked it.

DMIstar

08-06-2007, 12:27 AM

They will prolly have a good city show up sometime after RoK, wouldnt be surprised its what they did with EoF... Halas Would Be interesting.

StoneySilen

08-06-2007, 01:14 AM

Whatever it is I would think it would be in Old World content. We have 2 evil cities in old world and 1 good city. Halas and Rivervale are two options. Or they could surprise us and bring back something like Highpass Keep or something out of the blue.

Cusashorn

08-06-2007, 01:24 AM

^ Highpass Keep, as much as I greatly desire it's return, is the headquarters of the Far Seas Trading Company. I don't think they want us living there.

Seiden

08-06-2007, 03:28 AM

frogloks and halflings can start in the qeynos sewers. o=)

Saavedra

08-06-2007, 03:33 AM

While we did mention in the ROK discussions at FF that Gorowyn is leaning towards being an evil starting city, this is not set in stone. We have gone back and forth on the issue a couple times already at the office, and we just haven't come to a final decision yet. My personal preference is that of neutral at this time, but I would love to hear some opinions on the matter.My reasoning for wanting neutrality is solely based in the fact that I like the idea of the Sarnak not particularly leaning one way or the other in terms of right and wrong, largely due to the fact that they haven't come into their own yet in terms of society thanks to their isolation.

Galithdor

08-06-2007, 03:41 AM

Devasq

08-06-2007, 04:31 AM

I would hate to see Iksar being able to live there if it is an evil city being the two are supposedly at war.

Winter

08-06-2007, 05:10 AM

<cite>Saavedra wrote:</cite><blockquote>While we did mention in the ROK discussions at FF that Gorowyn is leaning towards being an evil starting city, this is not set in stone. We have gone back and forth on the issue a couple times already at the office, and we just haven't come to a final decision yet. My personal preference is that of neutral at this time, but I would love to hear some opinions on the matter.My reasoning for wanting neutrality is solely based in the fact that I like the idea of the Sarnak not particularly leaning one way or the other in terms of right and wrong, largely due to the fact that they haven't come into their own yet in terms of society thanks to their isolation.</blockquote> I think neutrality is the way to go. The story of their awakening and their desire to learn more about themselves leads me to believe that they're not "about" good vs. evil, but rather too concerned with the matters at hand to care otherwise. Of course, they have their own conflicts going on in their homeland... but I think designating them as evil would take away from their journey into themselves. Of course, I only know the surface of their story - but this is my opinion based upon what I know thus far.

Caethre

08-06-2007, 05:32 AM

<cite>Willias wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gasheron wrote:</cite><blockquote>Felish, if you haven't played EQ1 recently, Firiona Vie was taken over by evils. I doubt that they are going to do another reversal just to put a city for goods on a continent of 65+ mobs.</blockquote>This happened after PoP, so it really isn't canon in EQ2's storyline. It has been said that SOMETHING has happened to FV though, and it's no longer a bastion for the good races on Kunark. I bet the Iksar sacked it. </blockquote>OOC.Ahh. No I did not know this. I played EQ1 for five full years, but moved to EQ2 when it was launched, so the latest stuff I've no idea on. Tho yes, the baseline for EQ2 was made before more recent EQ1 events, thats also true.Regardless, obviously I'd prefer to see a real high elven city. One without weird inconsistent lore that doesn't make sense.As for Sarnak, great idea, tho I would prefer that EQ2 keeps as much EQ1 lore as canon as possible. Sarnak were not neutral, no sir-ee, they were pretty darn evil, so I'd prefer they remain evil, personally.

Snowdonia

08-06-2007, 08:43 AM

I liked neutrality myself but with that brings a host of new problems... 1) Who will the city of Gorowyn share a bank with? The goods, evils, or have their own? a) This is another reason why I suggested in a different thread to merge the shared banks into one that is not governed by alignment 2) Which classes will be available to them? Good, evil, both, or a selection from either side? a) If all classes are allowed then there will be obvious issues, especially from the RP perspective, with a, say, Paladin Trainer standing right next to a Shadowknight Trainer and them not wanting to rip each others eyes out. b) It would make Gorowyn a very powerful place to live if ALL available classes were allowed to centralize in one city. While Haven works this way currently, there are also prices to pay for that. c) Baring B in mind, what "price" will be paid to even out this leaning of the scales for Gorowyn if all is neutral and everything is intermingled? 3) How would the classes be grouped within the city with both good and evil classes available? a) Following up the views above and sticking with the "all classes" view point, IMO the city would NEED to be sectioned out between a good aligned area and an evil aligned area with a neutral area in between but with no open hostility to one another if an evil decides to wander into the good area and vice versa (this would be the cities faction in play). b) On the other hand, since something needs to be paid to the piper, I do think it would be most fitting if the class guilds themselves were KOS to opposite aligned players. So, if a Paladin decided he wanted to go into the sanctum of the evil's caster guild, he'd be dead on site by their personal guards. 4) The downside to my proposed outlook on the city, if all classes are made available, is it doubles the devs work in creating two of everything. Two caster guilds, two fighter guilds, two scout guilds, etc etc. So, as I said, I like neutrality, but I would rather see an EQ-esque type neutrality where the good and evil specific classes are segregated within the city walls but there is a neutral common ground between the two IF it is decided ALL classes will be made available within Gorowyn. The optimal choice? Neutral with a selection of classes from the good and evil alignments that fit into what a Sarnak would have learned to be (lore from EQ). I know for a FACT there were SK Sarnaks (I'd gotten hit with their HTs more than I can count) so I'd choose an SK as a starting class for them before I'd choose a Paladin. But classes such as Inquisitor and Templar, Illusionist and Coercer, there was not this split in the archetype in EQ so a Templar and Illusionist could easily fit amongst the starting classes. That would of course put my Sarnak Defiler plans in jeopardy of requiring a betrayal (ahhh, and then the conundrum of if I betray, can I simply betray/relocate back to Gorowyn with my newly chosen class and not be forced to change comes into play, yet another hurdle to work through), but given I've betrayed 2/3 of my characters anyways, it's not something I'd shy away from.

Vonotar

08-06-2007, 09:04 AM

Somewhere else I saw the suggestion that Gorowyn would be evil, but neutral in respects to the Qeynos-Freeport hostilities. This would work well, creating 4 in-game factions (1 good, 2 evil, 1 neutral). A second good faction could be introduced with a LU similar to Neriak, either a return to Rivervale or the addition of Halas for halflings, frogloks and any other non-evil races currently lacking alternative starting zones (some neutrals can start in up to three cities at present!). This also would mean that basic EQ2 holders would have Neriak and Rivervale/Halas as alternatives to Freeport and Qeynos without needing expansions. I see no problem with RoK only having 1 evil city. EoF only had 1 good city, so this would actually be a proper balance. I'd save a lot of other possibilities not linked with the old world zones for future expansions.

madha

08-06-2007, 10:10 AM

Just as long as all the new cities dont suffer from GFae's horrrible travel times to kos, old world, and Dof zones =P.

ke'la

08-06-2007, 10:31 AM

Felishanna@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote><cite>Willias wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gasheron wrote:</cite><blockquote>Felish, if you haven't played EQ1 recently, Firiona Vie was taken over by evils. I doubt that they are going to do another reversal just to put a city for goods on a continent of 65+ mobs.</blockquote>This happened after PoP, so it really isn't canon in EQ2's storyline. It has been said that SOMETHING has happened to FV though, and it's no longer a bastion for the good races on Kunark. I bet the Iksar sacked it. </blockquote>OOC.Ahh. No I did not know this. I played EQ1 for five full years, but moved to EQ2 when it was launched, so the latest stuff I've no idea on. Tho yes, the baseline for EQ2 was made before more recent EQ1 events, thats also true.Regardless, obviously I'd prefer to see a real high elven city. One without weird inconsistent lore that doesn't make sense.As for Sarnak, great idea, tho I would prefer that EQ2 keeps as much EQ1 lore as canon as possible. Sarnak were not neutral, no sir-ee, they were pretty darn evil, so I'd prefer they remain evil, personally. </blockquote>FYI, these are NOT the EQ1 Sarnaks they are Differant and infact have only awoken resontly and have only about 50years of history as a socity, so whatever the devs deturmin it does not effect EQ1 lore besides the fact that everything after PoP potentally did not happen in EQ2.I personally would also like to see them on the Swiss side of neutral (you know the same Swiss that stored [Removed for Content] Loot and still has not given it back) basicly they only care about themselfs and what and [Removed for Content] the rest of you, wich would make them unalined to ANY city and therefor Neutral.

FreaklyCreak

08-06-2007, 11:11 AM

I would love to see Rivervale reborn. You could use crafters and adventurers to fight back The Horde(Nightblood faction?).

Willias

08-06-2007, 11:13 AM

<cite>Saavedra wrote:</cite><blockquote>While we did mention in the ROK discussions at FF that Gorowyn is leaning towards being an evil starting city, this is not set in stone. We have gone back and forth on the issue a couple times already at the office, and we just haven't come to a final decision yet. My personal preference is that of neutral at this time, but I would love to hear some opinions on the matter.My reasoning for wanting neutrality is solely based in the fact that I like the idea of the Sarnak not particularly leaning one way or the other in terms of right and wrong, largely due to the fact that they haven't come into their own yet in terms of society thanks to their isolation.</blockquote>If they're truly neutral, why couldn't you give them a blend of good and evil classes to reinforce that instead of just labeling them as evil? I mean, okay, they pick up on Necromancy faster than they do the ability to summon and control the elements. So they can be necromancers. But defiling spirits doesn't seem right to them compared to protecting them, so they learn how to be Mystics instead of Defilers. It'd really be more interesting to see a truly neutral-ish city instead of one that fits into the current Good/Evil mold.

Deadrus

08-06-2007, 12:36 PM

I think the sarnak city should stay evil as the most recent news says. It just make sence they are bread from dragons and iksar both of witch in eq have an evil disposition. And I think its about time good be out number for a time. Evil had only one city untill they annouced Neriak and i belive they should keep some love on us evils by giveing us 3 citys and the good 2 for a time and doing a live update 5 or 6 months later like what they did with neriak but add a new good city. I think that would work out quite nicely. I hope its a part of antonica i really would like to get the missing peices of that contenant back because theres still a good bit thats missing. And i just cant see sarnak being goood classes like palidins and monks templars and so forth. And if they were "neutral" and wanted to betray they would need 2 different betrayer quest to go one way or the other. It just seems that makeing them neutral would just be harder on the devs because it would be a more time consumeing process then just makeing them good or evil.

Enever

08-06-2007, 01:21 PM

Gorowyn should stay neutral. These Sarnak are not the traditional ones from Chardok (I think thats it) And they weren't the ones that were enslaved by Iksar. They are the "new Generation". They want to learn about the world around them, their past. They want to know why they are the way they are, and want to know more. They wouldn't be evil due to this, It sounds logical to be neutral. From what I heard about them they don't sound evil. They are at war with Iksar too, so having them be evil would be contradictory. I doubt an Iksar in Freeport will welcome a Sarnak. Isolation also means Neutral. If they are isolated, they wouldn't know the philosophy of Evil or Good, They would know nothing about Freeport, Qeynos, and Neriak. Then theres the game stand point. Evils currently have two cities, goods also have two cities. A 3rd evil city would throw off that balance and make it look like that evil is getting all the love. Maj'dul, it's a neutral city ( for high ups) Gorowyn would balance the neutral cities out a bit, just that one city is a starter. The character select scree, Evils and goods have 6, neutrals have 5, there is room for -one- more type of character, why not make it the sarnak. it would put away a lot of stress that the people who make the character select screen. I'm sure there are other ways, I just can't think of them, Anyways, thats just my 2cp.

Deadrus

08-06-2007, 02:55 PM

I like the idea of Gorowyn being evil because it means there would have to be another good city some time. And i'm all about there being more citys. I miss the many starting citys from eq1. And Evil is nature. Sarnak have been by nature evil as iksar have been they are always evil. Anyway i wish eq2 deterimined good and evil like in eq1 because what determined good and evil in eq1 was the deity you worshiped. Some races didnt really have a choise Iksar i think could only worship cazic thule threre creator god who was evil and so they were evil. In eq2 its just well Lucan D'lere's Values are "evil" so his city and every one in it is also "evil" and in qeynos the queen has "good" ideals therefor every one in the city is good and the 2 citys dont like each other. Just because the sarnak and people in Gorowyn are evil doent make them in alliance with freeport or neriak. Heck in eq1 Neairk was evil and iksar couldnt enter they were killed on site and any one that tried to enter cablis was allso killed on site two evill races evil citys but they were not friendly. I really wana see this in eq2. Evil not allying with evil just because they are "evil" too. Would also be nice to have a facion system more like eq1 so you could earn your way in to sertain places and not just be permited to walk in from the start.

Blumfield

08-06-2007, 03:03 PM

From a PVP raiding perspective, Sarnaks being neutral (all classes--available to all guilds) is clearly the most desirable option. From a business perspective, making the Sarnaks neutral would increase revenue/customer-base on PVP servers as all the good/evil aligned guilds rushed out to level up the classes they've lacked since their servers' inception. More incentive to play=bigger player base(fewer people quitting, even if it doesn't necessarily draw new customers in)=a better bottom line. Now, as for how Sarnak neutrality would affect revenue from PvE servers, I don't know whether it would have much effect either way.my 2cpSchmutzen

Firecracker

08-06-2007, 03:07 PM

Didn't the Erudins have two starting points depending on your profession in EQ1? I think that it should be something perhaps like that where one side or upper level set for the pally,conj,swashies,mystics etc and depper side or lower level set for the other classes........I have no clue to as what this city is like so if there is an upper level or lower level or is it possible to have 2 starting cities varly close considering pvp? Is that going to ruin the neutral part if they are seperate? Some how the classes need to have some balance don't they? How can one be a Necro and then other be Conj in the same city? Can you explain how the communtiy of the Sarnarks are going to be neutral when some classes are naturally evil or good? It makes for more chaos then good. Some how when time goes by they need to seperate themselves don't they kind like the erudins did in eq1? I feel that Sarnarks will eventually learn that evil is evil and good is good once they branch out to the other parts of the Narrath so that tells me that is perahps will make some lore in it self when a sanark comes homes from a long trip of exploring other parts of the world of Narrath that they'll learn the difference some how won't they? I guess to make things easiler make 2 starting points for them base on good and evil classes but some how they still get along? I feel that even though they are still learning about themselves they still should know difference of good and evil shouldn't they even after 50 years? oh well whatever the devs decide is cool but I gave some food for thought I hope.

Cusashorn

08-06-2007, 03:08 PM

Yes. Good erudites began in Erudin, while Erudite Clerics of Cazic Thule, Shadowknights, and Necromancers began in Paineel.

Josgar

08-06-2007, 04:02 PM

Here is what I think about the Sarnak Starting city:If its evil.... then the halflings of rivervale should reclaim their city...If its neutral, they shoulnt be all Evil classes. Im thinking that sarnaks would have rangers with super good bow skills because they have to shoot the aviaks out of the sky no?Maybe Sarnak could only have Bezerskers and to replace guardians they could have both monks and bruisers...I think it would be cool if the classes were shuffled up a little and that the old neutral classes that could be used in Freeport or Qeynos might not have both of them available in Gorowyn.

Zabjade

08-06-2007, 07:09 PM

Hmmm perhaps a NEW player founded city.Ideas:Enough Tier'dal have betrayed that a NEW Dark Elf City could form. Could add a tree or two at the bottom of a well light sinkhole for Wood elves and maybe a place for High elves as well as they would want to keep an eye on the Teir Dal while being dipolmatic.A New Swiftail MONK Clan forms, and around them the Iksar rally as well as other interested parties.Large remnents of New Tannan (Good and Neutral districts Sans PoP Access!) crashes through the dimensional barrier and those long trapped in PoK are now free.GM Tradeskill eventA boat town halfway between Antonica and Kurnark?The Froglocks have found a way to expand the Refuge isles sizeJust a few ideas

cronar

08-06-2007, 07:24 PM

In keeping with the current style of introduction, a good city can be added off of Antonica, just as Neriak was added off of Commonlands.A good choice would be Surefell Glade. Yeah, i know that the Isle of Zek is supposed to be the remnants of the jagged pine forest, but the western edge of Antonica would prove the most logical spot to "discover" the lost city of Surefell.They could treat it exactly like they did the forest surrounding Neriak. Perhaps a portion of land from Jagged Pine could be attached to surefell for a 1-20 zone. For this good aligned city, the Antonica enterence could be located off of the beach on the south west corner of the zone, and have another lead directly into thunderring steppes, like darklight woods connects to nek forest.The general theme for the new surefell land could be helping the ancestors of surefell defend against the constant aggresion of the bb gnolls.

calderan

08-06-2007, 07:35 PM

I don't see the reason that good vs evil city count has to be balanced at all times. Both sides have sufficient cities and starting zones now. As for turning Rivervale into the city perhaps removing that content from the game by turning it into a city would make them fix what is the game's weakest content... levels 30 to 40. Instead of investing in yet another 1-20 starting area I'd prefer they invest the time into fixing the stretch of boring content from between BB/TS/NF and DoF/EoF content. We need an alternative to EL and Zek or a major overhaul of both zones.

Zabjade

08-06-2007, 08:09 PM

Surefall would be Due North of Elddar Grove part of Qeynos perhaps A secret Island refuge is opened for reason's unknown.

Dragowulf

08-06-2007, 08:12 PM

<cite>Josgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Im hoping rivervale becomes cleansed. </blockquote> yeah and new tunaria will become cleansed. *laugh* drago.

StargateFanGirl

08-06-2007, 08:44 PM

The balance of good vs. evil is getting off-kilter.<ul><li>Qeynos is good</li><li>Freeport is evil</li><li>Neriak is evil</li><li>Kelethin is Neutral - good aligned since only neutral or good races can start there but evil races can visit and not die on sight.</li></ul>Gorrowyn or however you spell it aught to be neutral not evil, even if it is Neutral - evil aligned. If you make Gorrowyn evil then you've got 3 evil cities vs 1 good and 1 neutral city and you'll need to add another Neutral city and 2 good cities to balance it back out. If you make Gorrowyn neutral then you'll only need to add one good city, which is a lot less work.I think we need a city that is strictly neutral though - no good or evil races allowed to start there, and if High Keep were still around I'd say that'd be a good place to put em.

StargateFanGirl

08-06-2007, 08:44 PM

My computer is lagging. Edited for double post...

Josgar

08-06-2007, 08:46 PM

<cite>StargateFanGirl wrote:</cite><blockquote>The balance of good vs. evil is getting off-kilter.<ul><li>Qeynos is good</li><li>Freeport is evil</li><li>Neriak is evil</li><li>Kelethin is Neutral - good aligned since only neutral or good races can start there but evil races can visit and not die on sight.</li></ul>Gorrowyn or however you spell it aught to be neutral not evil, even if it is Neutral - evil aligned. If you make Gorrowyn evil then you've got 3 evil cities vs 1 good and 1 neutral city and you'll need to add another Neutral city and 2 good cities to balance it back out. If you make Gorrowyn neutral then you'll only need to add one good city, which is a lot less work.I think we need a city that is strictly neutral though - no good or evil races allowed to start there, and if High Keep were still around I'd say that'd be a good place to put em. </blockquote>Kelethin is actually considered to be good aligned since you can freely move between it and qeynos without having to do betrayel.

ke'la

08-06-2007, 09:01 PM

<cite>calderan wrote:</cite><blockquote> I don't see the reason that good vs evil city count has to be balanced at all times. Both sides have sufficient cities and starting zones now. As for turning Rivervale into the city perhaps removing that content from the game by turning it into a city would make them fix what is the game's weakest content... levels 30 to 40. Instead of investing in yet another 1-20 starting area I'd prefer they invest the time into fixing the stretch of boring content from between BB/TS/NF and DoF/EoF content. We need an alternative to EL and Zek or a major overhaul of both zones. </blockquote> You mean a zone like say Steamfont?As far needing 2 differant betrail quests if neutral? Um, why is that? You betray your city in Tenebulas Deep, you then goto the Haven like all other Exiles then you can gain faction with any of the 5 cities, from inside the haven. I also think it would be a good Idea to reorginize the definitions of good/evil classes. Besides consitering that the Sarnaks are going to be fighting the Iksar(wich are desidedly evil) I don't see how you can say that the New Sarnaks are on the same side.

Windain

08-06-2007, 10:13 PM

I feel there should be more divisions in EQ2 to make characters more unique (Already blurred due to the class/race allowance). Good/Evil cities are one method to doing this. Need to think how future expansions could turn out. Because of massive changes, this is more of a guess based on history.Odus:Erudin would be good, Paineel evil, or the twin towers of Quellious/Cazic Thule could be split between good/evil while the lower underground tower would be neutral (or at least the upper part).Velious:Thurgadin could be good or neutral, Kael would be evil or neutral, and Skyshrine would be neutral... maybe evil.Kunark:Overthere is evil, FV is evil (Maybe good?), Gorowyn is evil, remnants of Cabalis/Sebilis would be evil (Or maybe good if the frogloks were enlightened by marr and such).Kithicor region:Highkeep most likely neutral as a bastion against the Kithicor forest.Other expansions:GoD/OoW unlikely (Rather unpopular, but then again you could get a good race here if you wanted), SoL (maybe Shar Vahl was blown back to Norrath in an ironic twist along with a large chunk of Luclin). DoN and on are probably too new to be futurized by EQ2, but maybe chunks (such as DoN stuff with Kithicor and Highkeep). LDoN and Ykesha (please no). PoP, this would probably be one of the later expansions once all the gods are back in force (I loved visiting the planes), New Tanaan would be neutral by Quellious.Thoughts:Leave Gorowyn evil, but allow good to travel through all but royal chambers. Few months later resurrect either Halas (currently underwater), Rivervale (overrun), Highborne (destroyed before EQ1 along with all the other EQOA cities), Highkeep (more likely to be neutral/evil due to its corruption), Kedge (Good extinct fish people?).

Zabjade

08-06-2007, 11:35 PM

Halas is not underwater (As far as known) , and it would be far FAR west of Permafrost (The Halasians there where likely camping the Giants when the Rendering or shattering occured) maybe south of the entry bell area.

Cusashorn

08-07-2007, 12:14 AM

Yeah, Vhalen confirmed that Halas is still around, but isn't remotely close to Everfrost anymore. (it's certainly not on the map, thats for sure.)

cronar

08-07-2007, 01:29 AM

In consideration for Halas, the tunnel to everfrost is still in BB on Antonica, it wouldn't be without reason that a pass could be uncovered in Antonica that leads to a now more tropical city of Halas that also has a path that leads to Thundering steppes.

Kyle

08-07-2007, 05:20 AM

I would love to see Halas make a return. Although I would be pretty disapointed if it's weather changed to a more tropical setting. We need more snowy areas.

Vonotar

08-07-2007, 06:17 AM

<cite>madhatr wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just as long as all the new cities dont suffer from GFae's horrrible travel times to kos, old world, and Dof zones =P. </blockquote> <cite>StargateFanGirl wrote:</cite><blockquote>The balance of good vs. evil is getting off-kilter.<ul><li>Qeynos is good</li><li>Freeport is evil</li><li>Neriak is evil</li><li>Kelethin is Neutral - good aligned since only neutral or good races can start there but evil races can visit and not die on sight.</li></ul>Gorrowyn or however you spell it aught to be neutral not evil, even if it is Neutral - evil aligned. If you make Gorrowyn evil then you've got 3 evil cities vs 1 good and 1 neutral city and you'll need to add another Neutral city and 2 good cities to balance it back out. If you make Gorrowyn neutral then you'll only need to add one good city, which is a lot less work.I think we need a city that is strictly neutral though - no good or evil races allowed to start there, and if High Keep were still around I'd say that'd be a good place to put em. </blockquote>Actually Gorrowyn fits the pattern perfectly, if you ignore the order in which the cities have been added. A lot of comparisons have been made between Kelethin and Neriak on the belief that they are supposed to be the complementary opposites. A lot of people have pointed out the differences between the two and made claims that Kelethin has an unfair advantage/Neriak has an unfair advantage (depending on their viewpoint). However I believe that the real comparison we should be making is between EOF and ROK. EOF introduced a new continent with a good aligned city, ROK appears to be a new continent with a evil aligned city, sounds complementary to me. In short I can see the cities panning out as follows: QEYNOS - Good, KOS Evil, Original City FREEPORT - Evil, KOS Good, Original City KELETHIN - Good-Neutral, No KOS, EOF New City, New Continent, Distanced from old world zones GORROWYN - Evil-Neutral, No KOS, ROK New City, New Continent, Distanced from old world zone? "HALAS" - Good, KOS Evil, ROK + 6 months GU, Borders Antonica & Thundering Steppes (possibly east of Antonican Mountains) NERIAK - Evil, KOS Good, EOF + 6 months GU, Borders Commonlands & Nek Forest (north of Commonlands Mountains) If this truly is the balance, the new Good mini-city would be somewhere that connects to both Antonica and Thundering Steppes. Candidates include Halas or Oggok, Rivervale would be difficult without in someway breaking the link with the Enchanted Lands. Lesser candidates include Surfall Glade and High Hold. My favourite having re-read this thread is "Halas".

Vonotar

08-07-2007, 07:25 AM

Having studied a few EQ1 maps I suspect that Halas is the plan, it is no doubt tucked behind the eastern mountains of Antonica. I've edited my post above. *bookmarks post in case he's correct later*

Snowdonia

08-07-2007, 11:11 AM

Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote: <blockquote>Having studied a few EQ1 maps I suspect that Halas is the plan, it is no doubt tucked behind the eastern mountains of Antonica. I've edited my post above. *bookmarks post in case he's correct later* </blockquote>The main problem with that is that TS is the area tucked away behind the eastern ridge. Someone actually merged EQIIs map over the original EQ map of Antonica... <img src="http://www.ulujain.org/temp/Antonica_Overlay2.jpg" border="0"> It's rough, but as you can see, even on the old map, Antonica is pretty far away from Halas. Only way to get there was to go through Blackburrow IIRC (which on the old map is the small range running east to west to the east of Surefall Glade and the Pines. That pathway has been severed however and the Devs made a booboo when they placed the Blackburrow entrances along the south eastern reaches of Antonica as it doesn't fit it's previous position in EQ. If Halas is going to be anywhere, it SHOULD be to the very north and nestled between Everfrost, Enchanted Lands, and Lavastorm. While I'd prefer Halas as the second alternate city to come with RoK, I could settle for Erudin/Paineel/Odus.

Cusashorn

08-07-2007, 12:07 PM

Danger@Guk wrote: <blockquote>In consideration for Halas, the tunnel to everfrost is still in BB on Antonica, it wouldn't be without reason that a pass could be uncovered in Antonica that leads to a now more tropical city of Halas that also has a path that leads to Thundering steppes.</blockquote> Actually, the gnolls intentionally reconstructed that very tunnel for traditional purposes. Blackburrow was originally completely destroyed, and they rebuilt it from scratch on teh south side of Antonica.

Vonotar

08-07-2007, 12:48 PM

Snowdonia@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote: <blockquote>Having studied a few EQ1 maps I suspect that Halas is the plan, it is no doubt tucked behind the eastern mountains of Antonica. I've edited my post above. *bookmarks post in case he's correct later* </blockquote>The main problem with that is that TS is the area tucked away behind the eastern ridge. Someone actually merged EQIIs map over the original EQ map of Antonica... That is simply one persons interpretation of the two and is not official. It's rough, but as you can see, even on the old map, Antonica is pretty far away from Halas. Only way to get there was to go through Blackburrow IIRC (which on the old map is the small range running east to west to the east of Surefall Glade and the Pines. That pathway has been severed however and the Devs made a booboo when they placed the Blackburrow entrances along the south eastern reaches of Antonica as it doesn't fit it's previous position in EQ. If Halas is going to be anywhere, it SHOULD be to the very north and nestled between Everfrost, Enchanted Lands, and Lavastorm. While I'd prefer Halas as the second alternate city to come with RoK, I could settle for Erudin/Paineel/Odus. </blockquote> That particular map is grossly inaccurate when it comes to the Antonica/Thundering Steppes border. If it was true, you would appear in the top left corner of the map when you zone from Ant - TS... but you actually appear in the top right. Thundering Steppes is to the south of Blackburrow, not the east in the game itself Rough Map: <img src="http://www.elementsofarcadia.org.uk/scrn/Ant-TS.jpg" border="0">

Wildmage

08-07-2007, 04:15 PM

You know whats funny is I went back to EQ1 and blackburrow isn't on the north wall

Cusashorn

08-07-2007, 04:57 PM

Yes, it's on the east wall, in a zone north of Qeynos. Now it's on a south wall in a zone east of Qeynos.

DMIstar

08-07-2007, 08:02 PM

Huh ? Kelethin is good... FPers are KoS to Kelethin... only reason most Evils are not kos is due to level.. But if they mentor, Theres no Way i can step foot in there. Now if your thinking because you can raise faction with it a little bit with it as a FPer, I consider that a null point ... Goodlings Could raise faction for Cab in EQ 1 with bone chips so does that make cabalis a good city in EQ ? no .....

Nayurayne

08-07-2007, 08:08 PM

Bloodravenger@Mistmoore wrote: <blockquote>Huh ? Kelethin is good... FPers are KoS to Kelethin... only reason most Evils are not kos is due to level.. But if they mentor, Theres no Way i can step foot in there. Now if your thinking because you can raise faction with it a little bit with it as a FPer, I consider that a null point ... Goodlings Could raise faction for Cab in EQ 1 with bone chips so does that make cabalis a good city in EQ ? no ..... </blockquote> I walk into Kelethin with my Freeport Iksar all the time as I deposit stuff in the housing there. My Iksar is a loyal follower of evil and has never once been attacked in Kelethin. The only place evil charactors are kill on sight there is near the area where the queen is.

DMIstar

08-07-2007, 08:26 PM

aye the guards are kill on sight... If this was a nuetral city you would not get attacked anywhere.

Nayurayne

08-07-2007, 08:29 PM

Yes, but you made it sound that if you walked up to the lift they would attack you which they don't. One little area in the city that is kill on sight to evil isn't all that bad. Now being able to run around the city does no good when you can't use thing like the bank/broker however....

DMIstar

08-07-2007, 08:34 PM

Its not bad... I do agree they should up the levels of the kelethin NPCs, Its like Qeynos.. As an evil was still getti ng around in Qeynos avoiding places ... Though this does not dictate that qeynos is a neutral city only because i can avoid certain NPCs A true Neutral city would be haven aligned. I doubt they want that it would disbalance PVP servers which they seem to striclty want evil or good hence the specialty aligned armor and such.

Nayurayne

08-07-2007, 08:42 PM

Buh the guards in Kelethin don't attack any of my evil charactors reguardless of level. Well expect the ones right next to the queen of course. While I don't think I said anything about level I think upping some of the guards level is good....a 25 level guard is going to defend from what?I could deal with a city that was true neutral but again I don't understand the PvP concerns either. I play on a PvE server and would never more to a PvP server. I do not hink a neutral city would have to be Haven aligned though. Haven has it's own faction..they're exiles yes so that would mean exiles from a neutral city too.

Snowdonia

08-07-2007, 09:14 PM

Vonotar, You can't just discredit the world map itself. <img src="http://www.ulujain.org/temp/eq2wm.jpg" border="0"> That is the current in game world map. TS on the world map isn't quite orientated the way you have it. I'm also of the opinion that the zone map for TS is a bit enlarged from it's true size because looking at the Ant island on the world map and matching up its borders with the borders of the Ant and TS zone maps, you're actually arbitrarily cutting off a border supported by both maps by using the current TS zone map size. Plus, it doesn't match up the waterfall zone in to TS from Ant. For example: <img src="http://www.ulujain.org/temp/anttszonecon.jpg" border="0"> Those are my maps in game and my markers at each of the Ant/TS connections. The TS map just isn't to scale. But the fact is, Halas was never close enough to that area to be "tucked away" there. It had Rivervale, the Thicket, the Pines, and more between it and Antonica. I can concede that when matching the borders of the Ant and TS maps with the wold map there is a small portion of land that is unaccounted for, but I don't believe this is where Halas will be. Wildmage, You're right, when in the game itself places never quite sat where they showed to be sitting on the world map (NSEW wise and I was constantly making notes on how wrong some places sat within the game compared to the world map). But I'm sure it's the world map that they are basing the break up of the continent, not the orientation of the zones themselves. Surefall Glade on the world map is to the north and given Blackburrow was to the right of Surefall Glade (looking at SG from the front) in the game that must be where it is on the world map if I had to make an estimation. Now that Cusashorn brought it up, I do remember in one of the Blackburrow lore books that it was mentioned how they had to go deeper into their tunnels to avoid the horde. I don't remember if they also mentioned ever taking their original home back however. I am assuming they had though because the long waterfall pit is a very distinctive feature of Blackburrow of old and new as well as the trapped tree stump. It could be that they are creatures of intense habit and rebuilt those features but I'm going to have to go, for now, with that they didn't. It would be nice if a Dev could intervene and explain the zone connections but I know that's gotta be a pipe dream that. lol

Wildmage

08-07-2007, 11:38 PM

okay im in EQ1 as I type this, North Qeynos zone line is the south, with Blackburrow's zone line being on the Eastern wall(though the actual zoneline in the tunnel is west) as well as the zone line to the karanas (EQ2's TS). Going into Black burro I head on the top of the zone NW to zone heading is north into EF, in Everfrost for landmarks Halas is on the North Wall and Permafrost is on the eastern wall, keep in mind Jaggedpine (Zek in EQ2) is directly south of this zone according to atlas) So I can conclude the following had to occur during the shattering and break up of the old world Antonica; the land mas composing Qeynos, Antonica(formerly Qeynos hills and parts of west karanas), Blackburrow, and Thundering steppes(rest of the karanas) got rotated 90 degrees clockwise resulting in Qeynos being in the west, bb in the south TS in the south etc. Everfrost on the other hand looks to have been rotated 90 degrees counter clockwise resulting in Permafrost in the north, and if Halas isn't underwater it would lie somewhere to the west of Everfrost probably as a separate island.

Wildmage

08-07-2007, 11:43 PM

Snowdonia@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote>Vonotar, You can't just discredit the world map itself. <img src="http://www.ulujain.org/temp/eq2wm.jpg" border="0"> That is the current in game world map. TS on the world map isn't quite orientated the way you have it. I'm also of the opinion that the zone map for TS is a bit enlarged from it's true size because looking at the Ant island on the world map and matching up its borders with the borders of the Ant and TS zone maps, you're actually arbitrarily cutting off a border supported by both maps by using the current TS zone map size. Plus, it doesn't match up the waterfall zone in to TS from Ant. For example: <img src="http://www.ulujain.org/temp/anttszonecon.jpg" border="0"> Those are my maps in game and my markers at each of the Ant/TS connections. The TS map just isn't to scale. But the fact is, Halas was never close enough to that area to be "tucked away" there. It had Rivervale, the Thicket, the Pines, and more between it and Antonica. I can concede that when matching the borders of the Ant and TS maps with the wold map there is a small portion of land that is unaccounted for, but I don't believe this is where Halas will be. only Jagged pine is between Antonica and Everfrost in EQ1 and EQ2 that remains accurate, Misty Thicket and RV lay on the other side of Highapss Wildmage, You're right, when in the game itself places never quite sat where they showed to be sitting on the world map (NSEW wise and I was constantly making notes on how wrong some places sat within the game compared to the world map). But I'm sure it's the world map that they are basing the break up of the continent, not the orientation of the zones themselves. Surefall Glade on the world map is to the north and given Blackburrow was to the right of Surefall Glade (looking at SG from the front) in the game that must be where it is on the world map if I had to make an estimation. I just looked through the in game maps and traveled the zones themselves and right now their accurate and given the considerations I posted earlier EQ1 and EQ2 match up very well. Now that Cusashorn brought it up, I do remember in one of the Blackburrow lore books that it was mentioned how they had to go deeper into their tunnels to avoid the horde. I don't remember if they also mentioned ever taking their original home back however. I am assuming they had though because the long waterfall pit is a very distinctive feature of Blackburrow of old and new as well as the trapped tree stump. It could be that they are creatures of intense habit and rebuilt those features but I'm going to have to go, for now, with that they didn't. It would be nice if a Dev could intervene and explain the zone connections but I know that's gotta be a pipe dream that. lol </blockquote>

RockLee

08-08-2007, 01:45 AM

I would have to say, about the Sarnak's alignment, that they should be entirely neutral. On EQLive i became ally faction with the Sarnak's in Chardok by killing off Chardok B and i was a Wood Elf Ranger. Because anyone playing that game could have eventually became ally with them means that even now in EQ2 that they should be neutral. There is no way for them to be just evil. Now i think that you would be able to play with them only starting in the new city and they would be able to betray to either of the other cities if they choose to. As to what classes they could start out as... I'm not too sure how that would work. If they were only able to choose neutral classes than they wouldn't be able to become any classes that are just good or just evil. So about the only way to decide on how the classes would work out would be that they could pick any class to be right off the bat, they can be a Mystic or Defiler and start off at their city. That would be the only way to make it totally neutral that i can see.

Sarkoris

08-08-2007, 05:05 AM

My sole concern out of all of this is that Iksar can betray to Gorowyn. I know many elves feel ripped off that New Tunaria aka Felwithe was not made a playable city. But at least you get to move back close to your old starting area (high elves) or home (wood elves). But if Iksar cannot even move back to their old home continent we have it worse. Not only is our old starting city toasted (Cabilis), if we are ruled out of a Kunark city based on alignment then we have only one home. Fp. Yes we can start in Neriak but that makes about as much historical sense as Rivervale bcoming home to Ogres.Sark.

Vonotar

08-08-2007, 06:19 AM

Cusashorn

08-08-2007, 12:17 PM

Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote: <blockquote>Snowdonia@Runnyeye wrote:Actually I'm not, the game world map supports my theory: <img src="http://www.elementsofarcadia.org.uk/scrn/missing.jpg" border="0"> The area in green does not appear on either the Antonica Map (YELLOW) or the Thundering Steppes Map (PINK) (orange denotes the area south of TS impassible because of mountains). The world map stayed the same when Darklight Woods was rediscovered, because it had always appeared on the map, people just incorrectly believed they were looking at part of Nek Forest. I predict this to be the location of the hidden good city. Incidentally the dev's have already said that HALAS has moved from it's old position (as quoted elsewhere in this thread). We had a shattering which has moved and mixed a lot of the continental mass. </blockquote>Umm. Not to throw a monkey wrench into your gearworks, but if Thundering Steppes is everything that is encompassed in the Pink border, then how is there a Coast and a Dock on the east side?

Norrsken

08-08-2007, 12:32 PM

omg. broken quote.

duranvaer

08-08-2007, 02:17 PM

I think if the new city will be neutral, some suggestions for new professions are:For the Summoner class then you could create a Sorcerer or Diviner profession for neutrals.For the Rogue class perhaps Buccaneer or Marauder as the neutral profession.For the Predator class perhaps Sniper or Bandit as neutral profession.

Leatherneck

08-08-2007, 03:05 PM

<cite>Saavedra wrote:</cite><blockquote>While we did mention in the ROK discussions at FF that Gorowyn is leaning towards being an evil starting city, this is not set in stone. We have gone back and forth on the issue a couple times already at the office, and we just haven't come to a final decision yet. My personal preference is that of neutral at this time, but I would love to hear some opinions on the matter.My reasoning for wanting neutrality is solely based in the fact that I like the idea of the Sarnak not particularly leaning one way or the other in terms of right and wrong, largely due to the fact that they haven't come into their own yet in terms of society thanks to their isolation.</blockquote> I would much prefer Gorowyn to be "neutral". I don't see Sarnak's playing well in the whole Good vs Evil moral structure.I personally would make the city potentially open to all to varying degrees. A certain amount of faction work to get done to get into the city, and a fair amount of work done to get the right to live there.

Cusashorn

08-08-2007, 04:31 PM

<cite>duranvaer wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think if the new city will be neutral, some suggestions for new professions are:For the Summoner class then you could create a Sorcerer or Diviner profession for neutrals.For the Rogue class perhaps Buccaneer or Marauder as the neutral profession.For the Predator class perhaps Sniper or Bandit as neutral profession.</blockquote>They're not putting in new classes. Also: A bandit by generic definition, is a rogue.

Vonotar

08-08-2007, 05:14 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote: <blockquote>Snowdonia@Runnyeye wrote:Actually I'm not, the game world map supports my theory: <img src="http://www.elementsofarcadia.org.uk/scrn/missing.jpg" border="0"> The area in green does not appear on either the Antonica Map (YELLOW) or the Thundering Steppes Map (PINK) (orange denotes the area south of TS impassible because of mountains). The world map stayed the same when Darklight Woods was rediscovered, because it had always appeared on the map, people just incorrectly believed they were looking at part of Nek Forest. I predict this to be the location of the hidden good city. Incidentally the dev's have already said that HALAS has moved from it's old position (as quoted elsewhere in this thread). We had a shattering which has moved and mixed a lot of the continental mass. </blockquote>Umm. Not to throw a monkey wrench into your gearworks, but if Thundering Steppes is everything that is encompassed in the Pink border, then how is there a Coast and a Dock on the east side? </blockquote> Yeah ok, I might have got the proportions wrong between the pink TS area and it's impassable mountain range... But the fact remains that the green area, it's coastal shape etc, does not appear on either the Antonica or TS map in the game... that's the unaccounted for area.

Blumfield

08-08-2007, 05:30 PM

Bloodravenger@Mistmoore wrote: <blockquote> A true Neutral city would be haven aligned. I doubt they want that it would disbalance PVP servers which they seem to striclty want evil or good hence the specialty aligned armor and such. </blockquote> A neutral city by definition isn't alligned with any faction (or any non-faction, as it were).The FP/Q PvP armor requires players to be citizens of FP/Q. It could be impossible for Sarnaks to become citizens of qeynos or freeport, thus eliminating PvP balance concerns.From a lore perspective, the Sarnaks are an oppressed race, much like the froglocks have been for part of their history. As such they could be cast as evil, neutral, or good--really up to the devs, how they want to spin the story. The most difficult story to make plausible would be that the Sarnaks have turned to good, but it could be done. The other two options are easy to write. The decision ultimately should come down to what will maximise Sony's revenue (and trust me, it will). =)Schmutzen

Deadrus

08-08-2007, 06:18 PM

Snowdonia@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote>Vonotar, You can't just discredit the world map itself. <img src="http://www.ulujain.org/temp/eq2wm.jpg" border="0"> That is the current in game world map. TS on the world map isn't quite orientated the way you have it. I'm also of the opinion that the zone map for TS is a bit enlarged from it's true size because looking at the Ant island on the world map and matching up its borders with the borders of the Ant and TS zone maps, you're actually arbitrarily cutting off a border supported by both maps by using the current TS zone map size. Plus, it doesn't match up the waterfall zone in to TS from Ant. For example: <img src="http://www.ulujain.org/temp/anttszonecon.jpg" border="0"> Those are my maps in game and my markers at each of the Ant/TS connections. The TS map just isn't to scale. But the fact is, Halas was never close enough to that area to be "tucked away" there. It had Rivervale, the Thicket, the Pines, and more between it and Antonica. I can concede that when matching the borders of the Ant and TS maps with the wold map there is a small portion of land that is unaccounted for, but I don't believe this is where Halas will be. Wildmage, You're right, when in the game itself places never quite sat where they showed to be sitting on the world map (NSEW wise and I was constantly making notes on how wrong some places sat within the game compared to the world map). But I'm sure it's the world map that they are basing the break up of the continent, not the orientation of the zones themselves. Surefall Glade on the world map is to the north and given Blackburrow was to the right of Surefall Glade (looking at SG from the front) in the game that must be where it is on the world map if I had to make an estimation. Now that Cusashorn brought it up, I do remember in one of the Blackburrow lore books that it was mentioned how they had to go deeper into their tunnels to avoid the horde. I don't remember if they also mentioned ever taking their original home back however. I am assuming they had though because the long waterfall pit is a very distinctive feature of Blackburrow of old and new as well as the trapped tree stump. It could be that they are creatures of intense habit and rebuilt those features but I'm going to have to go, for now, with that they didn't. It would be nice if a Dev could intervene and explain the zone connections but I know that's gotta be a pipe dream that. lol </blockquote>LOL the fact is YOU CAN DISCREDIT the world map itself because it's way out of porportoin. The fact is Faydwer should be as most of thoes landmasses put togeather. We are still missing qute a bit of what was Antoinica and the Faydwer is about half as big as the whole contenant of Old Antonica. So the map isnt exactly Acutate when it comes to scale. I think the whole world map need to be redone and Id love to see the zonemaps redone as well some of them really need it. I know they are doing some kind of new maping system some time but onlything we konw is that it wont be out untill after ROK. I'm really hopeing it will be soon after ROK because they really need a new system. I think it would make sence to put it out with or before ROK so they dont make one set of maps for ROK then compleatly redo them with this new system. But what ever they do I hope they give us better maps and maps to a more acurate scale. Some one else said that people just mistaked Darklight woods for part of Nekforest. But when it comes down to it Darklight woods really is just a part of Nekforest since Neriak itself was in Nekforst in eq1 so it would make sence that Darklight woods is just a rediscoverd part of Nek forest.

Lornick

08-08-2007, 07:33 PM

I'm in favor of the Sarnak city being evil based. However if they make it neutral my opinion is that only neutral races and classes should be able to start there. So Guardians, Berserkers, Furies, Wardens, Wizards, Warlocks, Dirges, and Troubadors should be the only classes able to start from a neutral city imho. Otherwise it isn't neutral is it?

Leatherneck

08-08-2007, 07:40 PM

Kinda depends. Their intent might have been to model it somewhat on the Drakkan race/city from EQ1 where necros and paladins, sk's and clerics all come from the same city and same society.

Uumuuanu

08-08-2007, 07:50 PM

IMHO if they create a new good city, it needs to be an utter trashheap. Scrounged wood for everybuilding, dust blowing in the streets, not a single plant in sight.Why you ask? Because, Qeynos is pretty and beautiful, Kelethin is a giant forest of nature vs Freeport looks like someone sprayed the whole thing with weedkiller and Neriak is a giant wormtunnel. Goodies can't always have beauty and perfection, they need some hard times. They need to live in a stale lifeless environment like evil toons have to do. Make it fair or don't make it!

Lornick

08-08-2007, 07:54 PM

<cite>Uumuuanu wrote:</cite><blockquote>IMHO if they create a new good city, it needs to be an utter trashheap. Scrounged wood for everybuilding, dust blowing in the streets, not a single plant in sight.Why you ask? Because, Qeynos is pretty and beautiful, Kelethin is a giant forest of nature vs Freeport looks like someone sprayed the whole thing with weedkiller and Neriak is a giant wormtunnel. Goodies can't always have beauty and perfection, they need some hard times. They need to live in a stale lifeless environment like evil toons have to do. Make it fair or don't make it!</blockquote>It isn't the Qeynosians fault that Freeport didn't provide their citizens with basic gardening skills =p Here's a hint though... plants tend to like water.

gravemo

08-08-2007, 08:11 PM

For reference sake from eqatlas.com of EQ1 zone connections:<img src="http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/5504/wantonicaflipvt3.jpg" border="0">

Snowdonia

08-08-2007, 08:30 PM

<cite>Lornick wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm in favor of the Sarnak city being evil based. However if they make it neutral my opinion is that only neutral races and classes should be able to start there. So Guardians, Berserkers, Furies, Wardens, Wizards, Warlocks, Dirges, and Troubadors should be the only classes able to start from a neutral city imho. Otherwise it isn't neutral is it?</blockquote>And that just wouldn't work for EQII. If they did that it would cut out from anyone starting in Gorowyn more than half of the available classes because they could NEVER be them, even if they betrayed. That's just bad mechanics if they do it the way you want.

Wildmage

08-08-2007, 09:02 PM

<cite>Uumuuanu wrote:</cite><blockquote>IMHO if they create a new good city, it needs to be an utter trashheap. Scrounged wood for everybuilding, dust blowing in the streets, not a single plant in sight.Why you ask? Because, Qeynos is pretty and beautiful, Kelethin is a giant forest of nature vs Freeport looks like someone sprayed the whole thing with weedkiller and Neriak is a giant wormtunnel. Goodies can't always have beauty and perfection, they need some hard times. They need to live in a stale lifeless environment like evil toons have to do. Make it fair or don't make it!</blockquote>the buildings there are beautiful no they didn't decorate the CAVE walls the city is in do you go outside and hang drapes on the trees in your yard?

Lornick

08-08-2007, 09:54 PM

Snowdonia@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote><cite>Lornick wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm in favor of the Sarnak city being evil based. However if they make it neutral my opinion is that only neutral races and classes should be able to start there. So Guardians, Berserkers, Furies, Wardens, Wizards, Warlocks, Dirges, and Troubadors should be the only classes able to start from a neutral city imho. Otherwise it isn't neutral is it?</blockquote>And that just wouldn't work for EQII. If they did that it would cut out from anyone starting in Gorowyn more than half of the available classes because they could NEVER be them, even if they betrayed. That's just bad mechanics if they do it the way you want. </blockquote>That's why I said first and foremost that I'm in favor of Sarnak city being evil based. If, IF, the city is "neutral" then I don't see how it can possibly allow any class to start there. A paladin is inherently good. There is no middle ground with the class. A shadowknight is inherently evil. Again... no middle ground here. Now the obvious workaround to allow Sarnaks access to all classes would be to allow them to start in other cities besides Gorowyn. But once again. I'm in favor of Gorowyn being an evil starting city. It can be "less evil" if that's how the devs want the lore to be, but they need to pick a team imho. The concept of a nuetral city just has too many holes in it with the current classes imho. Too many of the classes just would absolutely under no circumstances live together. If we still had that system where players went through the class phase before picking a final subclass it would be one thing. Otherwise I think some of the good and evil classes need to be reconsidered as neutral. Like there really isn't a reason why a conjurer, ranger, monk, mystic, or swashbuckler couldn't be nuetral/evil classes imho. It was done more to balance the number of "good only" vs "evil only" classes as opposed to logic. You would probably have a hard time getting a dev to admit it on record, but I bet most of them would prefer to combine some of the subclasses in retrospect. Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent here.

Dragowulf

08-08-2007, 10:01 PM

How about have the race that start in gorowyn pick good or evil right off the bat, depending on which class you choose?

Lornick

08-08-2007, 10:16 PM

<cite>Dragowulf2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>How about have the race that start in gorowyn pick good or evil right off the bat, depending on which class you choose?</blockquote> So your saying Gorowyn shouldn't be neutral, good, or evil. It should be both good and evil. There is a significant difference from neutral and the combo of good and evil. It's an interesting idea, but I still have a hard time swallowing paladins and shadowknights holding hands in their newbie levels. I would prefer that over the word "neutral" though.

Deadrus

08-09-2007, 01:07 PM

It should just be evil because evils cant get Faydwer writs in Kelethin any more so we are restricted to KoS writs and Neriak doent really have any writs for us to do. So RoK should be evil city for evil people to get writs then maybe open up a good city thatll come in a live even like neriak that doent really have any benefit then just a new place to start. Woot evils are the only ones that will get lv 80 writs and goods will be suck with lv 70. I think thats completely fair since they took the EoF Writs away from us evils.

CalladenWaterford

08-09-2007, 01:16 PM

I don't see why it couldn't be both. Freeport and Qeynos was divided between the Knights of Truth/Storms, Neutral Factions, and the worshippers of evil (Inny and Bertox respectively, or maybe I'm wrong there). The Erudites were split into two cities, but they were originally together. So the precedent for cities having a wide range of allignment is definately there.I'm on a PvE server, but the PvP would probably work out.

Vonotar

08-09-2007, 01:20 PM

<cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote>It should just be evil because evils cant get Faydwer writs in Kelethin any more so we are restricted to KoS writs and Neriak doent really have any writs for us to do. So RoK should be evil city for evil people to get writs then maybe open up a good city thatll come in a live even like neriak that doent really have any benefit then just a new place to start. Woot evils are the only ones that will get lv 80 writs and goods will be suck with lv 70. I think thats completely fair since they took the EoF Writs away from us evils. </blockquote> The Writs is a good point... I'm gonna pinch that and add it to what I said earlier *cackle* . . Possible balancing of the cities: QEYNOS - Good, KOS Evil, Original City, 4 Writ Factions FREEPORT - Evil, KOS Good, Original City, 4 Writ Factions KELETHIN - Good-Neutral, No KOS, EOF New City, New Continent, Distanced from old world zones, 4 Writ Factions GORROWYN - Evil-Neutral, No KOS, ROK New City, New Continent, Distanced from old world zone, 4 Writ Factions "HALAS" - Good, KOS Evil, ROK + 6 months GU, Borders Antonica & Thundering Steppes (possibly east of Antonican Mountains), 1 'City' Writ Faction NERIAK - Evil, KOS Good, EOF + 6 months GU, Borders Commonlands & Nek Forest (north of Commonlands Mountains), 1 'City' Writ Faction The more I think of it... the more convinced I am that Gorrowyn is going to be the evil version of Kelethin, with a good version of Neriak soon after.

Jedi_Knight_Jr

08-11-2007, 04:18 PM

This whole good,evil,nuetral thing made me think. Why can Frogloks start out evil or good. In Eq1 they can start as evil classes now right?

Cusashorn

08-11-2007, 04:43 PM

<cite>Jedi_Knight_Jr wrote:</cite><blockquote>This whole good,evil,nuetral thing made me think. Why can Frogloks start out evil or good. In Eq1 they can start as evil classes now right?</blockquote> Frogloks can be evil classes in EQlive due to a change that happened well after EQ2 came out. They were good when EQ2 started, and they're still good because of it.

ke'la

08-11-2007, 06:11 PM

Bloodravenger@Mistmoore wrote: <blockquote>aye the ROYAL guards are kill on sight... If this was a nuetral city you would not get attacked anywhere.</blockquote> Fixed. The only kos guards in Kelethin are the 4 or 5 that are near the queen the others don't have a problem with evils being in the city, otherwise you would die on the Acorn access ramps, or to the 2 or 3 guards that wander the city.

ke'la

08-11-2007, 06:31 PM

<cite>Deadrus wrote:</cite><blockquote>Snowdonia@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote>Vonotar, You can't just discredit the world map itself. <img src="http://www.ulujain.org/temp/eq2wm.jpg" border="0"> That is the current in game world map. TS on the world map isn't quite orientated the way you have it. I'm also of the opinion that the zone map for TS is a bit enlarged from it's true size because looking at the Ant island on the world map and matching up its borders with the borders of the Ant and TS zone maps, you're actually arbitrarily cutting off a border supported by both maps by using the current TS zone map size. Plus, it doesn't match up the waterfall zone in to TS from Ant. For example: <img src="http://www.ulujain.org/temp/anttszonecon.jpg" border="0"> Those are my maps in game and my markers at each of the Ant/TS connections. The TS map just isn't to scale. But the fact is, Halas was never close enough to that area to be "tucked away" there. It had Rivervale, the Thicket, the Pines, and more between it and Antonica. I can concede that when matching the borders of the Ant and TS maps with the wold map there is a small portion of land that is unaccounted for, but I don't believe this is where Halas will be. Wildmage, You're right, when in the game itself places never quite sat where they showed to be sitting on the world map (NSEW wise and I was constantly making notes on how wrong some places sat within the game compared to the world map). But I'm sure it's the world map that they are basing the break up of the continent, not the orientation of the zones themselves. Surefall Glade on the world map is to the north and given Blackburrow was to the right of Surefall Glade (looking at SG from the front) in the game that must be where it is on the world map if I had to make an estimation. Now that Cusashorn brought it up, I do remember in one of the Blackburrow lore books that it was mentioned how they had to go deeper into their tunnels to avoid the horde. I don't remember if they also mentioned ever taking their original home back however. I am assuming they had though because the long waterfall pit is a very distinctive feature of Blackburrow of old and new as well as the trapped tree stump. It could be that they are creatures of intense habit and rebuilt those features but I'm going to have to go, for now, with that they didn't. It would be nice if a Dev could intervene and explain the zone connections but I know that's gotta be a pipe dream that. lol </blockquote>LOL the fact is YOU CAN DISCREDIT the world map itself because it's way out of porportoin. The fact is Faydwer should be as most of thoes landmasses put togeather. We are still missing qute a bit of what was Antoinica and the Faydwer is about half as big as the whole contenant of Old Antonica. So the map isnt exactly Acutate when it comes to scale. I think the whole world map need to be redone and Id love to see the zonemaps redone as well some of them really need it. I know they are doing some kind of new maping system some time but onlything we konw is that it wont be out untill after ROK. I'm really hopeing it will be soon after ROK because they really need a new system. I think it would make sence to put it out with or before ROK so they dont make one set of maps for ROK then compleatly redo them with this new system. But what ever they do I hope they give us better maps and maps to a more acurate scale. Some one else said that people just mistaked Darklight woods for part of Nekforest. But when it comes down to it Darklight woods really is just a part of Nekforest since Neriak itself was in Nekforst in eq1 so it would make sence that Darklight woods is just a rediscoverd part of Nek forest. </blockquote> Not only can I discredit it. I have it direct from the dev working on the map prodject at Fan Fair. The ingame World Map is NOT accurate at all, the one you see at player creation is slightly more accurate(though thats like saying the 1600 maps of the Western US is more accurate then the 1500s maps).As part of the new map system, they are going to improve the accuracy of the World map.

Vonotar

08-15-2007, 08:36 AM

I would prefer an explorers 'map of the known world' type of map. i.e. if a mountain range doesn't currently have a known zone behind it, it would appear on the map with the words "unknown territories" or something similiar. "here be dragons" is a particular favourite. Early world maps (of earth) would show northern africa but not any indication of what lands lay further south. When the 'new world' was discovered maps would show the east coast of north america, but south america (not yet discovered) would be missing. The in-game world map should not be like a 'satellite photo' level of accuracy.

Lightstrider

08-16-2007, 07:57 AM

Perhaps the Sarnak city could be an "open" city, as one of the posters above suggested--a city without alignment, where people of all alignments come and go. There is precedent for this even in the history of Earth--cities in which adversaries had a grudging peace and coexisted. You could have neighborhoods that leaned more one way or the other, if you wanted. Interesting thought. If the Sarnak city is evil and we need a new good city, my bet is on Erudin as part of the Odus expansion (or Odus Live Update, if they go that route).

Tae

08-16-2007, 12:16 PM

ke'la wrote: <blockquote>Fixed. The only kos guards in Kelethin are the 4 or 5 that are near the queen the others don't have a problem with evils being in the city, otherwise you would die on the Acorn access ramps, or to the 2 or 3 guards that wander the city.</blockquote>But the city carnage flags an evil player, and only Good players can start there. Plus they share a broker and chat channels with Qeynos. At least on PvP, I've never played on a PvM server. Kelethin is not a neutral city, it is a good one. I feel it would be unfair to make the Sarnak city anything other than evil. Neriak is not even half as good as Kelethin, which has access to an entire new continent and a zone where newbies can level totally unmolested. Then, give the good side a city and a zone on their home island (which nobody will ever go to, just like Neriak). Balance restored. Having a neutral city would open up a massive can of worms on PvP servers, creating an entirely new and confusing faction. If they could have every class, no doubt a lot of people would switch to them as well.

ke'la

08-16-2007, 01:29 PM

Taear@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>ke'la wrote: <blockquote>Fixed. The only kos guards in Kelethin are the 4 or 5 that are near the queen the others don't have a problem with evils being in the city, otherwise you would die on the Acorn access ramps, or to the 2 or 3 guards that wander the city.</blockquote>But the city carnage flags an evil player, and only Good players can start there. Plus they share a broker and chat channels with Qeynos. At least on PvP, I've never played on a PvM server. Kelethin is not a neutral city, it is a good one.Good Alined Neutral City, means that they don't Like evil people but are not going to activly keep bad people out. In a PvP envirment(witch has no barring on anything as they have said they won't mess with the Lore for PvP balance) that means people point look evil person(carnage flag) but the NPCs don't attack you, unlike the lvl 70 Epics in Neriak. I feel it would be unfair to make the Sarnak city anything other than evil. Neriak is not even half as good as Kelethin, which has access to an entire new continent and a zone where newbies can level totally unmolested. Then, give the good side a city and a zone on their home island (which nobody will ever go to, just like Neriak).You are aware that it does not matter if Sarnaks start in RoK or not the city will be just like Neriak where after about lvl20ish, they will have to move on to either EoF or Classic EQ2 to lvl. And I am sorry I think having lvl70 epics wondering your city while Kelethin has only lvl25 heroics at best, balances out the distance differances nicly. And btw more people start in Neriak then anyother city game wide currently. Balance restored. Having a neutral city would open up a massive can of worms on PvP servers, creating an entirely new and confusing faction. If they could have every class, no doubt a lot of people would switch to them as well.A) they would not have every class the devs would pick and choose the most apealling ones to the Sarnak and those 12 classes would begin there. Could be that for the Sarnak hometown both Brawlers and Monks are welcome but they have no need of Guardians because they are more conserned with thier own glory then protecting others. So for Fighters it could be Zerker, SK, Monk, and Brawler. B) as far as PvP goes its simple there are now 3 full factions fighting + Exile instead of two, this also would allow for a second Neutral Faction city to enter the PvP Fray latter on. </blockquote>

ke'la

08-16-2007, 01:37 PM

Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote: <blockquote>I would prefer an explorers 'map of the known world' type of map. i.e. if a mountain range doesn't currently have a known zone behind it, it would appear on the map with the words "unknown territories" or something similiar. "here be dragons" is a particular favourite. Early world maps (of earth) would show northern africa but not any indication of what lands lay further south. When the 'new world' was discovered maps would show the east coast of north america, but south america (not yet discovered) would be missing. The in-game world map should not be like a 'satellite photo' level of accuracy. </blockquote> How about something along the lines of this<img src="http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n65/kela_012/Fan%20Fair%202007/IMG_0091.jpg" border="0">A pic of what Antonica looks like as part of the Map upgrade project.

Kindayr

08-16-2007, 01:41 PM

That looks so amazing, i just hope they fix the colouring a little, and that'd be awesome.

Cusashorn

08-16-2007, 02:03 PM

Map Upgrade project? They're changing the map system to be more refined? That is cool.

ke'la

08-16-2007, 02:30 PM

<cite>Kindayr wrote:</cite><blockquote>That looks so amazing, i just hope they fix the colouring a little, and that'd be awesome.</blockquote> Don't judge the coloring by that pic. It was taken from a projected Image in a fairly bright room, that is NOT a screen cap, I also think I accually had to put my finger on the flash to keep the flash from firing. It is alot brighter and the coloring is much better "in person"

ke'la

08-16-2007, 02:33 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Map Upgrade project? They're changing the map system to be more refined? That is cool.</blockquote> Aye, they plan to make the large Map a full page map and then give you a Mini-map that is always on. They are also planing on doing alot to keep the EQ2maps project intgrated into the map system. All of this is really still in the extreem early stages of development, like atleast 6-9months or so out from the way they are talking(oviously no firm dates given, heck this project didn't even get put in the Soon(tm) time frame)

Tae

08-16-2007, 08:43 PM

ke'la wrote: <blockquote>Taear@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>And btw more people start in Neriak then anyother city game wide currently. as far as PvP goes its simple there are now 3 full factions fighting + Exile instead of two, this also would allow for a second Neutral Faction city to enter the PvP Fray latter on. </blockquote></blockquote>Many of them then betray to Freeport. It's just a lot easier to get around (carpets, especially). Plus, there's barely enough people to support three factions, LET ALONE a fourth. And if said fourth has PvP gear and all the classes then everyone will join it. If it doesn't have PvP gear but has all the classes, then there will then be no exiles. It would just be plain awful. Make it an evil Kelethin, give the good side a rubbishy home continent city with a DLW, where there's thousands of quests and therefore it's packed with everyone ever. It's the best way of balancing it, by far.

Armawk

08-16-2007, 09:06 PM

ke'la wrote: <blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Map Upgrade project? They're changing the map system to be more refined? That is cool.</blockquote> Aye, they plan to make the large Map a full page map and then give you a Mini-map that is always on. They are also planing on doing alot to keep the EQ2maps project intgrated into the map system. All of this is really still in the extreem early stages of development, like atleast 6-9months or so out from the way they are talking(oviously no firm dates given, heck this project didn't even get put in the Soon(tm) time frame)</blockquote> I hope so much that they let the map window be a normal game window, that is framed, sizeable, zoomable, transparent etc.. not the screen swallowing information free nonsense from other games, and make it so you can look at the map and keep playing at the same time. If they do that and yet get the size and quality in there eq2 will have a uniquely good map system.

GwenRelentless

08-21-2007, 04:51 PM

Ohh nice I can't wait for new maps! I've always thought the current ones are kinda vague and in some cases it's hard to tell if an area is a mountain or a valley, or whether you can run there or not. Also since this game occurs on Norrath, of course people are going to be extremely interested in figuring out exactly what happened to the old planet to arrive at what we have in the sequel. I'm really surprised the devs didnt think about this and give us a really accurate world map from the beginning. Anyways I can't wait to see the new world map. Understanding where you are and how the world fits together will give the game some much needed immersiveness. As far as the faction of the new Sarnak city... I think there ought to be a new faction completely. I'm so sick of the good vs evil thing and I really think its a dead end. Players are really getting bored with it. Eq1 had it right, even a fantasy world isn't always cut and dry good vs evil. A much more interesting world has factions and politics, and so should Eq2. Therefore the new city should not be aligned with either Qeynos or Freeport but should be it's own faction, which perhaps leans toward the side of evil, but maybe not as insanely evil as Lucan's Freeport.

Vonotar

08-23-2007, 12:13 PM

<cite>GwenRelentless wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ohh nice I can't wait for new maps! I've always thought the current ones are kinda vague and in some cases it's hard to tell if an area is a mountain or a valley, or whether you can run there or not. </blockquote>Amen to that... Greater Fay is the work of the devil, or at least the map of Greater Fay is! I've lost track of the number of times I have gone the wrong way believing I am following a valley on the map.Considering the size of the zone, it is impossible to see proper details on the g'fay map.

Kimage

08-24-2007, 04:56 PM

ok I know that I am a little late in my replies here... Sarnak classes ( which btw I am for a neutral city ) should be all classes ( though this would give PVP advantage ) or if they split up the classes mix them up a bit.Fighters: Zerker Monk Bruiser SK Mages: Illusionist Wizard Warlock NecroPriest: Temp Inquis Defiler WardenScout: Ranger Troub Swashy Brig Just my 2cp As for the undating of the maps. One word. WWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTTTTT!

DerykRenaln

08-25-2007, 01:29 AM

I'll vote for a new good city. I would think that Halflings need some love. Let's see Rivervale get cleaned up, the heros and villains (naughty-folk side [Freeport]) of Norrath have pretty much cleaned up Rivervale numerous times. Let's see this zone become a working player city with halfling-sized houses! Short folk need smaller wee-folk sized housing and furniture!I know Rivervale has been mentioned before, plus it'd bring people back to a favorite old zone and keep the love going for old zones!<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

StrafaeSwiftleaf

08-27-2007, 06:52 PM

We so need Rivervale back, its the logical step for the next goody player city. But make us work for it via live event invasion of the vale.

Leatherneck

08-27-2007, 07:25 PM

I don't know that I really get why we need more cities, especially in the face of guild halls coming out.The only thing I'd really want is a neutral-ish city like Maj'Dul that you didn't have to wait till you were 50-ish before you could realistically move in.

Wildmage

08-27-2007, 08:38 PM

<cite>Rengots@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>We so need Rivervale back, its the logical step for the next goody player city. But make us work for it via live event invasion of the vale.</blockquote>yeah keep beating that dead horse Im sure it will come back to life one day. If they add a new good city it won't be RV it will be a city thats not in game now.

Tae

08-27-2007, 09:07 PM

<cite>Leatherneck wrote:</cite><blockquote>The only thing I'd really want is a neutral-ish city like Maj'Dul that you didn't have to wait till you were 50-ish before you could realistically move in. </blockquote>Does anyone actually live in Maj'dul on the PvM servers? I know there are a few exiles that have houses there on PvP, so they can have their god altars. I can't think of any other reason for having your house there.

StrafaeSwiftleaf

08-28-2007, 11:35 AM

<cite>Wildmage wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rengots@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>We so need Rivervale back, its the logical step for the next goody player city. But make us work for it via live event invasion of the vale.</blockquote>yeah keep beating that dead horse Im sure it will come back to life one day. If they add a new good city it won't be RV it will be a city thats not in game now.</blockquote>Why would revisiting old content that hardly anyone ever visits and improving it, be considered as "beating a dead horse" I for one love live events, it gives the game a feeling of moving forward, rather that staying in a locked instance of time. The more content we get, vie exspantions/ adventure packs, the more the older areas get less and less used. The thing is if you make the world dynamic and possable to change, then you keep the intrest alive. For example, remeber when Fironia Vie got jacked by the dark elves(eq1)? as a wood elf it torked me off, but it also was way cool to think that the various factions could just sack a city, so why not play reclaim/ sack? If the elves even take back felwithe what dark elf wouldnt love to raid/ take the place over? As for Rivervale would not the Overlord love to invade/ "liberate" it just to have dominion over another territory? This kind of stuff would make pvp insain. Whole pvp guilds raiding then taking over a town for his or her faction.

Vonotar

08-28-2007, 11:41 AM

Rivervale is too badly positioned for a newbie zone similiar to neriak. It opens straight on to a T4 zone, you would need to revise Enchanted lands as well, making it a T2 equivalent of DLW/Ant/CL.Any new good starter city will be a fully new city... most likely just off Antonica/TS in a similiar arrangement to Neriak.

Wildmage

08-28-2007, 11:57 AM

<cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rivervale is too badly positioned for a newbie zone similiar to neriak. It opens straight on to a T4 zone, you would need to revise Enchanted lands as well, making it a T2 equivalent of DLW/Ant/CL.Any new good starter city will be a fully new city... most likely just off Antonica/TS in a similiar arrangement to Neriak.</blockquote>I'd say its more likely the next good city will be sometime next year, either free content addition of Halas or more likely a good city will be available in the next expansion which I think is likely to be Odus.

Vonotar

08-28-2007, 12:14 PM

<cite>Wildmage wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rivervale is too badly positioned for a newbie zone similiar to neriak. It opens straight on to a T4 zone, you would need to revise Enchanted lands as well, making it a T2 equivalent of DLW/Ant/CL.Any new good starter city will be a fully new city... most likely just off Antonica/TS in a similiar arrangement to Neriak.</blockquote>I'd say its more likely the next good city will be sometime next year, either free content addition of Halas or more likely a good city will be available in the next expansion which I think is likely to be Odus.</blockquote>Halas as a free content addition is my guess too (as per my earlier posts). Most likely in a location to the east of Antonica (behind the SH mountains).

Leatherneck

08-28-2007, 01:11 PM

<cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Leatherneck wrote:</cite><blockquote>The only thing I'd really want is a neutral-ish city like Maj'Dul that you didn't have to wait till you were 50-ish before you could realistically move in. </blockquote>Does anyone actually live in Maj'dul on the PvM servers? I know there are a few exiles that have houses there on PvP, so they can have their god altars. I can't think of any other reason for having your house there.</blockquote>Most people don't live there. It's kind of a PITA to get citizenship for and it's too removed from much of the content to be of use.However, I believe a neutralish city that wasn't annoying to get into and was positioned to be at least comparably easy to get to content from would go over well.

ke'la

08-28-2007, 02:16 PM

<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote>ke'la wrote:<blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Map Upgrade project? They're changing the map system to be more refined? That is cool.</blockquote>Aye, they plan to make the large Map a full page map and then give you a Mini-map that is always on. They are also planing on doing alot to keep the EQ2maps project intgrated into the map system. All of this is really still in the extreem early stages of development, like atleast 6-9months or so out from the way they are talking(oviously no firm dates given, heck this project didn't even get put in the Soon(tm) time frame)</blockquote>I hope so much that they let the map window be a normal game window, that is framed, sizeable, zoomable, transparent etc.. not the screen swallowing information free nonsense from other games, and make it so you can look at the map and keep playing at the same time. If they do that and yet get the size and quality in there eq2 will have a uniquely good map system.</blockquote>They do plan for the map to be full screen however it WILL NOT be void of info, they are talking things like live search for quest locs and stuff, again all in the early planing stages, however they are talking to the EQ2maps people so that THEY can add the Spoiler stuff to the map as well as the stuff that SoE puts on it.

ke'la

08-28-2007, 02:29 PM

<cite>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rivervale is too badly positioned for a newbie zone similiar to neriak. It opens straight on to a T4 zone, you would need to revise Enchanted lands as well, making it a T2 equivalent of DLW/Ant/CL.Any new good starter city will be a fully new city... most likely just off Antonica/TS in a similiar arrangement to Neriak.</blockquote>Accually I think RV is big enough for content from 1-20ish, but consitering that would still make EL Red to anyone leaving RV, as its a 30+ zone they would have to Drop EL from T4 to T3 or make it a combo zone and keep the back area T4 while the area near RV and the area between RV and the Docks T3.

Sassinak

08-28-2007, 03:52 PM

If they want to make Rivervale a starting zone, then I suggest they push a new exit at the east end of Rivervale, connecting to Nektulos Forest somewhere near the beach.Put level 1-20 content in Rivervale itself (it is as big as Darklight Wood after all)Let the players walk into Nektulos for 20-30Let the players walk into EL for 30-40Make Tower of the Drafling a level 20-30 dungeon (precursor to Runnyeye) Here's how it could lay out, with the zone maps roughly to scale:<img src="http://members.shaw.ca/cranberry/nek-el-rivervale.JPG" alt="" border="0" />

KBern

08-28-2007, 04:14 PM

<cite>Zabjade wrote:</cite><blockquote>I guess there will be a need for a 3rd Good city come RoK since the Sanark City is Evil. Makes me wonder will Rivervale push back the invasion in a live event comparable to Kiticor[sp] woods (Changing where you get the nightbloods for Hierophant's Crook), or will Halas be rediscovered, Then again since it is RoK perhaps FV will be resettled?</blockquote>The new good city should be found in Antonica. That would make it about right.

KBern

08-28-2007, 04:22 PM

Regarding the whole neutral race thing, I think the city will still be evil, like FP or Neriak, but you will find Kerrans, Gnomes, Humans, (anymore neutral races?) starting there, but with evil class selections only.

StrafaeSwiftleaf

08-28-2007, 08:25 PM

Cusashorn

08-28-2007, 08:38 PM

<cite>Sassinak wrote:</cite><blockquote>If they want to make Rivervale a starting zone, then I suggest they push a new exit at the east end of Rivervale, connecting to Nektulos Forest somewhere near the beach.Put level 1-20 content in Rivervale itself (it is as big as Darklight Wood after all)Let the players walk into Nektulos for 20-30Let the players walk into EL for 30-40Make Tower of the Drafling a level 20-30 dungeon (precursor to Runnyeye)Here's how it could lay out, with the zone maps roughly to scale:<img src="http://members.shaw.ca/cranberry/nek-el-rivervale.JPG" border="0" alt="" width="747" height="505" /></blockquote>Umm.. It's not like Nektulos forest is right next door. They're miles away from each other. Entire seas seperate the two continents, remember?Anyways, as mentioned above, turning Rivervale into a starting city would require changing Enchanted Lands into a T2 zone.

Wildmage

08-28-2007, 09:46 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sassinak wrote:</cite><blockquote>If they want to make Rivervale a starting zone, then I suggest they push a new exit at the east end of Rivervale, connecting to Nektulos Forest somewhere near the beach.Put level 1-20 content in Rivervale itself (it is as big as Darklight Wood after all)Let the players walk into Nektulos for 20-30Let the players walk into EL for 30-40Make Tower of the Drafling a level 20-30 dungeon (precursor to Runnyeye)Here's how it could lay out, with the zone maps roughly to scale:<img src="http://members.shaw.ca/cranberry/nek-el-rivervale.JPG" border="0" alt="" width="747" height="505" /></blockquote>Umm.. It's not like Nektulos forest is right next door. They're miles away from each other. Entire seas seperate the two continents, remember?Anyways, as mentioned above, turning Rivervale into a starting city would require changing Enchanted Lands into a T2 zone.</blockquote>not to mention having to completely restructure several heritage quests plus several other multizone quests, It WONT HAPPEN! drop it already, if they add a good city it WILL NOT BE RIVERVALE, get over it. Rivervale, Kaladim AK`anon and Felwithe have fallen this isn't EQ1 their lost to us. If your that nostalgic for Rivervale go play EQ1 again.ps. If they added Halas my guess is that it would be north of Antonica on its own island probably west of Everfrost, probably with a connecting tier 1-2 zone made out of the old canyons. of Everfrost.

StrafaeSwiftleaf

08-28-2007, 10:21 PM

according to a Barb in the scale Yard your beloved Halas in under water...

Cusashorn

08-29-2007, 01:24 AM

<cite>Rengots@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>according to a Barb in the scale Yard your beloved Halas in under water... </blockquote>According to Vhalen, it's above water and reclaimed, but not close to Everfrost anymore.

StrafaeSwiftleaf

08-29-2007, 09:54 AM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rengots@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>according to a Barb in the scale Yard your beloved Halas in under water... </blockquote>According to Vhalen, it's above water and reclaimed, but not close to Everfrost anymore.</blockquote>Cool... I always hate when such things are changed and the ingame content conflicts *shrugs* as for a note on rivervale,.. maybe the changes are not needed for a starting city, but rather, one could just MajDul it and live there after a certain level. But im sure it wont happen any time soon.

Vonotar

10-07-2007, 07:27 PM

Random npc's can only tell you what they *think* has happened. Just because a random barbarian says Hallas is sunk doesn't mean that he's right.Anyhow, apologies for the necro-post but Gorrowyn has been confirmed as an evil city of same faction as Freeport:<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=15&topic_id=385252�" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...385252</a>So I guess we can expect a LU delivered good city in the same way as we received Neriak.The only question is how long the Dev's will listen to 'Good only' players complaining that Evils have one more city than them.

Vonotar

10-07-2007, 07:30 PM

Possible balancing of the cities: (confirmed/live parts in yellow) QEYNOS - Good, KOS Evil, Original City, 4 Writ FactionsFREEPORT - Evil, KOS Good, Original City, 4 Writ Factions KELETHIN - Good-Neutral, No KOS, EOF New City, New Continent, Distanced from old world zones, 4 Writ FactionsGORROWYN - Evil-Neutral, No KOS, ROK New City, New Continent, Distanced from old world zone, 4 Writ Factions "HALAS" - Good, KOS Evil, ROK + 6 months GU, Borders Antonica & Thundering Steppes (possibly east of Antonican Mountains), 1 'City' Writ FactionNERIAK - Evil, KOS Good, EOF + 6 months GU, Borders Commonlands & Nek Forest (north of Commonlands Mountains), 1 'City' Writ Faction The more I think of it... the more convinced I am that Gorrowyn is going to be the evil version of Kelethin, with a good version of Neriak (Hallas) soon after.

Vonotar

10-07-2007, 07:48 PM

More info....Savanja: We've heard that the Sarnak will be a neutral race. Being as such, will good and evil classes be starting in the same area? Scott Hartsman: That was one of the ideas that we were working with through the initial prototype, but it didn’t work out cleanly in practice since so many parts of EQ2 require cities to be strongly tied to good or evil. Therefore, the Sarnak are considered Evil from the point of view of the existing residents of Norrath. Their race is predominantly concerned with what’s going on in Kunark, and not yet concerned with what’s happening elsewhere in the world. As such, their home city of Gorowyn is remarkably tolerant of outsiders of both alignments, as long as they’re not overtly hostile.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2.tentonhammer.com/index.php?module=ContentExpress&func=display&ceid=1269" target="_blank">Link</a>This backs up the idea that Gorrowyn and Kelethin will be 'similiar' in that they are both tollerant towards people of all alignments.

Zabjade

10-07-2007, 09:29 PM

So we are looking at possibilities for Halas or Rivervale with Halas seeming to be in the lead, (Means they would have to add a 1-20 area and bell in the eastern mountains and a breakthrough cave to the current Everfrost.) Either that or perhaps the Vhalen eluded to Gatekeep will become avalible east of Dead River docks and possibly showing what happened to the Antonican Spires. It would also be in keeping with having the new cities close to the originals.

Hellswrath

10-08-2007, 06:28 AM

<cite>Magnamundian wrote:</cite><blockquote>This backs up the idea that Gorrowyn and Kelethin will be 'similiar' in that they are both tollerant towards people of all alignments.</blockquote>Please define your idea of tolerant, since Kelethin is KOS-Evil unless you manage to get your faction up high enough to just break out of it. Since most of the guards are greyed-out for capped characters, people think it is good-nuetral.I think what SoE is trying to say is that goodies will not be KOS in Gorowyn. No faction magic required. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

TommyTutone

10-08-2007, 12:29 PM

I'm not huge into what's happened to the world, but couldn't Odus be brought back as a good city? It's near (via boat) to Qeynos, it was home of the Erudites, and it could lead easily into Antonica and Thundering Steppes.

Vonotar

10-08-2007, 01:05 PM

<cite>Hellswrath@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Magnamundian wrote:</cite><blockquote>This backs up the idea that Gorrowyn and Kelethin will be 'similiar' in that they are both tollerant towards people of all alignments.</blockquote>Please define your idea of tolerant, since Kelethin is KOS-Evil unless you manage to get your faction up high enough to just break out of it. Since most of the guards are greyed-out for capped characters, people think it is good-nuetral.I think what SoE is trying to say is that goodies will not be KOS in Gorowyn. No faction magic required. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>I wish people would stop spouting this rubbish, the only part of Kelethin that is KOS to evil's is around the royal court on the highest platform, the entire rest of Kelethin, the surrounding areas, the nursery etc are all evil tolerant, as an evil inclined person I know!This has always been the case and was done by design since day 1.

Gorpier

10-08-2007, 06:54 PM

<cite>Winter wrote:</cite><blockquote>It hasn't been determined for certain that the Sarnak will be evil. One dev even joked - 'they're evil this week'. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>Good point. When the Fae were introduced, we were told that their starting zones would be neutral, then good, then neutral.. then they became good.. I'd say we'll just have to either wait for our chance to play to find out.

einar4

10-08-2007, 07:08 PM

<cite>TommyTutone wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm not huge into what's happened to the world, but couldn't Odus be brought back as a good city? It's near (via boat) to Qeynos, it was home of the Erudites, and it could lead easily into Antonica and Thundering Steppes.</blockquote> Erudin was on the continent of Odus, near to Qeynos in the same way that Faydwer was near to freeport. There was a boat connection in other words. The boat ride was through a very large sea. Erudin and Paineel were the good and evil cities on Odus. The entire continent would probably be worthy of it's own expansion. I would vote for Halas, though I would think it should be part of Everfrost. That is where it was originally. Rivervale is already there, but making it into an actual city may be worthwhile, though it would mean alot of rework. The current Rivervale is one of those t5 zones that are underutilized and do not have a whole lot of continuity, other than being a place where a shadow rift corrupted much of it and Misty Thicket. Zones like EF, LS, and RV always struck me as rushed jobs that turned out a bit shabby. Just big spaces with a bunch of mobs stuffed in. No in-depth story or quest progression there at all. Drafling? JumJum? What?

Deggials

10-10-2007, 07:09 AM

<cite>Ikarri@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TommyTutone wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm not huge into what's happened to the world, but couldn't Odus be brought back as a good city? It's near (via boat) to Qeynos, it was home of the Erudites, and it could lead easily into Antonica and Thundering Steppes.</blockquote> Erudin was on the continent of Odus, near to Qeynos in the same way that Faydwer was near to freeport. There was a boat connection in other words. The boat ride was through a very large sea. Erudin and Paineel were the good and evil cities on Odus. The entire continent would probably be worthy of it's own expansion. I would vote for Halas, though I would think it should be part of Everfrost. That is where it was originally. Rivervale is already there, but making it into an actual city may be worthwhile, though it would mean alot of rework. The current Rivervale is one of those t5 zones that are underutilized and do not have a whole lot of continuity, other than being a place where a shadow rift corrupted much of it and Misty Thicket. Zones like EF, LS, and RV always struck me as rushed jobs that turned out a bit shabby. Just big spaces with a bunch of mobs stuffed in. No in-depth story or quest progression there at all. Drafling? JumJum? What? </blockquote>Im more in favor of Moradhim (caved dwarf city) which has similarites to neriak. Highbourne would be another option had most of the good classes and a few evil ones sks/necros starting there. I think the Rivervale/Halas could go along side grobb/oggok with grobb being closer to say rok, oggok closer to feerot(bring back sphinx pyramid, lake rathe, cyclops fortess etc all were great zones). I do think rivervale much like all tier 5 zones need quests/lore/expansion/zone revamps(not changing difficulty) but quests, quests lines and adding more revive spots.

Vonotar

11-19-2007, 08:34 AM

*Casts "Revive Dead Thread Master II"*OK, now RoK is out and we've had a chance to explore, anybody seen any hints as to what the (inevitable) new Good City will be?If this follows the same trend as Kelethin/Neriak then we're looking for a location somewhere just off Antonica and Thundering Steppes (zone lines to both) and the possibility of a new race to complement the Sarnak.Any thoughts?

Killerbee3000

11-19-2007, 09:17 AM

you get better at thread necroing 243/400<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />i'd say it could go like this: Halas as a new good city, oggok as new content lower - mid lvls, then velious as new highend content....

Vonotar

11-19-2007, 10:32 AM

<cite>Killerbee3000 wrote:</cite><blockquote>you get better at thread necroing 243/400<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />i'd say it could go like this: Halas as a new good city, oggok as new content lower - mid lvls, then velious as new highend content.... </blockquote>Hummm, that might work as next years full expansion, but I was thinking more along the lines of the two-zone LU similiar to Neriak-Darklight.Given the distribution of races at the moment, whatever is added should be a natural home for halflings and frogloks that are currently restricted to just Qeynos or *errr* Qeynos (and I don't mean Rivervale before anybody suggests that).Just a thought, but another underground/mountainous area sandwiched into the current Antonica-Thundering Steppes zone in (the one behind the waterfall in Antonica, not the main one) would be ideal.

MuliganVanJurai

11-19-2007, 10:41 AM

You can bet it will probably be a "winter" city of some sort to eventually lead to Velious. I'm hoping it will be a Halas and not some twist on Thurgadin. I never did understand why, in EQ1, they didn't place Velious mainly in Everfrost/Halas instead of continually spreading out the game and leaving zones dormant.It would even be cool to release the a winter city for Christmas? haha I know they have alot on their plate and would rather have epics and such roll out for Christmas. Take care,Muli

Drachan

11-19-2007, 01:02 PM

Well, Eq1 Everfrost and EQ2 Everfrost aren't exactly the same thing, so bringing back Halas with a rediscovered part of Everfrost for level 1-20 shouldn't be a problem. Connect it to that tunnel in Blackburrow and everything is fine.Most important: Give us some more snow *sigh*

Vonotar

11-19-2007, 02:27 PM

<cite>Banedon@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote> Possible balancing of the cities: (confirmed/live parts in yellow) QEYNOS - Good, KOS Evil, Original City, 4 Writ FactionsFREEPORT - Evil, KOS Good, Original City, 4 Writ Factions KELETHIN - Good-Neutral, No KOS, EOF New City, New Continent, Distanced from old world zones, 4 Writ FactionsGORROWYN - Evil-Neutral, No KOS, ROK New City, New Continent, Distanced from old world zone, 4 Writ Factions "HALAS" - Good, KOS Evil, ROK + 6 months GU, Borders Antonica & Thundering Steppes (possibly east of Antonican Mountains), 1 'City' Writ FactionNERIAK - Evil, KOS Good, EOF + 6 months GU, Borders Commonlands & Nek Forest (north of Commonlands Mountains), 1 'City' Writ Faction The more I think of it... the more convinced I am that Gorrowyn is going to be the evil version of Kelethin, with a good version of Neriak (Hallas) soon after.</blockquote>I posted the above some time ago, can anybody confirm if Gorrowyn has four writ factions like Kele, Qeynos and Freeport, or if it only has one like Neriak?