More pelts from traps? Not for me, but what are others seeing?

[Oakleafe]

GU37 Change - "Other harvesting changes should result in pelts being a bit more plentiful than meats" I've had 5 harvesting trips now and if anything I'd say I am getting more meat than I used to from traps.  On any significantly long enough harvesting trip I nearly always had more pelts than I had of each type of meat.  Nearly always more meat in total, but the number of pelts would usually be higher than each single total of each meat. Since GU37 this has not been the case.  On all but one occasion I've had less pelts than both sets of meat (the odd one out I had more of one type of meat than pelts, but half as much of the other meat).  Overall I am getting less than a third of the total harvest being pelts, and that's worse than I was experiencing before GU37. Okay, that all said.  I'm well aware than 5 harvesting trips does not constitute a proper test, so I was hoping people would add their experiences to this thread so we can see if the change, as stated above, is having the intended effect. As a side issue, I read the post about the RNG showing people love - I have experienced this in patches during harvesting but am not getting "the love" from the traps (which is a shame because I'm trying to get T2 pelts for a new player atm and they used to drop fairly often).  If others are finding more luck in other nodes than traps, or vice versa, could you share your experience.  Just hoping that out of this we can get a picture of whether the change they intended is being of any help. Thanks for your time. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Sunrayn]

<p>I have a problem with what Domino said in another thread, specifically this:</p><li>if you get a single item harvest from a trapping node, you have twice the chance of it being a pelt than a meat.  For 3 and 5 item harvests they're equal chances (which means more meats overall).  This was intended to give pelts a small but not overwhelming boost in drop rate.</li><p>Lets take a look at some things.</p><p>Now, for this, I am going to leave out Root Nodes because all 9 tradeskill classes need them and roots are the sole harvest from that node.  I am also leaving out rare harvests because..they simply dont matter for this.</p><p>Lets start with Bush Nodes.  Four different harvests....but....only used by ONE tradeskill class, the Provisioner.  No other tradeskill can use bush harvests.</p><p>Fish Nodes.  Three different harvests but, once again, ALL harvests from it are only usable by ONE tradeskill class, again, the provisioner.</p><p>Wood Nodes.  Used by 5 out of 9 tradeskills but, as wood is the *only* harvest, no problem here.</p><p>Dens...Three different harvests.  Two meats, one hide.  Oh wait, Two out of three of these harvests are used by....you guessed it...ONE tradeskill class...Can you guess which one?  Sure..I knew you could..The provisioner.  The pelts, used by every tradeskill class *except* Sage, Alchemist, Provisioner.  Six out of nine tradeskills compete for *one third* of the den harvests while ONE class gets 2/3 of those harvests.</p><p>There isnt a single other node that is as lopsided as the Den node.  It doesnt take a genius to figure this out, all it takes is a cup of common sense to know that 6 classes shouldnt have to compete for 1/3 of a harvest node while *one* class gets 2/3 of it.</p>

[Jrral]

What I'm seeing so far is that pelts are slightly more likely to drop, but more likely to give singles than meats are. In numbers I end up with about as many pelts as I have each type of meat. And from what I've seen the most in-demand foods (5-hour stat) use bush commons rather than meats. I think tilting the den proportions to be 2:1:1 pelt-meat-meat so you end up with as many pelts as total meats would be a bit better.

[Sunrayn]

<p>After doing some harvesting in EL and SS.</p><p>EL: 64 bear meat, 38 griffon meat, 54 hides.</p><p>SS: 3 stacks of Caimen meat, 2 stacks of Sabretooth meat, just over 60 hides.</p><p>This is on Test server of course.</p>

[Maroger]

<cite>Sunrayn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>After doing some harvesting in EL and SS.</p><p>EL: 64 bear meat, 38 griffon meat, 54 hides.</p><p>SS: 3 stacks of Caimen meat, 2 stacks of Sabretooth meat, just over 60 hides.</p><p>This is on Test server of course.</p></blockquote><p> Not for me in the SS -- would get usually 2 pelts and 6 caiman meat. The pelts would be singles and the blastered meat is usually 5. </p><p>Have never gotten more pelts than meat in the SS.<img src="/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Sunrayn]

<cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sunrayn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>After doing some harvesting in EL and SS.</p><p>EL: 64 bear meat, 38 griffon meat, 54 hides.</p><p>SS: 3 stacks of Caimen meat, 2 stacks of Sabretooth meat, just over 60 hides.</p><p>This is on Test server of course.</p></blockquote><p> Not for me in the SS -- would get usually 2 pelts and 6 caiman meat. The pelts would be singles and the blastered meat is usually 5. </p><p>Have never gotten more pelts than meat in the SS.<img src="/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote><p> Sorry, my fault, guess I should have used the same measurement all the way..3 stacks of caimen meat is 150 meat, 100 sabretooth meat and just over 60 hides.</p><p>A very bad ratio no matter how you stack it.  And yes, the pelts are mostly singles with a few 5's thrown in, the meat is always multiple.</p><p>Like I said in my first post, dens are the most borked harvest node there is.</p>

[Oakleafe]

Thanks for the feedback guys, and thanks Sunrayn for the quote from Domino that I had missed.  Have had another couple of harvesting sessions and I'm just not seeing any improvement so the "small but not overwhelming boost in drop rate" isn't really paying off at all. The breakdown of which TS classes get what out of each node was interesting, but think that maybe there's a couple of other things to factor in. 1. With the last GU you may need to include rares in the equation for bush nodes as these now drop the rare root used by tailors, jewelers and carpenters.  What I mean is that in the past all non-provisioners could choose to ignore bush and fish nodes, but now bush nodes drop something needed by non-provisioner classes. 2. Quantities of materials used.  Provisioner level 40 recipe Wyrm Steak uses 1 piece of meat.  Tailor level 40 recipe Strengthened Leather Boots uses 6 pelts (maybe 7, the three websites I checked all had different numbers!).   Highest number of meat items used per recipe in the 40-49 range is 2, and those recipes actually need more coffee beans than meat!  The first point doesn't affect the basic facts of your arguement, but I thought it worth saying as it actually introduces a reason to harvest a node from which you don't actually require the primary drops. The second point just helps (I hope) to illustrate how we didn't need a "small but not overwhelming boost" we actually needed a "large and really helpful boost". <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   I wonder how simple it would be to put the increased drop rate on the 3 items, rather than the one.  Perhaps this would give a noticeable increase in pelts without being "overwhelming". Anyway, thanks again for the feedback.

[Looker1010]

<p>I was so eager for the trapping changes. Then when 37 hit test I found no improvement at all. When 37 hit live it was the same situation. Whatever it was that Domino was seeking to achieve with the changes to the pelt/meat ratio from traps is just not happening. In fact, the imbalance, for me at least, has become even worse, with the ratio of meats to hides increasing.</p><p>Having a crafter from each profession I know who needs what and what I believe we need is an approximate 75% hides to 25% meat ratio. Please try again Domino. Thank you.</p><p>Early morning T7 trap harvest results. 110 aviak meat, 88 ravasect meat, for a total of 198 meat, plus 133 horned leather hides. This is not what we had hoped for with GU37. <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Melanth]

<p>Spent an hour harvesting in BB last night to up my alt's skills...</p><p>Got 2 1/2 stacks of meat (various types) and half a stack of pelts.  I logged in my main and got similar results in Nek.  Normal pelts have become so rare that t3/t4 pelts - normal pelts mind you - are 2g on the broker EACH.  Last week they'd be 10 silver max.</p><p>ouch....</p><p> We love ya Dominoe but maybe you got the equation a lil mixed on this one. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>-Melanth, 70 Tailor Crushbone</p>

[Valdaglerion]

Jrral@Unrest wrote: <blockquote>What I'm seeing so far is that pelts are slightly more likely to drop, but more likely to give singles than meats are. In numbers I end up with about as many pelts as I have each type of meat. And from what I've seen the most in-demand foods (5-hour stat) use bush commons rather than meats. I think tilting the den proportions to be 2:1:1 pelt-meat-meat so you end up with as many pelts as total meats would be a bit better. </blockquote> Screewoggins uses 1 ravasect and 1 aviak meat among other things for that recipe.

[Domino]

So far I'm still seeing more pelts than meats whenever I harvest.  I must be using a different RNG from everyone else ... <img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It's no worry though, if it consistently looks as if there still aren't that many more pelts it can be increased a bit more.  I didn't want to overdo it at first and find suddenly, all the provisioners are screaming at me because there are no meats to be had!  Not that anyone <i>ever</i> panics wildly if things are even very briefly unbalanced or anything like tha  ... but just hypothetically, you know.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[TheSpin]

<p>I'm finding myself getting tons more meat until I hit the skill cap for my current level and then it evens out or slightly tilts in favor of the leather.  </p><p>To be honest, anything thats done to change the ratio on dens isn't going to help much because there are always plenty of dens to be found.  The big problem I am having is finding enough Ore.  In the time it took me to get the 3 stacks of everything I needed, I actually ended up with about 6 stacks of everything else that I wanted by the time I got my 3 stacks of ore.  This problem is two-fold, one is that ore is very popular so is often snatched up right away, and the other problem is that ore is shared with loams so you have to harvest twice as much to get what you need.</p><p>I would much rather see a way to choose whether you were trying to get one material or the other on ore, dens, and stone instead of a random chance to get one or the other.  I definately do not want to encourage new types of nodes because I think it would get confusing, but harvesting has become my biggest turn-off to tradeskilling in general.</p>

[Nembutal]

Yeah I'd still like to see even more pelts... it's not tilted far enough away from favoring my provisioner yet.  My Armorer is basically stuck in T6 because I refuse to tradeskill without vitality because it takes soo much leather and it's so hard to get my hands on at a reasonable price or even harvesting myself.

[Jesdyr]

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not that anyone <i>ever</i> panics wildly if things are even very briefly unbalanced or anything like tha  ... but just hypothetically, you know.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> Nope Never ... The change really didnt help much. But I am thinking about making a provisioner now.

[melaine_dvarvensplitter]

I am seeing about 2/3 more meat than pelts. Domino, could ya speed up the respawn times on nodes in TT, they seem to me to be a bit slower than other areas. Any others notice this? or is it me?

[einar4]

<p> Well to add my own apocryphal data to everyone else's apocryphal data (including Domino's): It was only a quick poke in the haystack with a sore finger, but I found about a 30/70 distribution of pelts(40%) to meats(60%) in Lavastorm last night, with a 310 skill in trapping.   I was harvesting for about 2 hours.   This doesn't really seem to be a change from previous harvesting excursions. </p><p> I think it should be noted that tailoring using an enormous amount of raws in comparison to things like carpentry, scholar trades, etc.  For example I might use 1-2 of each raw in alchemy, but 9-10 pelts and roots for an item in tailoring.   Yet, harvest yields are pretty much level across all resources.   That doesn't seem to be taken into account. </p>

[Oakleafe]

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>So far I'm still seeing more pelts than meats whenever I harvest.  I must be using a different RNG from everyone else ... <img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It's no worry though, if it consistently looks as if there still aren't that many more pelts it can be increased a bit more.  I didn't want to overdo it at first and find suddenly, all the provisioners are screaming at me because there are no meats to be had!  Not that anyone <i>ever</i> panics wildly if things are even very briefly unbalanced or anything like tha  ... but just hypothetically, you know.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>And I thought it was just my paranoia that I had MrRNG-from-Hell applied to my gaming experience and everyone else had nice, friendly, here-have-a-rare MissNiceyNiceRNG applied to theirs! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I'm still getting more meat than pelts btw, but if you have spare pelts Domino then .....   he he For me the change has made no obvious difference (i.e. not obviously better nor worse).  I even started a little tick sheet of how many single pelts and how many single drops of each meat I got and after I got to 2 stacks of pelts the total of single pelts was just 2 pelts above the total of the nearest level meat, 5 different from the other meat.  At that point both stacks of meat were higher than the pelts, which is the norm for me anyway, but was maybe a little surprising as I had a magic 10 pelt drop twice (Yippee!).  I still think it's worth trying this change against the 3 drops, rather than the single drops (crosses fingers for luck). <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And I don't think you will get the provisioners screaming at you over "no meat to be had" as they hardly use any, at least when compared to pelt usage per recipe.  I have 2 provisioners (greedy, I know) and one tailor (and one of each of the other TS classes) and I throw meat away after every harvesting trip.  Every prov I know ends up with 2 stacks of each meat that just never runs out! Melaine, I've noticed the same thing in TT.  Is very obvious in the area with the six legged critters on the isle you get to from the Ant/CL spires (sorry, name of the isle escapes me).

[Vatec]

I have all nine tradeskills at levels 20 to 39, depending on need/whim.  Here's my practical experience: I fish enough nodes to keep my Fishing skill at cap, then stop.  Fish are only used by the Provisioner and a couple of stacks of each fish is more than enough for him to make it through an entire tier.  Should I need a few more, they're always available on the broker for a copper. I gather from bushes until I have a stack or two of each ingredient.  Again, this is more than enough for my Provisioner to make it through a tier.  Again, these are also always available on the broker for a copper. The next node I stop bothering with is lumber.  The only thing you get from these is wood.  Sure, it's used by more than half the professions, but if you need more, it's a "sure thing" on a harvesting expedition and, of course, on the broker for a copper. Then I stop mining gems and precious metals.  Sure, jewelers, scholars, and carpenters all use these, but they drop in equal proportions, the nodes are abundant, and they're always available for a copper. I'll usually give up on dens next.  After gathering five or ten stacks of pelts, I have enough to last a while.  More to the point, I also have about 20 or 30 stacks of assorted meat that are basically useless.  My provisioner already has five stacks of each.  I already have five or ten stacks on the broker that will never sell (I've had 150 vulrich meat on the broker for over a month :^P) and I still have a pack full of them. The only nodes I will consistently work on =every= single harvesting trip are roots and hard metals.  Roots are used by every single tradeskill (a legacy of the days when every single tradeskill used a wash/oil/resin/temper) and hard metal nodes are so rare that they're always worth mining, if only for a shot at a rare. So, from my experience, I would reduce the chances of fish, bush, and lumber nodes spawning at all.  There is never a shortage of these things in any tier I've visited up through KoS.  Gem nodes are about right; when you need one, you'll probably find it.  Dens are fine in numbers, but we're still getting way too much meat from them; I'd agree with the poster who said it should probably be a 2:1:1 ratio.  In fact, if you improved that ratio, you could probably spawn fewer nodes and still be fine.  Fact is, only four classes wear leather, so there's not a huge demand for pelts for anything other than backpacks and leveling a tailor. The real problems lie in the root and hard metal nodes.  On Oasis, while most harvests go for a copper, hard metals and loams will sell for upwards of a silver.  And I've seen the price of belladonna spike to over 20 silver.  Furthermore, the hard metal rares usually sell for about four to five times the price of the other rares, including gems and soft metals. Summary:  Reduce frequency of fish, bush, lumber, and den nodes.  Increase frequency of root and (especially) hard metal nodes.  Increase ratio of pelt to meat.  Leave soft metal nodes the way they are.  This should go a long way toward improving the balance between the different harvestables. YMMV

[Josephn]

The 'fix' definitely seemed to make things worse.  Over Saturday and Sunday I ended up with 2/3 meat to only 1/3 pelts.

[Oakleafe]

In response to Vatec's post - In my experience the reason why there are less root and metal/ore nodes around is not spawn rate but because too many players are cherry picking the nodes.  If you go to a zone and only harvest root and metal/ore nodes then that zone will end up with none.  If you harvest everything then everything will respawn - maybe not in the required ratios, but that's for the same reason as bread lands butter side down! Obviously, if YOU harvest everything and other players run through the zone and cherry pick then your hard work will be, to some level, wasted.  But them's the breaks.  I've had a good hour to myself in EL this evening and have got a good selection of raws from all nodes (see below) but am stopping harvesting as the cherry pickers have arrived on their see-through horses/wargs/toilet rugs.  If you can find a corner of a zone somewhere then harvest everything and then every node will become available. Honest. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I know this means harvesting items that you will not use, but on the good side you can sell what you don't want cheap on the broker (except meat!) and may get lucky with a rare or two.  I also have a full set of crafters but also have the same issue as Vatec in that certain crafts don't use as much of their needed resource as others, so some items that we get a lot of but don't actually need a lot of gets deleted nearly every harvesting trip. "Fact is, only four classes wear leather, so there's not a huge demand for pelts for anything other than backpacks and leveling a tailor."   Actually, I've known a fair few scout types that choose to wear leather for the stats.  Also, don't forget the bandolier type things that weapon-throwers use instead of bows.  Oh, and don'y forget that tailors are not the only class that use leather!  Really though, the thing I wish people would bear in mind is that even if a resource is only used by a few classes it's the amount that's used, not the number of classes using it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> On another note, this evenings Den tally is: 73 Bear meat 89 Griffon meat 93 Etched leather pelt Woohoo!  More pelts than the meat for a change (had 3 rares which helped). <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> With Vatec's post and my response to it on mind, I've also harvested in the same time: 227 Tussah Roots 111 Supple Loam 120 Feyiron Cluster 141 Velium cluster 120 Rough Opaline 239 Severed Briarwood Lot's of food items too, btw

[Siogai]

Maybe it's just the area I am harvesting in, but I am definitely having problems getting pelts in SS. I would estimate that meat is well above 50%, and probably approaches 70% for meats...

[Sunrayn]

<cite>Oakleafe wrote:</cite><blockquote> On another note, this evenings Den tally is: 73 Bear meat 89 Griffon meat 93 Etched leather pelt Woohoo!  More pelts than the meat for a change (had 3 rares which helped). <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> With Vatec's post and my response to it on mind, I've also harvested in the same time: 227 Tussah Roots 111 Supple Loam 120 Feyiron Cluster 141 Velium cluster 120 Rough Opaline 239 Severed Briarwood Lot's of food items too, btw </blockquote><p>Even with the meat to pelt numbers there Oak...it still isnt even close to a good distribution.  Total meat should in no way, shape or form outnumber the total pelts.  Remember, only *one* class uses the meat while *six* classes use the pelts.</p><p>Using your harvests, 132 pelts, 62 bear meat and 61 griffon meat *should* be the norm.  You cant just take the simple way and divide a node by 3 harvests.</p>

[Hollywood]

Just to add to the consensus, getting about 2/3 meat to 1/3 pelts as well.

[melaine_dvarvensplitter]

Upon some additional testing in the other tiers, I was on main today and still hitting 2/3 meat to 1/3 pelts. Same goes for loam to ore. I keep in stock 4-6 stacks of mats for each tier for armor and such and always destroy an insane amount of meat and loam.

[Oakleafe]

<cite>Sunrayn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Oakleafe wrote:</cite><blockquote> On another note, this evenings Den tally is: 73 Bear meat 89 Griffon meat 93 Etched leather pelt Woohoo!  More pelts than the meat for a change (had 3 rares which helped). <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> With Vatec's post and my response to it on mind, I've also harvested in the same time: 227 Tussah Roots 111 Supple Loam 120 Feyiron Cluster 141 Velium cluster 120 Rough Opaline 239 Severed Briarwood Lot's of food items too, btw </blockquote><p>Even with the meat to pelt numbers there Oak...it still isnt even close to a good distribution.  Total meat should in no way, shape or form outnumber the total pelts.  Remember, only *one* class uses the meat while *six* classes use the pelts.</p><p>Using your harvests, 132 pelts, 62 bear meat and 61 griffon meat *should* be the norm.  You cant just take the simple way and divide a node by 3 harvests.</p></blockquote>Totally agree with the principle of what you are saying Sunrayn.  Was just reporting todays totals and being a bit sarcastic on the number of pelts to meat ratio. As I've said elsewhere, I don't think you should just look at this as numbers of crafters who use whatever, but also factor in the number of raws needed by those crafters.  If you factor that in then for 100 pelts you'd only need 10-20 meats, or a similar ration to that. Anyway, hopefully the lovely Domino will smile upon us and try upping the pelt ratio a bit more, even if only by a small amount.  Every little helps, as they say.

[Vatec]

<cite>Oakleafe wrote:</cite><blockquote>In response to Vatec's post - In my experience the reason why there are less root and metal/ore nodes around is not spawn rate but because too many players are cherry picking the nodes.  If you go to a zone and only harvest root and metal/ore nodes then that zone will end up with none.  If you harvest everything then everything will respawn - maybe not in the required ratios, but that's for the same reason as bread lands butter side down! <span style="color: #990000"><span style="font-size: x-small">If people are cherry-picking certain nodes, it's a good sign the spawn rates for those nodes should be raised, wouldn't you agree?  I've tried the whole "harvest everything" approach and wound up with bags full of unsellable fruits, nuts, berries, meats, and wood.  That's why I posted my list of the order in which I stop harvesting certain nodes ;^) </span></span> Obviously, if YOU harvest everything and other players run through the zone and cherry pick then your hard work will be, to some level, wasted.  But them's the breaks.  I've had a good hour to myself in EL this evening and have got a good selection of raws from all nodes (see below) but am stopping harvesting as the cherry pickers have arrived on their see-through horses/wargs/toilet rugs.  If you can find a corner of a zone somewhere then harvest everything and then every node will become available. Honest. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <span style="color: #990000"><span style="font-size: x-small">Right. Every node will become available.  And I'll still wind up with packs full of stuff that's basically useless to me because I already have enough for my crafting needs and it will take literally weeks sitting on the broker before it sells for a copper a piece.</span></span> I know this means harvesting items that you will not use, but on the good side you can sell what you don't want cheap on the broker (except meat!) and may get lucky with a rare or two.  I also have a full set of crafters but also have the same issue as Vatec in that certain crafts don't use as much of their needed resource as others, so some items that we get a lot of but don't actually need a lot of gets deleted nearly every harvesting trip. <span style="color: #990000"><span style="font-size: x-small">Exactly.  Adjust the spawn ratio of the nodes and that won't happen anywhere near as often.</span></span> "Fact is, only four classes wear leather, so there's not a huge demand for pelts for anything other than backpacks and leveling a tailor."   Actually, I've known a fair few scout types that choose to wear leather for the stats.  Also, don't forget the bandolier type things that weapon-throwers use instead of bows.  Oh, and don'y forget that tailors are not the only class that use leather!  Really though, the thing I wish people would bear in mind is that even if a resource is only used by a few classes it's the amount that's used, not the number of classes using it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <span style="color: #990000"><span style="font-size: x-small">Well, scouts used to choose leather because it resulted in higher avoidance.  But avoidance got nerfed =and= leather lost its advantage over chain.  So, at this point, those who choose leather most likely do so because it's cheaper than chain.  For example, while ebon clusters were selling for 80gp+ and ebon armor was 1.5pp a piece, engraved leather (I think that's the right name these days) was selling for under 20gp and the armor was about 50gp a piece.   So, while  chain might have better stats, you get more stat for your plat out of leather.  Frankly, though, I haven't seen that many scouts in leather.  As for bandoliers, no one in their right mind uses them unless they have to ;^)  Swashbucklers have a CA that requires a throwing weapon and brawlers can't use bows, but that's pretty much the entire market :^P  (Most of my alts use mastercrafted imbued throwing weapons because I make at least one of each every tier for the pristine xp bonus, and there are four different types, none of which I've ever successfully sold on the broker....)  In any case, I've never run out of pelts for crafting, and most trips I don't even bother harvesting from dens.  I just wish I didn't have to throw out so much meat getting the five or ten stacks of pelts I use each tier....</span></span> On another note, this evenings Den tally is: 73 Bear meat 89 Griffon meat 93 Etched leather pelt  <span style="color: #990000"><span style="font-size: x-small">Right. And I'm betting it wasn't because of a lack of nodes, but rather because you were only getting 1-3 pelts the majority of the time.</span></span> Woohoo!  More pelts than the meat for a change (had 3 rares which helped). <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> With Vatec's post and my response to it on mind, I've also harvested in the same time: 227 Tussah Roots  <span style="color: #990000"><span style="font-size: x-small">About right, considering every tradeskill uses roots. </span></span> 111 Supple Loam  <span style="color: #990000"><span style="font-size: x-small">Probably a few too many since only alchemists and provisioners use many.</span></span> 120 Feyiron Cluster  <span style="color: #990000"><span style="font-size: x-small">Good ratio to roots, IMO.</span></span> 141 Velium cluster  <span style="color: #990000"><span style="font-size: x-small">Too many, really.</span></span> 120 Rough Opaline  <span style="color: #990000"><span style="font-size: x-small">Slightly too many.</span></span> 239 Severed Briarwood  <span style="color: #990000"><span style="font-size: x-small">Way too many.</span></span> Lot's of food items too, btw  <span style="color: #990000"><span style="font-size: x-small">Exactly. I'll stick to my recommendation, though I wouldn't be unhappy to see a 4:1:1 ratio of pelt:meat:meat or even higher.  But adjusting the node spawns so the ones most likely to be cherry-picked are the most likely to spawn is, IMO, just as important. I'd say a good solid ratio would be twice as many roots as loams / hard metals / soft metals / gems / woods / pelts, and twice as many of these as fruits / nuts / meats.  Extrapolating even further, if we went with the 2 pelt:1 meat:1 meat suggestion, I'd like to see a node ratio of: 2 roots : 1 lumber : 1 bush : 2 hard metal : 2 soft metal : 2 den which should result in: 20 roots : 10 lumber : 10 food #1 : 10 food #2 : 10 hard metal : 10 loam : 10 soft metal : 10 gem : 10 pelt : 5 meat #1 : 5 meat #2 If in doubt, tweak in favor of more roots, hard metals, and pelts.... </span></span> </blockquote>

[Domino]

Just in case you didn't see the <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=105&topic_id=374729#4255316" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">other post</a>, pelts will be increasing again with a hotfix this week.

[Valdaglerion]

<p>Oh joy....</p><p>How about this-</p><ul><li>1 harvest node type, remove all others</li><li>Call the harvest you get from the node "Crafting Material - T1, T2, etc..."</li><li>Remove the despawn and harvest maximums from the nodes so you can pull up to a node and harvest it 10,000 times if you want/need to</li><li>The "Crafting Material" would be the only ingredient any and every recipe would need aside from fuel.</li><li>Consolidate fuels to "Fuel - T1, T2, etc"</li><li>Consolidate crafting stations to a single "Crafting Station". We can reduce clutter by getting rid of all those things that are just there for aesthetics anyway.</li><li>Consolidate Tradeskill arts to "Add Durability - T1, T2, etc" and "Speed Progress - T1, T2, etc"</li><li>Allow us to create a macro, that allows movement, purchasing and crafting. This would allow us to create a macro - "Walk to Fuel Merchant, purchase 500 Fuel - T7", "Walk to Crafting Station, Make 200 Pristine [Thingamabobs]","Walk to fuel merchant, sell 200 Thingamabobs", [Rinse and Repeat]. </li></ul><p>I somehow think even that wouldnt be simple enough or "balanced" enough for some people. /shrug</p>

[melaine_dvarvensplitter]

Well as promised I did some checking in t4, and t6, sad to say ... more meats than pelts, and more loams than metals. Also Domino if you could check into the node respawn rate and node amounts. Not sure what happened in LU 37 but I have spent the better part running around looking for nodes of any type. This is in SS, and PoF. Thanks.

[denmom]

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just in case you didn't see the <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=105&topic_id=374729#4255316" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">other post</a>, pelts will be increasing again with a hotfix this week. </blockquote> Yay, thank you! To add my own findings from today...I was harvesting pelts in TT for about two hours. 3 stacks of aviak, 2 stacks of ravasect, half a stack each. 2 stacks of hides, not even half a stack. 6 stacks, if you combine the half stacks, of meat, 2 1/4 stacks of hides. Blah.

[Vith]

Since the last update, it's been 1/3rd pelts, 2/3rds meats.. Since my provisioner is loaded with meats already, all the meats I harvest go in the garbage bin. So 2/3rds of all trapping is wasted time. As someone noted earlier, the critical aspect of this harvest node is how many classes use pelts vs a fraction of the provisioner recipes that use those two meats.

[Troubor]

<p>I've been doing a fair amount of harvesting of tier 4 and tier 5, to be specific in the Enchanted Lands and Rivervale.  Anyway, I've noted the following:</p><p>a)  I may get as many pelt "hits" as before, but it's one pelt per hit almost always.  Don't think I've hit a rare pelt in a long while.  Other rares seem to be up in all tiers, had a wonderful tier 7 run yesterday for instance, rarewise.</p><p>b)  Meat might be in half the harvest "hits", but it's almost always multiple bits of meat per hit.  It's pretty common to see 3 or 5 bits of meat per hit.</p><p>Or put it another way, one den/trap node might be lets say "One pelt, one pelt, 5 meat".  </p><p>As an aside, since we've gone to the generic imbuing item, seems like I get less of them now.  Compared to my "true rare" harvest each time, I actually seem to get more actual rares then imbuing items.  Not a big complaint for me now, I have a small horde of imbuing items on all of my characters, each tier.  Anyway, anyone else notice a decline in imbuing items?</p><p>(To give an example, the tier 7 run I did yesterday, I got one ebony, 5 acrylia, 2 moonstone and a spongy loam in something like 2 hours.  Hit I think one imbuing item.  Most of my tier 4 and 5 runs have been similar, hit maybe 3 to 6 or more rares, maybe a single imbuing item).</p>

[Maroger]

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just in case you didn't see the <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=105&topic_id=374729#4255316" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">other post</a>, pelts will be increasing again with a hotfix this week. </blockquote>Thank you Domino. -- I am overflowing with meat. And constantly out of pelts.

[Oakleafe]

Thanks DominoDev.  Think I might have to dream about you tonight.  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Hmm, but only if I can get this awful picture out of my mind of Maroger overflowing with meat!  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Seriously, thanks a bunch for not only making the first changes to try and benefit us, but also for taking notice of our bleatings and mostly for keeping us informed.  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Oakleafe]

No mention of the den/trap changes in yesterday's hotfix notes but I thought I'd report back my results of a fairly short harvesting trip today. Ravasect meat: 19 Aviak meat: 10 Horned leather pelts: 56 With provisioners using 2 meats per recipe and tailors using 7+ this seems to me to be a really good ratio, but admittedly it is only off a quick trip. Will try and do a better harvest on den/traps tomorrow to give more meaningful figures. Assuming the fix did go in I'd like to give another thanks to Domino for responding to us so positively and quickly.  /shout THANKS DOMINO <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Oakleafe]

For me as a multi-tradeskiller I think the pelt to meat balance is spot on now.  Today I got (while levelling up an alt in Antonica): 28 mammal meat 18 bird meat 110 pelts Given that provisioners use 2 meat per recipe (to get 2 finished items) and that tailors use 7+ pelts it looks spot on to me. <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Thanks again DominoDev. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Drussna]

I rarely visit the boards anymore, but today I feel compelled too. I'm trying to level a variety of T6 tradeskills, and one thing I'm pretty annoyed with at the moment is the lack of pelt harvests. I'm getting almost three times more meat harvests than pelts. Considering that ONLY provisioners need meat, and woodworkers, weaponsmiths, armorers, tailors, carpenters and sometimes jewelers need pelts I would have assumed it would be the other way around. Can you please reduce the number of pelts required for each combine to just one if you plan to leave the pelt shortage as it is? Last time I checked the broker, a T6 pelt on Najena was selling for around 40 silver each, while a T6 meat was selling for 2 copper.

[Maroger]

<cite>Drussnaga wrote:</cite><blockquote>I rarely visit the boards anymore, but today I feel compelled too. I'm trying to level a variety of T6 tradeskills, and one thing I'm pretty annoyed with at the moment is the lack of pelt harvests. I'm getting almost three times more meat harvests than pelts. Considering that ONLY provisioners need meat, and woodworkers, weaponsmiths, armorers, tailors, carpenters and sometimes jewelers need pelts I would have assumed it would be the other way around. Can you please reduce the number of pelts required for each combine to just one if you plan to leave the pelt shortage as it is? Last time I checked the broker, a T6 pelt on Najena was selling for around 40 silver each, while a T6 meat was selling for 2 copper. </blockquote>I couldn't agree more. I am still seeing more meats. Lately I just delete my meats - at 2c they aren't worth selling.