Question about manaburn

[fy20]

<p>Just come back to play wizard after 2 years' break.</p><p>Why manaburn is so great ? The power/damage ratio is 1:4, far worse than most nukes. Any tricky thing here ?</p><p>Also, starting to mentor to get aa now, should i go KoS ones first or EOF one? I duo a lot, any suggested paths ? </p><p> Thanks</p>

[Dextera]

<p>Manaburn bad.</p><p>Heal/Cold AGI/WIS</p><p>k. thx. bai.</p>

[miliskel]

manaburn = crap. i may be a warlock but anyone can see that 1 power : 4 damage is worse than just nuking lol, the line for it is uselss to.

[Kaycerzan]

Manaburn is good for fighting heroic mobs, if you want to solo even a +++, no spell in your arsenal is going to do 1/2 their health in the few second casting time.  Ice Nova + Manaburn = dead named mob.  4:1 does suck, terribly so, but for the casting time it IS good if you need to minimize the number of spells cast / time used.

[Enob]

Just to help clarify for the non-wizards.  Sure it's not great efficiency but how many times do fights end before you can use all of your power.  On raids you can often run out of power and that's the main reason why raiding wizards don't use manaburn.  Other reasons for not having it are the 20 "wasted" points into power (not really wasted since if you have manaburn you'll need to use your power regens more often than non-manaburn wizzies) and the obvious greatness that iceshape / frostbound gift can add to a party of casters. That aside I love my manaburn and it is extremely hard to give up.  The nerf really hit manaburn hard but honestly, if the purpose of the nerf was because of the trivialization of heroic content, it's still plenty trivial.  A 4:1 ratio still blows up stuff too well if that is what they were going for.  Against almost every heroic mob in the game except the harder bosses, manaburn still caps at the 50% health limit (little more of course with freehand).  So the only real nerf I see to manaburn is for the raiding wizards who opted for power over fire.  While most raiding wizards specced ice/fire for max boss damage (ie no power left to manaburn with) it was the ice/power wizards who were topping the zonewide parses.  Manaburns on trash could really speed up the trash in between bosses.  Now when you're raiding you're there for the bosses so ice/fire was still the most obvious and logical choice for guild progression.  But at least manaburn was a viable alternative and still gave at least some good benefit to the raid.  So at a 5:1 ratio manaburn held only very limited usefulness albeit some. Summary, I don't think the manaburn nerf did what it was intended to do.  Grouping and farming feel relatively unaffected while the hit to the few raiding manaburn wizards was drastic.  I don't like this change one bit.  Time to get a real spec I suppose.

[simpwrx02]

<cite>Enob wrote:</cite><blockquote> So the only real nerf I see to manaburn is for the raiding wizards who opted for power over fire.  While most raiding wizards specced ice/fire for max boss damage (ie no power left to manaburn with) it was the ice/power wizards who were topping the zonewide parses.  Manaburns on trash could really speed up the trash in between bosses.  Now when you're raiding you're there for the bosses so ice/fire was still the most obvious and logical choice for guild progression.  But at least manaburn was a viable alternative and still gave at least some good benefit to the raid.  So at a 5:1 ratio manaburn held only very limited usefulness albeit some. </blockquote><p> If a wizard is specced manaburn and is topping the parse then you are not in a good raiding guild,  you are pulling to slow or just doing KoS.  Manaburn really speeds up trash ... are you serious  yeah cuz your 80,000 damage shaved off so much time  noy really, it took you 7 seconds to cast that spell which any raiding wizzy can get 2k so you lose 14,000 from what you would have done.  On trash a desent raid is putting down 20K+ dps, so you gained the raid 80K-14K~66K or 3 seconds on a trash fight, wow now that is speeding it up, you can save 3 seconds out of every 5 minutes, but what about the time you are tryign to regen power, how much dps is lost then and slowing down the raid.</p><p>I raid with a wizzy who is specced manaburn and the only time he beats me is in MMiS when we screw up and wipe to mayong and have to fight our way back as he gets 1-2 manburns on the chaperons.  Half of the other fights when he manburns it is close as to who is higher on the parse.  When he dosent manaburn it is not even close I blow him out of the water by 200+ dps.   Choseing power over fire for the purpose of manaburn is not being the best you can be for a raid plain and simple.</p><p>Personally I have a few points into the power line, but that is just to get enhance vital conversion as I run out of power on the longer power drain fights aka Mayong, I like haveing it give me 472 power every tiem I use the spell.</p>

[daray]

<cite>simpwrx02 wrote:</cite><blockquote>If a wizard is specced manaburn and is topping the parse then you are not in a good raiding guild,  you are pulling to slow or just doing KoS.  Manaburn really speeds up trash ... are you serious  yeah cuz your 80,000 damage shaved off so much time  noy really, it took you 7 seconds to cast that spell which any raiding wizzy can get 2k so you lose 14,000 from what you would have done.  On trash a desent raid is putting down 20K+ dps, so you gained the raid 80K-14K~66K or 3 seconds on a trash fight, wow now that is speeding it up, you can save 3 seconds out of every 5 minutes, but what about the time you are tryign to regen power, how much dps is lost then and slowing down the raid.<p>I raid with a wizzy who is specced manaburn and the only time he beats me is in MMiS when we screw up and wipe to mayong and have to fight our way back as he gets 1-2 manburns on the chaperons.  Half of the other fights when he manburns it is close as to who is higher on the parse.  When he dosent manaburn it is not even close I blow him out of the water by 200+ dps.   Choseing power over fire for the purpose of manaburn is not being the best you can be for a raid plain and simple.</p><p>Personally I have a few points into the power line, but that is just to get enhance vital conversion as I run out of power on the longer power drain fights aka Mayong, I like haveing it give me 472 power every tiem I use the spell.</p></blockquote> QFE The <b>only</b> time you will see a greater benefit on raids from manaburn than a heat/cold spec is if your guild/raids pull incredibly slowly (with large downtimes between pulls) <b>and</b> you are killing content that dies incredibly fast (e.g. the low hitpoint KoS trash). In this scenario, you would be using manaburn on every or every alternate trash pull. And it is that, which will give you the lead on the zonewide. However, if you are a decent wizard in a decent raiding guild, then you will be chain pulling your way through trash with virtually zero downtime. The trash will have considerably more hitpoints than the KoS trash you are used to, and the named fights will last for much longer than you are used to. And then, if you ever come to fight current expansion contested content, you can expect your fights to last 20+ minutes. How does manaburn fit into all this? The simple answer is it doesn't, and by specing for manaburn your dps will already be suffering. Now, I expect someone to bring up the issue of needing manaburn for busrt dps on certain encounters, so I am going to preempt this ... if your raid dps blows [Removed for Content], go and buy Stakes! This manaburn discussion is guaranteed to come up at least twice a week, and I am running out of different ways to repeat the same things. So I will summarise in case people don't yet understand. <ul><li>Manaburn is an ability limited to solo / group play.</li><li>Manaburn is still as overpowered as it ever was for solo and heroic play.</li><li> Manaburn is still as useless as it ever was for raiding.</li></ul> <cite>simpwrx02 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Personally I have a few points into the power line, but that is just to get enhance vital conversion as I run out of power on the longer power drain fights aka Mayong, I like haveing it give me 472 power every tiem I use the spell.</blockquote> Fair enough, but there are better areas to utilise those points that will raise your dps. For fights where power is an issue, there are a multitude of power proc items that you can utilise on those specific fights (yay for the new macro system making entire gear changes easy and quick). Personally I have the Circlet of Dark Thoughts, V'Ncenzi's Voluminous Cape, Pantaloons of Mystical Silk, Slippers of Zal'Naz, Hoop of Planar Power, Necromantic Orb of the Death Reveller, and Wand of the Tempest off the top of my head. While I am still missing a few power procing items that I would like to get my hands on, what I do have currently allows me to sustain my power very close to full (with just a troub in group), without needing to stop and use any of my power clickies or power conversion spells. Although I am losing a sizeable amount of immediate damage by substituting out my standard damage gear, there comes a point in these extended fights where I will actually overtake the damage i would have been dealing (i.e. the point shortly after where I would have started having power issues). Basically with this setup, I can sustain up to and around 2.5k dps on a constant burn, without needing to worry about power. Also, if you get lucky with a Crystal Gift earring drop, that one item will go a very long way to solving any power issues you might have had - and often without you needing to trade in power procing gear.

[simpwrx02]

<cite>daray wrote:</cite><blockquote> <cite>simpwrx02 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Personally I have a few points into the power line, but that is just to get enhance vital conversion as I run out of power on the longer power drain fights aka Mayong, I like haveing it give me 472 power every tiem I use the spell.</blockquote> Fair enough, but there are better areas to utilise those points that will raise your dps. For fights where power is an issue, there are a multitude of power proc items that you can utilise on those specific fights (yay for the new macro system making entire gear changes easy and quick). Personally I have the Circlet of Dark Thoughts, V'Ncenzi's Voluminous Cape, Pantaloons of Mystical Silk, Slippers of Zal'Naz, Hoop of Planar Power, Necromantic Orb of the Death Reveller, and Wand of the Tempest off the top of my head. While I am still missing a few power procing items that I would like to get my hands on, what I do have currently allows me to sustain my power very close to full (with just a troub in group), without needing to stop and use any of my power clickies or power conversion spells. Although I am losing a sizeable amount of immediate damage by substituting out my standard damage gear, there comes a point in these extended fights where I will actually overtake the damage i would have been dealing (i.e. the point shortly after where I would have started having power issues). Basically with this setup, I can sustain up to and around 2.5k dps on a constant burn, without needing to worry about power. Also, if you get lucky with a Crystal Gift earring drop, that one item will go a very long way to solving any power issues you might have had - and often without you needing to trade in power procing gear. </blockquote><p>Yeah I respeced the points for power out of heat and cold to try to keep max dps, I did this after my guilds first kill on Mayong as I was sucking for power and only pulled 900 dps( sadly I was third on prase) this was our first kill (16:27) and we have since greatly increased dps, last fight I had 1650 on the Mayong fight(10:49). But since then I have also gotten a few more power proc items,  wand of the tempest, circlet of Dark thought, Leggings of Lucridity, and I wear the GoG for power intensive fights.  Been Farming the X2 but has only dropped the orb once and a necro got it.  I have been thinking about speccing back to pure heat cold since I now have those items.</p><p>In raids I normally only have a troub in my group for power ( our illy works to many double shifts and rarely raids with us) I still need the hat from vaults for power clicky, but I do have the dracomancer gloves.</p><p>I am probably going to respec again soon and I am considering putting 5 points into enhance inferno surge now that the duration is 4 seconds per point I still do not think that fire shape is worth the point as inferno surge is a dot proc and you can easily cast cold spells while it is ticking and only miss 1 tick or so of it. As of right now I normally get 25=/-2 or so ticks of inferno surge per casting I do not feel an extra 500-100 damage would warrent the 1 second of cast/recovery time of fireshape and would lower dps.</p><p>Now if I could only convive the other wizzy in my mage group to drop manaburn and pick up frigidgift/iceshape, he just farms to much when he dosent raid so he simply justifies needed manaburn for the 2 burst dps fights, even though fusion, ice nova is pretty close to the damage a even more gimped manaburn puts out, not to mention a catalyst/freehand fusion does 25-25k damage on a fully debuffed mob. </p>

[Prinzessa]

Ok, quys. I`ve read this topic, and i agree with all of you about gift 5+iceshape, but my guild (top raiding on our server (not europe) - dont think so). So RL always say that my DPS is not good. Last time it was in the Emerald Halls again. In group was just Troubador and other mages, me and the second wizard. So the second wizard was with manaburn and the best DPS - he does was 2300-3500 by parser (on trash). And without manaburn 1500-1850. He was in epic eof set (5 things). So me - I`ve done from 1300-1600 on trash in 3 things of eof epic set and without manaburn. His spells all M1 - mine just the main like - BOL, Fusion, Ice Nova and DOT`s.  We both raiders. I tried to explain RL that he did it only with manaburn, but he doesnt care. DPS 2300-3500 is good for raiding wizzy and no comments. So maybe i do smth wrong? And maybe i need to take manaburn?Because there are many trash in most of EoF raid instances? My AA lines now: KOS Agi: 4/4/6/8/1 Wis: 4/7/4/8/1 Eof ........3.........5.........0.........3.......... ...5.......5..........0..........5.........3.... ..................5..........0.................... ...1.......1..........0..........1.........1.... ........5........0..........0.........5.......... .0.....................0.......................5(F G).. .......0.........1...........0........1(Iceshape). ......... So the first i use in order: 1)Iseshape 2)F. Gift 3)Rending Icicles (M1) 4)Fiery Convulsions (A3) 5)Cease (M1) 6)Freehand Sorcery 7)Ice Nova (M1) 8 &nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Fusion (M1 - if situation is good for it) 9)BOL (M1) 10)Icestrike (A3) 11)Irradiate (A3) 12)Incapacitate (A3) 13)Surging Tempest (A3) And then protoferno (A3), Forge of RO (A1) The order can be different from 9 to 13 (because of resp) So what am i do wrong? Or maybe i need just wait for good jewerlly and set.... and of course all M1? PS. My int in group was 915, int of another wizard 911. I have in hand onehand staff of the second life from Prismatic 2 + vertabrak + figure of Aarionar (Claimore timeline). Thanks for your answers...because i am very nervous. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Zansobar]

You must remember that almost all the advice on these forums is for end game raiding.  It is unfortunate, since that leaves out the levellers and the soloers. Manaburn looks to be a must have for soloers and can also help with leveling on quest mobs. That said, I wish the other power pts you had to spend had a better return than they do, I'm not sure why there aren't options in that line that reduce the overall powerconsumption of your spells like the wisdom line. Anyway, as a leveler and a soloer I took advice and went with magi's shielding ward first, which is a godsend, I can now solo 3 mobs at once while they beat on me. I then will probably go the stamina tree and then try to get manaburn.

[simpwrx02]

<cite>Prinzessa wrote:</cite><blockquote> So the first i use in order: 1)Iseshape 2)F. Gift 3)Rending Icicles (M1) 4)Fiery Convulsions (A3) 5)Cease (M1) 6)Freehand Sorcery 7)Ice Nova (M1) 8  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Fusion (M1 - if situation is good for it) 9)BOL (M1) 10)Icestrike (A3) 11)Irradiate (A3) 12)Incapacitate (A3) 13)Surging Tempest (A3) And then protoferno (A3), Forge of RO (A1) The order can be different from 9 to 13 (because of resp) So what am i do wrong? Or maybe i need just wait for good jewerlly and set.... and of course all M1? PS. My int in group was 915, int of another wizard 911. I have in hand onehand staff of the second life from Prismatic 2 + vertabrak + figure of Aarionar (Claimore timeline). Thanks for your answers...because i am very nervous. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p>Okay your spell order can be maxed out a bit at least in my eyes, every fight I start out with a precast of Iceshiled on the MT when he gives a 5 sec to pull in raid.  Then as the mob is being positioned Iceshape/Frigid gift, rending icicles, Ball of lava, surging tempest, freehand Ice Nova( Fusion if it is up), Ball, irradiate, incap, etc.. Cast Ice Nova early in the fight to hopefully get a second one in.  Not sure what Ice strike is and I noramlly do not use my deaggros unless I do not have a troub.  Trash in EH i am normally 2000-2800 depwnding on group set up spiked to 3200 last night on a single target cuz we had a temp in group   it was sick to have frigid gift, and PotM up and have the templar cast divine recovery  /drool hopefully RL puts a temp in the mage group more often and less fury int is almost pointless after you get high 700s.</p><p>Also how much proc gear do you have, as far as EoF Fabled it is mostly crap until you have the 5 piece set imho i wear msotly KoS fabled still as I am waiting on my 5th piece, onyl time the manaburn specced wizzy beat me in parse was when he used manaburn. but for me I am specced sunstrike -3 irradiate and incapacitate-4 firestorm/fiery convulsion-1 BoL-5 inferno surge-5  rending icicles-5 icenova-5 surging tempest-2 electrying flash-3 glacial winds-3 fusion-3 frigid -5 ice shape -1 </p><p>I personally prioitize spells when they come up</p><p>Fusion  Ice Nova, Ball of lava, irradiate, incapacitate, fire storm,Ice shield, fiery convulsions, always keep rendidng iciles up, surging tempest depends on how long the fight is if I cast it a second time, protofero is the same.</p><p> As far as most info here being from top end raiders, well yes that is true however they normally spend the most time figureing out max dps, if you state it is only for herioc content then most can switch to give herioc grup advice or even solo play advice.  Those however do not require max dps output and you cant achieve it on group solo encounters anyways stuff dies to fast.  Every single top raider will agree that manaburn is godly in solo/herioc encounters, but is total crap in raids if you are in a guild that raids mainly EoF, KoS raids is different as if that is your main focus then you are probabyl not chain pulling so power is not a big issue.  </p>