John Smedley announces Legends of Norrath

[Calthine]

<p>Half an hour ago at Fan Faire John Smedley announced a new game, Legends of Norrath.  Read all about it at Allakhazam!</p><p><a href="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/db/guides.html?guide=1044" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><span style="font-size: large">John Smedley announces Legends of Norrath</span></a><span style="font-size: large"> </span></p>

[Josgar]

<p><a href="http://legendsofnorrath.station.sony.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://legendsofnorrath.station.sony.com</a></p>

[retro_guy]

Hmm, you get the change to loot cards that give you items in EQ1 or EQ2, interesting. Sweet, so you play from withing the MMO, it's not a separate game, sounds a little like Deplomacy <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Does it cost more?

[Josgar]

<p>NOPE</p><p>you can get cards off of mobs. you can sell the booster packs on the broker.</p><p>you can get rewards inside the game:</p><p><img src="http://legendsofnorrath.station.sony.com/images/rewards/eq2/eq2_lrg/eq2_stein_recollection.jpg" border="0"></p><p>Also you can buy booster packs if your impatient:</p><p>It is standalone, in EQ1, or in EQ2</p>

[Maroger]

<p>  Denver Post 8/11/2006</p><p>Success was in the cards for local game developer Worlds Apart Productions. </p><p>With the announcement Thursday of its acquisition by Sony Online Entertainment LLC, the 10-person Worlds Apart operation transforms into SOE Studios Denver and looks to the future. </p><p>Sony Online Entertainment, a privately held company owned by Sony Pictures Digital and Sony Computer Entertainment America, did not disclose financial details of the deal. </p><p>"The great thing for us is that we get to focus on making games," Worlds Apart president Scott Martins said. </p><p>The company, located in Capitol Hill, will offload its human-resources and finance operations to Sony and will leverage Sony's extensive network and information-technology resources. </p><p>Worlds Apart found a niche in the $7 billion domestic video-game industry by creating text adventure titles and online collectible trading-card games in which players collect digital images rather than actual cards. The company's profile reached a peak in 2004 with the release of an online card game based on "The Lord of the Rings" movie franchise. It continued to create additional online card titles. </p><p>Often overshadowed by the heavily marketed Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony console games, collectible trading cards have quietly developed into a solid moneymaking venture. While most online games earn $10 to $20 a month in player subscription fees, Martins said, a successful trading-card game can average more than $70 per month. </p><p>Worlds Apart was one of the first companies to recognize the potential for trading digital cards online, and secured the development rights for the online "Lord of the Rings Trading Card" game. </p><p>"Worlds Apart has done a tremendous job at building some solid tech for these online card games, in addition to a host of robust services and communities attached to these great games," SOE president John Smedley said. </p><p>In addition to completing a new online card game based on the "WhizKids Pirates" strategy game, the Worlds Apart team worked with SOE to explore adding collectible digital property into popular SOE franchises such as Everquest. </p><p>See also this URL <a href="http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_4165337" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_4165337</a></p>

[retro_guy]

<cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>  Denver Post 8/11/2006</p> <p>Often overshadowed by the heavily marketed Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony console games, collectible trading cards have quietly developed into a solid moneymaking venture. While most online games earn $10 to $20 a month in player subscription fees, Martins said, a successful trading-card game can average more than $70 per month. </p></blockquote>Hmm, I don't like the sound of that, does that mean to participate in the card game our average monthly cost will need to go from $20 to $70+??

[Josgar]

<p>Not unless you decide to buy booster packs and decks... because you CAN receive booster packs in chest drops/off the broker in game... so you wont HAVE to</p>

[retro_guy]

<cite>Josgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Not unless you decide to buy booster packs and decks... because you CAN receive booster packs in chest drops/off the broker in game... so you wont HAVE to</p></blockquote>And if they are tradbable I can farm for plat in game and buy them off the broker <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Sweet!

[xOnaton1]

Hehe, the mechanics of getting these new items isn't entirely clear but I like the look of <a href="http://legendsofnorrath.station.sony.com/rewards.vm?category=eq2" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">some of those cloaks</a>, like the one that "Shapechanges caster into an Inconspicuous Crate" or the "Legends of Norrath Cloak" that "Shrinks caster by 50%." They all have Featherfall too. But... it looks like you'll have to buy the booster packs to get those items. So, a cynic might see this as another way for SOE to squeeze money out of us. Hmm, how many posts until we see the first complaint about the "free" 50% carpet (from buying the booster packs)? Overall it sounds like an interesting synergy incorporating the constructible card game (of SOE Denver) into EQLive and EQ2. I'm assuming the stand alone client will be put into the new Launchpad. Wasn't the Station Launcher supposed to be coming out around now? Othesus - Dirge - Lucan DLere Vaspar - Fury - Lucan DLere

[Sunlei]

 ohhh, I love this! such a great idea!  <img src="/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Josgar]

Othesus@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>Hehe, the mechanics of getting these new items isn't entirely clear but I like the look of some of those cloaks, like the one that "Shapechanges caster into an Inconspicuous Crate" or the "Legends of Norrath Cloak" that "Shrinks caster by 50%." They all have Featherfall too. But... it looks like you'll have to buy the booster packs to get those items. Hmm, how many posts until we see the first complaint about the "free" 50% carpet (from buying the booster packs)? Overall it sounds like an interesting synergy incorporating the constructible card game (of SOE Denver) into EQLive and EQ2. I'm assuming the stand alone client will be put into the new Launchpad. Wasn't the Station Launcher supposed to be coming out around now? Othesus - Dirge - Lucan DLere Vaspar - Fury - Lucan DLere </blockquote>Im pretty sure (almost) that you can get them off of booster packs from mobs *I THINK*

[Devilsbane]

<p>Hopefully this will open more server to Station Exchange. Only way to increase revenue past the initial game pak purchase. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[AbsentmindedMage]

Well, there isnt a lot of information to form an opinion on.  Though, <img src="/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I am aware that Mr. Smedley has stated before that he felt the direction of MMOs should be moving to no monthly cost but being run by money from players  who purchase items and adventures.  This collectible card game seems to be a step in that direction.  You can purchase booster packs that give the possibility of getting rare in game items like a mount or charms.

[Wrapye]

Reminds me of the CCG that Blizzard came out with a year ago, that some of the cards had a special code that gave an item in game. Except that they were real, tangible cards, not pixels in a game. /shakes head.

[Devilsbane]

<cite>Wrapye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Reminds me of the CCG that Blizzard came out with a year ago, that some of the cards had a special code that gave an item in game. Except that they were real, tangible cards, not pixels in a game. /shakes head. </blockquote> Aye, real cards subject to real problems like wear & tear, water damage, pet chewing attacks. This so brings me back to the original MtG cards, a horde of plague rats FTW. <img src="/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kindayr]

Looks fun <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But i'm most excited because they just proved that the insignia they released last year's Fan Faire (the "Future of Everquest II" and "Fae" prover) is in fact the Stone of Shissar, and the sign on it was Shissar-esque <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Ophelea]

You can find more information here: <a href="http://gamersinfo.net/index.php?art/id:1824" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://gamersinfo.net/index.php?art/id:1824</a> and here <a href="http://kotaku.com/gaming/feature/everquests-online-trading-card-game-unveiled-285936.php" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://kotaku.com/gaming/feature/ev...iled-285936.php</a>

[Foolsfolly]

I've been wishing for this ever since early EQ1 days. Thankyou sony for doing something cool for us! Although as a side note, you really need to do something similar with the arena that already exists in eq2. Make it cross-server and accessible from anywhere, and people might actually start to use it. You could even add some card packs as rewards for winning enough rounds in the arena!

[Jariss]

<p>Must say a big anti climax here, i mean a card game!!</p><p>I was hoping and praying for a real new game, like SWG 2 or something. </p><p>Poor show SoE.</p>

[Lilj]

Hmm, will it only be fan faire people that can be in the beta? I am looking for how to join in the beta, but I can't find any information about how to join as a non-fan faire person. Edit: Perhaps I'm seeing this wrong, but isn't this is a way to put in a kind of exchange server thingie into normal servers? If I can buy cards for real money and those cards can give me items in the game, it means I can buy items in the game for real money? I realise it will only be some items that can be brought into the game by cards, but still. It will bring real money into the game and I'm very sad to see this. If I have misunderstood something, please let me know, because this does not sound good to me.

[Siufu]

If I play it from the standalone client, could I use my avatars and cards from my EQ2 account? They should make a PS3 client too. Download it from PSN free of charge, and buy card packs for the same price. Or even a PSP version too, download from PSN.

[AbsentmindedMage]

<cite>Liljna wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hmm, will it only be fan faire people that can be in the beta? I am looking for how to join in the beta, but I can't find any information about how to join as a non-fan faire person. Edit: Perhaps I'm seeing this wrong, but isn't this is a way to put in a kind of exchange server thingie into normal servers? If I can buy cards for real money and those cards can give me items in the game, it means I can buy items in the game for real money? I realise it will only be some items that can be brought into the game by cards, but still. It will bring real money into the game and I'm very sad to see this. If I have misunderstood something, please let me know, because this does not sound good to me. </blockquote>From what I read, I believe that it will just be fan faire people in the beta for Legends of Norrath as a sort of reward for them attending.    Honestly, I do not think this is anything to get sad about because it looks like it will be a very very short beta.  It starts August 8th and they have said that it will be live in/by September. As for the loot cards, you only get a chance at getting a loot card when you purchase a starter or booster pack so you arent ensured of getting one.   But you can also find cards in game from monster drops.   Given the items, I do not think it will have a huge impact on the game.  It should be interesting because there is a story element and it could add to revenue directed at everquest 1 and 2 which is a good thing if that is directed in part to creating new stuff in game.

[Ronin SpoilSpot]

<cite>AbsentmindedMage wrote:</cite><blockquote> As for the loot cards, you only get a chance at getting a loot card when you purchase a starter or booster pack so you arent ensured of getting one.   But you can also find cards in game from monster drops.   Given the items, I do not think it will have a huge impact on the game.  It should be interesting because there is a story element and it could add to revenue directed at everquest 1 and 2 which is a good thing if that is directed in part to creating new stuff in game. </blockquote>For someone not interested in the card game, but interested in the loot card items, it seems there is only one way to get them: use real money (and try to sell the remaining cards on the broker afterwards). The rewards cannot be traded, so there is no other way. Adding a revenue stream is simple. Just add the choice to buy desireable items for real money. Missing a fabled or set item piece: just pa y $25 and collect the item at your local item shop .  The problem is how many people would quit, or at least have their experience signficant ly diminished, over a change like that. People who don't play on exchange servers because they don't want real money to matter. Who wants to play in an environment where we are all equal when we have paid our $15 per month [1]. Only SOE can guess how many of those there are, and how they will react (not that they necessarily guess correctly, of course) <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Loot cards is a way to sell items for real money. If there were no loot cards, it would just be a side game, but by making boosters into lottery tickets for real items, it opens the gate for people to spend unbounded to get an in-game advantage. I'd actually prefer if they just sold the items outright. Seems more honest. Or I could accept it if the items were tradeable, so they enter the normal economy. Hmm, maybe I should start selling plat to get money to buy boosters ... it somehow feels fair <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> /RS [1] At least in theory. Plat sellers appears to have a market, so it's not perfect. 

[cyclonus11]

Yessss!! I posted a similar idea back on the old boards, and I'm glad they're giving us something like this! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Lunani]

MMOG Nation interviewed John Smedley about it. seems like you can't just buy them off the broker. <p><b>MN:</b> Are the booster packs going to be sellable via the in-game economy?</p> <p><b>Smedley:</b> Actually no. One of the things we’re doing is making it so that you can’t sell any of these cards. That would be problematic for us. There would be some legal issues around that.</p> <p><b>MN:</b> Will players be able to trade?</p> <p><b>Smedley:</b> No. Otherwise we’ll get into a situation where the gold sellers will get into this, and we’re going to stop that cold.</p>you can read the full interview <a href="http://www.mmognation.com/2007/08/03/john-smedley-interview-on-legends-of-norrath/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">here</a>

[AbsentmindedMage]

I have played collectible card games before but I am curious about online collectible cards.  I mean if you buy a booster pack is it possible to get the same cards you already have or will you be ensured to get new cards.

[Ama]

<cite>retro_guy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>  Denver Post 8/11/2006</p> <p>Often overshadowed by the heavily marketed Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony console games, collectible trading cards have quietly developed into a solid moneymaking venture. While most online games earn $10 to $20 a month in player subscription fees, Martins said, a successful trading-card game can average more than $70 per month. </p></blockquote>Hmm, I don't like the sound of that, does that mean to participate in the card game our average monthly cost will need to go from $20 to $70+?? </blockquote><p>Actually not really since collectable online card games can be less.  When I looked at Pirates: CSG for my site I found that it was pretty dang cheap.  You payed a one time registration fee of like $12-$20 which was registered/tagged to your account then payed $3.99 whenever you wanted more ships.  Averaged out that $30-$70 per year for a regular person wouldn't be too much (bout $6 a month).  </p><p>The big thing is the program for Pirates: CSG is completely free to DL and play the tutorials.  After that you just have to pay the $12-$20 fee to access other parts of the game for trading.  </p>

[Cyanbane]

I just posted an interview  with Evan Ryans a few hours ago.   Explains the actual gameplay mechanics and card types of Legends of Norrath: To listen online (just click play on first song in playlist): <a href="href=http://www.eq2-daily.com/podcast.aspx" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">EQ2-Daily.com : Weekly Podcasts, Daily News about EQ2</a> To Download mp3 - right click save as: <a href="http://www.eq2daily.com/podcasts/EvanRyansInterview.mp3" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">FanFaire 2007 - Val Interviews Evan Ryans from SOE Denver about Legends of Norrath Details (mp3)</a>

[Calthine]

<p>I got some clarificaions which I'll add to my piece, but since folks are asking here...</p><p>What drops in game is good for a card pack.  You redeem the card pack in the Legends client and rare cards will have a /claim you can apply to your account.  Some of the EQ2 goodies we saw were a mount, a cool cloak, and a spell that shrinks you.  The card drops are on their own seperate loot table and will not replace any other loot you might get.  They will be chest drops.</p><p>Once the cards are in the client you can trade them with other Legends players.  Whatever the item is in game will be tradable/salable in game.</p><p>So technically you do not have to spend a dime.  The client is free with your EQ/EQ2 client, and card packs are available as drops in game.  You can redeem them to get a claim item whether you play or not.  However, to collect complete sets you will probably have to buy some.  </p><p>We were given no information on other ways to enter the Beta.</p><p>I *think* I recall that everyone gets a free starter deck, but I've packed my notes and may be misremembering.</p>

[xOnaton1]

The trailer doesn't show much other than cards flying around. <a href="http://www.gametrailers.com/player/23171.html?r=1&type=wmv" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.gametrailers.com/player/...=1&type=wmv</a> There are eight YouTube videos covering the Fan Faire Community Address but I haven't gotten to watch them yet. <a href="http://youtube.com/soevideos" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://youtube.com/soevideos</a> Othesus - Dirge - Lucan DLere Vaspar - Fury - Lucan DLere

[Tikku Lilledrum]

As much as I like the general idea of this, I can't imagine why Wizards of the Coast is going to let you guys walk away with this extremely blatant rip off of Magic the Gathering. Come on, 350 cards a set, 15-cards booster packs, redeeming on-line cards, rare/uncommon and commons and tournaments? From what I saw in the YouTube trailer, even the card-design almost looks the same. And did I see white and black creatures? As in; there will also be red, blue and green ones? And you guys do realize that there will be a flourishing trade on e-bay in Legends of Norrath" cards, especially since they can give in-game rewards.

[Glimmsterviryan]

Positive aspect: could be fun, I can see the synergy potentials. Negative aspect: I can smell a legal suit from Hasbro/ Wizards of the Coast. From top to bottom this game imitates the mechanics and look of Magic: the Gathering. I mean, perhaps terms like boosters, redeeming, starter decks etc. aren't copyrighted as such, but the there's a high degree of ripoffedness here. Also...most collectible card games have failed. After MtG became popular, about 200 different card games sprung up, and only a handful survive to this day.

[Devilsbane]

<cite>Glimmsterviryan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Positive aspect: could be fun, I can see the synergy potentials. Negative aspect: I can smell a legal suit from Hasbro/ Wizards of the Coast. From top to bottom this game imitates the mechanics and look of Magic: the Gathering. I mean, perhaps terms like boosters, redeeming, starter decks etc. aren't copyrighted as such, but the there's a high degree of ripoffedness here. Also...most collectible card games have failed. After MtG became popular, about 200 different card games sprung up, and only a handful survive to this day. </blockquote><p>Before MtG was released players of DnD would make "Helpers" that consisted of 3x5 cards listing information of Avatars, monsters, NPCs, inventory items, spells, etc. Some artistic players even included hand drawn illustrations.</p><p>Lunani wrote: </p><blockquote>MMOG Nation interviewed John Smedley about it. seems like you can't just buy them off the broker. <p><b>MN:</b> Are the booster packs going to be sellable via the in-game economy?</p><p><b>Smedley:</b> Actually no. One of the things we're doing is making it so that you can't sell any of these cards. That would be problematic for us. There would be some legal issues around that.</p><p><b>MN:</b> Will players be able to trade?</p><p><b>Smedley:</b> No. Otherwise we'll get into a situation where the gold sellers will get into this, and we're going to stop that cold.</p>you can read the full interview <a href="http://www.mmognation.com/2007/08/03/john-smedley-interview-on-legends-of-norrath/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">here</a> </blockquote><p> LOL, a collectible card game without trading of the cards. Only SOE would try that.  </p>

[ke'la]

<cite>Devilsbane wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Glimmsterviryan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Positive aspect: could be fun, I can see the synergy potentials. Negative aspect: I can smell a legal suit from Hasbro/ Wizards of the Coast. From top to bottom this game imitates the mechanics and look of Magic: the Gathering. I mean, perhaps terms like boosters, redeeming, starter decks etc. aren't copyrighted as such, but the there's a high degree of ripoffedness here. Also...most collectible card games have failed. After MtG became popular, about 200 different card games sprung up, and only a handful survive to this day. </blockquote><p>Before MtG was released players of DnD would make "Helpers" that consisted of 3x5 cards listing information of Avatars, monsters, NPCs, inventory items, spells, etc. Some artistic players even included hand drawn illustrations.</p><p>Lunani wrote: </p><blockquote>MMOG Nation interviewed John Smedley about it. seems like you can't just buy them off the broker. <p><b>MN:</b> Are the booster packs going to be sellable via the in-game economy?</p><p><b>Smedley:</b> Actually no. One of the things we're doing is making it so that you can't sell any of these cards. That would be problematic for us. There would be some legal issues around that.</p><p><b>MN:</b> Will players be able to trade?</p><p><b>Smedley:</b> No. Otherwise we'll get into a situation where the gold sellers will get into this, and we're going to stop that cold.</p>you can read the full interview <a href="http://www.mmognation.com/2007/08/03/john-smedley-interview-on-legends-of-norrath/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">here</a> </blockquote><p> LOL, a collectible card game without trading of the cards. Only SOE would try that.  </p></blockquote><p>Accually, the cards ARE tradeable just not "In-game" there are accually 2 terms they where using In-Game and In-TCG. In the TCG client you WILL be able to trade cards, as there are 4 classes Mage, Fighter, Scout, Healer for an Avatar "card" that you use wich works kinda like a caractor in game. If your Avatar is of the Class Fighter you can only use Fighter and Genaric Cards, so if you want to make a "Fighter Deck" you will want to trade away you Mage. scout and Healer cards for the Rarer Fighter cards. Atleast that was what they where saying at the Panel last night. </p><p>As for the "Loot Cards" they are NOT going to be something you'll want to use in combate as such you are not "buying" uber iteams(and like others have said booster packs will also drop in game) you are buying a Really cool looking cloak that gives you Endering Breath and Fae Fall, or a chargable iteam that turns you into a crate, or XP Potions, basicly the same types of iteams you always can get from /claim. Granted yeah there is a Rare mount as one of the cards so I guess you can avoid the 5p cost by buying and looting booster packs until you get a mount, but really other then that the iteams available are on the "thats cool" side of things and not the "thats useful". Side of things.</p><p>As to the person that asked if they go in using the out of game client to play will they use their same decks the answer is yes. </p>

[Calthine]

<p>What Ke`la said!  We actually spoke with the developers, it seems some info has changed since Smed's interview.</p><p>Y'all can find out fer sure when we start Beta testing.</p>

[metacell]

I think most changes to EQ2 up until now have been positive, but *this* *is* *a* *really* *bad* idea*. First, fantasy MMORPGs are a lot about immersing oneself. People want to imagine they're in another world for a little while, just like when watching a movie or reading a book. Mixing in elements from real-life or from other games breaks the suspension of disbelief. It's like watching a movie, when suddenly one of the characters starts advertising a shoe brand or a mortgage loan firm. If done without subtlety, things like that can really ruin a movie. Or a game. Second, any benefits in EQ1/2 acquired through the CCG (Collectible Card Game) will automatically devaluate the existing items in the game. Everyone will be affected, not just those who choose to play the CCG. Since EQ1/2 are built so heavily on effort & reward (doing mind-numbingly long quests just to acquire an item or zone access), devaluation of the rewards takes away the meaning of doing the quests. Third, have SoE really checked their demographics before coming up with this? I was under the impression that most people playing EQ1/2 were adults, and that collectible card games mostly attracted kids. I suspect the interest from EQ1/2 players in the CCG will be pretty low. I understand why SoE came up with this. They see the high revenues and profit margins of CCGs, and of course want a piece of the cake. By tieing the CCG into existing games, they hope to quickly build up a large player base. But I fear they may hurt their existing products (EQ1/2), and lose good-will with their customers, in the process.

[Krymson]

Meh, I've always enjoyed CCGs in the past (if not the tournament aspect, the deck building really appeals to me).  Is there any way for those of us who were unable to attend Fan Faire to join in on the beta?  Or do we just need to wait until this goes 'live' around September?

[Calthine]

<p>It was kinda funny, in one panel someone asked Scott Hartsman if they'd ever put Gems in EQ2.  This is way better.</p>

[Ama]

Hopefully we will get more information as things progress.  Right now things are getting a bit confusing imho and i'm getting mixed messages. 

[Ancalima]

Aquarius@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote>First, fantasy MMORPGs are a lot about immersing oneself. People want to imagine they're in another world for a little while, just like when watching a movie or reading a book. Mixing in elements from real-life or from other games breaks the suspension of disbelief. It's like watching a movie, when suddenly one of the characters starts advertising a shoe brand or a mortgage loan firm. If done without subtlety, things like that can really ruin a movie. Or a game. Second, any benefits in EQ1/2 acquired through the CCG (Collectible Card Game) will automatically devaluate the existing items in the game. Everyone will be affected, not just those who choose to play the CCG. Since EQ1/2 are built so heavily on effort & reward (doing mind-numbingly long quests just to acquire an item or zone access), devaluation of the rewards takes away the meaning of doing the quests. Third, have SoE really checked their demographics before coming up with this? I was under the impression that most people playing EQ1/2 were adults, and that collectible card games mostly attracted kids. I suspect the interest from EQ1/2 players in the CCG will be pretty low. I understand why SoE came up with this. They see the high revenues and profit margins of CCGs, and of course want a piece of the cake. By tieing the CCG into existing games, they hope to quickly build up a large player base. But I fear they may hurt their existing products (EQ1/2), and lose good-will with their customers, in the process. </blockquote>I think you have the wrong idea. First of all, there is a huge demographic of more adult players that play CCGs as far as I'm aware. But that's not even the point: many people have not even TRIED a CCG because they were never introduced to one, or they live in an area that doesn't do any tournaments, or something. An online CCG has the potential to be some of the most fun and competitive gameplay we've ever seen. And who's to say there isn't a lot of "kids" playing EQ/EQ2, anyway? To answer your second concern, from what we've seen these items are mainly cosmetic: most of the point of this isn't to give out uber rare items in game, it's to give players a second avenue of gaming in the comfort of their MMO. About immersion. Who's to say that the people of Norrath wouldn't make a card game featuring their own lore? It's just like any other mini game in my eyes. In fact, it may even add MORE immersion: I think you can play it at a tavern. Sure, this may be about profit, because what isn't? But they're gonna want to do a good job on it nonetheless or they won't see any profit whatsoever. Besides, as other people have stated, you don't even have to pay a dime if you don't want to. Cards can be found as loot. All in all, looks really exciting!

[Ninkobei]

I wonder if this game will be similar to Pox Nora. It's an online card-based strategy game. same basic principle..pay for your packs online and online is where they stay.

[Lilj]

Ancalima@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote> To answer your second concern, from what we've seen these items are mainly cosmetic: most of the point of this isn't to give out uber rare items in game, it's to give players a second avenue of gaming in the comfort of their MMO. </blockquote>I think you and I have different ideas about cosmetic for sure. I don't call +50% xp to all 3 types of xp for 1 hour cosmetic (adventurer+tradeskill+ achievement) and I don't call a 'a boost of power of 100%' for cosmetic either. Both are very valuable and those two will surely make a difference in the game. But perhaps such things are cosmetic to you, but sure aren't for me. I agree largely with Aquarius, although I'm not sure the card game will flop here, it has a good chance of success, especially with those that like the improved power it gives.

[ke'la]

<cite>Liljna wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ancalima@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote> To answer your second concern, from what we've seen these items are mainly cosmetic: most of the point of this isn't to give out uber rare items in game, it's to give players a second avenue of gaming in the comfort of their MMO. </blockquote>I think you and I have different ideas about cosmetic for sure. I don't call +50% xp to all 3 types of xp for 1 hour cosmetic (adventurer+tradeskill+ achievement) and I don't call a 'a boost of power of 100%' for cosmetic either. Both are very valuable and those two will surely make a difference in the game. But perhaps such things are cosmetic to you, but sure aren't for me. I agree largely with Aquarius, although I'm not sure the card game will flop here, it has a good chance of success, especially with those that like the improved power it gives. </blockquote><p>Being that you can get +50% Xp by typing /claim now as long as you have been in game for awhile thats not a big thing, especally when you are 70(80)/70(80)/100. Also being that the Booster packs WILL DROP IN GAME it means you can get these rare iteams from drops just like any other iteam. As far as making money for SoE you don't have to spend a dime if you don't want to as every EQ/EQ2 player will get a free starter deck and you can get Booster packs from drops.</p><p>And consitering games like Chess, and the 52 card deck card games are all based origanally on RL lore it make sence that there would be Card games that people play in taverns based on the lore of norath.</p><p>and yes I would call a LORE iteam that lets you ONCE A DAY go from 0 points of power to 100% power nearly cosmetic. </p>

[Lilj]

Ke'la, and how many of those 50% potions do we get by /claim? 3 per account? Compared to all you want and compared to a potion that gives 50% to achievement xp. Btw, what vet reward gives +50% bonus to achievement xp? I think it is a big boon for a raider to be able to fill up the entire powerbar once per day every day and for other players it will also be a boon, perhaps a nice one if PvP? But I have a feeling we can argue this till we are both blue in the face. I don't have anything against the card game idea itself, I actually think it's neat. And the ability to play acorss servers etc is really nice. My objection is that in-game items and real life money is connected, that is all. If that connection was removed, I think my objection would be too. Because all I see now is an item-shop in a bad disguise.

[ke'la]

<cite>Liljna wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ke'la, and how many of those 50% potions do we get by /claim? 3 per account?<span style="color: #cc0000"> Almost every milestone has and XP bonus and again once you hit lvl cap they become utterly usless heck I still have like 7 or 8 charges on my Monk and more on my Swash... who is not even at the lvl cap again these iteams are nice but not over powering. </span>Compared to all you want and compared to a potion that gives 50% to achievement xp. Btw, what vet reward gives +50% bonus to achievement xp?</p><p><span style="color: #cc0000">Now this is the exsact oppisit of XP poitions the ONLY people that would find a use for this are people accually at the lvl cap that have done most of the quests in game, and of course once you hit the AA cap again they become usless, meaning for the majority of the people they are either already usless or are only going to be useful for about 8 or 9 AA points max, even less when RoK comes out and addes even more quests, locations Discos, and Names you can earn AA from, heck most new players now a days reach the lvl cap and the AA cap nearly at the same time and the quest [Removed for Content] tend to accually hit the AA cap first.</span> I think it is a big boon for a raider to be able to fill up the entire powerbar once per day every day and for other players it will also be a boon, perhaps a nice one if PvP?</p><p><span style="color: #cc0000">Yeah its a big boon ON ONE FIGHT, ofcourse in that raid you could be AEed to death just after using that posion, wiping it out. Heck most raiders know enough about power control as to not accually need this posion(wich is also why the raiders are always upset when the "uber proc" on an Iteam is some form of "Flowing thought"(or other power regen), I mean there are already iteams out there that give tons of power and other ways to get power imediatly. if its needed, so again useful not game breaking...and I notice you didn't mechin the 10 or 11 other iteams in there just the one or two that if you Stretch them accually possably might be alittle over powered </span> But I have a feeling we can argue this till we are both blue in the face. I don't have anything against the card game idea itself, I actually think it's neat. And the ability to play acorss servers etc is really nice. My objection is that in-game items and real life money is connected, that is all.</p><p><span style="color: #cc0000">Again no its not as YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY A DIME TO GET THE ITEAMS. The gear will be available to any player free of charge as loot drop booster packs, or heck even in trade from people who buy booster packs as they play the trading card game, why because again most of these iteams will either lose thier usfullness to a player (ie they reach the caps and therefor don't need XP Posions) or they are LORE and therefor once they have one the second becomes far less valuable, as such if you have a game card they like from a booster pack drop then you can trade your game card for thier loot card, again without spending a dime.</span> If that connection was removed, I think my objection would be too. Because all I see now is an item-shop in a bad disguise. </p><p><span style="color: #cc0000">Consitering you can get these iteams without spending any money(see above) I don't see how these iteams wich at worst are VERY siduational in thier usefulness, anything other then a fun thing for players to do. Because I seriously doupt you will find many players shelling out $4.00 x 8(the average likly hood of a loot card is 1 in 8 packs) for a CHANCE to get a 1 charge XP potion or a once a day LORE Power boost, especally when they can get those same packs for free from in game drops. </span> </p></blockquote>

[Calthine]

Here, Ke`la, let me help you reiterate <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> This game, and the drops do not require you to spend any money unless you want to obsessively collect cards. The client is free, integrated into the game.  There is no additional cost to you. While you CAN buy decks and booster packs, you do not HAVE to.  They are available as drops.  The cards that have /claim items are rare. The drop table is random and is chest loot.  Okay, there's bound to be some obsessive fool who will buy booster packs until they get the mount they've always wanted, but I think they'll be in the minority. Beta starts this week, let's see how it goes, hm?

[kukubird]

TCG?  Hmm trading crad game..... hmmm can't trade cards...... LMFAO What is next?  A mmo where you cna't loging to play?  You just buy the game and the game plays for you without you playing?  Come on...... TCG great idea... now go with it and make it so people can enjoy ONE OF THE BIGGEST PARTS OF A TCG                                       TRADING THE CARDS! Someone at Denver studios that understands these games should get some balls and tell smed it is one of, if not the biggest, parts of these games.

[Lilj]

ke'la wrote: <blockquote><blockquote> <p><span style="color: #cc0000">Consitering you can get these iteams without spending any money(see above) I don't see how these iteams wich at worst are VERY siduational in thier usefulness, anything other then a fun thing for players to do. Because I seriously doupt you will find many players shelling out $4.00 x 8(the average likly hood of a loot card is 1 in 8 packs) for a CHANCE to get a 1 charge XP potion or a once a day LORE Power boost, especally when they can get those same packs for free from in game drops. </span> </p></blockquote> </blockquote>If this is true, they could simply remove the connection betwen in-game items and real money. Meaning that you could only get in-game items from cards you found in th game. You could still get the card from the booster packs, but you could only play with the card in the card game. If you are right, they could remove the connection I am worried about and no one would get hurt. Players could still hunt in the game for the in-game cards/items and card players could still buy cards and play with them. Who would get hurt if that connection were removed? If you are right, I don't think anyone is. Am I really asking for too much here?

[AbsentmindedMage]

<cite>Liljna wrote:</cite><blockquote>ke'la wrote: <blockquote><blockquote> <p><span style="color: #cc0000">Consitering you can get these iteams without spending any money(see above) I don't see how these iteams wich at worst are VERY siduational in thier usefulness, anything other then a fun thing for players to do. Because I seriously doupt you will find many players shelling out $4.00 x 8(the average likly hood of a loot card is 1 in 8 packs) for a CHANCE to get a 1 charge XP potion or a once a day LORE Power boost, especally when they can get those same packs for free from in game drops. </span> </p></blockquote> </blockquote>If this is true, they could simply remove the connection betwen in-game items and real money. Meaning that you could only get in-game items from cards you found in th game. You could still get the card from the booster packs, but you could only play with the card in the card game. If you are right, they could remove the connection I am worried about and no one would get hurt. Players could still hunt in the game for the in-game cards/items and card players could still buy cards and play with them. Who would get hurt if that connection were removed? If you are right, I don't think anyone is. Am I really asking for too much here? </blockquote> Yes, but I really think it is those in-game items that will tempt people to purchase the boosters and cards.    In World of Warcraft which they mention, there are some loot cards that sell for over a hundred dollars on ebay and people actually pay for it.   Never underestimate the fan base's determination to get a rare bauble.   <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Personally, I can understand what you are saying in terms of the mounts since those are a big investment and most require being part of a guild.   I think instead of mounts they should have offerred fluff pets like the original everquest loot cards seem to do.

[Calthine]

<cite>kukubird wrote:</cite><blockquote>TCG?  Hmm trading crad game..... hmmm can't trade cards...... LMFAO What is next?  A mmo where you cna't loging to play?  You just buy the game and the game plays for you without you playing?  Come on...... TCG great idea... now go with it and make it so people can enjoy ONE OF THE BIGGEST PARTS OF A TCG                                       TRADING THE CARDS! Someone at Denver studios that understands these games should get some balls and tell smed it is one of, if not the biggest, parts of these games. </blockquote> The cards may be all virtual, but you can trade them with other players (from both EQ and EQ2) in the client <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Polyneikes]

<p>It does not stand to question that you HAVE to buy the cards with RL cash, alone the possibility should not be given. Especially if the cards can be traded in-game! This means that there will be means for people to  </p><p>a) use RL cash to get an ingame advantage, both by completing decks of course (even if the effects aren't too high to make a game-breaking difference), but even more worrying is the fact that we now have a legal method of transforming RL cash into game currency</p><p>b) to make RL cash out of the game by selling the cards that dropped from mobs or that they traded off other people etc.</p><p>These are mechanisms that I would not want to see on a non-exchange server, lets just hope they considered this and at least made the cards no-trade.</p>

[Geinoch]

<p>I'm about to cry... We are complaining about bugs that never been fixed since the begining of the game... We would like to see new zone, new equipment, PvP fix, etc... And during that time... They are working on a [Removed for Content] trading card game?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?</p><p>And I see people here who are like my dog when I offer him an old moist milkybone cookie out of date... Moving the tail ready to give em money for any stupid Idea they are creating just because it's linked to EQ... Hey maybe next time they will coming out with EQ2 underwear "This is where adventure comes alive!" and I'm sure the same people will say Wow !!!! I'm preordering it because it give a baby griffon in my house and the title "Slave"!!!!!!!!!!</p><p>What's hapening here!? Are you blind!?</p><p>(I wish I speak perfectly in English, because I'm not even saying half of what I'm thinking about it!!!)</p>

[Znurf]

<p>Legends???  Nerfs in every Game update??  Now you say,  EQ2... You Guys playin Cards??? Worlds Apart???  </p><p> That we are SOE, that we are! - Sayonara!! </p>

[AbsentmindedMage]

<cite>Geinoch wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'm about to cry... We are complaining about bugs that never been fixed since the begining of the game... We would like to see new zone, new equipment, PvP fix, etc... And during that time... They are working on a [I cannot control my vocabulary] trading card game?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?</p><p>And I see people here who are like my dog when I offer him an old moist milkybone cookie out of date... Moving the tail ready to give em money for any stupid Idea they are creating just because it's linked to EQ... Hey maybe next time they will coming out with EQ2 underwear "This is where adventure comes alive!" and I'm sure the same people will say Wow !!!! I'm preordering it because it give a baby griffon in my house and the title "Slave"!!!!!!!!!!</p><p>What's hapening here!? Are you blind!?</p><p>(I wish I speak perfectly in English, because I'm not even saying half of what I'm thinking about it!!!)</p></blockquote>I do not see why you are crying.   I have been playing the game for over 2 years and within that time I havent seen any major bugs that have gone without being fixed.   The card game is coming from a different division within SOE.  So, I do not think it has caused any decrease in productivity of the developers of either Eq2 or Eq1.   We have seen a lot of zones added through expansions and live updates.   They are making live updates bigger than in the past (e.g. Neriak & Darklight Forest).   The skeletal revamp is being done to make it possible to produce new equipment with more variety.  Right now they have to reshape and refit every piece of equipment to every race and gender.  It is not like you have to "preorder" or buy anything.   The client and a starter pack is provided to everyone who is a player of everquest 2.  And as others have repeated a number of times now, the cards will be added to the loot table so you can collect them in game and get in-game loot from them.

[Geinoch]

<blockquote>The card game is coming from a different division within SOE.  So, I do not think it has caused any decrease in productivity of the developers of either Eq2 or Eq1. </blockquote><p> Oh ok the 350 loot card + pack and everything, the client and the update... the patch downloader everything is magically put in the game by an unknown will...</p><p>And for the bugs.... If you want to find some just read some post everywhere on the forum :/</p><p>FOr the preorder it was a kind of analogy with the fact that you have to buy something to get items in the game... Like buying plat...</p><p>You look like someone who will buy for 70$ month of expansion pack card... Sorry if I'm telling you the truth it may hurt sometimes</p>

[ke'la]

<cite>AbsentmindedMage wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Geinoch wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'm about to cry... We are complaining about bugs that never been fixed since the begining of the game... We would like to see new zone, new equipment, PvP fix, etc... And during that time... They are working on a [I cannot control my vocabulary] trading card game?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?</p><p>And I see people here who are like my dog when I offer him an old moist milkybone cookie out of date... Moving the tail ready to give em money for any stupid Idea they are creating just because it's linked to EQ... Hey maybe next time they will coming out with EQ2 underwear "This is where adventure comes alive!" and I'm sure the same people will say Wow !!!! I'm preordering it because it give a baby griffon in my house and the title "Slave"!!!!!!!!!!</p><p>What's hapening here!? Are you blind!?</p><p>(I wish I speak perfectly in English, because I'm not even saying half of what I'm thinking about it!!!)</p></blockquote>I do not see why you are crying.   I have been playing the game for over 2 years and within that time I havent seen any major bugs that have gone without being fixed.   The card game is coming from a different division within SOE.  So, I do not think it has caused any decrease in productivity of the developers of either Eq2 or Eq1.   We have seen a lot of zones added through expansions and live updates.   They are making live updates bigger than in the past (e.g. Neriak & Darklight Forest).   The skeletal revamp is being done to make it possible to produce new equipment with more variety.  Right now they have to reshape and refit every piece of equipment to every race and gender.  It is not like you have to "preorder" or buy anything.   The client and a starter pack is provided to everyone who is a player of everquest 2.  And as others have repeated a number of times now, the cards will be added to the loot table so you can collect them in game and get in-game loot from them. </blockquote>Also the current plan is to NOT have the cards themselfs tradable in game, however the Loot Drop Booster Packs maybe tradable. Once you consume the Booster Pack and its now in a Differant game, disigned by the people whos last project was the Pirates Trading card game, thats right THEY DON'T WORK ON EQ OR EQ2, this other game can be played from within EQ2 or EQ1 or as a Standalone client, however once an Expantion pack it consumed into this game the ONLY way to trade cards will be from inside the Trading Card game, you will NOT be able to buy a card for Plat directly though I guess you could give a player a card in the TCG and then have that player give you Plat in game, however sence the TCG is not only cross server its also cross game so it will be hard to find a "buyer" for your card without tipping off the Devs that you are accually attemting an RMT of some kind.

[ke'la]

<cite>Geinoch wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>The card game is coming from a different division within SOE.  So, I do not think it has caused any decrease in productivity of the developers of either Eq2 or Eq1. </blockquote><p> Oh ok the 350 loot card + pack and everything, the client and the update... the patch downloader everything is magically put in the game by an unknown will...</p><p>And for the bugs.... If you want to find some just read some post everywhere on the forum :/</p><p>FOr the preorder it was a kind of analogy with the fact that you have to buy something to get items in the game... Like buying plat...</p><p>You look like someone who will buy for 70$ month of expansion pack card... Sorry if I'm telling you the truth it may hurt sometimes</p></blockquote><p>you know that handy little browser that was put into the game months ago? You do? well guess what the Devs over at SoE-Denver are using that system along with the chat system both are part of SoE's PLATFORM department to integrate this into the game. You know the platform department right? Its the same one that the Devs over at Gods and Heroes and Pirates of the Burning Sea are using to bring there games on-line. So while yes there are SoE devs working on the intigration they are also not part of the EQ2 dev team and not taking dev time away from other matters. BTW I would like to see you tell me one bug that is still in the game that has lasted more then 3 or 4 LUs.</p><p>BTW its like 13 loot cards and  350 game cards. </p>

[Prodigus]

Think of it like tradeskills (or transmuting/tinkering for that matter), you dont have to do but its there if you choose.  If you dont like the idea then dont invest any time or money in it. <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Me personally, I would never have anything to do with trading cards (Magic, etc) but after seeing some of the unique items it has peaked my interest, but I wouldnt go out and spend actual cash on something.

[Geinoch]

<p>Well Ke'la I recognize that you have a good point about the devs team... But stay the fact that you still have to spend money to be better in the game... I don't think it's very fair to "buy" equipment... </p><p>And for a bug that staying long time I can say the endless music when fighting...</p><p>The pet getting the group stuck in combat that stay mor than 4 LU</p><p>The giant deseapearing in the cave of Permafrost ({--- since the begining of the game]</p><p>Enemies crossing wall ({--- since the begining of the game]</p><p>Sometime we still fall in the oblivion of the map and die ({--- since the begining of the game]</p><p>Etc...</p>

[Lilj]

Regarding trading and plat spammers. I imagine these cards can be farmed like everything else in the game, so one of the gold farming/selling companies could start farming cards. They can then have a 3rd party website where they sell the cards (just like gold today). I can then meet the seller in the card browser and we can 'trade' cards (I get the rare card and he gets either no card or a common card) and his company has received my money over the internet by creditcard or whatever. I haven't heard what they are going to do to prevent this and trust me, it will happen.

[Freliant]

<p>Bah.. I am getting annoyed by reading some of these complaining posts... they show how much they really know.</p><p>1) The SOE Denver studios was working on this card game exclusively. They are a seperate division than those who are developing things for EQ2. LoN is a different game than EQ/EQ2 and has its own people working on it... all they did in EQ and EQ2 is add a button to open the game interface... is that really such a time consuming thing to get worked up about?</p><p>2) The card drops are most likely going to be no trade in game. Meaning, whoever finds it, loots it and examines it to apply the cards to his game account. Once in the LoN game, he can do whatever he wants with those card. So there will be no selling of those cards in EQ or EQ2. The loot cards that convert into game items will also be no trade ONCE they are consumed. So that nice cloak or mount will not be tradeable to anyone else.</p><p>3) This is still a TCG, but you cannot trade in game.. only in the LoN interface.</p><p>4) Some rare cards will be in the booster packs... HOWEVER, you have no idea which booster pack will have em, and you can't just purchase a specific card... you can only trade for it. And that will mean, that if you really want some of those rare items that can be converted into a game item, you will most likely have to spend hundreds of dollars doing so... GL with that. Will some third party companies sell these cards? Probably, but the cost to actually adquire these cards will be so great that they have to pass down the cost to the person who wants to buy it... so 500+ dollars for a mount... yeah, I don't see it happening anytime soon.</p>

[Ronin SpoilSpot]

Calthine wrote: <blockquote> The cards may be all virtual, but you can trade them with other players (from both EQ and EQ2) in the client <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>Ok, I could really use a definitive and <b>complete</b> description of which trades are possible. My impression so far is: Decks: Bought only. Tradeable in LoN client? Boosters: Bought or looted. Tradeable (unopened) in LoN client? in EQ2 client? Playing cards: Received when opening deck or booster. Tradeable in LoN client? Loot cards: Received from boosters. Tradeable in LoN client? or bound when booster is opened? Loot items: Attached to account by loot card, then claimed. Untradeable. It's a money machine, like all trading card games. No two ways about that. It's designed to make people want to buy more and more (while giving less and less back, because you are already overflowing in common cards). I'm certain that SOE added loot cards as an incentive to buy more boosters than you need to play the card game. This opens the door to buying items for money. It's no different than if they sold lottery tickets to win an in-game item, say a 50% speed mount. Would that be acceptable on non-exchange servers? If not, why is this? The items might be almost unimportant (at least if nerfed a little) for now, but each new card expansion will undoubtedly introduce more loot cards that are slightly more desireable. How long will it be before Bottled Intellect becomes mandatory in raid guilds? I also want the link between in-game items and real money severed. Keep loot item cards in looted boosters for all I care. Then it'll just be a rare item. But that won't happen, because the business reason for loot items is the sale of boosters. /RS

[Calthine]

Everything is tradable in the LoN client.  The rare cards with a claim are tradable in the client.  The /claim item is "bound" when the claim code is redeemed, so I suppose you can trade them with or without. I thought I'd heard the drop that gets you a booster pack was in-game tradable, but I'm in the minority so it's likely I'm mistaken. We'll all know more when Beta starts.

[Off]

All these negative posts about what will be and blah blah blah... No one really knows for sure how things will be until at least Beta.  Here's the bottom line though.  You are not forced to play.  You will not have to spend extra money if you don't want to.  If you choose to play and you choose to spend money, that's on you.  Don't blame anyone for you choosing to spend more money.  As for me, I'm really looking forward to this game.  It's interesting, it reminds me of my MtG days, and to be honest, I think it will be fun.  I may not buy any booster packs or starter decks, as we get one from launch, but that's my choice.  I'm not in it to win it, I'm just here to have fun and enjoy things.  Let the games begin!

[DocFlareon]

Read closely now. . . <p><span style="font-size: x-large"><b>MN:</b> Are the booster packs going to be sellable via the in-game economy?</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: x-large">Smedley: Actually no. One of the things we’re doing is making it so that you can’t sell any of these cards. That would be problematic for us. There would be some legal issues around that.</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: x-large"><b>MN:</b> Will players be able to trade?</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: x-large"><b>Smedley:</b> No. Otherwise we’ll get into a situation where the gold sellers will get into this, and we’re going to stop that cold.</span></p>

[Devilsbane]

Ekaunek@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>Read closely now. . . <p><span style="font-size: xx-small"><b>MN:</b> Are the booster packs going to be sellable via the in-game economy?</span></p><p><span style="font-size: xx-small">Smedley: Actually no. One of the things we’re doing is making it so that you can’t sell any of these cards. That would be problematic for us. There would be some legal issues around that.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: xx-small"><b>MN:</b> Will players be able to trade?</span></p><p><span style="font-size: xx-small"><b>Smedley:</b> No. Otherwise we’ll get into a situation where the gold sellers will get into this, and we’re going to stop that cold.</span></p> </blockquote><p> Read this very closely now!</p><p><b>You further acknowledge that SOE can and will, in its discretion, modify features, functions or abilities of any element of the game or any Virtual Goods (which may, among other things, make the Virtual Goods substantially more effective or functional, or less effective or functional, more common or less common, or eliminated entirely). </b></p>

[Ronin SpoilSpot]

Ekaunek@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>Read closely now. . . <p><b><span style="font-size: x-small">MN:</span></b><span style="font-size: x-small"> Are the booster packs going to be sellable via the in-game economy?</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small">Smedley: Actually no. One of the things we’re doing is making it so that you can’t sell any of these cards. That would be problematic for us. There would be some legal issues around that.</span></p><p><b><span style="font-size: x-small">MN:</span></b><span style="font-size: x-small"> Will players be able to trade?</span></p><p><b><span style="font-size: x-small">Smedley:</span></b><span style="font-size: x-small"> No. Otherwise we’ll get into a situation where the gold sellers will get into this, and we’re going to stop that cold.</span></p> </blockquote>(font reduced to save space) <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> True. It answers one of my questions (boosters tradable inside EQ2). However, it won't stop trading if you can do it via the LoN client instead, and every EQ2 client has a LoN client built in. It's harder to ensure a safe trade if in-game money is traded in one window and cards in another, but it's hardly impossible. Nothing prevents a RMT from selling cards anyway. Their problem is getting the cards to sell, but I guess that's nothing a farmer bot can't handle <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> /RS

[DocFlareon]

I think Legends of Norrath will be a Collectible game, but it will NOT be a Trading game.  In other words, whether you buy the booster cards for the mini game, or get boosters as loot, once you have the cards, they are yours forever.  No bartering with other players for cards under any circumstances.  That will stop the plat farmers cold, as Smedley said.

[AbsentmindedMage]

Ekaunek@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>I think Legends of Norrath will be a Collectible game, but it will NOT be a Trading game.  In other words, whether you buy the booster cards for the mini game, or get boosters as loot, once you have the cards, they are yours forever.  No bartering with other players for cards under any circumstances.  That will stop the plat farmers cold, as Smedley said. </blockquote>The information is on www.legendsofnorrath.com "Legends of Norrath is an online-only <b>trading</b> card game".   More over it says: "Featuring tools perfected through five previous collectable trading games, utilize the Deck Builder, Collection Manager, Trade Lobby, Tournament Lobby and numerous Casual Games Lobbies where you can find opponents any time of the day or night." I doubt they would have a trade lobby if the cards were not tradeable.   I believe that when John said they were not tradeable he was refering to in the everquest game client as others have already said also.   

[Devilsbane]

<p>The idea that in-game drops will not be tradeable is ridiculous. It will just increase customer service inquires for all the ninja looting of in-game drops. Plus not everyone will play the <b>trading</b> card game. There will need to be a way to trade drops between non card players and card players.</p><p>I am just imagining how many posters are thinking, "Oh my did he say not everyone will play the card game?!". </p><p>As a MtG veteran I am glad that cards will be attainable without purchase. Having a new 350 card series every 3-9 months would be just ludicrous without this avenue of acquisition.</p>

[Calthine]

<cite>Devilsbane wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The idea that in-game drops will not be tradeable is ridiculous. It will just increase customer service inquires for all the ninja looting of in-game drops. </p> </blockquote> They're chest drops.  There's a timer.  IMO if you wait 3-4 minutes to loot your chest, you must not have wanted it.

[ke'la]

<p>The truth is until beta starts even the devs are not shure what and how things will be traded. You will be able to trade cards in the TCG Client, but not in-game that is certain as the game client does not support indevisual cards. Right now the THINK you will be able to trade loot drop booster packs in game but there maybe some leagle issues with that. However, consitering the rarity of the Loot cards especally the rare ones like mounts and boubles, if RMT places did infact start selling them, chances are they would cost a forchune.</p><p>First, the booster packs themselfs are chest drops wich makes the free packs rare(RMT Places are not going to buy 100s of dollars of packs for loot cards)</p><p>Second, once you get a pack you have a 1 in 8 chance of accually getting any loot card.</p><p>Third, certain loot cards are Rare, so even if you accually get a loot card most of the time the card will be a commin loot card like an XP Poision.</p><p> As far as Raid Groups requiring you carry the 100% power heal iteam, well consitering it's only good once a day, and there for only good on one fight in the raid, and consitering that most Raiders get upset when Fabled iteams have Power Regen on them as thier proc. I seriously doupt that it will become a requirement of Raid Guilds</p>

[Devilsbane]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Devilsbane wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The idea that in-game drops will not be tradeable is ridiculous. It will just increase customer service inquires for all the ninja looting of in-game drops. </p> </blockquote> They're chest drops.  There's a timer.  IMO if you wait 3-4 minutes to loot your chest, you must not have wanted it. </blockquote><p>Calthine, </p><p>I am talking about groups, loot options, and bad RNG rolls. This would not bother me since I solo exclusively for quest items. Even more so since GU 37. <img src="/smilies/1069449046bcd664c21db15b1dfedaee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Besides like most players I have alts. So if the in-game drops are NO-TRADE only my main will get the benefit of the special items. How many characters need those special potions once their AA, adventure, or tradeskill experience are maxed?! Unless the special items are open to all of an account's characters via the /claim window, a NO-TRADE flag on those drops make no sense. </p>

[Calthine]

Well, like I said, I swear I heard the redeemable-for-a-card-pack item was tradable, but many people seem to have heard different.  Give us a couple days, we'll know for sure.

[Josgar]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, like I said, I swear I heard the redeemable-for-a-card-pack item was tradable, but many people seem to have heard different.  Give us a couple days, we'll know for sure. </blockquote> Thats what i thought too... that the redeemable-for-a-card-pack item was brokerable/tradeable... but you couldnt sell individual cards?

[ke'la]

<cite>Josgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, like I said, I swear I heard the redeemable-for-a-card-pack item was tradable, but many people seem to have heard different.  Give us a couple days, we'll know for sure. </blockquote> Thats what i thought too... that the redeemable-for-a-card-pack item was brokerable/tradeable... but you couldnt sell individual cards?</blockquote> Thats the way I heard it.

[Ancalima]

<cite>Devilsbane wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The idea that in-game drops will not be tradeable is ridiculous. </p></blockquote>Well, the people on the other side of the fence are complaining that the cards are tradeable in the LoN trade lobby, because they think it will bring income for the gold sellers. Can't please everybody, I guess.

[Devilsbane]

ke'la wrote: <blockquote><cite>Josgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, like I said, I swear I heard the redeemable-for-a-card-pack item was tradable, but many people seem to have heard different.  Give us a couple days, we'll know for sure. </blockquote> Thats what i thought too... that the redeemable-for-a-card-pack item was brokerable/tradeable... but you couldnt sell individual cards?</blockquote> Thats the way I heard it.</blockquote><p>Sure cards can not be traded within EQ or EQ2. Since LoN is a separate client, we could see a separate Station Exchange for that client.</p><p>Ancalima@Antonia Bayle wrote: </p><blockquote><cite>Devilsbane wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The idea that in-game drops will not be tradeable is ridiculous. </p></blockquote>Well, the people on the other side of the fence are complaining that the cards are tradeable in the LoN trade lobby, because they think it will bring income for the gold sellers. Can't please everybody, I guess. </blockquote><p> Make LoN exclusively Station Exchange trades. Gold seller problem not 100% solved, but reasonably manageable. <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </p>

[Gorhauth]

My biggest concern with this is in a game like this, whoever has the most cards has a better chance of winning the game.  The beta testers are going to start off with the starter pack (or was it two starters?) and then get two booster packs a week until it goes live.  After that, they keep the cards they have. Nobody is going to be able to compete with that unless they spend the money to catch up.

[Off]

I thought about that too, but in reality, no one really knows if it's just one game and then something starts over, or if different competitors have their own game, or what.  I'm still happy with this virtual game, and I look forward to seeing what it's all about.  Like I said before, I'm not in it to win it, I'm just here to have fun.

[Ariellia]

I think this is a great idea and I am really excited about it. Nevertheless, I am kind of disappointed at the number of people who appear to be overreacting a bit over this addition. Some people have already seemed to have addressed these concerns, but since a lot of people keep bringing up the same complaints over and over even after being answered, I guess it doesn't hurt to address them again. <b> It breaks the immersion. </b>If you don't want to play the card game, you don't have to. The items available through the card game are not very powerful and not having them will not adverse affect you. If you choose not to play the game, the only way you will ever see it will be through an extra button in your interface (start menu?) somewhere, and the chest drops which are redeemable for card decks in the TCG. You can destroy those items if you want to. As others have said, it is certainly not unreasonable that Norrathians would have invented a card game of sorts to play in taverns.  I would say the in-game web browser breaks immersion way more than this feature, but it is another feature you don't need to use if you don't want to. <b>Sony has been wasting time on this instead of fixing bugs. </b>As has been mentioned multiple times already, the section of Sony that developed this game was recently acquired (bought) by Sony. They were a company that made card games, and now they are creating a new one. This sector has no affiliation or involvement with developing content for any other section of the game. The TCG is their sole purpose. Thus, this new addition would not affect the addition of other new content, or fixing bugs. Also, like others, I have hardly ever seen bugs that have gone more than one LU. If you want see bugs that go on so long they are features, try WoW <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <b>It attaches real money to in-game items. </b>As others have said, even if you want to play the game, you don't have to spend real money. Every EQ2 player will get a starter deck when the game goes live, and booster packs will be available as drops. I personally don't plan to spend any money on cards (at least not right now), but will look forward to getting a drop every once in a while. As for the concern about "gold-farmer" transactions taking place within the TCG. As another has said, in the TCG you will be playing against players from all EQ1 AND EQ2 servers. This will make it difficult to find a buyer from your particular server unless you know them already. Let's theoretically say that a gold-farmer puts a card up for sale on his site under a particular server. Someone pays real money on the gold-farmer's site for the card, and then goes into the TCG client to pick up the card. Yes, this is wrong. But I fail to see how it is any different than the thousand of gold-farmer transactions that probably go on every day. How is this any different from someone buying a piece of rare armor or a thousand plat on a gold-farmer's website and then logging on to retrieve it? This sort of thing happens all the time, or else the gold-farmers would have given up by now. I thus don't see how this new addition would make the gold-seller problem any worse than it already is. I would personally be more concerned about people buying plat than buying a unique but not-very-valuable item. We also know that individual cards will not be tradeable in-game. We are unclear whether the item that is claimable for a booster pack (which drops in-game) is tradeable in game. Even if it is, however, there is no way to tell whether the booster pack you claim will contain a loot card, or what loot card it will contain. So all you would be paying for a is a slim chance to get a random loot card using some in-game cash. Of course the more items you buy the greater your chances become, but it doesn't seem any different than buying a ticket from the Gigglegibber Goblin Game Vendor to me. I don't see anyone complaining about the already-existent lottery game. Maybe I am missing a crucial point of these complaints somewhere, but to me, it seems like we should at least wait until the game is live before complaining about it.

[Calthine]

I'm just gonna interject this Smed quote in here again.  <cite>Smed11 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I wanted to get a few comments out regarding LoN.</p><p> 1) This is a first and foremost a card game - and you don't have to spend a dime if you don't want to. We're giving away free starter packs to all EQ and EQ II subscribers</p><p> 2) If you don't want to spend money on cards - you can get booster packs as drops in-game just by killing stuff. This means that you can also get the same in-game loot items without spending money.. including the rare stuff.</p><p> 3) The game is intended to bring a different kind of gameplay into both EQ and EQ II - we want to offer greater variety of gameplay in addition to the normal expansion packs. Are we going to make money from it? Yes.</p><p>4) You will NOT be able to trade the in-game items. We are spending a lot of time and effort fighting plat-sellers and we didn't want to put in a mechanic that attracts more of them. THIS INCLUDES THE BAZZAR SERVERS ON EQ II (i.e. too bad.. no selling these items period).</p><p>5) This is not some slippery slope towards selling items directly in EQ & EQ II. We had a cool idea for a card game set within the lore common to both games. Yes, we chose to include in-game loot as part of the fun rewards you could get when you open booster packs. However, as I said... you don't have to spend a dime to get exactly the same things. I should also point out that these items are similar to Veteran rewards or pre-order items in that they tend to be more fun.. not some big powerful in-game item.</p><p> Smed</p></blockquote> <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=375483" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=375483</a>

[metacell]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm just gonna interject this Smed quote in here again.  [...] <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=375483" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=375483</a> </blockquote>Thank you, it makes it easier to comment on them. Smedley says, "the game is intended to bring a different kind of gameplay into both EQ and EQ II". I don't believe for a moment the reason behind LoN is to make EQ1/2 more enjoyable. I don't think the design team sat down, asking themselves "How can we make Everquest more fun for everyone?", and came up with an integrated card game as the solution. That's would be a very strange design decision. More likely, the marketing team came up with this solution to make their existing games (EQ1/2) and player base more profitable, and generate interest for the stand-alone LoN client. If it makes EQ1/2 more enjoyable, it's at most a side effect. Not that there's anything wrong with making money. EQ needs to be profitable to survive. I hope SoE gets a healthy profit from the Everquest games, so they can hire more programmers and art designers. We must not forget, however, that the interests of SoE are not the same as the interests of the players. The players' interests are having as much fun as possible for a reasonable price. SoE's interest is to make as much money as possible. As long as we pay a monthly fee to play, SoE has an incentive to make the game so fun that people will stay. The sale of booster packs, though, gives SoE an incentive to make changes to the game that might make it less enjoyable. They may be willing to lessen the enjoyment of Everquest and have a few percent of players leaving, if they can make up for it in sales of booster packs, but they are unlikely to go through with it if they think they will lose, say, 30% or more of the players. That's why it's important we players protest when we think SoE has a really bad idea. They won't know it will hurt them financially, if we don't tell them. It's in SoE's best interests if their players tell them when something diminishes their enjoyment of the games. (And I think everyone will be affected, not just those who choose to play the CCG. We'll be reminded of the CCG every time a card drops as loot, in chat channels, etc.)

[Polyneikes]

Aquarius@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote>They may be willing to lessen the enjoyment of Everquest and have a few percent of players leaving, if they can make up for it in sales of booster packs, but they are unlikely to go through with it if they think they will lose, say, 30% or more of the players. That's why it's important we players protest when we think SoE has a really bad idea. They won't know it will hurt them financially, if we don't tell them. It's in SoE's best interests if their players tell them when something diminishes their enjoyment of the games. (And I think everyone will be affected, not just those who choose to play the CCG. We'll be reminded of the CCG every time a card drops as loot, in chat channels, etc.) </blockquote>Nicely said, and I for one don't like the idea of buying in-game items with RL-cash. If (as it seems) cards can be traded in the LON then we suddenly have a legal means of buying plat, courtesy of SOE.

[Lithran]

hey folks. Here are screenshots I took while at Fan Faire of what the client looks like. All I have to say is I cannot wait till this comes out. Nay say it all you want, but I know from playing this that it's MUCH better then jewels. Though, I cannot imagine playing this while waiting for a raid, because it's not a short playing game. The first one is the main screen of the client looks like <img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1208/1041202052_b879e262e3.jpg" border="0"> This one the play area of the screen. It's divided into 4 quadrants. the lower 2 are yours, the upper two your opponent. Left and right is then for 2 different quests you "battle" for. The bottom middle is what your avatar is based on what card you choose to start with. Lower left is your Items you use and the right is your abilities. Quests are also levels so the one you see in the screen is a level 2 (you can just see the number 2 in a circle. Once you get that quest it goes to a higher level quest. Right at the bottom of that are your cards. You cannot see them but if you mouse over the title of the card it pops up and shows you stats and info on the card. On the bottom middle you can see that my attack is 2, my defense is 2 and my extra hitting ability is 1. The red bar is your health and the blue bar is your power. <img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1137/1041200532_b381287f57.jpg" border="0"> Below is a picture of the tutorial that comes with the game, and I would highly suggest you do it. It's very informative. <img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1167/1040345121_78303df075.jpg" border="0"> And this is a sneak peak we got of the cards available. We got to browse through them all. Well I did :> <img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1056/1040351803_d763c10658.jpg" border="0"> edited: Missing links. Stupid flickr. I must have deleted them by accident.

[Josgar]

<cite>Gorhauth wrote:</cite><blockquote>My biggest concern with this is in a game like this, whoever has the most cards has a better chance of winning the game.  The beta testers are going to start off with the starter pack (or was it two starters?) and then get two booster packs a week until it goes live.  After that, they keep the cards they have. Nobody is going to be able to compete with that unless they spend the money to catch up. </blockquote>Ive played alot of games that let you have as many cards as you want... and trust me its a pain in the butt to get cards worth while.  

[Vith]

Aquarius@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote>I don't believe for a moment the reason behind LoN is to make EQ1/2 more enjoyable. I don't think the design team sat down, asking themselves "How can we make Everquest more fun for everyone?", and came up with an integrated card game as the solution. That's would be a very strange design decision. More likely, the marketing team came up with this solution to make their existing games (EQ1/2) and player base more profitable, and generate interest for the stand-alone LoN client. If it makes EQ1/2 more enjoyable, it's at most a side effect. </blockquote>Really? You really don't think they want to make the game more fun? It seems to me this is mostly a way to add fun into the games with a side effect of making profit, since they are giving away starter packs and boosters are freely available ingame. Smed is rightly trying to add things to the game besides killing. I think this is long overdue, and an amazing addition to both games. I used to spend hours in a player-run tavern in UO, spending my downtime from a player-run militia playing chess against other players. It's expanding the feature-set of an already great game, I fail to see how that's a bad thing. As for the idea of breaking immersion, it's a fantasy roleplaying game in a world of magic. Is it so far-fetched to believe that you could play a darn game of cards? I guess the UI to play cards isn't as immersion-breaking as the UI for the paperdoll or the UI for the goblin games or the UI for the broker or...you get the idea. I find it immersion-breaking that all these heroes do all day is run quests and kill stuff without ever taking a break to play a simple game of cards.

[Cadori Seraphim]

As a former MtG player and current MMO player I find this to be very fascinating! I think its great that they are adding a little more to the game. For those people who keep complaining about this addition - don't play the card game.  If you are bothered by this so much then just log in to eq2 just like you always did and don't mess with the cards at all, its that simple. Stop trying to ruin the fun for everyone else by complaining about it. As for the person who mentioned Wizards suing SOE.. SO many card games that have been similar have come out since MtG and have been successful, each with their own unique twist on the whole card game idea. They would have sued other companies (and many of them at that) by now if they had a case. Besides I remember other card games before MtG, they just weren't as popular.

[Calthine]

Sidora@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote>For those people who keep complaining about this addition - don't play the card game.  If you are bothered by this so much then just log in to eq2 just like you always did and don't mess with the cards at all, its that simple. Stop trying to ruin the fun for everyone else by complaining about it. </blockquote>QFE!

[Ancalima]

Aquarius@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote>They may be willing to lessen the enjoyment of Everquest and have a few percent of players leaving, if they can make up for it in sales of booster packs, but they are unlikely to go through with it if they think they will lose, say, 30% or more of the players. That's why it's important we players protest when we think SoE has a really bad idea. They won't know it will hurt them financially, if we don't tell them. It's in SoE's best interests if their players tell them when something diminishes their enjoyment of the games. </blockquote>So you think 30% of the playerbase is going to leave because a fun, <i>optional</i> mini game is implemented?

[Calthine]

Ancalima@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Aquarius@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote>They may be willing to lessen the enjoyment of Everquest and have a few percent of players leaving, if they can make up for it in sales of booster packs, but they are unlikely to go through with it if they think they will lose, say, 30% or more of the players. That's why it's important we players protest when we think SoE has a really bad idea. They won't know it will hurt them financially, if we don't tell them. It's in SoE's best interests if their players tell them when something diminishes their enjoyment of the games. </blockquote>So you think 30% of the playerbase is going to leave because a fun, <i>optional</i> mini game is implemented? </blockquote> Optional and <i>ignorable</i>, even!

[dragontamer619]

<p>What I think will happen is people will sell looting rights for cards in game when they drop off a mob.  Kind of like how players spam the chat channels looking for certain pieces of gear.  </p><p>The only questions I have are:  Will the cards drop across all tiers?  I assume so.  What will the drop rate of the cards be in game?  If they drop that frequently wouldn't people just turn off their XP and farm the cards?  Is the rare card drop rate the same as pulling a rare from a pack when you buy it online?  What am I playing for?  I mean, if I win against an opponent what do I win?  Do I win more cards or just bragging rights that I beat you?  What are the rarity of the cards?  Will there be only one type of rare card in the whole 350 set?  I know the loot cards are rare, but how rare?  And will the /claim items be level restricted?</p><p>About game mechanics, how long will a match last?  If I am /LFG and choose to play a game, will a game run that long to where I actually have to choose to stay LFG or play the card game?  Also will there be a diconnect penalty?  Let's say you get card packs when you win.  If my opponent disconnects (leaves the game, or their net crashes), I am the default winner.  What is to stop a 2boxer from playing and pulling their internet connection to "disconnect" to win?  I know these are far fetched questions but they will come up.</p><p>Lastly, the only game I know of that had to change some cards was Yu-Gi-Oh.  Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro made Konami/Upperdeck change a Yu-Gi-Oh card category.  Yu-Gi-Oh had a "Magic" category card and it was changed to say "Spell" category cards.</p><p> I for one cannot wait to play Legends of Norrath.  I am not too worried about the beta testers having the better cards or more cards when the game comes out.  Everyone will catch up and no one will really care.  I apologize if I rambled on too long or if my questions are really out there.  I like my card games.  </p>

[Lilj]

Sidora@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote> For those people who keep complaining about this addition - don't play the card game.  If you are bothered by this so much then just log in to eq2 just like you always did and don't mess with the cards at all, its that simple. Stop trying to ruin the fun for everyone else by complaining about it. </blockquote>Hmm..let me rephrase this, just for fun <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> See below. <blockquote> For those people who keep complaining about plat buyers- don't buy plat.  If you are bothered by this so much then just log in to eq2 just like you always did and don't mess with the plat buyers at all, its that simple. Stop trying to ruin the fun for everyone else by complaining about it. </blockquote>The same arguments most of you guys use could also be used to argument for all servers being Exchange servers. I'm not saying that is what you are in fact saying, I'm just saying the same arguments could be used. If I want to buy plat, stop complaining about plat sellers and ruin my fun, dammit! Honestly, I'm not trying to ruin anyones fun, in fact as I have said before, I have nothing against the card game, it sounds like a neat idea. It's only the connection between in-game items and real money that bothers me. But SoE will never remove that connection, because that connection is what will give them the income (even if several people in this thread has said no-one is stupid enough to buy cards for a chance to get in-game items). SoE is exploring new ways to gain money (of course, it's a business, no harm in that), and they are in the process of moving their income from subscriptions to other ways. This card game is one to explore a new way. Station Exchange is another. Item-shops is perhaps a third? We don't know, but we do know that they are exploring new ways, and they want to move from subscription-income to 'other ways'-income. That indicates to me that I'm not overly paranoid when I think more powerful cards out in the future and perhaps even cards that can only be bought, not looted. To me it also indicates that perhaps SoE will play with the idea around item-shops in one way or another. We will see how it goes. I will say this again so no one thinks I am trying to ruin their fun, I don't mind the card game <i>per se.</i> It's the money connection.

[Devilsbane]

<cite>dragontamer619 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>What I think will happen is people will sell looting rights for cards in game when they drop off a mob.  Kind of like how players spam the chat channels looking for certain pieces of gear.  </p></blockquote>Impossible to sell the looting rights to any drop in EQ2. If you let the timer run out it is basically a game of "Who can click the chest faster". <img src="/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Nolrog]

<cite>retro_guy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>  Denver Post 8/11/2006</p> <p>Often overshadowed by the heavily marketed Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony console games, collectible trading cards have quietly developed into a solid moneymaking venture. While most online games earn $10 to $20 a month in player subscription fees, Martins said, a successful trading-card game can average more than $70 per month. </p></blockquote>Hmm, I don't like the sound of that, does that mean to participate in the card game our average monthly cost will need to go from $20 to $70+?? </blockquote><p> No.  You don't have to pay a dime if you don't want to.  Booster packs will drop in game from mobs (in treasure chests in EQ2) so you can build your whole card set, never paying anything for them.  Will take longer of course. </p>

[Calthine]

<cite>Nolrog wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>retro_guy wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hmm, I don't like the sound of that, does that mean to participate in the card game our average monthly cost will need to go from $20 to $70+?? </blockquote><p> No.  You don't have to pay a dime if you don't want to.  Booster packs will drop in game from mobs (in treasure chests in EQ2) so you can build your whole card set, never paying anything for them.  Will take longer of course. </p></blockquote> Correct.  Unless you choose to purchase decks or booster packs, your extra cash expenditure is zip, zero, nada, nuttin'.  There's no subscription fee for the LoN client, nor is our regular subscription changing because of this.

[Cadori Seraphim]

<cite>Liljna wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sidora@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote> For those people who keep complaining about this addition - don't play the card game.  If you are bothered by this so much then just log in to eq2 just like you always did and don't mess with the cards at all, its that simple. Stop trying to ruin the fun for everyone else by complaining about it. </blockquote>Hmm..let me rephrase this, just for fun <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> See below. <blockquote> For those people who keep complaining about plat buyers- don't buy plat.  If you are bothered by this so much then just log in to eq2 just like you always did and don't mess with the plat buyers at all, its that simple. Stop trying to ruin the fun for everyone else by complaining about it. </blockquote>The same arguments most of you guys use could also be used to argument for all servers being Exchange servers. I'm not saying that is what you are in fact saying, I'm just saying the same arguments could be used. If I want to buy plat, stop complaining about plat sellers and ruin my fun, dammit! Honestly, I'm not trying to ruin anyones fun, in fact as I have said before, I have nothing against the card game, it sounds like a neat idea. It's only the connection between in-game items and real money that bothers me. But SoE will never remove that connection, because that connection is what will give them the income (even if several people in this thread has said no-one is stupid enough to buy cards for a chance to get in-game items). SoE is exploring new ways to gain money (of course, it's a business, no harm in that), and they are in the process of moving their income from subscriptions to other ways. This card game is one to explore a new way. Station Exchange is another. Item-shops is perhaps a third? We don't know, but we do know that they are exploring new ways, and they want to move from subscription-income to 'other ways'-income. That indicates to me that I'm not overly paranoid when I think more powerful cards out in the future and perhaps even cards that can only be bought, not looted. To me it also indicates that perhaps SoE will play with the idea around item-shops in one way or another. We will see how it goes. I will say this again so no one thinks I am trying to ruin their fun, I don't mind the card game <i>per se.</i> It's the money connection. </blockquote>I respect your reply and your opinion in thinking what I said and what you said are the same, but they are not. SOE putting something in game, even if its to make a profit, is one thing and legal in terms of the EULA. Farmers who sell plat for personal gain is not legal and highly annoying to alot of people. Now with that said, I think SOE is doing what they can as far as preventing farmers (the plat farmers as there is a difference between normal farming for money and farming to sell plat for RL cash) from cashing in on this new idea. And from what I have read it looks promising, but I imagine no matter what they will find a way around it. I would much rather see an exchange implimented by SOE as far as this is concerned then by the plat sellers. It's just really frustrating when SOE adds something new, only to see people complain about it. It's like there is always someone who wants to complain no matter what it is.

[Polyneikes]

<a href="mailto:reSidora@Crushbone" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">reSidora@Crushbone</a> wrote: <blockquote><p>I respect your reply and your opinion in thinking what I said and what you said are the same, but they are not. SOE putting something in game, even if its to make a profit, is one thing and legal in terms of the EULA. Farmers who sell plat for personal gain is not legal and highly annoying to alot of people. Now with that said, I think SOE is doing what they can as far as preventing farmers (the plat farmers as there is a difference between normal farming for money and farming to sell plat for RL cash) from cashing in on this new idea. And from what I have read it looks promising, but I imagine no matter what they will find a way around it. I would much rather see an exchange implimented by SOE as far as this is concerned then by the plat sellers. It's just really frustrating when SOE adds something new, only to see people complain about it. It's like there is always someone who wants to complain no matter what it is.</p></blockquote><p>Of course using this way of turning RL money into plat is not against the EULA, but it still affects the players in the same way as the illegal plat sellers do: I can get an advantage over other players if I pay extra. <b>Liljna </b>really went to trouble to explain which part of the LON mechanics she did not like, and wasn't simply complaining just for the sake of it. </p><p>I fully agree with her complaint, as should anyone that has played a MMO game including an item shop. It is becoming an all too common way of making extra money off the players, but is never a benefit for the gamers, as you will instantly split the player base into those that are willing/able to spend extra dollars on gaming and those that aren't. Especially on the PVP servers this inequality will affect game enjoyment directly. </p><p>I for one really really hope SOE is not going down this path.</p>

[Ronin SpoilSpot]

Sidora@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote>It's just really frustrating when SOE adds something new, only to see people complain about it. It's like there is always someone who wants to complain no matter what it is. </blockquote>There probably is. However, if SOE added an item shop on a non-exchange server, I would complain, and I don't think that would be surprising to anybody. And that is what I think they <b>are</b> doing here: Loot cards buyable for real money. People here are, mostly, not complaining about the addition of the card game. It's the addition of real money-buyable in-game items. Sure, there's always someone complaining, but that doesn't mean that there isn't something to complain about this time. /RS

[Thornn]

<p>You want some cheese to go with your whine? Cry babies. They have a card I dont cuz they have a job and bought it. You want it, go earn it. Oh wait that means you might have to WORK. Go complain somewhere else. Looting rights? You think that does not happen now? With smart loot you can EoF gear a player in one weekend for a fee if your raid force has all their gear. So what. </p><p>I think the mini game is a great idea. If you do not like it, do not play it.</p>

[Bulvyne]

<p>Like so many others, I think the idea is very fascinating. I do not begrudge Sony trying to create new ways to make money off their games, especially when those ways are *optional* to the player base. If they were upping sub-fees so that they could implement the card game, then I could see getting really upset. But when it's a totally optional part of the game  that you'll never have to look at if you don't want to, and has no cost requirement to the uninterested fan, I see it as a win-win situation.</p><p>However, I do have the same concerns as Liljna when it comes to how plat-sellers/farmers will benefit from this. I would bet money (real life, not plat) that they will work very hard to find some way to exploit making money off this major addition to the game - that's just what plat sellers/farmers do. I just hope that SOE has really done their homework and will work diligently to make this system as loophole-free as possible, and not inadvertantly encouraging the plat sellers/farmers.</p><p>Just my 2 coppers.</p>

[Ookami-san]

<p>I too am very interested in what the advantages of playing will be.  What are the rewards?  I see a few possibilities:</p><p>1) No reward - lame and no encouragement for people to play</p><p>2) Titles - who cares</p><p>3) Cards - like other card games, you put a card up in the ante and winner takes all</p><p>4) Status - possibly an easy way to gain status - especially if you play against a guildy</p><p>5) In game Items - rewards those who play and those who pay (for more cards)</p><p>6) Out of game rewards - perhaps some type of tournament at the next Fan Faire?</p><p>Unless it's options 1,2 or 3, I see a real problem.  As someone else already mentioned... what's to prevent a multiboxer from playing against himself - that way he's always a winner and it's an easy way (if they implement #3) to get a card form one person to another.  OR... perhaps they don't care.  They certainly don't care about 6 boxers who run around with their badly named toons blasting everything in existance to farm plat.  I can't imagine them caring about someone exploiting the game for profit.</p><p>I'll be looking forward to this for the cards themselves and the rewards they grant... even if they're nothing spectacular, it'll be a little extra something to look forward to looting.</p>

[Polyneikes]

<cite>Thornnar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You want some cheese to go with your whine? Cry babies. They have a card I dont cuz they have a job and bought it. You want it, go earn it. Oh wait that means you might have to WORK. Go complain somewhere else. Looting rights? You think that does not happen now? With smart loot you can EoF gear a player in one weekend for a fee if your raid force has all their gear. So what. </p><p>I think the mini game is a great idea. If you do not like it, do not play it.</p></blockquote><p>I am really surprised how easily people accept this link between RL cash and ingame money, whilst at the same time there are such large copmlaints about plat buying and ebaying etc. Maybe I just misunderstood the community's loathing of plat buyers and character shoppers - <b>I</b> thought it was because a good player faces the challanges placed by the game, spends the time needed to achieve his goals and by doing so becomes a valuable member of our gaming community. </p><p>This might be a bit on the idealistic side, but that's how I would ideally want my gaming community to work. Now they add the first step to <i>a) improving your character using cash</i> and <i>b) trading cash for ingame plat </i>and everyone is d'accord. Makes me wonder <img src="/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[Leonai_art]

From my stance, I have a young child and don't get to get in-game very often, quite frankly - when I do get the time to hop in-game, 80-90% of that time is eaten up waiting for the patches to go through because I just plain don't have the time to keep up on them.  However, there are a lot of times at work when things are slow - particularly during the holiday season.  I could very much see myself playing the card game from work or on an at-home casual basis.  This sort of thing is so similar to the World of Warcraft cards and that was quite likely one of the smartest business decisions they made.  Who would have really truly thought how popular such a thing could be?  So we can say, "Hey, they did this great thing.  Now let's do it better!" I like it!  Since I don't get in game very often, I'll be one of those crazy people purchasing a booster back from the stores instead of having it as a loot-drop item, but then I'll be giving my money to SOE - a company that all of us know is not just interested in making a buck, but spends a lot of time dedicated to giving quality content and they even go out of their way to check at as many corners as possible to make sure that they're not getting too "married" to what they're doing, but asking the player base quite frequently what their opinions are.

[Calthine]

<cite>Polyneikes wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thornnar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You want some cheese to go with your whine? Cry babies. They have a card I dont cuz they have a job and bought it. You want it, go earn it. Oh wait that means you might have to WORK. Go complain somewhere else. Looting rights? You think that does not happen now? With smart loot you can EoF gear a player in one weekend for a fee if your raid force has all their gear. So what. </p><p>I think the mini game is a great idea. If you do not like it, do not play it.</p></blockquote><p>I am really surprised how easily people accept this link between RL cash and ingame money, whilst at the same time there are such large copmlaints about plat buying and ebaying etc. Maybe I just misunderstood the community's loathing of plat buyers and character shoppers - <b>I</b> thought it was because a good player faces the challanges placed by the game, spends the time needed to achieve his goals and by doing so becomes a valuable member of our gaming community. </p><p>This might be a bit on the idealistic side, but that's how I would ideally want my gaming community to work. Now they add the first step to <i>a) improving your character using cash</i> and <i>b) trading cash for ingame plat </i>and everyone is d'accord. Makes me wonder <img src="/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p></blockquote> For the 95,000th time...  spending money is OPTIONAL.

[Cadori Seraphim]

My issue with the complaints about this addition are the fact that the items gotten from these *loot cards* are not game/raid/group breaking. From the list that I have seen nothing is that intense that someone willing to shell out the RL cash for it will have such an advantage over the person not able to afford it. So this is why it baffles me that people are griping. So you don't get an armored warg mount.. or that cool looking cloak that you can use to turn yourself into *gasp* a box..  They are silly little items that dont do much and if people want to shell out RL cash for these items more power to them lol. And as already stated over and over again, shelling out this money is optional. Buying booster packs do NOT guarantee ( in any card game) that you will get the card(loot card or otherwise) that you WANT. So in all likelyness, someone can get a loot drop from in game shelling out 0 money before the person who spent say $50.00 on boosters. Edited for spelling <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> lol and I am willing to bet I missed some errors <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Ronin SpoilSpot]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote> For the 95,000th time...  spending money is OPTIONAL. </blockquote>And for the gazillionth time, <i>it doesn't matter </i>that spending money is optional! It matters that spending real money to gain in-game items is POSSIBLE! And through loot cards, it is. It is not the items themselves that are the biggest problem. I would love to see some of those items as quest rewards or veteran rewards. The problem is the principle of adding item selling for real money to the game, outside of exchange servers, at all. /RS

[Cadori Seraphim]

Times are changing, open your mind to change with it. Games have changed over the years to accomodate a changing market and this addition should not be a surprise to anyone playing MMO's. Trading RL money for something in game is not that far fetched, nor should it [Removed for Content] people off who already *pay to play*.  I remember long ago when the first pay to play came out, it wasnt unheard of to see/hear people griping about spending RL cash on something that wasnt *material*. This is no different.

[Vith]

<cite>Polyneikes wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I fully agree with her complaint, as should anyone that has played a MMO game including an item shop. It is becoming an all too common way of making extra money off the players, but is never a benefit for the gamers, as you will instantly split the player base into those that are willing/able to spend extra dollars on gaming and those that aren't. Especially on the PVP servers this inequality will affect game enjoyment directly. </p><p>I for one really really hope SOE is not going down this path.</p></blockquote>So you're ok with the split of players who don't have enough time to get items, but not the split of players who can afford to buy a few things? Just checking where your prejudices lie. Time = money, I hope you realize.

[Lithran]

Sony is a company. As such they are out to make money. Plain and simple. You folks look at this like a personal game and that if something offends your senses it should not be included into the game. That's like the story a while back here in my town about a local strippers club raising money for a local kids hospital. The group would not take it because it was a strip club. Well, those who raised the money said it was not fair that the money would not be taken since it was the ladies (who by the way are mothers) and they wanted to help the Hospital since they had at one time gotten help from them with their own kids needing to go there. In this case, who are you to deny this company a way to make money and stay ahead and afloat? This company does not run on wishes but money. Money leaves, so does this good game. So if they want to add something that is <u><i><b>NOT</b></i></u> required to purchase, but can be if you want it that much I am all for it. This way EQ2 can be here for awhile longer. If you don't like any of these fluff items ignore it. When a deck drops in your group. Pass on the loot. That way I can get it. Simple enough. This is not a make a break item in game. it's a fluff item. they look nice. The recast on some of these items is just so long it's not worth drooling on.

[Grimwell]

Hey now, hey now! Let's all play nice!!! The best place to discuss the ramifications of LoN are in the LoN forums where you can talk with everyone about it, including the EQ folks! let's stay happy and excited in this thread and stick to being nice to each other.

[Andok]

Ancalima@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Aquarius@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote>They may be willing to lessen the enjoyment of Everquest and have a few percent of players leaving, if they can make up for it in sales of booster packs, but they are unlikely to go through with it if they think they will lose, say, 30% or more of the players. That's why it's important we players protest when we think SoE has a really bad idea. They won't know it will hurt them financially, if we don't tell them. It's in SoE's best interests if their players tell them when something diminishes their enjoyment of the games. </blockquote>So you think 30% of the playerbase is going to leave because a fun, <i>optional</i> mini game is implemented? </blockquote> I think that Aquarius’ estimate of 30% is too high, but I am sure that a lot of people will leave the game when (not if) this is implemented.  That’s just the nature of change.  However, I am certain that the loss of revenue from people quitting will be more than made up for with revenue generated from the card game.  In addition, the addition of the card game will attract a lot of new players to the game.  For me and the majority of players, this is a win / win proposition, and the only losers are those who quit out of ‘principle’ because players can use real money to buy an item that can turn you into a box.

[Krymson]

As a game, I certainly want to play LoN.  Does the fact that spending real money for cards and thus potential in-game items give me the willies?  Just a bit.  However, until I better understand how frequently these packs/decks drop in-game, then I might just be worried about nothing.  I mean, if these things drop with the frequency of wooden chests, then hoo-[Removed for Content]-rah, if someone wants to cough up 3 bucks for something that takes me less than 15 minutes in-game to farm 3 of, more power to 'em.  If, however, these chest drops are rare (and I'm talking fabled chest rare), then I might grab my giant placards and strap them onto my shoulders awhile because that would move it from a fun little extra game into the realm of Wuoshi-slaying reetness.

[Ronin SpoilSpot]

Sidora@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote>Times are changing, open your mind to change with it. Games have changed over the years to accomodate a changing market and this addition should not be a surprise to anyone playing MMO's. Trading RL money for something in game is not that far fetched, nor should it [Removed for Content] people off who already *pay to play*.  I remember long ago when the first pay to play came out, it wasnt unheard of to see/hear people griping about spending RL cash on something that wasnt *material*. This is no different. </blockquote>I'm not surprised at the idea. There are plenty of games comming out these days that try different approaches to earning income. And I fully understand SOE wanting to get all the money they possibly can from willing buyers. Who wouldn't? There is, however, a significant difference between paying a fixed amount to play a game and allowing people to buy extras for more money. It's a difference in kind, not just in degree. With the flat rate, everybody are equal once their $15(+VAT) is paid. Real life money is not what makes one player better than another. People will not expect you to pay more to be able to play with the big guys. Sure, people are still different, some have more time than others, but spending less time over a longer time will still allow you to get to the goals. Real life wealth, or lack thereof, is not a n issue. When you can buy items for money, real life financial constraints suddently become important in-game. It introduces social barriers between players that weren't there before . We already have raiders and non-raiders. We don't want a split into poor raiders and wealthy raiders too, w here being in the top raiding guilds require you t o spend a significant amount of money on buyable e quipment. Real money buying can, and eventually wi ll, do that. Maybe not with the items currently av ailable, but SOE won't stop there. I don't know exactly which arguments SOE has against RMT in EQ2. I had hoped that it was because buying plat threatens this equality, and they didn't want that. If SOE opens the door to RMT, in this case itemst for real money, I can no longer see any moral arguments against buying and selling plat. I still see a argument against spamming, though <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I think the thing that bugs me the most is not that SOE introduces item selling, although I am opposed to that (for what that's worth, I know it won't stop a business plan), but that they are not open about it. If they came out and said "yes, we introduce item buying in EQ and EQ2 as an extra incentive to buy LoN cards", then I would still think it was a bad idea, but I would not feel that they tried to sneak it into the game disguise d as something harmless. /RS

[Almeric_CoS]

<p>There's nothing about any of the card rewards that will make you a better player <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   The illusions sure won't help.  Falling slower or enduring breath are trivial at best, especially considering that those effects are pretty easy to get elsewhere.  From the Q&A at the Fan Faire, the really nice items like the speedy mounts are likely to only be given as tournament prizes.</p><p>And that bring us to a VERY IMPORTANT POINT:</p><p>As a former poor college student who played CCGs on highly-limited funds, you can't buy your way to mastery of a card game!!!!  Sure, having more spiffy rare cards helps, but if you're no good at strategizing, you're still going to lose most matches against smarter, more capable players.  People who are both very skilled AND have money to burn are going to be dangerous, but never unbeatable.</p><p>Of course, "never unbeatable" depends on game design as well, but since there's a lot of CCG experience on the LoN team, I'm sure they've designed their game intelligently.</p><p>And finally, it's really against SOE's every interest to make a "money = win" game, because the limited-funds players will get sick of always being a floormat and stop playing.  Duh.</p>

[ZeroRavesOn]

I was thinking about what these things backs might act like in game, so I took a little trip to the Bad People website to look up their exchange rates.  Assuming that their rate is a fair market exchange rate, then each of these packs works out to be about 2p 72g of in-game currency.  I;ve seen both that unopened in game packs would be or wouldn't be tradable, so lets assume they will be.  I remember reading somewhere that not all packs would have loot cards in them, and that it would be something like 1-in-6, or 1-in-8, or something like that. Now taking the low end of that, thats 16p 44g of in-game money for **A** piece of loot, not even a specific one you may want.  Now, assuming that all of the in-game loot is listed on the Legends of Norrath website, thats a 1-in-26 chance of getting any particular piece of loot. So, on average thats about 427p 44g (or $468 US) for any **particular** piece of loot, assuming there aren't more unlisted pieces of in-game loot to clog up the loot cards and that the chances for a loot cards aren't lower than 1-in-6.  I can't imagine anyone paying that much for a particular piece of loot, with the possible exception of the mana recharge thing.  But even that will likely be changed to out of combat only, to match the already existing Sealed Book of Knowledge. I see this just being a fun (and free) minigame that can be a way to kill downtime, or play something with friends on other servers.  The sky doesn't seem to be falling; the revolution won't be televised.

[Calthine]

<cite>ZeroRavesOn wrote:</cite><blockquote> The sky doesn't seem to be falling; the revolution won't be televised. </blockquote> No Vogons over Norrath?  Aw.  <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[FalseCourage]

So, I maybe completely blind or I may not have had enough coffee this morning, but... Are these cards going to be physical cards that we can go to a store and pick up or are they only going to exist in a 'digital' sense? I am hoping that this game does in fact have physical cards, because I can see it now... BYOC card tournaments. :'(

[Coniaric]

<p>From what I see so far ... it's all digital.</p><p>So, I don't think going to a store out there will get the card packs, only the online store.</p>

[Calthine]

No physical cards, it's all virtual.  So far.

[Cadori Seraphim]

Off Topic! Something in this thread has made me scroll horizontally REALLY bad <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[einar4]

<cite>Grimwell wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey now, hey now! Let's all play nice!!! The best place to discuss the ramifications of LoN are in the LoN forums where you can talk with everyone about it, including the EQ folks! let's stay happy and excited in this thread and stick to being nice to each other. </blockquote><p>  I didn't really notice anyone being that offensive or attacking each other prior to your remarks.  The discussion was lively but did not contain offensive remarks, hate speech, or personal attacks that I could see.  Be careful of becoming defensive too quickly, anyone in a creative position is going to have to deal with negative feedback. </p><p> From the POV of someone that has moderated discussion forums and newsgroups, I am beginning to wonder if perhaps you are getting a bit too draconian and quick on the trigger in your judgement of what is inappropriate or a "Flame."   Open discussion should be welcome, unless you would rather people just not give opinions or feedback beyond the "Way to go, you guys all rock" threads.    That just seems like it would get a little insipid if that was all you allowed. </p><p>Please remember that people who come here have the best interests of the game and their own enjoyment at heart.  If not, they would not bother to waste their time visiting this web site and these forums. </p><p> "...let's stay happy and excited..." as a statement to stifle commentary is, sadly, uncomfortably close to something out of "1984" or "Brave New World." </p>

[Calthine]

/invokes Godwin's Law

[Coniaric]

<cite>einar438 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Grimwell wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey now, hey now! Let's all play nice!!! The best place to discuss the ramifications of LoN are in the LoN forums where you can talk with everyone about it, including the EQ folks! let's stay happy and excited in this thread and stick to being nice to each other. </blockquote><p>  I didn't really notice anyone being that offensive or attacking each other prior to your remarks.  The discussion was lively but did not contain offensive remarks, hate speech, or personal attacks that I could see.  Be careful of becoming defensive too quickly, anyone in a creative position is going to have to deal with negative feedback. </p><p> From the POV of someone that has moderated discussion forums and newsgroups, I am beginning to wonder if perhaps you are getting a bit too draconian and quick on the trigger in your judgement of what is inappropriate or a "Flame."   Open discussion should be welcome, unless you would rather people just not give opinions or feedback beyond the "Way to go, you guys all rock" threads.    That just seems like it would get a little insipid if that was all you allowed. </p><p>Please remember that people who come here have the best interests of the game and their own enjoyment at heart.  If not, they would not bother to waste their time visiting this web site and these forums. </p><p> "...let's stay happy and excited..." as a statement to stifle commentary is, sadly, uncomfortably close to something out of "1984" or "Brave New World."</p></blockquote><p>I had noticed things getting close to being defensive, but it is fortunate it's not reduced to flames or overall offensive.</p><p>But there is a forum for LoN now so some questions that had been brought up here could be answered over there (as Grimwell stated).</p><p>As for money connection ... it's basically all online store, not in game. As for chest loot, it may be reasonable at this time that it'll be treasured and thus, about 5 minutes of decay time. Other comments were already mentioned few times in earlier posts so I won't say it again.</p><p>But all there are are assumptions in regard to in-game drops. My opinion - nothing is tradable except in LoN client.</p>

[ke'la]

<cite>Polyneikes wrote:</cite><blockquote><a href="mailto:reSidora@Crushbone" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">reSidora@Crushbone</a> wrote: <blockquote><p>I respect your reply and your opinion in thinking what I said and what you said are the same, but they are not. SOE putting something in game, even if its to make a profit, is one thing and legal in terms of the EULA. Farmers who sell plat for personal gain is not legal and highly annoying to alot of people. Now with that said, I think SOE is doing what they can as far as preventing farmers (the plat farmers as there is a difference between normal farming for money and farming to sell plat for RL cash) from cashing in on this new idea. And from what I have read it looks promising, but I imagine no matter what they will find a way around it. I would much rather see an exchange implimented by SOE as far as this is concerned then by the plat sellers. It's just really frustrating when SOE adds something new, only to see people complain about it. It's like there is always someone who wants to complain no matter what it is.</p></blockquote><p>Of course using this way of turning RL money into plat is not against the EULA, but it still affects the players in the same way as the illegal plat sellers do: I can get an advantage over other players if I pay extra. <b>Liljna </b>really went to trouble to explain which part of the LON mechanics she did not like, and wasn't simply complaining just for the sake of it. </p><p><span style="color: #3300ff">Ok I guess I am an Idiot, explain to me how being able to trade cards in a game that is COMPELTLY OUTSIDE the EQ2 game, going to make buying plat any easier to do, or hide? I mean form what the EQ2 people will see is a player reseaving 50pp from a caractor named Adsliehe, while the LoN will see someone giving a card to another person as these too ARE NOT LINKED the 50pp transfer will look just as supisous as it does now. As for advantages you get spending 100s of dollars(thats right HUNDEREDS) to buy instead of loot booster packs, well they are negligable at BEST I mean 5% more runspeed over the current fastest mount(wich will get faster in RoK) or a 50%xp potion when your already lvl capped? yeah thats worth hundreds of dollars. Especally when you can spend ZERO dollars and have the same chance at them.</span></p><p>I fully agree with her complaint, as should anyone that has played a MMO game including an item shop. It is becoming an all too common way of making extra money off the players, but is never a benefit for the gamers, as you will instantly split the player base into those that are willing/able to spend extra dollars on gaming and those that aren't. Especially on the PVP servers this inequality will affect game enjoyment directly. </p><p>I for one really really hope SOE is not going down this path.</p></blockquote>

[ke'la]

Ronin SpoilSpot wrote: <blockquote>Sidora@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote>It's just really frustrating when SOE adds something new, only to see people complain about it. It's like there is always someone who wants to complain no matter what it is. </blockquote><p>There probably is. However, if SOE added an item shop on a non-exchange server, I would complain, and I don't think that would be surprising to anybody. And that is what I think they <b>are</b> doing here: Loot cards buyable for real money. People here are, mostly, not complaining about the addition of the card game. It's the addition of real money-buyable in-game items. </p><p><span style="color: #3300cc">First off you don't have to spend a dime to get the same cards, secondly have you ever accually tryed to get a rare card from any type of card collection? If not I'll explain how it works first you have to buy around 8 packs of cards(chances of getting ANY loot card is 1 in <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> then you have to PREY that the card in the pack is not one of the "commin rares" that you already have 10 of, if your very lucky it accually turns out to be one of the Semi-Rare ones and you get one of those cool fluff robes, if not you get yet another XP Potion and you now have to buy ~8 more packs. You see if you where to accually buy enough packs to accually get what you want you would have to spend hundreds of dollars to get them, and consitering that you can get tokens for the exsact same packs in game for Free, how many people do you really think are going to spend Hundereds of dollars for a chance at a mount that is 5% fast then current mounts.</span> Sure, there's always someone complaining, but that doesn't mean that there isn't something to complain about this time. /RS </p></blockquote>

[Polyneikes]

ke'la wrote: <blockquote><p>Ok I guess I am an Idiot, explain to me how being able to trade cards in a game that is COMPELTLY OUTSIDE the EQ2 game, going to make buying plat any easier to do, or hide?</p></blockquote><p>Gladly:</p><p>1) buy a card pack using RL cash</p><p>2) open a LON session with another player on your server and trade him your pack</p><p>3) close LON session and receive plat from said player</p>

[ke'la]

<cite>Polyneikes wrote:</cite><blockquote>ke'la wrote: <blockquote><p>Ok I guess I am an Idiot, explain to me how being able to trade cards in a game that is COMPELTLY OUTSIDE the EQ2 game, going to make buying plat any easier to do, or hide?</p></blockquote><p>Gladly:</p><p>1) buy a card pack using RL cash</p><p><span style="color: #3300ff">You can only buy card packs in the LoN client, and you open it apon purchous, therefor you can't trade the pack</span></p><p>2) open a LON session with another player on your server and trade him your pack</p><p><span style="color: #3300ff">Shure you can trade him cards but again this is in the LoN Client and has no Traces in the EQ2 client. Therefor, as far as the LoN devs see your just giving a card away</span></p><p>3) close LON session and receive plat from said player</p><p><span style="color: #3300ff">And now your reseaving plat without an giving anything in return wich I am shure flags the transaction for the devs to review, and being that Smed has already said you can't trade the CARDS(see answer to number 1) in EQ2. You have just violated the EULA by working around the proibition of trading cards for in game coin.</span></p></blockquote>So I guess your right a player of LoN may give you plat for an Uber card you LUCKED into getting from a bought pack, again you would have to spend ALOT of cash to get a card someone would be willing to pay for consitering anyone with enough Plat to buy a card(thats not a plat seller) for Plat has probly already looted enough packs to get the cards he wants, while farming the Plat in the first place, and as there is no trace of the "Card Trade" in EQ2 there is no evidance that would give you any kind of protection if it was an accual RMT.