Explanation please?

[Buggrit]

Been away for a while Ok im going to duo with a friend and im thinking about making an sk or berserker to duo with his fury/inquisitor but here is my question Why do people say sk's are so weak what happened to them? do they not have enough mitigation or agro ability? I have always liked the sk/pally knight class basically but im disheartened I get told you will do fine until 50 then its all down hill everyone i speak to says if you want to make a sk/fury duo your better of letting the fury tank since sk's have been nerfed into oblivion aswell as paladins as a tank class they say sk's don't have a raid spot anymore for anyone who is serious about raiding etc So can someone explain what the problem with sk's is?

[Beldin_]

<p>There is no problem with the SKs .. they are a great class and fun to play, the only problem are players who don't realize that we are more casters then melee and run around with under 100 int and don't know that we have to deal damage to hold aggro <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>And you will have more problem under 50 and not after .. because we get our best spells with 55/58 <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Wildmage]

the general problem is that elitist mindsets always creep into MMOs theres always this subset of people who obsess about the "perfect" or "ulitimate" setup in AP, group roster, raid roster, etc. and once they feel like they have determined that "perfect" set up. they become the most rigid, hidebound inflexible people when it comes to anyone suggestion any alternative to their "perfect" set up.  Shadowknights have fallen victim to this group of players badmouthing them same group of people who have been badmouthing Shadowknights since EQ1 days. The Sk's are able to tank the vast majority of gaming content just fine, their ability to hold aggro is just fine its slightly slower than some classes maybe. We get an Point blank AOE Lifetap max of 8 targets and very decent damage at 55, then at 58 we get Death march its gravy.  So no their not worthless past 50 if anything they like most classes get much stronger in the 50s w/ ancient teaching spells.  now as far as raiding...ehh make some real friends and not try to get into one of the "leet" raiding guilds who only have 24 members and you will be fine for raiding.

[Antryg Mistrose]

The problem with SKs is they are a hybrid class that can't do any one thing as well as more specialised classes.  For what you describe they are fine, but for end game content - rading/hard instances they had a brief boost with the release of the EoF expansion a few months ago, but are now back firmly in the doghouse.  We still have some nice tricks, including the ones above, Fake death and Evac, but the stigma has some real truth to it.  I can't think of a class that is less desired on a raid now - paladin perhaps?

[nirate]

<p>We actualy have been using a pally ever since they normalized all tank def stances to 15% mit</p><p>and since the agro nerfs, pallys are one of the best tanks to actualy hold agro because of amends</p>

[Beldin_]

<cite>nirate wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>We actualy have been using a pally ever since they normalized all tank def stances to 15% mit</p><p>and since the agro nerfs, pallys are one of the best tanks to actualy hold agro because of amends</p></blockquote> Yeah .. the Pally can be afk .. only the amends target not .. i pulled aggro from a pally 2 days ago with my warden, because his target was afk <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<p>1) Why do people say sk's are so weak what happened to them? </p><p>Basically, the crusader classes can be a little tough to master, and they come into their own a bit late. This leads to a lot of people testing them out and handling them poorly, not seeing their potential, and basically encouraging that kind of nonsense talk.</p><p>2) do they not have enough mitigation or agro ability? </p><p>With AAs and situational temp buffs, SKs have the potential to have the *most* mitigation of the tank classes. SKs have pretty much the best snap aggro in game, their overall aggro control is good. 3) I get told you will do fine until 50 then its all down hill</p><p>Way off base. It's quite the opposite I find. Some of the best SK abilities only come after lvl 55. SKs come into their own late and only get stronger.</p><p> 4) everyone i speak to says if you want to make a sk/fury duo your better of letting the fury tank since sk's have been nerfed into oblivion aswell as paladins as a tank class they say sk's don't have a raid spot anymore for anyone who is serious about raiding etc</p><p>Ridiculous comments lol. Dismiss them out of hand. 5) So can someone explain what the problem with sk's is?</p><p>Not me, haven't found one yet....</p>

[Phalong]

<cite>Buggrit wrote:</cite><blockquote>Been away for a while Ok im going to duo with a friend and im thinking about making an sk or berserker to duo with his fury/inquisitor but here is my question Why do people say sk's are so weak what happened to them? do they not have enough mitigation or agro ability? I have always liked the sk/pally knight class basically but im disheartened I get told you will do fine until 50 then its all down hill everyone i speak to says if you want to make a sk/fury duo your better of letting the fury tank since sk's have been nerfed into oblivion aswell as paladins as a tank class they say sk's don't have a raid spot anymore for anyone who is serious about raiding etc So can someone explain what the problem with sk's is? </blockquote><p> I hold a slightly different opinion then Chimp, although we do agree on many things.</p><p>1.) for group situations, it may be difficult to find a better tank then a Shadow Knight.  Their mitigation isnt too bad, their avoidance is going to be based on gear.  Agro can be adjusted by going down the STR/Hate lines for SK's.  Other classes can sometimes do better with agro, but if you know how to play the class, you shouldnt have a problem.</p><p>2.) After level 50, things get a lot better for grouping situations.  And many times Ive been picked to tank over a guardian or berserker in a group.  Gear and ability will truly make or break the tank.  When Im looking for a tank to do unrest for my assassin, and no other guild tank is avilible, I dont just pull any random tank.  I require that they ahve at least 8k unbuffed HP as well as good mitigation, anything over 52% unbuffed.  Not to mention I check with the guild and other group members to see if anyone has had them tank before.  Because although gear does make the tank, 3/4 of the tanks ability will be in knowing his class and how to play as well as knowldge of the zone.</p><p>3.) Druids have a difficult time healing Shadow Knights and Paladins.  Consider how they heal and how we take damage.  Youll find that clerics and shamans have an easier time healing Crusaders.  Raiding is difficult.  Most guilds will prefer a Guardian or Berserker to tank.  If they arent availible or have craptastic gear, a Paladin will tank.  In rare instances, the ShadowKnight will tank.  If you know your role, and can accept not raid tanking, youll be fine.</p><p>4.) umm.  yeah.  view above.  Theyve nerfed our tanking abilities with agro control, mitigation, avoidance, and our latest strength buff nerf with a lack in power pool.</p>

[Buggrit]

Thanks for the replys all im defo going to make a sk should be fun but my friend has made a fury hopefully it shouldn't be that bad of a duo Ive read you hold agro though spells so should i go down the Int or Str line? which would be more effective? Are you basically like a Bruiser/monk hold agro through dps with spells instead of melee or? What do you do to hold agro when you MT in a Instance  Normal/heroic etc?

[Norrsken]

<cite>Buggrit wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thanks for the replys all im defo going to make a sk should be fun but my friend has made a fury hopefully it shouldn't be that bad of a duo Ive read you hold agro though spells so should i go down the Int or Str line? which would be more effective? Are you basically like a Bruiser/monk hold agro through dps with spells instead of melee or? What do you do to hold agro when you MT in a Instance  Normal/heroic etc? </blockquote>we hold aggro with damage and healing. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and of course our meager taunts. 4 4 8 in int is a sure bet, and most sks seem to do the str line as well.

[Iwice]

So can someone explain what the problem with sk's is? THe problem (if there is one) is taht we are misunderstood, acctualy one of the better tanks in the game, ut we are difrent, and misundestood so ppl dont understand our power

[Coica]

Ask anyone in my guild and Im sure they will tell you Coica can tank with the best of them.  as many have posted,we are misunderstood,etc.  learn the class, get your master spells lined up, get some decent gear and define what role you want to play and you can  change peoples minds real quick.  finally playing some alts so i get to play with other tanks as MT and wow, some people really dont know how to tank very good.  regarding the nerf, it sucks, just have to stay on top of my game even more now.We are still a viable,usefull,fun class.

[Beldin_]

<cite>Buggrit wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thanks for the replys all im defo going to make a sk should be fun but my friend has made a fury hopefully it shouldn't be that bad of a duo </blockquote><p>Fury/SK is a really great duo since fury buffs INT for us, and also can do some nice damage. You may take a little bit harder mobs maybe with for example a warden, but generally with a fury you will killing mobs faster. No need to worry .. that duo will work fine <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[Dead Knight]

Not necessarily, I know a melee specced warden that parses 1k flat constantly.