Scream of Frustration

[Aradia]

That should be the new coercer spell. Trying to seek a little clarity in my role in a raid.  5 respec's are not gonna be enough.  This is a tricky class to manage anyway, why does it have to be this hard? Why does our class have to rely on proc gear to do any decent damage?  Doesn't that seem a bit silly to anyone else? I'm so upset and confused I think this may be the straw that breaks it for me unless someone can show me the light.  Please please someone out there... can anyone answer these questions... Where are we best utilized in a raid? What AA's are best to support this role? What group setup is ideal for us to be the most useful on a raid? I get the distinct feeling that the dev's don't know what to do with us either.

[Korpo]

<cite>Aradia wrote:</cite><blockquote>That should be the new coercer spell. Trying to seek a little clarity in my role in a raid.  5 respec's are not gonna be enough.  This is a tricky class to manage anyway, why does it have to be this hard? <p><span style="color: #ff0000">Don't make it hard. The "wrong" AA spec won't turn a good player into a bad one, and the "right" AA spec won't turn a bad player into a good one. No AA spec will make or break any class, and people that think the ideal spec is all that's standing between them and their goal of being Superman are kidding themselves. </span> Why does our class have to rely on proc gear to do any decent damage?  Doesn't that seem a bit silly to anyone else?</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">Because coercers aren't a DPS class. They <i>can</i> DPS, but they aren't <i>designed around</i> doing DPS like a sorc or pred is. Sorcs get 5k nukes because that's all they do is nuke. Chanters get 1k nukes because they can also mez, stun, stifle, daze, root, regen, and buff better than a sorc. No amount of gear will put you near the sorcs and preds if they're not sleeping at the wheel, so just do what you can within the limits of your class--DPS is not the only measure of how useful someone is.</span> Where are we best utilized in a raid? </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">Depends on your raid setup. Some raids put the coercer in the MT group for power regen, healer crits, hate buff, Coercive Healing, etc. Some raids put the coercer with all the scouts for the DPS buff and power regen.</span> </p><p>What AA's are best to support this role? </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">For a MT spec, I generally go with STA/AGI, Coercive Healing, Tash, and some in the power line to boost Flow, Transfer, and Thoughts. For a scout group spec, AGI/INT is a better bet, and however you want to spend your coercer AAs.</span> </p><p>What group setup is ideal for us to be the most useful on a raid?</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">Again, it depends on what your raid needs. If your tank has no problem holding agro, your healers are bored healing your tank, and nobody is running out of power, then you are better off in the scout group so you can load them up with DPS and give them some regen. If your tank is having a rough time of it, you can bring a lot to the MT group.</span> I get the distinct feeling that the dev's don't know what to do with us either. </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">No, it's that many coercers seem to think that just because they made a coercer, they're should automatically be required wherever they want to be required. There aren't many classes that are required on raids these days, everybody has to earn their spot. You earn your spot by knowing what you're doing, not by who you pick when you create a character.</span></p></blockquote>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

Korpo has it right. We basically have two raid positions: MT/OT group or Scout DPS group. Anything else is underutilizing our abilities. Our "roles" are pretty much a mix of the following: - Power Regen - Hate Increase - Hate Decrease - Aggro locking - Healer buffing - Mid range DPS, debuffs - Crowd Control Now, some of these roles require certain AA choices, and require being in specific groups. Others can be done regardless of AA's and regardless of group position. Many of them interact with each other, especially with the recent changes. Power Regen is pretty universal, and we fulfill it very well without having to go into any AA's. If, for some crazy reason, your master spells (or even adept 3s) aren't enough, there's even AA's to help boost this. Enhance: Channel might be a more overall useful bonus, which can be obtained from the Coercive AA line offshot. DPS pretty much requires specific AA specs, like Agi/Int and Ceorcive line. Good news is, Agi helps cast all spells faster so it can help your crowd control, and Coercive's final helps at least one Healer in your group. Aggro control has a lot going for it these days. Baseline, without AA's, we have a hate decrease cross raid, and a no-concentration hate buff/transfer to one fighter. Many things help with hate transfer, including Agi/Int lines for DPS, Agi line for casting all spells faster, crowd control line in EoF AA's since crowd control does a LOT of hate, Wisdom line gives +subjugation to land crowd control which gives hate, etc. The Stamina line gives a single target detaunt ability, a groupwide threat % reduction, and a final that lowers a person's hate position kinda like a reverse Rescue. Finally, the Control line gives a great final, Thoughtsnap, forcing a group to target a tank in your group. Nice to alternate with the Stamina final for controlling/handling memwipes or lost aggro. Heal bonuses only come in two flavours, the Stamina line's group heal crit % chance, and the Coercive Healing. Debuffs-wise we have the one line in EoF that increases our spell resistances. You might not think of it much, but it's a fairly large, maintainable on multiple mobs spell resistance debuff, so it's very good to toss in along with your normal spell routine. Not as devastating as say a Brigand's, but it's right behind them otherwise (no physical debuff tho). So basically find out the role you are most needed on your raids, and tweak your AA's and casting routine with them in mind. A MT position, with hate transfer and aggro control focused would probably want Sta/Wis and Control/Coercive lines. This leaves points for Channel still too (only needs 8 points to get full Channel bonuses). A Scout group role would probably want Agi/Int or Agi/Sta depending on how much aggro control you want to keep vs dps you want to do. Coercive line doesn't NEED the end ability, so it may or may not free up a few points since you don't need to invest in Harmonious Link (won't have slots anyways, buffing DPS). Which allows you some points for Resistances and Ego Shock/Sonic Boom upgrades. Basically what it boils down to is that you have many different abilities to provide a raid, and most AA lines have something to offer to help those roles. About the only things that aren't utterly useful to you is the Strength line AA's.. and even then, it can be decent DPS if you don't have any Proc gear yet, and if the Counter ability works on epics it could give a different kind of utility. Your best bet is to explain to your raid leader(s) the roles you can fulfill above, and find out which roles they want to use you with. It helps a LOT if you are in a stable raid situation, so you can spec completely towards the one goal. Otherwise, you may want to look at a mixed role/AA setup because you don't know if you are going to be in the MT group or Scout group or needing DPS or Aggro Control. If that's the case, then the Stamina line helps multiple roles, along with the Agi line. Stamina gives you some heal crits and deaggros. Agi line helps with DPS and getting more crowd control in, which also increases your hate (for hate transfer). Then the Coercive line in EoF gives DPS, deaggro, and a healer buff. The Control line gives a boost to your control spells, the Thoughtsnap ability, and improves the reuse for your two big nukes. This would probably give the most well rounded benefits for the two positions you'd be in (scout dps or mt/ot buffer role).

[Encantador]

<p>I completely agree with the previous 2 posters. Coercers are good in all the melee heavy groups.</p><p>Our AA choices aren't brilliant but unless you do something very strange will not break you for raiding.</p><p>Amongst the coercer AA, the ones boosting Spell Scourge and Auspex are pretty much must haves. For me the stuns boosts [including Sonic Boom] are must haves. These lead to Thought Snap which is a raid saver once or twice a month. If you are the only raiding coercer in your guild then this is the one end ability you should get. For the rest pick what you think needs boosting most.</p><p>Tailoring a coercer to a particular guild raid set up makes even little used AA useful. Your guild has you, plus 1 dirge and no troubs? Put points into STA line and Harmonious Link. On the other hand no dirges? Put points into power regen. Guild has a main coercer and a couple of Illusionists? Go for Tashania (and remember to make a hot key to announce its casting).</p><p>There is no one size fits all best build for a coercer.</p><p>[Edited: because I missed a complete sentence out about stuns. Thanks Kat for pointing it was wrong.]</p>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

The Scourge/Auspex ones lead to Coercive Healing. The Crowd Control line has Thoughtsnap...

[Rarlin]

<cite>Korpo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aradia wrote:</cite><blockquote> I get the distinct feeling that the dev's don't know what to do with us either. <p><span style="color: #ff0000">No, it's that many coercers seem to think that just because they made a coercer, they're should automatically be required wherever they want to be required. There aren't many classes that are required on raids these days, everybody has to earn their spot. You earn your spot by knowing what you're doing, not by who you pick when you create a character.</span></p></blockquote> </blockquote> Amen <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Aradia]

<p><span style="color: #ff0000">There aren't many classes that are required on raids these days, everybody has to earn their spot. You earn your spot by knowing what you're doing, not by who you pick when you create a character.</span></p>I would like to be required anywhere. So, we've got 24 awesome players and they're all mystics.  We should be able to raid anything then right? I would really like to feel needed. Korpo, where are you positioned in your raid?  What makes you right for that spot? <p><span style="color: #ff0000"> </span></p>

[Korpo]

<cite>Aradia wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000">There aren't many classes that are required on raids these days, everybody has to earn their spot. You earn your spot by knowing what you're doing, not by who you pick when you create a character.</span></p>I would like to be required anywhere. So, we've got 24 awesome players and they're all mystics.  We should be able to raid anything then right? I would really like to feel needed. Korpo, where are you positioned in your raid?  What makes you right for that spot? </blockquote>You missed the point of the line. You will <i>never</i> be <i>required</i> anywhere. Just like a raid doesn't require a wizard, or a warlock, or a ranger, or an assassin, or a swashbuckler, or a brigand, or a troubadour, or a templar, or an inquisitor, or a paladin, or a shadowknight, or an illusionist, or a berserker... As I said, just because you're a coercer doesn't mean you should be "required anywhere". You can make yourself desirable by showing that you know what you're doing, kicking out decent DPS for your class, being fast with the power feeds, controlling mobs, etc. Again, you have to earn your spot by making yourself valuable, not be given a spot because you want one. There's a big difference. I don't raid (much) anymore because my work schedule doesn't really allow it. When I did, I was usually in the scout group to boost the DPS of everyone around me. Certain fights that had certain requirements would get me moved to the MT group. For example: power regen was great for fights like Mayong and Matron, so I'd be with the MT.

[Lleinen]

<p>Where are we best utilized in a raid? MT / OT Group What AA's are best to support this role? Mana Cloak Line Thought Snap Line or Coercive Healing Line AGI / INT What group setup is ideal for us to be the most useful on a raid? MT Temp Def Swash Coerc Dirge OT Temp Myst Dirge Coerc melee-DPS </p><p>Bone Clasped Girdle is easy to get Fitzpitzle takes a little work Necro Orb isnt too bad, just gotta keep at it Bracelet of Thule takes a raid, but drops fairly commonly Soulfire Staff doesnt take too much work to get (just tedious) Mystical Earring of the Invoker doesnt take ANYTHING hardly Vine-Wrapped Boots arnt hard to get by now Freethinker Set takes 1 group to finish up Proc gear isnt hard to get, its just as hard as you make it...put in a little work and youll see a lot of results </p>

[nirate]

i wish devs woul dput subjugation in our buffs so we wouldnt have to waste aa's in the wis line just so we can do our job effectivly. Not to whine but illusionists have built in subjugation PLUS a short buff for int/sub as well, and coercers get the shaft once again in the good vs evil fight. Just one of those things that has been [Removed for Content] ever since KoS

[Aradia]

Thank you so much Lleinen, this is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for!!!!

[DwarvesR]

<cite>Rarlin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Korpo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aradia wrote:</cite><blockquote> I get the distinct feeling that the dev's don't know what to do with us either. <p><span style="color: #ff0000">No, it's that many coercers seem to think that just because they made a coercer, they're should automatically be required wherever they want to be required. There aren't many classes that are required on raids these days, everybody has to earn their spot. You earn your spot by knowing what you're doing, not by who you pick when you create a character.</span></p></blockquote> </blockquote> Amen <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>I agree with this too.  That said. . . . I logged in my coercer today and got a tell asking me to join a DT raid so fast that I actually missed it until I got a 2nd tell from the guy 5 minutes later and ended up scrolling up to see his 1st one.  And this isn't an uncommon thing.  I get a lot of requests to raid while I'm playing the coercer.  I sometimes have that happen on my inquis, but it's quite rare.  I'd say about 50% of the time I log the coercer in I get invited to raid, though.