tradeskill results are 10% skill and 90% luck

[Drokmed]

Argh frustrating! Doesn't matter if I'm making something "easy" or "hard"... either I have no problem cranking out a pristine, or I'm canceling a build that has already lost pristine, before hardly any progress has been made.  It's just too random.  This is ridiculous.  There's got to be a better way to make it skill based and not luck. No matter the difficulty, I never use my progress buttons.  It's always spam durability in between reactives.  Even on an "easy" item, if I hit progress, my durability plummets!  It's a game of Russian roulette!  Like most people, I'll sometimes have a run of good luck, making ten pristines in a row.  Then comes the bad luck, can't make even one in ten!

[Off]

Are you using the buttons tuned to the level you are crafting with?  That might make a difference. 

[Drokmed]

I'm only level 26 sage, have one level of each.

[Torri]

<p>Did you know that you get new versions every 10 levels? Did you know that the different version you got at level 10 affects the durability of your product instead of the progress of your build? Check the FAQ article sticked at the top of the page regarding tradeskill arts and you. It should help you a ton</p><p><i>Edit: It's in the How-to section, called Understanding your arts</i></p>

[Dragonz]

<p>you get buffs @ 2, 10, 20 ,30,40,51,61 tbh i have 5 lvl 70 artisens and since lu 37 lvling woodworkerfrom 24 -30</p><p> I've not found any difference at all. just thank your lucky stars u didn't do when subs, woads were needed. before  you start [I cannot control my vocabulary] I'd do what others suggested. when all else fails rtff. crafting isn't supposed to be a press button relax, it takes understanding some degree of skill and a lot of patience.</p><p>if you'd bothered to understand ur buffs one doesn't reduce durability just costs power, so u can increase ur progress without losing any durability, u get 3 for durabilty 3 for progress, they upgrade alt lvls, organise ur tradeskill book book into catagory, esier to find apporiate buffs per artisen</p>

[Illmarr]

Other question. Is your scribing skill maxed for your level? Less than maxed skill will get you more failed rounds. Very easy with leveling speed of a Sage to have your scribing skill fall behind

[HemoragiK]

In my opinion, crafting in EQ2 is almost as easy as crafting in WoW, which isn't good. I do love crafting, it's just too easy. I may be one of a very few who actually liked crafting better at game release than now. Relying on other crafters for mats kinda sucked though. If you are having problems crafting pristine items, you need to make sure you use your two latest tradeskill updates (e.g. lvl 20 and lvl 30 updates, lvl 30 and lvl 40, etc.). You spam the progress skills when you need to jack up progress, and durability when you need durability.

[sliderhouserules]

<cite>HemoragiK wrote:</cite><blockquote>I may be one of a very few who actually liked crafting better at game release than now. </blockquote>There are plenty of us around, most of us are just tired of getting berated or verbally lashed every time we try to factor this into a discussion. Too many people think "forward-looking" means you can't take anything from the past, whether it be a good idea or not. There are plenty of good aspects to the old(er) system(s) that would greatly enhance the current version of the crafting system if put back in. As an experiment, just watch how many people respond to this post saying "quit kicking the dead horse" or "old version gone, move on", etc. <img src="/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Tremelle]

You can pristine every item you make starting from lvl 1-70. Every ten lvls you get a set of three new buttons, two of these buttons if hit repeatedly will keep durability from decreasing and  can reverse durability lost. One  just effects progress (this is the button tat when you hit it it uses power). On my provie it looks like this. In a complete set there are a set of  6 buttons (3 durability, 3 progress), but only 3 icons, fully replaced every 20 lvls. Lvl 2 Awareness (Power used 42) Increase progress by 9 Constant Heat- Decrease durability by 9, Increase progress by 27 Seasoning-  Decrease success chance by 6, Increase progress by 18 Lvl 10 Realization (Power used 85) Increase durability by 10 Slow Simmer Decrease progress by10, Increase durability by 5 Spice Up Decrease success chance by 3, Increase durability by 10 Lvl 20 Foresight(power used 85)Increase progress by 18 Rapid Boil Decrease durability by 6, Increase progress by 18 Pinch of Salt Decrease success chance by 9, Increase progress by 27 Lvl 30 <span style="color: #cccc00">Apprehension (power used 128 )Increase durability by 15 Reduce Heat Decrease progress by20, Increase durability by 10 Dash of Pepper Decrease success chance by 6, Increase durability by 20</span> Lvl 40 Familiarity (power used 128 )Increase progress by 27 Presser Cook Decrease durability by 3, Increase progress by 9 Sugar Coat Decrease success chance by 3, Increase progress by 9 ( how they came up with these numbers is beyond me) At lvl 45, my provie exclusively uses the lvl 30 skills, by doing nothing more then hit  reduce heat and dash of pepper the durability bar never lowers and if it does some how lowers below pristine (this is a reduce on yield from 2-1 on provies), these buttons can be used to bring it back up. A quick scan of the numbers will tell you why crafting works like this. I do of course use all three buttons, countering a problem (just match the icons up) with the correct answer will yield faster crafting. Use all six buttons and you can craft faster, but you are more likly to loose durability.

[Kri]

<cite>Drokmed wrote:</cite><blockquote>Argh frustrating! Doesn't matter if I'm making something "easy" or "hard"... either I have no problem cranking out a pristine, or I'm canceling a build that has already lost pristine, before hardly any progress has been made.  It's just too random.  This is ridiculous.  There's got to be a better way to make it skill based and not luck. <span style="color: #ff0000"><b>No matter the difficulty, I never use my progress buttons.</b></span>  It's always spam durability in between reactives.  Even on an "easy" item, if I hit progress, my durability plummets!  It's a game of Russian roulette!  Like most people, I'll sometimes have a run of good luck, making ten pristines in a row.  Then comes the bad luck, can't make even one in ten! </blockquote> There's your problem. Crafting is a balance between durability and progress. I usually start with two rounds of durability and then do progress until the item is either finished or the last durability bar is dangerously low. If it drops like that I use durability counters for a bit to build it back up. After level 20 the only time I fail is when I get severely distracted by the phone or /tells.

[Besual]

Shadowbreath@Splitpaw wrote: <blockquote>Drokmed wrote: There's your problem. Crafting is a balance between durability and progress. I usually start with two rounds of durability and then do progress until the item is either finished or the last durability bar is dangerously low. If it drops like that I use durability counters for a bit to build it back up. After level 20 the only time I fail is when I get severely distracted by the phone or /tells. </blockquote> Well, it's still a bit of luck. Yesterday I lost 3x pristine because I got a critt failure in the last tick /sigh. May be it's because the way I craft: I start with only +progress till I'm down to 35-50% of the pristine durability. Then I switch to +progress -durability / +durability -success. With the right combination you get +1durability +~80progress on a normal success (not sure if you have such combination as a  level 24 sage). Depending on power I throw in a +progress -power (always the one that use the least amount of power) or +durability -power if the durability drops to low (below ~20% pristine). Of course is the RNG sometimes a mad gnome and throws a nice stroke of failures at me. Then I have to go for all +durabilty.

[Iseabeil]

<p>*shrugs* I only use progress buffs at extremely rare occassions, it takes a little bit longer I guess, but that makes no differance to me really. Some crafting classes simply seem to react in certain ways... My carpenter doesnt know what it means to lose a pristine, at lvl 69 she still uses lvl 30 buffs and only to counter event, maybe once per 30 combines I have to work for durability. My weaponsmith on the other hand have to pay for pristines with blood almost and only using buffs to counter events would be unthinkable on her. </p><p>But with the exception of weaponsmith, none of my crafters have had issues since pre-lvl 10 with getting straight pristine only using durability buffs.</p>

[Off]

<cite>Besual wrote:</cite><blockquote>Shadowbreath@Splitpaw wrote: <blockquote>Drokmed wrote: There's your problem. Crafting is a balance between durability and progress. I usually start with two rounds of durability and then do progress until the item is either finished or the last durability bar is dangerously low. If it drops like that I use durability counters for a bit to build it back up. After level 20 the only time I fail is when I get severely distracted by the phone or /tells. </blockquote> Well, it's still a bit of luck. Yesterday I lost 3x pristine because I got a critt failure in the last tick /sigh. May be it's because the way I craft: I start with only +progress till I'm down to 35-50% of the pristine durability. Then I switch to +progress -durability / +durability -success. With the right combination you get +1durability +~80progress on a normal success (not sure if you have such combination as a  level 24 sage). Depending on power I throw in a +progress -power (always the one that use the least amount of power) or +durability -power if the durability drops to low (below ~20% pristine). Of course is the RNG sometimes a mad gnome and throws a nice stroke of failures at me. Then I have to go for all +durabilty. </blockquote>Try reversing your process...I bet you'll be surprised!  For me, I always go durability for the first three rounds (18 seconds), and then I use progress for the next 18 seconds (three rounds).  After that I alternate and bada bing, it's a pristine!

[Jrral]

Shadowbreath@Splitpaw wrote: <blockquote>There's your problem. Crafting is a balance between durability and progress. I usually start with two rounds of durability and then do progress until the item is either finished or the last durability bar is dangerously low. If it drops like that I use durability counters for a bit to build it back up. After level 20 the only time I fail is when I get severely distracted by the phone or /tells. </blockquote>Note what the guy said: if he uses progress buffs, giving up durability buffs that round, his durability plummets. I've had that happen to me, too: hit progress and WHAM, 2/3rds of a bar of durability gone on the next tick and I'm having to spam durability buffs for the next half-dozen ticks to avoid losing pristine entirely. It's easy to say "Use the progress buffs.", but hard to actually do when you're taking -50 to -100 in durability every tick.

[Calthine]

<p>I'm late chiming in on this, sorry, been at Fan Faire.</p><p>First, if the OP is in his 20's he has <i>three</i> sets of reactionary arts, as I think someone pointed out above.  If you didn't pick up your new ones at level 20 your skill will have started to slip below the cap,and that's gonna cause you major issues - like massive durability slips.  If you're not using white-con arts (which would be your T3 ones in this case) regularly, your chance of a skillup plummets.  So find those and incorporate them into however you craft.  Even if you're using one new progress art and two old durability arts.</p><p>And this just in from the Rising into Kunark panel at Fan Faire:  Kunark will bring us a TS Arts revamp.  The arts WILL upgrade so we only have 6 at any given time (yes, T1 is being taken care of).  And they will upgrade automatically.  Our Knowledge books will be much easier to find stuff in!  So for the permanently confused hang in there.</p><p>(Yes, I have more TS info from Fan Faire, but it's 1am in Vegas and I gotta leave at 7 to catch a plane.  Stay tuned.  Or maybe someone will beat me to it!)</p>

[ke'la]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'm late chiming in on this, sorry, been at Fan Faire.</p><p>First, if the OP is in his 20's he has <i>three</i> sets of reactionary arts, as I think someone pointed out above.  If you didn't pick up your new ones at level 20 your skill will have started to slip below the cap,and that's gonna cause you major issues - like massive durability slips.  If you're not using white-con arts (which would be your T3 ones in this case) regularly, your chance of a skillup plummets.  So find those and incorporate them into however you craft.  Even if you're using one new progress art and two old durability arts.</p><p>And this just in from the Rising into Kunark panel at Fan Faire:  Kunark will bring us a TS Arts revamp.  The arts WILL upgrade so we only have 6 at any given time (yes, T1 is being taken care of).  And they will upgrade automatically.  Our Knowledge books will be much easier to find stuff in!  So for the permanently confused hang in there.</p><p>(Yes, I have more TS info from Fan Faire, but it's 1am in Vegas and I gotta leave at 7 to catch a plane.  Stay tuned.  Or maybe someone will beat me to it!)</p></blockquote>I don't know about beating you too it, because I really only understood about half of Domino's 10min answer to your "how exsactly does tradeskills work" question, but what I did understand is that Skills and Skill bonus iteams, reaction arts and stuff do play a very sugnificant roll in what happens infact in her 10min answer I think she said there was just one Roll that everything else modified.

[Liyle]

OK, here's a little analogy: Progress is sort of like DPS (offensive) and Durability is sort of like healing (defensive.) Yes, you can stand there flatfooted in auto-attack and do nothing but heal yourself, but why? If your mob is moderately lucky, it will out-DPS your healing and down you go. Same principle. Also, you know you don't just get one "spell" per round ("tick"), you get 3. The ones I would limit use on are the Power ones, not the Progress ones. There is seldom any point in pumping power into an average tick... unless you are countering an event or having really bad Mojo. There are 3 levels of events and you get a bigger wallop for successfully countering a Major one than a Minor one. If your Durability is falling behind, counter your next Major with Durability. It's really worthwhile learning to use Progress as the primary. Otherwise you are kind of like a Pally who never uses any of his offensive CA's. In fact it's worth learning to use the crafting system, period, to make crafting much more interesting.

[Calris]

<cite>sliderhouserules wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>HemoragiK wrote:</cite><blockquote>I may be one of a very few who actually liked crafting better at game release than now. </blockquote>There are plenty of us around, most of us are just tired of getting berated or verbally lashed every time we try to factor this into a discussion. Too many people think "forward-looking" means you can't take anything from the past, whether it be a good idea or not.  </blockquote> Or could it possibly be good idea/bad idea is a matter of opinion, and these people think it's a seriously bad idea? (Pay no mind to the forum reg date, I've been in and out of the game since beta) Also, Hemo's statement that crafting in EQ2 is almost as easy as in WoW is utterly absurd. WoW's crafting is just select the recipe and click combine, then wait. Anyway, more to the point of the thread, I've noticed that the scholor trades, especially sage, seem to suffer higher durability loss rates than the other trades. At tier 3, it's a battle to keep the durability up to App4 level. I'm sure the T4 durability push skills will help that out a lot, but it definitely is harder than the other trades.

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>I make pristine 100% of the time on all my alts except when no dura buffs are available (lvl 1-9). I havent had anything but pristine since about a month after I signed up in 2005. I never let my top dura bar get below 50% as there is almost always a bad tick or critical failure at the next one that drops below 50%. </p><p>There's another event at around 35% dura that always produces a bad tick that will automatically complete your recipe at the step lower than pristine. So...I never let mine drop below 50%.</p>

[Calris]

The events are random. There are no events at 50% or 35%.

[Gromph]

Calthine wrote: <blockquote><p>... If you didn't pick up your new ones at level 20 your skill will have started to slip below the cap,and that's gonna cause you major issues - like massive durability slips.  If you're not using white-con arts (which would be your T3 ones in this case) regularly, your chance of a skillup plummets. ...</p></blockquote><p>This is indeed valuable information, and something I havn't seen elsewere (or have forgotten). If this is true it may explain the OP difficulty to reach pristine quality and also explain why a player can have such different experiences with different toons.</p><p>In particular this may happen pre-30 since the buffs achieved at 20 is for progress, and are just scaled up versions of the old ones. A lot of people (me included) probably don't see the new ones too useful and simply don't use them much. </p>

[Jrral]

<cite>Gromph wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>In particular this may happen pre-30 since the buffs achieved at 20 is for progress, and are just scaled up versions of the old ones. A lot of people (me included) probably don't see the new ones too useful and simply don't use them much. </p></blockquote>I use the biggest progress buffs I can get away with when I'm on the first bar, until my durability starts to get down around 50%. That first bar is always the slowest to complete, so if I can get it filled quickly I'm in better shape. Once I'm on the second progress bar I can concentrate more on keeping durability, and even trade progress for durability, and not completely stop progressing.

[Guy De Alsace]

<cite>Tygerpaws wrote:</cite><blockquote>The events are random. There are no events at 50% or 35%. </blockquote><p> Thats what I told myself to begin with and then after crafting for 2 years I've seen this happen so often that it cant just be RNG oddities. Predicting bad ticks is half the trick of never getting less than pristine. Switching from progress to durability buffs doubles the chance of the next tick being bad for instance. Same if you get a skillup on a tick, the next one will have an increased chance of being a bad one.</p><p>Call it RNG oddities if you want but these have kept me crafting good items for a good long while. </p>

[Calris]

Guy De Alsace wrote: <blockquote><cite>Tygerpaws wrote:</cite><blockquote>The events are random. There are no events at 50% or 35%. </blockquote><p> Thats what I told myself to begin with and then after crafting for 2 years I've seen this happen so often that it cant just be RNG oddities. </p></blockquote> Well, then, the game works differently for you than everyone else. Or your perceptions are just skewed because you -want- to see a pattern. I, on the other hand, have not seen the events you describe happening predictably at those levels. Or any events at any levels.

[StormCinder]

<cite>Tygerpaws wrote:</cite><blockquote>Guy De Alsace wrote: <blockquote><cite>Tygerpaws wrote:</cite><blockquote>The events are random. There are no events at 50% or 35%. </blockquote><p> Thats what I told myself to begin with and then after crafting for 2 years I've seen this happen so often that it cant just be RNG oddities. </p></blockquote> Well, then, the game works differently for you than everyone else. Or your perceptions are just skewed because you -want- to see a pattern. I, on the other hand, have not seen the events you describe happening predictably at those levels. Or any events at any levels. </blockquote><p>Tygerpaws is absolutely correct.  There are predictable events which occur during TSing.  </p><p>Those that attribute mistakes to the RNG are living near a river in Egypt.</p><p>SC</p>

[Calthine]

<cite>StormCinder wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tygerpaws wrote:</cite><blockquote>Guy De Alsace wrote: <blockquote><cite>Tygerpaws wrote:</cite><blockquote>The events are random. There are no events at 50% or 35%. </blockquote><p> Thats what I told myself to begin with and then after crafting for 2 years I've seen this happen so often that it cant just be RNG oddities. </p></blockquote> Well, then, the game works differently for you than everyone else. Or your perceptions are just skewed because you -want- to see a pattern. I, on the other hand, have not seen the events you describe happening predictably at those levels. Or any events at any levels. </blockquote><p>Tygerpaws is absolutely correct.  There are predictable events which occur during TSing.  </p><p>Those that attribute mistakes to the RNG are living near a river in Egypt.</p><p>SC</p></blockquote>Not according to Domino and Silverfrost, who is in charge of Mechanics (and helped Domino with the "how the heck crafting works" answer).  I asked Domino at Fan Faire exactly what happens mechanically during a crafting round.  in less than one second there's an astounding amount going one, she talked for what, over 5 minutes?  I recorded it AND she gave me the spread sheet.  Unfortunately it's in the suitcase the airline misplaced.  I should have it later today. Oh - she said that, definitively, it's better to craft nekkid.

[Editedmind]

Too easy. Once you know all the tricks you'll never fail a pristine unless you're reading a good book while crafting, and then only during an exciting part.

[StormCinder]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>StormCinder wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tygerpaws wrote:</cite><blockquote>Guy De Alsace wrote: <blockquote><cite>Tygerpaws wrote:</cite><blockquote>The events are random. There are no events at 50% or 35%. </blockquote><p> Thats what I told myself to begin with and then after crafting for 2 years I've seen this happen so often that it cant just be RNG oddities. </p></blockquote> Well, then, the game works differently for you than everyone else. Or your perceptions are just skewed because you -want- to see a pattern. I, on the other hand, have not seen the events you describe happening predictably at those levels. Or any events at any levels. </blockquote><p>Tygerpaws is absolutely correct.  There are predictable events which occur during TSing.  </p><p>Those that attribute mistakes to the RNG are living near a river in Egypt.</p><p>SC</p></blockquote>Not according to Domino and Silverfrost, who is in charge of Mechanics (and helped Domino with the "how the heck crafting works" answer).  I asked Domino at Fan Faire exactly what happens mechanically during a crafting round.  in less than one second there's an astounding amount going one, she talked for what, over 5 minutes?  I recorded it AND she gave me the spread sheet.  Unfortunately it's in the suitcase the airline misplaced.  I should have it later today. Oh - she said that, definitively, it's better to craft nekkid. </blockquote><p>Is this the same Domino who said there hasn't been a change to the rare drops?  (<strike>see previous posting in this thread</strike>) sorry...it's in a different thread...but if you're reading this one, you read the other one.</p><p>SC </p>

[Domino]

It's the same Domino who specifically said there HAS been a change to rare drops, yes, and is looking at it this week. The longer you go while crafting without having a rare event, the more likely you are to get one.  There are no events guaranteed to pop up at exactly 35% through or any other number.  Each round there is a chance of one, and the longer it's been since the last one, the better the chance.

[Paddyo]

<p>Yeah...I read a post that outlined a BUNCH of changes that were made that effect rare harvests Domino made...If she has been anything at all, its been straightforward.</p><p>oh, and off topic, but as far as the rares go, I hope its not just a decimal place thing, and noone winds up in a maximum security pound me in ....oh, NM, that's bank fraud I'm thinking of.</p>

[Karellen]

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's the same Domino who specifically said there HAS been a change to rare drops, yes, and is looking at it this week. <span style="color: #ff3333"><b>The longer you go while crafting without having a rare event, the more likely you are to get one.</b> </span> There are no events guaranteed to pop up at exactly 35% through or any other number.  Each round there is a chance of one, and the longer it's been since the last one, the better the chance. </blockquote><p> Hi, sorry Domino previous events dont affect future chances according to probability theory. The oposite is a common missnderstanding. BTW excellent job with the tradeskill changes.</p><p>Karellen</p>

[ZeroRavesOn]

<cite>Karellen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's the same Domino who specifically said there HAS been a change to rare drops, yes, and is looking at it this week. <span style="color: #ff3333"><b>The longer you go while crafting without having a rare event, the more likely you are to get one.</b> </span> There are no events guaranteed to pop up at exactly 35% through or any other number.  Each round there is a chance of one, and the longer it's been since the last one, the better the chance. </blockquote><p> Hi, sorry Domino previous events dont affect future chances according to probability theory. The oposite is a common missnderstanding. BTW excellent job with the tradeskill changes.</p></blockquote> Unless the game does keep track of how long it has been since you have got a rare event, and tweaks up the probability.  As players we don't know how it works, exactly, just that they are meant to be quite rare.

[Calthine]

<cite>Karellen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's the same Domino who specifically said there HAS been a change to rare drops, yes, and is looking at it this week. <span style="color: #ff3333"><b>The longer you go while crafting without having a rare event, the more likely you are to get one.</b> </span> There are no events guaranteed to pop up at exactly 35% through or any other number.  Each round there is a chance of one, and the longer it's been since the last one, the better the chance. </blockquote><p> Hi, sorry Domino previous events dont affect future chances according to probability theory. The oposite is a common missnderstanding. BTW excellent job with the tradeskill changes.</p><p>Karellen</p></blockquote> And you're the TS dev now?  You've seen the code?  Domino spent several hours with Silverfrost digging out the mechanics of tradeskilling for a panel at Fan Faire, I think she <i>might</i> have a better idea how it works than you.  If she says there's a modifier that does that, rather than a straight PRNG, I'm betting there is.

[CoLD MeTaL]

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's the same Domino who specifically said there HAS been a change to rare drops, yes, and is looking at it this week. The longer you go while crafting without having a rare event, the more likely you are to get one.  There are no events guaranteed to pop up at exactly 35% through or any other number.  Each round there is a chance of one, and the longer it's been since the last one, the better the chance. </blockquote><p> Are you including Insight in that?  And does it reset your chances?</p><p>Because in nearly 500 levels and nearly 3 years of grinding ts, I have seen favor twice, and the other one once.  So if it's true, double that modifier and it still won't be seen enough for most to know it exists.</p><p>I do get an Insight every so often.</p>

[Snapdragyn]

<cite>Editedmind wrote:</cite><blockquote>Too easy. Once you know all the tricks you'll never fail a pristine unless you're reading a good book while crafting, and then only during an exciting part. </blockquote><p> As someone who has continuing wifi connectivity issues, I would have to add 'lag' (in the broad lay-player sense) to this. I've failed pristine a few times when a combination of stuttering connectivity & 'major' events (which I couldn't counter since I didn't see them until after they were over) caused me to drop down a quality level while I was too far along in progress to gain it back no matter how much I spammed dura once my connection stabilized.</p><p>I hate wifi. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Calris]

<cite>Paddyo wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yeah...I read a post that outlined a BUNCH of changes that were made that effect rare harvests Domino made...If she has been anything at all, its been straightforward.</p></blockquote> But it's en vogue to accuse devs of lying to us. :p In this game and any other.

[Calris]

<cite>Karellen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's the same Domino who specifically said there HAS been a change to rare drops, yes, and is looking at it this week. <span style="color: #ff3333"><b>The longer you go while crafting without having a rare event, the more likely you are to get one.</b> </span> There are no events guaranteed to pop up at exactly 35% through or any other number.  Each round there is a chance of one, and the longer it's been since the last one, the better the chance. </blockquote><p> Hi, sorry Domino previous events dont affect future chances according to probability theory. The oposite is a common missnderstanding. BTW excellent job with the tradeskill changes.</p></blockquote> Probability theory doesn't account for the game actively increasing the odds for each event-less round.

[greenmantle]

<p>Going againts the trend a little but  i tend to agree with the op. Ok its not  10 / 90 but i have been spoilt a while on povie sage and carpenter all maxed being able to tap away chat in guild and chanels and not try to hard to get pristine. </p><p> Leveling a new crafter and i forgot a little how hard it can be at lower levels. Yes is still get all pristines but i have to work at it and cancel the occasional as i watch the green vanish before progress has gotten any where. No one likes three critical failures in a row. What emphasises the random apperance is the lack of effect of correct counters , you can hit all the right combinations and see durability go south or as i have done on lvl70 crafters gone to answer the door or phone and come back to find pristine with  hitting a single button. </p><p>Please dont after going through 280 levels of crafting ask but are you hitting the right buttons. There does seem to be a freebie bonus on provisioners, perhaps its just nice rng but i would have to almost try and fail a pristine on a cook.  What its like for armorers and weapon smiths i dont know. </p><p>It would be nice to see bigger bonuses for correct counters and perhaps bigger penalties for failure. No i dont want to go back to the death by forge days but  it wuld be nice to see a stronger connection of action and result to make it feel a little more like crafting. </p><p>On  side point why does it seem harder to hit pristines in the 40's than the 70's? and does this discourage all those people that seem to give up arround then?</p>

[Domino]

<cite>Karellen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi, sorry Domino previous events dont affect future chances according to probability theory. The oposite is a common missnderstanding. BTW excellent job with the tradeskill changes.</blockquote>Code that specifically keeps track of each round and affects future chances, on the other hand, does.  <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Meio]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote> And you're the TS dev now?  You've seen the code?  Domino spent several hours with Silverfrost digging out the mechanics of tradeskilling for a panel at Fan Faire, I think she <i>might</i> have a better idea how it works than you.  If she says there's a modifier that does that, rather than a straight PRNG, I'm betting there is. </blockquote>...and when they say that the frogloks are in the game, then they are in the game!!! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[TheSpin]

<p>Yesterday, for the first time since pre-KoS, I got a rare event while tradeskilling that wasn't 'Insight'.  It's nice to see they still exist.</p>

[Calris]

<cite>TheSpin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yesterday, for the first time since pre-KoS, I got a rare event while tradeskilling that wasn't 'Insight'.  It's nice to see they still exist.</p></blockquote> Only one of those I got was the one that was supposed to reward you the rare resource.... While I was working on my Provi. D'oh!

[xOnaton1]

<cite>Tygerpaws wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheSpin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yesterday, for the first time since pre-KoS, I got a rare event while tradeskilling that wasn't 'Insight'.  It's nice to see they still exist.</p></blockquote> Only one of those I got was the one that was supposed to reward you the rare resource.... While I was working on my Provi. D'oh! </blockquote>If you successfully countered a Favor of Innovation on a provisioner you should have gotten a rare root. I have gotten a Flawless (something) maybe a few times on common recipes , but I have never gotten a Favor of Innovation since 2004. Othesus - Dirge - Lucan DLere Vaspar - Fury - Lucan DLere

[Calthine]

Othesus@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote> I have gotten a Flawless (something) maybe a few times on common recipes , but I have never gotten a Favor of Innovation since 2004. </blockquote> That's be a toughie, since they went in around April 2005.

[Spangles]

<p>I have had Favour of Innovation three times since I started crafting and I believe that without exception they all occurred whilst crafting rare items.  Two of them were while crafting palladium torques in the heady days when everyone needed them for the HQ.  </p><p>/dreams of the good old days</p><p>I haven't seen one for absolutely ages now, though.  I still get the occasional Insight now that I am grinding my armourer up, but I live in hope of seeing another rare event again.</p><p>Anyway, back on topic.  Other posters have already mentioned various methods of crafting, all of which are probably equally as effective.  Personally, I have never felt the need to start off spamming durability in order to build it up before switching to progress.  I just crack straight on with hitting progress until the durability falls to about 40% of the last bar, then hit durability to bring it back up again.  I use all three buttons until my power falls to about 10% then switch to only spamming 2 buttons.  My power always hover around the 10% mark throughout the crafting session, so I can counter any event that crops up, and as it builds up I drop in an occasional power based buff for increased progress/durability.</p><p>One thing I found that does make a marked difference is which set of icons you use.  As you rightly say, you get new ones every 10 levels (ish) and you should make sure you update your hotbars so you use the current set in order to build up your crafting skills.  However, and it is a big however, be careful about using the buff that increases progress/durability at the expense of an increased failure.  It is not a fixed rate throughout the levels and at the higher levels it can give some quite scary % increase of failure -if you are struggling to avoid failures it is not a good idea to reduce your success chances even more.  I prefer to use the lower level version of this counter because of the lower failure rate, even though it gives less of a boost.  You can mix and match your skills, so give this a try.</p><p>And like others, I have not had anything other than pristine for as long as I can remember.</p><p>On the subject of different classes, some trades definitely have it easier.  Crafting with my Carpenter and Prov is a cake walk, but I like to think that it is a reward for having to grind those levels with only two (yes count them, two) new recipes each level.  I know things have changed, but it was soul destroying getting a carpenter up to Lvl 70.  (Thanks for the new trading XP for writs!!)  Having said that, I have not noticed anything particularly difficult about crafting with other classes, just that Carp and Prov are dead easy.  For example, while doing rush tradeskill writs I usually have around 3-4 mins left on the timer with my Carp, but only about 1.5 to 2 mins spare with my Armourer, Jeweller or Alchy.</p><p>Oh, and yes, crafting naked is definitley better.  Since the power consumed is a % of your max power the less power you actually have to start with, then the less the power cost.  And the lower the power cost the less power you have to regen before using power based buffs again.  So it is best to have a really low level adventuring class (come straight from the island as soon as you create the character and go directly to the crafting house!!!), craft naked, don't use any stat increasing buffs, use a decent drink and you will never run out of power.  The down side is that you have low strength, so you are limited to using bags to carry your gear around and you have to accept that sometimes it takes forever to get back to the bank/postbox <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Liyle]

As far as I know drinks were changed so that they no longer provide "in-combat" power regen. The only thing you get from a drink is a shorter wait for your power to come back once you finish your combine.

[khanthemighty]

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Karellen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi, sorry Domino previous events dont affect future chances according to probability theory. The oposite is a common missnderstanding. BTW excellent job with the tradeskill changes.</blockquote>Code that specifically keeps track of each round and affects future chances, on the other hand, does.  <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> Does this also go for the Gigglegibber Goblin's Gamblin' Game? 

[Calthine]

And...  how would the TS dev know that?

[Calris]

<cite>khanthemighty wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Karellen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi, sorry Domino previous events dont affect future chances according to probability theory. The oposite is a common missnderstanding. BTW excellent job with the tradeskill changes.</blockquote>Code that specifically keeps track of each round and affects future chances, on the other hand, does.  <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> Does this also go for the Gigglegibber Goblin's Gamblin' Game?  </blockquote> And the Gigglegibber Goblin's Gamblin' Game is connected to tradeskills...how? Really, why would you even think that?

[Boyar]

<p>   Crafting isn't considered "in-combat" so drinks work well, and even power regen items, as long as they don't boost your power pool so high as to increase your TS art price by more than the power regen gained. </p><p>   As an illusionist/prov, I cancel all int or power pool buffs, but keep my regen buff, craft naked, and can generally get by without drink and still using power TS arts.</p><p>I usually craft with 3 rows of TS arts in my hotbar for each crafter:</p><ul><li>(7 8 9) one row of highest level/strongest progress arts</li><li>(4 5 6) one balanced row, usually -%/+dur then -dur/+prog then on most chars the lowest power art</li><li>(1 2 3) one row of highest level/strongest durability arts</li></ul><p>   I train my fingers for the 3 icons, and I just move my hand up or down a row on the number pad as I want to shift into higher or lower gear.</p><p>   I've also found that going straight durability all the way through is a bad way to get a pristine. It very much feels to me that the more cycles I take, the greater the chance of critical failure taking me down, and the more chances for me to make a mistake. Pushing the craft through quickly but not recklessly, has made crit fails pretty rare for me, and I only ever fail pristine when something distracts me. (Makes me wonder if the rare event chance also applies to crit failures, and if it resets with every combine; rare events, even insight, do seem much more uncommon than they used to, but it could just be my short combines)</p>

[Powers]

Thud@Befallen wrote: <blockquote><p>(Makes me wonder if the rare event chance also applies to crit failures, and if it resets with every combine; rare events, even insight, do seem much more uncommon than they used to, but it could just be my short combines)</p></blockquote> I believe the rare events seem more rare these days because we're no longer crafting subcombines.  Prior to LU24, you would get rare events every X combines, but that would only be every X/5 (say) completed items.  Now, we still get rare events every X combines but it's also only once every X completed items, so it seems like 1/5 of the old rate.  =) If I recall correctly, the original concept behind the Insight events was that it would be likely to appear while you were making subcombines (statistically) and thus provide you a boost going into making the final. Powers  &8^]

[RingleToo]

So Favor of Innovation is still in the game? Since I have never gotten one (and I have 3 crafters), it's good to know that some day I may. Stopped holding my breath long time ago tho <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Calthine]

<cite>RingleToo wrote:</cite><blockquote>So Favor of Innovation is still in the game? Since I have never gotten one (and I have 3 crafters), it's good to know that some day I may. Stopped holding my breath long time ago tho <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>I got one less than a month ago.  It's very very very very rare.  Very.  Remember how rare rare harvests were at launch?  More rare than that.

[Off]

Aye extremely rare.  Have never once in my 3+ years as a provi gotten FoI, but I got it once on my jeweler and once on my alchy. 

[Rast]

there is no luck or skill in crafting.  neither is needed to be honest.  Just press the keys in the right order (a bit of strategy, which might be considered skill, but it is negligible) and the ability to tolerate extreme boredom for hours on end to make things that noone in their right mind would ever want...

[xOnaton1]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>Othesus@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>I have gotten a Flawless (something) maybe a few times on common recipes , but I have never gotten a Favor of Innovation since 2004. </blockquote> That's be a toughie, since they went in around April 2005. </blockquote>Yup! I haven't gotten one since <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=252928" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">LU #6</a>. And I didn't get one before that too! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> One may have popped up when I was half asleep though... Othesus - Dirge - Lucan DLere Vaspar - Fury - Lucan DLere

[Karellen]

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Karellen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi, sorry Domino previous events dont affect future chances according to probability theory. The oposite is a common missnderstanding. BTW excellent job with the tradeskill changes.</blockquote>Code that specifically keeps track of each round and affects future chances, on the other hand, does.  <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p> Well to my knowledge this is the first time to be said that the RNG is intentionaly biased in certain circumstances. </p><p>Its important to know that, thanks.<img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Karellen</p>

[RingleToo]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>RingleToo wrote:</cite><blockquote>So Favor of Innovation is still in the game? Since I have never gotten one (and I have 3 crafters), it's good to know that some day I may. Stopped holding my breath long time ago tho <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>I got one less than a month ago.  It's very very very very rare.  Very.  Remember how rare rare harvests were at launch?  More rare than that. </blockquote><p>The good ol' days of harvesting forever to find a rare. I kinda miss those days in a "miss sticking needles in my eye" kind of way <img src="/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>The only thing is, it just seems like there should be more balance then where some have gotten multiple FoI events and some have never gotten any. But I still like the idea - always fun to have something to hope for. </p>

[Phoxtrot]

Nope, it's not luck. I have done dozens of rush orders with different classes and I haven't missed one yet. And yes, I do use the progress skills too. You need to analyze mathematicaly what are the better trade offs. Of c ourse you need to hit the durability buffs more of ten than the progress ones but you have to know wh ich progress skill is the less costly to use in th erms of progress gained compaired to the durabilit y you lost in using or did not gain by beeing unable to use the corres ponding durability one. I wish we could see those favor of innovation a tr iffle more often, I must have got 2 since it was i mplemented and both low tier craft even though I m ostly craft T6-T7. It's nice to know that the system keeps track  of how long it has been since our last nice event.  Note that if it also check the tier we are using  then we are screwed, because the instant we do som e low tier stuff, we risk getting the rare on that  tier and spoil our accumulated "luck" counter (or whatever it is called).

[Calris]

Wow. Who broke the page length? Or are my settings screwed up somehow?

[Calthine]

Calris@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Wow. Who broke the page length? Or are my settings screwed up somehow? </blockquote> Nope, me too.  Just on this one thread.  Formatting funkiness.