Poor Performance

[Apheresis]

<p>Hey all,</p><p>I am really enjoying this game but I have an issue with toning down my graphics...why should I do that on a game that came out in 2004?</p><p>Asus A8X-VE 2 GB DDR Gforce 7600GS 256MB AMD64 X2 3800</p><p>This game does not have any bumpmapping or the like so I am confused as to why I can run Vanguard at Very High and can only get this game to run smoothly without significant frame rates at Balanced.</p><p>The graphics engine does not use any advanced features except for dynamic light...</p><p>Thanks for your help...</p><p>A</p>

[Aduma]

I have the same CPU, amount of ram and 7600 gt that you have. First of all, you are incorrect: Everquest does use bumpmapping. Everquest also usees other advanced features besides dynamic lighting as well. This is why you have graphics detail sliders for things like "Complex Shader Distance" and "Max bump point distance." That's Bump as in Bump Mapping, by the way. I would suggest trying this guide: <a href="http://eq2.tentonhammer.com/index.php?module=ContentExpress&file=index&func=display&ceid=8&meid=125" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2.tentonhammer.com/index.p...=8&meid=125</a> What texture resolutions are you running? Maximum is generally only reccomended for 512 MB cards. How many high and low deetail models do you have set? Do you have Anti aliasing or antisotropic filtering enabled int eh driver? What about light settings? How many maximum dynamic lights do you have set? I think if you spend some more time in the graphics setting you will find that your assertion that Eq2 uses "no advanced features" and so on to be not entirely true.  It is extremely tunable, however. If you just pushed every slider to the right all the way, the game will absolutely crawl.

[Norrsken]

<cite>Apheresis wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Hey all,</p><p>I am really enjoying this game but I have an issue with toning down my graphics...why should I do that on a game that came out in 2004?</p><p>Asus A8X-VE 2 GB DDR Gforce 7600GS 256MB AMD64 X2 3800</p><p>This game does not have any bumpmapping or the like so I am confused as to why I can run Vanguard at Very High and can only get this game to run smoothly without significant frame rates at Balanced.</p><p>The graphics engine does not use any advanced features except for dynamic light...</p><p>Thanks for your help...</p><p>A</p></blockquote>I think I've seen DOT3 bumpmapping. Not very advanced nowadays, I agree, but 3 years ago, it was very hawt. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And they have some other stuff. Browse the options for more tweaks than I've ever seen in any other engine before. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Leemeg]

Btw, don't let the release date fool you. Yes, this game was released in 2004, but it has also been developed further from that date. The engine has been enhanced, the zones has been enhanced. The zones we sees in EoF probably couldn't have been made in the original system, and the next expansion will take this one step further. And when you change the setting to Very High Quality, or Extreme Quality, you do get a warning: "This setting will not likely be playable on even the highest-end hardware that exists." That warning is still true <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Yes,  I do know some can play it on extreme (I can in some extent), but if too many characters get there at the same time, and using spells and such, you will get to halt (or bad performance) <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> If you want most out of the game, graphic wise, you will need to tweak the settings. Everything on max will not work <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Wrapye]

The game is also very CPU-bound, much more so than GPU-bound.  I think the engine was designed with the processors of the day in mind (i.e. single core with both Intel and AMD in a race towards higher clock speeds).  That paradigm changed when the Core Duo chips came out.  Now it is about multi-core (which the game does not take advantage of) vs. clock speed of the chip.  I would almost bet that an older single-core CPU at the top of the GHz range for that series would work better for the game than the newest multi-core setup. I have to turn the graphics down to High Performance or less if I am raiding, and that is with an 8800GTX, E6600 and 4GB RAM under XP Pro.

[Leemeg]

<cite>Wrapye wrote:</cite><blockquote>The game is also very CPU-bound, much more so than GPU-bound.  I think the engine was designed with the processors of the day in mind (i.e. single core with both Intel and AMD in a race towards higher clock speeds).  That paradigm changed when the Core Duo chips came out.  Now it is about multi-core (which the game does not take advantage of) vs. clock speed of the chip.  I would almost bet that an older single-core CPU at the top of the GHz range for that series would work better for the game than the newest multi-core setup. I have to turn the graphics down to High Performance or less if I am raiding, and that is with an 8800GTX, E6600 and 4GB RAM under XP Pro. </blockquote>I do raid in Very High Quality, but with one modification: Options=>Display=>Particle Effects=>Max Spell Results per Character=> Minimum of that, and it run smoothly in a full raid.

[Runestone]

Aduma@Najena wrote: <blockquote>I have the same CPU, amount of ram and 7600 gt that you have. First of all, you are incorrect: Everquest does use bumpmapping. Everquest also usees other advanced features besides dynamic lighting as well. This is why you have graphics detail sliders for things like "Complex Shader Distance" and "Max bump point distance." That's Bump as in Bump Mapping, by the way. I would suggest trying this guide: <a href="http://eq2.tentonhammer.com/index.php?module=ContentExpress&file=index&func=display&ceid=8&meid=125" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2.tentonhammer.com/index.p...=8&meid=125</a> What texture resolutions are you running? Maximum is generally only reccomended for 512 MB cards. How many high and low deetail models do you have set? Do you have Anti aliasing or antisotropic filtering enabled int eh driver? What about light settings? How many maximum dynamic lights do you have set? I think if you spend some more time in the graphics setting you will find that your assertion that Eq2 uses "no advanced features" and so on to be not entirely true.  It is extremely tunable, however. If you just pushed every slider to the right all the way, the game will absolutely crawl. </blockquote>Thanks for this link.. I have a system that is a bit dated and it will be nice to try some of these settings to see if I can maybe get a happy medium going.

[Apheresis]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>I think I've seen DOT3 bumpmapping. Not very advanced nowadays, I agree, but 3 years ago, it was very hawt. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And they have some other stuff. Browse the options for more tweaks than I've ever seen in any other engine before. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p>Thank you very much for that link, I will definetly do the walkthrough until I find the perfect setting. </p><p>On a personal note, I don't think the graphics are all that amazing to warrant the steep performance needs. I played LOTRO on full settings, full AA, full AF, max resolution with high res textures and never had the frame rate drop below 100. To me at least, the graphics are not fantastic...there are other games such as LOTRO, EVE and Vanguard with much better graphics and lot less performance needs...</p><p>In any case, the gameplay is the strength of this game and I am loving it... </p>

[Norrsken]

<cite>Apheresis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>I think I've seen DOT3 bumpmapping. Not very advanced nowadays, I agree, but 3 years ago, it was very hawt. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And they have some other stuff. Browse the options for more tweaks than I've ever seen in any other engine before. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p>Thank you very much for that link, I will definetly do the walkthrough until I find the perfect setting. </p><p>On a personal note, I don't think the graphics are all that amazing to warrant the steep performance needs. I played LOTRO on full settings, full AA, full AF, max resolution with high res textures and never had the frame rate drop below 100. To me at least, the graphics are not fantastic...there are other games such as LOTRO, EVE and Vanguard with much better graphics and lot less performance needs...</p><p>In any case, the gameplay is the strength of this game and I am loving it... </p></blockquote>link, what link? Waaait a minute?! you're being sarcastic arent ya? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Well, vanguard and lotr are about 2-3 years the juniors of eq2.  If you wanna compare with something thats a tad more fair, go with wow. and honestly, eq2 graphics in my opinion, are better than vanguard. Lotr is different, and a bit bland to me, but still, a fairly ok game seen to pure graphics. And Eve, I never tried, but making spaceships look good in space isnt very taxing on rendering.

[wutru]

EQ2 has always had performance issues, it was just a badly designed engine from the start.  It's too bad because that's why so many people avoid this game, their systems can't handle this poorly designed system.

[Norrsken]

<cite>wutru wrote:</cite><blockquote>EQ2 has always had performance issues, it was just a badly designed engine from the start.  It's too bad because that's why so many people avoid this game, their systems can't handle this poorly designed system.</blockquote>Wouldnt say poorly designed. I'd more like to say not enough time to implement the design. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[StoneySilen]

<cite>wutru wrote:</cite><blockquote>EQ2 has always had performance issues, it was just a badly designed engine from the start.  It's too bad because that's why so many people avoid this game, their systems can't handle this poorly designed system.</blockquote>No, they just future proofed it and unfortunately for them the future didn't go the way they thought it would so now they have a engine designed around a technology path that didn't materialize. This is one reason why I don't think MMO's should try to design for the future.  They should design for systems that are out at the time the game is released (or slightly in the future) then update as needed as the game goes on.

[Norrsken]

Nitelen@The Bazaar wrote: <blockquote><cite>wutru wrote:</cite><blockquote>EQ2 has always had performance issues, it was just a badly designed engine from the start.  It's too bad because that's why so many people avoid this game, their systems can't handle this poorly designed system.</blockquote>No, they just future proofed it and unfortunately for them the future didn't go the way they thought it would so now they have a engine designed around a technology path that didn't materialize. This is one reason why I don't think MMO's should try to design for the future.  They should design for systems that are out at the time the game is released (or slightly in the future) then update as needed as the game goes on. </blockquote>Or make designs easily extendible. which takes more time to implement, and usually, oyu pay for it with a bit of performance.

[Freliant]

Nitelen@The Bazaar wrote: <blockquote><cite>wutru wrote:</cite><blockquote>EQ2 has always had performance issues, it was just a badly designed engine from the start.  It's too bad because that's why so many people avoid this game, their systems can't handle this poorly designed system.</blockquote>No, they just future proofed it and unfortunately for them the future didn't go the way they thought it would so now they have a engine designed around a technology path that didn't materialize. This is one reason why I don't think MMO's should try to design for the future.  They should design for systems that are out at the time the game is released (or slightly in the future) then update as needed as the game goes on. </blockquote> EQ2 was not a badly designed engine. It was an engine designed with increases in video power from the start. The only problem with EQ2 graphics has to do with shadows. They are great, but they are much too processor intensive. Until a video card comes out that can do EQ2's shadow generator justice, the best way to cut down on that performance cap is to disable shadows. Overall, EQ2 was spot-on on what an MMO should have been from the get go, not that cartoonish stuff, or the over-enthusiastic efforts of Vanguard. Can more be done? Yes, specially when it comes to particle effects, light shimmers and alot of other effects that can make the game much better... AND the ability to change hair to use a much higher poligon count among other things. I see the game changing quiet a bit over the next 5 years into something that will be even more appealing to the visual pallate. (Imagine the GPU and CPU changes by then... 4,000 MHZ FSB ftw <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).