At what level does Race no longer matter - REALLY?

[Ansbach]

<p>OK, so a common phrase for people to mention around here is that race doesn't matter in the long run because the stat differences are insignificant.  My question is this - at what level is the difference insignificant?</p><p>More specifically, I frequently see advice to noobs to pick whatever race you like because by the time you get to 20th level it won't matter.  However, a typical 'large' gap in starting stats is around 15 points (Ogre vs. Halfling in STR, for example). 20th level gear seems to give you stat bonuses of around +5 or so - 15 points doesn't sound insignificant to me there: it sounds like uber-gear.</p><p>From another angle - at the point where your starts are an average of 150, an Ogre has about a 10% higher strength than a Halfling, which would still be pretty significant in my opinion.  At what level do your stats average 150?</p><p>What am I missing here?</p><p>At what point is a +15 stat increase insignificant in your opinion?</p>

[Lortet]

<p>like everything else in this game, it all depends on how you want to play it.</p><p>Race makes almost no difference if you plan to race through the low end of the game as the racial difference will be insignificant to mid - late game stats.</p><p>Race makes little difference to those who are able to twink their junior alts with mastercrafted gear - a set of bronze vanguard has +4 str on each piece - 7 total so 28 str. Add a couple of copper earrings (another +4 each) and a weapon/shield etc, and you have more str and power than you need against anything you might come across. Yes the ogre with more strength has a bit more, but once you can kill any potential threat with a reasonable degree of margin any more won't really make a difference. Add an adept 3 str buff (sorry SK's, sob) for another 18 or so str around lvl 8.</p><p>Finding WIS stats for priests, AGI stats for scouts is a bit more problematic, but not game breaking.</p><p>Once you reach the second tier the str on mastercrafted jumps to +6 per item.</p><p>If you are starting out and don't plan on twinking, and take it slowly through the low levels, you will see a race difference.</p>

[DwarvesR]

<p>In my opinion, the level when race no long matters is:</p><p>Level 1.</p><p>I've made fighters of "weak" races.  The survived.  I've made mages of "dumb" races.  They've survived.  I've made priests of "unwise" races.  they've survived.  And I've made scouts of "clumsy" races.  They've survived.</p><p>Race never mattered.  Ever.</p>

[retro_guy]

<cite>Ansbach wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>OK, so a common phrase for people to mention around here is that race doesn't matter in the long run because the stat differences are insignificant.  My question is this - at what level is the difference insignificant?</p><p>More specifically, I frequently see advice to noobs to pick whatever race you like because by the time you get to 20th level it won't matter.  However, a typical 'large' gap in starting stats is around 15 points (Ogre vs. Halfling in STR, for example). 20th level gear seems to give you stat bonuses of around +5 or so - 15 points doesn't sound insignificant to me there: it sounds like uber-gear.</p><p>From another angle - at the point where your starts are an average of 150, an Ogre has about a 10% higher strength than a Halfling, which would still be pretty significant in my opinion.  At what level do your stats average 150?</p><p>What am I missing here?</p><p>At what point is a +15 stat increase insignificant in your opinion?</p></blockquote>Ok at L45 on my (poorly equipped) necro I am STR 82, Agi 41, STA 148, Int 391, Wis 110 Every bit of fairly budget gear is atleast +15 int so I'd say by L30 (probably much earlier) you can make up for any shortcoming of the race just by adding a few adornments or buying some better gear. Race really does not matter at all - except there are a few nice race related traits, might be worth researching them.

[ke'la]

One other thing is that while yes an Ogre gets like 15 points more STR then other races, that also means they hit the point of Deminishing returns faster, wich is the Soft cap that you pass though just befor getting to the Hard cap. You see there is also a maximum amount of any stat you can have and as you get closer to the max the less meaningful each addtional point in that stat becomes, and as the cap is a Factor of your lvl something like 14 x lvl or something like that while yes having 15 more points does sound like alot but really all it means is your going to be 15 points over the cap while that Gnome over there is right at the cap, wairing the same gear as you.

[SageGaspar]

Level one in my opinion. Yeah, you can parse things out and you might find your ogre does 5% more damage at level 10 because of his innate strength or something, but in practice it will not really matter at all to how you play the game. I don't think you'll ever find yourself walking around and saying, [Removed for Content], I'm glad I have that ten strength or whatever.

[Aurumn]

If you're looking to just make up 15 strength you can get a couple of <a href="http://eq2.eqtraders.com/items/show_item.php?item=10384&menustr=080040000000" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Pristine Fright Imbued Roughspun Hex Doll</a>s that grant +9 Strength each and voila Halfling = Ogre. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> With the current drop rate of rares it shouldn't be too hard to beg/borrow/harvest a couple of roots for that and it's a level 17 Outfitter Essentials recipe so any outfitter can make it. Of course that's just one example.

[Cathars]

Jonna@Befallen wrote: <blockquote><p>In my opinion, the level when race no long matters is:</p><p>Level 1.</p><p>I've made fighters of "weak" races.  The survived.  I've made mages of "dumb" races.  They've survived.  I've made priests of "unwise" races.  they've survived.  And I've made scouts of "clumsy" races.  They've survived.</p><p>Race never mattered.  Ever.</p></blockquote> I've had the same experience.  At no point is the race you picked a game-breaker.

[EtoilePirate]

<cite>Catharsis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Jonna@Befallen wrote: <blockquote><p>In my opinion, the level when race no long matters is:</p><p>Level 1.</p><p>I've made fighters of "weak" races.  The survived.  I've made mages of "dumb" races.  They've survived.  I've made priests of "unwise" races.  they've survived.  And I've made scouts of "clumsy" races.  They've survived.</p><p>Race never mattered.  Ever.</p></blockquote> I've had the same experience.  At no point is the race you picked a game-breaker.</blockquote> Indeed.  The ONLY time I've had trouble with certain races' stats is that under level 20 or so, something like a fae mage gets burdened by his or her bags MUCH more quickly than something like, say, an ogre zerker.

[Gralthak]

Yep, was just about to say that... the only time I've actually felt the difference is races is during the very early game (level 20 or lower) with combination of class and race with low strength values.  They get encumbered much quicker than a 'strong' race/class combo.  Even that eventually goes away though, and if you're willing to forgo your primary stat on a single slot in lieu of strength you'll be fine.

[Karlen]

There are several non-stat ways that race matters to a small extent throughout the game, but none of them are at all gamebreaking. For example, short races are short.   This means that your viewpoint on the world will be lower and that you can drown (or at least be forced to swim) in shallow water that taller races can walk through.  Another example: Frogloks hop while other races walk.   This can make small movements more difficult (easier to fall off of things). There are likely other small differences that I haven't run across.   None of them make a big difference but do result in slightly different gameplay for characters of different races.

[Finora]

<cite>Ansbach wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>OK, so a common phrase for people to mention around here is that race doesn't matter in the long run because the stat differences are insignificant.  My question is this - at what level is the difference insignificant?</p><p>More specifically, I frequently see advice to noobs to pick whatever race you like because by the time you get to 20th level it won't matter.  However, a typical 'large' gap in starting stats is around 15 points (Ogre vs. Halfling in STR, for example). 20th level gear seems to give you stat bonuses of around +5 or so - 15 points doesn't sound insignificant to me there: it sounds like uber-gear.</p><p>From another angle - at the point where your starts are an average of 150, an Ogre has about a 10% higher strength than a Halfling, which would still be pretty significant in my opinion.  At what level do your stats average 150?</p><p>What am I missing here?</p><p>At what point is a +15 stat increase insignificant in your opinion?</p></blockquote><p>Since you get various 'traits' to pick every couple of levels, and many of those allow you to increase stats, the fact you can pick and choose your gear to increase whatever stat you feel you need more of etc etc, I feel the stats are pretty unimportant right from the get go.</p><p>The caster ogres can manage to get on pretty equal footing with erudites as far as intelligence goes if they concentrate on intelligence. While that erudite might want to pick up a couple pieces of str gear so he can carry the stuff he mananges to loot while he is out and about or stamina since theirs is so low. It all really evens out as you pick your gear for your character.</p><p>If someone is an ultra-min/max freak then yeah, thier erudite might end up with more intellegience than your average ogre caster. However, when you concentrate solely on one stat, you tend to limit your ability to play somewhat. (less surviablity because of such small stamina and lack of agility to dodge incoming blows,  inability to carry much, and so forth). </p><p>You can't forget that each class doesn't solely depend on one single stat. If you have a really high score in your main stat, you might not have as high a score in your secondary stat as someone of another race might. You'll spend time raising that one (because it is important) and the person of the other race will spend time raising the stat they are low in (if they are smart). </p>

[Kellin]

<p>Yep, the only game-affecting thing I've ever noticed is the fact that low-strength races playing mages tend to get overburdened very quickly.  </p><p>It was a big problem on my gnome illusionist until about level 60, actually, mainly due to coinage (and the fact that I am the world's worst when it comes to twinking - never remember to get new gear for my alts).  Now that coin has no weight, problem solved.  </p><p>Oh, and getting decent gear.  Yeah.  Gotta remember to do that.  :p</p>

[Gorpier]

<cite>Catharsis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Jonna@Befallen wrote: <blockquote><p>In my opinion, the level when race no long matters is:</p><p>Level 1.</p><p>I've made fighters of "weak" races.  The survived.  I've made mages of "dumb" races.  They've survived.  I've made priests of "unwise" races.  they've survived.  And I've made scouts of "clumsy" races.  They've survived.</p><p>Race never mattered.  Ever.</p></blockquote> I've had the same experience.  At no point is the race you picked a game-breaker.</blockquote> Yep, me too.  Just doesn't seem to matter at all.  I've tried a bit of everything in the 3 years I've had an account and I figure the 1-10 content is made so you can sleep through it and make it out alive, and after that it doesn't really matter cause you are starting to get class specific stats on your gear. and you have those lovely + signs ever so many levels to use to up certain stats as well..