Harvesting change or RNG love ?

[Jesdyr]

Lastnight I noticed an extremely high rate of rares across multiple zones. At one point I got 4 T6 rares within 15 min of eachother.  I would say within the 1.5hr I was harvesting lastnight I walked away with 12 rares. I noticed the high rate in Lesser Fay, LavaStorm, everfrost, and Nek forrest.

[Karioki]

<p>This morning I logged on an hour before reset.  The very first attempt at harvesting yielded ironwood.  in 45 minutes I got 2 ironwood, 3 colbolt and a saguaro in sinking sands.</p><p>Karioki</p>

[aardda]

<p>Didn't manage to harvest last night after the update, but will try tonight and hope what you say is true.</p><p>That said i have noticed a streaky rng in permafrost where i'm currently doing most of my harvesting. While collecting stuff to grind my 9 crafters through the tier i save up all my rares to make stuff when i'm done and so far have loads of rare pelts and wood, a good amount of rare roots, but i'll be damned if i can get much ebon, or anything rare from a soft metal node. There was one time a couple of weeks ago i got 2 rare woods in consecutive pulls from the same node.</p>

[steelblueangel]

<p>you guys must have just been lucky with the rares, because I harvested last night needing pelts and roots for my tailor for over 4 hours and only got one rare. Looks the same to me for rare finds little and far between. </p><p>One thing I did notice though was that instead of getting more pelts instead of meat like the update stated we would I got tons of meat and fewer pelts for my time; hence, the four hours of harvesting to get enough pelts to grind out my levels. Devs please look at the meat vs pelt harvest ratio since meats are still the highest percent in the harvest of dens. </p>

[piro]

<cite>steelblueangel wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>you guys must have just been lucky with the rares, because I harvested last night needing pelts and roots for my tailor for over 4 hours and only got one rare. Looks the same to me for rare finds little and far between. </p><p>One thing I did notice though was that instead of getting more pelts instead of meat like the update stated we would I got tons of meat and fewer pelts for my time; hence, the four hours of harvesting to get enough pelts to grind out my levels. Devs please look at the meat vs pelt harvest ratio since meats are still the highest percent in the harvest of dens. </p></blockquote> lol i totally agree with ya was harvesting for about 3 hours and got 1 pelt and one metal <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> wish i had that kinda luck, like my wife who harvested 12 corals in about 2 and half hours......... i got [Removed for Content] at her lol <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Lord_Xyr]

<cite>steelblueangel wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>One thing I did notice though was that instead of getting more pelts instead of meat like the update stated we would I got tons of meat and fewer pelts for my time; hence, the four hours of harvesting to get enough pelts to grind out my levels. Devs please look at the meat vs pelt harvest ratio since meats are still the highest percent in the harvest of dens. </p></blockquote>I noticed this as well. It looks like the adjustment was made in the wrong direction. Increased meats instead of pelts.

[ashen1973]

i've spent 2 or 3 hours harvesting today (metal/stone nodes and wood nodes mainly) Got a lot more metal/stone rares than i would normally expect, about the same wood as i would normally get But not one scintillating item or osseus lumber

[Rqron]

I also was harvesting last night and found out something about this "streak of rares" Harvesting with my lower characters who are not all up to date in harvesting I.e 150 / 165 and harvesting in a lower and or equal zone did NOT result in any extra rares. Using my maxed out lvl 70 character resulted in a higher rate for wood soft metal regular metal gems and roots..not any more for pelts (what I really was looking for my tailor) and I had tons of meat and a lot less pelts then normal. The ratio of loams seemed about the same, rare to none but then I am an alchemist and did not expect anything different I am used to finding more loams with my tailor than with my jeweler or alchemist. The ratio of imbuing items seemed a little lower then regular and none of the so elusive rare root that was  to drop from the bushes. Whatever happened was happening in a strange way as I had harvested without any higher rate for about 3 hours and then from one minute to the next I had 6 rough ruby from 2 nodes... it  blew me away.... and it stayed at an high lvl until about 11:45 eastern time when it started to slow down a little..but maybe that was because by then every farmer you can imagine was out there harvesting and it was actually more work looking for a node then just going to bed.   Serious people I never knew there where that many farmers. If harvesting rares stays at this elevated lvl I can see the market and prices on the broker to come down by quite a bit for rares and for items made from rares...a good thing for buyers, a bad thing for the person that goes out harvesting and is used to sell at a high profit. It will be interesting to see what way the whole thing will play out.

[Jesdyr]

Rqron wrote: <blockquote> Harvesting with my lower characters who are not all up to date in harvesting I.e 150 / 165 and harvesting in a lower and or equal zone did NOT result in any extra rares. </blockquote> Actually .. when I am not at 100% I fail to harvest anything often untill I get the skill back to 100%. The same goes for crafting without being at 100% possible skill. You tend to fail much more than you do if you are at 100% possible. This has always seemed broken to me.

[Aurumn]

<p>Harvested last night for about an hour in EL and came back with about 5 rares (a pelt, 3 roots and a soft metal) and a bout 8 imbue items. The night before (monday) I harvested for about 1.5 hours in TS  and EL with about 6 rares (2 steel, 1 stone, 2 root, and a soft metal) and about 10 imbue items. Clearcutting an area once or twice seemed to get the ball rolling. Also, I noticed the following drop rates;</p><p>Dens: 2 meat to 1 pelt</p><p>Ore: 2 loam to 1 cluster in TS... about 3:1 in EL</p><p>Everything else was about 1:1 for whatever the node would drop with a rather generous (imo) sprinkling of imbues.</p><p>Also, now that the bushes drop rare roots I'm a little less prone to complain about how they seem to cover the land like kudzu most days. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> My only complaint is I haven't harvested a rare wood in about a month. Despite always clear cutting when there's nobody else in the same area. The RNG seems to hate me that way. <img src="/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>**edit: The irony is that my main is a carpenter.**</p>

[aardda]

<p>I went and did a bit of harvesting this evening and came away with 2 figwort roots in under an hour, both coming from a 10 common + rare pull.</p><p>Gave up after a while due to the 5 level 70's swarming around permafrost cherrypicking the ore. Normally i clear everything when i'm on my own, but as i also have to watch for agro, i wasn't about to clear it just so one of them could swoop in on their carpet and get the good stuff.</p>

[DeathRider69]

I had similar luck.  In about an hour of harvesting I have 3 rare T6 pelts, 4 T6 roots, 1 Ebony, and evidently I got a Xenogite cluster as well, but did not notice.  I can cofirm getting rare roots from shrubs though.  I get 2 of the 3 from the shrubs.  But I remember it being this way when the increased the quantity from 1 per hit to 1-5 per hit.  I know I loaded up with T4 rares during that period of time.

[EomerFarst]

<p>I actually hope these changes are intended.</p><p>I went to Fear Island with +20  harvesting tool and goot  4 rares in few hours.  It made the time spent fun.</p><p>Harvesting should be fun and not some 5 hr mining session to get a Moonstone.</p>

[Valdaglerion]

<p>Well, yes of course there is the fun factor but when rares are no longer rares the prices will drop. between last night and this morning I have noticed many rare prices on our server experiencing 40-70% price drops, especially root rares.</p>

[Off]

It's about time a few more rares drop...400 items and 2 rares is a bit of a nuisance at times.  It doesn't always happen like that, sometimes I get more, sometimes I'll harvest for 4 hours and not see a single rare item.  Even if it's just a fluke, I'm not complaining.

[Spyrit]

<p>I hope that this is just a temporary bug.</p><p>I have no issue at all with a change to drop rates but SOE has to do so slowly so they do stuff up the economy. More rares will drive prices down and maybe drive some of the farmers away but to do so by stealth is a huge smack in the face to any of the existing TS'ers that have worked hard on there craft. I don't have a 70 tailor but I can imagine any Tailor that has a lot of stock on the broker now will not be happy seeing there hard work go down the drain as rare roots drop 40% - 70%. I have 5 x 70 crafters and to keep sales ticking over you have to have lots of stock up and it has to be priced well. The days are gone where stuff will sell for double the rare cost.</p><p>I guess we will just have to wait and see .......</p>

[Raveller]

Spyrit@Najena wrote: <blockquote><p>I hope that this is just a temporary bug.</p><p>I have no issue at all with a change to drop rates but SOE has to do so slowly so they do stuff up the economy. More rares will drive prices down and maybe drive some of the farmers away but to do so by stealth is a huge smack in the face to any of the existing TS'ers that have worked hard on there craft. I don't have a 70 tailor but I can imagine any Tailor that has a lot of stock on the broker now will not be happy seeing there hard work go down the drain as rare roots drop 40% - 70%. I have 5 x 70 crafters and to keep sales ticking over you have to have lots of stock up and it has to be priced well. The days are gone where stuff will sell for double the rare cost.</p><p>I guess we will just have to wait and see .......</p></blockquote>That's just sad. They maybe might have done something right (increasing the chance of harvesting a rare) and someone has to whine about it.

[petrov26]

On the surface increasing the rare drop rate seems like a good idea but maybe not this much - I got a crazy amount of them tonight in around an hour and a half of harvesting. I gotta think this is a mistake but who knows?

[Spyrit]

<cite>Raveller wrote:</cite><blockquote>Spyrit@Najena wrote: <blockquote><p>I hope that this is just a temporary bug.</p><p>I have no issue at all with a change to drop rates but SOE has to do so slowly so they do stuff up the economy. More rares will drive prices down and maybe drive some of the farmers away but to do so by stealth is a huge smack in the face to any of the existing TS'ers that have worked hard on there craft. I don't have a 70 tailor but I can imagine any Tailor that has a lot of stock on the broker now will not be happy seeing there hard work go down the drain as rare roots drop 40% - 70%. I have 5 x 70 crafters and to keep sales ticking over you have to have lots of stock up and it has to be priced well. The days are gone where stuff will sell for double the rare cost.</p><p>I guess we will just have to wait and see .......</p></blockquote>That's just sad. They maybe might have done something right (increasing the chance of harvesting a rare) and someone has to whine about it. </blockquote><p>lol, some of us put a lot of time and effort into our tradeskill and would not like to see that time go to waste. I am guessing that you are do not have a tailor with a broker box full of rare combines.</p><p>Anyway, if you read my post again you will see that I do not have an issue with increasing the chance of a rare drop as it may stop a lot of the farming for RL money. I was saying that if a major change to drop rates has happened the community should have been warned. </p><p>Again, I hope that this is a just a temporary bug. </p>

[Raveller]

Spyrit@Najena wrote: <blockquote> <p>lol, some of us put a lot of time and effort into our tradeskill and would not like to see that time go to waste. </p> </blockquote>Time, yes. Effort, no. It's a game, not a career. Increased rare harvesting rate = doubleplus good.

[Spyrit]

<cite>Raveller wrote:</cite><blockquote>Spyrit@Najena wrote: <blockquote> <p>lol, some of us put a lot of time and effort into our tradeskill and would not like to see that time go to waste. </p> </blockquote>Time, yes. Effort, no. It's a game, not a career. Increased rare harvesting rate = doubleplus good. </blockquote><p>hmmm...</p><p>Who said it was a career? and is it not possible to put effort into a game? </p><p>Again, re-read the thread. You are totally missing the point. Like it or not, EQ2 has an economy, an overnight large increase in drop rates for rares will have a large impact on it and upset a lot of players who have put time and <b>effort</b> into it. I agree, to use your words "increased rare harvesting rate = doupleplus good" but if it happens by stealth people will get upset. </p>

[Syndic]

Spyrit@Najena wrote: <blockquote><cite>Raveller wrote:</cite><blockquote>Spyrit@Najena wrote: <blockquote> <p>lol, some of us put a lot of time and effort into our tradeskill and would not like to see that time go to waste. </p> </blockquote>Time, yes. Effort, no. It's a game, not a career. Increased rare harvesting rate = doubleplus good. </blockquote><p>hmmm...</p><p>Who said it was a career? and is it not possible to put effort into a game? </p><p>Again, re-read the thread. You are totally missing the point. Like it or not, EQ2 has an economy, an overnight large increase in drop rates for rares will have a large impact on it and upset a lot of players who have put time and <b>effort</b> into it. I agree, to use your words "increased rare harvesting rate = doupleplus good" but if it happens by stealth people will get upset. </p></blockquote> You could look at it the other way also.  If they had have warned you what would you do about it?  I know if I was a person wanting to buy something made with a rare and noticed this change coming I would have waiting until afterwards to see the price drop.  So just think those sales you've had over the last few weeks most likely wouldn't have happened if we were "warned".  These changes affect the buyer as well as the seller, don't you just kick yourself everytime you buy something only to see it cheaper the next day.

[Spyrit]

<p>/agree</p><p>That why I said in my first post;</p><p><i>I have no issue at all with a change to drop rates but SOE has to do so <b>slowly</b> so they do stuff up the economy. </i></p><p>I am not sure I would use the term "Increased rare harvesting rate = doubleplus good" but I have no issue with an increased drop rate as long as it is slowly implemented so it does not have a noticable impact on the economy.</p><p>The point about letting the community know is more to tell us if this is a glitch or a permanent change. If it is just a glitch, no worries crafters can just ride it out. If it is a permanent change again just let us know so we can adjust our prices and get on with the game.</p>

[FoxRiverRanger]

If this is an intended change to the rate of rare harvesting, it does not bode well for the developers intention of improving Mastercrafted itemization when the T8 expansion comes out. 

[denmom]

One thing... How many of you harvesting are doing so with L70 max skilled toons? If I recall right, that meant you'd have better odds and chances at finding rares than someone who isn't, be in your own tier and lower. Toons with their skills maxed are to have better odds and chances at finding rares for the tier they're in. How many times has Calthine and others stated that harvesting rares is affected by one's skill in and over a level? Seems to me as tho it's all "working as intended" and not a bug.

[ashen1973]

<cite>denmom wrote:</cite><blockquote>One thing... How many of you harvesting are doing so with L70 max skilled toons? If I recall right, that meant you'd have better odds and chances at finding rares than someone who isn't, be in your own tier and lower. Toons with their skills maxed are to have better odds and chances at finding rares for the tier they're in. How many times has Calthine and others stated that harvesting rares is affected by one's skill in and over a level? Seems to me as tho it's all "working as intended" and not a bug. </blockquote>I was harvesting with a lvl70 toon with maxed harvesting skills. But I was also harvesting with max skills before the latest GU on a regular basis, and in the same places. I have just spent another couple of hours harvesting, and, just the same as yesterday, I found far more rare metals and stones and about the same amount of rare wood as I would have expected pre-GU. In the 2 days since the GU, I have found just one scintillating material and one osseuss lumber, this is a huge decrease in what I would have expected in the past. A couple of guildemates have also been out harvesting in multiple tiers and have been recieving high amounts of rares also. (well, seems a bit much to call them rares now, maybe 'slightly uncommons <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)

[Beebl]

<p>Last night (wed night) a level 70 guildmate of mine went harvesting. In one hour she got 11 rares & 1 Lambent Material.. Another guildmate got 19 rares in 2.5 hours. Most of their luck was in Teir 6 harvesting gems, cluster, and loams. Not many pelts, roots, or wood.</p><p> I'm all for making the rares a little better then they were in T6 since the last patch.. but 11 rares in 1 hour? They are no longer rare.. they are uncommon.</p><p> On the everfrost server we have the normal characters that spend all night doing nothing but harvesting (im sure they are bots or something... can't prove anything) But in the last few nights they post 40-50 rares from one night harvesting, something has to be wrong.</p>

[hisawat]

Well, I did harvesting a little bit.  I got a lot of rares.  I think they are not rare anymore.  We should call them uncommon instead.  I think deflation is coming soon, which means adventurers are happy, but a lot of tradeskillers are not.  I think price difference between Fabled and mastercrafted will go wider too.  IMO, I had never thought we lacked rares (Maybe a little bit of loams).  I hope this change will not decrease our interests in TS.

[Figment_]

<p>I too had some luck harvesting last night,  There is most likely some sort of change, as the RNG has always been a little light on the rares to me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> I was thinking that the rare drop rate on the higher tiers was a god thing, because of the new tier we will be getting in Nov.  </p><p> This way, once t8 is implemented, it will have the same drop rate about as tier 7 did before this patch.  That could be a good thing for those of us who will be levelling up through the tier ASAP. </p>

[VolgaDark]

<p>Wow and totally not fair lol. </p><p>This proved that I am cursed when it comes to rares .... Yep .. I have this whole conspiracy theory now, it even includes black helicopters hovering on the dark side of busted up Luclin. Hehe</p><p>But seriously ... last night, about hour and half harvesting and nada.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It's true it was t-6 harvesting and for some weird reason I've always had more luck with t-7 then t-6 or even t-5.... But still, I should have gotten something <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> yep! I'm definitely cursed lol</p>

[ashen1973]

<p>definatly a change in rates here</p><p>just spent an hour harvesting fear-tainted isle</p><p>got 5 acrylia, 4 moonstone, 2 ebony and 3 scint material.</p><p>This does seem like far to many rares  (or slightly uncommons) to be pulling in that time frame and is definetly not a good thing for the crafting community.</p>

[denmom]

What's starting to really be annoying are those buying low and selling stupidly high. Ruby on Unrest went frm 60g to 1p and higher in the span of an hour.  Rhodium shot up to 90g.  T5s the prices of T7s.  <img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I hope this "bug" or whatever you want to call it holds out for a bit longer...I and guildees have a few alts to go harvesting for and to outfit. <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Jesdyr]

<cite>denmom wrote:</cite><blockquote> on Unrest </blockquote> Yah .. we have a few people who love to drive up prices. I would really love to know what is going on here. If this was changed intentionally, great .. but honestly the rare rate is now a little too high. Still I wouldnt mind seeing it stay this way <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Being a carpenter.. Anything that makes rares easier/cheaper to get is a good thing. We use more types of rares in higher qty than any of the crafters.

[Rqron]

wow 90G...that is nothing..and of course it is all relative As an example. I have a character on one of the european german servers and cobalt there used to sell for 25-35G when at the same time cobalt on the AB server was 1P++. I.M.H.O. this added level of drops may bring prices on servers like AB back into the range where others where. Not that I like it, I will loose as much with my crafting characters as everyone else but feysteel for a plat+ and ebon even more being the "norm" far too long on this server. It was coming to a point where new players..and I mean new not low lvl who has a higher lvl alt to support it, new players where not able to buy any crafted items that where worth using until they hit 25 or 30 even then it was hard....a imbued curboilli chest piece for lvl22 at 60G? with 7 pieces needed at an ""average"" price of about 50G that is ~3P just for a crafted outfit?  And this does not even include jewelery and other needs. Now, after those rares drop at an higher rate the same chest piece goes for 14G and less and the whole outfit for less than one plat...and if the rates of drops stay this way it probably goes down even more into a range where everyone not just alts can afford handcrafted. This will give many players the first opportunity to get a good outfit at a fair price...and the same is true for everything else.  Now for people buying low and selling high..that is a speculation that the whole thing is a fluke and will go away. If it stays this will regulate itself and those people will do like speculators in the stock marked..they will end up dumping it or the combines they made. If the changes are permanent, the only losers here will be farmers everyone else will gain and in the long run economy after going through a short swing will regulate itself..and yes you will loose some in the short run especially if you where lazy and ""bought "' your rare instead harvesting it. But think about it...once farmers loose interest because prices are low and they can't make enough RL profit from it they will stop farming for rares (or at least greatly reduce it)...the amount of rares on the market will be reduced by this amount (have seen a known farmer yesterday with 56 oak roots at a price that was 30% higher then others). Once the farmers and the rares they have are gone the prices will adjust again and stabilize..at a lower lvl of course but they will. The average player harvests to get his skills up NOT for crafting..don't believe me? Spend an hour in the center of your city or any of the ""hubs"" like docks in TS..there inspect every player that goes past you and look at the adventure and tradeskill lvl. I don't have any statistics but I would bet that less then 25-30% of active players craft. And maybe just maybe, the lower prices for rares will entice others to start crafting. High lvl players that harvest only to sell on the market and don't harvest for crafting will go the same way farmers go.. Some will still do it because it IS a good way to support adventuring and pays for the repair bills but a lot of them will find they make more coin selling loot. Overall I see prices for everything to come down even the  high prices for master1. If adept3s are cheap why bother with a master1 that cost anywhere from 2P to 60P? A lot of times the gain of a master1 over a adept3 is hardly anything and really not worth buying unless you want to raid or made it your goal to have all master1 spells. The average player can live without them and use adept3s. If nobody buys them the price will come down. That is how the economy works. So all in all I think we will survive this and be in a much better shape after it.....I do hope this change is permanent. R'ron

[Illmarr]

<cite>denmom wrote:</cite><blockquote>One thing... How many of you harvesting are doing so with L70 max skilled toons? If I recall right, that meant you'd have better odds and chances at finding rares than someone who isn't, be in your own tier and lower. Toons with their skills maxed are to have better odds and chances at finding rares for the tier they're in. How many times has Calthine and others stated that harvesting rares is affected by one's skill in and over a level? Seems to me as tho it's all "working as intended" and not a bug. </blockquote> I was in TS harvesting with a level 29 SK. In a 15-20 minute period I hit a Dandelion Fiber, a Jasper, a Mallable Loam, a Steel Cluster and two Paladium Maxed for level, but same level as the tier she was harvesting

[Rast]

<p>I can tell you last night, I pulled 2 rhodium clusters off of one node (t4 with a lvl 35 brigand, not even skill maxed at the time).  I had 2 'jackpot' pulls (one for one of the above mentioned Rhodiums and the other was an opal) and pulled 5 rares, while hunting, in about 30 minutes.</p><p>Though in the 30 minutes today at lunch (maybe closer to 45), I only got 3 rares, so it's calmed down some <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Lady_Elf]

Ilmaaaaah@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote><cite>denmom wrote:</cite><blockquote>One thing... How many of you harvesting are doing so with L70 max skilled toons? If I recall right, that meant you'd have better odds and chances at finding rares than someone who isn't, be in your own tier and lower. Toons with their skills maxed are to have better odds and chances at finding rares for the tier they're in. How many times has Calthine and others stated that harvesting rares is affected by one's skill in and over a level? Seems to me as tho it's all "working as intended" and not a bug. </blockquote> I was in TS harvesting with a level 29 SK. In a 15-20 minute period I hit a Dandelion Fiber, a Jasper, a Mallable Loam, a Steel Cluster and two Paladium Maxed for level, but same level as the tier she was harvesting</blockquote>Same night harvesting in  Sinking Sands on a t6 adventure/crafting toon  ended up with 3 cobalt, 1 alkali, and 2 pearls in 1.5 hours harvesting. Then last night on my t7 crafter, just running and  harvesting from NQ gates to TS  found 2 blackened iron, 1 sisal, 2 coral, and 1 bone. In .5 hour in TS found 3 jasper, 1 palladium, and 2 fir. I don't sell rares though. I give them to my crafters to make stuff for alts and guildies or stick the ones i don't need in guild bank for  guildies to use.

[Domino]

Heya folks, since I'm off at fan faire happening this weekend, I will take a closer look next week when I'm back.  I did check up on a number of people who reported high rare rates before I left (and yes, if we know your name and server we can see everything you harvested), not to mention doing a lot of harvesting myself, and so far I haven't seen anything hugely abnormal.  For example, sure, 10 rares in a night sounds like a lot, but if the person posting that harvested 2000 things in that session, that's still only 0.5%, which doesn't sound quite as big when you put it in perspective.  It can be hard to distinguish between real changes and the RNG being moody. A classic example of this: Aurumn@Unrest wrote: <blockquote><p>Harvested last night for about an hour in EL and came back with about 5 rares (a pelt, 3 roots and a soft metal) and a bout 8 imbue items. The night before (monday) I harvested for about 1.5 hours in TS  and EL with about 6 rares (2 steel, 1 stone, 2 root, and a soft metal) and about 10 imbue items. </p></blockquote>Monday was BEFORE the Game Update ... so this particular harvester in fact doesn't seem to be seeing any change between the before and after.  What should have happened with this GU in regards to harvesting: <ul><li>a greater chance of loam/ore, and metal/gem rares.  Previously, those 2-rare nodes were giving 1 rare per X amount of time, like other nodes.  This actually means that compared to a 1-rare node like roots, you had only half as much chance of getting a particular rare from a 2-rare node.  The node was dropping rares at the same rate, but since your chances were divided between two different rares, they were less common.  So, the rate of rares from 2-rare nodes was bumped up a bit to compensate for this.</li><li>if you get a single item harvest from a trapping node, you have twice the chance of it being a pelt than a meat.  For 3 and 5 item harvests they're equal chances (which means more meats overall).  This was intended to give pelts a small but not overwhelming boost in drop rate.</li><li>rare roots will be more common of course, since they are now dropping from shrubs.  When you consider how many shrubs you previously would harvest that could give you no rare, that's a significant portion of harvesting time that simply couldn't drop a rare.  So, yes, rare roots would be more plentiful now and just the fact that the shrubs now have a rare would make the overall rare drop rate go up per harvesting session (if you're clearing everything), even if the % chance of getting a rare had actually gone down (it didn't, but just an example).</li><li>imbue stuff got a bit less common.  Really, people seem to have stockpiles of the stuff.  I know I still have the pre-revision extracts in my bank that I've never used and I regularly destroy the imbue harvests.  It's still not rare rare, but it's just a little bit less common.  So, if you're seeing a higher % of rares to imbues, that may be as much because of the added roots + fewer imbues, than it is actually most rares being more common. </li><li>the higher-end harvesting results are a bit more accessible to people now than they were before.  As dedicated harvesters are probably aware, as your harvesting skill increases, you have a higher chance of getting a rare.  With this update the skill requirements were lowered a little so that you now have a chance (a small one) of getting the better results before you actually outlevel the tier you're harvesting in (previously you had to entirely outlevel the tier by quite a lot before you could even have a 1% chance of getting the best rare chances -- which seemed to be a bit unfair to people actually crafting in that tier).  So, again, this doesn't necessarily make rares more common than they were before but it does mean harvesters of a lower level are getting slightly better results than they were before.</li></ul>Anyway, that's the summary.  I'll see y'all next week, and if you're coming to the fan faire, stop by and say hello!  I'll be hanging out in the Legends Lounge from 3-4 on Friday, and probably various other times too.  And if you're not coming to the fan faire, enjoy the new furniture and stay out of trouble!  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Spyrit]

<p>Edit: must have posted as Domino did, thanks for giving us an update. </p><p>No doubt in my mind that there has been a significant change. Can we get a quick "red name" comment before you guys run off to Fain Faire?</p><p>Prices on Najena have dropped a long way, even when you consider that there are a lot of people buying up thinking that they are getting a bargain. I have an active Sage and Jeweler, so I am looking at rare prices every day;</p><p>Prices not including broker fees</p><p>Rough Moonstoone were 55 - 60 now 45 - 50</p><p>Acrylia was 90 - 100 now 75 - 80</p><p>Spongy were 100 - 120 (200 a week ago) now 80 - 85 (I got 5 for 70 this morning).</p><p>If the new drop rate does not change back these prices will fall a lot more when people realise they are not getting a bargain and stop buying up in numbers. Either way it would be nice to know if it is just a glitch or a permanant change. anyone ??????</p>

[Spyrit]

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>What should have happened with this GU in regards to harvesting: <ul><li>a greater chance of loam/ore, and metal/gem rares.  Previously, those 2-rare nodes were giving 1 rare per X amount of time, like other nodes.  This actually means that compared to a 1-rare node like roots, you had only half as much chance of getting a particular rare from a 2-rare node.  The node was dropping rares at the same rate, but since your chances were divided between two different rares, they were less common.  So, the rate of rares from 2-rare nodes was bumped up a bit to compensate for this.</li></ul></blockquote><p>How big was the bump up Domino? </p><p>I guess that explains the dramatic drop in prices for Acrylia, Moonstone and Spongy. I guess I will have to jump out of the market and wait for the dust to settle. For those of us that have a ton of AD3's on the market (I have about 150) a major change in drop rates is going to really really hurt.</p><p>Please, please, please ... consider your Crafters when you make these changes. Happy to see the change, just make the changes very slowly.</p>

[Captain_Xpendab]

Sounds like they made a much needed adjustment. I always thought it was a little strange that the rare hard metals needed by 14 classes where harder to get than the rare pelts needed by 4. I had wondered if that was intended and what the reasoning behind it was. Prices going down is just a market correction that's long overdue.

[Nuhus]

I don't mind a bump up, but I think it needs a little bumping back. Reports I've heard and what I've seen, I think its a bit much.

[Jagged Halo]

the last 2 days i have harvested jus over 400 nodes the rares i got are 22 spongy loams 14 xegonite 3 moonstone 3 acylia i first knew simething was screwy when i went to hatvest in FE i got 3 runy and 2 rhodium fo the first 2 nodes the drop rates are screwed up big time

[Zard]

<p>Today in EL, I plucked two Severed Oak and one Glimmering Material <b>from the same node!  <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></b></p>

[Tremelle]

I swear the number of nodes and the number of rares has increased. On an hour run my main minded at least  six or seven rares, including 2 augment leathers  and ebon.

[Deson]

Feel free to check my harvesting info. I've been getting a rare what seems like every 5 nodes max. What makes me wary is the effect such a free and cheap flow of rares is going to do to adventuring. If my experience on my SK is any indication, I can harvest to fully rare equip a character in a few hours. The slow flow kept drops viable and made not having adept 3's acceptable at all but the highest levels of play. Now... well, I guess it's wait and see. My carp is happy though!

[Lishara]

<p>Well... Something is going on, but I'm not entirely sure what.  I took my main out to harvest T6.  She harvested for a couple hours and got 1 rare.  Normal for her, her luck sucks.  Bad.</p><p>Took my alt out to EL to skill her up to LS harvesting.  Got about 11 rares in 1 1/2 hours.  Took her to Lavastorm after her skills were high enough got about 6 rares in 10 minutes!!  Now I don't know if it's just that my little rat is lucky or what, but I saw no difference on the main. </p>

[Captain_Xpendab]

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>Feel free to check my harvesting info. I've been getting a rare what seems like every 5 nodes max. What makes me wary is the effect such a free and cheap flow of rares is going to do to adventuring. If my experience on my SK is any indication, <u><b>I can harvest to fully rare equip a character in a few hours.</b></u> The slow flow kept drops viable and made not having adept 3's acceptable at all but the highest levels of play. Now... well, I guess it's wait and see. My carp is happy though!</blockquote>This sort of goes with what I was saying earlier, leather wearers have been able to do that for ages. I'd love to hear from tailors if the availability of rare pelts has hurt them. I'm thinking this could end up being a small boon for armorsmiths and weaponsmiths, giving them more chances to craft and gain XP from the advanced books, and possibly getting more from selling multiple pieces than waiting for that big single item sale. Edited to Add: And personally I haven't seen rares raining from the sky, but then my harvesting trip in EL today was fairly short.

[Deson]

<cite>Captain_Xpendable wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>Feel free to check my harvesting info. I've been getting a rare what seems like every 5 nodes max. What makes me wary is the effect such a free and cheap flow of rares is going to do to adventuring. If my experience on my SK is any indication, <u><b>I can harvest to fully rare equip a character in a few hours.</b></u> The slow flow kept drops viable and made not having adept 3's acceptable at all but the highest levels of play. Now... well, I guess it's wait and see. My carp is happy though!</blockquote>This sort of goes with what I was saying earlier, leather wearers have been able to do that for ages. I'd love to hear from tailors if the availability of rare pelts has hurt them. I'm thinking this could end up being a small boon for armorsmiths and weaponsmiths, giving them more chances to craft and gain XP from the advanced books, and possibly getting more from selling multiple pieces than waiting for that big single item sale. Edited to Add: And personally I haven't seen rares raining from the sky, but then my harvesting trip in EL today was fairly short. </blockquote>Well, to be fair, all my guys are 70 crafter. The current one I'm playing/harvesting on is at the top end of the tier with tinkered tools. Actually in game right now though and that rare per 5 nodes seems a low-end estimate. To clarify though,given the state of crafted I appreciate having easier access to goods people want.It seems a given handcrafted won't be greatly improved so this is a great compromise. Mastercrafted in lower tiers is still on par with legendary/fabled it feels like and I'd actually argue overpowered but, it's lower tiers and the range is small enough to not be overly concerned with it.Given my feelings it should be solid starter/mid dungeon gear, I'm hardpressed to argue against it being more common. Game balance though, risks being bumped up because of it and that's what has me wary; everyone running around in adept 3 minimum means the game is either trivial or balanced for it. Back to the rares though, I'm hoping RoK has a new level of crafted in it(acquired by dedicated tradeskilling of course) that is above the current MC gear and requires a drop and these new "uncommons". Otherwise... I  don't know. I read Domino's part in the "State of the Game" article and it looks like it but still, I have to see to believe. It's fine as is if there is more to come.

[Jrral]

I'm enjoying the harvest changes. I took my main out to Feerrott tonight for an hour. Managed 2 stacks of roots and change (before I'd be hard-pressed to get 1 stack in that hour), and pulled 10 rares plus 5 imbues. Including 2 ebon. That's more T5 rares, and more ebon, in 1 hour than I've pulled in the whole time that I've been able to harvest T5. As someone trying to equip characters, this makes me really really happy. So do the declining broker prices. I see people trying to prop up the prices, but I figure that won't last with rares coming in at the rate they are (speculators, meet cash-flow accounting). As a crafter it's also good news. Whatever Domino did seems to have shaken up the results enough that I'm actually now getting a decent number of 3 and 5 pulls on my main. That makes it easier for me to get commons for crafting. And more rares and lower prices on the broker mean more people able to find or afford rares for Ad3s, which means more business for crafters. The only crafters I see having a problem are the ones who buy their rares on the broker and expect to base their profit on their cost of materials. But then that's always been a high-risk avenue, and I don't personally know any crafters who take it. All the ones I know work mostly on direct commission where they expect the customer to supply the rares, which to me seems a lot more sensible.

[Pitt Hammerfi]

<p>i harvested for about 30 mins the other night and got nothing, so meh whatever floats your boat, if you spend the time you should get the rewards</p><p>personally i would rather be dirt napping in raids than staring at rocks all day <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Rattfa]

I harvested in TS for 30 minutes lastnight and got 5 malleable loam...including 3 loams in 3 hits (from 2 different nodes) I also got a buttload of rares lastnight, but have yet to see a single hard metal cluster (steel, feysteel etc) =/

[Ruut Li]

<p>I can understand the need to chase popularity points since its important to some people, but a little warning about this not so small change would of given more points actually. I am going to lose a lot of money on the several ad3 spells I will have to sell for less than what I bought the rares for. Thx...<img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Back to making money off of shineys.</p>

[HemoragiK]

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>Heya folks, since I'm off at fan faire happening this weekend, I will take a closer look next week when I'm back.  I did check up on a number of people who reported high rare rates before I left (and yes, if we know your name and server we can see everything you harvested), not to mention doing a lot of harvesting myself, and so far I haven't seen anything hugely abnormal.  For example, sure, 10 rares in a night sounds like a lot, but if the person posting that harvested 2000 things in that session, that's still only 0.5%, which doesn't sound quite as big when you put it in perspective.  It can be hard to distinguish between real changes and the RNG being moody. A classic example of this: Aurumn@Unrest wrote: <blockquote><p>Harvested last night for about an hour in EL and came back with about 5 rares (a pelt, 3 roots and a soft metal) and a bout 8 imbue items. The night before (monday) I harvested for about 1.5 hours in TS  and EL with about 6 rares (2 steel, 1 stone, 2 root, and a soft metal) and about 10 imbue items. </p></blockquote>Monday was BEFORE the Game Update ... so this particular harvester in fact doesn't seem to be seeing any change between the before and after.  What should have happened with this GU in regards to harvesting: <ul><li>a greater chance of loam/ore, and metal/gem rares.  Previously, those 2-rare nodes were giving 1 rare per X amount of time, like other nodes.  This actually means that compared to a 1-rare node like roots, you had only half as much chance of getting a particular rare from a 2-rare node.  The node was dropping rares at the same rate, but since your chances were divided between two different rares, they were less common.  So, the rate of rares from 2-rare nodes was bumped up a bit to compensate for this.</li><li>if you get a single item harvest from a trapping node, you have twice the chance of it being a pelt than a meat.  For 3 and 5 item harvests they're equal chances (which means more meats overall).  This was intended to give pelts a small but not overwhelming boost in drop rate.</li><li>rare roots will be more common of course, since they are now dropping from shrubs.  When you consider how many shrubs you previously would harvest that could give you no rare, that's a significant portion of harvesting time that simply couldn't drop a rare.  So, yes, rare roots would be more plentiful now and just the fact that the shrubs now have a rare would make the overall rare drop rate go up per harvesting session (if you're clearing everything), even if the % chance of getting a rare had actually gone down (it didn't, but just an example).</li><li>imbue stuff got a bit less common.  Really, people seem to have stockpiles of the stuff.  I know I still have the pre-revision extracts in my bank that I've never used and I regularly destroy the imbue harvests.  It's still not rare rare, but it's just a little bit less common.  So, if you're seeing a higher % of rares to imbues, that may be as much because of the added roots + fewer imbues, than it is actually most rares being more common. </li><li>the higher-end harvesting results are a bit more accessible to people now than they were before.  As dedicated harvesters are probably aware, as your harvesting skill increases, you have a higher chance of getting a rare.  With this update the skill requirements were lowered a little so that you now have a chance (a small one) of getting the better results before you actually outlevel the tier you're harvesting in (previously you had to entirely outlevel the tier by quite a lot before you could even have a 1% chance of getting the best rare chances -- which seemed to be a bit unfair to people actually crafting in that tier).  So, again, this doesn't necessarily make rares more common than they were before but it does mean harvesters of a lower level are getting slightly better results than they were before.</li></ul>Anyway, that's the summary.  I'll see y'all next week, and if you're coming to the fan faire, stop by and say hello!  I'll be hanging out in the Legends Lounge from 3-4 on Friday, and probably various other times too.  And if you're not coming to the fan faire, enjoy the new furniture and stay out of trouble!  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>All I have to say is there is a definite increase in rares. Every time I harvest I get at least 10-12 rares an hour. I have always put a lot of time into harvesting, as selling raw mats is how I make a lot of my plat (although I spend it as fast as I make it <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ). Up until GU 37 I have *never* had this amount of rares.  Also note that there are only certain areas I harvest in on a regular basis. Since GU 37, I have only been harvesting in EL and Zek. Also note that because of the higher rare drop rate that most everyone experiencing when harvesting t3-4, the broker is becoming flooded with them and hence the price is dropping.  For instance, severed oak on my server was upwards of 30G on average with no more than about a page and a half listed. Now it's downwards of 18G and there are five pages listed (something I personally have never seen in terms of quantity). As well, +10 Mat with rare drops have also increased.

[Jesdyr]

This explains it. Thanks Domino for the information. It would have been nice if the patch notes actually listed all the changes. I know some of it was, but there wasnt anything about rare rates changing. (or ctrl-mousewheel to adjust height).

[Wrapye]

I was harvesting in Lavastorm with one of my level 70s that has overclocked harvesting tools for about 30-40 minutes this morning.  I was getting about 4-5 loam harvests for every hard metal, and of the first three hard metal harvests, two were ebon. In total, after about an hour of harvesting:  2 ebon, 3 fused loam, 2 cedar, 2 rhodium, 2 rubies.  No rare roots and I wasn't harvesting pelts. Yikes. Harvesting in T7 zones with the same character netted nimbus roots from bushes, but no other rares (was harvesting ore, dens, roots and bushes).

[Lakaah]

I haven't done enough harvesting since the patch to comment on the current situation.. That said, IMO, I would be delighted to see more rares in T5 and up. Up til T5 I was able to find rares at what I felt was a reasonable rate (except steel/feysteel), but once I hit T5 and especially T6, its become way harder to find enough. I've harvested enough in Sinking Sands to level my jeweler to 60, carpenter to 57/58 (guesstimate, hes 53 with a ton of supply on hand), and stock wifey's provie with plenty of roots... yet I've found all of 3 Vanadium in that time, and 5 or 6 of the other rares. At any rate, I'd hope the 2x chance for rares from ore/stone nodes will stay, at minimum.

[Rast]

<p>Since Wednesday Night, I've been able to pull (in T4, since I'm harvesting for my 35 weaponsmith and this is between 2 character, one 70 level capped, and one 35 skill capped now).</p><p>4 Feysteel, 6 Ruthenium, 7 pelts, 0 loams (I did get one t6 one however), 3 oak roots, 1 severed Oak, 4 Rough Opals.  I think that is pretty inclusive (I may of missed one somewhere, so my appologies if I did).  This is probably over about 5-6 hours of harvesting (while the 35 was leveling some as well, since the wasps in EL are still agro to her).  That is definately up from what I'm used to getting.  Not that I'm complaining, I might actually put my brigand in Feysteel now, where as I wouldn't of before.</p>

[Kizee]

<p>They probally upped the chance at lower tiers.</p><p>I ran around t6 for about an hour last night and didn't get any rares.</p>

[kukubird]

lvl 70 - i harvested i think 32 rares t2........ and that was because i was also chatting.... Way too much...... Man I am tired.. but on one server today a guy had like 30+ of some rare for like 8g when a week before it was running like 30- 50 g week before..... You also have to think what affect this will have on the servers with the ***** cough ***** illegal farm teams that want to sell us all plat **** end cough <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ****** They will be pulling in stacks and stacks of the rares daily.... It will destroy the rare market and rare crafted market for normal players.... Telling yah I am already seeing 50 stacks of rares from one guy only 2 days after the rare drop increase... Anyways.... yes I bought em up... because if the rare drop rate isn't fixed.. think this will be the end of me playing..... Have like 14 crafters.....  If it is fixed..... well I have stacks of 50 rares at about 8% cost of the weeks before value lol NAYONE REMEMBER THE FIASCO WITH THE MASTERS DROPPING OFF EVERY NAMED ABOUT A YEAR OR SO AGO? Wish a little more thought and extrapolation would go into these things.. maybe even a gradual increase?  Feel bad for the people that had a lot of rares saved up and effectively got their value cut in like 1/8th. Luckily for me I wasn't one.

[Bloodfa]

<p>From a PvP tradeskiller point of view this is a boon.  So the prices of our wares drops.  Big deal.  Make it up in volume.  My Tailor, Weaponsmith, Woodworker and Jeweler are tickled pink.  My Provisioner's feeling somewhat ignored, but I told him to get back in the kitchen and make some more tea. </p><p>In PvP, the lower tiers are dominated by those that either <b>a:</b> have a tier 6 or tier 7 main feeding them plat, <b>b:</b> combat XP disabled toons farming newbies, or <b>c:</b> people buying illegal plat because they're getting rolled by <b>a</b> & <b>b</b>.  I know, I see it all the time.  My cousin just got back into the game after a two and a half year hiatus, and was like "What the hell have you gotten me into?  How's this balanced?  I need help!"  After farming Antonica for a whomping three hours with my main, something that can be accomplished by anyone under level 10 without fear of ganking, I had enough rares to buff him out.  Completely.  Mastercrafted blackened iron everything, and the loams to get him Adept III's for his next 6 levels.  A new toon can now spend a reasonable amount of time to get some damned good gear for next to nothing.  This will balance out the playing field quite a bit in the PvP game, and by making it tougher for twinks to one-shot greenies the ROI for level locking decreases.  It'll also make getting that PvP armor a little easier for the guys who don't have a sugarmomma.  Hence the eventual move into higher tiers, making for a broader base to sell from.  </p><p>If the change wasn't intended to be as sweeping and steep as it is, I'd ask the Devs to talk to their PvP Combat counterparts before making any further changes, at least to the PvP servers.  Ironically, this may have the unanticipated effect of balancing the game for newer and inexperienced players.  Telling someone who just spent 8 hours downloading the game, and 3 hours playing on the island & newbie sections to go out and harvest rares to gear up with a stunningly profitable return on investment will encourage people to do so, and maybe to even take up tradeskilling themselves.  But the old drop rates were not exactly leading new players to say "Wow, this is really paying off".  With this rate of drops, I'll take the hit to the prices gladly.  There are so many other things that make money to help offset the potential losses.  Remember, for those that do have the money to spend, they'll always be willing to buy MC'ed gear and Adept III's for transmuting.</p>

[Feanox]

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>From a PvP tradeskiller point of view this is a boon.  So the prices of our wares drops.  Big deal.  Make it up in volume.  My Tailor, Weaponsmith, Woodworker and Jeweler are tickled pink.  My Provisioner's feeling somewhat ignored, but I told him to get back in the kitchen and make some more tea. </p></blockquote><p>Not sure how it really is on a PvP server, but Armor, Clothes, Jewelry and especially Weapons move real slow on the broker on a non-PvP server.  Our guilds weapon smith, even being competative with prices barely moves any of his stock.  As an Armorer myself, even master crafted and imbued pieces which sell the most sell slow.  My point is, volume will not help make up the prices if people dont buy it.  Most of my created/grinding armor I just sacrifice to my altar of Brell anyway, because the stuff sells sooooo slow.  Brell really likes me now.  He has all sorts of pants.</p><p>People move though lower tier armor/weapons I think many even skip a tier and just wait it out.  When they reach an upper tier they are either getting drops, or have one set of armor they stick with and rarely ever need a new suit.</p><p>I dont mind the price lowering of the rares.  THOSE can be made up with volume for sure.  Just not the finished product itself.</p>

[Bloodfa]

<p>On a PvP server, it's all about "best gear for that tier".  Anything less increases the speed in which you lose a fight.  I'm sure I wouldn't be able to make 40 gold from selling a single prisine imbued silver ring of strength on PvE, but I'll move a full set of jewelry in T2 or T3 in a day or so, usually the whole set to the same toon.  Or 95 gold for a pristine imbued steel rapier.  I even throw a temper on mine most of the time for free. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>If it <i>is </i>going to be scaled back, I'd ask for a different ruleset for PvP servers, as it's certainly making the balancing act a little easier.  Or maybe just keep the numbers as-is for the lower tiers.  Just a couple of thoughts from a mind running on very little sleep and a whole lot of headache.</p>

[Rqron]

 I for one opt for SOE to keep the changes as they are. I am appalled by some of the me me me attitude displayed by some of the posters...""if it doesn't get fixed (meaning he can't continue to rip of people and make big profit...) I quit this game""...bahhh GOOD RIDDANCE to ya please delete the game from your computer NOW who the heck needs you around anyways. This  me, me, me  attitude is the mind set that turns away some of the new players and keeps plat farmers in business because of the high inflated prices. The average player finally has a chance to get a good outfit, good spells and do well....  <b>it is about time</b>. DEVs, PLEASE listen to the average player not to plat sellers and plat hungry few...keep it as it is at the current lvl.   Leave it as it is, and if the price comes down great and if the price for master crafted outfits  Adept3s and other  comes down all the better. They are blown out of proportions anyway...talking about inflation of prices just because someone spends less then 5 minutes on a combine ( harvested rare =0 fuel coin is ahhh let be generous 2-5G added raws=0 finished product = 1P+ for an adept3) (fun for doing it.priceles, otherwise you would not be playing this game right...or are you one of the plat selling outfit crafter.) there is something wrong with this.. Ahh I can hear the crying, we have worked hard to get to this lvl....fine I say..don't cry to me it is and was <b>your </b>choice to do so but ....don't forget...THIS IS A GAME.. and the name of the game is not "how do I make the most plat" it is about networking, finding friends and groups and having adventures TOGETHER. And yes I have seen my stack of rares plunge in value.. so what, it does not mater... I still am able to craft with them and enjoy doing so.  I have over the last 3 month harvested my butt of to get 26 alkali loams and gave most of those pesky cobalt clusters  to guildies and others. I need to make adept 3s for my wifes guardian. Alkali loam was close to 1P most of that time and now, it is easier to get and a lot cheaper ...so what, the only regret I have is that this great change was not implemented long time ago I could have done the set a bit earlier and had more time crafting other stuff or going out adventuring. NEVER forget, this GAME is called "everquest" not the "platquest".

[dartie]

<cite>Rqron wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> I for one opt for SOE to keep the changes as they are. I am appalled by some of the me me me attitude displayed by some of the posters...""if it doesn't get fixed (meaning he can't continue to rip of people and make big profit...) I quit this game""...bahhh GOOD RIDDANCE to ya please delete the game from your computer NOW who the heck needs you around anyways. This  me, me, me  attitude is the mind set that turns away some of the new players and keeps plat farmers in business because of the high inflated prices. </p><p><span style="color: #990000">Be as appalled as you like.  I missed the post to which you appear to be referring, but even our resident doom and gloom expert (Deson) ends his post by pointing out that his carpenter is happy. What I've seen from most folks who express concern is just that: a thoughtful expression of concern.  It's possible to be worried about rampant instability in an economy without being selfish, and many of the furrowed brows are furrowed in confusion, not anxiety about their own well being.  </span></p><p> The average player finally has a chance to get a good outfit, good spells and do well....  <b>it is about time</b>. </p><p><span style="color: #990000">What makes you so sure you're average?--or capable of speaking for the average player?  I think I'm pretty average too (I suppose we all do), and one of the things that hooked me on EQ2 was that my first player couldn't solo well after L35 because he was in crap gear.  Having to start over and play more carefully and figure out how to save up the money for crafted gear was part of the fun.  If you make the acquisition of good gear TOO easy, you don't have to worry about hurting crafters--you have to worry about losing the interest of players.  No matter how easy you want your gaming experience to be, I find it difficult to believe that you don't want some challenge.  Maybe your sense of how challenging it should be to get a set of m/c gear is accurate, but maybe not.  I have no way of knowing whether you are closer to the average than I am, but you don't speak for me. </span></p><p>DEVs, PLEASE listen to the average player not to plat sellers and plat hungry few...keep it as it is at the current lvl.</p><p><span style="color: #990000">There is an active thread in gameplay about how "dumbed down" the game is and how anyone who thinks that the buyback option from merchants must be "mentally challenged."  The implication is that the only reason I would want to be able to buy back an item I accidentally sold to a merchant is that I'm "mentally challenged."  The poster of that message can't seem to imagine that a person would ever have sold something accidentally due to lag--or that people who aren't "mentally challenged" occasionally click a mouse accidentally.  Wow, that's a nice reductive stance.  Yours seems equally reductive, since you suggest that the only reason a person might be opposed to the trivializing of mastercrafted gear would be greed.  </span></p><p> Leave it as it is, and if the price comes down great and if the price for master crafted outfits  Adept3s and other  comes down all the better. They are blown out of proportions anyway...talking about inflation of prices just because someone spends less then 5 minutes on a combine ( harvested rare =0 fuel coin is ahhh let be generous 2-5G added raws=0 finished product = 1P+ for an adept3) (fun for doing it.priceles, otherwise you would not be playing this game right...or are you one of the plat selling outfit crafter.) there is something wrong with this.. Ahh I can hear the crying, we have worked hard to get to this lvl....fine I say..don't cry to me it is and was <b>your </b>choice to do so but ....don't forget...THIS IS A GAME.. and the name of the game is not "how do I make the most plat" it is about networking, finding friends and groups and having adventures TOGETHER. </p><p><span style="color: #990000">Clearly, YOU define games as having something to do with togetherness.  Many of the rest of us define games as exercises in overcoming challenges.  Why not have the turtles on Noob Isle drop L70 fabled gear?  Why not be able to say to the quest giver, "I am ready to be L70 now please" and be instantly advanced to that level for the sake of "togetherness" with all the other L70s?  Both of those changes would have the effect of making all T1-T7 gear extremely affordable.  For some players (maybe even the average player), they would reduce the fun of the game.  But again, you've structured your argument so as to imply that anyone who thinks mastercrafted gear should be difficult to come by is a plat seller.</span></p><p> And yes I have seen my stack of rares plunge in value.. so what, it does not mater... I still am able to craft with them and enjoy doing so.  I have over the last 3 month harvested my butt of to get 26 alkali loams and gave most of those pesky cobalt clusters  to guildies and others. I need to make adept 3s for my wifes guardian. Alkali loam was close to 1P most of that time and now, it is easier to get and a lot cheaper ...so what, the only regret I have is that this great change was not implemented long time ago I could have done the set a bit earlier and had more time crafting other stuff or going out adventuring. </p><p><span style="color: #990000">I have some mastercrafted gear on the broker that has deteriorated in value as a consequence of the spike in rares.  Your "So what?" attitude is the only part of your post that I agree with.  It's SOE's game, and the devs can change it however they like.  I knew when I paid for the rares to make that m/c gear that the value of the rares and the gear itself was subject to sudden, unpredictable change.  I took my chances, and things didn't work out.  That's all part of the game. </span></p><p><span style="color: #990000">But what you seem to be incapable of imagining is that I am not concerned about the value of those particular items on the broker.  What I am concerned about is the fact that an overabundance of rares cheapens the value of mastercrafted gear.  Adventurers who spend a lot of time targeting T3 named for T3 fabled gear are going to complain that they could have easily bought an entire set of T3 m/c gear for next to nothing.  Then they will ask the devs to nerf m/c gear because it is so easy to come by.  The devs will look things over and decide that since it takes so very little effort to acquire a set of palladium jewelry and steel armor, the stats on both are way too high.  You think plentiful rares will lead to more time that you can spend crafting.  Maybe you will have more time, but if you follow your logic for just a couple of months, you may find that you have no incentive to craft after the nerfing of m/c gear that this sort of rare abundance is likely to prompt</span></p><p> NEVER forget, this GAME is called "everquest" not the "platquest". <span style="color: #990000">One might just as easily say that the game is called "Everquest," not "Easyquest" or "Rareseverywherequest."  </span> <span style="color: #990000">Oh, and before you respond to me, let me add that anyone who disagrees with any point in my response is obviously either Hitler or Typhoid Mary.  Those are your only choices by the rules of my reductive rhetoric, so which one are you?   </span></p></blockquote>

[Devilsbane]

<p>Is everyone receiving more meat harvests or more meat per harvest. Hence Pelts are harvested more often but around 1 (or 3) per harvest. While Meat is harvested less often but around 3 (or 5) per harvest. Remember Domino had to make up for the decreased harvests of meat somehow. She probably increase average amount of meat per harvest.</p><p>Edit: LOL Somehow I missed Domino's post.</p>

[Rqron]

<p><span style="color: #990000">Quote: Oh, and before you respond to me, let me add that anyone who disagrees with any point in my response is obviously either Hitler or Typhoid Mary.  Those are your only choices by the rules of my reductive rhetoric, so which one are you?  /Quote </span></p><p><span style="color: #990000">Hmmm,</span></p><p> you must mistaken me :=))</p> <p>I have offered my opinion, you have replied with your opinion, do I agree..with some of it not with all.</p><p>But,</p><p>That is what a forum is all about. A way to exchange ideas and opinions. If you are looking for someone who breaks out in flame wars...sorry thats not me... I respect your opinion as much as I respect mine. Do I expect <b>anyone</b> to agree with me??? NO absolutely not.. </p><p>Could you imagine everyone in this world would agree to what I said or what you said always...100%?</p><p>How utterly boring this world would be..in fact I do not believe we would be able to participate this way as most great ideas and invention come from someone disagreeing with the way someone else is doing something.</p><p>Ahh lucky we are not all of the same mind...I would hate to live in a society ,modeled after a bee hive.</p><p>And my name is not Mary so I dunno about that one either :=)) </p> <p>R'ron </p><p><span style="color: #990000"> </span></p>

[Sunlei]

<p> Harvesting has been amazing, to good to be true lol. Seems to me that the old imbueing "rares" removed from the last update have been replaced by node rares. Or the test server higher rate of 'luck' made it to the live servers with the last patch.</p><p> I've even stopped harvesting today as the prices for the same rares on the broker are so low, well below 5 golds. The fields are full of joyfull running harvesters <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It's even faster to loot an adept 1 or 2, sell it and buy 10 rares from the low price glutt <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[StormCinder]

<p>dartie is right.  rqron is wrong.</p><p>SC</p>

[kukubird]

Dartie's post is dead on, his post couldn't have been worded better in his response. One poster said he enjoys crafting.... will you enjoy crafting and continue to do so for the sole reason of equipping the server?  Why not give away mastercrafted items to anyone that asks?  If the rare drop rate stays as is... a palladium will be about 4g on every server and the mastercrafted jewelry pice will be about 6 gold because there are 80 palladium bangles up by 40 people. Again I pose the question, if this doesn't send off an alarm bell... then why not start giving away anything you can make?  you did say you enjoy crafting..... sit at the craft station for the whole time you log on just giving stuff away day after day.   I dare say you are in the minority .... Everyone has their reasons for playing the game the way they want..... I highly doubt most of the crafters do so to mind nubingly grind to give stuff away like you elude crafing should be lol

[Raveller]

Nolus@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>I don't mind a bump up, but I think it needs a little bumping back. Reports I've heard and what I've seen, I think its a bit much.</blockquote>Wrong. They haven't bumped it up enough. Every time we tap a node, we should receive 10 common raws, one rare raw, and one imbue material. A guarantee of three rares per node would put us just about where we need to be. Less time wasted on harvesting, less competition for nodes in the higher tiers, and more time actually playing the game.

[NosajMa]

<cite>kukubird wrote:</cite><blockquote>They will be pulling in stacks and stacks of the rares daily.... It will destroy the rare market and rare crafted market for normal players.... <span style="color: #cc3333">The market has suffered changes like this before, it will survive this one as well.</span> Anyways.... yes I bought em up... because if the rare drop rate isn't fixed.. think this will be the end of me playing..... <span style="color: #cc3333">There's far worse changes to quit over...</span> Have like 14 crafters..... <span style="color: #cc3333">How in the world do you have 14 crafters when there's only 9 classes?  And no, transmuter and tinkerer do not count since we're talking about marketing goods made from rares.</span> NAYONE REMEMBER THE FIASCO WITH THE MASTERS DROPPING OFF EVERY NAMED ABOUT A YEAR OR SO AGO? <span style="color: #cc3333">Did the game suddenly stop because of Master Day?  Or any other bug or exploit that people have found over the years?  Obviously not.  This situation is no worse.</span> </blockquote>Aside from those comments, I'm happy for this change.  It makes grinding up new crafters easier (carpenter and armorer are horrible without rares to grind through for pristine bonus xp), and for all those players who imo are lazy and 'depend' on selling rares to make their money, tough, now you have to go out and earn it like everyone else.  It levels the playing field more.

[Nuhus]

<cite>Raveller wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nolus@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>I don't mind a bump up, but I think it needs a little bumping back. Reports I've heard and what I've seen, I think its a bit much.</blockquote>Wrong. They haven't bumped it up enough. Every time we tap a node, we should receive 10 common raws, one rare raw, and one imbue material. A guarantee of three rares per node would put us just about where we need to be. Less time wasted on harvesting, less competition for nodes in the higher tiers, and more time actually playing the game. </blockquote>To hell with that, why not just recieve the final product?

[Deson]

Nolus@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote><cite>Raveller wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nolus@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>I don't mind a bump up, but I think it needs a little bumping back. Reports I've heard and what I've seen, I think its a bit much.</blockquote>Wrong. They haven't bumped it up enough. Every time we tap a node, we should receive 10 common raws, one rare raw, and one imbue material. A guarantee of three rares per node would put us just about where we need to be. Less time wasted on harvesting, less competition for nodes in the higher tiers, and more time actually playing the game. </blockquote>To hell with that, why not just recieve the final product? </blockquote>And make the harvester's name the crafter's mark!

[Captain_Xpendab]

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nolus@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote><cite>Raveller wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nolus@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>I don't mind a bump up, but I think it needs a little bumping back. Reports I've heard and what I've seen, I think its a bit much.</blockquote>Wrong. They haven't bumped it up enough. Every time we tap a node, we should receive 10 common raws, one rare raw, and one imbue material. A guarantee of three rares per node would put us just about where we need to be. Less time wasted on harvesting, less competition for nodes in the higher tiers, and more time actually playing the game. </blockquote>To hell with that, why not just recieve the final product? </blockquote>And make the harvester's name the crafter's mark! </blockquote>No, no, no, no, Not only should it be harder to get a rare, but there should be a 5% chance of the node exploding, killing the harvester and destroying half of whatever harvests they have in their inventory. <img src="/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Rqron]

No, no, no, no, Not only should it be harder to get a rare, but there should be a 5% chance of the node exploding, killing the harvester and destroying half of whatever harvests they have in their inventory. <img src="/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> with an added 20% chance for everyone suspected to be a farmer :=)) <div align="right"> </div>

[EomerFarst]

<cite>Rqron wrote:</cite><blockquote>No, no, no, no, Not only should it be harder to get a rare, but there should be a 5% chance of the node exploding, killing the harvester and destroying half of whatever harvests they have in their inventory. <img src="/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> with an added 20% chance for everyone suspected to be a farmer :=)) <div align="right"> </div></blockquote>If rare crafted so worth using then most people would agree lol.  But xego armor isn't exactly the great.

[Morgane]

Finally got a chance to spend a few hours harvesting... been hearing about all this "good luck" pulling rares since the last GU. I spent 2 1/2 hours in Anonica, TS and EL and pulled the following rares: 2 Rough Jaspers 1 Ductile Loam 1 Rough Opal 1 Severed Oak 1 Dandelion Fiber 1 Severed Fir I ain't been this lucky since I won a coupla hundred in a slot machine once. Something definitely changed with the rares.

[Tamalain]

<p>This increase in rare drops is great for me.  I run all the tradeskills, at or near 70.  Rares are were the money is on the completed item market.  So ther more I can stockpile now, the better.  </p><p>I did note that rares were dropping in lot's of 3 about ever 20 minutes or so on non-stop harvesting.  In EL, several of each type rare. totalling 25 in all, in under 2 hours.</p>

[FoxRiverRanger]

<cite>Tamalain wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This increase in rare drops is great for me.  I run all the tradeskills, at or near 70.  Rares are were the money is on the completed item market.  So ther more I can stockpile now, the better.  </p><p>I did note that rares were dropping in lot's of 3 about ever 20 minutes or so on non-stop harvesting.  In EL, several of each type rare. totalling 25 in all, in under 2 hours.</p></blockquote> Hopefully this is only a temporary situation that allows all the alt crafters to fill their new broker displays.  If the harvest rate stays at this level, then past experience with scarcity and itemization rules would indicate another round of Mastercrafted nerfs.  With T8 comming out, a whole new tier of itemization hangs in the balance.  I would rather see the scarcity increased and the desirablity of the Mastercrafted items improved over T7.  With the two expansions per tier, this tiers Mastercrafted will have to compete with both the RoK expansion, and whatever comes next.  In that next expansion Treasured and Legendary will be boosted above RoK itemization, and Mastercrafted will remain the same: as happened with EoF.

[Condar Tarsonia]

<p>Just my own input... I've never been very 'lucky' with rares, so I know the RNG hates me.  In 2 sessions, about 90 minutes to 120 minutes a piece (total about 4 hours), I was harvesting as a level 70 in EL with maxed skills.  This would, on average, I'd guesstimate to return roughly 4-6 rares previously.  In those 2 sessions post the recent GU, I've received 32 rares.  In contrast, I normally would have about 15-20 glimmering items.  Now, I've received only 8.</p><p>Interesting change, and I hope it doesn't imply mastercrafted will be nerfed again soon...</p>

[Lishara]

<p>I think anything that changed only affected T5 and below.  T6 isn't really yielding any more rares than usual (actaully i've gotten less the last 2 nights than I normally would).</p><p>T4 and T4 were insane with the rates.</p>

[Azzikai]

<cite>Lishara wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I think anything that changed only affected T5 and below.  T6 isn't really yielding any more rares than usual (actaully i've gotten less the last 2 nights than I normally would).</p><p>T4 and T4 were insane with the rates.</p></blockquote>My experience has been pretty much the same. Should I go harvest in the lower level zones I end up swimming in rares but the T6 & T7 stuff I've been after recently for actual skill ups aren't nearly as forthcoming with their prizes. It may just be my luck but I did gather 7 rares in 20 minutes in TS and only 1 rare in an hour in Loping Plains /shrug

[Deson]

Akeezi@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote><cite>Lishara wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I think anything that changed only affected T5 and below.  T6 isn't really yielding any more rares than usual (actaully i've gotten less the last 2 nights than I normally would).</p><p>T4 and T4 were insane with the rates.</p></blockquote>My experience has been pretty much the same. Should I go harvest in the lower level zones I end up swimming in rares but the T6 & T7 stuff I've been after recently for actual skill ups aren't nearly as forthcoming with their prizes. It may just be my luck but I did gather 7 rares in 20 minutes in TS and only 1 rare in an hour in Loping Plains /shrug </blockquote>Still checking it myself as well, but my experience is agreeing so far. It's hard to see though because some of the guys I'm harvesting with still have skill in tier so simply shouldn't be pulling what they are. It looks like the change in skill rate is only one factor and that there is a more pronounced base chance of a rare per tier akin to t1/t2. It was there before but it seems the numbers on those got tweaked as well.

[Calthine]

Remember that rares get more rare the higher you go, and you have a better chance of harvesting a rare if you're well above the Tier's trivial level.  So yeah, a level 70 might be harvesting T2 and T3 rares like candy. I wouldn't mind a slightly higher rate in T6 and T7!

[Alienor]

I had the "10 rares/h" on Friday when I decided to give the rumours a check. Since then: Zero, at the same T6 location with the same toon, same time. Tried with different toons: Same.  *shrug*

[Calthine]

Y'all probably got all the extra rares while I was at Fan Faire.  Figures, I can't win a lotto, either.

[Jesdyr]

I have only noticed a small increase in T7 rares. That is all from the dual resource nodes which makes sense from what Domino said. The low tiers are insane. I was doing runs in The Vale of Shattering (T2 instance). Even with the 10ish nodes in there I was often pulling 4-6 rares a zone. I think the avg ended up at around 3 rares a zone.But I am lvl 70 using tinkered tools that add to harvesting skills. Lavastorm seems to have cooled down a bit. It seems to be close to what I remember. Again the rate for dual nodes seems higher but nothing too large. again .. the RNG has always been a love/hate things .. so it is hard to tell just how much things have changed.

[Hatr]

I will tell you, as a 70 armorer that has 1-2 of every piece of mastercrafted armor on the broker, that my inventory value went from ~200p to 75p. Over the past week I have watched steel drop from 1p to 27g, feysteel from 1p10g to 30g, ebon from 90g to 30g, cobalt from 60g to 23g.  Xegonite... well, it was always cheap  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I am effectively taking a loss of over 100p due to this.  I'll adjust and make the money back on restocking as I can purchase lower, but I'm still eating 100p. Increasing the drops rate (if that is indeed what happened) while allowing your sales to stay for 7 days is flooding the market and dropping the prices substantially.  I'm all for throwing harvesters a bone, but this is a bit extreme.

[StormCinder]

Hatred@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>I will tell you, as a 70 armorer that has 1-2 of every piece of mastercrafted armor on the broker, that my inventory value went from ~200p to 75p. Over the past week I have watched steel drop from 1p to 27g, feysteel from 1p10g to 30g, ebon from 90g to 30g, cobalt from 60g to 23g.  Xegonite... well, it was always cheap  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I am effectively taking a loss of over 100p due to this.  I'll adjust and make the money back on restocking as I can purchase lower, but I'm still eating 100p. Increasing the drops rate (if that is indeed what happened) while allowing your sales to stay for 7 days is flooding the market and dropping the prices substantially.  I'm all for throwing harvesters a bone, but this is a bit extreme. </blockquote><p> It was a bit of a "perfect storm" for the economy: increase drops, increase #toons selling, increase #days items online.  Basically a flood on the market.  Obvious side effects have happened.  </p><p>I feel bad for the folks (like yourself) that had adapted to the economy and made it part of their play.  I admit that snicker (very slightly) and the few folks that are serious 'speculators' and got caught holding "hot potatoes."</p><p>The good side is, that players who enjoy crafting get to actually make Mastercrafted items now.  I admit that I was one of those that, when I received a rare harvest would sell it for the cash rather than actually craft with it.  Now I can MCraft items that I never made before.</p><p>As with all of these changes (to include the upcoming RoK crafting "re-vamp&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> we shall adapt or die.  I'm pretty sure most of the people on the forums will be among the former.</p><p>SC</p>

[Oakum]

<p>The increased drop rate of xegonite and other rares is okay though. With the one character broker limit removed the only reason not to get 6 broker slot houses is the status rent for low level characters. The carpenters can turn those rares into furniture items now. </p><p>The economy being changed was inevitable but expected when the imbalance was fixed. </p><p>Now, hopefully, they will not nerf TS again basing it on being too easy to get to lvl 70 with rares not actually being rare. </p>

[TniEradani]

<cite>Rqron wrote:</cite><blockquote>wow 90G...that is nothing..and of course it is all relative As an example. I have a character on one of the european german servers and cobalt there used to sell for 25-35G when at the same time cobalt on the AB server was 1P++. I.M.H.O. this added level of drops may bring prices on servers like AB back into the range where others where. Not that I like it, I will loose as much with my crafting characters as everyone else but feysteel for a plat+ and ebon even more being the "norm" far too long on this server. It was coming to a point where new players..and I mean new not low lvl who has a higher lvl alt to support it, new players where not able to buy any crafted items that where worth using until they hit 25 or 30 even then it was hard....a imbued curboilli chest piece for lvl22 at 60G? with 7 pieces needed at an ""average"" price of about 50G that is ~3P just for a crafted outfit?  And this does not even include jewelery and other needs. Now, after those rares drop at an higher rate the same chest piece goes for 14G and less and the whole outfit for less than one plat...and if the rates of drops stay this way it probably goes down even more into a range where everyone not just alts can afford handcrafted. This will give many players the first opportunity to get a good outfit at a fair price...and the same is true for everything else.  Now for people buying low and selling high..that is a speculation that the whole thing is a fluke and will go away. If it stays this will regulate itself and those people will do like speculators in the stock marked..they will end up dumping it or the combines they made. If the changes are permanent, the only losers here will be farmers everyone else will gain and in the long run economy after going through a short swing will regulate itself..and yes you will loose some in the short run especially if you where lazy and ""bought "' your rare instead harvesting it. But think about it...once farmers loose interest because prices are low and they can't make enough RL profit from it they will stop farming for rares (or at least greatly reduce it)...the amount of rares on the market will be reduced by this amount (have seen a known farmer yesterday with 56 oak roots at a price that was 30% higher then others). Once the farmers and the rares they have are gone the prices will adjust again and stabilize..at a lower lvl of course but they will. The average player harvests to get his skills up NOT for crafting..don't believe me? Spend an hour in the center of your city or any of the ""hubs"" like docks in TS..there inspect every player that goes past you and look at the adventure and tradeskill lvl. I don't have any statistics but I would bet that less then 25-30% of active players craft. And maybe just maybe, the lower prices for rares will entice others to start crafting. High lvl players that harvest only to sell on the market and don't harvest for crafting will go the same way farmers go.. Some will still do it because it IS a good way to support adventuring and pays for the repair bills but a lot of them will find they make more coin selling loot. Overall I see prices for everything to come down even the  high prices for master1. If adept3s are cheap why bother with a master1 that cost anywhere from 2P to 60P? A lot of times the gain of a master1 over a adept3 is hardly anything and really not worth buying unless you want to raid or made it your goal to have all master1 spells. The average player can live without them and use adept3s. If nobody buys them the price will come down. That is how the economy works. So all in all I think we will survive this and be in a much better shape after it.....I do hope this change is permanent. R'ron</blockquote><p>Having gotten this far into the discussion, forgive me if this is repeated before I get to it.</p><p>This makes a lot of sense. I can see this bringing the price of M1's down, as well as fabled gear, etc etc. I know that on the PvP servers, there's been several [drastic] changes to make it easier for new players to get started. I see the increase in rare drop rate to be one of those changes. (You cannot survive on a pvp server without MC or better gear and Ad3's.)</p><p><b>However</b>, and a big however: SoE MUST drop prices for other items in relationship to the effect this will have on the economy.</p><p>I can also seeing this having a big effect on the number of players crafting. Maybe not the old timers, but the new players. People trying to gear up right away are not going to have enough to pay someone else to make their gear. And since it's so easy to get 3 crafters to lvl 20, therefore able to make everything for T2, they probably will. By the time they've quested their way to T3 (for lots of AA's), they'll have made friends with a few others so that between them, they can make everything as high as they want to level.</p><p>For people like me, 9 crafters all 30+, this means that I won't be able to make money selling MC items on the broker. I won't be able to make money selling M1's or dropped gear. I guess I'm lucky in that I can already make everything I need, that I have just a little more money than I need stashed for my main's new nightmare, as well as several nicely decorated houses. But how are people going to make enough money to buy the nice fluff items with the NPC vendor prices still the same?</p><p>I expect that this increase in crafters may start dropping off around T4, and things may pick up again. Is this what SoE intends - that you can't possibly get any of the nice fluff items till you're T5 cause you won't be able to make any money till then??</p><p>But, maybe this is also intended to make the ground less fertile for bots. That would be a good thing.</p><p>IDK, if they'd put the rare drop rate back to pre-gu36, it was still pretty good when you had your harvesting skills maxed out. If they got rid of the harvesting tools, that would help too. I'm torn between liking this and hating it.</p>

[Jrral]

Eradani@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>For people like me, 9 crafters all 30+, this means that I won't be able to make money selling MC items on the broker. I won't be able to make money selling M1's or dropped gear. I guess I'm lucky in that I can already make everything I need, that I have just a little more money than I need stashed for my main's new nightmare, as well as several nicely decorated houses. But how are people going to make enough money to buy the nice fluff items with the NPC vendor prices still the same?</blockquote>Well, one solution is to change tactics. Don't speculate by putting inventory up on the broker. Do direct commissions instead. You advertise looking for work, the customer tells you what they need and supplies the rares, you do the work at a price based on your cost (essentially fuel) marked up a reasonable amount for time and effort and commons. Keep your prices reasonable and you'll have as much work as you feel willing to handle. You won't make a killing in one day, but you also won't be sinking money into inventory and risking broker price fluctuations either.

[Spyrit]

Jrral@Unrest wrote: <blockquote>Well, one solution is to change tactics. Don't speculate by putting inventory up on the broker. Do direct commissions instead. You advertise looking for work, the customer tells you what they need and supplies the rares, you do the work at a price based on your cost (essentially fuel) marked up a reasonable amount for time and effort and commons. Keep your prices reasonable and you'll have as much work as you feel willing to handle. You won't make a killing in one day, but you also won't be sinking money into inventory and risking broker price fluctuations either. </blockquote><p>I was one of those players that lost a ton of plat because I do "speculate", I sort of wish I was selling at stupid prices so at least I would have banked some seriuos plat already. I am disappointed that SOE allowed such a large price drop to happen (from a large change in drop rates) because of the affect it had on the economy but thats ok, It's only play money. </p><p>I am not sure your change in "tactic" is going to help many people. I have 5 x 70 crafters, Sage, Provy, Carp, Jewler and WW. To get any cash out of a Sage you have to have a ton of spells on the market, Wizzy spells do not help a Necro much. On my server many of the AD3's (Scout AD3's) that I put up are the only AD3 available on the market but at least they are available 24 hours a day. If I am not making stock to place on the broker I will not have my Sage or Jeweler logged in very often so the chances of catching me online to make spells will be slim. Not sure how this helps anyone.</p><p>If SOE wants to keep their players happy, they have to keep a <b>stable</b> ecomony. Let market forces decide what is a fair price for goods. If my prices are too dear people do noy buy, fairly simple.</p>

[Jrral]

Spyrit@Najena wrote: <blockquote>I am not sure your change in "tactic" is going to help many people. I have 5 x 70 crafters, Sage, Provy, Carp, Jewler and WW. To get any cash out of a Sage you have to have a ton of spells on the market, Wizzy spells do not help a Necro much.</blockquote>That's why I don't put spells up on the broker. If I'm making a spell, it's because I've a customer standing there after handing over his rare and coin waiting for me to finish it so he can scribe it. Or more likely, standing there waiting for the half-dozen he's ordered for his next several levels. Multiply that by 5-6 customers a day, every day, and it's a pretty decent steady income. I can pretty much ignore broker prices, and the increased drop rate only means more customers who can harvest or afford to buy rares which translates to more money for me (and of course an easier time outfitting my own adventurers).

[Spyrit]

<p>You may be right Jrral.</p><p>For now I think I will just sell out my existing stock and leave the market alone. Time to take my Congy out and hunt named, more fun than crafting anyway. <img src="/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Calthine]

2 hours tonight in Barren Sky, 2 rares.  Better than I expected, but nothing unusual. <img src="http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a230/calthine/BS-harvesting.jpg" border="0">

[Ruut Li]

<p>why would anyone try to make game coin by comission in the future, when there are more efficient ways of making coin? Of course those areas will prolly be ninja changed too by "gods" hand <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> "oh no the insta gratitude ppl are unhappy again".</p><p>Personally I will only craft for my own chars, disc exp and for guildies. I suppose this is the way it should be. Funny though since on the other hand we cant have level based spam filters because that wouldnt be good for the community heh lol.</p>

[khanthemighty]

<p>I think that the broker changes have worked in my favor.  I have turned into a wholesale buyer of rare items.  Am I worried about selling now? no... The things I've bought over the past few days I'm going to sit on.  I may even sit on them till the next expansion.  I am not personally worried about the market bouncing back, because I know it will.  What I'm more excited about is that once it does, I'm sitting on approximately hundreds of plat worth of items (things I've bought and collected myself), even at 20% less than what the market was before the broker change.  Speculation for the long term is where I'm at today...</p>

[Obadiah]

Well, I don't do my own harvesting. I buy the rares off the market for the few T6 and T7 products I've made on a regular basis. Not making a boatload of money, but it was steady. Enough to support repair kits and stakes and paying the mender bot and such for raids. It doesn't appear that in T6 and T7 wood and metals are affected. Spongy loam was still well over 1P when I checked. So really in this tier the people affected are those who rely on root-related products for their meager income. I'm sure that's a small enough minority that it's not important, but. . . It's all gone now. Yes, the sky is falling. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> The proverbial brush was just a bit wide, IMO. Like several feet too wide. Another merchant on my server tried to start a thread about rares, but apparently this is the only place we're allowed to talk about it. Let's keep our complaints buried 7 pages deep where they won't disturb anyone who is content. <b> How can anyone be surprised that making rare roots come from two nodes would create a massive increase in the supply?!?!</b> <b>It has nothing to do with RNG</b> so this isn't really the correct topic for it, but I guess if we try to talk about it elsewhere the thread will be locked. Rare roots were already among the more common rares, especially since every TS class needs the common ones. <b>So far T6 and T7 rares have gone from 1P to 20G. </b>Once the price of the rare gets that low, no one is going to pay any sort of mark-up for an item on the broker. (Kind of like Afterdark said. . . did I mention his thread was locked?) That's what happened to t3-t5. . . rare roots were already 20G and sometimes less so the product would only sell for 30. Now . . . after this change making them more common to begin with AND coming from two kinds of nodes . . . T5 rare roots are 5G.

[Jesdyr]

<cite>khanthemighty wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>What I'm more excited about is that once it does, I'm sitting on approximately hundreds of plat worth of items (things I've bought and collected myself), even at 20% less than what the market was before the broker change.  Speculation for the long term is where I'm at today...</p></blockquote> This is the same risk people took who are now complaining about losing all this money. I know you are banking on the "alt rush" that will happen with the expansion. I doubt you will be the only one. You may make some coin off of it, but I doubt it will be as much as you think. <b>Calthine -  </b>T7 did not see much of a change. There should be a increase in rares from nodes with more than one rare as well as the chance at rare root from shrubs. T7 did not see the large increase that the low tiers did (It really drops off at t5).

[Jesdyr]

Kurgan@Everfrost wrote: <blockquote><b> How can anyone be surprised that making rare roots come from two nodes would create a massive increase in the supply?!?!</b> <b>It has nothing to do with RNG</b> so this isn't really the correct topic for it, but I guess if we try to talk about it elsewhere the thread will be locked. </blockquote> When I made the thread there was nothing known aside from rare roots being added to shrubs. The thread turned into something else <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> This isnt sweeping it under the rug. I have no doubt Domino will read this. She had the right idea and maybe there should be some tweaking to the rates, but Overall I think the change was good.

[Ruut Li]

Jesdyr@Unrest wrote: <blockquote><cite>khanthemighty wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>What I'm more excited about is that once it does, I'm sitting on approximately hundreds of plat worth of items (things I've bought and collected myself), even at 20% less than what the market was before the broker change.  Speculation for the long term is where I'm at today...</p></blockquote> This is the same risk people took who are now complaining about losing all this money. I know you are banking on the "alt rush" that will happen with the expansion. I doubt you will be the only one. You may make some coin off of it, but I doubt it will be as much as you think. </blockquote> Actually not all who are losing money are pure market speculators. Im losing money because in addition to harvesting rares myself I have bought some rares to help level up my crafters. Yes its a risk of course, but I honestly didnt expect such a silly and huge change made by a dev when there wasnt anything wrong with the crafters market in the first place. I mean come on, the past 4 days Ive gotten approx 100 rares total from t3-t7 zones, and thats about 4 hours of harvesting/day.....

[Rast]

<p>No, there is a distinct increase in rares.  Even not harvesting alot (the primary harvester was hunting at this same time, though I did drag my lvl 70 out there for a couple hours just to see what he'd get) at t4, I've picked up 6 feysteel, 1 severed oak, 3 oak roots, 10 Ruthenium Clusters, 4 rough opals, 1 ductile loam since lasts wednesday.  Given that the only real time I played over the weekend was for a raid, I would say that is over about 5, maybe 6 hours of harvesting.  There have even been several times I've gotten multiple rares from a single node and probably 6-7 times, I've gotten 10 commons + rare harvest.</p><p>For the first time ever, I'm actually contemplating a set of feysteel armor for a toon, though I may just wait for the ebon, since she is already 37 now.</p>

[Obadiah]

Jalathan@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote><p>No, there is a distinct increase in rares.  Even not harvesting alot (the primary harvester was hunting at this same time, though I did drag my lvl 70 out there for a couple hours just to see what he'd get) at t4, I've picked up 6 feysteel, 1 severed oak, 3 oak roots, 10 Ruthenium Clusters, 4 rough opals, 1 ductile loam since lasts wednesday.  Given that the only real time I played over the weekend was for a raid, I would say that is over about 5, maybe 6 hours of harvesting.  There have even been several times I've gotten multiple rares from a single node and probably 6-7 times, I've gotten 10 commons + rare harvest.</p><p>For the first time ever, I'm actually contemplating a set of feysteel armor for a toon, though I may just wait for the ebon, since she is already 37 now.</p></blockquote> Could just make a set of Blood Iron armor. Except . . . wait . . . now that level 37 armor is going to cost literally 10x what Ebon will. . .

[Rast]

I thought of that, but my armorer can't do the Citidel (he's only a lvl 31 adventurerer), so my real choices are Feysteel and Ebon.  May make a couple pieces out fo the feysteel to get me to 42 too...  haven't decided yet.

[Obadiah]

That's OK. . . . I was being a sarcastic b-astard. <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Blood Iron Ore is expensive. Ebon is now dirt cheap despite making product 5 levels higher.

[khanthemighty]

Jesdyr@Unrest wrote: <blockquote><cite>khanthemighty wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>What I'm more excited about is that once it does, I'm sitting on approximately hundreds of plat worth of items (things I've bought and collected myself), even at 20% less than what the market was before the broker change.  Speculation for the long term is where I'm at today...</p></blockquote> This is the same risk people took who are now complaining about losing all this money. <span style="font-size: medium"><b>I know you are banking on the "alt rush" that will happen with the expansion. I doubt you will be the only one. You may make some coin off of it, but I doubt it will be as much as you think.</b></span> <b>Calthine -  </b>T7 did not see much of a change. There should be a increase in rares from nodes with more than one rare as well as the chance at rare root from shrubs. T7 did not see the large increase that the low tiers did (It really drops off at t5). </blockquote><p>I disagree with you here.  RoK is going to primarily focus on T1 and T2 (maybe T3) and T7 and T8.  If you were around when KoS dropped, you'll remember that a great majority of the players focused on leveling and adventure related material, and very little effort was paid to anything else.  It was always a small faction of hardcore harvesters and crafters that fed the server new tier rares and crafted items.  Since most of the emphasis is going to be paid to T8 (and its new assortment of rares and loot drops) very little is going to happen in Tiers 3-6.  This is where wholesalers like me come in, and re-populate the broker slowly, turning immense profit on rares and such.</p><p> From a crafting standpoint, people are going to have to either be a guild's main crafter or will have to hunt for adv. recipe books to continue to craft.  Crafters will have to harvest new zones for raws and rares.  More time out in the field means less time in the crafting station.  When the whole process slows down, things become more rare on the broker and prices jump back up.  We dont see this as much any more because we've been at 70 for two expansions now.  This is how the prices will jump back up.  Adventuring will cause scarcity, and the competition at the highest and lowest tier, will not only make those items costly and highly sought after, so will the wares made from them.  Alts wont be played as much, and the harvesting done here will become non- existant.  </p><p>IMHO, the only necessities once the next expansion drops will be jewelery and spells, which means the only hot crafters after RoK will be sages, jewelers, and alchys (maybe armorers for fledgling Sarnaks).  The most profitable crafters will be one of these, who are aggressive in making their wares faster than anyone else.  All other crafting classes will take a back seat for a while, at least until most of the population has reached 80.  </p>

[Obadiah]

I'm confused. . . why would you have to be the guild's main crafter or hunt for recipe books to continue crafting. Takes 26 combines to get from level 69 to 70 now. 2 first time pristines plus 4 writs. So . . . while I expect it to be somewhat slower from 70 to 79 . . . unless something is drastically changed between now and then or it is extremely difficult to harvest raw materials, I will be <b>shocked</b> if there are not several level 79/80 crafters in the first 24 hours. Then those crafters will be right back supplying the lower tiers as they are today. Also, you said yourself that Sages, Jewellers, and Alchys will be the hot crafters in T8. I don't disagree with you there. Since we've been at 70 for so long, I doubt many folks with 70 toons today will see an upgrade going from their current armor/weapons to T8 mastercrafted. So those classes you don't expect to be "hot" . . . armorers, weaponsmiths, tailors . . . we'll just continue to feed the alts/new players. Crafters always really play the alt market when there's a new expansion, especially one with a new race. Furthermore, with the changes discussed at length in this post . . . crafters don't have to spend a great deal of time getting the rares to keep the middle tiers supplied. They'll take 15 minutes and go grab 7 rare roots to restock their Tranquil Cambric outfits, for example. <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I'm just sayin make sure the market has really bottomed out before you stock up TOO much. Don't think we're there yet.

[Spyrit]

Kurgan@Everfrost wrote: <blockquote>It doesn't appear that in T6 and T7 wood and metals are affected. Spongy loam was still well over 1P when I checked. So really in this tier the people affected are those who rely on root-related products for their meager income. I'm sure that's a small enough minority that it's not important, but. . . </blockquote><p> Really? Metal prices are not affected? So what happened on Najena Server?</p><p>All prices ex-broker fees; </p><p>Rough Moonstone went from 60G to 30G</p><p>Acrylia went from 90G to 60G</p><p>Spongy went from 1P to about 60G (they were 2P for a while last month)</p><p>The market has been up and down a bit over the last few days but overall there has been a dramatic drop. Now that the Devs are back from FF I am hoping that we get some sort of confirmation that the new drop rates are "working as intended" or a bug. </p>

[denmom]

Spyrit@Najena wrote: <blockquote>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote: <blockquote>It doesn't appear that in T6 and T7 wood and metals are affected. Spongy loam was still well over 1P when I checked. So really in this tier the people affected are those who rely on root-related products for their meager income. I'm sure that's a small enough minority that it's not important, but. . . </blockquote><p> Really? Metal prices are not affected? So what happened on Najena Server?</p><p>All prices ex-broker fees; </p><p>Rough Moonstone went from 60G to 30G</p><p>Acrylia went from 90G to 60G</p><p>Spongy went from 1P to about 60G (they were 2P for a while last month)</p><p>The market has been up and down a bit over the last few days but overall there has been a dramatic drop. Now that the Devs are back from FF I am hoping that we get some sort of confirmation that the new drop rates are "working as intended" or a bug. </p></blockquote>Earlier in this thread, Domino confirmed it is working as intended.  She gave a long explanation of what she was doing and why.

[Lathaine]

<p>LOL no it dont work as intended... clairly not. usually gm and other say work as intended until they fix it really...</p><p>ATM it take you 2 day of harvest for get what you could get in 2 month befor...</p><p> Tonigh i harvest a few, with lot afk and several other people running after harvest... i got 60 rare. in like 3H of play</p><p>8 Materia for 60 rare if you feel this rate correct, it clarly not !</p><p>Player who say it's not true are clairly here for misinform people and exploit it.</p><p>One in my guild got 22 acrylia in less than 4H, one other got 22 feysteel, 15 ductil, 11 opal, 11 engraved, 11 ruthenium, 8 rare root, all this in 4H too</p><p>Drop rate is clairly need fix quick, or it will totaly kill craft. every harvester will have severel stack of each rare in only one week of harvest... stack have 50 rare in it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>already see seller with 130 alkali loam today <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and it's just a start...</p><p>I hope they ll not wait end of fan fair... this need to be fixed very quick. Perhaps even a buck up server 2 day back...</p><p>If you harvest something like 1H and get 1 or 2 rare... yes ok, no big deal... until you get 5 rare in row, you ll get that several time...</p>

[Jrral]

<cite>Lathaine wrote:</cite><blockquote>Player who say it's not true are clairly here for misinform people and exploit it.<p>Drop rate is clairly need fix quick, or it will totaly kill craft. every harvester will have severel stack of each rare in only one week of harvest... stack have 50 rare in it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote>I don't think it'll be changed. Domino had exact numbers on drops back during ComicCon, if she thought they were wrong they'd've been tweaked before FanFaire started. They weren't, so I'd be suprised if that changes significantly now. I expect some tweaking to balance drop rates on nodes that drop more than one type of material, but those shouldn't change the totals much. And how will this kill crafting? The more readily rares are available, the more business there is for crafters making things for people who just don't like the process of crafting. The only people this might hurt are the broker speculators, and IMO that's one of the risks you take speculating. I don't think "I can't make a killing on the broker!" will be taken very seriously. Game balance complaints, ie. things like "The availability of Mastercrafted gear and spells is trivializing content in these zones, and here's how.", may get you somewhere, but I don't hear anyone making that kind of argument. Now, I <i>have</i> seen a massive nerf of harvesting skill-ups on the newbie isle. No change in pull results (other than the increased number of failed pulls), but skill-ups aren't happening anymore. I'm going to check tonight when I run a new alt through the T1 areas off of Qeynos, but I don't think that change affects anything but the newbie isle and if anything I think it's more a bug than a deliberate nerf.

[Lathaine]

<p>sure they can know who get how many rare... and they really should look at how many rare people saying no rare dont drop much.</p><p>if player get lot of rare and say here he dont, he clairly exploit, and abuse, should be sanctionned.</p>

[Domino]

Just to clarify ... as stated, I'm looking into it this week, and yes, it will be tweaked a bit this week. The following will change: <ul><li>yet more pelts than meats (in 100 harvests, look for about 66 pelts and 33 meats)</li><li>fewer rares in T2+ -- so overall, a slightly higher rate of rares in T2-T6 than we had before GU37 (by no more than 0.22% at most - that in T2 and T3 - less than 0.1% difference everywhere else - with the exception of 2-rare nodes, see below)</li></ul>That said it will still FEEL like more rares than before GU37 for three main reasons: <ol><li>bushes now drop roots, so if you regularly harvest bushes, you'll end up with a lot more roots than you would have when they had no rare</li><li>nodes with 2 rares will drop rares more often.  Previously they were dropping rares at the same rate as other nodes which had only one rare.  This meant that they were actually dropping each individual rare type HALF as often as the rare from a single-type node like roots or dens, meaning only half as many rare loam, ore, soft metal, and gems were entering the world as rare roots or pelts.  So yes, these will now drop at the same rate as rare pelts.</li><li>the level at which you start using the bonus result table is now lower.  Prior to GU37, none of us could even use the bonus harvest result tables for T7 (OR T6) at all.  Now, we start having a chance to.</li></ol>For those who don't know what I'm referring to with the bonus result tables, harvesting works as follows.  (If you really don't care about details you can skip this bit.) For each node in each zone, when you harvest it, there are different result tables set up that tell the game what to give you when you harvest.  Your skill level determines which table you use. For example, using entirely invented numbers, let's imagine that there is a root node in a level 30-40 zone and you go and harvest it with a gathering skill of 190. The game sees that the root node points to two result tables.  Let's call them: T4_roots_base_result  - required skill 140 T4_roots_bonus_result - required skill 189 <ul><li>The "base" table might tell you that you have a 70% chance of getting 1 root, a 20% chance of getting 3 roots, an 8% chance of getting 5 roots, a 1% chance of getting an imbue, a 0.7% chance of getting a rare root, and a 0.3% chance of getting a rare root + 10 common ones. </li></ul><ul><li>The "bonus" table might tell you that you have a 60% chance of getting 1 root, a 25% chance of getting 3 roots, an 10% chance of getting 5 roots, a 0.5% chance of getting an imbue, a 0.8% chance of getting a rare root, and a 0.7% chance of getting a rare root + 10 common ones.</li></ul><span style="font-size: xx-small">(Yes, the numbers probably don't add up to 100%, I just invented them on the spot.)</span> Now we know that if your skill is under 140, you can't harvest the node at all.  And we know your skill is 190.  So the RNG rolls a number between 140 and 190.  If it gets 140-188, you use the "base" result table.  If it gets 189+, you use the "bonus" result table.  Clearly, as your gathering skill increases, your chance of using the "bonus" result table gets better.  (This is where +harvesting skill items affect your results, they increase your chance of using the bonus table.) As of GU37, you get to start using the "bonus" table at level _8 (so, 8, 18, 28, 38, etc.)  You're still not <i>guaranteed</i> to use it, but you have a <i>CHANCE</i> to use it.  Previous to GU37, the level at which you could start getting the bonus was much higher, so that you didn't even have a chance to get the bonus table until you had entirely outlevelled the tier.  In T6 and T7 prior to GU37 we still couldn't even start using the bonus level at level 70 with 350 skill, so we've been harvesting off the "base" table all this time.  Now we will begin to have a chance to use the "bonus" level, so yes, we'll get slightly better harvesting results in T6 and T7 than we were before, but it's actually about the same results as we would eventually have got as the level cap raised and we continued to level up. Incidentally, all nodes within a level range (in this example, all nodes in level 30-40 zones) point to the same result tables, so it makes no difference whether you're harvesting in one zone or another. This change will be hotfixed in this week if all goes well.  In the mean time consider it a little short-term bonus and enjoy.

[dartie]

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just to clarify ... as stated, I'm looking into it this week, and yes, it will be tweaked a bit this week. The following will change: <ul><li>yet more pelts than meats (in 100 harvests, look for about 66 pelts and 33 meats)</li><li>fewer rares in T2+ -- so overall, a slightly higher rate of rares in T2-T6 than we had before GU37 (by no more than 0.22% at most - that in T2 and T3 - less than 0.1% difference everywhere else - with the exception of 2-rare nodes, see below)</li></ul>That said it will still FEEL like more rares than before GU37 for three main reasons: <ol><li>bushes now drop roots, so if you regularly harvest bushes, you'll end up with a lot more roots than you would have when they had no rare</li><li>nodes with 2 rares will drop rares more often.  Previously they were dropping rares at the same rate as other nodes which had only one rare.  This meant that they were actually dropping each individual rare type HALF as often as the rare from a single-type node like roots or dens, meaning only half as many rare loam, ore, soft metal, and gems were entering the world as rare roots or pelts.  So yes, these will now drop at the same rate as rare pelts.</li><li>the level at which you start using the bonus result table is now lower.  Prior to GU37, none of us could even use the bonus harvest result tables for T7 (OR T6) at all.  Now, we start having a chance to.</li></ol>For those who don't know what I'm referring to with the bonus result tables, harvesting works as follows.  (If you really don't care about details you can skip this bit.) For each node in each zone, when you harvest it, there are different result tables set up that tell the game what to give you when you harvest.  Your skill level determines which table you use. For example, using entirely invented numbers, let's imagine that there is a root node in a level 30-40 zone and you go and harvest it with a gathering skill of 190. The game sees that the root node points to two result tables.  Let's call them: T4_roots_base_result  - required skill 140 T4_roots_bonus_result - required skill 189 <ul><li>The "base" table might tell you that you have a 70% chance of getting 1 root, a 20% chance of getting 3 roots, an 8% chance of getting 5 roots, a 1% chance of getting an imbue, a 0.7% chance of getting a rare root, and a 0.3% chance of getting a rare root + 10 common ones. </li></ul><ul><li>The "bonus" table might tell you that you have a 60% chance of getting 1 root, a 25% chance of getting 3 roots, an 10% chance of getting 5 roots, a 0.5% chance of getting an imbue, a 0.8% chance of getting a rare root, and a 0.7% chance of getting a rare root + 10 common ones.</li></ul><span style="font-size: xx-small">(Yes, the numbers probably don't add up to 100%, I just invented them on the spot.)</span> Now we know that if your skill is under 140, you can't harvest the node at all.  And we know your skill is 190.  So the RNG rolls a number between 140 and 190.  If it gets 140-188, you use the "base" result table.  If it gets 189+, you use the "bonus" result table.  Clearly, as your gathering skill increases, your chance of using the "bonus" result table gets better.  (This is where +harvesting skill items affect your results, they increase your chance of using the bonus table.) As of GU37, you get to start using the "bonus" table at level _8 (so, 8, 18, 28, 38, etc.)  You're still not <i>guaranteed</i> to use it, but you have a <i>CHANCE</i> to use it.  Previous to GU37, the level at which you could start getting the bonus was much higher, so that you didn't even have a chance to get the bonus table until you had entirely outlevelled the tier.  In T6 and T7 prior to GU37 we still couldn't even start using the bonus level at level 70 with 350 skill, so we've been harvesting off the "base" table all this time.  Now we will begin to have a chance to use the "bonus" level, so yes, we'll get slightly better harvesting results in T6 and T7 than we were before, but it's actually about the same results as we would eventually have got as the level cap raised and we continued to level up. Incidentally, all nodes within a level range (in this example, all nodes in level 30-40 zones) point to the same result tables, so it makes no difference whether you're harvesting in one zone or another. This change will be hotfixed in this week if all goes well.  In the mean time consider it a little short-term bonus and enjoy. </blockquote><p> The very coolest post from a dev--ever.</p><p>TY for the clarification.</p>

[FoxRiverRanger]

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just to clarify ... as stated, I'm looking into it this week, and yes, it will be tweaked a bit this week. ...  In the mean time consider it a little short-term bonus and enjoy. </blockquote> Thank you for the prompt attention and fix to this error.

[melaine_dvarvensplitter]

Domino, I think I love you. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Thanks for the clarification and thank you for the rate increases. Thank you so much once again. Now if ya could increase TT respawn rates I would be in bliss *grin* I love the respawn rates in t2 and t5 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I use to have to run all over to get a nice full set of stuff to harvest I haven't had to leave my little areas at all cuz as soon as it's cleared by me it's respawning again. THANK YOU!!!!

[Jrral]

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote> <ul><li>fewer rares in T2+ -- so overall, a slightly higher rate of rares in T2-T6 than we had before GU37 (by no more than 0.22% at most - that in T2 and T3 - less than 0.1% difference everywhere else - with the exception of 2-rare nodes, see below)</li></ul> </blockquote>I could live with even a 25-50% drop from current rates. Just so long as it doesn't go back to where it was: I go into a T4 or T5 zone with a level 59 character, all skills at 295, and in 2-3 hours of harvesting pull 1 rare, maybe 2 on a good day (in T4, in T5 call it 50-50 to get even one).

[Spyrit]

<p>Thank you Domino.</p><p>This change has caused some of us great concern. </p><p>As usual, your response was exactly what was needed.</p>

[Phoxtrot]

Ok so lets see the picture for tier 7. The minimum skill to harvest is 280. ince we get a chance to use the bonus table at level _8 is guess this mean we need to roll something between 336 & 340, maybe 339 to match the example Domino gave. I guess the random number is between 280 and our (modified) harvest skill. Can you confirm this Domino, because it implies that lowering the difficulty of the harvest node (without changing the tier) makes it MORE difficult to get the rare table... Assmuing a maxed harvester, the chance to use the bonus table are as follow: Min roll 280, Max 350, required 339  -->> Chance : 12/71 = 16.90% With a +10 harvest tool : Min roll 280, Max 360, required 339  -->> Chance : 22/81 = 27.16% Of course, since we don't know the composition of the different tables, we cannot check those results statistically in-game. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Note: If the min roll was pushed up to 290 (which is more in line with t he min harvest skill required in other tiers), the  chances would go up to 19.67% & 30.99% respectively.

[denmom]

<cite>Phoxtrot wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok so lets see the picture for tier 7. The minimum skill to harvest is 280. </blockquote>Uh...minimum for T7 is 250. *goes back to lurking*

[EomerFarst]

It seems that I am still mining more Xegonite than Spongy Loam.  With RoK getting closer the rareity of loams needs to be reduced. Ebony seems to rarer than other rares though lol, but I've never had great luck with wood spawns. I liked how it was before because I don't think harvesting should be a chore.

[lilmohi]

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just to clarify ... as stated, I'm looking into it this week, and yes, it will be tweaked a bit this week. The following will change: <ul><li>yet more pelts than meats (in 100 harvests, look for about 66 pelts and 33 meats)</li><li>fewer rares in T2+ -- so overall, a slightly higher rate of rares in T2-T6 than we had before GU37 (by no more than 0.22% at most - that in T2 and T3 - less than 0.1% difference everywhere else - with the exception of 2-rare nodes, see below)</li></ul>That said it will still FEEL like more rares than before GU37 for three main reasons: <ol><li>bushes now drop roots, so if you regularly harvest bushes, you'll end up with a lot more roots than you would have when they had no rare</li><li>nodes with 2 rares will drop rares more often.  Previously they were dropping rares at the same rate as other nodes which had only one rare.  This meant that they were actually dropping each individual rare type HALF as often as the rare from a single-type node like roots or dens, meaning only half as many rare loam, ore, soft metal, and gems were entering the world as rare roots or pelts.  So yes, these will now drop at the same rate as rare pelts.</li><li>the level at which you start using the bonus result table is now lower.  Prior to GU37, none of us could even use the bonus harvest result tables for T7 (OR T6) at all.  Now, we start having a chance to.</li></ol>This change will be hotfixed in this week if all goes well.  In the mean time consider it a little short-term bonus and enjoy. </blockquote><p> Please don't nerf rare drop rates just because some people who stockpiled rares are complaining.  If there is a bug i'm fine with fixing it but from what i've seen the single harvest nodes are dropping rares at the same rates they did before.  The two rare nodes are definately higher, but i'm still not sure that it is more than double what it was before (it should be double).  </p><p>It's completely bogus that metal armor wearers have had to pay at least double what leather and cloth wearers for mastercrafter armor.  I leveled up a monk and every tier he was able to afford a full set of MC armor with just the money he made, however my shadowknight has been doing good to be able to afford a breastplate & legs.  I'm glad you fixed it so please don't arbitrarily nerf it just because people are complaining.  </p><p>I play a weaponsmith but i almost never make rare weapons for my twinks because i can usually find legendary weapons for much less than what it would cost to buy the raws.  If the cost for raws drops I will be able to sell more rare weapons because i won't have to charge more for them than what a better legendary weapon costs.  Generally speaking item quality progresses as: Treasured -> Mastercrafted -> Legendary -> Fabled.  As long as costs for the items follows a similar progression then as a crafter you have a market, but when costs for rare exceed the cost for legendary then even if i harvest my own rares, i still make more money selling the rare metal on the market than trying to craft a weapon to sell.</p>

[Calthine]

I think you'll find it's more than a tweak than a nerf. Domino tweaked it a bit, now she's tweaking it a bit more.  Don't despair - I sincerely doubt we're ever going back to the goof ol' days.  (Before someone slams me for being an anti-change old-timer, It was over three months after launch before I ever harvested a rare.  *shudder*  no thanks)

[Bloodfa]

<p>Appreciate the feedback from Domino; it's nice to know that devs are actively maintaining the game.  </p><p>As a personal bias back on the PvP aspect, as I stated before, it's done more to balance out the low-end game than the last several game tweaks have, whether intended or not, so I'd ask that the T2-T3 numbers not be nerfed back too hardly.  Either way, I'll survive (Look, the sky's <i>not</i> falling after all!), but the decreased value of the rares at that tier, due to and combined with the increased chances to pull them, has driven the price of blackened iron to the point where a casual player can gear up against a twink, or a newbie can take the advice some of us hand out and farm for a couple of hours to gear up well enough that they don't just fall like chaff before the scythe.  Those are the levels that you want people to get hooked into the game anyway.  By the time they're ready to move up, a little extra money being spent by them won't break the bank, so crafters will still have their income, just from a different tier of product.</p><p>Just to clarify, my toons are:</p><p>65 Swashbuckler with almost 1,200 rares harvested 47 Weaponsmith</p><p>37 Warden 30 Woodworker</p><p>32 Monk 38 Tailor</p><p>13 Ranger 47 Provisioner</p><p>12 Templar 40 Jeweler</p><p>I get no experience for T2 & T3 crafting, but spend hours on several toons doing 'pro-bono' work for friends, guildies, and newbies that haven't got 2 gold to rub together.  It's much more rewarding to be able to throw free stuff in with the requests because I'm sitting on a surplus of harvested rares.  I'm not in the game to make a ton of coin.  What's the purpose of having 247 plat just sitting in the bank?  Can't pay my mortgage with it.</p>

[dartie]

Jrral@Unrest wrote: <blockquote> Game balance complaints, ie. things like "The availability of Mastercrafted gear and spells is trivializing content in these zones, and here's how.", may get you somewhere, but I don't hear anyone making that kind of argument. </blockquote><p> That's exactly the argument I've made elsewhere.  An overabundance of rares is simply a prelude to a nerf of mastercrafted gear. </p><p>Before the last update, twinking out a T2 character would have taken a fair amount of time (harvesting the rares yourself) or a fair amount of coin.  </p><p>Suddenly it takes very little time to harvest the rares oneself and very little coin to purchase them.</p><p>I'm not big on abstractions.  So what if alkaline loam used to cost 15-20 gp and now costs 6 gp?  So what if silver used to cost 20-30 gp and now costs 10 gp?  So what if blackened iron clusters used to go for 30-50 gp and now go for 12-15 gp?  It's only a pretend economy--and no one needs to jump out of a window if it goes "haywire"--just as it did after EoF.  </p><p>The EQ2 economy fluctuates.  Those who stockpiled rares at the old prices took their chances--and lost.  No biggie.  The fact that things didn't work out for such people does not mean the economy is broken.</p><p>However, when everyone can solo heroic content because everyone is decked out in mastercrafted gear, the most likely consequence appears to me to be the nerfing of m/c gear.  </p><p>At the lower tiers, m/c gear is (despite what certain people contend) far better than treasured and often as good as or better than legendary.</p><p>I suspect that from the devs' point of view the quality of T2 m/c gear only makes sense as long as the time invested in harvesting the rares bears some kind of semblance to the time one might spend farming named for a complete set of legendary/fabled gear.  </p><p>I'm not asking for rares to be made less common because I don't want people to have m/c gear.</p><p>I am asking for rares to be made less common because I fear that if they aren't, m/c gear will be nerfed so as not to be worth having.</p><p>Tradeskillers already know to concentrate their marketing efforts on T2-T6 if they want to see a profit because the m/c gear for T7 isn't competitive with treasured.  The current rare flood (if left unchecked) could only lead to a wholesale m/c nerfage that would make the same thing true for the lower tiers.  </p><p>Domino has already indicated that we should see an adjustment on rare rates soon, but I hope that however far she scales things back, it is far enough to prevent the adventure devs from noticing that 98 out of 100 players are soloing heroic content in the middle tiers. </p>

[Jesdyr]

I would like to note .. that even the low tier stuff should rarely drop below what that Tier of transmuted powder sells for. MC gear transmutes like Legendary which means you almost always get a powder from it.

[dartie]

Jesdyr@Unrest wrote: <blockquote> I would like to note .. that even the low tier stuff should rarely drop below what that Tier of transmuted powder sells for. MC gear transmutes like Legendary which means you almost always get a powder from it. </blockquote><p> Huh?</p><p>Unless there was a recent change that I'm unaware of, AD3s are the *only* m/c gear that transmutes like legendary.</p><p>I read here long ago and confirmed through my own experience that other m/c items transmute like treasured.</p>

[rumblepants]

<cite>dartie wrote:</cite><blockquote>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote: <blockquote> I would like to note .. that even the low tier stuff should rarely drop below what that Tier of transmuted powder sells for. MC gear transmutes like Legendary which means you almost always get a powder from it. </blockquote><p> Huh?</p><p>Unless there was a recent change that I'm unaware of, AD3s are the *only* m/c gear that transmutes like legendary.</p><p>I read here long ago and confirmed through my own experience that other m/c items transmute like treasured.</p></blockquote>That is correct. Mastercrafted equipment transmutes like Treasured. Mastercrafted spells I think transmute like Legendary.

[Calthine]

<cite>rumblepants79 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dartie wrote:</cite><blockquote>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote: <blockquote> I would like to note .. that even the low tier stuff should rarely drop below what that Tier of transmuted powder sells for. MC gear transmutes like Legendary which means you almost always get a powder from it. </blockquote><p> Huh?</p><p>Unless there was a recent change that I'm unaware of, AD3s are the *only* m/c gear that transmutes like legendary.</p><p>I read here long ago and confirmed through my own experience that other m/c items transmute like treasured.</p></blockquote>That is correct. Mastercrafted equipment transmutes like Treasured. Mastercrafted spells I think transmute like Legendary. </blockquote> Correct.

[Alienor]

<cite>dartie wrote:</cite><blockquote>DominoDev wrote: [very interesting things] <p> The very coolest post from a dev--ever.</p><p>TY for the clarification.</p></blockquote>Full ack. I would like to suggest a bonus for Domino <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Maybe 50% chance of getting the additional salary of a community representative for example *g*?

[kukubird]

If you like the rare drop increase or not....... think it is a good rate... or too much...... what was the desired affect on the servers? On my server it has crashed the markets about 75%  so for example a steel cluster was 1 plat before ( my opinion maybe a touch high ).... and is now 25 gold ( my opinion too low ). Anwyays..... also have so many crafters now that rares ( being low price ) are still more expensive then the mastercrafted items you make them into )     Again, intended? Also, people still haven't grasped the rare drop rate.... when they do... the markets will crash more....  So if you are trying to make crafting useless..... why just not remove it?   It is like having every mob drop a status item..... why have status then? T4 gathering.... over 20 rares an hour..... just way too much.... If I wanted I could gather over 200 t4 rares in a day.... that is just one person..... multiply that by all the gatherers..... add the people that get rares from loot drops.. and the occasional farmers.... you are going to have steel clusters at like 12 gold etc.... again, was this what was intended?  AGAIN,  if so.. why not just take out regular crafted armor.... ( it would become even more useless then it is ), make rare armor the new norm...... and add a new tier of fabled crfated armor... ( for any sort of challenge.. or feeling of accomplishment as both a crafter of the armor and a wearer ) Anyways..... prices are in a free fall..... are insanely too low and still dropping..... I would just like to know if this was intended......  Hey I have a economics degree so I know how hard it is to make a micro change and have it affect the macro system.... but to me, obviously it was a big OOOOOOPS..... please change it... unless the desired affect was to destroy the crafting community....

[Lathaine]

it's too late, mastercraft is dead, commonmastercraft is born

[FoxRiverRanger]

<p>As a crafter, this change will not affect me that much.  I will continue to make and sell items.</p><p>As a harvester, this change may affect me.  I will earn less per rare harvest, but will harvest more rares.</p><p>As an adventurer this change will significantly disrupt my gameplay.  The combat system was tuned for a character in handcrafted, and in the lower tiers many characters still function effectively in a mix of handcrafted and treasured.  Mastercrafted/Adept III provides a viable option for a player to dedicate their character to acquiring, with each piece earned having a notable effect on the combat effectiveness of the character.  Sony has on numerous occassions retuned either itemization of player crafted gear or combat mechanics, and specifically have qouted the ease of obtaining Mastercrafted as the cause of one round of nerfs.  Once every character is full Mastercrafted with all Adept III skills, they will do it again to assure that their risk versus reward equation is maintained.  After that a player will no longer have the option to commit game time to acquiring Mastercrafted as a manner of upgrading their character.  Pandering to those that feel entitled to everything with minimal effort will only destroy the value of what is given to them for everyone.</p>

[metacell]

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just to clarify ... as stated, I'm looking into it this week, and yes, it will be tweaked a bit this week. The following will change: <ul><li>yet more pelts than meats (in 100 harvests, look for about 66 pelts and 33 meats)</li><li>fewer rares in T2+ -- so overall, a slightly higher rate of rares in T2-T6 than we had before GU37 (by no more than 0.22% at most - that in T2 and T3 - less than 0.1% difference everywhere else - with the exception of 2-rare nodes, see below)</li></ul>That said it will still FEEL like more rares than before GU37 for three main reasons: <ol><li>bushes now drop roots, so if you regularly harvest bushes, you'll end up with a lot more roots than you would have when they had no rare</li><li>nodes with 2 rares will drop rares more often.  Previously they were dropping rares at the same rate as other nodes which had only one rare.  This meant that they were actually dropping each individual rare type HALF as often as the rare from a single-type node like roots or dens, meaning only half as many rare loam, ore, soft metal, and gems were entering the world as rare roots or pelts.  So yes, these will now drop at the same rate as rare pelts.</li><li>the level at which you start using the bonus result table is now lower.  Prior to GU37, none of us could even use the bonus harvest result tables for T7 (OR T6) at all.  Now, we start having a chance to.</li></ol>For those who don't know what I'm referring to with the bonus result tables, harvesting works as follows.  (If you really don't care about details you can skip this bit.) For each node in each zone, when you harvest it, there are different result tables set up that tell the game what to give you when you harvest.  Your skill level determines which table you use. For example, using entirely invented numbers, let's imagine that there is a root node in a level 30-40 zone and you go and harvest it with a gathering skill of 190. The game sees that the root node points to two result tables.  Let's call them: T4_roots_base_result  - required skill 140 T4_roots_bonus_result - required skill 189 <ul><li>The "base" table might tell you that you have a 70% chance of getting 1 root, a 20% chance of getting 3 roots, an 8% chance of getting 5 roots, a 1% chance of getting an imbue, a 0.7% chance of getting a rare root, and a 0.3% chance of getting a rare root + 10 common ones. </li></ul><ul><li>The "bonus" table might tell you that you have a 60% chance of getting 1 root, a 25% chance of getting 3 roots, an 10% chance of getting 5 roots, a 0.5% chance of getting an imbue, a 0.8% chance of getting a rare root, and a 0.7% chance of getting a rare root + 10 common ones.</li></ul><span style="font-size: xx-small">(Yes, the numbers probably don't add up to 100%, I just invented them on the spot.)</span> Now we know that if your skill is under 140, you can't harvest the node at all.  And we know your skill is 190.  So the RNG rolls a number between 140 and 190.  If it gets 140-188, you use the "base" result table.  If it gets 189+, you use the "bonus" result table.  Clearly, as your gathering skill increases, your chance of using the "bonus" result table gets better.  (This is where +harvesting skill items affect your results, they increase your chance of using the bonus table.) As of GU37, you get to start using the "bonus" table at level _8 (so, 8, 18, 28, 38, etc.)  You're still not <i>guaranteed</i> to use it, but you have a <i>CHANCE</i> to use it.  Previous to GU37, the level at which you could start getting the bonus was much higher, so that you didn't even have a chance to get the bonus table until you had entirely outlevelled the tier.  In T6 and T7 prior to GU37 we still couldn't even start using the bonus level at level 70 with 350 skill, so we've been harvesting off the "base" table all this time.  Now we will begin to have a chance to use the "bonus" level, so yes, we'll get slightly better harvesting results in T6 and T7 than we were before, but it's actually about the same results as we would eventually have got as the level cap raised and we continued to level up. Incidentally, all nodes within a level range (in this example, all nodes in level 30-40 zones) point to the same result tables, so it makes no difference whether you're harvesting in one zone or another. This change will be hotfixed in this week if all goes well.  In the mean time consider it a little short-term bonus and enjoy. </blockquote>Thanks for a great post giving insight into the game mechanics, DominoDev. This is what people want <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> However, I think the rare harvest rate increase may be a little bigger than anticipated. As you describe it, out of the seven types of harvest nodes (timber, roots, dens, ore, stone, fish, food), two of them (ore, stone) have had their harvest rates effectively doubled, and one (food) of them has gone from zero rares to the same number of rares as the others. If we assume, for simplicity's sake, that a player harvests all nodes in the same amount, where he previously got 1 rare from timber, 1 from roots, 1 from dens, 1 from ore, 1 from stone, 1 from fish and 0 from food, he will now get 1 from timber, 1 from roots, 1 from dens, 2 from ore, 2 from stone, 1 from fish and 1 from food in the same amount of time. That's an increase from 6 to 9 rares from the same number of nodes, or an increase by 50%. Harvesters who ignore fishing nodes (like most do), will se a ratio of 5:8 instead, that is, a 60% increase in rares. If you harvest only stone and ore, you will see an increase of 100%. And that is <i>before</i> we take the harvest table changes into consideration - with those taken into account, the increase will be higher. The "0.22%" increase you are referring to must be the <i>percentage point</i> increase, not the <i>percentage</i> increase. For instance, if something increases from 0.44% to 0.66%, it has only increased by 0.22 <i>percentage points</i>, but it has at the same time increased with 50 <i>percent</i>, which is a huge change. Still, it's good that someone looks over the harvesting system and try to do something about the imbalances. If we just tweak down the rare harvest rate a little, I think the system will be better than before. I think it's really great of you to share all this with us. Keep up the good work!

[baddog]

its all fine an dandy to want to 'balance' rare harvesting rates, but ... T5 pelts have been 3g for months, T6 Cobalt was 35+ an its now 19g ! your dropping more rares than can possibly be sold , theres nowhere near the population leveling up to support it. after 3 YEARS your still mucking with drop rates, devaluing the entire crafting communities investment . My stock , in rares and finished product has dropped over %50 . We end up spending more time in front of the crafting stations for less ,   AGAIN. how much would Jewelers be making if Diamonds were 19g a carat and gold 100g a pound ? and how happy would your fiancee be with a $50 engagement ring ... I knew I was a 3rd class citizen since I don't raid, seldom group, and lived off the 'sweat' of my brow buying crap tradables from the elites . playing eq2 was a mistake

[Lathaine]

<p>just for clarify theory people have, here it's real number, drop rate are not 0,22% better not even 50% better, it's almost 1000% better.</p><p>When befor you could harvest 3H without have rare, or able to get 10 rare in same period time depend on bad or good run, atm you get 20 to 40 rare in the same time and even in bad run you ll have more than 15 rare where befor you could have NO ONE.</p><p>Easy to understand how it was important to fix it the first day... in less than 2 day the price of rare dropped half, mean a really BIG increase. One week and price will still drop even long time after it will be fix. It's too late. really too late.</p><p>Real mastercraft player cant enjoy this, only player who no want lose time in EQ can enjoy this, you want everything quick, rare was not supposed to be that way.</p><p>And sorry domino for me with this you lose all credit for all great thing you have done befor, why give some love to crafter and then kill it ? A real attention was need, but i see it's also community here who keep crying, and jumping they dont see more far than their nose.</p><p>PS : for people who say price no want say anything, that go up and down, it's nothing real. Price is EVERYTHING, humanity is rule by money, economie is everything. It's the only way to say if thing have value or not. and the value of craft was never so low, and will drop a lot in several day again, perhaps week or month. And dont think price of mastercraft will not follow price of rare.</p>

[Juddge]

<p>This is great! I am glad the rare drops have been increased a little and that pelts will drop more often now. It was insane to pay 70-90 gold for one blackened iron cluster or upwards of a plat for a steel cluster. I harvest 1-2 hrs a day in between other things waiting for groups or just waiting around harvesting and pvp'ing out in the open. Before I got maybe 1 rare every 3 days or so. Now I can get a rare a day whether it is a rare root/wood/loam metal rares I have not gotten one in over a week. They are the ones I most often need be it ore or soft metal. This has made the metal rares even with other types of rare it seems because before a blackened iron cluster went for 80g and other rares same tier went for 20g. Now BIC is 25-40g (will go lower I think hopefully) and other rares are 12-16g. </p><p> It would be obtuse to say that your time has been ruined and your trade made worthless because rares have dropped so much. So if you make armor yes the rares were very rare in and higher demand, but now you're more balanced towards people on other professions. Sorry you can't sell level 12/22/32 Mc gear for 1.5+ plat a piece anymore, but it never should have been priced that high to begin with. I noticed after level 32 the price on metal rares starts to decline. BIC/Steel is the most expensive on my server by far. </p><p>I think it leveled the playing field for crafters as in I'll be an armorer because that is where I can make the most money as to being tailor. And you might think hey my rate has gone down 50%, but guess what more people will begin to buy finished products. 1 person may buy your item for a plat, but 3 will buy it for 40g. This will stimulate economies with increased buying power because now people can afford it. The only way you lose out is if you purchased your rares to make finished items. Then yes you lost a bit, but like any market you took a chance. I started an alt had him locked in at level 12 for questing and pvp using random gears I looted quested for. When this hit and prices dropped from 75g for a BIC and 1.3 plat per MC piece guess what I went to the broker and bought a BIc set for him and the reduced price. Money made by someone I would not have otherwise spent because it was to costly for me to do so. I know I am not the only one who has gone out and equipped my toons with the best crafted items for my level now that they are cheaper.  The money it would have cost me to equip my level 12 with all mc is now enough at current prices to equip myself not only at level 12 but now also level 22. Business I would most likely not be giving to a crafter otherwise. So same amount of time harvesting = more rares to craft into items = bit more time to craft the extra items to sell = more sales = more money over time.</p>

[Jrral]

<cite>kukubird wrote:</cite><blockquote>Also, people still haven't grasped the rare drop rate.... when they do... the markets will crash more....  So if you are trying to make crafting useless..... why just not remove it?   It is like having every mob drop a status item..... why have status then?</blockquote>I guess my question in return would be: as either a crafter or adventurer, why should I <i>care</i> whether the market crashes or not? As a crafter, lower prices on the market mean more people able to afford raws, which means more money for me making mastercrafted (fuel cost is constant, raws I harvest, and my customers supply the rares). As an adventurer, lower market prices mean I can buy rares for my equipment cheaper. Yes it means I can't get as much for my loot (maybe, because so far I haven't seen much of an effect on prices for the run-of-the-mill loot), but if I can harvest what I need in a reasonable time (say an hour or two of harvest time per rare needed) and only need a fraction as much to buy a rare off the broker I don't need to make an insane killing in sales anymore. I honestly get the feeling that the only people worried about the current drop rate are the market speculators. And I can't come up with a truly good reason why the game should be balanced around market speculation and people asking 50g for a T3 Adept3 that costs less than 6s in fuel to make if you (or your customer) harvested the rare.

[lilmohi]

<cite>baddog wrote:</cite><blockquote>its all fine an dandy to want to 'balance' rare harvesting rates, but ... T5 pelts have been 3g for months, T6 Cobalt was 35+ an its now 19g ! your dropping more rares than can possibly be sold , theres nowhere near the population leveling up to support it. after 3 YEARS your still mucking with drop rates, devaluing the entire crafting communities investment . My stock , in rares and finished product has dropped over %50 . We end up spending more time in front of the crafting stations for less ,   AGAIN. how much would Jewelers be making if Diamonds were 19g a carat and gold 100g a pound ? and how happy would your fiancee be with a $50 engagement ring ... I knew I was a 3rd class citizen since I don't raid, seldom group, and lived off the 'sweat' of my brow buying crap tradables from the elites . playing eq2 was a mistake </blockquote><p>The cost of rares has nothing to do with the value of crafting, it's in the desirability of the final product.  Once apon a time i made tons of money selling Handcrafted gear despite the fact that the components had essentially 0 value. </p><p>The fact is the powers that be a while back increased the drop rate of loot at all levels (Treasured, Legendary & Fabled).   Just before Dof came out i had about half hand crafted/treasured and a couple mastercrafted items.  Just before KoS came out i had a full set of mastercrafted and a couple legendary items.  Before EoF came out i had a full set of legendary, and a couple treasured items that are better than any legendary item.  Since the game has released my playstyle hasn't changed and is 90% solo with an occasional pickup group or guild group.</p><p>Now since MC gear is only slightly better than the average treasured item (worse than the best treasured items) that even at T7 sells for about 16gp and you can buy mid range legendary items at T7 for about 80gp (and it's only that high because of transmuting).  Therefore the only way anyone would want a Mastercrafted piece of gear is if it prices somewhere between those extremes.  Splitting the difference means on average MC gear needs to sell for about 30-35gp at T7, and since fuel costs aprox 10 gp (i think), you have to be able to buy rares for 20-25gp just to break even.</p><p>The abundance of rares is actually a boon for crafting since the lower prices will mean a greater demand for our product, greater profit margin and therefore more profit.  As it is about the only sales we make are to twinkers who want the convenience of a buying a full set of armor, and the occasional piece of gear that doesn't have much drop lot for that slot.</p><p>The person above is mad because he speculated on the market (buying cheap rares, and reselling them for more) and is getting burned.  I feel sorry for him, but this has nothing to do with crafting whatsoever.</p>

[aardda]

<cite>baddog wrote:</cite><blockquote>its all fine an dandy to want to 'balance' rare harvesting rates, but ... T5 pelts have been 3g for months, T6 Cobalt was 35+ an its now 19g ! your dropping more rares than can possibly be sold , theres nowhere near the population leveling up to support it. after 3 YEARS your still mucking with drop rates, devaluing the entire crafting communities investment . My stock , in rares and finished product has dropped over %50 . We end up spending more time in front of the crafting stations for less ,   AGAIN. how much would Jewelers be making if Diamonds were 19g a carat and gold 100g a pound ? and how happy would your fiancee be with a $50 engagement ring ... I knew I was a 3rd class citizen since I don't raid, seldom group, and lived off the 'sweat' of my brow buying crap tradables from the elites . playing eq2 was a mistake </blockquote><p>I have 12 adventurers and 9 crafters, i also don't raid, and i predominantly solo/2box and still make enough cash to get buy. </p><p>I for one have no sympathy whatsoever for those who horded rares trying to get rich. Plenty of us harvest/craft purely for the love of crafting and not to try and get rich, unlike all those level 70 adventurers/level 1 artisans i see cherrypicking just the ore nodes for rares to sell.</p><p>While the drop rates were a little high, i wouldn't like to see it reduced back to what it was, somewhere more in the middle would be perfect. </p>

[MullenSkywatcher]

Kudos to you Domino for addressing this.  Too bad the forums didn't dissolve into a single negative point of singularity while you were a Fan Faire.  Take some anger management courses people!  Sheesh!

[Bloodfa]

Jrral@Unrest wrote: <blockquote><cite>kukubird wrote:</cite><blockquote>Also, people still haven't grasped the rare drop rate.... when they do... the markets will crash more....  So if you are trying to make crafting useless..... why just not remove it?   It is like having every mob drop a status item..... why have status then?</blockquote>I guess my question in return would be: as either a crafter or adventurer, why should I <i>care</i> whether the market crashes or not? As a crafter, lower prices on the market mean more people able to afford raws, which means more money for me making mastercrafted (fuel cost is constant, raws I harvest, and my customers supply the rares). As an adventurer, lower market prices mean I can buy rares for my equipment cheaper. Yes it means I can't get as much for my loot (maybe, because so far I haven't seen much of an effect on prices for the run-of-the-mill loot), but if I can harvest what I need in a reasonable time (say an hour or two of harvest time per rare needed) and only need a fraction as much to buy a rare off the broker I don't need to make an insane killing in sales anymore. I honestly get the feeling that the only people worried about the current drop rate are the market speculators. And I can't come up with a truly good reason why the game should be balanced around market speculation and people asking 50g for a T3 Adept3 that costs less than 6s in fuel to make if you (or your customer) harvested the rare. </blockquote><p>Bingo.  How many are in it to have fun and how many are in it to play Monopoly?  Fool a little with the market in real life and you run the risk of getting burned. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>How many PvP crafters are honestly upset?  I know that there are two sets of rules for the game, if nerfs or adjustments are coming, hopefully they'll take that into consideration.  I can sell a pristine imbued steel rapier for more than I bought my xegonite one for. <img src="/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[EQ2Magroo]

<p>I love the fact that we now get an idea of how harvesting rolls are calculated. Makes me feel that those buffs are worthwhile now.</p><p>As to the "problem" of rares increasing in drop rate, I don't mind a bit.</p><p>If you're a casual player it means you can finally get some decent armor at the lower levels without having to spend mega cash. 1PP for 1 piece of steel ? Crazy. Now I can buy 1 for a lot less, perhaps only 30g or so on my server. This makes it possible for me to buy a whole set of armor. Previously I just wouldn't have bothered with any MC, so this change is actually making me give more money to crafters, not less.</p><p>As for those who have stored up items and now complain they are worth less...well, I don't even know where to start on how wrong that attitude is so will just say "You know what, you're right. Now move along".</p><p>If rare prices drop then hopefully the farmers will stop. Same goes for those players who run bot harvesters whilst they are AFK.</p><p>In my view (I have level 4 lvl 70 crafters BTW) crafters should make their money from their time and effort, not from marking up the costs on the raws. I spent a lot of cash on those recipies and also a long time levelling, and if you don't want to pay for that effort then you can level your own crafter to make your item. People sometimes say "but making the item is only a few clicks of the mouse" to which I say "it won't take you long to make it yourself then will it ?". They usually accept that they're not paying for the act of making the item, but the time and expense of getting to a point where you are able to make it. </p><p>If rares drop in price it won't effect my business model at all, it just means there will be more people looking for a crafter to make stuff so I have a much larger potential pool of customers. I guess there will be other crafters than undercut me on the amount they charge, but hey, that's market forces and I don't have a problem with that at all.</p>

[Rast]

<p>The one part of all of this that people are ignoring is the supply side of the equation.  Not just harveting increases, but the price decreases making it less likely that 'bots' and professional harvesters will want to spend their time doing what is no longer worth their time.  This will cause an over all drop in the supply which will, in the end, counter some of the high supply we are seeing now.</p><p>I see the prices coming down more, but IMO, this isn't a bad thing, since MC gear is supposed to fall between treasured and legendary, that is where it's cost should be too.  Right now, MC gear runs with alot of legendary in price and well over the cost of the treasured.  This should allow for pricing to be more within the tiering as it should be.</p><p>and anyone who thinks 1pp+ for a steel cluster was a good price...  Well, let's just say, I think you need to seek medical advice for head trauma.</p>

[kukubird]

People say they craft for the fun of it.... other say I love it it will level the palying field.... easy mode!.... Others say hey I can now sell a ton more!  I will make more money as rares are so cheap! Come on people extrapolate beyond your noses<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   Yeah palladium is down to 9g.. and still going lower.... so now you can pick up a palladium and craft it into that 60g item?  Sell 10 a day?  Nope.... hey maybe you could craft it into a 40g item?  Nope I know you can currently craft it into a 22g item with 10 other crafters buying palladiums for 9g and all list em at 22g.... BUT WAIT IT GETS BETTER.... hey my 22g palladium jewelery isn't selling... why? ohhhhh!!! becuase 5 other people undercut me..... I guess I better lower mine.... ok hmm 12g for a finished palladium piece.. and there are still 10 people trying to list and sell to the limted consumer market.... So if you arguement was you will be making more money.. nope.. and it is getting worse hour by hour.... trust me you are not going to sell 50 palladium bangles to make up for the 2 you sold before patch..... OK OK OK so now we look at the adventurers view... hey buddy I just got full mastercrafted... all adept ii's for my toon at lvl 20 and only paid 2 plat!..... SO?  Everyone has that now.... ohh ok nothing special then.. just the norm... Taking out the incentives is stupid.... someone pointed out that why not make a button that poofs you to lvl 70?  OK OK people complain about the grind.... leveling from 10 -70.... but you know what? with all great gear and your whole groups having great gear..... where is any sort of challenge or feeling of accomplishment?  It actually becomes more of a grind .... and leveling is just time consuming and boring... I could go on forever..... but I don't convery my thoughts as well as others.... Here is an example about a year ago they made it so every named dropped master chest for 3 days... like the goblin easy named in dof etc... masters where being farmed 10-40 a day lvl 50+... people told the few who said it was going to kill the master market to shut up!  They loved the drop rate.... They only pictured what they were getting and not how it affected the server market.... soon masters where everywhere.. evryone was fully decked out and masters were dirt cheap.... everyone started to say hey this is no good.. masters are worth nothing and no fun to get... More thought has to be put into these changes... and next time maybe done gradually?... keep tweaking the rate until the desired affect happens to the servers....  I highly doubt they wanted to make rares like 5g etc for t3.. if I am wrong.. then there is no point arguing or posting anymore anyways....  I am all for getting rare stuff to the normal players etc... but don't we all want it to mean something when it does?   I am sure people will pick a line in my bable and flame the heck out of me... that is ok...  Even though I took full advantage of harvesting masters those 3 days they dropped like water way back... I was then one of the few who was saying they needed to nerf it fast... took 3 days and 2- 3 nerfs... before it did all the harm. Anyways.. this is a forum so debate! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I just see no possible good coming from this big and deep a change.... And yes, I think steel, feysteel etc should have been upped some also <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />...... but like I said I got 67 t4 raws other day 2 hours.... that is insane.. yeah you say I should be happy <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but not when it means nothing...

[dartie]

<cite>Lathaine wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>1) just for clarify theory people have, here it's real number, drop rate are not 0,22% better not even 50% better, it's almost 1000% better.</p><p>2) When befor you could harvest 3H without have rare, or able to get 10 rare in same period time depend on bad or good run, atm you get 20 to 40 rare in the same time and even in bad run you ll have more than 15 rare where befor you could have NO ONE.</p><p>3) Easy to understand how it was important to fix it the first day... in less than 2 day the price of rare dropped half, mean a really BIG increase. One week and price will still drop even long time after it will be fix. It's too late. really too late.</p><p>4) Real mastercraft player cant enjoy this, only player who no want lose time in EQ can enjoy this, you want everything quick, rare was not supposed to be that way.</p><p>5) And sorry domino for me with this you lose all credit for all great thing you have done befor, why give some love to crafter and then kill it ? A real attention was need, but i see it's also community here who keep crying, and jumping they dont see more far than their nose.</p><p>6) PS : for people who say price no want say anything, that go up and down, it's nothing real. Price is EVERYTHING, humanity is rule by money, economie is everything. It's the only way to say if thing have value or not. and the value of craft was never so low, and will drop a lot in several day again, perhaps week or month. And dont think price of mastercraft will not follow price of rare.</p></blockquote><p>Lathaine, I'm not as handy with manipulating quoted materials as some folks, so I've numbered your paragraphs and will try to respond to them each because I do share some of your concerns.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">1) just for clarify theory people have, here it's real number, drop rate are not 0,22% better not even 50% better, it's almost 1000% better.</span></p><p>Like you, I agree that the percentages we are being given by Domino are not consistent with my experience while harvesting or my observations of price changes on the broker.  I don't know that I would go as high as your 1000%, but my guess is that rare drops have increased to 2.5 to 3 times what they were.  I also share your concern that the devs seem not at all fased by what this means to the game.  (I won't share your focus on the economy, but I think the devs haven't considered how many mobs they will have to scale up and how many encounters they will have to change in response to a massive increase in the number of twinks.)</p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">2) When befor you could harvest 3H without have rare, or able to get 10 rare in same period time depend on bad or good run, atm you get 20 to 40 rare in the same time and even in bad run you ll have more than 15 rare where befor you could have NO ONE.</span></p><p>Maybe the increase is as dramatic as you suggest, but I did spend 20 minutes harvesting T4 without getting a rare, so I think this claim of yours is hyperbolic.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">3) Easy to understand how it was important to fix it the first day... in less than 2 day the price of rare dropped half, mean a really BIG increase. One week and price will still drop even long time after it will be fix. It's too late. really too late.</span></p><p>Here's where I agree with you most strongly.  It really does appear to be too late.  People have already stockpiled rares by the stacks of 50.  I stopped at 200 coral, 200 silver, 250 alkaline loam, 200 jasper, 150 palladium, 100 malleable loam, 100 opal, 100 ruthenium, 100 ductile loam, 100 ruby, 100 rhodium, 100 pearl, 100 vanadium, 75 moonstone, and 50 acrylia.  (Domino is welcome to check my account to verify that horde.)</p><p>The crazy thing is I am not a big-time player in the rare market.  I suspect based on watching the broker that there are scads of more serious players who make my own horde look trivial.  </p><p>These rares are already banked by dozens of players on every server.</p><p>Now, for the sake of getting somewhere, PLEASE DON'T THINK ABOUT THE PRICE OF THE RARES, AS THAT HAS ONLY AN INCIDENTAL RELATIONSHIP TO THE WAY MOST PLAYERS PLAY THE GAME.  Instead, think about the forthcoming release of Kunark and the fact that the new T1 and T2 content is going to be a huge turnoff to most players because it will present ZERO CHALLENGE to them with their AD3 spells and their complete sets of m/c gear.</p><p>Like you, I'm astonished that the devs appear completely unconcerned about this flood of rare materials.  But even more like you, I really think it's too late to do anything about it at this point.  The rares are already in banks by the thousands.  </p><p>Since it is too late in my opinion, I don't see the point in complaining about it.  I guess we'll just have to wait and see how the devs react when they finally realize that they have to react.  Reducing the rare drop rate won't help--at least not for a long while.  Horders could keep the market supplied probably longer than any dev is willing to concede.</p><p>The choices the combat devs will have to make will involve making the mobs stronger (and having to recode mobs for all the T1-T5 areas of the game), setting up a more complicated social aggro system, or nerfing m/c gear.  I've already indicated which solution I suspect they'll opt for (nerfage), but it could be that they have a grand plan in place.  We'll see how they respond when they respond.  But right now, it looks like they just don't see how important it is for them to respond in some way.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">4) Real mastercraft player cant enjoy this, only player who no want lose time in EQ can enjoy this, you want everything quick, rare was not supposed to be that way.</span></p><p>Here's a rebuttal that I can imagine to your take on this point (which I happen to share):  Maybe their market research indicates that most players really want to blow through the lower tiers in top gear with no challenge at all.  Maybe they intend to leave drop rates at this level and to allow m/c gear to stay just as good as it is so that folks can get to 80 lickety-split.  But my suspicion is that they don't really "intend" anything--that this rare flood is a glitch that just isn't receiving attention because Domino has tradeskill writs to think about and Smedley has his card game to think about and no one is really thinking about the longterm consequences of universal twinkage.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">5) And sorry domino for me with this you lose all credit for all great thing you have done befor, why give some love to crafter and then kill it ? A real attention was need, but i see it's also community here who keep crying, and jumping they dont see more far than their nose.</span></p><p>I don't see any reason to cast aspersions on Domino, who is trying to respond to the crafting community according to her best sense of how to do her job.  I think it's sort of crazy that whoever approved the change to rare drop rates appears not to have thought through the consequences of doing so on the game.  I also think that whatever was approved made a sort of mathematical sense to the approving authority that has NOTHING to do with the real in-game consequences of the change.</p><p>I'm beginning to think that SOE doesn't consider MMORPG economies very thoughtfully.  I always assumed there were statistical models and sound theories behind decisions to drain __ money from or pump ___ money into the economy.  I assumed there was someone at SOE who watched certain economic indicators for signs of duping or other exploits.  I'm pretty well convinced at this point that there is no such person--no system for monitoring the economy.  The decision to increase the rare drop rate, multiply the number of potential sellers by 7, and increase the amount of time each seller remains active by 7 days is a fair indication that there is no careful monitoring of the EQ2 economy (a pity in my opinion--since there are presumably scads of grad students in business/economics who would be happy to do it as some kind of work-study).  The powers that be clearly think nothing of introducing multiple huge variables into the economic equation all at once--so that there is really no pinpointing which causes prompt which effects.  If SOE bothered to appoint an Alan Greenspan type figure to each MMORPG economy, I suspect their crackdowns on RMT would meet with far greater success, but how could such a person perform his job when a single update can introduce so many new factors into an economy?</p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">6) PS : for people who say price no want say anything, that go up and down, it's nothing real. Price is EVERYTHING, humanity is rule by money, economie is everything. It's the only way to say if thing have value or not. and the value of craft was never so low, and will drop a lot in several day again, perhaps week or month. And dont think price of mastercraft will not follow price of rare.</span></p><p>Although I am able to follow all of your points, it sounds to me as if English is not your first language--which may be why your tone comes across as shrill and desperate.  Whether you horded rares for profit or not, the way you've phrased this argument makes you sound like a failed speculator.  You aren't going to get any sympathy that way--not even from me, since I'm one of the failed speculators who bought rares while they were on the way down.  (They still appear to be a ways from bottoming out, so I've lost money on my "horde" as well as on the m/c gear that I crafted and put on the broker before the rate change.  I estimate that I have lost more than 200 plat as a consequence of this change, but there's a lot to be said for an "easy come, easy go" attitude.  Seriously, dude, it's a game.  We took our chances and lost.  Try something else.  There's no reason to get upset.)</p><p>As long as you keep barking about the economy, the adventurers are just going to ignore you.  You have to focus on things that matter to players.  Then again, the devs' lack of attention to this crazy spike in rares has me wondering whether you are the only one who is failing to think about what people look for in a game--a sense of challenge, a sense of accomplishment, and fun. </p>

[Rast]

<cite>kukubird wrote:</cite><blockquote>People say they craft for the fun of it.... other say I love it it will level the palying field.... easy mode!.... Others say hey I can now sell a ton more!  I will make more money as rares are so cheap! Come on people extrapolate beyond your noses<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   Yeah palladium is down to 9g.. and still going lower.... so now you can pick up a palladium and craft it into that 60g item?  Sell 10 a day?  Nope.... hey maybe you could craft it into a 40g item?  Nope I know you can currently craft it into a 22g item with 10 other crafters buying palladiums for 9g and all list em at 22g.... BUT WAIT IT GETS BETTER.... hey my 22g palladium jewelery isn't selling... why? ohhhhh!!! becuase 5 other people undercut me..... I guess I better lower mine.... ok hmm 12g for a finished palladium piece.. and there are still 10 people trying to list and sell to the limted consumer market.... So if you arguement was you will be making more money.. nope.. and it is getting worse hour by hour.... trust me you are not going to sell 50 palladium bangles to make up for the 2 you sold before patch..... OK OK OK so now we look at the adventurers view... hey buddy I just got full mastercrafted... all adept ii's for my toon at lvl 20 and only paid 2 plat!..... SO?  Everyone has that now.... ohh ok nothing special then.. just the norm... Taking out the incentives is stupid.... someone pointed out that why not make a button that poofs you to lvl 70?  OK OK people complain about the grind.... leveling from 10 -70.... but you know what? with all great gear and your whole groups having great gear..... where is any sort of challenge or feeling of accomplishment?  It actually becomes more of a grind .... and leveling is just time consuming and boring... I could go on forever..... but I don't convery my thoughts as well as others.... Here is an example about a year ago they made it so every named dropped master chest for 3 days... like the goblin easy named in dof etc... masters where being farmed 10-40 a day lvl 50+... people told the few who said it was going to kill the master market to shut up!  They loved the drop rate.... They only pictured what they were getting and not how it affected the server market.... soon masters where everywhere.. evryone was fully decked out and masters were dirt cheap.... everyone started to say hey this is no good.. masters are worth nothing and no fun to get... More thought has to be put into these changes... and next time maybe done gradually?... keep tweaking the rate until the desired affect happens to the servers....  I highly doubt they wanted to make rares like 5g etc for t3.. if I am wrong.. then there is no point arguing or posting anymore anyways....  I am all for getting rare stuff to the normal players etc... but don't we all want it to mean something when it does?   I am sure people will pick a line in my bable and flame the heck out of me... that is ok...  Even though I took full advantage of harvesting masters those 3 days they dropped like water way back... I was then one of the few who was saying they needed to nerf it fast... took 3 days and 2- 3 nerfs... before it did all the harm. Anyways.. this is a forum so debate! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I just see no possible good coming from this big and deep a change.... And yes, I think steel, feysteel etc should have been upped some also <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />...... but like I said I got 67 t4 raws other day 2 hours.... that is insane.. yeah you say I should be happy <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but not when it means nothing... </blockquote><p> There is NO way a piece of mastercrafted gear should cost 2-3x the cost of a piece of legendary of the similiar tier.  It is 'itemized' to fall between the treasured and legendary, so that is where it's price should be too.  That is where the difficulty of obtaining it should be as well.</p><p>This 'increase' in raws is something that has been coming ever since LU24 and the supreme nerf crafted gear got, it is just now going to be 'worth it' to get mastercrafted.  I refused to make any of my alts feysteel armor.  Why, might you ask?  Because I could come up with no rational judgement other than vanity to purchase armor that would cost AT MINIMUM of 7p to make for a level 32 toon.  Not when treasured gear (while not nearly as good) would suit me nearly as well.</p>

[Juddge]

<p>         In a guild with 200 accounts no one has experienced the kind fo increase in rare finds that some folks talk about. 67 rares in 2 hrs? Exaggeration or flat out lie. I have been out gathering and still feel lucky when I find one. From t1-t6. I have toons all diff lvls and I gather with them all when I play them. </p><p>          You say you have lost estimated 200 plat? How did you lose it? You harvest your rares therefore anything you get is profit because it cost you nothing. You dont lose what you never had. EXAMPLE:  So you had 10 items that went for 1 plat each. Now you have 10 items that go for 10g each. Does that mean you lost 9 plat? No you're gaining 1 plat. because you didnt have the 10 plat to start with you had 10 items to start with. it is profit either way you look at it unless you're a speculator and lost out, tough break get over it to thsoe who speculated. </p><p>         Some say it makes the content of game to easy PVE that is. Umm so if I have a high lvl to give plat to my lowbie char or just buy plat from china that means i have the right to breeze threw content? If MC makes game to easy thats an entirely diff issue that what it costs or how its obtained. Not even taking into account PVP servers where MC is  the minimum required to survive one you hit lvl 12+. W/o mc and adept 3 you most likely wont stand a chance vs all the twinsk faction/title farmers.</p><p> There is one reason only for complaint you dont get to make tons of plat anymore by selling t2 rare for 80g to twinks and plat buyers. Don't hide behind newbs want the content to be easy because noobs dont buy your gear or rares they can't afford it. Now they can. Twinks and plat buyers are your customers at low levels not the new player. So now you cant milk twinks and plat buyers as much but you gained new players as your customer. evens it out. Speaking of higher tier.</p><p>The higher the tier the lower the price of rares I have noticed because less demand in general due to having other armor options. We can kill names for good items or camp a name or raid or buy pvp armor.</p><p>Good deal it is.</p>

[kukubird]

Judge... flat out lie huh? Ok maybe you should go try it and then see what you say.... and it is only for t4 and below. Again, you included being lucky to get a rare in t2?  Come on you didn't even try for more then a node..or would know that t2 currently you can get over 30 rares in an hour....  It is completely insane. But thanks for calling me a liar.. I appreciate it.  Also I welcome the Dev that is working on this to go check my logs..... and see if my number are correct... and when you see they are.. was this intended I ask again.   You further assume that my only concern is that I can't make tons of plat, like I had some magical stranglehold on the economy that nobody with a little effort ( gasp! ) could repeat.  Sorry, that is not the case, even though I don't see why effort shoudln't be rewarded.  I am posting this because I am concerned for the game I have played for 2 years....  You sound like the people in general chat when almost every named ( trash or not ) was dropping master 50+...... Yay! this is great!  Don't nerf the master drops... well it devasted the market... evryone 50+ had masters and tons of extra selling for nothing on broker... until they nerfed it back to normal.  I am afraid people that make the arguments they do for a non challenging game whatsoever are not looking at the big picture or will be gone after they are bored in a month. But I truly do thank you for calling me a liar!  No why don't you go actually try it for 1 solid hour of gathering to see.  Lastly, just becuase you choose not to equip your toon in mastercrafted and adept iii's etc.... and treasured was fine for you.... I ask why shouldn't there be different levels of geared players... with reward given for effort in attaining items you have to work a little for?  Now there is no effort... and well with it no sense of reward. If you don't think there should... maybe a first person shooter with just one type of gun is more your playstyle.

[Calthine]

Whoa.  Dudes.  It's a game.  Domino is tweaking.  Relax.

[Gnobrin]

<p>Whoa all, please keep the input constructive.  If this continues to degrade into a fight club, it'll be locked.</p><p>~Gnobrin.</p>

[Cadori Seraphim]

<cite>kukubird wrote:</cite><blockquote>Judge... flat out lie huh? Ok maybe you should go try it and then see what you say.... and it is only for t4 and below. Again, you included being lucky to get a rare in t2?  Come on you didn't even try for more then a node..or would know that t2 currently you can get over 30 rares in an hour....  It is completely insane. But thanks for calling me a liar.. I appreciate it.  Also I welcome the Dev that is working on this to go check my logs..... and see if my number are correct... and when you see they are.. was this intended I ask again.   You further assume that my only concern is that I can't make tons of plat, like I had some magical stranglehold on the economy that nobody with a little effort ( gasp! ) could repeat.  Sorry, that is not the case, even though I don't see why effort shoudln't be rewarded.  I am posting this because I am concerned for the game I have played for 2 years....  You sound like the people in general chat when almost every named ( trash or not ) was dropping master 50+...... Yay! this is great!  Don't nerf the master drops... well it devasted the market... evryone 50+ had masters and tons of extra selling for nothing on broker... until they nerfed it back to normal.  I am afraid people that make the arguments they do for a non challenging game whatsoever are not looking at the big picture or will be gone after they are bored in a month. But I truly do thank you for calling me a liar!  No why don't you go actually try it for 1 solid hour of gathering to see.  Lastly, just becuase you choose not to equip your toon in mastercrafted and adept iii's etc.... and treasured was fine for you.... I ask why shouldn't there be different levels of geared players... with reward given for effort in attaining items you have to work a little for?  Now there is no effort... and well with it no sense of reward. If you don't think there should... maybe a first person shooter with just one type of gun is more your playstyle. </blockquote>I wasnt the one you are talking to here but I have to say, I *did* go harvesting for an hour the other day and definately did not get 30 rares lol Am not calling you a lier, more so lucky as I would have loved to get the rares people are talking about. On a side note I think its crazy that alot of the lower tiered rares go for so much, it makes it near impossible for new players to get the much needed gear made  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Snapdragyn]

<p>I've harvested a bit over 5 hours over the past 2 days in EL. I've been getting around 6-8 rares/hour in that time, though it is (as all things RNG) streaky -- I got 3 rares across 3 consecutive nodes last night (1 rare/node for a run of 3 nodes, that is), but also had a 20ish minute run w/ no rares. Interestingly enough, I also saw almost half of my rares from last night as rare woods - seemed weird given the fact that the real upswing is supposed to be in ore/rock rares, although there were admittedly a LOT of wood nodes around (seriously, who is clearcutting Norrath's forests? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   ).</p><p>One other interesting point -- the rate at which I'm getting imbue materials now is actually as low as the rate at which I would get rares pre-GU37, about 1/hour.</p><p>Disclaimer: I speak only for my own experience over few limited runs, & make no attempt to deduce the actual mathematics being applied to harvesting gamewide from this. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Frellnick]

Bear in mind that individual experiences with regard to harvesting will vary wildly based on harvesting tier, time spent, the RNG etc. So people will naturally experience big differences in how much success they have while harvesting. There is no need to discredit other people reports  on rares gained/per hour for this reason. The real measure of rare supply is the broker, because  it measures the collective rare supply (i.e. a bi gger sample of behaviour). And the broker has show n a huge and dramatic price drop that began with t he introduction of the update. Having said that, I'd agree with the suggestion that imbuing materials appear to have become the new rare, because I don't seem to be picking them up at any greater rate. The real impacts of the economic changes may only become evident in a month or more down the track, because that is the point where more people will have levelled their crafters under the new higher speed levelling system. The EQII economy may progressively move along the continuum from fr ee market to a more socialist economic model; indi viduals will not only be crafting for themselves,  but also for their guild. Theoretically a guild ne eds only one of each trade at 70 crafting and it n ever has to buy from the broker again.  However, this may be counter-balanced by the reduced cost of goods, encouraging people to buy more often and not spend the time/resources required to level a crafter. Some people will never have any interest crafting no matter what. It'll be interesting to see how this pans out. The  economy is definitely different. But a different  economy is not a broken economy. It's just a matte r of adapting. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[ZeyGnome]

<p>My experience:</p><p>I set a kitchen timer for one hour and went to Antonica and just harvested.  This is the results when the timer dinged:</p><p>1 Severed Bone 2 Rough Coral 2 Glowing Items 3 Cured Pelt 4 Sisal Roots 5 Silver Clusters 8 Blackened Iron Clusters</p><p>That's 23 rares and 2 imbues in exactly one hour.  That's a bit much don't you think? (Not that I mind getting rares for a change, but they're not so rare now)</p><p>I am a 350 in all harvesting though, so that might have helped, but it is still a bit much.</p>

[dartie]

<cite>Frellnick wrote:</cite><blockquote>Bear in mind that individual experiences with regard to harvesting will vary wildly based on harvesting tier, time spent, the RNG etc. So people will naturally experience big differences in how much success they have while harvesting. There is no need to discredit other people reports  on rares gained/per hour for this reason. The real measure of rare supply is the broker, because  it measures the collective rare supply (i.e. a bi gger sample of behaviour). And the broker has show n a huge and dramatic price drop that began with t he introduction of the update. Having said that, I'd agree with the suggestion that imbuing materials appear to have become the new rare, because I don't seem to be picking them up at any greater rate. The real impacts of the economic changes may only become evident in a month or more down the track, because that is the point where more people will have levelled their crafters under the new higher speed levelling system. The EQII economy may progressively move along the continuum from fr ee market to a more socialist economic model; indi viduals will not only be crafting for themselves,  but also for their guild. Theoretically a guild ne eds only one of each trade at 70 crafting and it n ever has to buy from the broker again.  However, this may be counter-balanced by the reduced cost of goods, encouraging people to buy more often and not spend the time/resources required to level a crafter. Some people will never have any interest crafting no matter what. It'll be interesting to see how this pans out. The  economy is definitely different. But a different  economy is not a broken economy. It's just a matte r of adapting. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p>Amen brudda.</p><p>Even though I have fears about the consequences this will have on the gear I am allowed to make 2 months from now, I am having a blast in the new economy.</p><p>Powders and infusions are still largely overpriced, but it's a cinch to buy the rares I need for a half dozen ad3s, whip them up, mung them, and make legendary adornments I never bothered with before.  I'm also having a heck of a lot of fun finally getting to make the jeweler/alchy ad3s that I could never afford to keep in stock with the old prices on alkali loam.  (I know folks think the changes don't really reach into T5, but the simple fact is that alkali loam used to run 1.5 to 2p on my server, and now it's 60-80 gp.  Here I think Domino's doubling of a specific node's rare worked just about exactly as intended, but I may be oversimplifying.)</p>

[kukubird]

Well if I sounded a bit confrontational I apologize <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Anyways, yes I am level 70... 48 run speed mount... the lvl 60+ gather tools.... so basically the fastest you can get for harvesting.... I do know that for example on my lvl 40 tradeskiller I don't get close to that amount of rares.. and maybe even fewer then 8 harvesting for example el. Harvesting can be boring but until it is hotfixed I am making a game out of gathering rares.. see how many I can get t4 with my 70 in an hour.. and try to beat it lol.

[Jrral]

<cite>kukubird wrote:</cite><blockquote>BUT WAIT IT GETS BETTER.... hey my 22g palladium jewelery isn't selling... why? ohhhhh!!! becuase 5 other people undercut me..... I guess I better lower mine.... ok hmm 12g for a finished palladium piece.. and there are still 10 people trying to list and sell to the limted consumer market.... </blockquote>12g for a T3 item? Umm... I hate to break it to you, but my formula for pricing's 1g per tier of the item plus fuel cost (which really only becomes a factor at T5 and higher). This may explain why your market's limited...

[Juddge]

<p>I decided to do an hour of harvesting w/o any distractions.</p><p>In 1 hour this is what I got.</p><p>76 pigmeat 76 lion meat 62 carbonite cluster 108 gold cluster 92 boiled leather 76 pliant loam 142 belladonna root 168 severed ash 40 fayberry 58 oolong tea leaf 49 sweet onion</p><p> 947 non -rare</p><p>rares</p><p> 2 x dandelion fiber 2 x malleable loam 2 steel cluster 4 x palladium cluster 1 x rough jasper 2 x severed fir 3 cuiboilli leather pelt</p><p>2 glimmering stone</p><p>thats 18 rare types </p><p>I see an increase yes but something huge i havent. Thats about  1.9%.</p>

[Ouch]

<p>Assuming you  are a caster, in 3 hours of harvest you will have enough rares to upgrade 15 spells and this is assuming you dont trade the other rares.  If you do trade you can upgrade spell and gear for the entire tier (that is 10 lvl)</p><p> With the current drop rate,   the market for adept 1 and aprrenctice 4 will be unexistant in 1-2 weeks. Malleable loam on my server are already under 1 gold.</p>

[Gilamarth]

Jrral@Unrest wrote: <blockquote><cite>kukubird wrote:</cite><blockquote>BUT WAIT IT GETS BETTER.... hey my 22g palladium jewelery isn't selling... why? ohhhhh!!! becuase 5 other people undercut me..... I guess I better lower mine.... ok hmm 12g for a finished palladium piece.. and there are still 10 people trying to list and sell to the limted consumer market.... </blockquote>12g for a T3 item? Umm... I hate to break it to you, but my formula for pricing's 1g per tier of the item plus fuel cost (which really only becomes a factor at T5 and higher). This may explain why your market's limited... </blockquote> 12G for a Mastercrafted item on the broker where the crafter either had to spend the time harvesting and finding the rare themselves or buying the rare on the broker, crafting it to a MC piece, then selling the MC piece at a price to include Rare (9g) + Fuels + Raws + Time/Books + a bit of Profit.  Of course ya could sell it at Rare + Fuel + 1 copper, but that would still be 9g+.  If you buy the rare at 9g on the broker and yer pricing is just at Fuel + 3g ya'd be taking a bit of a loss there.  If ya don't want to get any coin for the rare itself you could always skip the pricing and list everything at 1s if ya really wanted to.  Though I'm sure then ya wouldn't have a problem finding a larger market with that. If yer thinking of non broker commission where a buyer is providing their own rare for you to craft directly then that's a different topic altogether.  I'm sure players have different ways to price their stuff for different situations like crafting for guildies, commission for tips, the crafter having to provide the rare, etc.  I'm sure crafters that work for just tips are keeping themselves busy. -Gil

[Jrral]

<cite>Gilamarth wrote:</cite><blockquote>If yer thinking of non broker commission where a buyer is providing their own rare for you to craft directly then that's a different topic altogether. </blockquote>That's my norm, yes. I don't do tips or anything, straight fee for work done and the buyer supplies the rare (whether they buy it on the broker, harvest it or trade with a friend for it is up to them). I simply don't see the attraction of trying to second-guess prices on the broker and possibly getting burned badly if you guess wrong when there's more than enough steady business in just turning customers' rares into finished items. The number of people crying here about how badly they got burned by a drop in prices should be sufficient explanation of why I don't see any attraction there. If I want to play with fire, I'll go kill things in Lavastorm. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[danne78]

Kukubird i must say that i agree with EVERYTHING you have said so far, soe is killing the crafting. If this continues i am afraid i will leave the game for cod4 when it comes out, been playing eq2 since the start.

[metacell]

<cite>Frellnick wrote:</cite><blockquote>The real measure of rare supply is the broker, because it measures the collective rare supply (i.e. a bigger sample of behaviour). And the broker has shown a huge and dramatic price drop that began with the introduction of the update. [..] </blockquote>I agree, but also bear in mind that everybody and their alts went out to harvest once they realised the increased harvest rate, because they figured it was a temporary fluke. The lowered prices stem partly from the increased harvest rate, and partly from the fact that people spend a lot more time harvesting. Once people go back to their normal harvesting pattern, the prices will go back up a little. But they may also fluctuate up and down for a long time as people who've stockpiled rares decide to sell off their goods. Regarding RoK and trivialising content: Experienced players who create new alts, can equip them with Mastercrafted very cheaply and blow through T1 - T2 quicker. But for those players, the T7 - T8 parts of RoK are by far the most important. I'm not sure new players will blow throw the first tiers using Mastercrafted either. First off, learning what gear you need, and how to get it from a crafter, is a challenge in itself for new players. Many will have levelled up before they figure it out, unless they have a "mentor" in the game or join a guild very early. And I think Mastercrafted will be too expensive for new players even with the new prices. I haven't played a character from scratch for a long time, though, so I'm not sure how easy it is getting money on the lower tiers these days. Btw, I'm surprised this change didn't come earlier. Having rare loams and hard metals drop half as often as other rares just because they are harvested from the same node, is just silly. There's no reason for it, it's just sloppy design/programming. The change to metal nodes makes sense, but maybe the harvesting tables should have been tweaked <i>down</i> instead of up to compensate for the increase on metal/stone/loam harvests. There's a related imbalance that needs to be fixed too, namely that 12 classes need loams for their spells, but only 6 classes need stones and soft metals, respectively. It's no coincidence that loams are the most expensive rares on the broker. Rare loams should drop twice as often as rare stones and soft metals. I think, however, that should wait until the market has cooled down... and even then, I think the rate should be tweaked up gradually.

[zaneluke]

Why not marry success rates for rares to reflect crafter level?

[MrWolfie]

<a href="mailto:Aquarius@Runnyeye" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Aquarius@Runnyeye</a> wrote: <blockquote>There's a related imbalance that needs to be fixed too, namely that 12 classes need loams for their spells, but only 6 classes need stones and soft metals, respectively. It's no coincidence that loams are the most expensive rares on the broker. Rare loams should drop twice as often as rare stones and soft metals. I think, however, that should wait until the market has cooled down... and even then, I think the rate should be tweaked up gradually. </blockquote><p> Rare metals are used for armor, weapons and (along with rare stones) jewellery and carpentry too, loam is not. In fact, as far as I remember*, rare loams aren't used for anything but spell upgrades, whereas all the other rares are. I don't see mention of that in your examination.</p><p>And on my server, the price of loams are roughly on a par with soft metal clusters (throughout all tiers) ~ the only exception to this is T6 and that's driven by the Master 1 supply & demand market for T6.</p><p>*i may be mistaken, but I'm close enough.</p><p>PS. I like the changes, I like that my harvesting skill has a noticable effect on what I dig out of the ground, depending *where* I am harvesting. I don't expect "rares a plenty" in T7, but in T1-T5 I think a reasonable return on my time spent harvesting is appropriate.</p>

[Sunlei]

<p>  Well they up the lvl 1-9 and 10-19 rare rates, so even a newbie can harvest a lot and everyone can craft the low lvl stuff for themself.</p><p>Can tell a lot of new people are doing this as the broker is flooded with T1 junk that didn't make pristine so the newbie crafters are trying to sell crude lvls.</p><p>Fun for the new players, they can make their own if they wish.</p><p>Problem is the lvl 70s harvesting in T1 and T2 zones..and T3 zones. Level 70s with the best plus to harvesting..what is it plus 50 from the unrest harvest gear? Those lvl 70s are the ones harvesting stacks of rares in an hour.  Pretty funny to be the only lvl 12 in Ant. and theres 5 lvl 70s on carpets harvesting all around you, just the rocks <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>They want to make harvesting and crafting nice for new players?, that's great.</p><p>Got to figure out a way to keep the maxed lvl 70s from dominating the newbie content. Cause ya know they do dominate newbie content, if they can they will. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[kukubird]

I just don't think rare drops should ahve increased at all... or at least not as much as it is now. My opinion aside...... I do, however, agree that the metal nodes should have been dropping their rares with the same chance as the other nodes..... that alone would have been an increase in overall rare drop rate of what 30% or so?  That would have been a good move imo.

[Rijacki]

Aquarius@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote>Frellnick wrote: I'm not sure new players will blow throw the first tiers using Mastercrafted either. First off, learning what gear you need, and how to get it from a crafter, is a challenge in itself for new players. Many will have levelled up before they figure it out, unless they have a "mentor" in the game or join a guild very early. And I think Mastercrafted will be too expensive for new players even with the new prices. I haven't played a character from scratch for a long time, though, so I'm not sure how easy it is getting money on the lower tiers these days. </blockquote>Mastercrafted isn't -needed- in the first 20 levels.  Heck, crafted isn't even -needed- then either.  They're nice to have and they make things easier (which is why many 70s twink alts), but they aren't -needed-.  You can easily get through to level 20 without anything from the broker.. and then start looking for stuff.

[Phoxtrot]

It's true that you don't realy need mastercrafted or even handcrafted equipment for lev1-20 but it does help when soloing quests or killing nameds. (solo or heroic). It is not all that costly if the new player also makes use of the broker to sell his items. Every treasured item is worth at least 1g. (thanks to transmuters).

[Snapdragyn]

<p>Another data blip - lvl 70, tinkered tools (not the top ones as the toon is only 50s in crafting level). 25-30 minutes harvesting in TS this morning before work, cherry-picking rocks since I was on such a short time. 13 rares in that time, 6 of those were loam. Twice in that time I got 2 rares from 1 node (loams both times).</p><p>Disclaimer: I draw no conclusions from scattered data points, nor do I suggest that others should do so.</p>

[Valdaglerion]

Jrral@Unrest wrote: <blockquote>I honestly get the feeling that the only people worried about the current drop rate are the market speculators. And I can't come up with a truly good reason why the game should be balanced around market speculation and people asking 50g for a T3 Adept3 that costs less than 6s in fuel to make if you (or your customer) harvested the rare. </blockquote><p>What about the time/money/skill invested in obtaining the ability to make those crafts?</p><p>What about the time you invested to harvest the materials?</p><p>I bet you are the type of person that complains about a $50 office visit at the doctor that only spends 5 minutes with you neglecting the fact they spent 12 years in school and reduced their average life expectancy from 72 years to 55 years due to job stress.</p><p>Reasons enough for you?</p>

[Calthine]

People really need to be harvesting close to their own skill Tier for data to be valid.  A level 70 harvesting in TS is supposed to get more rares.

[aardda]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>People really need to be harvesting close to their own skill Tier for data to be valid.  A level 70 harvesting in TS is supposed to get more rares. </blockquote><p> The rate isn't particularly bad when harvesting within an appropriate tier, maybe a little on the high side - but i hope it doesn't get nerfed too bad.</p><p>I'm currently out harvesting now in the feerot with my level 48 sage, not particularly looking for rares but more just for any crafting material to continue levelling 8 of my 9 crafters (my provisioner is the only one to reach 50 so far).</p><p>To give some idea of what i am personally seeing, these are the numbers of what i've got so far tonight.</p><p>249 common units of resources so far, of which</p><p>42 hard metal / 51 loam 26 meat / 21 pelts</p><p>i have found 1 rare so far, an augmented pelt, and 1 luminous material.</p><p>I will update the stats as i go throughout tonight.</p><p>Edit: update so far</p><p>got pulled away so not harvesting too quickly</p><p>561 common units 61 fulginate / 83 loam 87 meat / 56 pelts 5 rare harvests found</p><p>rate i'm currently getting rares is a little over 1 per 110 common harvests, as i said its perhaps a little high. 1 per 200 harvests would be somewhere where they aren't too rare, and aren't too common, and given the ease of getting [Removed for Content] good treasured items in eof, i wouldn't think such a rate would be far wrong.</p>

[Juddge]

<cite>Valdaglerion wrote:</cite><blockquote>Jrral@Unrest wrote: <blockquote>I honestly get the feeling that the only people worried about the current drop rate are the market speculators. And I can't come up with a truly good reason why the game should be balanced around market speculation and people asking 50g for a T3 Adept3 that costs less than 6s in fuel to make if you (or your customer) harvested the rare. </blockquote><p>What about the time/money/skill invested in obtaining the ability to make those crafts?</p><p>What about the time you invested to harvest the materials?</p><p>I bet you are the type of person that complains about a $50 office visit at the doctor that only spends 5 minutes with you neglecting the fact they spent 12 years in school and reduced their average life expectancy from 72 years to 55 years due to job stress.</p><p>Reasons enough for you?</p></blockquote><p>The guy is talking about t3 .. thats takes a dedicated crafter  no more than a few days to accomplish if that. its not easy but its an investment. If i want a t3 item crafted it shouldnt be 50g maybe 5 if i provide rare. I want a t7 item made well now we are talking a lot of time and work at this point. Id pay 35g a combine figure in that i want more than 1 at any given time so yuoull make a few plat at that rate per customer. Where is the loss in money making? I dont get it? You're still making those video game gold coins you otherwise would not be making if you did not tradeskill. If you spend a lot of money getting your skill up thats your own issue because you could just gather everything yourself. Passing on your expense to a customer isn't going to work. If you like to tradeskill and harvest its playing the game doing what you like and giving yourself the ability to make some $$, but a few people feel like it should be a huge income to themselves and that they are special. New flash a lot of people craft and a lot will undercut someone elses prices because any money earned is profit. So by saying ill put my item at 50g because thats what its worth. Well you wont make a copper that way. </p><p><i>Saying I play this video game for my enjoyment and caft while doing so entitles me to expect to be able to charge others large amounts for my time and effort while playing a game and doing what I enjoy. I should pay you 50g for a t3 item for doing something you have fun doing? </i></p><p>if your lvl 70 toon or whatever lvl has no tradeskill. You need something you have to pay. You see someone who is looking for a crafters you lose out becasue you can't do it. Tradeskill is something you can add to your char to help yourself and make some coin along the way. No matter what the sell price on a rare is you dont lose anything. No where you can go but up, unless you buy items from the broker at high price are now bitter over it. </p>

[Raveller]

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote> <ul><li>The "base" table might tell you that you have a 70% chance of getting 1 root, a 20% chance of getting 3 roots, an 8% chance of getting 5 roots, a 1% chance of getting an imbue, a 0.7% chance of getting a rare root, and a 0.3% chance of getting a rare root + 10 common ones. </li></ul><ul><li>The "bonus" table might tell you that you have a 60% chance of getting 1 root, a 25% chance of getting 3 roots, an 10% chance of getting 5 roots, a 0.5% chance of getting an imbue, a 0.8% chance of getting a rare root, and a 0.7% chance of getting a rare root + 10 common ones.</li></ul><span style="font-size: xx-small">(Yes, the numbers probably don't add up to 100%, I just invented them on the spot.)</span> </blockquote>I realize that you invented these numbers on the spot, but does the harvest rate for imbue materials actually drop as your harvesting skill goes up? I don't know about everyone else, but for me imbuing materials have become very rare finds since GU37.

[Raveller]

<cite>Valdaglerion wrote:</cite><blockquote>Jrral@Unrest wrote: <blockquote>I honestly get the feeling that the only people worried about the current drop rate are the market speculators. And I can't come up with a truly good reason why the game should be balanced around market speculation and people asking 50g for a T3 Adept3 that costs less than 6s in fuel to make if you (or your customer) harvested the rare. </blockquote><p>What about the time/money/skill invested in obtaining the ability to make those crafts?</p><p>What about the time you invested to harvest the materials?</p><p>I bet you are the type of person that complains about a $50 office visit at the doctor that only spends 5 minutes with you neglecting the fact they spent 12 years in school and reduced their average life expectancy from 72 years to 55 years due to job stress.</p><p>Reasons enough for you?</p></blockquote>Time/money/skill to get to T3? Are you on drugs? It doesn't take any time or coin (and there is ZERO skill involved in EQ2 crafting) to get to T3. The lower tier mastercrafted gear is brokered to price-gouge twinkers. The lower tier rares are priced, just as Jrral suggested, by speculators, who are as much a parasite in this game as the plat sellers.

[Domino]

<cite>Raveller wrote:</cite><blockquote>DominoDev wrote: I realize that you invented these numbers on the spot, but does the harvest rate for imbue materials actually drop as your harvesting skill goes up? I don't know about everyone else, but for me imbuing materials have become very rare finds since GU37. </blockquote> The imbue materials did get more rare since GU37.  They seemed to be far more common than they needed to be, so I lowered the rate.  They're actually a bit less common than low level rares now, though still more common than high level ones.  At the moment I think there's a huge stockpile of them out there, so this'll help people use up all those teeth and flowers and scales that aren't dropping any more.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Over the next few months if it looks as if there's too few, that can be increased again, we'll see how it goes.

[Deson]

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Raveller wrote:</cite><blockquote>DominoDev wrote: I realize that you invented these numbers on the spot, but does the harvest rate for imbue materials actually drop as your harvesting skill goes up? I don't know about everyone else, but for me imbuing materials have become very rare finds since GU37. </blockquote> The imbue materials did get more rare since GU37.  They seemed to be far more common than they needed to be, so I lowered the rate.  They're actually a bit less common than low level rares now, though still more common than high level ones.  At the moment I think there's a huge stockpile of them out there, so this'll help people use up all those teeth and flowers and scales that aren't dropping any more.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Over the next few months if it looks as if there's too few, that can be increased again, we'll see how it goes. </blockquote>Oh evil Tradeskill Empress,  if you were  to make such a change, would you revisit the idea of making them like the t7 quest harvests?

[Lathaine]

<p>Doo that's why material are so rare <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> was brutal change thanks for say why <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> kill stock.</p><p>befor all, yes english if not my first language and i m not angry or deseperete, i was just little disapointed.</p><p>dartie wrote: </p><blockquote><cite>Lathaine wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>1) just for clarify theory people have, here it's real number, drop rate are not 0,22% better not even 50% better, it's almost 1000% better.</p><p>2) When befor you could harvest 3H without have rare, or able to get 10 rare in same period time depend on bad or good run, atm you get 20 to 40 rare in the same time and even in bad run you ll have more than 15 rare where befor you could have NO ONE.</p><p>3) Easy to understand how it was important to fix it the first day... in less than 2 day the price of rare dropped half, mean a really BIG increase. One week and price will still drop even long time after it will be fix. It's too late. really too late.</p><p>4) Real mastercraft player cant enjoy this, only player who no want lose time in EQ can enjoy this, you want everything quick, rare was not supposed to be that way.</p><p>5) And sorry domino for me with this you lose all credit for all great thing you have done befor, why give some love to crafter and then kill it ? A real attention was need, but i see it's also community here who keep crying, and jumping they dont see more far than their nose.</p><p>6) PS : for people who say price no want say anything, that go up and down, it's nothing real. Price is EVERYTHING, humanity is rule by money, economie is everything. It's the only way to say if thing have value or not. and the value of craft was never so low, and will drop a lot in several day again, perhaps week or month. And dont think price of mastercraft will not follow price of rare.</p></blockquote><p>Lathaine, I'm not as handy with manipulating quoted materials as some folks, so I've numbered your paragraphs and will try to respond to them each because I do share some of your concerns.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">1) just for clarify theory people have, here it's real number, drop rate are not 0,22% better not even 50% better, it's almost 1000% better.</span></p><p>Like you, I agree that the percentages we are being given by Domino are not consistent with my experience while harvesting or my observations of price changes on the broker.  I don't know that I would go as high as your 1000%, but my guess is that rare drops have increased to 2.5 to 3 times what they were.  I also share your concern that the devs seem not at all fased by what this means to the game.  (I won't share your focus on the economy, but I think the devs haven't considered how many mobs they will have to scale up and how many encounters they will have to change in response to a massive increase in the number of twinks.)</p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">2) When befor you could harvest 3H without have rare, or able to get 10 rare in same period time depend on bad or good run, atm you get 20 to 40 rare in the same time and even in bad run you ll have more than 15 rare where befor you could have NO ONE.</span></p><p>Maybe the increase is as dramatic as you suggest, but I did spend 20 minutes harvesting T4 without getting a rare, so I think this claim of yours is hyperbolic.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">3) Easy to understand how it was important to fix it the first day... in less than 2 day the price of rare dropped half, mean a really BIG increase. One week and price will still drop even long time after it will be fix. It's too late. really too late.</span></p><p>Here's where I agree with you most strongly.  It really does appear to be too late.  People have already stockpiled rares by the stacks of 50.  I stopped at 200 coral, 200 silver, 250 alkaline loam, 200 jasper, 150 palladium, 100 malleable loam, 100 opal, 100 ruthenium, 100 ductile loam, 100 ruby, 100 rhodium, 100 pearl, 100 vanadium, 75 moonstone, and 50 acrylia.  (Domino is welcome to check my account to verify that horde.)</p><p>The crazy thing is I am not a big-time player in the rare market.  I suspect based on watching the broker that there are scads of more serious players who make my own horde look trivial.  </p><p>These rares are already banked by dozens of players on every server.</p><p>Now, for the sake of getting somewhere, PLEASE DON'T THINK ABOUT THE PRICE OF THE RARES, AS THAT HAS ONLY AN INCIDENTAL RELATIONSHIP TO THE WAY MOST PLAYERS PLAY THE GAME.  Instead, think about the forthcoming release of Kunark and the fact that the new T1 and T2 content is going to be a huge turnoff to most players because it will present ZERO CHALLENGE to them with their AD3 spells and their complete sets of m/c gear.</p><p>Like you, I'm astonished that the devs appear completely unconcerned about this flood of rare materials.  But even more like you, I really think it's too late to do anything about it at this point.  The rares are already in banks by the thousands.  </p><p>Since it is too late in my opinion, I don't see the point in complaining about it.  I guess we'll just have to wait and see how the devs react when they finally realize that they have to react.  Reducing the rare drop rate won't help--at least not for a long while.  Horders could keep the market supplied probably longer than any dev is willing to concede.</p><p>The choices the combat devs will have to make will involve making the mobs stronger (and having to recode mobs for all the T1-T5 areas of the game), setting up a more complicated social aggro system, or nerfing m/c gear.  I've already indicated which solution I suspect they'll opt for (nerfage), but it could be that they have a grand plan in place.  We'll see how they respond when they respond.  But right now, it looks like they just don't see how important it is for them to respond in some way.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">4) Real mastercraft player cant enjoy this, only player who no want lose time in EQ can enjoy this, you want everything quick, rare was not supposed to be that way.</span></p><p>Here's a rebuttal that I can imagine to your take on this point (which I happen to share):  Maybe their market research indicates that most players really want to blow through the lower tiers in top gear with no challenge at all.  Maybe they intend to leave drop rates at this level and to allow m/c gear to stay just as good as it is so that folks can get to 80 lickety-split.  But my suspicion is that they don't really "intend" anything--that this rare flood is a glitch that just isn't receiving attention because Domino has tradeskill writs to think about and Smedley has his card game to think about and no one is really thinking about the longterm consequences of universal twinkage.</p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">5) And sorry domino for me with this you lose all credit for all great thing you have done befor, why give some love to crafter and then kill it ? A real attention was need, but i see it's also community here who keep crying, and jumping they dont see more far than their nose.</span></p><p>I don't see any reason to cast aspersions on Domino, who is trying to respond to the crafting community according to her best sense of how to do her job.  I think it's sort of crazy that whoever approved the change to rare drop rates appears not to have thought through the consequences of doing so on the game.  I also think that whatever was approved made a sort of mathematical sense to the approving authority that has NOTHING to do with the real in-game consequences of the change.</p><p>I'm beginning to think that SOE doesn't consider MMORPG economies very thoughtfully.  I always assumed there were statistical models and sound theories behind decisions to drain __ money from or pump ___ money into the economy.  I assumed there was someone at SOE who watched certain economic indicators for signs of duping or other exploits.  I'm pretty well convinced at this point that there is no such person--no system for monitoring the economy.  The decision to increase the rare drop rate, multiply the number of potential sellers by 7, and increase the amount of time each seller remains active by 7 days is a fair indication that there is no careful monitoring of the EQ2 economy (a pity in my opinion--since there are presumably scads of grad students in business/economics who would be happy to do it as some kind of work-study).  The powers that be clearly think nothing of introducing multiple huge variables into the economic equation all at once--so that there is really no pinpointing which causes prompt which effects.  If SOE bothered to appoint an Alan Greenspan type figure to each MMORPG economy, I suspect their crackdowns on RMT would meet with far greater success, but how could such a person perform his job when a single update can introduce so many new factors into an economy?</p><p><span style="color: #ff3300">6) PS : for people who say price no want say anything, that go up and down, it's nothing real. Price is EVERYTHING, humanity is rule by money, economie is everything. It's the only way to say if thing have value or not. and the value of craft was never so low, and will drop a lot in several day again, perhaps week or month. And dont think price of mastercraft will not follow price of rare.</span></p><p>Although I am able to follow all of your points, it sounds to me as if English is not your first language--which may be why your tone comes across as shrill and desperate.  Whether you horded rares for profit or not, the way you've phrased this argument makes you sound like a failed speculator.  You aren't going to get any sympathy that way--not even from me, since I'm one of the failed speculators who bought rares while they were on the way down.  (They still appear to be a ways from bottoming out, so I've lost money on my "horde" as well as on the m/c gear that I crafted and put on the broker before the rate change.  I estimate that I have lost more than 200 plat as a consequence of this change, but there's a lot to be said for an "easy come, easy go" attitude.  Seriously, dude, it's a game.  We took our chances and lost.  Try something else.  There's no reason to get upset.)</p><p>As long as you keep barking about the economy, the adventurers are just going to ignore you.  You have to focus on things that matter to players.  Then again, the devs' lack of attention to this crazy spike in rares has me wondering whether you are the only one who is failing to think about what people look for in a game--a sense of challenge, a sense of accomplishment, and fun. </p></blockquote><p> 1) drop rate of 1000% seem a lot at first look, but if you look what happened and how rare drop it was probably more than 10x. while 2.5 or 3x seem more realist, it's not. With only 3x the drop rare it would take more than 2 day for totaly overfaw the market and cut price by 2.</p><p>2) you dont get rare in 20 min, that can happend i also dont get rare for 30 min then in next 5 min i got 5 rare. bad run still here <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but i remember well befor got no rare in 3H several times, so 20 min dont seem a lot <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>3) yes too late for blabla, it's done it's done. i dont like harvesting, really i dont like do that. I always brough rare i need, i harvest only when market is creazy and price really too high, or even i dont craft and wait, i can wait 2 month for just craft one thing... And with this i feeling 2 way, first i wanted see if it was true, second i wanted not stay back while all other stockpile. I wanted my part. And i havnt havrested more than 6H by day.</p><p>5)<b> I m sorry domino</b> if <u>i was upset</u>, was not fun to see this happen and feel like no one care. We love the game dont break it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And i was thinking for each aspect of the game a full team of dev take care of it, it seem not. And yes i dont blame domino for this. Now i start to think just one dev work and 50 marketman get profit without care about dev team.</p><p>6) i just brough rare because i no want lose all my time to harvest, i dont have stock of rare i have brough so that dont touche me much, except since i have brough lot of rare at low price.. but i still dont feel that fun at all. Befor i could rush a stack of xegonite at 35 gold each, just for have few since i done lot of carpenter furniture, as exemple, but i dont do this a lot... i can stay several week without care about i dont have anything to sell... I m just a mastercraft player who try make few profit with his skill.</p><p>'It's just a game' i could kill someone for say this.... it's not because it's a game that's not serious. usually i ear this from people who dont care about what they do... game have rule, dont follow rule and game stop to exist.</p><p>And no i m not totaly upset, i just feel that totaly not normal, and should not be possible if it was done by professional. I talk about the delay, mistake can happen <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>PS : again :p price of market can go up and done i dont care, if it's not due to something like and exploit <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> this was lot more than just price change.</p><p>Other part, price of rare are not, NOT AT ALL for main low lvl char, only high lvl should buy best gear, low lvl main are supposed to harvest and get their own rare by themself, what is merite if you brough everything first time you play ??? yes a set worth 7 plat at lvl 20 30, and what ? you are not supposed to brough everything, and you want all your master 1 spell with this ? it as value, it's lot overpriced yes, and what ? player have crafted a lot for up his skill and spend a lot of cash in 70x2 recipe book.  Anyway everyone can have any set of rare just go harvest instead of just want buy it, buy nice stuff is only for old player :p... less now but still :p</p><p>I was thinking like everyone up the rate was good thing but 0,22% would be more in line with what was need :p</p>

[Jrral]

<cite>Valdaglerion wrote:</cite><blockquote>What about the time/money/skill invested in obtaining the ability to make those crafts?<p>What about the time you invested to harvest the materials?</p></blockquote>Let's see. There's time spent levelling up as a crafter. There's also time and money spent acquiring advanced tradeskill books. Now, there's the small matter that I didn't do those things to make money selling items, I started crafting to be able to make items for myself, my friends and guildmates. But yes, I expect a return on that investment. That's why I charge more than merely fuel cost. But I also don't expect to recover the full amount of that investment on every single sale. I expect to recover it over time. As for harvesting, well, two things. First, I need to harvest anyway. I need commons for my own levelling, and for making things I have to make anyway. I also need to prospect for rares, and I'll be accumulating a lot of commons in the process. Second, we're not talking much time here. With no tools and no mount it takes only a couple of minutes to gather enough for a combine in any tier where I don't have to worry about aggro in the harvesting area. Charging 10g or more <i>per minute</i> for my time simply isn't reasonable.

[Domino]

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>Oh evil Tradeskill Empress,  if you were  to make such a change, would you revisit the idea of making them like the t7 quest harvests? </blockquote>That was the first option I looked into, but unfortunately, I was told those quest harvests are handled differently in a way that I couldn't easily apply to the imbue harvests.  I might revisit that long term after RoK is out of the way, but short term it wasn't something I could do quickly so it got put in the "maybe later" pile.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Hm, evil tradeskill empress, it has a ring ... <img src="/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Deson]

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>Oh evil Tradeskill Empress,  if you were  to make such a change, would you revisit the idea of making them like the t7 quest harvests? </blockquote>That was the first option I looked into, but unfortunately, I was told those quest harvests are handled differently in a way that I couldn't easily apply to the imbue harvests.  I might revisit that long term after RoK is out of the way, but short term it wasn't something I could do quickly so it got put in the "maybe later" pile.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Hm, evil tradeskill empress, it has a ring ... <img src="/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>Thanks for the info. And yeah, as soon as I read your evil empire comment, that's the first thing I thought.

[melaine_dvarvensplitter]

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>Oh evil Tradeskill Empress,  if you were  to make such a change, would you revisit the idea of making them like the t7 quest harvests? </blockquote>That was the first option I looked into, but unfortunately, I was told those quest harvests are handled differently in a way that I couldn't easily apply to the imbue harvests.  I might revisit that long term after RoK is out of the way, but short term it wasn't something I could do quickly so it got put in the "maybe later" pile.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Hm, evil tradeskill empress, it has a ring ... <img src="/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>Hmmm ... will ya be dressed in black? <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Lathaine]

<p>could i ask why tweak in drop rate could not be done on test server befor hit live serveur ? or it's done and no one have see this happen ?</p><p>sorry if in other post i look angry, it's not.</p>

[FoxRiverRanger]

<cite>Raveller wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Valdaglerion wrote:</cite><blockquote>Jrral@Unrest wrote: <blockquote>I honestly get the feeling that the only people worried about the current drop rate are the market speculators. And I can't come up with a truly good reason why the game should be balanced around market speculation and people asking 50g for a T3 Adept3 that costs less than 6s in fuel to make if you (or your customer) harvested the rare. </blockquote><p>What about the time/money/skill invested in obtaining the ability to make those crafts?</p><p>What about the time you invested to harvest the materials?</p><p>I bet you are the type of person that complains about a $50 office visit at the doctor that only spends 5 minutes with you neglecting the fact they spent 12 years in school and reduced their average life expectancy from 72 years to 55 years due to job stress.</p><p>Reasons enough for you?</p></blockquote>Time/money/skill to get to T3? Are you on drugs? It doesn't take any time or coin (and there is ZERO skill involved in EQ2 crafting) to get to T3. The lower tier mastercrafted gear is brokered to price-gouge twinkers. The lower tier rares are priced, just as Jrral suggested, by speculators, who are as much a parasite in this game as the plat sellers. </blockquote><p>Price gouging? How can anyone in this game manage to "price above the market rate when no other supply is available?"  Every character in the game buys and sells on the same free market.  Every character in the game has always been able to harvest for themselves; if they commit the time.  Every player is free to value their time however they choose.  If an item is overpriced it will not sell.</p><p>The parasites are not those willing to commit to attaining something, whether for their own use or to broker it to afford something else.  The real parasites are those that feel entitled to what others have earned without having to make the same commitment.  The parasites that demand others provide for them whatever they want, when the want it, at the price they want: or whine the game is broken.</p><p>The point those who relish the thought of free flowing rare harvests seem to be avoiding is the developers do not tune drop rates to influence player determined market prices.  They tune drop rates to the ‘risk versus reward' principle that determines itemization.  Developers set the scarcity and the itemization; players then set the free market value.  </p><p>The last significant increase in rare drops rates was concurrent with the tradeskill revamp and reitemization of all crafted items.  If the scarcity of rare harvests were changed significantly enough that everyone is running fully Mastercrafted/Adept III, the follow up will need to be a reitemization of Mastercrafted items or a retuning of the combat system.  To quote a favorite movie of my children: "Once everybody is super, then nobody will be."</p><p>Comparing those willing to meet the commitment needed to attain superior gear to plat sellers is ludicrous.  More likely that from among those malcontented parasites unfulfilled in their sense of entitlement whining about "twinks" and "plat sellers" one will find the plat buyer.</p>

[Eriol]

<cite>melaine_dvarvensplitter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hm, evil tradeskill empress, it has a ring ... <img src="/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>Hmmm ... will ya be dressed in black? </blockquote> Watch for that at the next Fan Faire.

[Deson]

<cite>Eriol wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>melaine_dvarvensplitter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hm, evil tradeskill empress, it has a ring ... <img src="/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>Hmmm ... will ya be dressed in black? </blockquote> Watch for that at the next Fan Faire. </blockquote>She <i>did</i> like the storm troopers.

[denmom]

<cite>Raveller wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Valdaglerion wrote:</cite><blockquote>Jrral@Unrest wrote: <blockquote>I honestly get the feeling that the only people worried about the current drop rate are the market speculators. And I can't come up with a truly good reason why the game should be balanced around market speculation and people asking 50g for a T3 Adept3 that costs less than 6s in fuel to make if you (or your customer) harvested the rare. </blockquote><p>What about the time/money/skill invested in obtaining the ability to make those crafts?</p><p>What about the time you invested to harvest the materials?</p><p>I bet you are the type of person that complains about a $50 office visit at the doctor that only spends 5 minutes with you neglecting the fact they spent 12 years in school and reduced their average life expectancy from 72 years to 55 years due to job stress.</p><p>Reasons enough for you?</p></blockquote>Time/money/skill to get to T3? Are you on drugs? It doesn't take any time or coin (and there is ZERO skill involved in EQ2 crafting) to get to T3. The lower tier mastercrafted gear is brokered to price-gouge twinkers. The lower tier rares are priced, just as Jrral suggested, by speculators, who are as much a parasite in this game as the plat sellers. </blockquote>Amen on the speculators. I was looking at the broker last night for a blackened iron scimitar (didn't feel like hopping to my WS in the middle of betryal from Neriak to Qeynos) and my jaw dropped when I saw the price of a BI scimitar. <b>42g.</b> Blah. Okay yah, it's aimed at the twinking market, the ones who have the coin to be able to pay such a price...but good lords.  I'd put up cheaper goods, undercutting by a long margin, but I know it'd just be bought up by the speculators and put into their inventory. Aaaannnd gonna  stop here before I go off into a huge rant about it all.  *wry smile*

[Lathaine]

<p>yes this whole topic is lot less interesting than an evil domino tradeskill empress dressed in black at a fan faire like a storm trooper, but... you shouldnt say that here :p</p>

[Calthine]

<cite>Lathaine wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>yes this whole topic is lot less interesting than an evil domino tradeskill empress dressed in black at a fan faire like a storm trooper, but... you shouldnt say that here :p</p></blockquote> That gave me a laugh! The original change was on Test (Domino told me at Fan Faire she tested it internally and on Test); the way I'm reading it this tweak will patch in as a hotfix "soon".

[ZeroRavesOn]

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote>Oh evil Tradeskill Empress,  if you were  to make such a change, would you revisit the idea of making them like the t7 quest harvests? </blockquote>That was the first option I looked into, but unfortunately, I was told those quest harvests are handled differently in a way that I couldn't easily apply to the imbue harvests.  I might revisit that long term after RoK is out of the way, but short term it wasn't something I could do quickly so it got put in the "maybe later" pile.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Hm, evil tradeskill empress, it has a ring ... <img src="/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>It does have a ring ... do I get to be a minion, now?

[baddog]

numnutz fables they say that in the land of the blind the one eye'd man is king, but the blind have no need of candles , and prophets are the raws for sacred cow dung a dishearting lesson of human nature is the mulititude, even when confronted with truth, will continue to defend their assumptions and fallacys,  or worse spread lies, slander, and deceit you can't win an arguement with a fool because they can't follow the math

[Jrral]

One thing I've been noticing: the rare drop rate tails off dramatically as you hit your current tier. I'm thinking the high rates reported are only for people harvesting well below their level, ie. the standard drop tables are OK but there's too much of a boost being given for being over cap for the tier you're harvesting in.

[Lathaine]

No, sorry was all teir even T7 was overflow <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[metacell]

<cite>MrWolfie wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> Rare metals are used for armor, weapons and (along with rare stones) jewellery and carpentry too, loam is not. In fact, as far as I remember*, rare loams aren't used for anything but spell upgrades, whereas all the other rares are. I don't see mention of that in your examination.</p></blockquote>True, but spell upgrades are far more important than the other uses. Most people skip on the mastercrafted jewellery, and go for quested/looted jewellery instead (unless you are on a PvP server, where you need the resists). But everyone needs to upgrade at least a few of their spells/combat arts to Adept III. The uses for different rares are (please remind me if I forgot something): <ul><li>Pelts - leather armour, some house items</li><li>Roots - cloth armour, some house items</li><li>Wood - bows, staves, shields, altars, sales crates and other house items </li><li>Soft metals - Mage spells, jewellery, some house items</li><li>Stones - Priest spells, some house items </li><li>Hard metals - Metal armour, metal weapons, some house items</li><li>Loams - fighter spells, scout spells</li></ul>The prices on rare wood, hard metals, soft metals and stones are driven up by the need to make mastercrafted sales crates/bows/staves, metal armour, mage spell upgrades, and priest spell upgrades, respectively. That makes the prices too high for most people to use them for jewellery and house items. (It's also obvious why pelts and roots are relatively cheap - leather armour is only used by four classes, and cloth armour by six, as opposed to the fourteen (!) classes that use metal armour.) In my opinion, it's a mistake to let the same kinds of rares be used for different purposes. It makes it much harder to balance the game. For instance, carpenters rarely get to use their rare recipies, since the raws are so expensive, and most people won't pay that much just for a house item. But the devs can't increase the harvest rates of rare stones and metals, since that would make Adept III spells too cheap. The devs have spent a lot of time developing the rare carpenter recipies, but that time is in large parts wasted, since most carpenters can't afford to use them anyway. In my opinion, we need different rares for different purposes, and the devs need to tweak the harvest rates of them individually, so the different tradeskill classes can work as intended.

[Lathaine]

<p>Pelt are also use for craft some belt/necklace, and tomes for secondary/range <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, and bags/quivers.. etc</p><p>Root are use for charm doll, cloak ...</p><p>Hard metal for shield, and some symbol secondary/range</p><p>and i m sure i forgot some</p>

[Jrral]

Aquarius@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote> <ul><li>Pelts - leather armour, some house items</li><li>Roots - cloth armour, some house items</li><li>Wood - bows, staves, shields, altars, sales crates and other house items </li><li>Soft metals - Mage spells, jewellery, some house items</li><li>Stones - Priest spells, some house items </li><li>Hard metals - Metal armour, metal weapons, some house items</li><li>Loams - fighter spells, scout spells</li></ul> </blockquote>Gems are used for caster/healer jewelry. Roots are also used for cloaks and hex dolls. I think, though, that the big reason that soft and hard metals, gems and loams are priced so much higher than pelts, roots and wood is supply. Pelt, root and wood come from nodes that only drop those rares. Hard metals and loams share a node, as do gems and soft metals, and since the drop rate for ore and stone nodes is the same as for any other node there's only half as many of each type of rare dropping off them. The upcoming hotfix is supposed to address this by doubling the rare drop rate from ore and stone nodes, so there'll be as many of each type of rare dropping off them as drop off the single-type nodes. That should ease pricing somewhat.

[Spyrit]

<p>Oh evil Tradeskill Empress (sorry, I could not resist).</p><p>Could you let us know when the tweaking of drop rates is complete (if it is not mentioned in update notes). I don't think I would be the only one that is sitting out waiting for the dust to settle. I know it will take a while for the market to find a level again with everyone harvesting like crazy and all the people hoarding and speculating.</p><p>I enjoy my tradeskilling and I like to have finished goods on the broker but I do not price gouge so large swings like this just force me out of the market. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> When you make 10G - 15G per item and the market drops by 50G it is just a waste of time. I don't really care about the plat loss (it's just a game) but I do like logging in each night and seeing what did and didn't sell.</p>

[greenmantle]

Spyrit@Najena wrote: <blockquote><p>Could you let us know when the tweaking of drop rates is complete (if it is not mentioned in update notes). I don't think I would be the only one that is sitting out waiting for the dust to settle. I know it will take a while for the market to find a level again with everyone harvesting like crazy and all the people hoarding and speculating.</p><p>I enjoy my tradeskilling and I like to have finished goods on the broker but I do not price gouge so large swings like this just force me out of the market. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> When you make 10G - 15G per item and the market drops by 50G it is just a waste of time. I don't really care about the plat loss (it's just a game) but I do like logging in each night and seeing what did and didn't sell.</p></blockquote><p> I have to agree i  with prices going all over the place at the moment im sitting out, when things queit down ill reprice things where im not selling things at less than the component costs. I appreciate all the excellent feedback  we have recived on this but an ok we are happy from the dev's would be appreciated. </p><p>Though i guess there are a lot of people buying up cheep rares in the hope that the price will rise again and i can imagine it will take quite a while for the dust to settle. </p><p>Strange thing and perhaps its my luck but i seem to get more rares than  imbuing materials which may create a bottle neck the other way. </p>

[kukubird]

I wasn't one of the people that got hit hard because I didn't have tons of rares.. but yes, a little notice would be great to when the rare rate is going to be fixed.... Some people got hit hard because of this rare harvest rate mistake... yeah you might say gooooood....... serves em right for having a lot of rares stored for crafting before the arre rate got buggered to hell. But I say having your net worth of plat for example go from 500 plat to 100 plat overnight doesn't feel quite right.  These are people that were not price gauging... just normal crafters that had a lot of rares saved for ease of crafting... in no way was it good customer relatons to screw people over that bad. So that being said.. a little heads up to when the fix is coming in would be much appreciated....

[greenmantle]

<cite>kukubird wrote:</cite><blockquote> Some people got hit hard because of this rare harvest rate mistake... yeah you might say gooooood....... serves em right for having a lot of rares stored for crafting before the arre rate got buggered to hell. But I say having your net worth of plat for example go from 500 plat to 100 plat overnight doesn't feel quite right.  These are people that were not price gauging... just normal crafters that had a lot of rares saved for ease of crafting... in no way was it good customer relatons to screw people over that bad. So that being said.. a little heads up to when the fix is coming in would be much appreciated.... </blockquote> 500p at old pricing your talking 600 to 700 rares just to make things easy?  Come on thats like trying to explain to the IRS the 2 tons of gold in the spare room was incase you wanted a new tooth. No matter what your intent that sort of horde in a limited market  is going to manipulate the price.

[Jrral]

<cite>kukubird wrote:</cite><blockquote>But I say having your net worth of plat for example go from 500 plat to 100 plat overnight doesn't feel quite right.  These are people that were not price gauging... just normal crafters that had a lot of rares saved for ease of crafting... in no way was it good customer relatons to screw people over that bad. </blockquote>500p? Even at pre-Gu36 prices that's at least 600-700 rares. What are you doing to accumulate that many rares? Even with a top-speed mount and the fastest harvesting tools, the only way you can accumulate that many is if you aren't doing anything <i>but</i> harvesting for them. And I'd imagine that if you've accumulated that much, you're already facing the problem that you're accumulating inventory faster than you can sell it. What did you <i>expect</i> to happen? If you harvested them, you haven't lost money. You may not make as much as you did before, but if I'm gifted with something worth $20 and now it's only worth $10, I haven't lost ten dollars. And if you bought those rares, I might suggest you read up on the Hunt brothers.

[Seltha-Larren]

<p>I'm quite disappointed with the change to drop rate - as part of normal sage business I would have a buffer of around 20 of each silver/coral, palladium/jasper, ruthenium/opal, rhodium/ruby, vanadium/pearl, acrylia/moonstone (ie 150pp of rares).  These are now worth on average half what they were (75pp loss).</p><p>I also stock over 300 mastercrafted spells covering levels 10-70 for many classes (ie around 200pp of rares went into making these spells).  These are now worth on average half what they were (100pp loss).</p><p>So I've taken a pretty harsh hit - nearly 200pp in losses.</p><p>Really what should have happened was the drop rate of the roots/pelts be reduced to be on par with that of the other rares, rather than making them all common.  It's supposed to be at least a little bit rare, right, or are we disposing with all handcrated recipes and labelling 'mastercrafted' as 'handcrafted' next update?</p>

[Calthine]

Seriously, just take your stuff off the market (or simply hold fast to your prices) and wait it out.  While there's no guarantee prices will re-normalize at pre-change levels, in my experience market fluctuations are just that - fluxes.  And it will flux back.

[Lathaine]

<p>yes price only can go up now if drop rate change <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>from my experience rare wood seem already fixed, but please reconsidere change done to stone/metal, too easy to get rare if they have 2x the drop rate of other rare. They was totaly fine at old drop rate, or a little increase, but sure must be very little compared to what was befor gu37.</p><p>if this rare drop like all other rare, then people will just harvest stone and have 2 times more rare than they can have from other node... that too much, no more effort but 2 times more reward, dont feel right.</p>

[metacell]

Jrral@Unrest wrote: <blockquote>I think, though, that the big reason that soft and hard metals, gems and loams are priced so much higher than pelts, roots and wood is supply. Pelt, root and wood come from nodes that only drop those rares. Hard metals and loams share a node, as do gems and soft metals, and since the drop rate for ore and stone nodes is the same as for any other node there's only half as many of each type of rare dropping off them. The upcoming hotfix is supposed to address this by doubling the rare drop rate from ore and stone nodes, so there'll be as many of each type of rare dropping off them as drop off the single-type nodes. That should ease pricing somewhat. </blockquote>You're right, supply is at least a large part of the reason for the high prices on loams/gems/metals. I'm not sure the doubling of ore/stone harvest rates will bring them close to the price of roots/pelts/wood though. Btw, the drop rates for stone and ore nodes were doubled in GU 37. The upcoming hotfix will adjust the rates down again. I don't think the Dark Empress <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> will undo the changes to stone/ore nodes, though. EDIT: Seems like xegonite, acrylia and rough moonstones have sunk low, while ebony remains high-priced. Dragonhide pelts and nimbus roots are still at the bottom, though, while spongy loam is at the top. (Runnyeye)

[kukubird]

Not arguing with the 2 people that thought 500 plat worth of rare goods was insane.. but you really weren't a horder if you ahd this much stuff up..... just a well stocked t7 of finished products for one tradeskill alone would have been an easy 100 p... then the extra few rares you would have to craft replacements... further go into other tiers...... then if you happened to have 2 crafters? some people 3 or more? Yeah, you don't realize how much stuff you have sometimes <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />..... and 500 was being conservative... Don't be so quick to jump on people and yell!   Horder!  Farmer! price gauger!  lol.... you can be very concerned about the economy and the new rare drop rate.. with just enjoying the game since it was released day 1 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[lilmohi]

<p>Did the drop rate nerf already go live?  I spent 3 hours over the weekend in t5 zones (lvl70 harvester with tools) and only nabbed 2 rares.</p>

[Calthine]

No, it's hasn't gone live yet (unless they patched this morning, I haven't checked). The PRNG is streaky, folks. 

[Rast]

<p>and some people will be streakier than others.  I could burn up on t4 (both with a lvl 70 and a lvl 30ish harvester) but went to t5 and couldn't get a thing...  Of course, I've never liked harvesting t5 as I hate all the old world t5 zones and not really sure where to harvest for t5 in EoF.</p>

[EQTTEQ]

<p>Can we look at the possibility that the current drop rate has been a combination of a minor change to the bonus tables, RNG love (has to happen sometimes) and positive reinforcement? </p><p>Honestly, who wants to leave a lucky streak? I keep harvesting because I am successful at it. So I get more rares than before. But I am getting more commons also. I am harvesting more, because it is working for me. </p><p>Perhaps I am deluded, and chose to ignore the black clockwork following me, but I don't see this as an evil plot to destroy the economy. So your horde has been devalued. A lot of the stuff you need to buy has also gone down in price (well, execept for Guido the Platinum Repository of Plat).</p>

[kukubird]

Well, i posted some sky is falling opinions..... of how rares would drop to like 6 gold a palladium etc... Revising my predictions if the drop rate isn't fixed..... been picking up palladiums for 4g now..... and think it might go even lower.... THE ONLY REASON RARE PRICE IS EVEN REMOTELY HOLDING UP... is becuase there are a few different types of buyers ... those thinking the rare rate will be nerfed significantly.... new crafters stockpiling and getting the bonus pristine level experience.... those replacing stock because stuff is selling faster.... When that stops..... you are going to see a flood like no other of rares lol....... I can see it now..... trading  1 : 1 palladiums for crabonite pst... Seriously.... it is getting bad..... now if we had the population of WOW... it would't be as bad as it is... However since we don't....... it will soon be like trying to sell ice to eskimo's .... tons of suppliers... no buyers.. [Removed for Content]

[Calthine]

that's a lot of ellipses.

[kukubird]

Great now I have to go look up the meaning of ellipses <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> lol

[Typhonian]

As a carpenter, I would argue that we should keep the RNG-love - the last week or so I've finally been able to make the various rare furniture without bankrupting myself.

[lilmohi]

<cite>kukubird wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, i posted some sky is falling opinions..... of how rares would drop to like 6 gold a palladium etc... Revising my predictions if the drop rate isn't fixed..... been picking up palladiums for 4g now..... and think it might go even lower.... THE ONLY REASON RARE PRICE IS EVEN REMOTELY HOLDING UP... is becuase there are a few different types of buyers ... those thinking the rare rate will be nerfed significantly.... new crafters stockpiling and getting the bonus pristine level experience.... those replacing stock because stuff is selling faster.... When that stops..... you are going to see a flood like no other of rares lol....... I can see it now..... trading  1 : 1 palladiums for crabonite pst... Seriously.... it is getting bad..... now if we had the population of WOW... it would't be as bad as it is... However since we don't....... it will soon be like trying to sell ice to eskimo's .... tons of suppliers... no buyers.. [Removed for Content] </blockquote><p> LOL what server do you play on?  I've seen maybe a 20% drop in prices for rares on my server, even steel is still pricing over 30gp which is just silly for t2 metal.  Especially since i can buy most master1's for about that (excepting the prime twink classes like druids and summoners).  Considering that harvesting has skyrocketed (i can't even turn around in most zones without running into a lvl70 sniping metal nodes) i'm surprised the prices haven't dropped more.</p><p>Also from what i've seen only in T2-T3 have i seen the dramatic rare drop rate, where i harvest a couple hourse and come out with 10 rares or so.  T4 is dramatically lower and by t5 the drop rate seems to be back where the streaky RNG is the factor in whether you get 1rare / hour or 5.</p><p>I realize that some classes like sages, and armorers (and other adept 3 makers) that can pretty much sell their products at any price as long as it's competitive.  However other classes like weaponsmiths and carpenters can only sell products if they obtain rares for a fraction of the price that they have traditionally been.  I can count the number of rare weapons i've sold with my weaponsmith on one hand in the last year (you can usually find a legendary weapon for about half what the equivalently tiered metal costs).  My jeweler has sold a few more pieces of jewelry than the weaponsmith but  the vast majority of his business is still in adept3's.</p><p>What really bothers me is that once the hotfix goes live the harvesting horde is going to quit and once again the price of rares is going to go out of reach and even higher than it was before.  However instead of this nerf which is getting hotfixed in, it is going to take a few years before anyone is brave enough to try to tweak the drop rates again.</p>

[Calthine]

<cite>kukubird wrote:</cite><blockquote>Great now I have to go look up the meaning of ellipses <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> lol </blockquote> the "dot dot dot dot" used instead of real punctuation.  And usually incorrectly!

[StormCinder]

<p>All of this commotion and, as far as I can tell from Dev notes, there was no tinkering with the "rng."  My impressions from FF seem to confirm that the impact of any supposed rng is miniscule when compared with the number and influence of known variables.  Continual tinkering with those variables will undoubtedly lead to a different subgroup becoming disgruntled.</p><p>"streakiness" is still a myth.  It's like "luck."  "Luck" is simply a combination of skill and organization.</p><p>And, as the old saying goes: "<b>I am a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it." --various attributions.</b></p><p>SC</p>

[Spyrit]

<p>Totally off topic.</p><p>It started with <i><span style="color: #ffff00"><b>Oh evil Tradeskill Empress</b></span></i></p><p>It has now changed to the <span style="color: #ffff00"><i><b>Dark Empress</b></i> </span></p><p><span style="color: #ffffff">Domino, I think you should change your signature and rightfully claim your title. We really do love you .........</span></p>

[Calthine]

<cite>StormCinder wrote:</cite><blockquote>"streakiness" is still a myth.  It's like "luck."  "Luck" is simply a combination of skill and organization.</blockquote> Eh, ti's that streakiness that let's people come up with astounding coincidences about how patting your head while using your left hand to mouse-click gets you more Insights and odd observations about how at 3am GMT you can get more rares in Zek. Conspiracy Theory FTW!

[melaine_dvarvensplitter]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>StormCinder wrote:</cite><blockquote>"streakiness" is still a myth.  It's like "luck."  "Luck" is simply a combination of skill and organization.</blockquote> Eh, ti's that streakiness that let's people come up with astounding coincidences about how patting your head while using your left hand to mouse-click gets you more Insights and odd observations about how at 3am GMT you can get more rares in Zek. Conspiracy Theory FTW! </blockquote>HAHAHAHA!! But the RNG is extremely streaky. I found it out today. I harvested all tiers and found about 10 rares total for the day upto this point. *Hopes to get a few more before bed in 2hrs.*

[Calthine]

/kicks the RNG I've gotten perhaps six rares total since I got back from Fan Faire.

[Domino]

<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=376893" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Tomorrow morning's update</a> should bring those harvesting changes promised.

[Jrral]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>/kicks the RNG I've gotten perhaps six rares total since I got back from Fan Faire. </blockquote>It was that way for me on Saturday. It seems tier-related, I get fewer rares (4-6 an hour) in my current harvest tier (skill 295, high end of T6) and more in lower tiers (8-10 an hour in T5, 10-12 an hour in T4 and lower). And of course there's a heavy bias towards roots, wood and pelts (in roughly descending order, and those three make up 50-75% of my take).

[Seraki]

<p>I got a few luckies and then dry from then on in teir 4 and nothing in teir 5 at all.  About 3 hours in each.</p><p>I really really wish the rocks vs mineral rate would balance.   Its really frustrating that priest types that use rock to get their ad 3 spells made have a much easier time of it than mages who need mineral.   Better yet I really wish the whole seperation thing had never happend.  I sighed with sadness when I came back to game and found I couldnt make any spell with ether one.    </p>

[Juddge]

What are the promised changes?

[Betty]

<p> I know the random number generator (or the rolling program or whatever) can be streaky, but when I spend 4 hours harvesting in TT on the stone and wood island (not to mention fighting off the HORDE of farmer players named Amsdzkdjj and Zdfkccaaaw) I get 7 moon stone and zero, I mean ZERO wood rares, there is a problem. Yes I can sell the moon stones and buy the wood rares, but the conversion rate is not 1 to 1, and I loose alot of money that way. Take a moment and check the prices on AB AH for Ebony wood and the Moonstones and you will get a more clear understanding. (roughly 25g for the Moonstone, and 50g+ for the Ebony, average).</p><p> Yes, some rares can and probably should be more rare then others. Yes, the system is streaky, and yes luck comes into play. However, given enough time at the given task of harvesting, the net result should NEVER, EVER be zero.</p><p> Your system is broken. And no, this is not just one isolated incident, this is over time and quite a few harvest sessions.</p>