NERF BAT

[Squigglle]

<p>We got hit</p><p>Wizard </p><ul><li>Spell Reach: Increased range by 1. </li><li>Enhance: Surge of flames: Increased duration bonus from 2 to 4 seconds per rank. </li><li>Fireshape: Increased duration from 25 to 30 seconds. </li><li>Enhance: Frostbound Gift: Increased duration bonus from 1 to 2 seconds per rank. </li><li>Iceshape: Increased duration from 20 to 24 seconds. </li><li>Enhance Concussive: Also improves casting speed by 0.2 seconds per rank. </li><li><span style="color: #cc0000"><b><u>Manaburn: Decreased manaburn damage/power ratio from 5:1 to 4:1.</u></b></span></li></ul>

[Dextera]

<p>1. This has already been discussed.</p><p>2. As a raiding Wizard, the nerf to Manaburn does not affect me. In fact, the other changes to our AAs have actually increased our group DPS.</p><p>3. All is good.</p>

[Kaycerzan]

I concurr. While I feel for the community of wizards that uses Manaburn in a raid scenario, the only effect this has is consuming more mana from people hunting heroics with it.  I still think this should be something like 4:1 v heroics and 8:1 v epics, but I suppose that might be asking too much. But yes, as a whole this topic has already been covered, it's been a known fact for weeks that manaburn damage was being reduced 20%, they just didn't change the damage cap from 50% to 40%, which i believe was the other half of the adjustment.

[simpwrx02]

<p>WOOT frigid gift gets 10 extra seconds from AAs  that is awesome.  <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>manaburn.... meh</p><p>inferno surge might actually be worth it to dump a few points into it, but I woudl have to give up my enhace vital conversion and I so like the 473 power I get from it right now.</p>

[bunnykiller69]

<p><img src="http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/2415/manaburngk8.jpg" border="0"></p><p>Am totally miffed by this choice this top-level achievement is already so neutered from its original form in eq 1. It's not even funny to hit it again with a nerf it's like shooting a dead horse. All those that say this isn't eq seems more like it everyday to me they are releasing the same expansions rofl.</p><p>1. It already held a cap of 50% max health damage doesn't that keep it in control already? That way you can't do more than 50% health, I mean come on the wizard is dropping all the mana they have for one hit its already caped why even lower the damage further? It's like beating an already handicapped kid because it made you feel better. I can't one shot a mob with this achievement because of the 50% cap so please devs enlighten me what was the point to make it suck more?</p><p>Can you say respec rofl...This is the first nerf in 2 years that I am not ok with it was excessive and dumb. Damage is the only thing my class dose well and devs should be very careful when lowering the effectiveness of anything that is a class defining ability.</p>

[simpwrx02]

When I was specced manaburn for about 2 weeks in December I never once only hit the mob for 50% of its health,  with freehand and brainstorming I was hitting for 63% with the nerfs to those 2 you woudl still be hitting it for 60% with no debuffs.  Also I only drained all of my power on one herioc named.  The spell is still ungodly powerful in herioc conttent and is even more [Removed for Content] on raids.

[RanmaBoyType]

<p>I am new to the wizzy community, as my next toon i am "leveling to 70 with" is a wizzy.  she currently is sitting at level 41.  for reference i currently have a 70 conji, templar, troubador, and SK.  im a dork i know</p><p>Anyway.  I took the manaburn line, obviously not for raiding, but for grouping.  I looked at it as a very powerful tool for heroic content (i 2 box my wizzy with my SK tanking)  The hit so far really does not affect me that much as i have yet never dropped all my power, as i hit the 50% damage cap frist.  However, for any raiding wizzy who uses this ability, it see this as a big whack in the face.</p><p>IMO this ability already in comparison is dwarfed by what necros can do with lifeburn.  Given that lifeburn is an overtime ability, in which for any amount the necro is healed during the effect, that heal gets turned into damage.  Add in the necros FD timer just so nicely matches the reusability of lifeburn, and the necros pet still does damage, AND if the necro can get back up (with a good tank) not taking aggro they still have a full power bar with which to do yet even more damage.</p><p>Compare to manaburn.  a 1 hit wonder, for now even less damage than is worth the power to cast for any epic encounter.  </p><p>It seems to me, if you want my real opinion, is SoE wanted to nerf lifeburn, and felt if they did it to lifeburn, everyone would cry wolf if they did not do exactly the same to manaburn.</p>

[KBern]

<cite>RanmaBoyType wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It seems to me, if you want my real opinion, is SoE wanted to nerf lifeburn, and felt if they did it to lifeburn, everyone would cry wolf if they did not do exactly the same to manaburn.</p></blockquote><p> Most necros knew some LB nerf was coming due the complaints read on the boards and heard from people in game.  No one I ever saw brought up Manaburn as a counterpart that should be nerfed also.</p><p>I think the only resemblance the two powers have is *burn as the suffix.</p>

[daray]

Manaburn is still as overpowered as it ever was for solo and heroic play. Manaburn is still as useless as it ever was for raiding. So really, I see no "nerf". Overall, I'd say we actually gained a little bit with the further enhancements to Iceshape and Frigid Gift. And to those that chose Manaburn for raiding: you might want to take another look at what you are doing on raids if you need manaburn to maintain acceptable dps.

[duuf]

I luv manaburn Its what wiz is all about ---->>>>>> BOOOOOOM!!!!! And its not useless when it comes to our raids. Manaburn, Lifeburn, Verdict FTW. IMO When you see a major raid named go from 10% to deader in seconds in large part because of 2 100k+  burns and verdict = not useless.

[daray]

<cite>duuf wrote:</cite><blockquote>IMO When you see a major raid named go from 10% to deader in seconds in large part because of 2 100k+  burns and verdict = not useless. </blockquote>Or you could just buy stakes if overall raid dps is an issue for your guild. Perhaps you already do.

[enrond]

<cite>daray wrote:</cite><blockquote>Manaburn is still as overpowered as it ever was for solo and heroic play. Manaburn is still as useless as it ever was for raiding. So really, I see no "nerf". Overall, I'd say we actually gained a little bit with the further enhancements to Iceshape and Frigid Gift. And to those that chose Manaburn for raiding: you might want to take another look at what you are doing on raids if you need manaburn to maintain acceptable dps. </blockquote><p> QFE - read up on what you are doing as a "raid" wizard, and what you should be doing zonewide, then tell me how you can sacrifice the aa it takes to spec manaburn, when you could be using the points elsewhere to increase your zonewide dps.</p><p> Thanks Soe for actually increasing the BEST aa ability we have - frigid/iceshape</p><p>Enrond - t7m</p>

[duuf]

Yep we stake em shake em and bake em till they deader.  DPS aint an issue gettn em deader sometimes is.<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Oh and we don't buy stakes we farm em.

[bunnykiller69]

<p>I was rather upset with this the other day, but after a respec and taking the speed tree all the way up to spell shifter with the mana reduce tree and the sorc spell lines for ice nova and fusion and such, I can put out more damage so much faster anyway. </p><p>So again laughable nerf that was pointless but I guess it's that same idea look busy at work or you don't have a job.</p><p> Did obelisk and valdon last night I was tearing though nameds so fast the party was laughing at them saying gesh are you sure these are heroic 71's and 72's they die sooo fast.</p><p>Mana burn was lame and now its lamer, Speed tree and mana reduce tree 100% most effective use of mana in raid or group situations mana burn I think was being abused by solo people to kill heroics for master drops. Only reason I can think of the nerf.</p>

[Glenolas]

<p> Manaburn is a handicap in anything except a fireworks show. </p><p>Good raid leaders won't  let a wizard who's specced with manaburn even get into the raid.    We get paid for the biggest total damage in the raid,  not the biggest single hit.   Cold hard continous burns get that.  </p><p>Do the math.   Even self buffed soloing and the right AA's you can do damage of 15x power using your regular spells.    Even a  soloing wizard limits the size of things he can kill if he's specced with it.      </p>

[simpwrx02]

<p>For soloing named manaburn is awesome, as you normally are not even close to runnign out of power.  the issue is that longer the named is alive the higher the chance of you getting squished is.  get a mob that has a ranged attack down to around 50-60% and freehand manaburn = dead mob, get a mob to 50-60 % with just normal spells and you still have a bit of time before you kill him as ice nova is likely down and still refreshing hence your odds of getting squished goes up.</p>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<p>manaburn + wrath of the burning price + ball of lava = dead any heroic </p><p>that is why people spec for manaburn.</p><p>after the 4:1 conversion speccing for manaburn on raids, is only beneficial as others have pointed out if:</p><p>#1 you have a crapton of power proccing gear and can keep your power topped off on any duration fight. </p><p>(even then this is difficult to keep up with a ice specc'd wizard with capped frigid gift duration--not to metion frigid gift's group dps increase)</p><p>#2 your raid force has downtime between pulls to recoup power/hp.</p>

[duuf]

<cite>Glenolas wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> Manaburn is a handicap in anything except a fireworks show. </p><p><b>Good raid leaders won't  let a wizard who's specced with manaburn even get into the raid.</b>    We get paid for the biggest total damage in the raid,  not the biggest single hit.   Cold hard continous burns get that.  </p><p>Do the math.   Even self buffed soloing and the right AA's you can do damage of 15x power using your regular spells.    Even a  soloing wizard limits the size of things he can kill if he's specced with it.      </p></blockquote>Absolutes are so easy to refute. Our guild is considered by many if not most the top raiding guilld on our server. On the way to the top both of our wiz were speccd mana burn and our "<strike>good</strike>"  no make that excellent raid leader called for it often in raid.

[enrond]

<p>Duuf how often do you use MB when you are burning through adds in an avatar fight, or contest. Mayong?</p><p>When are you in a situation where one large nuke is really needed to win one of these "tougher" fights?</p><p>If you can regularly get an Avatar or const. Mayong to 3-4pct, why would MB be the winning difference in the fight?</p><p>Have you considered the damage FG provides, raidwide, done by not only yourself, but by the warlock and illu in your adds group?</p><p>Not stirring the pot here but, MB just doesnt make sence to me /shrug</p><p>Enrond t7m</p>

[Dextera]

<cite>duuf wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Glenolas wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> Manaburn is a handicap in anything except a fireworks show. </p><p><b>Good raid leaders won't  let a wizard who's specced with manaburn even get into the raid.</b>    We get paid for the biggest total damage in the raid,  not the biggest single hit.   Cold hard continous burns get that.  </p><p>Do the math.   Even self buffed soloing and the right AA's you can do damage of 15x power using your regular spells.    Even a  soloing wizard limits the size of things he can kill if he's specced with it.      </p></blockquote>Absolutes are so easy to refute. Our guild is considered by many if not most the top raiding guilld on our server. On the way to the top both of our wiz were speccd mana burn and our "<strike>good</strike>"  no make that excellent raid leader called for it often in raid. </blockquote> Your Wizards are parsing <b>no where near</b> <b>their max</b> if they're spec'd Manaburn. Compare named parses to other Wizards and you'll definately notice a difference. You're giving up too much to spec Manaburn, post a few parses if you don't believe it.

[suroktheslayer5]

I'm speced str/agi so going down the powerline for EoF AA seems rational in terms of uping my power...manaburn is an added bonus. Granted MB was and perhaps still is overpowered for heroics, for raiding it's a power dump. Don't have Ice Nova or Fusion up yet but the mob is about to go down, MB the mofo! MB has it's uses in raiding but it's not something you want to utilize every time it's up. There's an another wizzy in our guild that MBs whatever chance he could get but that didn't nesscarly gave him top dps. MB during a raid should be used carfuly and calculated but it can give you a nice dps boost when used intelligently. <img src="http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b344/suroktheslayer/Suroksig.jpg" border="0">

[Sepharo]

<p>OK, I realize this has nothing to do with the MB nerf, but I wondered if Wrath of the Burning Prince would work on Ice Comet/Ice Nova if you used Fireshape --> WotBP --> Ice Comet/Nova</p><p> My wizzie is only 48 so I haven't been able to try this yet on my own</p>

[Sepharo]

For that matter, could you use this with the Ice Wind family of spells for massive AE damage?

[simpwrx02]

<p>Wrath of the Burning Prince will only net you the super nuke aspect if the spell is heat based in origin.  If you use fireshape and then ice nova it will crit the spell, but will not give you the large secondary nuke.  For AoEs at least with Firestorm it will only make the spell crit and will not give the super nuke.</p>