I'm not having... fun :(

[juraian]

Hi, I've played EQ2 before on launch, again after KoS came out-- I enjoyed the game, and then I rolled on Nagafen.  I leveled a defiler up to lv25 (nothing too extensive) but my pvp fights were fun.  People would fight me, I'd ward up and kill them through a battle of attrition. But unfortunately, now that I have returned after several months, I find that it's not possible for me to enjoy pvp at all.  I don't even know why, anymore.  I don't want to complain about pvp, but I'm confused as to why I can't hurt anybody in pvp, and why everybody can seemingly hurt me.  (This is coming from my new character, not my defiler). Are the majority of people pvping in the pre-20s all twinked out? I can't for the life of me think of any other reason besides that.  In fact, lvl13s can kill both me and my shadowknight friend at lv17 2v1-- I'm just completely lost, and it's making me wish I would've rolled on AB, because pvp is everywhere, and I can't even scratch anybody. So, if anybody has any help as to what I can do to remedy my "lose no matter what" thing that's going on, and/or help explain why these players can kill me effortlessly, I'd greatly appreciate it. I have so much fun with the combat in this game... but now in commonlands it's oozing with pvp and everywhere I go I take about 100+dmg from level 13s while dealing around 7-30 with them.  I have some Adept 1s-- do they all have Masters 1s? Do people Master II dmg spells to pvp at low levels? I dunno, I just feel useless, weak, and it's depressing.  Also, I just have a quick question-- I remember there being armor quests you could do for... something like a set of armor where they share the same name? I think my defiler's was called dragoon or something? I can't remember, but does anybody know where one starts these quests? I can't remember (FP). Thanks~

[Nuhus]

Unless they changed the NPC's I think it's in north freeport inside the inn. As far as PvP. Yeah, theres quite a few twinks T2 and T3. When PvP was released I started on the FP side. Then most of my friends went to Qeynos because it was the under dog in population. But is my main guild on PvP now Q side. I didn't exile I started a new. It's rough when you first start out. But I enjoyed building my character and wealth up to get through it. (prices seem high compared to PVE). I found my money making nich in crafting and have been leveling adventuring up as well.

[Leemeg]

Hey, I can see where you get it from, I was in the same position myself. I did level up to 70 a couple months after KoS was relased and had alot of fun with it. Then I started an alt when EoF was released, and got into the same thing. No way to fight back at the twinked players (unless you twinked yourself, or found other areas to level past the lower tiers). Didn't enjoy it at all. Rerolled on a PvE server, and have been there since <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> When I played, it was from level 15 to about 25-30 that was the worst when it come to twinked players. It was better in the middle tiers.

[juraian]

Thanks =) It kinda sucks, because even my friend who is a major pvp-lover isn't enjoying this.  It's almost stupid how underpowered we are compared to them.  It's hard keeping him to play a game, especially a game where he gets dominated by everybody, even people 4 levels lower.

[Norrsken]

<cite>juraian wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thanks =) It kinda sucks, because even my friend who is a major pvp-lover isn't enjoying this.  It's almost stupid how underpowered we are compared to them.  It's hard keeping him to play a game, especially a game where he gets dominated by everybody, even people 4 levels lower. </blockquote>Check out the threads on how to get started pvpin in eq2. Like any other MMO, to succeed int his game you need gear. Unlike most other MMOs, twinking out heavily starts as soon as pvp does. Its not just endgame toons that sit in uber gear, but they are rampant in the lower tiers too. However, shoudl you get yourselves some mastercrafted gear and spells, you would be able to fight back. And oh yeah, get aas too. This game has some really neat pvp once you get some gear. Before that you are gonna stay everyones [Removed for Content].

[novok]

<p>The state of the PvP servers now is that you have to put time into preparing for PvP. You really cannot just exp to 10 and jump right in. Levels 1 to 9 are where the initial preparation needs to start - This is the ONE time in your character's life that you will be totally free to do so without watching your back. Use the time wisely. Sure it's easy (and tempting) to  get to level 10 in an hour or so and get out there to join the fray. Here's what I would do if starting a new toon on PvP:</p><ol><li>Research the class I am making. Find out what spells I am getting and at what level. Make a list of the ones I expect to be using up until level 20. Most will be T2, maybe a couple will be T1 that don't get upgraded until later. Find out what rares are needed to make adept 3 for these (asking in crafting will usually get a response). Start a rares list.</li><li>Depending on your class, you will want to have blackened iron (chain, plate), cured pelt (leather), or sisal root (cloth) for armor. 7 of them. Add this to your list. Add another 2 sisal for hex dolls. Now for weapons and shields: depending on class, you will want 2 or 3 rares which can beany combination of blackened iron, severed bone, cured pelt. Add these to your list. One more thing - jewelry. This will be eihter silver or coral depending on your class. Add 5 to the list. Quite a few rares on that list now, aren't there? Don't get discouraged, the rare drop rate in T1 and T2 is pretty high, and usually I can get them in about 6 hours of harvesting give or take. OK you now have your first goal, so now it's time to roll your toon.</li><li>Level to 4. Stop doing quests (and lock your combat exp - don't worry I am not telling you to level lock, you will be levelling plenty fast without it), start harvesting. Get all harvesting skills to at least 20 (fishing optional). If you get any rares that are on your list (they would be for spells), great. Any other rares you come across keep also as you will be able to get a bit of coin going with them later.</li><li>Go to a tradeskill instance and do the tradeskill tutorial quests. You should have enough materials to do them with from the harvesting you just did. It takes about 30 minutes, and you will get several free recipe books for completing them, also this should bring your crafting level to at least 8. While you were doing these, you obtained a recipe to make T1 backpacks. Go ahead and make enough to fill all your empty backpack slots with one. Now you have some inventory space. While you are at it, you can make either a couple of backpacks or a couple of strongboxes in order to set up your store and strat selling any extra rares (and other things) you might come across. If at any time you ding 9 during this, take a second to go outside and talk to the crafting trainer to get a free level to 10 and become a scholar, outfitter, or craftsman. I have found that personally that either a scholar or an outfitter rpoves to be more useful than a craftsman. If you truly want to be self sufficient, at this point you can roll another 2 toons in order to have one of each, allowing you to make anything you might need up until level 20.</li><li>Now it's time to hit Commonlands or Antonica for T2 harvesting. GF and DLW have T2 nodes also, but they are somewhat scarcer. You are still level 4 (although you might have gained a level or 2 from location discoveries), so be careful of mob agro, but it is fairly easy to avoid in these zones.</li><li>Harvest a while, checking off from your rares list as you find things. Any rares you find that are above and beyond that list should go into your store - you should find that you can get a pretty decent price for most of them. You can continue until you have what you need, or you can intersperse your harvesting with the next step to break up the monotony.</li><li>Pick up the following lore and legend books: goblin (GF Nursery), orc (CL crossroads, might be a bit difficult for good characters because of guards), skeleton (Kelethin in GF, evil be wary of guards), treant (Orc Hill in GF), gnoll (Gnollslayer's Keep in Ant). You can get the bixie book from Crushbone Keep IF you know someone high enough to clear the level 20ish orcs guarding it. Read the books to get the quest, then start working on them. Gnolls - right outside the North Qeynos gates, skeletons - in GF near Loping Plains or in DLW, goblins - near the Nursery, bixies - near Nursery, orcs - GF or CL, treants, Green Knoll in GF. Once you have the last body part needed, just hang onto it for the time being - you don't want to examine it until you are level 10 in order to get AA (which BTW is the purpose of doing these quests).</li><li>Hopefully by now you have made a bit of coin selling from your store, as this part will take a bit over a gold to do. Go to the sage in SQ, North Freeport, or Kelethin and buy all the "History of...." books they have for sale. Read them and recieve the quests they give. These quests involve nothing more than going to various world locations. Each quest has 3 locations, after visiting each of which you must read the book. After the 3rd location, postpone reading the book until you have hit level 10 (more AA exp). Also be aware that while doing these quests you will more than likely level some more due to location discoveries.</li><li>OK so you have followed along through all this and have all the materials you need for your gear and spells. Time to craft again. Level up your crafters, making sure that you buty the advanced book for each level. Most should be affordable, there may be the odd one or so up until level 20 that is expensive, but for the most part you should be able to pay for them from the proceeds from your store. Make (or have made by a friendly crafter) the items you listed when you first started and...</li><li>At this point you can level to 10, finish all the quests you have prepared (this should get you to 12, able to use the mastercrafted gear you have ready, with about 5 AAs), and scribe your adept 3's up to 12.</li></ol><p>This is by no means comprehensive, nor is it the only way to go. What I have set forht here takes me approx. 14-16 hours of time PLAYED. YMMV of course. But I think you will find that if you have followed along this path that you will have a fighting chance out there..... </p>

[wutru]

<p>This is the problem with EQ2 PvP.</p><p><b>Why is it required</b>  to grind away harvesting and tradeskills just to compete?  It's bad enough we need to grind to level 70 adventurer/tradeskiller, and don't forget multiple crafter alts to twink ourselves out even more.  It's just as bad in WoW where raid gear was required just to compete in BGs.</p><p>Before anyone says it's not required, you're wrong, a lvl 10 newb with starter zone gear, items, and appIVs have ZERO chance against a MasterCrafted twink with Adept 3s and Master spells, level locked AAs, etc.  There is <b>NO CHALLENGE</b> in steamrolling newbs.</p><p>I don't even feel like playing anymore and feel discouraged, because i know i need to grind out tradeskills and AAs just to compete!  It's ridiculous.  I'm sure some who came back to EQ2 share the same feelings.  I'm so glad Warhammer is coming out soon, even though i have a feeling it's not going to be great either.</p><p>EDIT: I just want to add that you did a good job with that Lois, but it's something i would not do, too time consuming.  <img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Brigh]

There is a pvp forum btw. They also changed pvp since you left. If you were a wiz (like me) hitting for 1000 after resists with IC/IN, you now get to hit for less <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Ssyzr]

wutru wrote <blockquote><p>Before anyone says it's not required, you're wrong, a lvl 10 newb with starter zone gear, items, and appIVs have ZERO chance against a MasterCrafted twink with Adept 3s and Master spells, level locked AAs, etc.  There is <b>NO CHALLENGE</b> in steamrolling newbs.</p></blockquote><p> Though I would agree with you that there would be little challenge in "steamrolling newbs", what do you propose to do? The time that these people have invested to get Mastercrafted, Adept 3's/ Master spells and aa's should have a reward don't you think? What is the point in having different tiers of anything in the game if in the end it all amounts to the same thing?</p><p> Though I understand your frustration I do not agree - players should be rewarded for the time and money spent to gear up their characters. The only alternative is pre-packaged characters all wearing the same gear and casting the same spells. </p><p><blockquote>I just want to add that you did a good job with that Lois, but it's something i would not do, too time consuming</blockquote></p><p>This would be the reason I do not agree with you. With the information at hand you have the ability to compete yet you still will not do so. You want the ability to stand toe to toe against the best geared/spelled/aa'ed characters for your level, but you want to do it in apprentice and treasured? How would they feel?</p><p> The best suggestion I can see would be to play on a PvE server. You will still have to compete with better geared characters but at least they won't kill you.</p>

[wutru]

Ssyzr@Oasis wrote: <blockquote>wutru wrote <blockquote><p>Before anyone says it's not required, you're wrong, a lvl 10 newb with starter zone gear, items, and appIVs have ZERO chance against a MasterCrafted twink with Adept 3s and Master spells, level locked AAs, etc.  There is <b>NO CHALLENGE</b> in steamrolling newbs.</p></blockquote><p> Though I would agree with you that there would be little challenge in "steamrolling newbs", what do you propose to do? The time that these people have invested to get Mastercrafted, Adept 3's/ Master spells and aa's should have a reward don't you think? What is the point in having different tiers of anything in the game if in the end it all amounts to the same thing?</p><p> Though I understand your frustration I do not agree - players should be rewarded for the time and money spent to gear up their characters. The only alternative is pre-packaged characters all wearing the same gear and casting the same spells. </p><blockquote>I just want to add that you did a good job with that Lois, but it's something i would not do, too time consuming</blockquote><p>This would be the reason I do not agree with you. With the information at hand you have the ability to compete yet you still will not do so. You want the ability to stand toe to toe against the best geared/spelled/aa'ed characters for your level, but you want to do it in apprentice and treasured? How would they feel?</p><p> The best suggestion I can see would be to play on a PvE server. You will still have to compete with better geared characters but at least they won't kill you.</p></blockquote><p>There is a solution though, but I know it will never get implemented and a lot of people would be against it.</p><ul><li>Make the PvP gear easier to get for lower tiers, and harder to get at higher tiers.  The faction requirement is way too high currently and needs to be scaled by tier.</li><li>Secondly, require PvP faction gear, items, etc. mandatory for PvP only.  They should be separate from PvE/Tradeskill gear.  Actually, they should introduce PvP Tradeskill gear, now that I think about it. </li></ul><p>I want a challenge or at least a fighting chance.  The way PvP is set up now, i get neither, unless i harvest or tradeskill.  Now tell me, why do i have to harvest to PvP, doesn't that sound ridiculous?  Why do i have to farm to compete or to have a chance of survival?  I'd rather farm players for infamy and status, not nodes, ores, and pelts!  That sounds too much like PvE for me, not PvP.</p><p>EQ2 PvP is just a big joke right now, because you need to PvE to even have a chance at PvP.</p><ul><li>You need to PvE to harvest.</li><li>You need to PvE to tradeskill.</li><li>You need to PvE to get AA.</li><li>You need to PvE to level lock.</li></ul><p>Now, don't get me wrong.  I like PvE too, but I just don't want it to be necessary in order to compete, and I certainly don't want to grind for days and weeks just to mastercraft a main character at lvl 10. <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Ssyzr]

<p>You make some very good points <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Since I don't play PvP I cannot say how it would be implimented, but now that I have a better idea of what you are saying perhaps a few changes could improve how new players experience PvP. </p><p>One possible solution to people who do not want to harvest/tradeskill for gear is to sell transmutables (treasured/adept/masters) for the purpose of buying mastercrafted gear. I am not sure what your server is like but low levels coming into the game can make a small fortune selling these items before even hitting level 10. Farming is still a requirement, but I don't think it would be as time intensive as leveling a tradeskill and finding enough rares. (or pick one trade and do both)</p>

[Ssyzr]

<p><blockquote>and I certainly don't want to grind for days and weeks just to mastercraft a main character at lvl 10.</blockquote></p><p> But thats the problem! I spent much more time than that to build up my level 13 to be as tough as possible. Several plat and hours of my time, not just days - weeks (months for 2 of my masters). How much time would you feel is appropriate that a new player should compete with mine? *hypothetical - I do not play on PvP*</p><p>I agree that there probably should be other options for getting gear on the PvP servers. Though I wonder how much a new player would benefit from such a feature - would you not have to kill these twinks for some type of point system to earn gear? Sure, I can see making the point system scale so it would be easier to get at the lower levels, but at the same time you run the risk of trivializing all of the content in an attempt to ballance the new players with the twinks. I don't think it would be right to have all of the players killing mobs at the same speed and ease as many twinks are able. </p><p>I do understand the problems that you are talking about, its the reason I don't enjoy PvP ! A simple solution however is likely not possible. </p>

[Bobba]

<p>I don't thing its a big problem to earn platz on naggy, even if u dont have a 70 toon.</p><p>I started from the scratch on naggy 3 month ago and didnt have any friends there that could help out with gold or gear, but i made nearly 100 plat on broker within the first month simply by harvesting in Antonica with a toon below lvl 10 + tradeskilling (especially crafting and selling t2 adornments).</p><p>You just need to keep the pvp sever philosophy and twink out ur toon on every level from lvl 10+, then you will have fun imo</p>

[Wy]

My girlfriend and I originally rolled on the RPPVP server, since that was the type of server we liked to play on in WoW, thinking we'd learn the game that way. But the massive numbers of totally OOC yells, the ridiculous amount of PVP the moment we started out in the newbie zone for Neriak, etc etc were a huge turn off right off the bat, before we could even hit level 10 to at least flag for PVP. We went to a RP server instead. I love this game so far, but I don't think PVP will do much for me, and I usually love it. ;_;

[Tralex]

<p>So i'm confused.. The complaint is that people who work 5x harder on their character should be just as powerful as someone who just does the beginning quests and doesn't bother working hard for gear/spells? I think low tier twinking is silly, but that doesn't mean that its unfair. You have the ability to do it. Its up to you to do it. If you don't want to, deal with it and level past or don't roll on a freaking PvP server. PvP servers are for the people who WANT to work 5x harder on their character and always have the best gear.</p><p>Seriously, whats the freaking problem?</p>

[Wy]

I'm afraid I'm inclined to agree that it's hard to knock twinking when you have the choice not to engage in it, or to engage in it, depending on how much you want to rock at PVP. I myself am in the habit of trying to snag the best gear I can regardless of level, though you won't find me spending massive amounts of gold and platinum on armor until much later in the game I think. I just didn't like the atmosphere of the server I was on, personally, but I'd hardly knock PVP, and might even go back there with my girl later after we've experienced the rest of the game.

[wutru]

<cite>Tralexer wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So i'm confused.. The complaint is that people who work 5x harder on their character should be just as powerful as someone who just does the beginning quests and doesn't bother working hard for gear/spells? I think low tier twinking is silly, but that doesn't mean that its unfair. You have the ability to do it. Its up to you to do it. If you don't want to, deal with it and level past or don't roll on a freaking PvP server. PvP servers are for the people who WANT to work 5x harder on their character and always have the best gear.</p><p>Seriously, whats the freaking problem?</p></blockquote><p> Work! Work! Work!</p><p>You keep saying"work" for it...which is silly.  Twinked players either bought plat online or have been playing longer.  There was no work involved.  It's easy to craft, harvest, and twink.  It's just requires time, that's it.  Do you really think a new person to EQ2 is really going to know which rares to harvest, what to craft, what level locking is, and so on? Of course not, he's going to get to level to 10+ and find out he's going to get his ... handed to him, with ZERO chance of defending himself.  </p><p>I don't think a newbie should have to be as powerful as a veteran, but veterans shouldn't be unbeatable while the newbie has ZERO chance to even fight back.  You think a veteran's health should never go down while a newbie pounds on him with every spell or combat art he's got?  Oh and don't forget, they're both the same level, so how is that fair?  And yes i saw this happen.</p><p>And yes, low tier twinking is unfair.  There is NO CHALLENGE involved against a newbie.  If twinked out players are so good, they need to fight someone with a challenge.  But it won't happen, because they want an UNFAIR advantage against non-twinked, skill-less newbs.</p><p>I just can't believe some of you are defending this broken pvp system.  I'm glad some players do complain though, so SOE can fix the problems.  If not, we'd still playing the same PvP when it was released, which was even worse than it is now.</p>

[Ferunnia]

So you want a cookie cutter-type game where all classes are the same? And gear you work hard for does nothing but make you look purty? What's wrong with you? Seriously, this game has always catered to the people willing to devote more time to it, and who don't expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter. What is it that makes people like you think that getting it all given to you and not having to work for something will make it feel worthwhile? The idea that nothing we do, no effort we make, will make us better than we are at level 1 with freaking no-stat armor, and two app1 spells is ridiculous. Get over yerself, quit whining, leave the game if you don't have the patience to grind a little and earn what you want. The whole point of the "RPG" in mmorpg is to adventure and travel and kill crap to discover stuff to help you fight better, look cooler, or just give you the prestige of having 'uber l33t weapon of the gods'. . . Grow up, it's a game of achievement, and some people are willing to put that effort in. You've got a comprehensive guide posted by someone earlier that gives you the means to compete within a DAY. If you aren't willing to devote even one day to not sucking quite as bad you might as well give it up in this game. Anything worth doing in this game other than socializing takes time.

[Wy]

<cite>Ferunnia wrote:</cite><blockquote>So you want a cookie cutter-type game where all classes are the same? And gear you work hard for does nothing but make you look purty? What's wrong with you? Seriously, this game has always catered to the people willing to devote more time to it, and who don't expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter. What is it that makes people like you think that getting it all given to you and not having to work for something will make it feel worthwhile? The idea that nothing we do, no effort we make, will make us better than we are at level 1 with freaking no-stat armor, and two app1 spells is ridiculous. Get over yerself, quit whining, leave the game if you don't have the patience to grind a little and earn what you want. The whole point of the "RPG" in mmorpg is to adventure and travel and kill crap to discover stuff to help you fight better, look cooler, or just give you the prestige of having 'uber l33t weapon of the gods'. . . Grow up, it's a game of achievement, and some people are willing to put that effort in. You've got a comprehensive guide posted by someone earlier that gives you the means to compete within a DAY. If you aren't willing to devote even one day to not sucking quite as bad you might as well give it up in this game. Anything worth doing in this game other than socializing takes time. </blockquote>Brutal delivery, but to the point and for the most part, rather true. I feel like the forums have PVP now.

[Bog]

<p>Lois, I had my account since 04' and I'm dumb at MMO I guess I nevered taken the time to research and print much needed information and with daily RL makes it no easier. Then you came and took the time to share what makes the game fun and PVP enjoyable, in this thread set the foundation to understanding how to begin a great charecter. Even though I did that horrible Grender quest 'I think', I'm rerolling again because I know now why I suck so badly. Plus I can't stand my female 'look' toon because she reminds me of my mother who I love <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, something about mom killing Orcs don't go hand to hand anyway thank you so much for taking the time to post. </p><p>Everyone else who suck at PVP/MMO theirs a reason for it! We need to listen. </p><p>Now I'm drooling to play.</p><p>Only Negative I have with PVP server is the exchange/spam, both! In PVP it should be hard work with time to earn gear and understanding your Toon. If People can buy plat online and then grief anyone then and only then could I understand the poster. I wish the exchange was removed only on PVP servers and spammers like gmworks was found and banned thier accounts; closed down! Thier should be some balance to MMO. </p>

[wutru]

<cite>Ferunnia wrote:</cite><blockquote>So you want a cookie cutter-type game where all classes are the same? And gear you work hard for does nothing but make you look purty? What's wrong with you? Seriously, this game has always catered to the people willing to devote more time to it, and who don't expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter. What is it that makes people like you think that getting it all given to you and not having to work for something will make it feel worthwhile? The idea that nothing we do, no effort we make, will make us better than we are at level 1 with freaking no-stat armor, and two app1 spells is ridiculous. Get over yerself, quit whining, leave the game if you don't have the patience to grind a little and earn what you want. The whole point of the "RPG" in mmorpg is to adventure and travel and kill crap to discover stuff to help you fight better, look cooler, or just give you the prestige of having 'uber l33t weapon of the gods'. . . Grow up, it's a game of achievement, and some people are willing to put that effort in. You've got a comprehensive guide posted by someone earlier that gives you the means to compete within a DAY. If you aren't willing to devote even one day to not sucking quite as bad you might as well give it up in this game. Anything worth doing in this game other than socializing takes time. </blockquote><p> You've totally missed the point, and your rant was for nothing.  I'll try to explain it and hope you can comprehend.</p><p>I want an actual challenge in pvp.  The current setup isn't challenging.  Understand now?  I've already offered some ideas and suggestions, and i know everyone wouldn't like them.  I'm just stating and ranting what's wrong with the current system.</p><p>A. The city pvp faction gear should be easily attainable for lower tiers, harder to obtain as the tiers get higher.</p><p>B. The pvp gear should be on par with mastercrafted gear and items, if isn't already.  How many people even have the pvp gear for the appropiate tier?  I bet not many, so it's basically useless?</p><p>Now why is everyone against this?  Why don't others want a challenge?  The answer is simple, because you want to steamroll newbs with NO CHALLENGE.</p><p>I'm now done with this post because some people just don't get it.</p>

[Lornick]

<cite>wutru wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> You've totally missed the point, and your rant was for nothing.  I'll try to explain it and hope you can comprehend.</p><p>I want an actual challenge in pvp.  The current setup isn't challenging.  Understand now?  I've already offered some ideas and suggestions, and i know everyone wouldn't like them.  I'm just stating and ranting what's wrong with the current system.</p><p>A. The city pvp faction gear should be easily attainable for lower tiers, harder to obtain as the tiers get higher.</p><p>B. The pvp gear should be on par with mastercrafted gear and items, if isn't already.  How many people even have the pvp gear for the appropiate tier?  I bet not many, so it's basically useless?</p><p>Now why is everyone against this?  Why don't others want a challenge?  The answer is simple, because you want to steamroll newbs with NO CHALLENGE.</p><p>I'm now done with this post because some people just don't get it.</p></blockquote><p>I don't play pvp.  I don't care about pvp.  Normally I wouldn't even bother posting on the subject.  But I just can't see such flawed logic posted w/o posting the inconsistancies.  You just aren't making any sense man.  Even in your proposed system of pvp gear easier to attain at lower levels there will still be a system of the "have's" and "have nots".  The people who have been pvp'ing will have earned better gear then the true noobs.  The true noob will still be just as easy to defeat as before.</p><p>The other major flaw to your argument is the assumption that there is no challenge in pvp.  Sure there is if your fighting someone that is a challenge appropriate encounter.  If you want to be lazy and skip the work of improving your character with the means provided to you then that's fine.  But you'll be limited to fighting similarly lazy players...  Honestly it sounds like you belong on a PVE server. </p>