What will be the new MT group

[Guldor]

with all the hate transfer changes in teh next LU what do you think will be our new MT grp for raids. as far as i think i want to keep the 3 healers and the dirge. plus me that makes already 5 in the group. so there is just 1 more slot open for hate transfer. atm i think i will try a coercer instead of the assasin that i am raiding with im my current goup. so my group will look something like this: Guardian, Templar, Mystik, Warden, Dirge, Coercer i see alot of people use defilers in the mystic slot. we got no raid able defiler in our guild atm. can anyone tell me why they use a defiler over a mystic ?

[Jackula]

Short form: MT, Defiler, Templar, Dirge, Coercer, Swashbuckler or Assassin Long form: Defiler is chosen over Mystic because Defiler buffs are better for the MT group.  This is why you will usually see a Templar over an Inquisitor in the MT group as well.  It's just about buffs.  If you have no Defiler, a Mystic can still do the job fine.  Having a Mystic is far better than not having either type of shaman at all. People will typically have either a Warden or a Coercer in the MT group, but usually not both.  I have had the Warden in the MT for harder encounters or for cures in the past, but they can still heal and cure outside of the MT group.  Personally, I'm a big fan of coercers. Your last slot is usually given to a hate transfer class, either Swashbuckler (does more AE attacks, gives better hate when facing multiple mobs) or an Assassin (does more single target dps, also gives the MT Apply Poison, which is a nice poison proc buff).  When the hate changes go through next week, both Swashbucklers and Assassins hate transfer will be identical at master, giving you 18% hate transfer (which is a significant reduction.  Currently, my swash gives me 27% hate transfer).  Swashbuckler and Assassin hate transfer didn't stack in the past.  I am going to guess they will not be stacking after the upcoming change either, but I do not know for sure. The Dirges hate gain buff (Hyrans' Seething Sonata) is being changed from 41% hate gain down to 36% hate gain (at master level).  Hyran's will continue to add to your aggression skill as well.  I think it will be +29 aggression, but I may be slightly off on these numbers.  I'm going by memory on something that hasn't gone live yet. The Coercers hate gain buff (Enraging Demeanor) is being changed from 49% hate gain to 17% hate gain and 17% hate transfer (again this is at master level).  I am guessing that the Coercers new hate transfer WILL stack with either a Swashbucklers or an Assassins. Assuming there is a cap on hate transfer of 50% and hate gain of 50%, you could never reach the hate transfer cap (swash and assass don't stack) previously, and a dirge and coercer together far exceed the hate gain cap of 50%. The only other places to get hate gain that I know of are the Bracelet of the Chime (+5% hate gain) from the avatar of valor (which is out of the reach of the majority of MTs), and from the warriors 4th STR AA which when maxed at 8 points nets you just under 9% hate gain. Any MTs that can get the Bracelet of the Chime and spend the AAs can near the 50% hate gain cap with a dirge.  That is out of my reach for some time yet.  As such, my ideal set up is MT, Templar, Defiler, Dirge, Coercer, Swashbuckler or Assassin.  Without an avatar drop and not requiring 8 points spent in the 4th STR AA, I can hit the hate gain cap (Dirge 36% + Coercer 17%).  I will be getting more hate transferred percentage wise, now sitting at 35% (Swashbucklers or Assassins 18% + Coercers 17%), although I am not sure how much I hate I will be get from the Coercer as they aren't dps machines.  That fact acknowledged, the Coercer offers much to the MT group.  Here's why I love Coercers: - coercer has Ease (great mana regen) so the dirge can drop Bria's (mana regen) and play a different song to increase MT group damage.  If needed, the dirge can throw Bria's back on too for quick power ups as they both stack but really the coercer is all you need. - coercer has Impetus, a +78 DPS buff - coercers Signet of Enlightenment buff increases the MT groups INT and AGI by +85, which helps avoidance and proc/spell damage.  Helpful to MT, both scouts, coercer and both healers in varying degrees but everyone benefits - coercer can cast channel to redistribute the groups power.  This has saved the day more than once for us - coercer can ward off a power drain - coercer can increase the healers crit heals by 24% - if they spec for it, coercer can cast Thoughtsnap (works like Rescue does) once every 90 seconds and get that stray, overaggroed, memwiping, etc mob back to the MT.  Coercers debate the usefulness of speccing for Thoughtsnap.  I will say in the past it made fights like Tarinax easier, and has saved more than one foolish mage The one drawback I see to my preferred set up for what I have to work with and where I'm at progression wise is that I have two classes that can regen power in my group and typically I'm asking one of them to not even use that ability.  If one of the other three groups doesn't have a power regen class in their group, they probably think I'm greedy for hogging two of them and would like to throw stones at me.  I actually have asked both here and on eq2flames for feedback on that specifically and no one really wanted to touch on the question of that being a waste of resources and me needing to not be greedy with two power regen classes, or it being totally fine. Either way, especially after the upcoming changes, I think MT, Defiler, Templar, Dirge, Coercer, Swashbuckler/Assassin is going to be ideal for many players still progressing through  KoS and EoF.  I belong to a raid alliance of regualr members that meets at certain times during the week, not a raiding guild.  We were able to clear the first four names in MMIS like pros for example (by our second trip in), but haven't beat Mayong yet.  We still have much to learn and gear to obtain in EoF.  I probably won't ever kill an avatar, or at least not until RoK.  That's where my perspective is coming from.  Maybe that background info will put my post into better perspective  for you, and why I say what I say. As always, I'm happy to read how players that have progressed farther are managing things.

[Grumpy_Warrior_01]

<p>Awesome post Jackula, thanks.</p>

[salle]

Hmm, are you sure that assasin and swashy hate transfer doesn't stack? (both in coming update and in the past I can't remember that they didn't stack when I had both swash and assasin in group) Just seems a bit illogical to have lessened their hate transfer buff to 17% if they didn't together get over the 50% cap... now you can't reach the cap with both, but need assasin, swashy and a coercer to get over 50% and then it's with 1% think that's  a fairly clear indication that they will stack im ho.  (Dirge and Coercer hate buff stacks to 53%)

[Wilin]

It's a decent rationale, but don't forget that pallies have a 42%(?) transfer and stacking that with either a swashie or assassin would put you way above the cap also.

[mafoe]

Are you guys quite short that there will be aggro changes? They were announced, but then I thought I heard that SOE cancelled the changes, leaving it all as it is................?

[Jackula]

<cite>salle wrote:</cite><blockquote>...are you sure that assasin and swashy hate transfer doesn't stack? (both in coming update and in the past...) </blockquote>Currently, they overwrite each other so only one can transfer hate to the MT.  I cannot speak for the upcoming changes with certainty until they go live, but I do guess they will continue to not stack. In the past, we've had both of assassin and swashbuckler in the MT group with a paladin MT.  Exactly as Wilin pointed out, it was because the paladin can get a transfer from one and amends the other.  That does work, and pretty well too.  For a guardian though it does not. These hate changes feel like a nerf but I think we can break even or come out further ahead than before in the hate game depending on group set up.  Perhaps the reduction in percentages will allow the classes with hate skills to be given new skills when RoK comes out.  For example, the Assassin skill Murderous Design is level 53.  Many assassins do not have this skill at master level even if they do have the majority of their 60+ skills mastered.  The same goes for the Coercer skill Enraging Demeanor, which is a level 52 skill.  Will there be new version of these skills for them when RoK comes out?  I really do hope so.  If that hope becomes reality, MTs can look forward to more of our hate helping classes having mastered skills.  The 62+ skills are pretty easy to get masters of.  The ones from a tier lower though are difficult to obtain. T6 is a tier that doesn't get hunted in nearly as much as T7.  If you didn't get them while leveling then you don't have them at all unless you're lucky, have gone out of your way to do Courts raids and Poets Palace runs (over and over again), or spent far too much coin for them via the broker. Back on topic, how are the rest of you planning to set up your MT group?  Gonna run with just one hate transfer and one hate gain, and hold aggro with well timed Reinforcements and dps? 

[Jackula]

mafoe wrote: <blockquote>Are you guys quite short that there will be aggro changes? They were announced, but then I thought I heard that SOE cancelled the changes, leaving it all as it is................?</blockquote>They weren't put through in the last update but were postponed.  The changes are back up on Test server again, so I fully expect them to happen.

[Khurghan]

<cite>Jackula wrote:</cite><blockquote> Back on topic, how are the rest of you planning to set up your MT group?  Gonna run with just one hate transfer and one hate gain, and hold aggro with well timed Reinforcements and dps?  </blockquote> Depending on the nature of the fight is probably going to be best to drop the guard altogether from the MT group and go with a pally, based on experience they probably will be able to hold down 40k even after the changes.

[Skeptycal]

For a 3 healer setup, I always prefer: Guard, Inquisitor, Defiler, Warden, Coercer, Dirge. We dont have templars on freeport side pvp or I would prefer templar. I like all the other abilities that coercers bring to the group over an assassin with only hate and poison. I think the assassins do better in a melee dps group anyway. For quite a bit of most zones, however, I prefer a 2 healer MT group. As far as the preference most guilds have for defilers in MT group, they have the highest HP buffs and they have 2 group only proc buffs. Mystics best 'special' buffs are raid wide. It's a subtle difference, but it exists.

[Sir_Halbarad]

Our MT group looks like this Guardian Templar Defiler Dirge Assassin Fury/Warden/Coercer My personal favourite would have the Coercer as well - but we lost both of ours and the one levelling up his alt isn't raid ready yet <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[DjVacant]

<p>The EoF warlock end line ability Vacuous got a huge upgrade in the last update, changing from 15% to 25%.  For those who don't know, vacuous augments skills that increase (or decrease) hate by 25%...it's a groupwide buff.  So, a tanks taunts would add 25% more hate while a mage's deaggros would de-taunt 25% more hate.  Apparently (taken from a post in the warlock forum) it does not effect passive abilities such as moderate, harm link, troubadour song, etc...  but does also effect hate managing item procs...</p><p>I'm not saying that this will supplant any of the classes currently being talked about for hate management in the MT group, but it IS a very nice utility that was beefed up recently, and just wanted everyone to be aware.  It's still useful to augment all of the deaggros being used in the mage group, and in the event that there is no coercer on a raid, could be a nice addition to the MT group.</p>

[Senen74]

Ya, our MT grps been using our Warlocks for some time now even before the recent upgrade from 15 to 25% on Vacuous anyone serious about holding agro needs to swap out one of the weeker links and drop in a Warlock.